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ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2022

Fri Jan 07, 2022 5:35 am

SLCaviation wrote:
zkojq wrote:
SLCaviation wrote:

SLC? You think that they could do Salt Lake City?


It's a hypothetical.

Would they do SLC over DEN? United is a Star member so I thought that DEN would be the more obvious choice.


DEN for sure over SLC given UA.
 
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zkojq
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2022

Fri Jan 07, 2022 5:43 am

SLCaviation wrote:
zkojq wrote:
SLCaviation wrote:

SLC? You think that they could do Salt Lake City?


It's a hypothetical.

Would they do SLC over DEN? United is a Star member so I thought that DEN would be the more obvious choice.


They wouldn't do it instead of Denver.

Denver's has performance issues though due to altitude. If this wasn't an issue, I do think that the airline could make a success out of flying there. Maybe not as successful as Houston, but I don't think they would have much issue filling a 787-9 at decent yields four or five times a week. Probably even more if it wasn't for the launch of Chicago.
 
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SLCaviation
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2022

Fri Jan 07, 2022 5:45 am

zkojq wrote:
SLCaviation wrote:
zkojq wrote:

It's a hypothetical.

Would they do SLC over DEN? United is a Star member so I thought that DEN would be the more obvious choice.


They wouldn't do it instead of Denver.

Denver's has performance issues though due to altitude. If this wasn't an issue, I do think that the airline could make a success out of flying there. Maybe not as successful as Houston, but I don't think they would have much issue filling a 787-9 at decent yields four or five times a week. Probably even more if it wasn't for the launch of Chicago.


tbh SLC will never get a NZ flight. Zero connections and it just ain’t make sense.
 
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Zkpilot
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2022

Fri Jan 07, 2022 2:25 pm

SLCaviation wrote:
zkojq wrote:
SLCaviation wrote:

SLC? You think that they could do Salt Lake City?


It's a hypothetical.

Would they do SLC over DEN? United is a Star member so I thought that DEN would be the more obvious choice.

Yes DEN is the more likely candidate (UA hub, bigger O&D etc), but SLC certainly does appeal (especially in Winter - with your amazing skiing) and SLC is a hub. I would however rank DEN along with SEA/PDX ahead of SLC as far as NZ is concerned.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2022

Fri Jan 07, 2022 5:22 pm

SLCaviation wrote:
zkojq wrote:
SLCaviation wrote:

SLC? You think that they could do Salt Lake City?


It's a hypothetical.

Would they do SLC over DEN? United is a Star member so I thought that DEN would be the more obvious choice.


While NZ is in *A, it doesn’t stop them from mingling with non *A friends or where they want to go.
For example NZ has partnerships currently with QF, CX, VS…

For years there Japan partner was JL, and even didn’t operate out of the *A terminal in Tokyo.
 
SFwatchTower
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2022

Fri Jan 07, 2022 6:09 pm

What's with ZK-NZC on NZ6004 AKL-SFO for (American Time) Friday Jan 7 2022?

It's out of sync with the usual NZ1008/NZ1007 flights on (American Time) Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday. I see ZK-NZL is slated for the usual NZ1008 flight for Jan 8 2022.
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2022

Fri Jan 07, 2022 8:13 pm

zkncj wrote:
SLCaviation wrote:
zkojq wrote:

It's a hypothetical.

Would they do SLC over DEN? United is a Star member so I thought that DEN would be the more obvious choice.


While NZ is in *A, it doesn’t stop them from mingling with non *A friends or where they want to go.
For example NZ has partnerships currently with QF, CX, VS…

For years there Japan partner was JL, and even didn’t operate out of the *A terminal in Tokyo.


I was just going to say, I think there's a strong misconception around the importance Star Alliance plays here.

DEN would likely be the more attractive option with or without UA. For starters it's significantly busier than SLC but that's partly due to UA transiting passengers through it.

Sort of begs the question - with EWR/ORD/IAH does NZ need another 'gateway' single transit in the US? Probably not!

DEN is arguably the winter sports capital of the US does that equal year round services or a a season service?

