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Starlionblue
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Re: Cathay Pacific Suspends 747F and Cargo-Only Pax Flights for 7 Days

Sun Jan 02, 2022 3:29 am

hongkongflyer wrote:
SInGAPORE_AIR wrote:
Captaincurious wrote:
Many of my friends abroad stayed at home bc of isolation or fear of omicron during Christmas and people in HK can enjoy their Christmas without any fear or need for isolation. Business is at usual and things are normal


Really ? According to Dr David Hui Shu-cheong (apparently a "leading government pandemic advisor"): "Hui urged residents to get tested if they had been to any of the 60 places known to have been visited by the aircrew, and said people should avoid gathering in groups to celebrate New Year’s Eve due to the risk of Omicron’s spread."


Originally we could have a very safe environment for us to celebrating the Xmas, which could be proofed by numbers of large activities organised in this Dec ( all cancelled in 2020) until some CX crews ignore the requirements to stay at home recently, thankfully most got fired by CX afterwords.


Another way of seeing it is that crew have been working under horrendously stressful conditions for over a year, and that people are people.

It is impossible to create perfect systems when they depend on human behaviour. (Coincidentally, this is the basis of modern CRM and cockpit ergonomics.) As DeltaMD90 says, it seems a poor policy when all it takes is a single person to break the rules to make it all fall apart.

Single-layer defense with a single point of failure will eventually fail. Defense in depth is the proper strategy, but any depth seems singularly absent. Blaming the company for the errors of a few employees is missing the point.
Last edited by Starlionblue on Sun Jan 02, 2022 3:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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Re: Cathay Pacific Suspends 747F and Cargo-Only Pax Flights for 7 Days

Sun Jan 02, 2022 3:33 am

hongkongflyer wrote:
Actually how many of you know why the rules are changed suddenly? Because some CX crews not following the stay home rules which lead to the spread of the O version of COVID to the community. We are originally preparing to re-open the boarder with China at the very final stage and now all the pervious efforts are gone.

At this stage I could said, for HK, re-opening boarder with China is much more important then re-connecting with the else of the world. We can only choice to reopen the boarder with either China or the else of the world.

Someone above quoted Singapore’s policy to reopen the boarder, I would like to remind that they finally can’t afford a large number of cases everyday and have now temporarily suspended the so call “ quarantine free” travelling scheme.


What a miserable choice to be forced to have. I would say I feel sorry for the situation but it's clear what side you stand on.

Also, to be very clear, Singapore's 'Vaccinated Travel Lane' bookings have been suspended until 20th January 2022. Vaccinated Travel Lane flights continue to operate and those that were already booked on such flights continue to arrive and take advantage of quarantine-free arrival into Singapore (with daily testing for 7 days).
 
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flee
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Re: Cathay Pacific Suspends 747F and Cargo-Only Pax Flights for 7 Days

Sun Jan 02, 2022 3:34 am

blandy62 wrote:
hongkongflyer wrote:
Actually how many of you know why the rules are changed suddenly? Because some CX crews not following the stay home rules which lead to the spread of the O version of COVID to the community. We are originally preparing to re-open the boarder with China at the very final stage and now all the pervious efforts are gone.

At this stage I could said, for HK, re-opening boarder with China is much more important then re-connecting with the else of the world. We can only choice to reopen the boarder with either China or the else of the world.

Someone above quoted Singapore’s policy to reopen the boarder, I would like to remind that they finally can’t afford a large number of cases everyday and have now temporarily suspended the so call “ quarantine free” travelling scheme.


exactly. Everything is gone just because someone couldn't not stay home for 3 days.

First we blame the Wuhan market, now we blame CX.

Bottom line is that whatever happens, Covid is spreading like wildfire because there is human interaction that allows the virus to jump from one human to another. Scientists and politicians don't seem to have an answer for this virus. Whether the policy is zero Covid or not, it still spreads in the community....

I think CX's days are numbered - the shareholders should shut it down and stop the cash bleeding. Covid isn't going to go away anytime soon!
 
SeaDoo
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Re: Cathay Pacific Suspends 747F and Cargo-Only Pax Flights for 7 Days

Sun Jan 02, 2022 3:59 am

Heavierthanair wrote:
Hi Zeke, sad story, I can imagine what you are going thru. There is no logic in anything happening presently in HKG and the mainland for that matter. I hope your post will not have any consequences for you, I always appreciated your professional insight and contributions to this forum. I hope you stay well or have left to a safe place already


Ditto.

Best of luck.
 
migair54
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Re: Cathay Pacific Suspends 747F and Cargo-Only Pax Flights for 7 Days

Sun Jan 02, 2022 4:28 am

It is a non sense policy but they are what they are, they just want to control people against their own will and show that they can do it, HK was too free and independent and now it has to come in the loop, not only CX will suffer but many other HK independent business.

Luckily there are plenty of other airlines that are going to make a good cut out of this, they will take cargo and up the prices accordingly.
 
blandy62
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Re: Cathay Pacific Suspends 747F and Cargo-Only Pax Flights for 7 Days

Sun Jan 02, 2022 4:45 am


I think CX's days are numbered - the shareholders should shut it down and stop the cash bleeding. Covid isn't going to go away anytime soon!


that's probably part of the big master plan...
 
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spinotter
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Re: Cathay Pacific Suspends 747F and Cargo-Only Pax Flights for 7 Days

Sun Jan 02, 2022 4:47 am

N1120A wrote:
This is very clearly not about COVID control.


How so? You may be right, but I wonder if the same regulations apply to China Eastern in Shanghai, China Southern in Guangzhou, and Chinese airlines in Beijing? If so, then perhaps it is about COVID control. But if Hong Kong and CX are being singled out, it is hard to disagree with your conclusion. Are there any US flights right now to the PRC by DL/AA/ UA? Eliminating those flights might be another goal of the draconian rules.
 
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spinotter
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Re: Cathay Pacific Suspends 747F and Cargo-Only Pax Flights for 7 Days

Sun Jan 02, 2022 5:16 am

volauvent wrote:
Captaincurious wrote:
volauvent wrote:

If that 'solution' is complete and durable isolation from the rest of the World with zero strategy for ever reopening, harsh restrictive measures on citizens, destruction of local businesses, annihilation of HK's status as an international business and finance hub (its very raison-d'etre), then I suggest that you look for different solutions... the rest of the World has.


Many EU countries decided to lock down during Christmas due to Omicron and other countries e.g NZ also impose strict quarantine restrictions. I agree it is harsh, but given how prevalent omicron is, I can't see another way. Many of my friends abroad stayed at home bc of isolation or fear of omicron during Christmas and people in HK can enjoy their Christmas without any fear or need for isolation. Business is at usual and things are normal, unless you are dealing with export and import or you are doing business travel. I would say the HK's approach do not deserve as much condemnation as in the forum.


