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0newair0
Posts: 451
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:21 am

Re: AS, UA, DL and others struggle to crew flights due to Omicron

Fri Dec 24, 2021 8:25 pm

JohanTally wrote:
Isn't UA the most vaccinated major carrier in the US it seems odd that they would be disproportionately harmed by rising Omicron cases. Common Sense would make you think they would be the most insulated from Covid outbreaks.
The problem is that it seems the vaccines don't prevent you from getting omicron very well. They really only ensure that it's going to be a breeze to get through if/when you get omicron.

Nearly all of the people that I know that have gotten COVID in the past week were fully vaccinated and some of them boosted.
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 5302
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

Re: AS, UA, DL, LH and others struggle to crew flights due to Omnicron

Fri Dec 24, 2021 8:34 pm

Josh76040 wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
American Airlines is running a phenomenal operation compared to Delta, United, Jetblue, Alaska, Southwest. Just 1 cancellation today so far and no delays.

Paying the flight attendants 300% was very successful.

They're up to 8, but that's still pretty far off from United's 169 (9% of the schedule), Delta's 124 (6%), or JetBlue's 53 (5%) as of 1245Z.

In this case though, I'm not sure money is an appropriate driver when pilots or flight attendants may either have tested positive for coronavirus or be experiencing covid symptoms. Completion rate is great, but having healthy crew operating those flights is equally important.



Oh please. The 300 percent encourages flight attendants who would otherwise be off to pick up additional flying to make up for those who are sick.

Nobody is intentionally going to work sick.


Yes they are. Omicron symptoms are pretty low for most people. You can work. Its just reality people won't lose their 300% pay bump for a mild cold symptoms. Not saying they shouldn't but reality is most people will go not to lose all that money. Most took extra shifts just for this money they are not gonna lose it for the sniffles.

The ones who test positive will be forced to be sidelined. Totally different situation.
 
fsxfan38
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Re: AS, UA, DL and others struggle to crew flights due to Omicron

Fri Dec 24, 2021 8:49 pm

I'm going to be flying out of JFK to Orlando on the 4th of January flying with JetBlue, do you think I should expect my flight to be delayed or cancelled? What are my options? Would I be able to rebook for a later flight the same day or will I have to cancel my trip? I'm triple vaxxed and wear a mask everywhere so I'm not worried about covid.
 
reltney
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Re: AS, UA, DL, LH and others struggle to crew flights due to Omnicron

Fri Dec 24, 2021 8:53 pm

Airbuser wrote:
Josh76040 wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
They're up to 8, but that's still pretty far off from United's 169 (9% of the schedule), Delta's 124 (6%), or JetBlue's 53 (5%) as of 1245Z.

In this case though, I'm not sure money is an appropriate driver when pilots or flight attendants may either have tested positive for coronavirus or be experiencing covid symptoms. Completion rate is great, but having healthy crew operating those flights is equally important.



Oh please. The 300 percent encourages flight attendants who would otherwise be off to pick up additional flying to make up for those who are sick.

Nobody is intentionally going to work sick.


They are absolutely flying sick. Pilots too. If you call in sick any time during the month of December then you lose the overtime. You should hear the hacking, sneezing and coughing going on. “Must be my allergies “.



I don’t know what airline your talking about. Never heard of that. Not true at Delta and American.
 
tphuang
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Re: AS, UA, DL and others struggle to crew flights due to Omicron

Fri Dec 24, 2021 9:05 pm

fsxfan38 wrote:
I'm going to be flying out of JFK to Orlando on the 4th of January flying with JetBlue, do you think I should expect my flight to be delayed or cancelled? What are my options? Would I be able to rebook for a later flight the same day or will I have to cancel my trip? I'm triple vaxxed and wear a mask everywhere so I'm not worried about covid.


If you are flying JFK to Orlando, you shouldn't worry about it. They have 17 flights from JFK/LGA/EWR to MCO on that day. Worst case scenario is your flight getting cancelled and you get put on the next flight.
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: AS, UA, DL and others struggle to crew flights due to Omicron

Fri Dec 24, 2021 9:10 pm

The question has to be asked, how much of this just opportunistic economic cancellations, or calling out because you got stuck with the crappy bid, while the guy next to you is getting 300% for picking up the trip??

