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xwb777
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Colombia CAA: Emirates could launch Bogota via Miami

Sun Dec 19, 2021 2:23 pm

At the sidelines of ICAO’s Air Service negotiation event that took place at in Bogota, Colombia, and according to the country’s CAA, Bogota could be linked to the UAE via Miami.

According to the negotiations, UAE carriers will be offered seven weekly flights, increasing to multiple daily after a year.



More can be found at: https://onemileatatime.com/news/emirate ... lq7PqGL_6I
 
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chunhimlai
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Re: Colombia CAA: Emirates could launch Bogota via Miami

Sun Dec 19, 2021 3:17 pm

why not serve DXB-BOG directly but via USA instead?
 
SilentEagleC
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Re: Colombia CAA: Emirates could launch Bogota via Miami

Sun Dec 19, 2021 3:29 pm

chunhimlai wrote:
why not serve DXB-BOG directly but via USA instead?


DXB-BOG might be possible in a 77L, but there is no plane able to to fly out of BOG to DXB with a decent payload. BOG is hot and high at 8000ft , ISA +15 and 3,8km runway.
 
chonetsao
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Re: Colombia CAA: Emirates could launch Bogota via Miami

Sun Dec 19, 2021 3:30 pm

It does not make sense to me. This will cause US3 concerns if EK can transport pax between MIA and Colombia. Also every passenger needs to meet US entry requirements how is this route viable?
 
JJ777
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Re: Colombia CAA: Emirates could launch Bogota via Miami

Sun Dec 19, 2021 3:32 pm

chunhimlai wrote:
why not serve DXB-BOG directly but via USA instead?


BOG is hot and high so probably the only way to make it work.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: Colombia CAA: Emirates could launch Bogota via Miami

Sun Dec 19, 2021 3:38 pm

GCM shows a DXB-BOG nonstop passing over most of North Africa. MIA is actually west of BOG and would require a backtrack. Funny how EK wants a piece of the biggest US-Colombia market instead of going for a stop in say CMN or a point in Southern Europe. The US3 will go ballistic if MIA is approved with traffic rights.
 
DLPMMM
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Re: Colombia CAA: Emirates could launch Bogota via Miami

Sun Dec 19, 2021 4:11 pm

OzarkD9S wrote:
GCM shows a DXB-BOG nonstop passing over most of North Africa. MIA is actually west of BOG and would require a backtrack. Funny how EK wants a piece of the biggest US-Colombia market instead of going for a stop in say CMN or a point in Southern Europe. The US3 will go ballistic if MIA is approved with traffic rights.


More ballistic than the EK JFK-MXP or SQ JFK-FRA?

AA would probably be the only airline in the USA that would care much.
 
x1234
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Re: Colombia CAA: Emirates could launch Bogota via Miami

Sun Dec 19, 2021 4:17 pm

The 2 largest markets in Latin America are GRU & MEX. They serve both but MEX is BCN. If they were smart they'd make DXB-MEX non-stop. TK flies IST-MEX-CUN-IST.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Colombia CAA: Emirates could launch Bogota via Miami

Sun Dec 19, 2021 5:06 pm

x1234 wrote:
The 2 largest markets in Latin America are GRU & MEX. They serve both but MEX is BCN. If they were smart they'd make DXB-MEX non-stop. TK flies IST-MEX-CUN-IST.


MEX is another hot/high airport. MEX-DXB wouldn't work n/s with any meaningful payload - not in A380s, 77Ls, 787-9s, nor A350s.

OzarkD9S wrote:
The US3 will go ballistic if MIA is approved with traffic rights.


Do the relevant Open Skies treaties already provide for traffic rights? The US3 find benefits in Open Skies treaties, too, not just competition.
 
DCA350
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Re: Colombia CAA: Emirates could launch Bogota via Miami

Sun Dec 19, 2021 5:10 pm

Stunning.. I'm surprised they chose the US over Panama.. But SF to Colombia is a huge market.. I regularly fly the route and most flights are Packed..
 
MAH4546
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Re: Colombia CAA: Emirates could launch Bogota via Miami

Sun Dec 19, 2021 5:42 pm

OzarkD9S wrote:
GCM shows a DXB-BOG nonstop passing over most of North Africa. MIA is actually west of BOG and would require a backtrack. Funny how EK wants a piece of the biggest US-Colombia market instead of going for a stop in say CMN or a point in Southern Europe. The US3 will go ballistic if MIA is approved with traffic rights.


The U.S. has open skies with both UAE and Colombia. Emirates doesn’t even need to seek permission from U.S. authorities to fly the route, it is permitted. Only need Colombian permission.

Currently EK planes spend about eight hours in the ground at Miami between flights so sending it somewhere might make sense.
 
maverick4002
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Re: Colombia CAA: Emirates could launch Bogota via Miami

Sun Dec 19, 2021 5:50 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
OzarkD9S wrote:
GCM shows a DXB-BOG nonstop passing over most of North Africa. MIA is actually west of BOG and would require a backtrack. Funny how EK wants a piece of the biggest US-Colombia market instead of going for a stop in say CMN or a point in Southern Europe. The US3 will go ballistic if MIA is approved with traffic rights.


The U.S. has open skies with both UAE and Colombia. Emirates doesn’t even need to seek permission from U.S. authorities to fly the route, it is permitted. Only need Colombian permission.

Currently EK planes spend about eight hours in the ground at Miami between flights so sending it somewhere might make sense.