If NZ is looking to grow North America, would YYZ, IAD, SEA, ATL, MIA, BOS open new year round markets?
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2022

Fri Jan 07, 2022 8:42 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
Why do we need something with 744 or 777 capacity? Range absolutely or am I misunderstanding you? NZ certainly I don't think at least need even 77W capacity, the 77W is an incredible aircraft where NZ probably only need it for LAX a lot like the 744, however SFO and also IAH which has obviously done very well for them to use a 77W. Some airlines bought the 77W for the range given the operating costs were a lot lower than the 77L where the capacity of the 77L would have been better, the 77L was described by Rob Fyfe as a flying fuel tank, pretty sure it was Fyfe. The sweet spot now has gotten a little smaller again to me, 789/78J/359 around 250/300 seats instead of 350/400 so P2P rather than the hub model with smaller frames. It remains to be seen how the 35K/779 will do but certainly not for NZ, I personally wonder how much they considered the 77X/35K given the 787 can do everything they want, possibly with some restrictions on the longest routes, EWR.

NZ as far back as 2002 if I recall were looking at one type with 300 seats for long haul, guess the 77E although some say NZ could have skipped that and gone to the 77W, I guess the 744s would have left and the 763s stay initially and we still end up with a 77W/789 fleet though so 2 types.

Re SGN sure, all I am saying is the 763 ran for the first season and then retired so leaving the 789 for 2 years. Pity it won't come back Vietnam is beautiful.


I don't want this to become something it's not.

Regarding my comment on the 744/777: Putting into perspective - NZ flew 744's to North America and then the 777's. We've been waiting (not literally) for a MTOW boost on the 787 which would see this type comparably operate on North America. Yes the -9 can compete on range but it lacks capacity. The -10 can reach LAX just but little else. I'm not suggesting we need a like for like replacement.

Connecting it to my original comment around wishing we'd gone A350. The -900 and -1000 which both clearly give NZ what it needs into North America and would give it with a single type and no issues to date.

Is it too big for developing Asian markets. Potentially.

But to challenge that point, has the airline ordered the best aircraft for developing markets vs the best aircraft for it's profitable ones and don't forget the A350 isn't the completely wrong aircraft for developing markets, it's just more level with the 787.

I can't believe we're still quoting Fyfe's comment on the flying fuel tank a decade on. NZ didn't need the 77L and at the time had it's eyes on North American and had ordered a much more fuel efficient aircraft which was only "years away" and capable of reaching NYC.

Re SGN: You've lost context of the point ZKOJQ raised. To recap in post 37 they said "I can't really see SGN, DPS, RAR-LAX etc having been operated with A350s.". In my reply on post 42 I said it was done at a time of incredible growth with an aircraft that owes you nothing. The whole point is the route only came about due to NZ having the equipment essentially sitting around unused during a period of intense growth. If the 763's had or if there was another plan we may never have seen SGN. The fact that it switched to a 789 is a mute point.
 
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SLCaviation
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2022

Fri Jan 07, 2022 10:04 pm

NZ6 wrote:
zkncj wrote:
SLCaviation wrote:
Would they do SLC over DEN? United is a Star member so I thought that DEN would be the more obvious choice.


While NZ is in *A, it doesn’t stop them from mingling with non *A friends or where they want to go.
For example NZ has partnerships currently with QF, CX, VS…

For years there Japan partner was JL, and even didn’t operate out of the *A terminal in Tokyo.


I was just going to say, I think there's a strong misconception around the importance Star Alliance plays here.

DEN would likely be the more attractive option with or without UA. For starters it's significantly busier than SLC but that's partly due to UA transiting passengers through it.

Sort of begs the question - with EWR/ORD/IAH does NZ need another 'gateway' single transit in the US? Probably not!

DEN is arguably the winter sports capital of the US does that equal year round services or a a season service?

If NZ is looking to grow North America, would YYZ, IAD, SEA, ATL, MIA, BOS open new year round markets?


Yeah. Lets be honest. SLC will Never get NZ servicez Not ever.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2022

Fri Jan 07, 2022 10:13 pm

NZ6 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
Why do we need something with 744 or 777 capacity? Range absolutely or am I misunderstanding you? NZ certainly I don't think at least need even 77W capacity, the 77W is an incredible aircraft where NZ probably only need it for LAX a lot like the 744, however SFO and also IAH which has obviously done very well for them to use a 77W. Some airlines bought the 77W for the range given the operating costs were a lot lower than the 77L where the capacity of the 77L would have been better, the 77L was described by Rob Fyfe as a flying fuel tank, pretty sure it was Fyfe. The sweet spot now has gotten a little smaller again to me, 789/78J/359 around 250/300 seats instead of 350/400 so P2P rather than the hub model with smaller frames. It remains to be seen how the 35K/779 will do but certainly not for NZ, I personally wonder how much they considered the 77X/35K given the 787 can do everything they want, possibly with some restrictions on the longest routes, EWR.