Skywest has canceled 60+, but that is just about an average day for them, they run so many flights. Republic seems to be running the full schedule
 
freakyrat
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Re: AS, UA, DL and others struggle to crew flights due to Omicron

Fri Dec 24, 2021 9:12 pm

As Doctors and Scientists get a handle on this Omicron variant which seems to be nothing more than a hybrid version of the common cold (which is also a coronavirus) caused by a merger of the two viruses, there will be most likely calls to modify the isolation and quarantine procedures for Aviation, Sports Leagues and the general public. People who have been vaccinated and boosted so far seem to be having no problem with Omicron also if they test positive they are either asymptomatic or have very mild syptoms. According to some doctors Omicron may be a blessing in disguise by achieving herd immunity and causing the virus to go endemic.
 
gdavis003
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Re: AS, UA, DL and others struggle to crew flights due to Omicron

Fri Dec 24, 2021 9:15 pm

FlyingElvii wrote:
The question has to be asked, how much of this just opportunistic economic cancellations, or calling out because you got stuck with the crappy bid, while the guy next to you is getting 300% for picking up the trip??

Skywest has canceled 60+, but that is just about an average day for them, they run so many flights. Republic seems to be running the full schedule


A good portion of those SkyWest cancellations can be attributed to weather at ASE, lots of OO cancellations/diversions for DL/UA/AA at ASE. Of course, that is not the majority of those 60 though
 
IFlyOff
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Re: AS, UA, DL and others struggle to crew flights due to Omicron

Fri Dec 24, 2021 9:15 pm

tphuang wrote:
fsxfan38 wrote:
I'm going to be flying out of JFK to Orlando on the 4th of January flying with JetBlue, do you think I should expect my flight to be delayed or cancelled? What are my options? Would I be able to rebook for a later flight the same day or will I have to cancel my trip? I'm triple vaxxed and wear a mask everywhere so I'm not worried about covid.


If you are flying JFK to Orlando, you shouldn't worry about it. They have 17 flights from JFK/LGA/EWR to MCO on that day. Worst case scenario is your flight getting cancelled and you get put on the next flight.


Easier said than done during holiday/post holiday travel. Usually the next flight(s) is/are already booked full. Next day or day after availability is usually the case for a confirmed seat.
 
freakyrat
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Re: AS, UA, DL and others struggle to crew flights due to Omicron

Fri Dec 24, 2021 9:21 pm

FlyingElvii wrote:

Skywest has canceled 60+, but that is just about an average day for them, they run so many flights. Republic seems to be running the full schedule


Just checked the United and Delta schedules out of SBN which most of the flights are operated by Skywest and they are all running on time today and tomorrow. So is ZW (United) OH (American CLT) and 9E (Delta ATL).
 
SoCalFlyer
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Re: AS, UA, DL, LH and others struggle to crew flights due to Omnicron

Fri Dec 24, 2021 9:26 pm

Josh76040 wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
American Airlines is running a phenomenal operation compared to Delta, United, Jetblue, Alaska, Southwest. Just 1 cancellation today so far and no delays.

Paying the flight attendants 300% was very successful.

They're up to 8, but that's still pretty far off from United's 169 (9% of the schedule), Delta's 124 (6%), or JetBlue's 53 (5%) as of 1245Z.

In this case though, I'm not sure money is an appropriate driver when pilots or flight attendants may either have tested positive for coronavirus or be experiencing covid symptoms. Completion rate is great, but having healthy crew operating those flights is equally important.



Oh please. The 300 percent encourages flight attendants who would otherwise be off to pick up additional flying to make up for those who are sick.

Nobody is intentionally going to work sick.


Yes they are. There are people who were off, and experiencing mild cold symptoms and feeling like they have a "slight" cold aren't getting tested. They are coming into work, because that 300% is a lot of money. As long as you don't test positive you can work, however no one says you have to test at all.
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: AS, UA, DL and others struggle to crew flights due to Omicron

Fri Dec 24, 2021 9:33 pm

Do sick/quarantined employees still get paid?
 
tphuang
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Re: AS, UA, DL and others struggle to crew flights due to Omicron

Fri Dec 24, 2021 9:45 pm

IFlyOff wrote:
tphuang wrote:
fsxfan38 wrote:
I'm going to be flying out of JFK to Orlando on the 4th of January flying with JetBlue, do you think I should expect my flight to be delayed or cancelled? What are my options? Would I be able to rebook for a later flight the same day or will I have to cancel my trip? I'm triple vaxxed and wear a mask everywhere so I'm not worried about covid.


