Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
Kent350787
Posts: 2329
Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 12:06 am

Re: Qantas planning Chicago, Seattle

Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:57 pm

Sydscott wrote:
Kent350787 wrote:
yeogeo wrote:
Actually DFW is consistently more delay-prone vs O'Hare, according to the latest stats (January through September '21).
https://www.transtats.bts.gov/OT_Delay/ ... 1.asp?20=E
Since ORD has now completed the OMP (the runway reconfiguration plan), with all 8 runways operational, you can expect ORD will continue to show improvements in on-time stats.


The "magic" at O'Hare is its "connectability". Since you bring up New York City, O'Hare offers 50 daly flights into the three NYC a/p's. Neither DFW or LAX can match the sheer frequency of flights out of O'Hare to the NE, and that's more than just NYC, so I'd think that plays a role in QF's decision to come to O'Hare.
https://www.flychicago.com/SiteCollecti ... nstops.pdf

Also Qantas is certainly aware of the further transformation that will occur at ORD over the next decade: terminals that will allow international<>domestic transfers in-house for each alliance, so there's a commitment to improve the airport facilities which could come into their bullish thinking on O'Hare.
https://www.ord21.com/home/Pages/default.aspx


I wouldn't be surprised with a 3x weekly ORD flight by QF. The connections to the NE is a good point, but I do wonder whether there is:
1. sufficient links from Australia to that part of the world outside major cities to make those connections worthwhile
2. people from smaller ports in the US who'd fly to Australia if they could fly via ORD.

With family in Boston, we are outliers, although I do know a few people with university connections. Otherwise the east coast is mostly NYC with may a bit of FL thrown in for the more adventurous Aussies.


Realistically all of the major ports into the NE are covered via QF's Dallas Service. That was one of the major points of going there so that QF flyers could go 1 stop to LGA and DCA. So an ORD service isn't going to add major cities but it will add some minor ones along with more Eastern Canada Service.


No question on what it will add, but you'd expect ORD will still be largely O&D.

Given the Commonwealth link is still surprises me that there isn't a lot of travel between Australia and SE Canada.
 
steex
Posts: 1454
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 8:45 am

Re: Qantas planning Chicago, Seattle

Tue Dec 21, 2021 11:03 pm

We're talking at length about ORD's connectivity, but essentially ignoring connectivity on the Australia side. It's not quite as significant, but worth remembering that even a BNE-ORD service opens up Chicagoland itself to one-stop connections to huge swaths of Australia (or Oceania in general) for QF. Without non-stops to ORD, QF only offers one-stop Australia-Chicago travel to BNE/SYD/MEL. This would not only allow all-QF travel to SYD/MEL, but also open one-stop service to the likes of Perth and Adelaide - something NZ would offer over AKL assuming they resume ORD at some point.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 8418
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: Qantas planning Chicago, Seattle

Tue Dec 21, 2021 11:11 pm

AnsettB727 wrote:
I lived in Chicago 15 years ago. QF was mumbling about it way back then - it would have been the dream. Let's just wait an see - there are all kinds of 'interesting' QF routes being rumoured in this new post-pandemic future.


It was announced via LAX from MEL to start in 2003 on a 744, I can’t remember why it didn’t go ahead then, it was cancelled very close to launch.
 
LTEN11
Posts: 447
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:09 am

Re: Qantas planning Chicago, Seattle

Tue Dec 21, 2021 11:47 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
AnsettB727 wrote:
I lived in Chicago 15 years ago. QF was mumbling about it way back then - it would have been the dream. Let's just wait an see - there are all kinds of 'interesting' QF routes being rumoured in this new post-pandemic future.


It was announced via LAX from MEL to start in 2003 on a 744, I can’t remember why it didn’t go ahead then, it was cancelled very close to launch.


It was MEL/AKL/ORD and it was canned because of the GFC.
 
PhilMcCrackin
Posts: 410
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:54 pm

Re: Qantas planning Chicago, Seattle

Tue Dec 21, 2021 11:54 pm

Kent350787 wrote:
DFW was not-LAX to connect to other places in the US. Noone in Australia actually wants to go to Dallas!