Is eight hours enough to do that trip? MIA-BOG is what, about 3 hours? Thats six hours round trip and then you need time to unload/reload in Miami and Bogota. hmmm
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: Colombia CAA: Emirates could launch Bogota via Miami

Sun Dec 19, 2021 6:45 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
OzarkD9S wrote:

The U.S. has open skies with both UAE and Colombia. Emirates doesn’t even need to seek permission from U.S. authorities to fly the route, it is permitted. Only need Colombian permission


Does that include unlimited 5th freedoms as well? Open skies between the US and UAE but UAE-US-Third country?
 
Galwayman
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Re: Colombia CAA: Emirates could launch Bogota via Miami

Sun Dec 19, 2021 9:53 pm

Better off to go via BCN if possible or Malaga or Valencia . USA would be a nightmare
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: Colombia CAA: Emirates could launch Bogota via Miami

Sun Dec 19, 2021 10:06 pm

Galwayman wrote:
Better off to go via BCN if possible or Malaga or Valencia . USA would be a nightmare


I wound agree. I’m speculating here but my sense is that MIA is turning out to be weak for EK (just like FLL was) even though cruises are running again and they’re looking for any possible way to make the MIA route more viable. So perhaps adding a BOG tag will help?
 
trueblew
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Re: Colombia CAA: Emirates could launch Bogota via Miami

Sun Dec 19, 2021 10:14 pm

Wouldn't the lowest cost solution involve talking their partner JetBlue/B6 into flying BOG-MIA to feed the flight? They already have stations at both ends.
 
dcajet
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Re: Colombia CAA: Emirates could launch Bogota via Miami

Sun Dec 19, 2021 10:51 pm

x1234 wrote:
The 2 largest markets in Latin America are GRU & MEX. They serve both but MEX is BCN. If they were smart they'd make DXB-MEX non-stop. TK flies IST-MEX-CUN-IST.


"If they were smart"

Gotta love A.net. Where Emirates gets tips on how to run its business...
 
MAH4546
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Re: Colombia CAA: Emirates could launch Bogota via Miami

Sun Dec 19, 2021 11:13 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
Galwayman wrote:
Better off to go via BCN if possible or Malaga or Valencia . USA would be a nightmare


I wound agree. I’m speculating here but my sense is that MIA is turning out to be weak for EK (just like FLL was) even though cruises are running again and they’re looking for any possible way to make the MIA route more viable. So perhaps adding a BOG tag will help?


Your history of speculating also includes claiming Qatar Airways and Royal Air Maroc were doing horrible at Miami and would never resume service, and that Emirates would never begin service to Miami, so nobody is putting much weight on that speculation.

Miami to the Middle East/Africa region is a market that has done well through the pandemic. Turkish is double daily, Qatar is daily, El Al 5x weekly, Emirates 4x to Dubai, American 3x weekly to Tel Aviv and Royal Air Maroc twice a week to Casablanca.

Also if you even bothered reading the article (you did not), this isn't something Emirates is actively considering. Rather, the Colombian government is actively considering giving Emirates and Etihad the right to fly via Miami in hopes that it could entice them to start Bogota service.

Galwayman wrote:
Better off to go via BCN if possible or Malaga or Valencia . USA would be a nightmare


Transiting via the States is nowhere near as bad as people think and Latin American do it by the hundreds of thousands every year. And as to the visa question, any seasoned traveler from Colombia has a multi-year entry U.S. visa anyway, it's just as ubiquitous to a Colombian as a passport is.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Colombia CAA: Emirates could launch Bogota via Miami

Sun Dec 19, 2021 11:22 pm

They can pull a TK and go through HAV. Oil-rich POS wouldn’t be bad neither to connect it to the Gulf.
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: Colombia CAA: Emirates could launch Bogota via Miami

Sun Dec 19, 2021 11:33 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
Galwayman wrote:
Better off to go via BCN if possible or Malaga or Valencia . USA would be a nightmare


I wound agree. I’m speculating here but my sense is that MIA is turning out to be weak for EK (just like FLL was) even though cruises are running again and they’re looking for any possible way to make the MIA route more viable. So perhaps adding a BOG tag will help?


Your history of speculating also includes claiming Qatar Airways and Royal Air Maroc were doing horrible at Miami and would never resume service, and that Emirates would never begin service to Miami, so nobody is putting much weight on that speculation.

Miami to the Middle East/Africa region is a market that has done well through the pandemic. Turkish is double daily, Qatar is daily, El Al 5x weekly, Emirates 4x to Dubai, American 3x weekly to Tel Aviv and Royal Air Maroc twice a week to Casablanca.

Galwayman wrote:
Better off to go via BCN if possible or Malaga or Valencia . USA would be a nightmare


Transiting via the States is nowhere near as bad as people think and Latin American do it by the hundreds of thousands every year. And as to the visa question, any seasoned traveler from Colombia has a multi-year entry U.S. visa anyway, it's just as ubiquitous to a Colombian as a passport is.


Your feelings of my speculations aside (which is incorrectly stated. I never claimed QR would not return) - who (outside of points enthusiast) is flying EK MIA-Africa? Why would anyone fly all the way to Dubai to backtrack to Africa or even TLV when they could fly RAM non-stop to Africa or non-stop to TLV on AA or LY? EK is about India and SE Asia.

When other major US stations (like BOS) also have daily QR, just announced double daily TK, and just announced new non-stop DL to TLV also has daily EK flights and yet MIA can only sustain 4x weekly and now EK is exploring a BOG tag to keep the flight viable. Let’s just be honest - S Fla has never been a winner for EK and I give them credit for trying to get clever to make it work instead of dumping service again.
 
olli
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Re: Colombia CAA: Emirates could launch Bogota via Miami

Mon Dec 20, 2021 12:11 am

SilentEagleC wrote:
chunhimlai wrote:
why not serve DXB-BOG directly but via USA instead?