NZ as far back as 2002 if I recall were looking at one type with 300 seats for long haul, guess the 77E although some say NZ could have skipped that and gone to the 77W, I guess the 744s would have left and the 763s stay initially and we still end up with a 77W/789 fleet though so 2 types.

Re SGN sure, all I am saying is the 763 ran for the first season and then retired so leaving the 789 for 2 years. Pity it won't come back Vietnam is beautiful.


I don't want this to become something it's not.

Regarding my comment on the 744/777: Putting into perspective - NZ flew 744's to North America and then the 777's. We've been waiting (not literally) for a MTOW boost on the 787 which would see this type comparably operate on North America. Yes the -9 can compete on range but it lacks capacity. The -10 can reach LAX just but little else. I'm not suggesting we need a like for like replacement.

Connecting it to my original comment around wishing we'd gone A350. The -900 and -1000 which both clearly give NZ what it needs into North America and would give it with a single type and no issues to date.

Is it too big for developing Asian markets. Potentially.

But to challenge that point, has the airline ordered the best aircraft for developing markets vs the best aircraft for it's profitable ones and don't forget the A350 isn't the completely wrong aircraft for developing markets, it's just more level with the 787.

I can't believe we're still quoting Fyfe's comment on the flying fuel tank a decade on. NZ didn't need the 77L and at the time had it's eyes on North American and had ordered a much more fuel efficient aircraft which was only "years away" and capable of reaching NYC.

Re SGN: You've lost context of the point ZKOJQ raised. To recap in post 37 they said "I can't really see SGN, DPS, RAR-LAX etc having been operated with A350s.". In my reply on post 42 I said it was done at a time of incredible growth with an aircraft that owes you nothing. The whole point is the route only came about due to NZ having the equipment essentially sitting around unused during a period of intense growth. If the 763's had or if there was another plan we may never have seen SGN. The fact that it switched to a 789 is a mute point.


I get what you mean with the A350, I guess if they had committed to the A350 early on rather than the 787 then NZ would quite likely have gone all A350 long term, they didn't and so here we are. Putting all eggs in 1 basket? I'm not convinced, just completing the vision that was set 2 decades ago for a single long haul type, some things change but NZ's case they have been able to grow successfully over a number of years.

Not sure how true it is re the 77L, it was Norris who ordered the 77E/7E7, did NZ go with the 77E over the 77L because the 77E was more efficient on short haul or under 11/12hrs? I'm not saying they should have ordered it btw as obviously operational cost played a big part in the purchase of 77Es, I had read they looked at ORD when the 77E came, they needed the 77L but not worth it for a single route.

Re SGN, I get what you mean, I think all I was saying was the 789 did go there for 2 years after the 763 retired, the route was dropped it seems as the 789 wasn't considered the right aircraft.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2022

Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:48 pm

NZ6 wrote:
I can 100% assure you SGN would not have happened without the 763. It was a 'gamble' that would not have been taken without it. Did I pay off? Well it remained with the 789 for a while. Will we see it back? Very unlikely.


The A321XLR's will be interesting to watch over the next coupe of years, and see if Airbus can push any more range out of them although at an current typically range of 8500km I don't think they would be able to push much more out of it.

An A321XLR with an typical range of 10,000km in an 20PE / 160Y config, could an ideal fit for NZ's more leisure based routes that used to be operated by the 763ER.

Based on direct routing:
AKL-DPS 6,743km
AKL-SGN 8,854 km
AKL-HNL 7,063 km
AKL-MNL 8,012 km
RAR-LAX 7,516 km
CHC-PER 5,049 km (Probably could be done by current A321NEO's which have 7400km typical range)
 
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Zkpilot
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2022

Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:03 am

NZ6 wrote:
zkncj wrote:
SLCaviation wrote:
Would they do SLC over DEN? United is a Star member so I thought that DEN would be the more obvious choice.


While NZ is in *A, it doesn’t stop them from mingling with non *A friends or where they want to go.
For example NZ has partnerships currently with QF, CX, VS…

For years there Japan partner was JL, and even didn’t operate out of the *A terminal in Tokyo.


I was just going to say, I think there's a strong misconception around the importance Star Alliance plays here.

DEN would likely be the more attractive option with or without UA. For starters it's significantly busier than SLC but that's partly due to UA transiting passengers through it.

Sort of begs the question - with EWR/ORD/IAH does NZ need another 'gateway' single transit in the US? Probably not!

DEN is arguably the winter sports capital of the US does that equal year round services or a a season service?