For tourism purposes, maybe. I don't have any vested interest in Dallas, but given the size of their business community there, I'd imagine it probably does ok for direct business traffic.
 
evanb
Posts: 1081
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:26 pm

Re: Qantas planning Chicago, Seattle

Tue Dec 21, 2021 11:58 pm

Keep in mind that QF's US expansion (announced in 2019), which included the BNE-ORD route, was a de facto concession (not requirement though) to American and Australian regulators for approval of the QF-AA JV. Given how much has changed since then, it's not clear that the regulators would hold them to account if they don't start this.
 
myki
Posts: 430
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:43 am

Re: Qantas planning Chicago, Seattle

Wed Dec 22, 2021 3:38 am

LTEN11 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
AnsettB727 wrote:
I lived in Chicago 15 years ago. QF was mumbling about it way back then - it would have been the dream. Let's just wait an see - there are all kinds of 'interesting' QF routes being rumoured in this new post-pandemic future.


It was announced via LAX from MEL to start in 2003 on a 744, I can’t remember why it didn’t go ahead then, it was cancelled very close to launch.


It was MEL/AKL/ORD and it was canned because of the GFC.

Is my memory bad? Was there also an attempt with 2001 that was canned because of September 11, or perhaps it was just this 2003 attempt I am getting confused with.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 8418
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: Qantas planning Chicago, Seattle

Wed Dec 22, 2021 3:38 am

LTEN11 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
AnsettB727 wrote:
I lived in Chicago 15 years ago. QF was mumbling about it way back then - it would have been the dream. Let's just wait an see - there are all kinds of 'interesting' QF routes being rumoured in this new post-pandemic future.


It was announced via LAX from MEL to start in 2003 on a 744, I can’t remember why it didn’t go ahead then, it was cancelled very close to launch.


It was MEL/AKL/ORD and it was canned because of the GFC.


It was MEL-LAX-ORD in 2003. No way a 744ER was doing AKL-ORD with a viable load or ORD-AKL more the issue. QF were going to do AKL-DFW around the same time when they got the 744ER though a regular 744 could have done it to with less freight, was never officially announced
 
LTEN11
Posts: 447
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:09 am

Re: Qantas planning Chicago, Seattle

Wed Dec 22, 2021 5:57 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
LTEN11 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:

It was announced via LAX from MEL to start in 2003 on a 744, I can’t remember why it didn’t go ahead then, it was cancelled very close to launch.


It was MEL/AKL/ORD and it was canned because of the GFC.


It was MEL-LAX-ORD in 2003. No way a 744ER was doing AKL-ORD with a viable load or ORD-AKL more the issue. QF were going to do AKL-DFW around the same time when they got the 744ER though a regular 744 could have done it to with less freight, was never officially announced


Yet QF somehow managed to fly the 744ER SYD-DFW and DFW-BNE, which are both further that AKL-ORD :roll:
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 8418
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: Qantas planning Chicago, Seattle

Wed Dec 22, 2021 6:04 am

LTEN11 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
LTEN11 wrote:

It was MEL/AKL/ORD and it was canned because of the GFC.


It was MEL-LAX-ORD in 2003. No way a 744ER was doing AKL-ORD with a viable load or ORD-AKL more the issue. QF were going to do AKL-DFW around the same time when they got the 744ER though a regular 744 could have done it to with less freight, was never officially announced


Yet QF somehow managed to fly the 744ER SYD-DFW and DFW-BNE, which are both further that AKL-ORD :roll:


Cut the rolls. DFW-BNE was several years later and was a stretch. The point is QF planned DFW via AKL never officially announced other than when they purchased the 744ER they said it was a planned route. MEL-lAX-ORD was announced and canned weeks before the first flight in 2003, that possibly happened a second time a few years later I can't recall
 
Fuling
Posts: 446
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:41 am

Re: Qantas planning Chicago, Seattle

Wed Dec 22, 2021 6:08 am

LTEN11 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
LTEN11 wrote:

It was MEL/AKL/ORD and it was canned because of the GFC.