DXB-BOG might be possible in a 77L, but there is no plane able to to fly out of BOG to DXB with a decent payload. BOG is hot and high at 8000ft , ISA +15 and 3,8km runway.


BOG is not even close to hot,, but it is high for sure. The avergae temperature year round is 55-57 degrees.

Regards,
 
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Miami
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Re: Colombia CAA: Emirates could launch Bogota via Miami

Mon Dec 20, 2021 12:14 am

clrd4t8koff wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:

I wound agree. I’m speculating here but my sense is that MIA is turning out to be weak for EK (just like FLL was) even though cruises are running again and they’re looking for any possible way to make the MIA route more viable. So perhaps adding a BOG tag will help?


Your history of speculating also includes claiming Qatar Airways and Royal Air Maroc were doing horrible at Miami and would never resume service, and that Emirates would never begin service to Miami, so nobody is putting much weight on that speculation.

Miami to the Middle East/Africa region is a market that has done well through the pandemic. Turkish is double daily, Qatar is daily, El Al 5x weekly, Emirates 4x to Dubai, American 3x weekly to Tel Aviv and Royal Air Maroc twice a week to Casablanca.

Galwayman wrote:
Better off to go via BCN if possible or Malaga or Valencia . USA would be a nightmare


Transiting via the States is nowhere near as bad as people think and Latin American do it by the hundreds of thousands every year. And as to the visa question, any seasoned traveler from Colombia has a multi-year entry U.S. visa anyway, it's just as ubiquitous to a Colombian as a passport is.


Your feelings of my speculations aside (which is incorrectly stated. I never claimed QR would not return) - who (outside of points enthusiast) is flying EK MIA-Africa? Why would anyone fly all the way to Dubai to backtrack to Africa or even TLV when they could fly RAM non-stop to Africa or non-stop to TLV on AA or LY? EK is about India and SE Asia.

When other major US stations (like BOS) also have daily QR, just announced double daily TK, and just announced new non-stop DL to TLV also has daily EK flights and yet MIA can only sustain 4x weekly and now EK is exploring a BOG tag to keep the flight viable. Let’s just be honest - S Fla has never been a winner for EK and I give them credit for trying to get clever to make it work instead of dumping service again.



Who said it they’ll add BOG to their existing flight? DXB-MIA-DXB would be a sole flight and MIA would get a second flight from EK. Whether it’s just a stopover for fuel with no pax or fifth freedom has yet to be seen. But it’s not going to be a one flight like you assume.

Also, look at the post I shared and quoted you in. You’ll see MIA is doing very well. Although, I know you won’t take it easy and won’t believe it.
 
Brickell305
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Re: Colombia CAA: Emirates could launch Bogota via Miami

Mon Dec 20, 2021 12:50 am

TWA772LR wrote:
They can pull a TK and go through HAV. Oil-rich POS wouldn’t be bad neither to connect it to the Gulf.

While I personally would love a DXB-POS flight, that is a pie in the sky route that will (likely) never happen. I’d sooner expect EK to go somewhere touristy like PUJ if it were ever to begin flights to the Caribbean.
 
Brickell305
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Re: Colombia CAA: Emirates could launch Bogota via Miami

Mon Dec 20, 2021 12:52 am

clrd4t8koff wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:

I wound agree. I’m speculating here but my sense is that MIA is turning out to be weak for EK (just like FLL was) even though cruises are running again and they’re looking for any possible way to make the MIA route more viable. So perhaps adding a BOG tag will help?


Your history of speculating also includes claiming Qatar Airways and Royal Air Maroc were doing horrible at Miami and would never resume service, and that Emirates would never begin service to Miami, so nobody is putting much weight on that speculation.

Miami to the Middle East/Africa region is a market that has done well through the pandemic. Turkish is double daily, Qatar is daily, El Al 5x weekly, Emirates 4x to Dubai, American 3x weekly to Tel Aviv and Royal Air Maroc twice a week to Casablanca.

Galwayman wrote:
Better off to go via BCN if possible or Malaga or Valencia . USA would be a nightmare


Transiting via the States is nowhere near as bad as people think and Latin American do it by the hundreds of thousands every year. And as to the visa question, any seasoned traveler from Colombia has a multi-year entry U.S. visa anyway, it's just as ubiquitous to a Colombian as a passport is.


Your feelings of my speculations aside (which is incorrectly stated. I never claimed QR would not return) - who (outside of points enthusiast) is flying EK MIA-Africa? Why would anyone fly all the way to Dubai to backtrack to Africa or even TLV when they could fly RAM non-stop to Africa or non-stop to TLV on AA or LY? EK is about India and SE Asia.

When other major US stations (like BOS) also have daily QR, just announced double daily TK, and just announced new non-stop DL to TLV also has daily EK flights and yet MIA can only sustain 4x weekly and now EK is exploring a BOG tag to keep the flight viable. Let’s just be honest - S Fla has never been a winner for EK and I give them credit for trying to get clever to make it work instead of dumping service again.

What I think you’re not getting is that EK has not expressed at all that they are considering or exploring this. This is coming from the Colombian civil aviation authority.
 