If NZ is looking to grow North America, would YYZ, IAD, SEA, ATL, MIA, BOS open new year round markets?

YYZ - maybe.
IAD/BOS - no - too far and not enough market that isn’t easily covered by other routes.
ATL/MIA - unlikely.
SEA - likely - much shorter than the other destinations. Is a relatively underserved market and is quite wealthy with a lot of big corporates. It also would take some pressure off YVR (2 hours or so drive).
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2022

Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:48 am

Looks like JQ259 had some issues this morning on departure and had to return to AKL after take off.

Jetstar spokes person, is just labeling it as an “engineering issue”
[url]
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/auckland- ... 7YXKG6A5M/[/url]
 
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Avtur
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2022

Sat Jan 08, 2022 3:17 am

zkncj wrote:
Looks like JQ259 had some issues this morning on departure and had to return to AKL after take off.

Jetstar spokes person, is just labeling it as an “engineering issue”
[url]
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/auckland- ... 7YXKG6A5M/[/url]


Flaps issue. Went back out again as the same flight number at 1345. Aircraft was VH-VGR
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2022

Sat Jan 08, 2022 4:21 am

Zkpilot wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
zkncj wrote:

While NZ is in *A, it doesn’t stop them from mingling with non *A friends or where they want to go.
For example NZ has partnerships currently with QF, CX, VS…

For years there Japan partner was JL, and even didn’t operate out of the *A terminal in Tokyo.


I was just going to say, I think there's a strong misconception around the importance Star Alliance plays here.

DEN would likely be the more attractive option with or without UA. For starters it's significantly busier than SLC but that's partly due to UA transiting passengers through it.

Sort of begs the question - with EWR/ORD/IAH does NZ need another 'gateway' single transit in the US? Probably not!

DEN is arguably the winter sports capital of the US does that equal year round services or a a season service?

If NZ is looking to grow North America, would YYZ, IAD, SEA, ATL, MIA, BOS open new year round markets?

YYZ - maybe.
IAD/BOS - no - too far and not enough market that isn’t easily covered by other routes.
ATL/MIA - unlikely.
SEA - likely - much shorter than the other destinations. Is a relatively underserved market and is quite wealthy with a lot of big corporates. It also would take some pressure off YVR (2 hours or so drive).


Gosh, you put more thought into it than I did lol, I simply listed bigger airports / geographical catchments suggesting alternatives to DEN/SLC.

I think with COVID recovery getting LAX/SFO/IAH/ORD/EWR and YVR back up tp frequency will take some time before we even start to look at new routes which could well be closer to if not beyond 2030
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2022

Sat Jan 08, 2022 4:31 am

zkncj wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
I can 100% assure you SGN would not have happened without the 763. It was a 'gamble' that would not have been taken without it. Did I pay off? Well it remained with the 789 for a while. Will we see it back? Very unlikely.


The A321XLR's will be interesting to watch over the next coupe of years, and see if Airbus can push any more range out of them although at an current typically range of 8500km I don't think they would be able to push much more out of it.

An A321XLR with an typical range of 10,000km in an 20PE / 160Y config, could an ideal fit for NZ's more leisure based routes that used to be operated by the 763ER.

Based on direct routing:
AKL-DPS 6,743km
AKL-SGN 8,854 km
AKL-HNL 7,063 km
AKL-MNL 8,012 km
RAR-LAX 7,516 km
CHC-PER 5,049 km (Probably could be done by current A321NEO's which have 7400km typical range)


I've often found myself thinking the XLR is perfect for NZ. But I keep coming back to - they're all long thin developing routes. If they don't last where do you redeploy.

AKL-DPS: I really hope it comes back post COVID. It'll depend how and when Indonesian recovers. Like I said earlier in this thread it was being switched to a 772 for 2020 and that's with EK doing it daily. My opinion A321XLR would be too small.
AKL-SGN: Perhaps, but very much developing market. will interest 'dry up'? it's largely one directional travel i.e. NZ outbound
AKL-HNL: It's already a two airline route so clearly demand there. Do you want to give an inch to HA ? Perhaps if we looked at alternative Hawaiian Islands (which has been very closely looked at before).
AKL-MNL: I'd agree here
RAR-LAX: It's contract route. Don't go buying equipment just for that unless you have a 20 year deal with a large cancellation fee.
CHC-PER: PER is where I would see this aircraft most suited to NZ.

Dear I say it, does WLG get a look in here, or CHC-HNL etc.

I'm keen to see how it works for QF and where they deploy them.
 