Lockdowns in Europe and the US aim to slow the spread so that the healthcare system can cope. HK's situation is very different as they are still aiming for a zero-covid goal.
Whereas one could argue that it may have been wise during the first waves, before vaccination was available and to an extent while Delta was still the prominent strain, it is hard to see what the end game is... Covid will not go away, therefore a zero-tolerance policy necessarily has no end.

Business is at usual and things are normal, unless you are dealing with export and import or you are doing business travel.


You seem to greatly underestimate the importance to Hong Kong of 'import/export' and businesses which depend on the openness of HK. It very much became the city it is today because of its status as a hub between the World and China. This status is very dependent on the flow of people (which is now almost entirely dead) and the flow of goods (which these latest restrictions on crew dealt a further blow to).
Things are 'normal' only in the sense that shops and restaurants are open and people can get around with few restrictions. In the background, many large companies are eyeing moving out of HK as its long-praised ease of doing business now seems all but history.
Once you have removed this status from HK, there isn't much left...
An overpriced real-estate market which has brought it much wealth, but which now seems to be in peril as the mainland real-estate sector takes a tumble?
A shopping destination for mainlanders which will depend on a travel bubble that will inevitably burst come the first local case? (which is happening now, btw)
A financial exchange place which gives access to a now lackluster market that seems doomed to suffer from endless political manipulation?

HK in isolation to the Word is nothing. It just becomes a fancy suburb of Shenzhen...

I'd rather undergo a lockdown in Europe that I know will end in a few weeks than living in the semblance of normality in a city-prison from where there is no escape in sight.

And if you think that by isolating now, HK is saving itself from the hardship other nations go through, then I have more bad news:
The zero-covid either goes on forever, meaning that this 'normalness' in which people are stuck in a small city and constantly run the risk of seeing themselves an their families being thrown in a prison camp for being at the wrong place at the wrong time also goes on forever.
And if the goal is to reopen eventually, then the virus will still be unleashed on a population that, unlike the rest of the World, has built no immunity whatsoever to it, apart from the vaccines that too few people will have taken too long ago. Not to mention that local immunity against other regularly circulating viruses like the flu will also have been diminished.

If you want an example of what to do for a small city-nation, look no further than Singapore, which successfully avoided the brunt of the first waves, then lead a rapid and successful vaccination campaign and is now slowly reopening to reap the benefits of its policy as it will welcome many of the businesses that are fleeing HK.

To get back to the topic, I can't see CX surviving this, unfortunately. I also can't help but thinking that this is by design...


You and Zeke have made really cogent arguments in this thread. I am convinced. But other nations have been aiming at Zero COVID too, such as Australia and NZ. Omicron may have ended that policy. But don't you think that the Chinese authorities are capable of seeing the weaknesses that you are pointing out? Their entire economy depends on export and foreign contacts. What do you think their end-strategy for COVID might be? Are they pushing Zero-Covid because the pandemic originated in China? They risk becoming the new Hermit Nation.
 
IADCA
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Re: Cathay Pacific Suspends 747F and Cargo-Only Pax Flights for 7 Days

Sun Jan 02, 2022 1:09 pm

Starlionblue wrote:
IADCA wrote:
Wouldn't this pretty much kill the economics of the entire airline? If sustained, wouldn't it mean that a crew could basically only operate a single out and back from HKG every week?


Crew can operate again within the quarantine period. This is how "Closed Loop" crewing functions. Crew members are in a bubble where they only leave quarantine hotels at outports or homeports to operate. At the end of the loop, they spend the entire quarantine period at home port and can then rejoin the community.


Thanks. I get it now. Still seems like a pretty rough lifestyle for any crew who have families, but it's at least semi-workable.
 
USAirALB
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Re: Cathay Pacific Suspends 747F and Cargo-Only Pax Flights for 7 Days

Sun Jan 02, 2022 4:29 pm

blandy62 wrote:

I think CX's days are numbered - the shareholders should shut it down and stop the cash bleeding. Covid isn't going to go away anytime soon!


that's probably part of the big master plan...

I apologize for making this post somewhat political, but I am afraid talking about CX in today's current environment is impossible without mentioning politics.

Anyways, call me a conspiracy theorist, but I wonder if all of these illogical/bizarre policies imposed on CX are designed to effectively remove CX from Swire's majority control; in essence, removing the last large vestige of British colonialism from HK.

I lived in HK for two years, and I have many great memories flying CX. My heart breaks for all CX employees...especially all frontline staff. I spent almost three hours Friday night on FaceTime with a dear friend who is a CX FA who is near breaking point.
 
jeffrey0032j
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Re: Cathay Pacific Suspends 747F and Cargo-Only Pax Flights for 7 Days

Sun Jan 02, 2022 5:32 pm

USAirALB wrote:
blandy62 wrote:

I think CX's days are numbered - the shareholders should shut it down and stop the cash bleeding. Covid isn't going to go away anytime soon!


that's probably part of the big master plan...

I apologize for making this post somewhat political, but I am afraid talking about CX in today's current environment is impossible without mentioning politics.

Anyways, call me a conspiracy theorist, but I wonder if all of these illogical/bizarre policies imposed on CX are designed to effectively remove CX from Swire's majority control; in essence, removing the last large vestige of British colonialism from HK.

I lived in HK for two years, and I have many great memories flying CX. My heart breaks for all CX employees...especially all frontline staff. I spent almost three hours Friday night on FaceTime with a dear friend who is a CX FA who is near breaking point.

Nah, not Swire or CX specifically, the goal seems to be isolating HK as a whole and diminishing its importance in Greater China. Never mind if Singapore or Tokyo gets the businesses lost, as long as China's unity is strengthened - that is the goal of Beijing.

Sorry for the political post.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Cathay Pacific Suspends 747F and Cargo-Only Pax Flights for 7 Days

Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:12 pm

hongkongflyer wrote:
Actually how many of you know why the rules are changed suddenly? Because some CX crews not following the stay home rules which lead to the spread of the O version of COVID to the community. We are originally preparing to re-open the boarder with China at the very final stage and now all the pervious efforts are gone.

At this stage I could said, for HK, re-opening boarder with China is much more important then re-connecting with the else of the world. We can only choice to reopen the boarder with either China or the else of the world.

Someone above quoted Singapore’s policy to reopen the boarder, I would like to remind that they finally can’t afford a large number of cases everyday and have now temporarily suspended the so call “ quarantine free” travelling scheme.


Spoken like a true propaganda master for the HKgov...