If you are flying JFK to Orlando, you shouldn't worry about it. They have 17 flights from JFK/LGA/EWR to MCO on that day. Worst case scenario is your flight getting cancelled and you get put on the next flight.


Easier said than done during holiday/post holiday travel. Usually the next flight(s) is/are already booked full. Next day or day after availability is usually the case for a confirmed seat.


with the current no show rate out of NYC airports and last minute cancellations by other passengers, I don't think this will be an issue.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: AS, UA, DL and others struggle to crew flights due to Omicron

Fri Dec 24, 2021 9:48 pm

FlyingElvii wrote:
The question has to be asked, how much of this just opportunistic economic cancellations, or calling out because you got stuck with the crappy bid, while the guy next to you is getting 300% for picking up the trip??


If 300% money fixes AA's FA attendance problem, then:

1. People who weren't sick were calling in sick,

or

2. People who are sick decided now to go to work.
 
Clipper73
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Re: AS, UA, DL and others struggle to crew flights due to Omicron

Fri Dec 24, 2021 10:06 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
IFlyOff wrote:
The "overworked" is a relatively recent phenomena. During the worst of COVID, including last Christmas, most were not working/furloughed, airports were quiet and they had plenty of holiday time with their families.

I never understand airline employees, who accepted a job knowing it involved working holidays, weekends, etc. Some are so surprised that they need to work these periods and call out. This leaves the more conscientious employees working short and harder. Vicious cycle.

I think this year it’s so easy to call out sick cus you won’t get singled out or punished. You just blend in with everyone else that’s actually sick. Then on top of that others don’t want to work short so they call out sick too



I just know at my airline, since the middle of the summer the flight attendants have been unable to call out without punitive action from Friday to Monday. Mind you, We are in the middle of a pandemic. They were actually giving an incentive to work sick.

You don’t treat people like that.

Now they have their chance to call out with the cover of the covid surge…and they will…400 so far today


These airlines need to operate a realistic schedule for the resources they have. This has been an ongoing creating schedules that they never intend to operate. We see this with international flights 6 months out they are in the schedule and then 1 or 2 months out the flights are removed from the booking system.
 
Clipper73
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Re: AS, UA, DL and others struggle to crew flights due to Omicron

Fri Dec 24, 2021 10:08 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
FlyingElvii wrote:
The question has to be asked, how much of this just opportunistic economic cancellations, or calling out because you got stuck with the crappy bid, while the guy next to you is getting 300% for picking up the trip??


If 300% money fixes AA's FA attendance problem, then:

1. People who weren't sick were calling in sick,

or

2. People who are sick decided now to go to work.


No, it means people are working extra now when their employer makes it worth their while. If I am not getting what I think my time is worth, then I am not willing to take on extra hours.
 
TW870
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Re: AS, UA, DL and others struggle to crew flights due to Omicron

Fri Dec 24, 2021 10:22 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
FlyingElvii wrote:
The question has to be asked, how much of this just opportunistic economic cancellations, or calling out because you got stuck with the crappy bid, while the guy next to you is getting 300% for picking up the trip??


If 300% money fixes AA's FA attendance problem, then:

1. People who weren't sick were calling in sick,

or

2. People who are sick decided now to go to work.


Not true. If there is big incentive pay, it is usually hard to hold incentive pay trips if you are mid-seniority or junior. So there is big pent up demand for those trips in the bottom half of the seniority list that goes unmet if all goes according to plan. if senior people who hold the trips start calling off sick due to Covid, folks down the list on regular days off will scoop those trips out of open flying. If the ones who scooped them up subsequently call in sick, those further down scoop them up. I could never hold thanksgiving on when I was at United, and that was only at double pay. Trust me, at triple, there will be a lot of takers. Just go over to APC and look at the threads on "green slips" for Delta pilots. With big incentive pay, there are always takers.
 
DDR
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Re: AS, UA, DL and others struggle to crew flights due to Omicron

Fri Dec 24, 2021 10:45 pm

AA FA here. I promise everyone on this board that if I’m sick, you won’t find me on a plane. Bonus or no bonus. I don’t understand how people with flu, Covid or whatever can stand the ear pressure. Maybe I’m just sensitive I don’t know.