It was MEL-LAX-ORD in 2003. No way a 744ER was doing AKL-ORD with a viable load or ORD-AKL more the issue. QF were going to do AKL-DFW around the same time when they got the 744ER though a regular 744 could have done it to with less freight, was never officially announced


Yet QF somehow managed to fly the 744ER SYD-DFW and DFW-BNE, which are both further that AKL-ORD :roll:


And IIRC, ORD was announced just before 9/11 and later canned because of that. Happy if someone can confirm or deny that though.
 
LTEN11
Posts: 447
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:09 am

Re: Qantas planning Chicago, Seattle

Wed Dec 22, 2021 6:29 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
LTEN11 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:

It was MEL-LAX-ORD in 2003. No way a 744ER was doing AKL-ORD with a viable load or ORD-AKL more the issue. QF were going to do AKL-DFW around the same time when they got the 744ER though a regular 744 could have done it to with less freight, was never officially announced


Yet QF somehow managed to fly the 744ER SYD-DFW and DFW-BNE, which are both further that AKL-ORD :roll:


Cut the rolls. DFW-BNE was several years later and was a stretch. The point is QF planned DFW via AKL never officially announced other than when they purchased the 744ER they said it was a planned route. MEL-lAX-ORD was announced and canned weeks before the first flight in 2003, that possibly happened a second time a few years later I can't recall


You were the one who said that the 744ER outright couldn't do AKL-ORD. If you're going to emphatically claim something, make sure it's right first.
Last edited by LTEN11 on Wed Dec 22, 2021 6:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
casperCA
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:38 pm

Re: Qantas planning Chicago, Seattle

Wed Dec 22, 2021 6:39 am

Kent350787 wrote:
Sydscott wrote:
Kent350787 wrote:

I wouldn't be surprised with a 3x weekly ORD flight by QF. The connections to the NE is a good point, but I do wonder whether there is:
1. sufficient links from Australia to that part of the world outside major cities to make those connections worthwhile
2. people from smaller ports in the US who'd fly to Australia if they could fly via ORD.

With family in Boston, we are outliers, although I do know a few people with university connections. Otherwise the east coast is mostly NYC with may a bit of FL thrown in for the more adventurous Aussies.


Realistically all of the major ports into the NE are covered via QF's Dallas Service. That was one of the major points of going there so that QF flyers could go 1 stop to LGA and DCA. So an ORD service isn't going to add major cities but it will add some minor ones along with more Eastern Canada Service.


No question on what it will add, but you'd expect ORD will still be largely O&D.

Given the Commonwealth link is still surprises me that there isn't a lot of travel between Australia and SE Canada.


Pre-covid there was quite a bit of service between Canada and Australia. The dominate player was Air Canada. Nighty departures out of Vancouver on a flight that originated in Toronto. so YYZ-YVR-SYD, On some day also a flights into Melbourne and Brisbane. The second aircraft was usually connecting onto Newark from/to Vancouver.

QF was seasonable on the YVR-SYD.

Those looking to save money would fly through LAX or take one of the flights from Vancouver to New Zeeland and connect down under.

I have done the LAX connection once. Would not do it again. Being based out of YYJ I have also done international connections in SEA. These US airports are not setup for this. There is no international departure concourse similar to what you find in major Canadian airports. They can't even do a touchless baggage transfer at SEA or LAX. There is no expedited customs process for international connecting passengers. You end up in multiple long lines. The only reason you have Canadians doing international connections at a US airport is they don't know any better or all the other options are fully booked and this is the only option.

The expansion to Chicago or Seattle is going to have to be driven by domestic US traffic.
 
User avatar
RyanairGuru
Posts: 9079
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

Re: Qantas planning Chicago, Seattle

Wed Dec 22, 2021 7:25 am

LTEN11 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
LTEN11 wrote:

Yet QF somehow managed to fly the 744ER SYD-DFW and DFW-BNE, which are both further that AKL-ORD :roll:


Cut the rolls. DFW-BNE was several years later and was a stretch. The point is QF planned DFW via AKL never officially announced other than when they purchased the 744ER they said it was a planned route. MEL-lAX-ORD was announced and canned weeks before the first flight in 2003, that possibly happened a second time a few years later I can't recall


You were the one who said that the 744ER outright couldn't do AKL-ORD. If you're going to emphatically claim something, make sure it's right first.