And let me remind you again that mainland is having virus outbreaks themselves. But hey, let's focus on mainland and nothing else.

hongkongflyer wrote:
SInGAPORE_AIR wrote:
Captaincurious wrote:
Many of my friends abroad stayed at home bc of isolation or fear of omicron during Christmas and people in HK can enjoy their Christmas without any fear or need for isolation. Business is at usual and things are normal


Really ? According to Dr David Hui Shu-cheong (apparently a "leading government pandemic advisor"): "Hui urged residents to get tested if they had been to any of the 60 places known to have been visited by the aircrew, and said people should avoid gathering in groups to celebrate New Year’s Eve due to the risk of Omicron’s spread."


Originally we could have a very safe environment for us to celebrating the Xmas, which could be proofed by numbers of large activities organised in this Dec ( all cancelled in 2020) until some CX crews ignore the requirements to stay at home recently, thankfully most got fired by CX afterwords.


Total BS...HK is still very safe when it comes to the virus. And Christmas? You mean crowded malls and crowded area in TST and LKF?

The fear mongering in HK is just nuts. Even in mainland people had stop wearing mask and start to crowd tourist attractions again for awhile. Keep living in fear...for all those random virus case in Hk when was the last time somebody die from it? How many people that are tested positive are asymptomtic? For that matter, how many people were tested positive in those stupid "let's close the whole building and test everyone" idiocy?

trex8 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Seems like a good thread to report this:

Hong Kong flagship carrier Cathay Pacific Airways said on Saturday two of its aircrew whom have tested positive for the Omicron variant were sacked for breaching medical surveillance regulations.

Cathay said five of its aircrew had tested positive following their return to Hong Kong from duty, and investigation into the cases had indicated a serious breach of protocols by some of those individuals.

"Failure to comply with medical surveillance regulations will lead to disciplinary procedures. Two of the individuals are no longer employed by Cathay Pacific," the carrier said in a statement. It gave no further details. The regulations include spending a period quarantining at home after flying.

Ref: https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 2022-01-01

From the outside looking in, things seem tense at CX these days.

you break government rules and put your co workers, ther families and others potentially at risk you face the circumstances. BR fired a pilot for similar and that pilot infected other crew.


And the BR outbreak in Taiwan lasted what? 6 weeks? Taiwan is back to 100% normal after that...

(Now TBH Taiwan quarantine is only slightly less strict than HK).
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: Cathay Pacific Suspends 747F and Cargo-Only Pax Flights for 7 Days

Sun Jan 02, 2022 9:45 pm

IADCA wrote:
Starlionblue wrote:
IADCA wrote:
Wouldn't this pretty much kill the economics of the entire airline? If sustained, wouldn't it mean that a crew could basically only operate a single out and back from HKG every week?


Crew can operate again within the quarantine period. This is how "Closed Loop" crewing functions. Crew members are in a bubble where they only leave quarantine hotels at outports or homeports to operate. At the end of the loop, they spend the entire quarantine period at home port and can then rejoin the community.


Thanks. I get it now. Still seems like a pretty rough lifestyle for any crew who have families, but it's at least semi-workable.


"Pretty rough lifestyle" is accurate, but it's much rougher than just the closed loop.

- This has been going for more than a year, with no defined end date.
- There is no certainty of anything as requirements change with little notice. So crew can be out flying and on return instead of going home, they might end up in quarantine, or the quarantine might be extended. Or a contact can have tested positive so they end up in quarantine camp for three weeks.
- Beyond the loops, there are also extended turns. So an augmented crew might do Hong Kong to London and back without a layover. That's over twenty-four hours on the aircraft. Pretty tough on the body.

It is rough even if you don't have a family. The inability to have a normal social life is a raw deal. And even when crew are out in the community, they and their families are randomly and arbitrarily denied access to many services because they have been outside Hong Kong in the past three weeks. Examples include doctors, dentists, social clubs, running clubs, and so forth.
 
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hongkongflyer
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Re: Cathay Pacific Suspends 747F and Cargo-Only Pax Flights for 7 Days

Mon Jan 03, 2022 12:11 am

Starlionblue wrote:
hongkongflyer wrote:
SInGAPORE_AIR wrote:

Really ? According to Dr David Hui Shu-cheong (apparently a "leading government pandemic advisor"): "Hui urged residents to get tested if they had been to any of the 60 places known to have been visited by the aircrew, and said people should avoid gathering in groups to celebrate New Year’s Eve due to the risk of Omicron’s spread."


Originally we could have a very safe environment for us to celebrating the Xmas, which could be proofed by numbers of large activities organised in this Dec ( all cancelled in 2020) until some CX crews ignore the requirements to stay at home recently, thankfully most got fired by CX afterwords.


Another way of seeing it is that crew have been working under horrendously stressful conditions for over a year, and that people are people.

It is impossible to create perfect systems when they depend on human behaviour. (Coincidentally, this is the basis of modern CRM and cockpit ergonomics.) As DeltaMD90 says, it seems a poor policy when all it takes is a single person to break the rules to make it all fall apart.

Single-layer defense with a single point of failure will eventually fail. Defense in depth is the proper strategy, but any depth seems singularly absent. Blaming the company for the errors of a few employees is missing the point.


While I agreed the life of FA are tough, but CX offered the choice for them to join the closed flying pattern or not. If you think you can’t bear the stress, you could choice not to join the schedule (and still have flights to operate). It is not an reason to break the rules.
 
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hongkongflyer
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Re: Cathay Pacific Suspends 747F and Cargo-Only Pax Flights for 7 Days

Mon Jan 03, 2022 12:14 am

DeltaMD90 wrote:
Sounds like Hong Kong has a pretty poor COVID policy when all it takes is a single person breaking the rules for it all to fall apart.

And of course it was going to happen. Only a matter of time.

A more sensible policy is to acknowledge human nature and to not go for a plan that has a 0% margin of error.

Hopefully Cathay Pacific won't end up getting punished (even more, one could argue) over this


I don’t think the policy which enable HK to have zero local case for a long period of time is a pool one. At most we only have a <500 cases at one day while there are thousands of cases per day in other countries (adjusted for the difference in population)
 
jeffrey0032j
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Re: Cathay Pacific Suspends 747F and Cargo-Only Pax Flights for 7 Days

Mon Jan 03, 2022 1:52 am

hongkongflyer wrote:
DeltaMD90 wrote:
Sounds like Hong Kong has a pretty poor COVID policy when all it takes is a single person breaking the rules for it all to fall apart.

And of course it was going to happen. Only a matter of time.

A more sensible policy is to acknowledge human nature and to not go for a plan that has a 0% margin of error.

Hopefully Cathay Pacific won't end up getting punished (even more, one could argue) over this


I don’t think the policy which enable HK to have zero local case for a long period of time is a pool one. At most we only have a <500 cases at one day while there are thousands of cases per day in other countries (adjusted for the difference in population)

Sure, while the city is closed off and diminishes in importance. What a great trade off.
 