Brickell305
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Re: Colombia CAA: Emirates could launch Bogota via Miami

Mon Dec 20, 2021 12:56 am

MAH4546 wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
Galwayman wrote:
Better off to go via BCN if possible or Malaga or Valencia . USA would be a nightmare


I wound agree. I’m speculating here but my sense is that MIA is turning out to be weak for EK (just like FLL was) even though cruises are running again and they’re looking for any possible way to make the MIA route more viable. So perhaps adding a BOG tag will help?


Your history of speculating also includes claiming Qatar Airways and Royal Air Maroc were doing horrible at Miami and would never resume service, and that Emirates would never begin service to Miami, so nobody is putting much weight on that speculation.

Miami to the Middle East/Africa region is a market that has done well through the pandemic. Turkish is double daily, Qatar is daily, El Al 5x weekly, Emirates 4x to Dubai, American 3x weekly to Tel Aviv and Royal Air Maroc twice a week to Casablanca.

Also if you even bothered reading the article (you did not), this isn't something Emirates is actively considering. Rather, the Colombian government is actively considering giving Emirates and Etihad the right to fly via Miami in hopes that it could entice them to start Bogota service.

Galwayman wrote:
Better off to go via BCN if possible or Malaga or Valencia . USA would be a nightmare


Transiting via the States is nowhere near as bad as people think and Latin American do it by the hundreds of thousands every year. And as to the visa question, any seasoned traveler from Colombia has a multi-year entry U.S. visa anyway, it's just as ubiquitous to a Colombian as a passport is.

Ah yes, the long-running “people have to climb Mt. Everest to get a US visa” myth strikes again. As you’ve rightly pointed out, most wealthy and middle class people in Latin America have 10 year US visas and renew them as they expire as they would with passports. People don’t seek out a visa each time they plan to visit or transit the US.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Colombia CAA: Emirates could launch Bogota via Miami

Mon Dec 20, 2021 12:57 am

Brickell305 wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
They can pull a TK and go through HAV. Oil-rich POS wouldn’t be bad neither to connect it to the Gulf.

While I personally would love a DXB-POS flight, that is a pie in the sky route that will (likely) never happen. I’d sooner expect EK to go somewhere touristy like PUJ if it were ever to begin flights to the Caribbean.

I was thinking more along the lines of DEX-BOG-POS-DXB to fight the hot-and-high status of BOG. Or maybe they're waiting for the better performance of the 778 to start BOG and similar destinations with performance inhibitors.
 
Brickell305
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Re: Colombia CAA: Emirates could launch Bogota via Miami

Mon Dec 20, 2021 1:03 am

TWA772LR wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
They can pull a TK and go through HAV. Oil-rich POS wouldn’t be bad neither to connect it to the Gulf.

While I personally would love a DXB-POS flight, that is a pie in the sky route that will (likely) never happen. I’d sooner expect EK to go somewhere touristy like PUJ if it were ever to begin flights to the Caribbean.

I was thinking more along the lines of DEX-BOG-POS-DXB to fight the hot-and-high status of BOG. Or maybe they're waiting for the better performance of the 778 to start BOG and similar destinations with performance inhibitors.

I thought that was what you meant but I still think that’s highly unlikely. The POS stop makes no sense to me. HAV, SDQ, PUJ all make more sense to me (and none make that much sense). There is very little demand from DXB or anywhere that it makes sense to connect through it to POS and on the POS end, there may be some demand to those places but it’s extremely small.
 
2travel2know2
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Re: Colombia CAA: Emirates could launch Bogota via Miami

Mon Dec 20, 2021 2:01 am

Open skies or not, any passenger who was to fly DXB-MIA-BOG or BOG-MIA-DXB from a country not in US visa waiver programme or Canada would be requiere to hold a valid visa just to remain inside the aircraft during the MIA stop.
If EK is after the TK BOG-Middle East/Asia traffic, then flying via a US airport is a very bad move.
DXB-BOG via European airports like AGP, VLC, BIO, FCO, MXP or Caribbean like PUJ, BGI, POS, CCS could even make more sense.
Brickell305 wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
They can pull a TK and go through HAV. Oil-rich POS wouldn’t be bad neither to connect it to the Gulf.

While I personally would love a DXB-POS flight, that is a pie in the sky route that will (likely) never happen. I’d sooner expect EK to go somewhere touristy like PUJ if it were ever to begin flights to the Caribbean.
I can't imagine EK flying to POS, however, TK adding POS for its CSS route (so TK HAV goes with MBJ or PUJ) or as a stop for a one-stop IST-LIM, yes..
 
acavpics
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Re: Colombia CAA: Emirates could launch Bogota via Miami

Mon Dec 20, 2021 2:25 am

So will people flying from BOG to DXB (vice versa) stayn the plane during the stop-over in MIA?
They will be stuck in there for an awfully long time (both legs + stop-over combined).
 
dcajet
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Re: Colombia CAA: Emirates could launch Bogota via Miami

Mon Dec 20, 2021 3:40 am

2travel2know2 wrote:
Open skies or not, any passenger who was to fly DXB-MIA-BOG or BOG-MIA-DXB from a country not in US visa waiver programme or Canada would be requiere to hold a valid visa just to remain inside the aircraft during the MIA stop.
If EK is after the TK BOG-Middle East/Asia traffic, then flying via a US airport is a very bad move.
DXB-BOG via European airports like AGP, VLC, BIO, FCO, MXP or Caribbean like PUJ, BGI, POS, CCS could even make more sense.


FYI, no one is allowed to remain inside an aircraft during an US transit stopover: everyone must be processed by US CBP, whether you have a visa or are traveling under the visa waiver program.
 