Before criticising others for ‘emphatically’ claiming something, QF never planned AKL-ORD despite your claims that they did. Stop hiding behind semantics to avoid admitting that you’re wrong.

As it is, colour me sceptical that a 74E could make ORD-AKL with a viable load. DFW-BNE diverted fairly regularly, and that was with ~ 100 blocked seats. Note that was departing from an airport that doesn’t get ATC snafus unless a storm has rolled through, shortly entered relatively uncongested Mexican airspace, and then over the Pacific. Departing ORD would have more terminal and en-route ATC delays, potentially less optimal routings until you reach the West Coast etc. The two routes are not really apples-for-apples.
 
User avatar
qf2220
Posts: 2190
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:16 pm

Re: Qantas planning Chicago, Seattle

Wed Dec 22, 2021 8:10 am

LTEN11 wrote:
If QF announces a start date for ORD again, something terrible will happen again and it won't start. The first time QF announced MEL/AKL/ORD and the GFC happened, then it was BNE/ORD and we got Covid, Lord know's what would happen if they try again.

I suggest we all campaign against QF starting ORD. I'm getting to old to put up with this shit again.


Be optimistic. The saying is third time lucky no?!?!?!
 
LTEN11
Posts: 447
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:09 am

Re: Qantas planning Chicago, Seattle

Wed Dec 22, 2021 9:13 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
LTEN11 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:

Cut the rolls. DFW-BNE was several years later and was a stretch. The point is QF planned DFW via AKL never officially announced other than when they purchased the 744ER they said it was a planned route. MEL-lAX-ORD was announced and canned weeks before the first flight in 2003, that possibly happened a second time a few years later I can't recall


You were the one who said that the 744ER outright couldn't do AKL-ORD. If you're going to emphatically claim something, make sure it's right first.


Before criticising others for ‘emphatically’ claiming something, QF never planned AKL-ORD despite your claims that they did. Stop hiding behind semantics to avoid admitting that you’re wrong.

As it is, colour me sceptical that a 74E could make ORD-AKL with a viable load. DFW-BNE diverted fairly regularly, and that was with ~ 100 blocked seats. Note that was departing from an airport that doesn’t get ATC snafus unless a storm has rolled through, shortly entered relatively uncongested Mexican airspace, and then over the Pacific. Departing ORD would have more terminal and en-route ATC delays, potentially less optimal routings until you reach the West Coast etc. The two routes are not really apples-for-apples.


Despite efforts to find some information on it, I can't find any. I know it was proposed as i worked cargo at the time for a company owned by QF and we made plans to use it for express freight via AKL from SYD, but since I can't find the info to share, I'll wear it.

Are you saying DFW/BNE with 100 blocked seats was viable, but an ORD/AKL with a similar number of blocked seats wouldn't have been ?

What was MEL/LAX/ORD meant to operate with, in particular the LAX/ORD sector ?
 
LTEN11
Posts: 447
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:09 am

Re: Qantas planning Chicago, Seattle

Wed Dec 22, 2021 9:17 am

qf2220 wrote:
LTEN11 wrote:
If QF announces a start date for ORD again, something terrible will happen again and it won't start. The first time QF announced MEL/AKL/ORD and the GFC happened, then it was BNE/ORD and we got Covid, Lord know's what would happen if they try again.

I suggest we all campaign against QF starting ORD. I'm getting to old to put up with this shit again.


Be optimistic. The saying is third time lucky no?!?!?!


I hope you're right, I like that QF are trying new routes.