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volauvent
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Re: Cathay Pacific Suspends 747F and Cargo-Only Pax Flights for 7 Days

Mon Jan 03, 2022 3:06 am

hongkongflyer wrote:
I don’t think the policy which enable HK to have zero local case for a long period of time is a pool one. At most we only have a <500 cases at one day while there are thousands of cases per day in other countries (adjusted for the difference in population)


And when does this end? What is the exit strategy?
 
acavpics
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Re: Cathay Pacific Suspends 747F and Cargo-Only Pax Flights for 7 Days

Mon Jan 03, 2022 3:08 am

I'm not joking when I say this. But if CX dies, the rest of the aviation world should literally boycott mainland Chinese airlines from serving them. Let China face the consequences of how it is treating HK, all the way from anti-democracy to ridiculous COVID-19 rules. They shall reap what they sow.

If CX is run out of business, then a crappy mainland CHinese carrier shall follow suit. So then China and HK will be even.
 
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flee
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Re: Cathay Pacific Suspends 747F and Cargo-Only Pax Flights for 7 Days

Mon Jan 03, 2022 3:34 am

I fear for the safety of CX operations if crew are subject to so much pressure. Their mental health could be deteriorating without anyone realising it and sooner or later, they might make operational mistakes.
 
Speedy752
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Re: Cathay Pacific Suspends 747F and Cargo-Only Pax Flights for 7 Days

Mon Jan 03, 2022 4:00 am

hongkongflyer wrote:
DeltaMD90 wrote:
Sounds like Hong Kong has a pretty poor COVID policy when all it takes is a single person breaking the rules for it all to fall apart.

And of course it was going to happen. Only a matter of time.

A more sensible policy is to acknowledge human nature and to not go for a plan that has a 0% margin of error.

Hopefully Cathay Pacific won't end up getting punished (even more, one could argue) over this


I don’t think the policy which enable HK to have zero local case for a long period of time is a pool one. At most we only have a <500 cases at one day while there are thousands of cases per day in other countries (adjusted for the difference in population)


The virus isn’t going away. The longer HK and CX get diminished by these measures the steeper the hill to climb to regain their former glory if that becomes possible. Customers will find other suppliers, logistics will create new routes to cut them out and those won’t be easily undone. Omicron spreads in vaxxed and unvaxxed. COVID zero is destined for failure long term and along the way. Victim blaming pilots who caught COVID at work isn’t a strategy.
 
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c933103
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Re: Cathay Pacific Suspends 747F and Cargo-Only Pax Flights for 7 Days

Mon Jan 03, 2022 5:25 am

Speedy752 wrote:
hongkongflyer wrote:
DeltaMD90 wrote:
Sounds like Hong Kong has a pretty poor COVID policy when all it takes is a single person breaking the rules for it all to fall apart.

And of course it was going to happen. Only a matter of time.

A more sensible policy is to acknowledge human nature and to not go for a plan that has a 0% margin of error.

Hopefully Cathay Pacific won't end up getting punished (even more, one could argue) over this


I don’t think the policy which enable HK to have zero local case for a long period of time is a pool one. At most we only have a <500 cases at one day while there are thousands of cases per day in other countries (adjusted for the difference in population)


The virus isn’t going away. The longer HK and CX get diminished by these measures the steeper the hill to climb to regain their former glory if that becomes possible. Customers will find other suppliers, logistics will create new routes to cut them out and those won’t be easily undone. Omicron spreads in vaxxed and unvaxxed. COVID zero is destined for failure long term and along the way. Victim blaming pilots who caught COVID at work isn’t a strategy.

Well that's the plan. Nowadays China talking about their strategy of double inward and outward circulation in economy and they want to put Hong Kong in the internal part of their economy system instead of the external part.
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: Cathay Pacific Suspends 747F and Cargo-Only Pax Flights for 7 Days

Mon Jan 03, 2022 6:00 am

hongkongflyer wrote:
Starlionblue wrote:
hongkongflyer wrote:

Originally we could have a very safe environment for us to celebrating the Xmas, which could be proofed by numbers of large activities organised in this Dec ( all cancelled in 2020) until some CX crews ignore the requirements to stay at home recently, thankfully most got fired by CX afterwords.


Another way of seeing it is that crew have been working under horrendously stressful conditions for over a year, and that people are people.

It is impossible to create perfect systems when they depend on human behaviour. (Coincidentally, this is the basis of modern CRM and cockpit ergonomics.) As DeltaMD90 says, it seems a poor policy when all it takes is a single person to break the rules to make it all fall apart.

Single-layer defense with a single point of failure will eventually fail. Defense in depth is the proper strategy, but any depth seems singularly absent. Blaming the company for the errors of a few employees is missing the point.


While I agreed the life of FA are tough, but CX offered the choice for them to join the closed flying pattern or not. If you think you can’t bear the stress, you could choice not to join the schedule (and still have flights to operate). It is not an reason to break the rules.


Closed loop is indeed voluntary. However even without operating closed loop, there is a requirement for isolation after a layover. This severely limits "life". Not to mention the constant risk of being sent to hospital or quarantine camp for crew and their families and friends, as well as colleagues of family members.

I'm making excuses for breaking the rules. I'm pointing out that it's a raw deal for crew either way.
 
AA100
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Re: Cathay Pacific Suspends 747F and Cargo-Only Pax Flights for 7 Days

Mon Jan 03, 2022 6:33 am

hongkongflyer wrote:
DeltaMD90 wrote:
Sounds like Hong Kong has a pretty poor COVID policy when all it takes is a single person breaking the rules for it all to fall apart.

And of course it was going to happen. Only a matter of time.

A more sensible policy is to acknowledge human nature and to not go for a plan that has a 0% margin of error.

Hopefully Cathay Pacific won't end up getting punished (even more, one could argue) over this


I don’t think the policy which enable HK to have zero local case for a long period of time is a pool one. At most we only have a <500 cases at one day while there are thousands of cases per day in other countries (adjusted for the difference in population)


You sir, are like a lot of people I am meeting on the street more and more.... you've become completely isolationist and oblivious to the rest of the world. When you watch the news each night, you are reminded that this a "western pandemic" when they show yet again the protests against anti-lockdown. You've completely forgotten that most services and products are imported into HKG. There is only so far choi sum and Chinese originating pork products will feed you or indeed the economy... to keep this on point (aviation), its absolutely vital that aviation be allowed to operate without the duress it currently is under. Most products and goods come by air freight, heck even the vaccines.... All the financial institutions and spin off industries rely so heavily on the free flow of people to do business. That combined is what makes Hong Kong what it is. It is why we can afford to go shopping to buy those luxury handbags flown in from Italy, and dine at 5 Star French restaurants with cheese air freighted in weekly...