Gbass21
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Re: Colombia CAA: Emirates could launch Bogota via Miami

Mon Dec 20, 2021 3:51 am

Well, I could see one stop that may be controversial, but what about a DXB-CCS-BOG-CCS-DXB? I know that the situation in CCS is not great, but, CCS has a huge middle eastern and Chinese population, CCS-BOG market is HUGE and there is non legacy carrier currently operating that route, and finally, CCS also doesn't have too many connections nowadays. Flights to Istanbul with Turkish are always packed in order to connect to Europe or Asia. If price is right and there are no other options, people could make a stop in DXB to Europe/Asia from CCS. On the other hand, the main trouble that I could see in CCS is the infrastructure and security concerns. Could EK operate the route without losing Quality service in all of its premium classes?
Every point that I mention here, also applies to QR and DOH as is the same model of route.
 
pipeafcr
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Re: Colombia CAA: Emirates could launch Bogota via Miami

Mon Dec 20, 2021 4:57 am

It’s just an expansion of their cargo ops rather than passenger operations.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Colombia CAA: Emirates could launch Bogota via Miami

Mon Dec 20, 2021 5:05 pm

trueblew wrote:
Wouldn't the lowest cost solution involve talking their partner JetBlue/B6 into flying BOG-MIA to feed the flight?

No, but it'd be the easiest way to get a court-ordered injunction + possible criminal charges.

EK and B6 do not have antitrust immunity, so such coordination would be illegal.

Even if they did, this sorta thing still wouldn't happen, as the two don't have a j/v... they don't even have reciprocal FFP expenditure in most of their major markets.
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: Colombia CAA: Emirates could launch Bogota via Miami

Mon Dec 20, 2021 7:00 pm

Miami wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:

Your history of speculating also includes claiming Qatar Airways and Royal Air Maroc were doing horrible at Miami and would never resume service, and that Emirates would never begin service to Miami, so nobody is putting much weight on that speculation.

Miami to the Middle East/Africa region is a market that has done well through the pandemic. Turkish is double daily, Qatar is daily, El Al 5x weekly, Emirates 4x to Dubai, American 3x weekly to Tel Aviv and Royal Air Maroc twice a week to Casablanca.



Transiting via the States is nowhere near as bad as people think and Latin American do it by the hundreds of thousands every year. And as to the visa question, any seasoned traveler from Colombia has a multi-year entry U.S. visa anyway, it's just as ubiquitous to a Colombian as a passport is.


Your feelings of my speculations aside (which is incorrectly stated. I never claimed QR would not return) - who (outside of points enthusiast) is flying EK MIA-Africa? Why would anyone fly all the way to Dubai to backtrack to Africa or even TLV when they could fly RAM non-stop to Africa or non-stop to TLV on AA or LY? EK is about India and SE Asia.

When other major US stations (like BOS) also have daily QR, just announced double daily TK, and just announced new non-stop DL to TLV also has daily EK flights and yet MIA can only sustain 4x weekly and now EK is exploring a BOG tag to keep the flight viable. Let’s just be honest - S Fla has never been a winner for EK and I give them credit for trying to get clever to make it work instead of dumping service again.



Who said it they’ll add BOG to their existing flight? DXB-MIA-DXB would be a sole flight and MIA would get a second flight from EK. Whether it’s just a stopover for fuel with no pax or fifth freedom has yet to be seen. But it’s not going to be a one flight like you assume.

Also, look at the post I shared and quoted you in. You’ll see MIA is doing very well. Although, I know you won’t take it easy and won’t believe it.


A second flight from EK :rotfl: They can’t even make a daily flight work and now a second flight is the answer??
 
trueblew
Posts: 397
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:16 pm

Re: Colombia CAA: Emirates could launch Bogota via Miami

Mon Dec 20, 2021 9:23 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
trueblew wrote:
Wouldn't the lowest cost solution involve talking their partner JetBlue/B6 into flying BOG-MIA to feed the flight?

No, but it'd be the easiest way to get a court-ordered injunction + possible criminal charges.

EK and B6 do not have antitrust immunity, so such coordination would be illegal.

Even if they did, this sorta thing still wouldn't happen, as the two don't have a j/v... they don't even have reciprocal FFP expenditure in most of their major markets.


Uh oh, hopefully no one tells Delta's bureaucrats in Washington that's the reason B6 entered the DTW market. Wouldn't want to ruffle any feathers on Virginia Avenue.

BOG-MIA would be a natural route for B6 to enter given their market relevance and existing partnerships.
 
Kadish
Posts: 384
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:36 am

Re: Colombia CAA: Emirates could launch Bogota via Miami

Mon Dec 20, 2021 11:09 pm

Why dont they reach an agreement with IB? They go twice daily to BOG and 3 weekly to CLO
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 14599
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: Colombia CAA: Emirates could launch Bogota via Miami

Mon Dec 20, 2021 11:24 pm

trueblew wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
trueblew wrote:
Wouldn't the lowest cost solution involve talking their partner JetBlue/B6 into flying BOG-MIA to feed the flight?

No, but it'd be the easiest way to get a court-ordered injunction + possible criminal charges.

EK and B6 do not have antitrust immunity, so such coordination would be illegal.

Even if they did, this sorta thing still wouldn't happen, as the two don't have a j/v... they don't even have reciprocal FFP expenditure in most of their major markets.


Uh oh, hopefully no one tells Delta's bureaucrats in Washington that's the reason B6 entered the DTW market. Wouldn't want to ruffle any feathers on Virginia Avenue.

BOG-MIA would be a natural route for B6 to enter given their market relevance and existing partnerships.