Joyce did say they are going to announce another new destination in the next couple of months, so that will be interesting too see what that is. My money is on ICN, lot's of talk of improved business links between Australia and South Korea lately, so it would fit.
 
kriskim
Posts: 492
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:44 am

Re: Qantas planning Chicago, Seattle

Wed Dec 22, 2021 10:40 am

LTEN11 wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
LTEN11 wrote:
If QF announces a start date for ORD again, something terrible will happen again and it won't start. The first time QF announced MEL/AKL/ORD and the GFC happened, then it was BNE/ORD and we got Covid, Lord know's what would happen if they try again.

I suggest we all campaign against QF starting ORD. I'm getting to old to put up with this shit again.


Be optimistic. The saying is third time lucky no?!?!?!


I hope you're right, I like that QF are trying new routes.

Joyce did say they are going to announce another new destination in the next couple of months, so that will be interesting too see what that is. My money is on ICN, lot's of talk of improved business links between Australia and South Korea lately, so it would fit.


From both MEL and SYD please! I would love to see QF fly to ICN!
 
User avatar
Mistral1
Posts: 90
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2016 3:15 pm

Re: Qantas planning Chicago, Seattle

Wed Dec 22, 2021 3:23 pm

Any news on restarting SCL?
 
User avatar
MatheusLPV
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: Qantas planning Chicago, Seattle

Wed Dec 22, 2021 7:59 pm

DCA350 wrote:
The 787 can make SYD from ORD? That's impressive.. I thought that would be a sunrise route..


The 787-9 can fly up to 8.300nm .
The SYD-ORD is 8.022nm(gc map) so technically it can do it but I don't know how it will works in terms of payload .
Just to compare the PER-LHR is 7.829nm(gcmap) , is there any payload restriction for the 787-9 in this route ?
 
User avatar
qf2220
Posts: 2190
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:16 pm

Re: Qantas planning Chicago, Seattle

Wed Dec 22, 2021 8:39 pm

LTEN11 wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
LTEN11 wrote:
If QF announces a start date for ORD again, something terrible will happen again and it won't start. The first time QF announced MEL/AKL/ORD and the GFC happened, then it was BNE/ORD and we got Covid, Lord know's what would happen if they try again.

I suggest we all campaign against QF starting ORD. I'm getting to old to put up with this shit again.


Be optimistic. The saying is third time lucky no?!?!?!


I hope you're right, I like that QF are trying new routes.

Joyce did say they are going to announce another new destination in the next couple of months, so that will be interesting too see what that is. My money is on ICN, lot's of talk of improved business links between Australia and South Korea lately, so it would fit.


Given KE and OZ have now merged the Korea market is now two direct carriers and so QF probably wont be able to codeshare with KE. So ICN on QF metal is much more likely than it was. I think business ties will have little to do with it tbh.
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 6143
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: Qantas planning Chicago, Seattle

Wed Dec 22, 2021 9:23 pm

Did QF buy any A350's yet? Would they have the legs to fly the SYD-ORD or even BNE-ORD? Otherwise, QF could do SYD-YVR-ORD with 5th Freedom Rights between YVR and ORD.
 
tullamarine
Posts: 3211
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: Qantas planning Chicago, Seattle

Wed Dec 22, 2021 9:44 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
Did QF buy any A350's yet? Would they have the legs to fly the SYD-ORD or even BNE-ORD? Otherwise, QF could do SYD-YVR-ORD with 5th Freedom Rights between YVR and ORD.

The planned but currently unordered Sunrise A350-1000 XLRs could do it but it is likely that these may be too big, initially at least.
 
tullamarine
Posts: 3211
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: Qantas planning Chicago, Seattle

Wed Dec 22, 2021 9:46 pm

MatheusLPV wrote:
DCA350 wrote:
The 787 can make SYD from ORD? That's impressive.. I thought that would be a sunrise route..


The 787-9 can fly up to 8.300nm .
The SYD-ORD is 8.022nm(gc map) so technically it can do it but I don't know how it will works in terms of payload .
Just to compare the PER-LHR is 7.829nm(gcmap) , is there any payload restriction for the 787-9 in this route ?