Hong Kong will be nothing without its airport. If only Hong Kong people could wake up, and stop favoring this short sighted gain over long term prosperity. Yes it is fabulous to go out and about and be relatively unfearful of catching Covid, but the price of this is too high.

We will lose our airline. We will lose global talent. We will lose global financial status. We will lose the international chefs. We will lose the luxury shops. We will lose our prosperity. We will lose our status as a cargo hub. We will lose the ability to compete against other cities.
 
Cardude2
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Re: Cathay Pacific Suspends 747F and Cargo-Only Pax Flights for 7 Days

Mon Jan 03, 2022 7:31 am

I think at this point for a majority of reasons, Cathay will either go chapter 7 or merge wit a mainland airline and become what China eastern and Shanghai airlines are doing. Sad but probably true. HK express may be spared
 
blandy62
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Re: Cathay Pacific Suspends 747F and Cargo-Only Pax Flights for 7 Days

Mon Jan 03, 2022 7:59 am

Cardude2 wrote:
I think at this point for a majority of reasons, Cathay will either go chapter 7 or merge wit a mainland airline and become what China eastern and Shanghai airlines are doing. Sad but probably true. HK express may be spared


More likely something like Air China HongKong, as Air China already owns quite a big share in CX. So one of the last vestige of the colonial time will be gone
 
AngMoh
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Re: Cathay Pacific Suspends 747F and Cargo-Only Pax Flights for 7 Days

Mon Jan 03, 2022 8:33 am

AA100 wrote:
Hong Kong will be nothing without its airport. If only Hong Kong people could wake up, and stop favoring this short sighted gain over long term prosperity. Yes it is fabulous to go out and about and be relatively unfearful of catching Covid, but the price of this is too high.


Hong Kong airport is aiming to raise US$4B in bonds. This is seen as a test if investors believe in the airport.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/busines ... ds-2411951

I think it will be challenging to reach this goal unless a government linked investor steps up, like what happened with Temasek taking up all remaining SIA bonds.
 
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zeke
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Re: Cathay Pacific Suspends 747F and Cargo-Only Pax Flights for 7 Days

Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:51 am

AngMoh wrote:

Hong Kong airport is aiming to raise US$4B in bonds. This is seen as a test if investors believe in the airport.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/busines ... ds-2411951

I think it will be challenging to reach this goal unless a government linked investor steps up, like what happened with Temasek taking up all remaining SIA bonds.


They wont have an issue, last I one was over subscribed. Interest rates for are so low bonds look very good
 
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hongkongflyer
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Re: Cathay Pacific Suspends 747F and Cargo-Only Pax Flights for 7 Days

Mon Jan 03, 2022 12:07 pm

acavpics wrote:
I'm not joking when I say this. But if CX dies, the rest of the aviation world should literally boycott mainland Chinese airlines from serving them. Let China face the consequences of how it is treating HK, all the way from anti-democracy to ridiculous COVID-19 rules. They shall reap what they sow.

If CX is run out of business, then a crappy mainland CHinese carrier shall follow suit. So then China and HK will be even.


If they aimed to kill CX, HK gov won’t provide the emergency fund to them before
 
Opus99
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Re: Cathay Pacific Suspends 747F and Cargo-Only Pax Flights for 7 Days

Mon Jan 03, 2022 12:13 pm

Do mainland Chinese carriers have these same restrictions on their cargo flights?
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: Cathay Pacific Suspends 747F and Cargo-Only Pax Flights for 7 Days

Mon Jan 03, 2022 7:43 pm

Opus99 wrote:
Do mainland Chinese carriers have these same restrictions on their cargo flights?


AFAIK, the rules are the same for any carrier. However, Mainland carrier crew are not based in HK, and most likely all they do are turns. They never enter HK.
 
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zeke
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Re: Cathay Pacific Suspends 747F and Cargo-Only Pax Flights for 7 Days

Mon Jan 03, 2022 8:51 pm

spinotter wrote:
If so, then perhaps it is about COVID control.


I just read that China has put tariffs on importing coffee, alcohol, honey, olive oil, chocolate under the guise it is covid related. That is to get around the WTO rules on unfair tariffs as they are claiming a health exemption.

https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-econ ... rms-braced

Everything is being thrown under the banner of covid control.

spinotter wrote:
But other nations have been aiming at Zero COVID too, such as Australia and NZ. Omicron may have ended that policy.


Australia is not covid zero they are seeing lots of new cases each day, however next to no deaths and low hospitalization rate. Reason being they used their time of tight border controls to vaccinate the population which stands around 85%.
 
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c933103
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Re: Cathay Pacific Suspends 747F and Cargo-Only Pax Flights for 7 Days

Mon Jan 03, 2022 10:58 pm

Opus99 wrote:
Do mainland Chinese carriers have these same restrictions on their cargo flights?

Hong Kong Government's pretext for maintaining covid-zero policy is to enable quarantine-free travel with Mainland China
 
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spinotter
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Re: Cathay Pacific Suspends 747F and Cargo-Only Pax Flights for 7 Days

Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:09 am

zeke wrote:
spinotter wrote:
If so, then perhaps it is about COVID control.


I just read that China has put tariffs on importing coffee, alcohol, honey, olive oil, chocolate under the guise it is covid related. That is to get around the WTO rules on unfair tariffs as they are claiming a health exemption.

https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-econ ... rms-braced

Everything is being thrown under the banner of covid control.

spinotter wrote:
But other nations have been aiming at Zero COVID too, such as Australia and NZ. Omicron may have ended that policy.


Australia is not covid zero they are seeing lots of new cases each day, however next to no deaths and low hospitalization rate. Reason being they used their time of tight border controls to vaccinate the population which stands around 85%.


Zero COVID cannot go on forever if a country aims to be part of the world, but Oz and NZ seemed to keep that goal until recently with the Omicron upsurge. But does anyone know whether the regulations concerning Hong Kong flights and crew apply to all Chinese airports?
 
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volauvent
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Re: Cathay Pacific Suspends 747F and Cargo-Only Pax Flights for 7 Days

Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:23 am

spinotter wrote:
Zero COVID cannot go on forever if a country aims to be part of the world, but Oz and NZ seemed to keep that goal until recently with the Omicron upsurge.


That's not true.
NZ and Oz maintained a zero-covid stance for a long time, but when it became evident that endemicity was the future, they eventually changed their stance to covid-resilience after mass vaccination, through phases of slow opening.

This was well before Omicron was even a thing.
 
VolvoBus
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Re: Cathay Pacific Suspends 747F and Cargo-Only Pax Flights for 7 Days

Tue Jan 04, 2022 12:08 pm

zeke wrote:
AngMoh wrote:

Hong Kong airport is aiming to raise US$4B in bonds. This is seen as a test if investors believe in the airport.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/busines ... ds-2411951

I think it will be challenging to reach this goal unless a government linked investor steps up, like what happened with Temasek taking up all remaining SIA bonds.