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LamboAston
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2022

Sat Jan 08, 2022 7:59 am

NZ6 wrote:
zkncj wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
I can 100% assure you SGN would not have happened without the 763. It was a 'gamble' that would not have been taken without it. Did I pay off? Well it remained with the 789 for a while. Will we see it back? Very unlikely.


The A321XLR's will be interesting to watch over the next coupe of years, and see if Airbus can push any more range out of them although at an current typically range of 8500km I don't think they would be able to push much more out of it.

An A321XLR with an typical range of 10,000km in an 20PE / 160Y config, could an ideal fit for NZ's more leisure based routes that used to be operated by the 763ER.

Based on direct routing:
AKL-DPS 6,743km
AKL-SGN 8,854 km
AKL-HNL 7,063 km
AKL-MNL 8,012 km
RAR-LAX 7,516 km
CHC-PER 5,049 km (Probably could be done by current A321NEO's which have 7400km typical range)


I've often found myself thinking the XLR is perfect for NZ. But I keep coming back to - they're all long thin developing routes. If they don't last where do you redeploy.

AKL-DPS: I really hope it comes back post COVID. It'll depend how and when Indonesian recovers. Like I said earlier in this thread it was being switched to a 772 for 2020 and that's with EK doing it daily. My opinion A321XLR would be too small.
AKL-SGN: Perhaps, but very much developing market. will interest 'dry up'? it's largely one directional travel i.e. NZ outbound
AKL-HNL: It's already a two airline route so clearly demand there. Do you want to give an inch to HA ? Perhaps if we looked at alternative Hawaiian Islands (which has been very closely looked at before).
AKL-MNL: I'd agree here
RAR-LAX: It's contract route. Don't go buying equipment just for that unless you have a 20 year deal with a large cancellation fee.
CHC-PER: PER is where I would see this aircraft most suited to NZ.

Dear I say it, does WLG get a look in here, or CHC-HNL etc.

I'm keen to see how it works for QF and where they deploy them.

An XLR could still do regular 321 routes if needed as well, its not restricted to routes over 4500km
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 2004
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2022

Sat Jan 08, 2022 9:54 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
Re SGN, I get what you mean, I think all I was saying was the 789 did go there for 2 years after the 763 retired, the route was dropped it seems as the 789 wasn't considered the right aircraft.

Wasn’t the death of the SGN route principally a direct casualty of the serious problems with the 787 that saw so many of them out of service simultaneously?
 
a7ala
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2022

Sat Jan 08, 2022 10:28 am

NZ6 wrote:

Dear I say it, does WLG get a look in here


Good size aircraft for WLG - unfortunately cant take off with MCTOW from runway so range would be limited.
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2022

Sat Jan 08, 2022 5:14 pm

DavidByrne wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
Re SGN, I get what you mean, I think all I was saying was the 789 did go there for 2 years after the 763 retired, the route was dropped it seems as the 789 wasn't considered the right aircraft.

Wasn’t the death of the SGN route principally a direct casualty of the serious problems with the 787 that saw so many of them out of service simultaneously?


Especially when there was up to six 789s grounded at once half the fleet at the time. So many routes had to get trimmed back eg previously a 5 per week route dropped down to 3 per week and all expansion put on hold.
 
Qantas59
Posts: 207
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2022

Sat Jan 08, 2022 6:59 pm

Has there been any update or discussion regarding the future of 777s ZK-OKN, OKO and OKQ recently. Apologies if this has been discussed elsewhere.
Cheers.
 
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LamboAston
Posts: 680
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2022

Sat Jan 08, 2022 9:23 pm

Qantas59 wrote:
Has there been any update or discussion regarding the future of 777s ZK-OKN, OKO and OKQ recently. Apologies if this has been discussed elsewhere.
Cheers.

Expect to see them return to service once the border to Australia is open properly.
 
NZ6
Posts: 2127
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2022

Sat Jan 08, 2022 11:09 pm

DavidByrne wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
Re SGN, I get what you mean, I think all I was saying was the 789 did go there for 2 years after the 763 retired, the route was dropped it seems as the 789 wasn't considered the right aircraft.

Wasn’t the death of the SGN route principally a direct casualty of the serious problems with the 787 that saw so many of them out of service simultaneously?

Not sure if that’s in question or up for dispute??

The topic of SGN came out of the A350 on developing Asian routes.

I simply said we wouldn’t have seen SGN without the 767 so arguably neither the 787 or A350 are a perfect fit for it.

Yes the 787 got moved onto the route when there was no other aircraft left, so clearly it at least meet expectations but was first up to be cut so shows it how it preformed within the network.

I can’t see risky routes like this coming back anytime in the medium term future sadly.
 
NZ6
Posts: 2127
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2022

Sat Jan 08, 2022 11:11 pm

LamboAston wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
zkncj wrote:

The A321XLR's will be interesting to watch over the next coupe of years, and see if Airbus can push any more range out of them although at an current typically range of 8500km I don't think they would be able to push much more out of it.

An A321XLR with an typical range of 10,000km in an 20PE / 160Y config, could an ideal fit for NZ's more leisure based routes that used to be operated by the 763ER.

Based on direct routing:
AKL-DPS 6,743km
AKL-SGN 8,854 km
AKL-HNL 7,063 km
AKL-MNL 8,012 km
RAR-LAX 7,516 km
CHC-PER 5,049 km (Probably could be done by current A321NEO's which have 7400km typical range)


I've often found myself thinking the XLR is perfect for NZ. But I keep coming back to - they're all long thin developing routes. If they don't last where do you redeploy.

AKL-DPS: I really hope it comes back post COVID. It'll depend how and when Indonesian recovers. Like I said earlier in this thread it was being switched to a 772 for 2020 and that's with EK doing it daily. My opinion A321XLR would be too small.
AKL-SGN: Perhaps, but very much developing market. will interest 'dry up'? it's largely one directional travel i.e. NZ outbound
AKL-HNL: It's already a two airline route so clearly demand there. Do you want to give an inch to HA ? Perhaps if we looked at alternative Hawaiian Islands (which has been very closely looked at before).
AKL-MNL: I'd agree here
RAR-LAX: It's contract route. Don't go buying equipment just for that unless you have a 20 year deal with a large cancellation fee.
CHC-PER: PER is where I would see this aircraft most suited to NZ.

Dear I say it, does WLG get a look in here, or CHC-HNL etc.

I'm keen to see how it works for QF and where they deploy them.

An XLR could still do regular 321 routes if needed as well, its not restricted to routes over 4500km


Surely you would need to utilise the aircraft on the longer sectors more often than not to justify the extra weight and maintenance associated with extra fuel tanks fuel lines fuel pumps etc
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2022

Sat Jan 08, 2022 11:51 pm

NZ6 wrote:
LamboAston wrote:
NZ6 wrote:

I've often found myself thinking the XLR is perfect for NZ. But I keep coming back to - they're all long thin developing routes. If they don't last where do you redeploy.

AKL-DPS: I really hope it comes back post COVID. It'll depend how and when Indonesian recovers. Like I said earlier in this thread it was being switched to a 772 for 2020 and that's with EK doing it daily. My opinion A321XLR would be too small.
AKL-SGN: Perhaps, but very much developing market. will interest 'dry up'? it's largely one directional travel i.e. NZ outbound
AKL-HNL: It's already a two airline route so clearly demand there. Do you want to give an inch to HA ? Perhaps if we looked at alternative Hawaiian Islands (which has been very closely looked at before).
AKL-MNL: I'd agree here
RAR-LAX: It's contract route. Don't go buying equipment just for that unless you have a 20 year deal with a large cancellation fee.
CHC-PER: PER is where I would see this aircraft most suited to NZ.

Dear I say it, does WLG get a look in here, or CHC-HNL etc.

I'm keen to see how it works for QF and where they deploy them.

An XLR could still do regular 321 routes if needed as well, its not restricted to routes over 4500km


Surely you would need to utilise the aircraft on the longer sectors more often than not to justify the extra weight and maintenance associated with extra fuel tanks fuel lines fuel pumps etc


You would think so wouldn’t you re using an A321LR fleet mainly on longer routes.

Not a great lot of routes for such an aircraft for NZ imo, ex AKL mainly wide bodies can be used while WLG has a short runway as mentioned so may not be a great use while CHC could do PER but where else? CHC-HNL is getting quite long as is CHC-DPS.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2022

Sat Jan 08, 2022 11:56 pm

NZ6 wrote:
LamboAston wrote:
NZ6 wrote:

I've often found myself thinking the XLR is perfect for NZ. But I keep coming back to - they're all long thin developing routes. If they don't last where do you redeploy.