It is likely that the 789 could do SYD-ORD but westbound ORD-SYD would be a struggle with regular unscheduled fuel top ups required in places like Nadi or Noumea.
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 14605
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: Qantas planning Chicago, Seattle

Wed Dec 22, 2021 9:52 pm

MatheusLPV wrote:
DCA350 wrote:
The 787 can make SYD from ORD? That's impressive.. I thought that would be a sunrise route..

The 787-9 can fly up to 8.300nm .
The SYD-ORD is 8.022nm(gc map) so technically it can do it but I don't know how it will works in terms of payload .
Just to compare the PER-LHR is 7.829nm(gcmap) , is there any payload restriction for the 787-9 in this route ?

Not sure where you're getting that for 789 range, but it doesn't really matter, as such range isn't a static figure.

SYD-ORD wouldn't be much of a problem for a low-density 789. ORD-SYD would be very difficult to consistently pull off, for everything from winds to ATC restrictions.
 
User avatar
MrHMSH
Posts: 3029
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2013 7:32 pm

Re: Qantas planning Chicago, Seattle

Wed Dec 22, 2021 10:20 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
MatheusLPV wrote:
DCA350 wrote:
The 787 can make SYD from ORD? That's impressive.. I thought that would be a sunrise route..

The 787-9 can fly up to 8.300nm .
The SYD-ORD is 8.022nm(gc map) so technically it can do it but I don't know how it will works in terms of payload .
Just to compare the PER-LHR is 7.829nm(gcmap) , is there any payload restriction for the 787-9 in this route ?

Not sure where you're getting that for 789 range, but it doesn't really matter, as such range isn't a static figure.

SYD-ORD wouldn't be much of a problem for a low-density 789. ORD-SYD would be very difficult to consistently pull off, for everything from winds to ATC restrictions.


PER-LHR is right at the edge of the 789's capabilities, the low density helps it get there, and I believe QF's very stringent flight planning gets every last drop out of the ship (and maybe they have to leave passengers behind if it's a bad day?). Any further would be quite some undertaking.
 
Kent350787
Posts: 2329
Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 12:06 am

Re: Qantas planning Chicago, Seattle

Thu Dec 23, 2021 12:05 am

casperCA wrote:
Kent350787 wrote:
Sydscott wrote:

Realistically all of the major ports into the NE are covered via QF's Dallas Service. That was one of the major points of going there so that QF flyers could go 1 stop to LGA and DCA. So an ORD service isn't going to add major cities but it will add some minor ones along with more Eastern Canada Service.


No question on what it will add, but you'd expect ORD will still be largely O&D.

Given the Commonwealth link is still surprises me that there isn't a lot of travel between Australia and SE Canada.


Pre-covid there was quite a bit of service between Canada and Australia. The dominate player was Air Canada. Nighty departures out of Vancouver on a flight that originated in Toronto. so YYZ-YVR-SYD, On some day also a flights into Melbourne and Brisbane. The second aircraft was usually connecting onto Newark from/to Vancouver.

QF was seasonable on the YVR-SYD.

Those looking to save money would fly through LAX or take one of the flights from Vancouver to New Zeeland and connect down under.

I have done the LAX connection once. Would not do it again. Being based out of YYJ I have also done international connections in SEA. These US airports are not setup for this. There is no international departure concourse similar to what you find in major Canadian airports. They can't even do a touchless baggage transfer at SEA or LAX. There is no expedited customs process for international connecting passengers. You end up in multiple long lines. The only reason you have Canadians doing international connections at a US airport is they don't know any better or all the other options are fully booked and this is the only option.

The expansion to Chicago or Seattle is going to have to be driven by domestic US traffic.


The YVR flights have always seemed few to me, as its AC only in SYD once a day, plus a seasonal QF, compared to at least 6 direct from LAX to SYD. Perhaps ORD would see more tourism between Australia and Ontario/Quebec etc.
 
casperCA
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:38 pm

Re: Qantas planning Chicago, Seattle

Thu Dec 23, 2021 1:18 am

Kent350787 wrote:
casperCA wrote:
Kent350787 wrote:

No question on what it will add, but you'd expect ORD will still be largely O&D.