As an advisory admonition: you are probably best served to not attempt sarcasm on issues that you (clearly) have little understanding thereof.....

B6 is free to enter what stateside market it chooses. What it cannot legally do, is enter at the behest of another carrier, with whom it has not been granted immunized authority to coordinate operations/schedules. Again, that is illegal.

Considering that the DOJ is already antagonizing B6 over aspects of the AA j/v (which HAS been immunized), the last thing on earth B6 wishes to do, is give them ammunition via its activity on a loose cooperative with an airline like EK.
 
Avianca
Posts: 5383
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

Re: Colombia CAA: Emirates could launch Bogota via Miami

Tue Dec 21, 2021 12:15 am

Brickell305 wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
While I personally would love a DXB-POS flight, that is a pie in the sky route that will (likely) never happen. I’d sooner expect EK to go somewhere touristy like PUJ if it were ever to begin flights to the Caribbean.

I was thinking more along the lines of DEX-BOG-POS-DXB to fight the hot-and-high status of BOG. Or maybe they're waiting for the better performance of the 778 to start BOG and similar destinations with performance inhibitors.

I thought that was what you meant but I still think that’s highly unlikely. The POS stop makes no sense to me. HAV, SDQ, PUJ all make more sense to me (and none make that much sense). There is very little demand from DXB or anywhere that it makes sense to connect through it to POS and on the POS end, there may be some demand to those places but it’s extremely small.


well - POS has still quite a big population with roots to India - could be actually an interesting routing for EK
 
2travel2know2
Posts: 3121
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:01 pm

Re: Colombia CAA: Emirates could launch Bogota via Miami

Tue Dec 21, 2021 12:49 am

Avianca wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
I was thinking more along the lines of DEX-BOG-POS-DXB to fight the hot-and-high status of BOG. Or maybe they're waiting for the better performance of the 778 to start BOG and similar destinations with performance inhibitors.

I thought that was what you meant but I still think that’s highly unlikely. The POS stop makes no sense to me. HAV, SDQ, PUJ all make more sense to me (and none make that much sense). There is very little demand from DXB or anywhere that it makes sense to connect through it to POS and on the POS end, there may be some demand to those places but it’s extremely small.


well - POS has still quite a big population with roots to India - could be actually an interesting routing for EK
POS' big population with roots in India has been on the island for generations now.
Caribbean a-netters would all agree their links now are stronger with the Trini diaspora in YYZ, NYC, MIA/FLL, LON and to a lesser extend, MCO, HOU, MAN/BHX and one of the major Canadian cities than with India, Pakistan and maybe Bangladesh too.
IMHO, Maybe, there could be some minimal oil/gas related traffic demand between Persian Gulf and POS, but that shouldn't be what weights on POS favour as EK stop candidate between DXB and BOG.
 
Brickell305
Posts: 1653
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: Colombia CAA: Emirates could launch Bogota via Miami

Tue Dec 21, 2021 1:12 am

Avianca wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
I was thinking more along the lines of DEX-BOG-POS-DXB to fight the hot-and-high status of BOG. Or maybe they're waiting for the better performance of the 778 to start BOG and similar destinations with performance inhibitors.

I thought that was what you meant but I still think that’s highly unlikely. The POS stop makes no sense to me. HAV, SDQ, PUJ all make more sense to me (and none make that much sense). There is very little demand from DXB or anywhere that it makes sense to connect through it to POS and on the POS end, there may be some demand to those places but it’s extremely small.


well - POS has still quite a big population with roots to India - could be actually an interesting routing for EK

There are many people of East Indian descent in Trinidad but they no longer have significant ties to the Indian subcontinent. There may be some people who choose to take a “once in a lifetime” trip to India to explore their heritage but it’s nothing that would consistently fill any flight. As has been pointed out, those Trinis of East Indian descent have much more significant ties to VFR markets in the US, Canada and the UK. They also have ties to other Caribbean islands. Heritage tourism to India isn’t going to sustain any flight to Trinidad.
 
Gbass21
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:01 pm

Re: Colombia CAA: Emirates could launch Bogota via Miami

Tue Dec 21, 2021 1:19 am

2travel2know2 wrote:
Avianca wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
I thought that was what you meant but I still think that’s highly unlikely. The POS stop makes no sense to me. HAV, SDQ, PUJ all make more sense to me (and none make that much sense). There is very little demand from DXB or anywhere that it makes sense to connect through it to POS and on the POS end, there may be some demand to those places but it’s extremely small.


well - POS has still quite a big population with roots to India - could be actually an interesting routing for EK
POS' big population with roots in India has been on the island for generations now.
Caribbean a-netters would all agree their links now are stronger with the Trini diaspora in YYZ, NYC, MIA/FLL, LON and to a lesser extend, MCO, HOU, MAN/BHX and one of the major Canadian cities than with India, Pakistan and maybe Bangladesh too.
IMHO, Maybe, there could be some minimal oil/gas related traffic demand between Persian Gulf and POS, but that shouldn't be what weights on POS favour as EK stop candidate between DXB and BOG.


It will be interesting to know in which airport they'd choose to stop, but again, I think CCS would be perfect, no competition in the market, huge asian communities in Venezuela, and no other way to get out of there (that's why Turkish is always packed). Other options could be PTY (it would be a very very long flight), Aruba or other Caribbean destinations?
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26735
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: Colombia CAA: Emirates could launch Bogota via Miami

Tue Dec 21, 2021 2:04 am

clrd4t8koff wrote:
Miami wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:

Your feelings of my speculations aside (which is incorrectly stated. I never claimed QR would not return) - who (outside of points enthusiast) is flying EK MIA-Africa? Why would anyone fly all the way to Dubai to backtrack to Africa or even TLV when they could fly RAM non-stop to Africa or non-stop to TLV on AA or LY? EK is about India and SE Asia.