In hindsight, the airlines should have all ran reduced schedules so there would be enough manpower available to cover sick calls.
 
gwrudolph
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Re: AS, UA, DL and others struggle to crew flights due to Omicron

Fri Dec 24, 2021 11:03 pm

DDR wrote:
AA FA here. I promise everyone on this board that if I’m sick, you won’t find me on a plane. Bonus or no bonus. I don’t understand how people with flu, Covid or whatever can stand the ear pressure. Maybe I’m just sensitive I don’t know.

In hindsight, the airlines should have all ran reduced schedules so there would be enough manpower available to cover sick calls.


However, this latest wave came on rather suddenly in the last few weeks and schedules were committed at least a month+ ago. How would they have known to plan reduced schedules for a sudden severe wave that wasn’t anticipated?

Once you get this close in, the only option is proactive cancels, not reduced flight schedules, which it sounds like at least in the case of United is what they are doing.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: AS, UA, DL and others struggle to crew flights due to Omicron

Fri Dec 24, 2021 11:43 pm

Personal attacks are not welcome here. Please address the topic, not the user.

✈️ atcsundevil
 
IADFCO
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Re: AS, UA, DL and others struggle to crew flights due to Omicron

Sat Dec 25, 2021 12:01 am

gwrudolph wrote:
DDR wrote:
AA FA here. I promise everyone on this board that if I’m sick, you won’t find me on a plane. Bonus or no bonus. I don’t understand how people with flu, Covid or whatever can stand the ear pressure. Maybe I’m just sensitive I don’t know.

In hindsight, the airlines should have all ran reduced schedules so there would be enough manpower available to cover sick calls.


However, this latest wave came on rather suddenly in the last few weeks and schedules were committed at least a month+ ago. How would they have known to plan reduced schedules for a sudden severe wave that wasn’t anticipated?

Once you get this close in, the only option is proactive cancels, not reduced flight schedules, which it sounds like at least in the case of United is what they are doing.


Airlines are very efficient at adjusting ticket prices at the last minute. They have pioneered large scale operations research https://www.informs.org/Explore/History-of-O.R.-Excellence/Non-Academic-Institutions/American-Airlines.

There were reasons for concern about Omicron already at the end of November from South Africa, with the first epidemiological data from the UK on December 11 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SARS-CoV-2_Omicron_variant.

You can get covid cases projections from the Johns Hopkins web site, e.g., for the US: https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america?view=cumulative-deaths&tab=trend.

This was on top of the preexisting Delta variant, the expected increase in Covid cases for the winter season, and one of the busiest travel times of the year. More than enough to do "what if" simulations and prepare for a variety of scenarios. I'd say that knowing a week or 10 days in advance that your Christmas Eve flight has a high chance of being canceled could make a big difference for a lot of people.

It must be just a little too inconvenient for some airlines.
 
Josh76040
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Re: AS, UA, DL and others struggle to crew flights due to Omicron

Sat Dec 25, 2021 4:35 am

Clipper73 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
FlyingElvii wrote:
The question has to be asked, how much of this just opportunistic economic cancellations, or calling out because you got stuck with the crappy bid, while the guy next to you is getting 300% for picking up the trip??


If 300% money fixes AA's FA attendance problem, then:

1. People who weren't sick were calling in sick,

or

2. People who are sick decided now to go to work.


No, it means people are working extra now when their employer makes it worth their while. If I am not getting what I think my time is worth, then I am not willing to take on extra hours.


Exactly. Friends of mine at AA told me that they have been trying to get decent holiday pay for years. Holiday attendance was bad, in part, because people did not pick up the extra shifts on which the airline depends at peak times. The trend went towards not picking up trips during the peak times because there were no incentives, and if they did go to work, they’d get abused with numerous reroutes because of the staffing issues.
 
FlyHossD
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Re: AS, UA, DL and others struggle to crew flights due to Omicron

Sat Dec 25, 2021 4:37 am

IADFCO wrote, “
There were reasons for concern about Omicron already at the end of November from South Africa, with the first epidemiological data from the UK on December 11 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SARS-CoV- ... on_variant. ” While that’s correct, the December schedules were already set and many tickets purchased. IOW, it was too late to change and the full impact of the Omicron variant was yet to be realized.