They wont have an issue, last I one was over subscribed. Interest rates for are so low bonds look very good


Evergrande and DiDi won't do a lot for general sentiment.
 
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hongkongflyer
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Re: Cathay Pacific Suspends 747F and Cargo-Only Pax Flights for 7 Days

Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:24 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
hongkongflyer wrote:
Actually how many of you know why the rules are changed suddenly? Because some CX crews not following the stay home rules which lead to the spread of the O version of COVID to the community. We are originally preparing to re-open the boarder with China at the very final stage and now all the pervious efforts are gone.

At this stage I could said, for HK, re-opening boarder with China is much more important then re-connecting with the else of the world. We can only choice to reopen the boarder with either China or the else of the world.

Someone above quoted Singapore’s policy to reopen the boarder, I would like to remind that they finally can’t afford a large number of cases everyday and have now temporarily suspended the so call “ quarantine free” travelling scheme.


Spoken like a true propaganda master for the HKgov...

And let me remind you again that mainland is having virus outbreaks themselves. But hey, let's focus on mainland and nothing else.

hongkongflyer wrote:
SInGAPORE_AIR wrote:

Really ? According to Dr David Hui Shu-cheong (apparently a "leading government pandemic advisor"): "Hui urged residents to get tested if they had been to any of the 60 places known to have been visited by the aircrew, and said people should avoid gathering in groups to celebrate New Year’s Eve due to the risk of Omicron’s spread."


Originally we could have a very safe environment for us to celebrating the Xmas, which could be proofed by numbers of large activities organised in this Dec ( all cancelled in 2020) until some CX crews ignore the requirements to stay at home recently, thankfully most got fired by CX afterwords.


Total BS...HK is still very safe when it comes to the virus. And Christmas? You mean crowded malls and crowded area in TST and LKF?

The fear mongering in HK is just nuts. Even in mainland people had stop wearing mask and start to crowd tourist attractions again for awhile. Keep living in fear...for all those random virus case in Hk when was the last time somebody die from it? How many people that are tested positive are asymptomtic? For that matter, how many people were tested positive in those stupid "let's close the whole building and test everyone" idiocy?

trex8 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Seems like a good thread to report this:


Ref: https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 2022-01-01

From the outside looking in, things seem tense at CX these days.

you break government rules and put your co workers, ther families and others potentially at risk you face the circumstances. BR fired a pilot for similar and that pilot infected other crew.


And the BR outbreak in Taiwan lasted what? 6 weeks? Taiwan is back to 100% normal after that...

(Now TBH Taiwan quarantine is only slightly less strict than HK).


You mean crowded malls and crowded area in TST and LKF?


Are you living in Hong Kong? I am clearly not meaning shopping mall; TST and LKF, which have resumed to pretty much normal for months. What I mean are the exhibitions aiming to local consumer; count-down parties etc.
 
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hongkongflyer
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Re: Cathay Pacific Suspends 747F and Cargo-Only Pax Flights for 7 Days

Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:25 pm

AA100 wrote:
hongkongflyer wrote:
DeltaMD90 wrote:
Sounds like Hong Kong has a pretty poor COVID policy when all it takes is a single person breaking the rules for it all to fall apart.

And of course it was going to happen. Only a matter of time.

A more sensible policy is to acknowledge human nature and to not go for a plan that has a 0% margin of error.

Hopefully Cathay Pacific won't end up getting punished (even more, one could argue) over this


I don’t think the policy which enable HK to have zero local case for a long period of time is a pool one. At most we only have a <500 cases at one day while there are thousands of cases per day in other countries (adjusted for the difference in population)


You sir, are like a lot of people I am meeting on the street more and more.... you've become completely isolationist and oblivious to the rest of the world. When you watch the news each night, you are reminded that this a "western pandemic" when they show yet again the protests against anti-lockdown. You've completely forgotten that most services and products are imported into HKG. There is only so far choi sum and Chinese originating pork products will feed you or indeed the economy... to keep this on point (aviation), its absolutely vital that aviation be allowed to operate without the duress it currently is under. Most products and goods come by air freight, heck even the vaccines.... All the financial institutions and spin off industries rely so heavily on the free flow of people to do business. That combined is what makes Hong Kong what it is. It is why we can afford to go shopping to buy those luxury handbags flown in from Italy, and dine at 5 Star French restaurants with cheese air freighted in weekly...

Hong Kong will be nothing without its airport. If only Hong Kong people could wake up, and stop favoring this short sighted gain over long term prosperity. Yes it is fabulous to go out and about and be relatively unfearful of catching Covid, but the price of this is too high.

We will lose our airline. We will lose global talent. We will lose global financial status. We will lose the international chefs. We will lose the luxury shops. We will lose our prosperity. We will lose our status as a cargo hub. We will lose the ability to compete against other cities.


That’s why I am not demanding for a complete close down for cross border transportations and not giving exemption to the crews provided that they really follow the isolation restrictions required
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Cathay Pacific Suspends 747F and Cargo-Only Pax Flights for 7 Days

Tue Jan 04, 2022 6:29 pm

hongkongflyer wrote:
Are you living in Hong Kong? I am clearly not meaning shopping mall; TST and LKF, which have resumed to pretty much normal for months. What I mean are the exhibitions aiming to local consumer; count-down parties etc.


I'm not but a bunch of my relatives are (I'm born in HK myself but left eons ago).

As far as the exhibitions go - they basically have a no sample food rule in effect for that industrial fair (IIRC...) awhile back and that was before the current CX "incident". They also stopped the new year firework prior to any "outbreak" also (But there's that countdown concert...). HKgov has always been all over the place and the truth is, a bunch of their actions are still knee-jerk reactions. This includes the new quarantine rules for flight crews as it's some sort of "loophole" (in their word not mine).
 
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spinotter
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Re: Cathay Pacific Suspends 747F and Cargo-Only Pax Flights for 7 Days

Tue Jan 04, 2022 7:08 pm

volauvent wrote:
spinotter wrote:
Zero COVID cannot go on forever if a country aims to be part of the world, but Oz and NZ seemed to keep that goal until recently with the Omicron upsurge.


That's not true.
NZ and Oz maintained a zero-covid stance for a long time, but when it became evident that endemicity was the future, they eventually changed their stance to covid-resilience after mass vaccination, through phases of slow opening.

This was well before Omicron was even a thing.


Thanks for the correction. So do you know if the airline rules in HKG are also applied to all the other airports in the PRC? I am reading through the latest postings so might find out there.
 
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spinotter
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Re: Cathay Pacific Suspends 747F and Cargo-Only Pax Flights for 7 Days

Tue Jan 04, 2022 7:13 pm

Starlionblue wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
Do mainland Chinese carriers have these same restrictions on their cargo flights?