When other major US stations (like BOS) also have daily QR, just announced double daily TK, and just announced new non-stop DL to TLV also has daily EK flights and yet MIA can only sustain 4x weekly and now EK is exploring a BOG tag to keep the flight viable. Let’s just be honest - S Fla has never been a winner for EK and I give them credit for trying to get clever to make it work instead of dumping service again.



Who said it they’ll add BOG to their existing flight? DXB-MIA-DXB would be a sole flight and MIA would get a second flight from EK. Whether it’s just a stopover for fuel with no pax or fifth freedom has yet to be seen. But it’s not going to be a one flight like you assume.

Also, look at the post I shared and quoted you in. You’ll see MIA is doing very well. Although, I know you won’t take it easy and won’t believe it.


A second flight from EK :rotfl: They can’t even make a daily flight work and now a second flight is the answer??


Always good for a laugh. Emirates has yet to attempt daily to Miami (much to your chagrin, it will happen), so a claim they can’t make it work is categorically false.
 
Brickell305
Posts: 1653
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: Colombia CAA: Emirates could launch Bogota via Miami

Tue Dec 21, 2021 2:06 am

Gbass21 wrote:
2travel2know2 wrote:
Avianca wrote:

well - POS has still quite a big population with roots to India - could be actually an interesting routing for EK
POS' big population with roots in India has been on the island for generations now.
Caribbean a-netters would all agree their links now are stronger with the Trini diaspora in YYZ, NYC, MIA/FLL, LON and to a lesser extend, MCO, HOU, MAN/BHX and one of the major Canadian cities than with India, Pakistan and maybe Bangladesh too.
IMHO, Maybe, there could be some minimal oil/gas related traffic demand between Persian Gulf and POS, but that shouldn't be what weights on POS favour as EK stop candidate between DXB and BOG.


It will be interesting to know in which airport they'd choose to stop, but again, I think CCS would be perfect, no competition in the market, huge asian communities in Venezuela, and no other way to get out of there (that's why Turkish is always packed). Other options could be PTY (it would be a very very long flight), Aruba or other Caribbean destinations?

EK tried to start DXB-PTY before and didn’t even bother to begin the flights because of low demand.
 
Airlinerdude
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 3:07 am

Re: Colombia CAA: Emirates could launch Bogota via Miami

Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:32 am

clrd4t8koff wrote:
Galwayman wrote:
Better off to go via BCN if possible or Malaga or Valencia . USA would be a nightmare


I wound agree. I’m speculating here but my sense is that MIA is turning out to be weak for EK (just like FLL was) even though cruises are running again and they’re looking for any possible way to make the MIA route more viable. So perhaps adding a BOG tag will help?


The route was already sustaining itself as a regularly scheduled preighter service since late 2020. Since then, freight prices have only increased and the flight does very well in the premium cabins now that it's operating as a passenger service. I could easily see this route becoming daily in 2022, which during regular times is consistent with other North American launches by EK in the past.

Brickell305 wrote:
What I think you’re not getting is that EK has not expressed at all that they are considering or exploring this. This is coming from the Colombian civil aviation authority.


You're exactly right. My memory escapes me when, but sometime in the last two years EK had actually applied for rights to operate BOG via MAD. I don't know whether these rights were ultimately granted, but it's sure a lot more logical than operating via MIA.
 
clrd4t8koff
Posts: 1845
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:57 am

Re: Colombia CAA: Emirates could launch Bogota via Miami

Tue Dec 21, 2021 3:42 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
Miami wrote:


Who said it they’ll add BOG to their existing flight? DXB-MIA-DXB would be a sole flight and MIA would get a second flight from EK. Whether it’s just a stopover for fuel with no pax or fifth freedom has yet to be seen. But it’s not going to be a one flight like you assume.

Also, look at the post I shared and quoted you in. You’ll see MIA is doing very well. Although, I know you won’t take it easy and won’t believe it.


A second flight from EK :rotfl: They can’t even make a daily flight work and now a second flight is the answer??


Always good for a laugh. Emirates has yet to attempt daily to Miami (much to your chagrin, it will happen), so a claim they can’t make it work is categorically false.


EK attempted daily to FLL where they had a connecting network via their partner B6 and quickly reduced frequency and gauge of plane, and this was during primetime (pre-COVID). FLL & MIA serve the same market - S Fla. so this whole “EK has yet to attempt daily to Miami” is what makes for a good laugh. EK knows full well the S Fla market isn’t strong for them and the only thing sustaining this route is cargo. The idea of adding BOG would also help.
 
2travel2know2
Posts: 3121
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:01 pm

Re: Colombia CAA: Emirates could launch Bogota via Miami

Tue Dec 21, 2021 11:43 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
Gbass21 wrote:
2travel2know2 wrote:
POS' big population with roots in India has been on the island for generations now.
Caribbean a-netters would all agree their links now are stronger with the Trini diaspora in YYZ, NYC, MIA/FLL, LON and to a lesser extend, MCO, HOU, MAN/BHX and one of the major Canadian cities than with India, Pakistan and maybe Bangladesh too.
IMHO, Maybe, there could be some minimal oil/gas related traffic demand between Persian Gulf and POS, but that shouldn't be what weights on POS favour as EK stop candidate between DXB and BOG.