My first airline job paid double for working on the major holidays and there was no issue getting crews to work. You’d even find some senior crew members taking advantage of the extra pay to help pay their credit card bills from purchasing Christmas gifts.
 
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zeke
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Re: AS, UA, DL and others struggle to crew flights due to Omicron

Sat Dec 25, 2021 1:23 pm

FlyHossD wrote:
IOW, it was too late to change and the full impact of the Omicron variant was yet to be realized.


I think it is not reasonable to use the data from a country with low vaccination rate like South Africa to try and project what impact it will have on a highly vaccinated community like NA. I think the scheduling and selling of those tickets was justified, what I do not know is justified if being tested positive means you cannot go to work. If someone is healthy, and fully vaccinated they should pose little risk to others as long as they take sensible precautions like wearing a mask. Someone can test positive and be totally asymptomatic, which is not uncommon for a vaccinated person.
 
Ferjer
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Re: AS, UA, DL and others struggle to crew flights due to Omicron

Sat Dec 25, 2021 2:28 pm

I think more than the omicron variant, some staff decided to stay home for the holidays ( I dont blame them) and airlines are using the omicron as an excuse.
 
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lightsaber
Moderator
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Re: AS, UA, DL and others struggle to crew flights due to Omicron

Sat Dec 25, 2021 2:31 pm

The cancelations are pretty substantial today (Christmas 2021):
https://flightaware.com/live/cancelled/
2,493 cancellations as I type this.
3,896 delayed flights.

The misery index will be high today... Sad, as it is Christmas. My heart goes out to those working today.

Lightsaber
 
Detroit313
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Re: AS, UA, DL and others struggle to crew flights due to Omicron

Sat Dec 25, 2021 3:59 pm

Another brutal day.
 
kalvado
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Re: AS, UA, DL and others struggle to crew flights due to Omicron

Sat Dec 25, 2021 4:01 pm

zeke wrote:
FlyHossD wrote:
IOW, it was too late to change and the full impact of the Omicron variant was yet to be realized.


I think it is not reasonable to use the data from a country with low vaccination rate like South Africa to try and project what impact it will have on a highly vaccinated community like NA. I think the scheduling and selling of those tickets was justified, what I do not know is justified if being tested positive means you cannot go to work. If someone is healthy, and fully vaccinated they should pose little risk to others as long as they take sensible precautions like wearing a mask. Someone can test positive and be totally asymptomatic, which is not uncommon for a vaccinated person.

It's a can of worms. What if there is more lung damage than expected and there are effects at the altitude? What if things start to degrade mid-trip? What if extra load of working while sick would make things worse?
Things may be not too bad on a personal level, but hospitals may say something different.
 
0newair0
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Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:21 am

Re: AS, UA, DL and others struggle to crew flights due to Omicron

Sat Dec 25, 2021 4:02 pm

Ferjer wrote:
I think more than the omicron variant, some staff decided to stay home for the holidays ( I dont blame them) and airlines are using the omicron as an excuse.
This happens every holiday, and actually every weekend on a smaller scale, and is not the major driver of the issues this week.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: AS, UA, DL and others struggle to crew flights due to Omicron

Sat Dec 25, 2021 4:45 pm

0newair0 wrote:
Ferjer wrote:
I think more than the omicron variant, some staff decided to stay home for the holidays ( I dont blame them) and airlines are using the omicron as an excuse.
This happens every holiday, and actually every weekend on a smaller scale, and is not the major driver of the issues this week.


So what is the driver?
 
0newair0
Posts: 451
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:21 am

Re: AS, UA, DL and others struggle to crew flights due to Omicron

Sat Dec 25, 2021 4:47 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
0newair0 wrote:
Ferjer wrote:
I think more than the omicron variant, some staff decided to stay home for the holidays ( I dont blame them) and airlines are using the omicron as an excuse.
This happens every holiday, and actually every weekend on a smaller scale, and is not the major driver of the issues this week.


