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alberchico
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First Chinese ARJ-21 delivered to Indonesian airline

Sun Dec 26, 2021 7:11 pm

http://www.smartaviation-apac.com/2021/ ... mac-arj21/

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202112/1243116.shtml

https://www.flightglobal.com/fleets/cal ... 84.article

On one hand the first delivery of this jet to a foreign airline should be a cause for celebration, but the fact that the Chinese Leasing company that placed the order owns a 49 % stake in the carrier kind of dampens it. I just can't see this plane attracting many orders from foreign carriers.
 
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Spacepope
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Re: First Chinese ARJ-21 delivered to Indonesian airline

Sun Dec 26, 2021 7:22 pm

alberchico wrote:
http://www.smartaviation-apac.com/2021/12/indonesias-transnusa-poised-to-receive-its-first-comac-arj21/

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202112/1243116.shtml

https://www.flightglobal.com/fleets/cal ... 84.article

On one hand the first delivery of this jet to a foreign airline should be a cause for celebration, but the fact that the Chinese Leasing company that placed the order owns a 49 % stake in the carrier kind of dampens it. I just can't see this plane attracting many orders from foreign carriers.


Especially since the already produced aircraft are getting shuttled into a freighter conversion program. Pretty early in their career to make that change.
 
SEU
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Re: First Chinese ARJ-21 delivered to Indonesian airline

Mon Dec 27, 2021 12:43 am

Yeah, its not huge news. It would be if it was a fully independent airline from another nation, but I highly doubt that will ever happen

Does anyone know how the ARJ-21 compares to other aircraft of similar size? I am sure its very poor vs a ERJ-190 or CRJ900 etc?
 
T4thH
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Re: First Chinese ARJ-21 delivered to Indonesian airline

Mon Dec 27, 2021 1:52 am

SEU wrote:
Yeah, its not huge news. It would be if it was a fully independent airline from another nation, but I highly doubt that will ever happen

Does anyone know how the ARJ-21 compares to other aircraft of similar size? I am sure its very poor vs a ERJ-190 or CRJ900 etc?

It is very easy, you can calculate it by yourself. There are now 60 delivered and in commercial service. Around one year ago, these were 50 in commercial service. The ARJ21 is flying commercial already since 2016. All AJR-21 have together now accumulated a little bit above 100.000 flight hours. If someone calculates with around 300 flight days/year.....being optimistic, let us say 120.000 accumulated flight hours now.....In average, they can only fly 2 or 3 hours a day, else, the little bit more than 100.000 flight hours can not be explained.

Does anyone know how the ARJ-21 compares to other aircraft of similar size? I am sure its very poor vs a ERJ-190 or CRJ900 etc?

-> very bad? It is a new build/developed but already outdated jet of a jet generation, airlines globally are now retiring or have already retired. And it seems to be more parked than in the air.
 
johns624
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Re: First Chinese ARJ-21 delivered to Indonesian airline

Mon Dec 27, 2021 2:33 am

Chinese plane + Indonesian airline = ???
 
NotDengXiaoping
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Re: First Chinese ARJ-21 delivered to Indonesian airline

Mon Dec 27, 2021 2:39 am

Its not a huge deal, and the plane itself seems outdated from what I've read, but you gotta start somewhere if you want to build up a civilian aviation industry. I think it'll take 10+ years and the introduction of new aircraft models (not the ARJ-21 but or even the C919) plus a decade of good reliability and safety records before Chinese airliners start to attract foreign customers. Either way, it's always good to see new planes out there.
 
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Aesma
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Re: First Chinese ARJ-21 delivered to Indonesian airline

Mon Dec 27, 2021 2:44 am

Even Chinese airlines don't want it. Would you fly on one ?
 
SEU
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Re: First Chinese ARJ-21 delivered to Indonesian airline

Mon Dec 27, 2021 3:24 am

Aesma wrote:
Even Chinese airlines don't want it. Would you fly on one ?


Yeah, I'd actually try and fly one if I could, just to tick it off.

It's technically safer than the 737MAX and lots of modern jets by statistics
 
SEU
Posts: 441
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Re: First Chinese ARJ-21 delivered to Indonesian airline

Mon Dec 27, 2021 3:26 am

T4thH wrote:
SEU wrote:
Yeah, its not huge news. It would be if it was a fully independent airline from another nation, but I highly doubt that will ever happen

Does anyone know how the ARJ-21 compares to other aircraft of similar size? I am sure its very poor vs a ERJ-190 or CRJ900 etc?

It is very easy, you can calculate it by yourself. There are now 60 delivered and in commercial service. Around one year ago, these were 50 in commercial service. The ARJ21 is flying commercial already since 2016. All AJR-21 have together now accumulated a little bit above 100.000 flight hours. If someone calculates with around 300 flight days/year.....being optimistic, let us say 120.000 accumulated flight hours now.....In average, they can only fly 2 or 3 hours a day, else, the little bit more than 100.000 flight hours can not be explained.

Does anyone know how the ARJ-21 compares to other aircraft of similar size? I am sure its very poor vs a ERJ-190 or CRJ900 etc?

-> very bad? It is a new build/developed but already outdated jet of a jet generation, airlines globally are now retiring or have already retired. And it seems to be more parked than in the air.


Yeah that is poor isnt it
 
XRadar98
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Joined: Sun May 01, 2016 4:23 am

Re: First Chinese ARJ-21 delivered to Indonesian airline

Mon Dec 27, 2021 3:50 am

Aesma wrote:
Even Chinese airlines don't want it. Would you fly on one ?


I dunno, what’s the safety record?
 
crownvic
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Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:16 pm

Re: First Chinese ARJ-21 delivered to Indonesian airline

Mon Dec 27, 2021 3:57 am

Aesma wrote:
Even Chinese airlines don't want it. Would you fly on one ?


Absolutely, because I would fly on anything unusual. Would I operate them as an airline? Probably not.
 
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Aesma
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Re: First Chinese ARJ-21 delivered to Indonesian airline

Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:16 am

XRadar98 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Even Chinese airlines don't want it. Would you fly on one ?


I dunno, what’s the safety record?


The safety record is that it flies so little that you can't really make good stats out of the flying that it does.
 
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hongkongflyer
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Re: First Chinese ARJ-21 delivered to Indonesian airline

Mon Dec 27, 2021 7:31 am

Aesma wrote:
XRadar98 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Even Chinese airlines don't want it. Would you fly on one ?


I dunno, what’s the safety record?


The safety record is that it flies so little that you can't really make good stats out of the flying that it does.


The Max also flies so little when the two accidents happened with hundreds of death.
 
T4thH
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Re: First Chinese ARJ-21 delivered to Indonesian airline

Mon Dec 27, 2021 11:44 am

hongkongflyer wrote:
Aesma wrote:
XRadar98 wrote:

I dunno, what’s the safety record?


The safety record is that it flies so little that you can't really make good stats out of the flying that it does.


The Max also flies so little when the two accidents happened with hundreds of death.
Sorry, but this is not correct. There were already several hundred delivered and these were utilize by the airlines as regular for a small body, So these were on duty from 6 am to 10/11 pm and more in the air then parked at the gateways. So hundreds of thousands of flight hours were accumulated in shortest time and not like for the ARJ-21, just a little bit above 100.000 for all planes since 2016. So an issue with one crash all 1.000000 flight hours, for as example 300 MAX with 300 flight days per year and 8 h flight time per day, we will see in average a crash all 1.5 years.

For the ARJ 21, the total low numbers and flight times in best case in average of less then 3 h per day....we will see no crash in the next 20 years.

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