Given the Commonwealth link is still surprises me that there isn't a lot of travel between Australia and SE Canada.


Pre-covid there was quite a bit of service between Canada and Australia. The dominate player was Air Canada. Nighty departures out of Vancouver on a flight that originated in Toronto. so YYZ-YVR-SYD, On some day also a flights into Melbourne and Brisbane. The second aircraft was usually connecting onto Newark from/to Vancouver.

QF was seasonable on the YVR-SYD.

Those looking to save money would fly through LAX or take one of the flights from Vancouver to New Zeeland and connect down under.

I have done the LAX connection once. Would not do it again. Being based out of YYJ I have also done international connections in SEA. These US airports are not setup for this. There is no international departure concourse similar to what you find in major Canadian airports. They can't even do a touchless baggage transfer at SEA or LAX. There is no expedited customs process for international connecting passengers. You end up in multiple long lines. The only reason you have Canadians doing international connections at a US airport is they don't know any better or all the other options are fully booked and this is the only option.

The expansion to Chicago or Seattle is going to have to be driven by domestic US traffic.


The YVR flights have always seemed few to me, as its AC only in SYD once a day, plus a seasonal QF, compared to at least 6 direct from LAX to SYD. Perhaps ORD would see more tourism between Australia and Ontario/Quebec etc.


Not unexpected. Canada is about 1/10 the population of the US.

I think a QF flight to ORD would do well, but the connecting passengers to Canada are not going to be a major factor.
 
tullamarine
Posts: 3211
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: Qantas planning Chicago, Seattle

Thu Dec 23, 2021 1:40 am

casperCA wrote:
Kent350787 wrote:
casperCA wrote:

Pre-covid there was quite a bit of service between Canada and Australia. The dominate player was Air Canada. Nighty departures out of Vancouver on a flight that originated in Toronto. so YYZ-YVR-SYD, On some day also a flights into Melbourne and Brisbane. The second aircraft was usually connecting onto Newark from/to Vancouver.

QF was seasonable on the YVR-SYD.

Those looking to save money would fly through LAX or take one of the flights from Vancouver to New Zeeland and connect down under.

I have done the LAX connection once. Would not do it again. Being based out of YYJ I have also done international connections in SEA. These US airports are not setup for this. There is no international departure concourse similar to what you find in major Canadian airports. They can't even do a touchless baggage transfer at SEA or LAX. There is no expedited customs process for international connecting passengers. You end up in multiple long lines. The only reason you have Canadians doing international connections at a US airport is they don't know any better or all the other options are fully booked and this is the only option.

The expansion to Chicago or Seattle is going to have to be driven by domestic US traffic.

Connecting via a US port into Canada is a pain due to US ESTA requirements for transit pax. Heading to YYZ etc makes more sense if you go via YVR.

The YVR flights have always seemed few to me, as its AC only in SYD once a day, plus a seasonal QF, compared to at least 6 direct from LAX to SYD. Perhaps ORD would see more tourism between Australia and Ontario/Quebec etc.


Not unexpected. Canada is about 1/10 the population of the US.

I think a QF flight to ORD would do well, but the connecting passengers to Canada are not going to be a major factor.
 
steex
Posts: 1454
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 8:45 am

Re: Qantas planning Chicago, Seattle

Thu Dec 23, 2021 1:45 am

casperCA wrote:
Kent350787 wrote:
casperCA wrote:

Pre-covid there was quite a bit of service between Canada and Australia. The dominate player was Air Canada. Nighty departures out of Vancouver on a flight that originated in Toronto. so YYZ-YVR-SYD, On some day also a flights into Melbourne and Brisbane. The second aircraft was usually connecting onto Newark from/to Vancouver.

QF was seasonable on the YVR-SYD.

Those looking to save money would fly through LAX or take one of the flights from Vancouver to New Zeeland and connect down under.