So what is the driver?
COVID
 
mcg
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Re: AS, UA, DL and others struggle to crew flights due to Omicron

Sat Dec 25, 2021 4:51 pm

So here is something I noticed today: My son is flying DEN - SEA on AS, he's on a 7:00 am departure. AS canceled its mid-day flight DEN - SEA today, it was shown as cancelled yesterday so folks have had a reasonable period of time to readjust. What surprised me is that when I look at the flight status page for the early flight, it shows four empty seats. This is surprises me because I would expect many of the passengers on the canceled flight to rebook on the early flight, while I'm sure many did, not enough to fill the plane. I know, a sample of one, but it implies that AS had enough rebooking capacity to manage the cancellation.
 
Vicenza
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Re: AS, UA, DL and others struggle to crew flights due to Omicron

Sat Dec 25, 2021 5:30 pm

zeke wrote:
FlyHossD wrote:
IOW, it was too late to change and the full impact of the Omicron variant was yet to be realized.


I think it is not reasonable to use the data from a country with low vaccination rate like South Africa to try and project what impact it will have on a highly vaccinated community like NA. I think the scheduling and selling of those tickets was justified, what I do not know is justified if being tested positive means you cannot go to work. If someone is healthy, and fully vaccinated they should pose little risk to others as long as they take sensible precautions like wearing a mask. Someone can test positive and be totally asymptomatic, which is not uncommon for a vaccinated person.


Yes, of course they can be positive and be asymptomatic but they can easily infect many others, so being themselves being asymptomatic is of absolutely no relevance, nor is them being either healthy or fully vaccinated. Yet you are saying that they are justified in going to work???
 
travaz
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Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 1:03 am

Re: AS, UA, DL and others struggle to crew flights due to Omicron

Sat Dec 25, 2021 5:35 pm

Yesterday the local Phoenix press made a big deal about 30 cancelled flights out of PHX. I am by no means an Expert but with only 30 cancelled flight out of PHX I would say that is a pretty good day. According to PHX website 1200 Aircraft arrive and depart each day.
https://www.abc15.com/news/region-phoen ... sky-harbor
http://www.skyharbor.com/about/Information/AirportFacts
 
alasizon
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Re: AS, UA, DL and others struggle to crew flights due to Omicron

Sat Dec 25, 2021 5:50 pm

mcg wrote:
So here is something I noticed today: My son is flying DEN - SEA on AS, he's on a 7:00 am departure. AS canceled its mid-day flight DEN - SEA today, it was shown as cancelled yesterday so folks have had a reasonable period of time to readjust. What surprised me is that when I look at the flight status page for the early flight, it shows four empty seats. This is surprises me because I would expect many of the passengers on the canceled flight to rebook on the early flight, while I'm sure many did, not enough to fill the plane. I know, a sample of one, but it implies that AS had enough rebooking capacity to manage the cancellation.


Depends also on the connections - the connections may not have been available through SEA and instead they had to be rerouted on an OAL.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: AS, UA, DL and others struggle to crew flights due to Omicron

Sat Dec 25, 2021 5:53 pm

Or ran a second section.
 
Aliqiout
Posts: 625
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Re: AS, UA, DL and others struggle to crew flights due to Omicron

Sat Dec 25, 2021 5:54 pm

zeke wrote:
FlyHossD wrote:
IOW, it was too late to change and the full impact of the Omicron variant was yet to be realized.


I think it is not reasonable to use the data from a country with low vaccination rate like South Africa to try and project what impact it will have on a highly vaccinated community like NA. I think the scheduling and selling of those tickets was justified, what I do not know is justified if being tested positive means you cannot go to work. If someone is healthy, and fully vaccinated they should pose little risk to others as long as they take sensible precautions like wearing a mask. Someone can test positive and be totally asymptomatic, which is not uncommon for a vaccinated person.

You seem to be confusing danger to others with danger to oneself. Being vaccinated means there is a very low probablity of significant illness to yourself, but that swaftey does not extend to others who you pass it on to.
 
planecane
Posts: 1868
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:58 pm

Re: AS, UA, DL and others struggle to crew flights due to Omicron

Sat Dec 25, 2021 9:46 pm

Aliqiout wrote:
zeke wrote:
FlyHossD wrote:
IOW, it was too late to change and the full impact of the Omicron variant was yet to be realized.


I think it is not reasonable to use the data from a country with low vaccination rate like South Africa to try and project what impact it will have on a highly vaccinated community like NA. I think the scheduling and selling of those tickets was justified, what I do not know is justified if being tested positive means you cannot go to work. If someone is healthy, and fully vaccinated they should pose little risk to others as long as they take sensible precautions like wearing a mask. Someone can test positive and be totally asymptomatic, which is not uncommon for a vaccinated person.