It will be interesting to know in which airport they'd choose to stop, but again, I think CCS would be perfect, no competition in the market, huge asian communities in Venezuela, and no other way to get out of there (that's why Turkish is always packed). Other options could be PTY (it would be a very very long flight), Aruba or other Caribbean destinations?

EK tried to start DXB-PTY before and didn’t even bother to begin the flights because of low demand.
Rumour in PTY also was that CM and EK didn't agree on each airline's code-share responsibilities for EK cancelled flights passengers.
Who knows, if it that planned EK DXB-PTY had worked with a major European airport stop instead of non-stop?
IMHO, European one-stop DXB-BOG (or even DXB-PTY) has more chances of not failing than non-stop; something which can't be said for DXB-MIA.
DXB-MIA has to to be non-stop, making not lose money depends on frequency, aircraft and MIA arrival/departure times.
 
Avianca
Posts: 5383
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

Re: Colombia CAA: Emirates could launch Bogota via Miami

Wed Dec 22, 2021 9:40 am

Brickell305 wrote:
Gbass21 wrote:
2travel2know2 wrote:
POS' big population with roots in India has been on the island for generations now.
Caribbean a-netters would all agree their links now are stronger with the Trini diaspora in YYZ, NYC, MIA/FLL, LON and to a lesser extend, MCO, HOU, MAN/BHX and one of the major Canadian cities than with India, Pakistan and maybe Bangladesh too.
IMHO, Maybe, there could be some minimal oil/gas related traffic demand between Persian Gulf and POS, but that shouldn't be what weights on POS favour as EK stop candidate between DXB and BOG.


It will be interesting to know in which airport they'd choose to stop, but again, I think CCS would be perfect, no competition in the market, huge asian communities in Venezuela, and no other way to get out of there (that's why Turkish is always packed). Other options could be PTY (it would be a very very long flight), Aruba or other Caribbean destinations?

EK tried to start DXB-PTY before and didn’t even bother to begin the flights because of low demand.


yep I remember well as I was booked on the scheduled "DXB-PTY" flight....
 
RCS763AV
Posts: 3904
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:22 am

Re: Colombia CAA: Emirates could launch Bogota via Miami

Wed Dec 22, 2021 2:35 pm

This is a typical announcement from >erocivil where they agree on a bilateral relationship and immediately assume airlines are going to launch a service. Not only the US3 (especially AA) but local carriers will jump at EK launching BOG-MIA with local traffic rights. This is probably never going to happen beyond cargo flights.

EK should fly DXB-MXP/FCO-BOG. Italy is the largest O/D market from Europe to Colombia without non-stop service. Huge actually. It would be a complete smash.
 
2travel2know2
Posts: 3121
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:01 pm

Re: Colombia CAA: Emirates could launch Bogota via Miami

Wed Dec 22, 2021 3:07 pm

RCS763AV wrote:
This is a typical announcement from >erocivil where they agree on a bilateral relationship and immediately assume airlines are going to launch a service. Not only the US3 (especially AA) but local carriers will jump at EK launching BOG-MIA with local traffic rights. This is probably never going to happen beyond cargo flights.

EK should fly DXB-MXP/FCO-BOG. Italy is the largest O/D market from Europe to Colombia without non-stop service. Huge actually. It would be a complete smash.
One of the best comments here so far.
Even if EK routes DXB-BOG via BGY (Milano's other airport, yes EK does fly to secondary airports in several markets), the Italy-Colombia flight would likely be a success.
Until AV is to open FCO (or less likely, MXP).
 
factsonly
Posts: 3266
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:08 pm

Re: Colombia CAA: Emirates could launch Bogota via Miami

Wed Dec 22, 2021 3:59 pm

EK has been operating DXB-BOG-DXB 3x weekly for some years now, and DXB-UIO-DXB 4x weekly as well, however Cargo only:

DXB-ACC-GRU-BOG-BQN-AMS-DXB: 3x weekly
- EK9329 DXB 18.30 - ACC 19.45 B77W Cargo only
- EK9329 ACC 20.45 - GRU 23.45 B77W Cargo only
- EK9329 GRU 09.00 - BOG 12.10 B77W Cargo only
- EK9330 BOG 15.21 - BQN 18.58 B77W Cargo only
- EK9330 BQN 20.45 - AMS 10.15 B77W Cargo only
- EK9330 AMS 13.20 - DXB 22.39 B77W Cargo only

Different routings for DXB-UIO 4x weekly:
EK9919 / EK9920 DXB-ZAZ-MEX-UIO-BQN-AMS-DXB: B77L 1x weekly
EK9915 / EK 9916 DXB-AMS-ZAZ-MEX-UIO-BQN-AMS-DXB: B77L 1x weekly
EK9367 / EK9918 DXB-CPH-ORD-UIO-BQN-AMS-DXB: B77L 1x weekly
EK9961 / EK9914 DXB-AMS-ORD-UIO-BQN-AMS-DXB: B77L 1x weekly
- EK9367 DXB 18.40 - CPH 22.30 B77L Cargo only
- EK9367 CPH 00.01 - ORD 02.20 B77L Cargo only
- EK9367 ORD 04.20 - UIO 11.40 B77L Cargo only
- EK9918 UIO 13.40 - BQN 18.15 B77L Cargo only
- EK9918 BQN 19.45 - AMS 09.15 B77L Cargo only
- EK9918 AMS 12.15 - DXB 21.50 B77L Cargo only

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/ek9329
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/ek9915

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