I have done the LAX connection once. Would not do it again. Being based out of YYJ I have also done international connections in SEA. These US airports are not setup for this. There is no international departure concourse similar to what you find in major Canadian airports. They can't even do a touchless baggage transfer at SEA or LAX. There is no expedited customs process for international connecting passengers. You end up in multiple long lines. The only reason you have Canadians doing international connections at a US airport is they don't know any better or all the other options are fully booked and this is the only option.

The expansion to Chicago or Seattle is going to have to be driven by domestic US traffic.


The YVR flights have always seemed few to me, as its AC only in SYD once a day, plus a seasonal QF, compared to at least 6 direct from LAX to SYD. Perhaps ORD would see more tourism between Australia and Ontario/Quebec etc.


Not unexpected. Canada is about 1/10 the population of the US.

I think a QF flight to ORD would do well, but the connecting passengers to Canada are not going to be a major factor.


Indeed. It's easy to forget that the population of Canada is slightly less than the population of California. Combine that with the fact that LAX and SFO are the two closest major North American airports to Australia and it's no surprise that they are the center of gravity for service.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 8418
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: Qantas planning Chicago, Seattle

Thu Dec 23, 2021 9:49 am

LTEN11 wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
LTEN11 wrote:

You were the one who said that the 744ER outright couldn't do AKL-ORD. If you're going to emphatically claim something, make sure it's right first.


Before criticising others for ‘emphatically’ claiming something, QF never planned AKL-ORD despite your claims that they did. Stop hiding behind semantics to avoid admitting that you’re wrong.

As it is, colour me sceptical that a 74E could make ORD-AKL with a viable load. DFW-BNE diverted fairly regularly, and that was with ~ 100 blocked seats. Note that was departing from an airport that doesn’t get ATC snafus unless a storm has rolled through, shortly entered relatively uncongested Mexican airspace, and then over the Pacific. Departing ORD would have more terminal and en-route ATC delays, potentially less optimal routings until you reach the West Coast etc. The two routes are not really apples-for-apples.


Despite efforts to find some information on it, I can't find any. I know it was proposed as i worked cargo at the time for a company owned by QF and we made plans to use it for express freight via AKL from SYD, but since I can't find the info to share, I'll wear it.

Are you saying DFW/BNE with 100 blocked seats was viable, but an ORD/AKL with a similar number of blocked seats wouldn't have been ?

What was MEL/LAX/ORD meant to operate with, in particular the LAX/ORD sector ?



https://www.qantas.com/au/en/about-us/n ... -2002/2822

Original announcement of MEL-LAX-ORD.

https://www.qantas.com/au/en/about-us/n ... -2003/2895

Suspended 3 days before first flight due downturn caused by SARS.
 
LTEN11
Posts: 447
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:09 am

Re: Qantas planning Chicago, Seattle

Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:20 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
LTEN11 wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:

Before criticising others for ‘emphatically’ claiming something, QF never planned AKL-ORD despite your claims that they did. Stop hiding behind semantics to avoid admitting that you’re wrong.

As it is, colour me sceptical that a 74E could make ORD-AKL with a viable load. DFW-BNE diverted fairly regularly, and that was with ~ 100 blocked seats. Note that was departing from an airport that doesn’t get ATC snafus unless a storm has rolled through, shortly entered relatively uncongested Mexican airspace, and then over the Pacific. Departing ORD would have more terminal and en-route ATC delays, potentially less optimal routings until you reach the West Coast etc. The two routes are not really apples-for-apples.


Despite efforts to find some information on it, I can't find any. I know it was proposed as i worked cargo at the time for a company owned by QF and we made plans to use it for express freight via AKL from SYD, but since I can't find the info to share, I'll wear it.

Are you saying DFW/BNE with 100 blocked seats was viable, but an ORD/AKL with a similar number of blocked seats wouldn't have been ?

What was MEL/LAX/ORD meant to operate with, in particular the LAX/ORD sector ?



https://www.qantas.com/au/en/about-us/n ... -2002/2822

Original announcement of MEL-LAX-ORD.

https://www.qantas.com/au/en/about-us/n ... -2003/2895

Suspended 3 days before first flight due downturn caused by SARS.


Thanks for that.

SARS, now there's another virus from the past that stuffed things up.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos