I have an acquaintance who sent this information and questions whether he did the right thing...

"I just got back last night on a flight from LHR to SFO on a UA 787-9 and I caused a 1 hour and fifteen-minute delay. As I settled myself on my window seat, I looked out and saw something on the wing that looked like the skin towards the leading edge about 7 feet from the tip was opened and looked like metal strips protruding on a badly opened can using a handheld can opener. Anyway, I called one cabin crew and he looked out and said "hmmm". And said he'll contact the cockpit. Towards the last few minutes of embarkation, the Captain announced that we will be sitting for a while for a minor repair. The repair crew came and started the repair, I saw the repair guy take out like 6 feet of what looked like metal strips/foil which I learned from the Captain as he made the announcement that the repairs were done were "Speed Tapes". A couple of people around my area were pissed at me for the delay."

I think he did the right thing!

Surprised this wasn't caught on the walkaround. Shameful. Pilots should be reported.

Absolutely did the right thing! Ask those passengers if they'd rather be an hour 15 late to where they're going, or dead.

BoeingG wrote:

Surprised this wasn't caught on the walkaround. Shameful. Pilots should be reported.

I don't think walkaround would caught that if its on top of the wing surface. Which is away from eyesight if you're doing walkaround.
Especially if the passenger easily caught that from seating view.

Nonetheless, to OP, absolutely he did the right thing.
1hr 15 mins is nothing compare to a diversion or any issues that "piece of object" may cause.
If it is a solid metal strip rather than a speed tape, it may become a FOD. (Think the Concorde tragedy)

Absolutely did the right thing. I'd have done exactly the same and not given an F* what the pax thought. Safety is priority even if it may not have been a "critical issue". Since accidents are a chain of events, if something unfortunately had happened later on the flight, even though said strips may not have been the cause they may have contributed to an incident. In fact, if I had been on the flight I'd have bought him a beer.

Absolutely correct and well done. But it does beg the question - after walk-around has been completed - is there not a quick look at the wing upper surfaces from inside the cabin? Assume not as have never seen. Maybe a wise addition to the checklist? A few years back on an FR738 at Pescara, we had all boarded and I noticed one of the upper pylon latches wasn't quite flush and told the FA. Saw a chap a few moments later on the back of a truck open and reseat said latch.

Any item on a reputable airline that is speed-taped is recorded in aircraft records and is tracked for re-inspection until scheduled for permanent repair at a planned maintenance check. Most are re-inspected at intervals of 1-3 days and re-taped as needed. It's likely this item would have been addressed and re-taped on the next overnight or soon after. The important thing to know is that nothing with speed tape applied involves safety of flight items or systems.

Speed tape can degrade over time/flights (even if it is within the allowable range for a deferral of the underlying issue) and is regularly replaced. Likely the case here, and not a safety of flight issue of the same order as pax noticing an improper takeoff configuration, or snow/ice contamination as the aircraft takes to the runway. But, as the adage goes, "if you see something, say something!"

Best case scenario, someone can come out and decide it's a non-event, and away you go. I'll also add that the 787, with its composite wing, is notorious for minor defects and repairs requiring lots of speed tape.

Did good, if it wasn't a problem, the mechanic would have skipped the speed tape. Not taped, a panel could have come off, greatly increasing the repair.

If the little things are taken care of, it is much less likely big things happen.

Some passengers will grumble that they have nothing to grumble about. Think about all the things you have heard passengers b****and moan about - why would a safety issue be anything other than a form of torture to them?

Many years ago I was on an ExpressJet flight waiting to take off for SAN from BFL. A circuit wasn’t setting properly (or something along those lines) and we faced a delay while the flight crew worked on it. Several passengers belly-ached incessantly, wondering “why can’t we go without it?” I bit my tongue and restrained from knocking someone’s block off, but I thought, “how stupid can people really be?” Eventually we took off, and everything was fine. But messing around with safety? NEVER hesitate to speak up!

BoeingG wrote:

Surprised this wasn't caught on the walkaround. Shameful. Pilots should be reported.

Oh please. Depending on the angle/situation/various other factors, it's easy for a human to miss that from the ground, no matter how thorough the walk around was. As I'm sure you know, a punitive approach to safety is not a good thing. That's why there are ASAP programs; the pilot is likely to have already written it up to account for the delay at the very least.

Your friend absolutely did the right thing - without question.

He definitely did the right thing- better late than dead, I always say!

Definitely did the right thing. I hope he got a free flight out of it.

panam330 wrote:

BoeingG wrote:

Surprised this wasn't caught on the walkaround. Shameful. Pilots should be reported.

Oh please. Depending on the angle/situation/various other factors, it's easy for a human to miss that from the ground, no matter how thorough the walk around was. As I'm sure you know, a punitive approach to safety is not a good thing. That's why there are ASAP programs; the pilot is likely to have already written it up to account for the delay at the very least.

Your friend absolutely did the right thing - without question.

"a punitive approach to safety is not a good thing."

If lives are jeopardized then it is. Negligence ought not be sanctioned. Pilots should be reprimanded forthwith.

Of course he did the right thing! It was drilled into us at flight attendant training, always contact the cockpit, even in sterile times, if you see something strange.

BoeingG wrote:

panam330 wrote:

BoeingG wrote:

Surprised this wasn't caught on the walkaround. Shameful. Pilots should be reported.

Oh please. Depending on the angle/situation/various other factors, it's easy for a human to miss that from the ground, no matter how thorough the walk around was. As I'm sure you know, a punitive approach to safety is not a good thing. That's why there are ASAP programs; the pilot is likely to have already written it up to account for the delay at the very least.

Your friend absolutely did the right thing - without question.

"a punitive approach to safety is not a good thing."

If lives are jeopardized then it is. Negligence ought not be sanctioned. Pilots should be reprimanded forthwith.

Yeah…that’s not how it works.

If it was negligible damage, they wouldn't have stopped the flight.

Or maybe they could have, but since they were on the ground, repairs were done anyways. We call that eliminating unnecessary risk.

An hour delay on a trip between LHR and SFO is also relatively negligible (minus connections..... and crew time....).

FYI the flight made up time enroute and arrived just 40 mins late. It occured last week..

BoeingG wrote:

panam330 wrote:

BoeingG wrote:

Surprised this wasn't caught on the walkaround. Shameful. Pilots should be reported.

Oh please. Depending on the angle/situation/various other factors, it's easy for a human to miss that from the ground, no matter how thorough the walk around was. As I'm sure you know, a punitive approach to safety is not a good thing. That's why there are ASAP programs; the pilot is likely to have already written it up to account for the delay at the very least.

Your friend absolutely did the right thing - without question.

"a punitive approach to safety is not a good thing."

If lives are jeopardized then it is. Negligence ought not be sanctioned. Pilots should be reprimanded forthwith.

Ok dude. Have a nice day.

BoeingG wrote:

If lives are jeopardized then it is. Negligence ought not be sanctioned. Pilots should be reprimanded forthwith.

Put it back in the deck.

CarlosSi wrote:

If it was negligible damage, they wouldn't have stopped the flight.

Or maybe they could have, but since they were on the ground, repairs were done anyways.

They absolutely would have, yes. If you did not know one way or the other, everything stops. That has no bearing on whether it was actually dangerous or not.
Most gate calls work out this way —hence MEL/CDL being a thing. But MX does not know that until they are there. So the show stops.

JoseSalazar wrote:

Yeah…that’s not how it works.

Yeah, I am not getting that this guy has a lot of experience in the field.

BoeingG wrote:

Surprised this wasn't caught on the walkaround. Shameful. Pilots should be reported.

Oh brother. Can't see the top of the wing on a walk around.

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:

Some passengers will grumble that they have nothing to grumble about. Think about all the things you have heard passengers b****and moan about - why would a safety issue be anything other than a form of torture to them?

Many years ago I was on an ExpressJet flight waiting to take off for SAN from BFL. A circuit wasn’t setting properly (or something along those lines) and we faced a delay while the flight crew worked on it. Several passengers belly-ached incessantly, wondering “why can’t we go without it?” I bit my tongue and restrained from knocking someone’s block off, but I thought, “how stupid can people really be?” Eventually we took off, and everything was fine. But messing around with safety? NEVER hesitate to speak up!

Oh yeah! I’ve experienced this too! Several years ago I was on an ExpressJet ERJ-145 flying AMA-IAH. The lift on the de-icing truck wasn’t working so they had to get another truck to get the horizontal stabilizer de-iced. The whole thing took about 20 extra minutes and I believe some time was made up in flight. This guy behind me (probably in his 60s) was griping about missing his connection. I couldn’t resist and said “if they don’t de-ice the tail, none of us are making any connections.”

YEARS earlier (this was when I was in college at Texas Tech, so sometime between 2001 - 2004) I was flying DFW-LBB on an MQ ERJ-140/5 (can’t remember which) on a very late Sunday evening flight. We boarded and waited quite a while. The captain then came on and said the first officer called in sick and they couldn’t find a replacement. Again, LOTS of wailing and gnashing of teeth. One lady “why can’t we just fly without an officer?” I think the whole plane heard my eye roll.

AMALH747430 wrote:

One lady “why can’t we just fly without an officer?” I think the whole plane heard my eye roll.

You rolled your eyes because a woman did not have a detailed knowledge about a process that outside of this industry literally no one cares about...


Have you ever considered working in IT?

I've done this three times.. first was a Delta 727 Seattle to Cincinnati watched a aft flap that was speed taped lose the tape and start to flutter, Pointed it out to the FA and almost immediately had the captain peering out my window at it.. fortunately we were almost at the destination but had to wait for a replacement aircraft.

Second time on a UAL 737 noticed the attach bolts for the engine strut thumbnail fairing creeping up and departing the plane followed by the fairing.. told the FA who told me that was common occurrence, she never mentioned it to the flight deck. as I was leaving I stepped out of line and queried the Captain who immediately asked me to stay onboard to show the maintenance chief .. they held my connecting flight 30 minutes and personally drove me my connecting plane.

Third time Hughes Airwest DC9.. on boarding I noticed over half the fasteners in the min entry door frame were missing.. mentioned it to the Captain. they emptied the plane and we waited for a replacement.

See something, say something. A pax boarding Aloha 243 noticed a crack during boarding, but didn't say anything.

Ionosphere wrote:

See something, say something. A pax boarding Aloha 243 noticed a crack during boarding, but didn't say anything.

Say something could prevent something and is always better to say sorry after ( if you have the chance to say sorry )

Can someone explain what is a speed tape and it's primary function?

twaconnie wrote:

Can someone explain what is a speed tape and it's primary function?

Hi there! Speed tape is exactly what it sounds like - tape that is used for airplanes used to make temporary repairs so that the plane can fly at...well, "speed". It's not a permanent fix; however, it can be used for temporary fixes until the plane can get back to a place where a more permanent fix can be made. Someone else will have to explain where it can and cannot be used, but it is frequently.

I seem to remember reading a story a while back about a Concorde that took off and something punched a hole in the wing, and one passenger adamantly called for flight attendants to come over and see. They called the flight crew, and the flight returned to its departure airport. I can't find references to it (only 4590 comes up), but if it hadn't been for that passenger's insistence, the plane might have been lost.

Can anyone help out on that?

twaconnie wrote:

Can someone explain what is a speed tape and it's primary function?

It looks like duct tape but is actually aluminum tape backed with a high strength adhesive. It is used in non-structural repairs as a temporary fix, usually in instances where drag is a concern. For example, a missing inspection panel on the wing may be covered in this tape to prevent the air stream from entering the hole. Or a hole in a composite shroud caused by ground damage may be covered with speed tape, again to prevent drag and future damage from the air stream entering a hole.

It is an approved temporary repair. It just looks bad to passengers because of its appearance and ease of application to duct tape. It is in no way similar to it aside from the fact it is a similar color and comes on a roll. It is very sturdy when applied correctly.

Several years ago, I had just boarded a DL 738 that was missing the trailing edge of a canoe fairing. I figure the crew already knew about it and that it wasn’t a big deal, but I did mention it to the flight attendant. The flight attendant asked if the wing looked different than the other side of the aircraft, and I obliged real quick with a quick look out the opposite side before saying yes. She asked if I was an aircraft mechanic, and I said no, and she then passed my message up to the pilot. She came back and thanked me for letting them know, and we proceeded with the flight.

IMO, if you have safety concerns speak to someone. Just don't run up and down the cabin screaming.

One time I was nervous that the slats and flaps weren't out until immediately before we lined up on the runway. I thought about saying something but I'm no pilot. Is it normal to put them out right before the roll?

Passengers certainly should! I would! Everyone working around aircraft at any level are told to look out for issues with aircraft and report it. For me this applies to passengers aswell.

I would rather hear whispers and murmurs on the ground rather than screams of terror as the plane was plunging into the Atlantic.

Whenever there is a major incident or crash - how often we find out that it wasn't one problem, but a series of little things that went wrong or unattended. Although unlikely - this could have been one of those things. Always bring it to crew attention. Well done. Delays mean little. Lives mean everything.

BoeingG wrote:

Surprised this wasn't caught on the walkaround. Shameful. Pilots should be reported.

Uh... Come again, Captain?

Walk arounds are conducted from ground level.

Please don't speak about things of which you know nothing about.

Years ago was on a United 737-200 at altitude and noticed a small hydraulic leak on the side of the starboard engine. Pushed the call button and told the FA. No one overheard discussion as my row and the ones around me were empty. She was polite and said she'd tell the Captain. FO came back looked at it from the row behind me and we continued on to our destination. And the thrust reverser did deploy on landing.

BoeingG wrote:

If lives are jeopardized then it is. Negligence ought not be sanctioned. Pilots should be reprimanded forthwith.

Sorry, but I have to ask are you a pilot? Do you work in aviation? If not, just what do you do? If you are a pilot or work in aviation, please tell me where so I can avoid going there!

So, how do you define negligence? Is a mistake acceptable? Do you hold yourself to the same standard?

Several years ago I was flying on a BA A320 out of HAM to LHR. It was winter and the plane had already been deiced. Something just didn't look right after the deicing. Seems like with the ramp lighting the deicing fluid looked kind of jelly like on the window. I did inform one of the FA's as she walked by. Totally normal looking though and we took off without incident

BoeingG wrote:

Surprised this wasn't caught on the walkaround. Shameful. Pilots should be reported.

Think the pilot doing the walkaround would have to be about 11 feet tall to have noticed it. Some items as this sometimes requires a maint inspection for the integrity of the temparory repair prior to each departure untill a permanent repair is made. The crew has that info in the logbook and on dispatch releases regard the aircrafts MEL's. And maybe an inspection was made deemed ok to continue but since the passengers are all aware of it the crew wanted to make it look like they did something just the appease the passengers.

Sometime in the late 80's, I was on a PA 747 from LHR to MIA in a window seat near the wing. Whilst over the Atlantic, I noticed something like a screw sticking up from the top front of the wing. In short order it disappeared. Not too long after, I noticed another one sticking up...and it too was soon gone. In all, I guess I saw four or five of these stick up and then eventually disappear. I figured they were rivets that had come loose, raised above the wing surface, and then flew off. I never said anything although often wondered if I should have.

As pretty much everyone already said, the pax did the right thing! But even more so, that's just one of the reasons why window shades should remain open until takeoff is complete!

In the late 60's, our family was travelling to Majorca on a DanAir Comet from Gatwick. As an observant teenager, I pointed out to my parents, that there seemed to be a lot of liquid pooling under one wing. A cabin crew member asked me to keep my observations to myself. It was just condensation.

We took off and what seemed like a very short time later, the captain advised we were landing in Luton due to a technical issue. Apparently the airline had a spare plane there that had been repaired from a previous diversion.

Off we went again, but then landed at Bristol. Another technical issue. This time we would have to wait for a replacement plane, which turned out to be our first one again.

Passengers had the option of continuing with the journey, or returning to Gatwick to collect their cars and go home.

Probably half the passengers decided to not go any further. Almost a row each to ourselves. The cabin crew encouraged us to have many servings of food (yes, in those days, even the lowest fares came with food!).

My father said if the crew were still on board, it was OK to continue. Not a view shared by my mother or sister.

I was on United 747-200 #4 engine Pylon end of pylon behind Engine's exhaust The fin was shaking all the way up the air cruising. I told the flight attendant to look at this. He said Okay I'll inform the captain. I hope the captain report maintenance to check with the pylon fin was loosen shaking. My flight was safe arrived on time from ORD-SFO.


Q

https://imgur.com/LQO7wZ0

See red circle that's what I saw shaking.

Q

I was told years ago to pull out a business card and write down the problem on the back. The FA can pass it to the crew (and of course you can explain it to the FA in addition) and if your card is aviation related they might pay more attention to the issue.

BoeingG wrote:

Surprised this wasn't caught on the walkaround. Shameful. Pilots should be reported.

Lol, you want the crew to do a C check for thier preflight?

AMALH747430 wrote:

YEARS earlier (this was when I was in college at Texas Tech, so sometime between 2001 - 2004) I was flying DFW-LBB on an MQ ERJ-140/5 (can’t remember which) on a very late Sunday evening flight. We boarded and waited quite a while. The captain then came on and said the first officer called in sick and they couldn’t find a replacement. Again, LOTS of wailing and gnashing of teeth. One lady “why can’t we just fly without an officer?” I think the whole plane heard my eye roll.

I experienced the same thing with a missing flight attendant for a PHL to HPN flight on USX/Mesa, folks were offering to serve the drinks themselves, not realizing that the FA is required for safety.

I'm curious if the announcements would go over better with more context. Everyone here knows that Captains, First Officers, and Flight Attendants have a significant safety role, however the average person doesn't know. Something like "Safety and Federal Law require that we have a full compliment of crew, including a First Officer to operate this flight."

When I was a kid I got on an Ozark FH-227B from ORD to BMI and noticed one of the tires was looking flatter than the others. I said something to the FA and she smiled but my Mom said "he notices things" and we did have a 20 minute delay while the tire was checked.

I was once lined up for takeoff in CVG back when they had long queues for the runways. I saw an AA B727 on an adjacent taxiway with fluid pouring briskly from around the wing root. I mentioned this to a passing FA. She then called a deadheading pilot in the front row of coach who peaked out my window. He was concerned enough to use the FA phone to call the cockpit. That 727 eventually took a turn-off, presumably returning to the terminal or at least to a pad where the issue could be sorted out.

But to answer the original question, absolutely speak up if you feel something isn't right.