AFAIK, the rules are the same for any carrier. However, Mainland carrier crew are not based in HK, and most likely all they do are turns. They never enter HK.


So are you saying that the restrictions on airlines are the same everywhere in China, but the restrictions in other areas are tighter in Hong Kong than elsewhere in China?
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: Cathay Pacific Suspends 747F and Cargo-Only Pax Flights for 7 Days

Wed Jan 05, 2022 1:29 am

spinotter wrote:
Starlionblue wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
Do mainland Chinese carriers have these same restrictions on their cargo flights?


AFAIK, the rules are the same for any carrier. However, Mainland carrier crew are not based in HK, and most likely all they do are turns. They never enter HK.


So are you saying that the restrictions on airlines are the same everywhere in China, but the restrictions in other areas are tighter in Hong Kong than elsewhere in China?



AFAIK the restrictions are not identical. HK is still considered self-governing and there is a border. Whether the restrictions are tighter on the north or south side of the border I can't answer.


Starlionblue wrote:

I'm making excuses for breaking the rules. I'm pointing out that it's a raw deal for crew either way.


Oops. That should have read "NOT making excuses".
 
KAUSpilot
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Re: Cathay Pacific Suspends 747F and Cargo-Only Pax Flights for 7 Days

Wed Jan 05, 2022 1:37 am

Hong Kongers, and especially the mainland Chinese seem to enjoy punishing the evil gweilo aircrew for doing their jobs! If it's not painfully obvious that Cathay has been scheduled for death by the CCP at this point, open your eyes. Greater Bay and/or a variety of mainland airlines are posed to feast on the caraccas of Cathay. This is also the larger plan for the western airlines - make access to China so restrictive under the guise of "health measures" that only the glorious airlines of the motherland can be granted access to the PRC! Western governments lack the spine to reciprocate, and besides it would be deemed "racist" by the chinese-owned globo-media corps if they did. You can't be racist against the gweilo, they just deserve it!
 
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hongkongflyer
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Re: Cathay Pacific Suspends 747F and Cargo-Only Pax Flights for 7 Days

Wed Jan 05, 2022 3:02 am

It turn out discovering that CX intentionally scheduling crews operating outbound passenger flights to travelling back to HK by cargo flights just to utilize the loophole for the exemption granted to cargo flight crews, plus some of the crews not following the stay home restrictions, which lead to the current spread of COVID in the society. I don't think it have anything to do with HK gov or even PRC gov. I am amazing that many of you, especially those living outside HK, whose home town have record breaking cases everyday can make such criticizes on HK's policies to prevent the spread. Please remember we don't have any lockdown in the last 2 years and basically very successfully in stopping the COVID inside HK.
Last edited by hongkongflyer on Wed Jan 05, 2022 3:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Coal
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Re: Cathay Pacific Suspends 747F and Cargo-Only Pax Flights for 7 Days

Wed Jan 05, 2022 3:08 am

What most people on this thread don't realize is that China's plan for HK is just to be another town within the Greater Bay Area. This whole thing of HK as an int'l business/financial center and transport hub is nonsense in the eyes of the CCP. Sad, but true. CX may end up becoming a feeder for CA (given shareholding) or CZ (given proximity to CAN).
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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Re: Cathay Pacific Suspends 747F and Cargo-Only Pax Flights for 7 Days

Wed Jan 05, 2022 3:36 am

hongkongflyer wrote:
I am amazing that many of you, especially those living outside HK, whose home town have record breaking cases everyday can make such criticizes on HK's policies to prevent the spread. Please remember we don't have any lockdown in the last 2 years and basically very successfully in stopping the COVID inside HK.


Where we have been blessed / lucky enough to have vaccines in the world, we have or are moving away from counting cases to focusing on hospitalisations and deaths.

I for one am not going to celebrate and cheer on insane policies but it is within your country's right (or "freedom") to follow them obviously.

Meanwhile in Hong Kong, as per one SCMP story today: "Hong Kong on edge over first untraceable local Covid-19 case in 3 months" (https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/hea ... ntraceable)
 
jeffrey0032j
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Re: Cathay Pacific Suspends 747F and Cargo-Only Pax Flights for 7 Days

Wed Jan 05, 2022 3:49 am

Coal wrote:
What most people on this thread don't realize is that China's plan for HK is just to be another town within the Greater Bay Area. This whole thing of HK as an int'l business/financial center and transport hub is nonsense in the eyes of the CCP. Sad, but true. CX may end up becoming a feeder for CA (given shareholding) or CZ (given proximity to CAN).

Unfortunately for Hong Kongers, they don't want to know about this. Airlines will follow businesses, and one day they will start leaving Hong Kong for newer financial hubs and manufacturing powerhouses. The viability of VN's non stop to US has been questioned but what if they actually have a point by taking away all the CX transit pax to Vietnam? You don't need much, just 300 pax per day to fill a daily flight, and some of whom would had chosen to fly CX before.

The financial sector, where HK has long overshadowed Singapore is a crucial pillar. If that and other regional HQs shifts to Singapore, or Tokyo, HK is toast and will just become a 2nd grade Chinese city. Again airlines will adjust their services accordingly, and ULR flights made possible by 787s and 350s will make it more difficult for HK to play a part in the transit passengers when this shift happens.

There is only so much people can take this madness before they decide to give up on this increasing isolated and insular city.
Last edited by jeffrey0032j on Wed Jan 05, 2022 3:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
AA100
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Re: Cathay Pacific Suspends 747F and Cargo-Only Pax Flights for 7 Days

Wed Jan 05, 2022 3:51 am

hongkongflyer wrote:
It turn out discovering that CX intentionally scheduling crews operating outbound passenger flights to travelling back to HK by cargo flights just to utilize the loophole for the exemption granted to cargo flight crews, plus some of the crews not following the stay home restrictions, which lead to the current spread of COVID in the society. I don't think it have anything to do with HK gov or even PRC gov. I am amazing that many of you, especially those living outside HK, whose home town have record breaking cases everyday can make such criticizes on HK's policies to prevent the spread. Please remember we don't have any lockdown in the last 2 years and basically very successfully in stopping the COVID inside HK.


Actually - CX hasn't scheduled anything illegally. If it is a loophole, then it isn't a "loophole" rather was accepted by the government as an operating condition. The airline is not stupid enough to schedule crew illegally and the airline did no wrongdoing in scheduling in this way.

CX has followed every order by government and imposed each measure upon its staff including full investigation and firing wrong doing employees. How have you (and most of HK) decided this to be the company's fault? It is the individual who broke the rules fault. It is impossible for a company to keep tabs on all its staffs whereabouts when they are off duty. The airline can only clearly outline rules, policies, procedures, continue to remind crew to follow them, and then investigate / terminate anyone who doesn't. It's basically like saying that the airline would be responsible for reckless driving if one of their employees crashed a car off duty.... It's absurd.

I am really surprised at the state of Hong Kongers animosity towards CX - everyone is completely ignoring the vital service they provide in the currently very difficult and inhumane operating conditions. The pilots can't even go to the doctors (if they've been out of HK in last 21 days). They should be treated more like heros delivering key supplies to the city, reuniting students with families during this pandemic.

And Hong Kong HAS had lockdowns. Yes they have been isolated to shops or buildings, and last a short time, but everyone in HK has a constant fear of being sent to a detention center for 21 days at a moments notice for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, despite testing negative. I'd rather more scientific lockdowns designed to curb spread with the aim of stopping the burden on health systems rather than what we are doing in HK.

HongKongflyer - let me ask you this - It's 2022, approx 2 years into the pandemic. What's your personal exit strategy on this? Will you ever learn to live with the virus? Will you ever fly again? Will you ever tolerate someone flying in from abroad and not quarantining? The record braking cases you talk about in other countries are not leading to mass death or hospitalizations. Yes there is an increase, and an increase risk, but these societies are learning to live with this. If you are healthy you've probably got between 70-90 years on this Earth max. Do you really want to spend 10-15 years closed off? You are mad.
 
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Re: Cathay Pacific Suspends 747F and Cargo-Only Pax Flights for 7 Days

Wed Jan 05, 2022 4:10 am

hongkongflyer wrote:
I am amazing that many of you, especially those living outside HK, whose home town have record breaking cases everyday can make such criticizes on HK's policies to prevent the spread. Please remember we don't have any lockdown in the last 2 years and basically very successfully in stopping the COVID inside HK.

Flame away at how my country (the US) is handling COVID. I have plenty of criticisms myself. Doesn't mean I can have an opinion on Hong Kong's policies.

I'm just saying, when you have a plan and all it takes is a person breaking the rules for all hell to break loose, it's probably not a very good plan.

I'd also argue overall case load vs the collateral damage (ranges from mental health, personal freedoms, businesses, etc) but that's probably getting way off topic. But in this case, CX and I presume a lot of other Hong Kong businesses are suffering from these restrictions. Where is the balance? Total lives saved is probably not a great metric... maybe an unpopular opinion, but we all accept risk to some degree. There is a balance. Otherwise speed limits would be absurdly low, for example. Every 10kph you raise a speed limit will lead to more deaths, but we often accept it for practicality.

That's what a lot of us are saying. Companies like CX are being left to dry... Is it worth it?

I'm not really condoning anyone for breaking a rule like this, but the HK government ultimately failed here. Failed to be realistic. Of course a flight crewmember would eventually break a rule. It's irresponsible for planners to have a plan that falls apart from such a predictable reality
 
Cerecl
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Re: Cathay Pacific Suspends 747F and Cargo-Only Pax Flights for 7 Days

Wed Jan 05, 2022 4:21 am

AA100 wrote:
Do you really want to spend 10-15 years closed off? You are mad.

I think you should refrain from personal attacks just because others have a different perspective.
I get that this is an aviation forum and many members are aviation crews/workers, but people need to understand that out in the wider community, many would happily forego chance to travel in exchange for (relative) safety from COVID-19. I just returned from a country with better control to a country with exploding number of cases. I can tell you it has been weighing on my mind since my arrival, and I am triple vaccinated. My parents, who are not that elderly, would probably love to live in HK at the moment compared to where we are.
Yes Omicron is relatively mild, but people need to come off work, they need to stay away from their loved ones, some of us have some kids who are vulnerable, and there is no guarantee that you won't be sick enough to need hospitalisation. I have seen CTs of patient's lungs months after they recovered from acute COVID-19. You DO NOT want a pair of lungs like that, and it is well worth you giving up 10-15 years of travel if that is your trade-off (unless your livelihood depend on travelling).
 
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Re: Cathay Pacific Suspends 747F and Cargo-Only Pax Flights for 7 Days

Wed Jan 05, 2022 6:00 am

AA100 wrote:
hongkongflyer wrote:
It turn out discovering that CX intentionally scheduling crews operating outbound passenger flights to travelling back to HK by cargo flights just to utilize the loophole for the exemption granted to cargo flight crews, plus some of the crews not following the stay home restrictions, which lead to the current spread of COVID in the society. I don't think it have anything to do with HK gov or even PRC gov. I am amazing that many of you, especially those living outside HK, whose home town have record breaking cases everyday can make such criticizes on HK's policies to prevent the spread. Please remember we don't have any lockdown in the last 2 years and basically very successfully in stopping the COVID inside HK.


Actually - CX hasn't scheduled anything illegally. If it is a loophole, then it isn't a "loophole" rather was accepted by the government as an operating condition. The airline is not stupid enough to schedule crew illegally and the airline did no wrongdoing in scheduling in this way.

CX has followed every order by government and imposed each measure upon its staff including full investigation and firing wrong doing employees. How have you (and most of HK) decided this to be the company's fault? It is the individual who broke the rules fault. It is impossible for a company to keep tabs on all its staffs whereabouts when they are off duty. The airline can only clearly outline rules, policies, procedures, continue to remind crew to follow them, and then investigate / terminate anyone who doesn't. It's basically like saying that the airline would be responsible for reckless driving if one of their employees crashed a car off duty.... It's absurd.

I am really surprised at the state of Hong Kongers animosity towards CX - everyone is completely ignoring the vital service they provide in the currently very difficult and inhumane operating conditions. The pilots can't even go to the doctors (if they've been out of HK in last 21 days). They should be treated more like heros delivering key supplies to the city, reuniting students with families during this pandemic.

And Hong Kong HAS had lockdowns. Yes they have been isolated to shops or buildings, and last a short time, but everyone in HK has a constant fear of being sent to a detention center for 21 days at a moments notice for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, despite testing negative. I'd rather more scientific lockdowns designed to curb spread with the aim of stopping the burden on health systems rather than what we are doing in HK.

HongKongflyer - let me ask you this - It's 2022, approx 2 years into the pandemic. What's your personal exit strategy on this? Will you ever learn to live with the virus? Will you ever fly again? Will you ever tolerate someone flying in from abroad and not quarantining? The record braking cases you talk about in other countries are not leading to mass death or hospitalizations. Yes there is an increase, and an increase risk, but these societies are learning to live with this. If you are healthy you've probably got between 70-90 years on this Earth max. Do you really want to spend 10-15 years closed off? You are mad.


I love and used to travel a lot before COVID (at lease 12 trips per year plus some weekend getaway to near by cities). No travel in the past 2 years is difficult for me too. But I don't want to get the COVID in exchange of having opportunities to go travelling at the current situation.

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