You seem to be confusing danger to others with danger to oneself. Being vaccinated means there is a very low probablity of significant illness to yourself, but that swaftey does not extend to others who you pass it on to.

And those people could have/should have already been vaccinated to protect themselves.
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 17171
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: AS, UA, DL and others struggle to crew flights due to Omicron

Sat Dec 25, 2021 10:18 pm

Vicenza wrote:

Yes, of course they can be positive and be asymptomatic but they can easily infect many others, so being themselves being asymptomatic is of absolutely no relevance, nor is them being either healthy or fully vaccinated. Yet you are saying that they are justified in going to work???


Data I have seen suggests vaccinated people are also far less infectious.

Everyone in the US has had the opportunity to be vaccinated by now.
 
kalvado
Posts: 3663
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:29 am

Re: AS, UA, DL and others struggle to crew flights due to Omicron

Sat Dec 25, 2021 10:42 pm

zeke wrote:
Vicenza wrote:

Yes, of course they can be positive and be asymptomatic but they can easily infect many others, so being themselves being asymptomatic is of absolutely no relevance, nor is them being either healthy or fully vaccinated. Yet you are saying that they are justified in going to work???


Data I have seen suggests vaccinated people are also far less infectious.

Everyone in the US has had the opportunity to be vaccinated by now.

Uhm... Not really. Local newspaper reports "‘Striking’ increase in child hospitalizations as COVID surges"
And Xmas travel season likely involves more kids than average business-heavy Monday
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 17171
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: AS, UA, DL and others struggle to crew flights due to Omicron

Sat Dec 25, 2021 11:14 pm

kalvado wrote:
Uhm... Not really. Local newspaper reports "‘Striking’ increase in child hospitalizations as COVID surges"
And Xmas travel season likely involves more kids than average business-heavy Monday


That would be unvaccinated children ? Children 5 and above can be vaccinated.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 6160
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: AS, UA, DL and others struggle to crew flights due to Omicron

Sat Dec 25, 2021 11:20 pm

mcg wrote:
So here is something I noticed today: My son is flying DEN - SEA on AS, he's on a 7:00 am departure. AS canceled its mid-day flight DEN - SEA today, it was shown as cancelled yesterday so folks have had a reasonable period of time to readjust. What surprised me is that when I look at the flight status page for the early flight, it shows four empty seats. This is surprises me because I would expect many of the passengers on the canceled flight to rebook on the early flight, while I'm sure many did, not enough to fill the plane. I know, a sample of one, but it implies that AS had enough rebooking capacity to manage the cancellation.

People don’t like flying on Christmas morning. A lot of people open presents and then head out in the evening.
 
kalvado
Posts: 3663
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:29 am

Re: AS, UA, DL and others struggle to crew flights due to Omicron

Sat Dec 25, 2021 11:21 pm

zeke wrote:
kalvado wrote:
Uhm... Not really. Local newspaper reports "‘Striking’ increase in child hospitalizations as COVID surges"
And Xmas travel season likely involves more kids than average business-heavy Monday


That would be unvaccinated children ? Children 5 and above can be vaccinated.

Article says "under 18" without further clarification.
Anyway, the concern would be kids getting infected and infecting grandparents, who are also in at-risk group.
This is not specifically about air travel, though, more about holiday travel and gatherings in general. I guess we'll know by the end of January if it was bad or not.
 
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usxguy
Posts: 2044
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:28 pm

Re: AS, UA, DL and others struggle to crew flights due to Omicron

Sat Dec 25, 2021 11:57 pm

0newair0 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Listen we’ve been dealing with Covid for two years… I really think a lot of this is overworked and underpaid employees taking the holiday at home with their family.

If it is, good for them
Sure, people do call in sick when they are not sick but that happens on all holidays and is not the cause of what's going on now. COVID is absolutely raging through these airlines and positive tests prove that.

The good news is that the most severe symptom seems to be a mild fever. Problem is that these workers are now out for 10 days even when they feel 100% better on day 3.


Some of these rules by the WHO and CDC are based on a pre-inocculated period. Exposure to a new Covid-19 virus or a re-exposure should only make you ill for a day or two; so the 10 day period is a bit too long. I'm vax'd and know I've had it since, had a headcold and sniffles for just a day (my own initial Covid-19 was just a 3 day hangover).

So right now the challenge is with rapid tests, which are NOT very effective, is people are getting tested more and once they get a positive, even a false one, means they are now holed up for 10 days. A PCR Is more reliable than an antigen. I think we're going to see some damage with travel for a bit... from both travelers and airline staff who get a positive - be it false or not, means a 10 day quarantine.

Regarding the FlightAware cancels page, it seems its mostly all Chinese carriers.
 
User avatar
william
Posts: 3896
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 1999 1:31 pm

Re: AS, UA, DL and others struggle to crew flights due to Omicron

Sun Dec 26, 2021 12:32 am

lightsaber wrote:
The cancelations are pretty substantial today (Christmas 2021):
https://flightaware.com/live/cancelled/
2,493 cancellations as I type this.
3,896 delayed flights.

The misery index will be high today... Sad, as it is Christmas. My heart goes out to those working today.

Lightsaber


Not the way to return from grandma's house. Many hubs will be breaking out the cots.
 
LHUSA
Posts: 880
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:15 am

Re: AS, UA, DL and others struggle to crew flights due to Omicron

Sun Dec 26, 2021 12:38 am

william wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
The cancelations are pretty substantial today (Christmas 2021):
https://flightaware.com/live/cancelled/
2,493 cancellations as I type this.
3,896 delayed flights.

The misery index will be high today... Sad, as it is Christmas. My heart goes out to those working today.

Lightsaber


Not the way to return from grandma's house. Many hubs will be breaking out the cots.


Just returned form ORD. Things were slightly busy but quite normal and orderly. No lines at all at customer service in either United Terminal, also nothing of note before security. It seems the US carriers were able to re-accommodate most pax
Last edited by LHUSA on Sun Dec 26, 2021 12:39 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
gwrudolph
Posts: 603
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 3:46 pm

Re: AS, UA, DL and others struggle to crew flights due to Omicron

Sun Dec 26, 2021 12:38 am

usxguy wrote:
0newair0 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Listen we’ve been dealing with Covid for two years… I really think a lot of this is overworked and underpaid employees taking the holiday at home with their family.

If it is, good for them
Sure, people do call in sick when they are not sick but that happens on all holidays and is not the cause of what's going on now. COVID is absolutely raging through these airlines and positive tests prove that.

The good news is that the most severe symptom seems to be a mild fever. Problem is that these workers are now out for 10 days even when they feel 100% better on day 3.



Some of these rules by the WHO and CDC are based on a pre-inocculated period. Exposure to a new Covid-19 virus or a re-exposure should only make you ill for a day or two; so the 10 day period is a bit too long. I'm vax'd and know I've had it since, had a headcold and sniffles for just a day (my own initial Covid-19 was just a 3 day hangover).

So right now the challenge is with rapid tests, which are NOT very effective, is people are getting tested more and once they get a positive, even a false one, means they are now holed up for 10 days. A PCR Is more reliable than an antigen. I think we're going to see some damage with travel for a bit... from both travelers and airline staff who get a positive - be it false or not, means a 10 day quarantine.

Regarding the FlightAware cancels page, it seems its mostly all Chinese carriers.


Yes, it seems as though at least with United cancellatioms are less severe today than yesterday
 
32andBelow
Posts: 6160
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: AS, UA, DL and others struggle to crew flights due to Omicron

Sun Dec 26, 2021 12:44 am

What’s the damage looking like for tomorrow?
 
notgranola
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:24 pm

Re: AS, UA, DL and others struggle to crew flights due to Omicron

Sun Dec 26, 2021 1:07 am

I'm booked on a United flight from SFO (over to Boston) on Tuesday; should I expect anything out of the ordinary (delay, cancellation, etc)? How is SFO looking?
 
JohanTally
Posts: 676
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:44 am

Re: AS, UA, DL and others struggle to crew flights due to Omicron

Sun Dec 26, 2021 1:29 am

32andBelow wrote:
What’s the damage looking like for tomorrow?

So far DL and UA have cancelled 3% of their schedule but obviously this will go up after DL cancelled 15% today and UA 12%.

https://flightaware.com/live/cancelled/tomorrow

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