AKL-DPS: I really hope it comes back post COVID. It'll depend how and when Indonesian recovers. Like I said earlier in this thread it was being switched to a 772 for 2020 and that's with EK doing it daily. My opinion A321XLR would be too small.
AKL-SGN: Perhaps, but very much developing market. will interest 'dry up'? it's largely one directional travel i.e. NZ outbound
AKL-HNL: It's already a two airline route so clearly demand there. Do you want to give an inch to HA ? Perhaps if we looked at alternative Hawaiian Islands (which has been very closely looked at before).
AKL-MNL: I'd agree here
RAR-LAX: It's contract route. Don't go buying equipment just for that unless you have a 20 year deal with a large cancellation fee.
CHC-PER: PER is where I would see this aircraft most suited to NZ.

Dear I say it, does WLG get a look in here, or CHC-HNL etc.

I'm keen to see how it works for QF and where they deploy them.

An XLR could still do regular 321 routes if needed as well, its not restricted to routes over 4500km


Surely you would need to utilise the aircraft on the longer sectors more often than not to justify the extra weight and maintenance associated with extra fuel tanks fuel lines fuel pumps etc


That is we’re an 10,000km range XLR would be handy, with opening new routes ex CHC/WLG (Wellington might be debate able with runway length).

For example ex CHC you could make the likes of SIN non-stop.
 
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LamboAston
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2022

Sun Jan 09, 2022 5:03 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
LamboAston wrote:
An XLR could still do regular 321 routes if needed as well, its not restricted to routes over 4500km


Surely you would need to utilise the aircraft on the longer sectors more often than not to justify the extra weight and maintenance associated with extra fuel tanks fuel lines fuel pumps etc


You would think so wouldn’t you re using an A321LR fleet mainly on longer routes.

Not a great lot of routes for such an aircraft for NZ imo, ex AKL mainly wide bodies can be used while WLG has a short runway as mentioned so may not be a great use while CHC could do PER but where else? CHC-HNL is getting quite long as is CHC-DPS.

I'm not saying to use it like a regular 321, just that if needed it could operate a few shorter sectors between long ones.
 
NZ321
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2022

Sun Jan 09, 2022 6:18 am

Zkpilot wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
zkncj wrote:

While NZ is in *A, it doesn’t stop them from mingling with non *A friends or where they want to go.
For example NZ has partnerships currently with QF, CX, VS…

For years there Japan partner was JL, and even didn’t operate out of the *A terminal in Tokyo.


I was just going to say, I think there's a strong misconception around the importance Star Alliance plays here.

DEN would likely be the more attractive option with or without UA. For starters it's significantly busier than SLC but that's partly due to UA transiting passengers through it.

Sort of begs the question - with EWR/ORD/IAH does NZ need another 'gateway' single transit in the US? Probably not!

DEN is arguably the winter sports capital of the US does that equal year round services or a a season service?

If NZ is looking to grow North America, would YYZ, IAD, SEA, ATL, MIA, BOS open new year round markets?

YYZ - maybe.
IAD/BOS - no - too far and not enough market that isn’t easily covered by other routes.
ATL/MIA - unlikely.
SEA - likely - much shorter than the other destinations. Is a relatively underserved market and is quite wealthy with a lot of big corporates. It also would take some pressure off YVR (2 hours or so drive).


In sync with my thoughts too; YYZ is potentially more attractive than IAD/BOS if EWR launches; not sure NZ needs another destination so far East in North America, but if it does, YYZ would be my pick.

SEA is the other stand out opportunity from my p.o.v; it may well be that it's close to YVR but they are, of course, in different countries and that presents additional logistics.

That's assuming there is a case for further expansion / diversification of routes to North America.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2022

Sun Jan 09, 2022 6:28 am

LamboAston wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
NZ6 wrote:

Surely you would need to utilise the aircraft on the longer sectors more often than not to justify the extra weight and maintenance associated with extra fuel tanks fuel lines fuel pumps etc


You would think so wouldn’t you re using an A321LR fleet mainly on longer routes.

Not a great lot of routes for such an aircraft for NZ imo, ex AKL mainly wide bodies can be used while WLG has a short runway as mentioned so may not be a great use while CHC could do PER but where else? CHC-HNL is getting quite long as is CHC-DPS.

I'm not saying to use it like a regular 321, just that if needed it could operate a few shorter sectors between long ones.



Sure, my opinion and it is just that is that NZ don’t have many routes that need an A321LR or XLR to make it worth them purchasing a sub fleet of them.
 
SFwatchTower
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2022

Sun Jan 09, 2022 6:26 pm

SFwatchTower wrote:
What's with ZK-NZC on NZ6004 AKL-SFO for (American Time) Friday Jan 7 2022?

It's out of sync with the usual NZ1008/NZ1007 flights on (American Time) Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday. I see ZK-NZL is slated for the usual NZ1008 flight for Jan 8 2022.



Alright so maybe this was for an Antarctica charter like last time in September viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1464367&hilit=new+zealand+September+2021&start=100#p22968941

It looks like the planes swapped routes. ZK-NZC flew NZ1007 and ZK-NZL is NZ1949 SFO-CHC. Neat!
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2022

Sun Jan 09, 2022 11:19 pm

SFwatchTower wrote:
SFwatchTower wrote:
What's with ZK-NZC on NZ6004 AKL-SFO for (American Time) Friday Jan 7 2022?

It's out of sync with the usual NZ1008/NZ1007 flights on (American Time) Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday. I see ZK-NZL is slated for the usual NZ1008 flight for Jan 8 2022.



Alright so maybe this was for an Antarctica charter like last time in September viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1464367&hilit=new+zealand+September+2021&start=100#p22968941

It looks like the planes swapped routes. ZK-NZC flew NZ1007 and ZK-NZL is NZ1949 SFO-CHC. Neat!


Yes I noticed that flight too. Unusual to see SFO CHC flying in might be Antarctic bound pax. There was surprisingly a lot of NZ 789 flights in the early hours this morning ten all up.
On flight radar I counted 6 flying between NZ and North America and another 4 flying to and from Asia.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2022

Mon Jan 10, 2022 3:45 am

NZ516 wrote:
SFwatchTower wrote:
SFwatchTower wrote:
What's with ZK-NZC on NZ6004 AKL-SFO for (American Time) Friday Jan 7 2022?

It's out of sync with the usual NZ1008/NZ1007 flights on (American Time) Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday. I see ZK-NZL is slated for the usual NZ1008 flight for Jan 8 2022.



Alright so maybe this was for an Antarctica charter like last time in September viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1464367&hilit=new+zealand+September+2021&start=100#p22968941

It looks like the planes swapped routes. ZK-NZC flew NZ1007 and ZK-NZL is NZ1949 SFO-CHC. Neat!


Yes I noticed that flight too. Unusual to see SFO CHC flying in might be Antarctic bound pax. There was surprisingly a lot of NZ 789 flights in the early hours this morning ten all up.
On flight radar I counted 6 flying between NZ and North America and another 4 flying to and from Asia.


NZ has done an regular cargo flights to the USA from CHC over the past year too.

Somedays NZ must really wish that an cheap BCF option for the 789 would come to the market, they seem to be the dreamliner cargo professionals at the moment.
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2022

Mon Jan 10, 2022 4:28 am

NZ321 wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
NZ6 wrote:

I was just going to say, I think there's a strong misconception around the importance Star Alliance plays here.

DEN would likely be the more attractive option with or without UA. For starters it's significantly busier than SLC but that's partly due to UA transiting passengers through it.

Sort of begs the question - with EWR/ORD/IAH does NZ need another 'gateway' single transit in the US? Probably not!

DEN is arguably the winter sports capital of the US does that equal year round services or a a season service?

If NZ is looking to grow North America, would YYZ, IAD, SEA, ATL, MIA, BOS open new year round markets?

YYZ - maybe.
IAD/BOS - no - too far and not enough market that isn’t easily covered by other routes.
ATL/MIA - unlikely.
SEA - likely - much shorter than the other destinations. Is a relatively underserved market and is quite wealthy with a lot of big corporates. It also would take some pressure off YVR (2 hours or so drive).


In sync with my thoughts too; YYZ is potentially more attractive than IAD/BOS if EWR launches; not sure NZ needs another destination so far East in North America, but if it does, YYZ would be my pick.

SEA is the other stand out opportunity from my p.o.v; it may well be that it's close to YVR but they are, of course, in different countries and that presents additional logistics.

That's assuming there is a case for further expansion / diversification of routes to North America.


It amazes me, how a throw away comment on a semi unrelated point turns into a realistic debate over new routes given we've not even commenced the one we announced 3 years ago yet and still have a closed border lol.
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2022

Mon Jan 10, 2022 6:17 am

NZ6 wrote:
It amazes me, how a throw away comment on a semi unrelated point turns into a realistic debate over new routes given we've not even commenced the one we announced 3 years ago yet and still have a closed border lol.

Not only that but people are proposing myriad new routes when we still have no idea at all what the demand level will be post-pandemic. While avgeeks and airlines are boosting the future prospects, the read I get from my friends, colleagues and family is that there is a LOT of caution about travel still very prevalent - even travel to Australia (though that’s understandable given the current covid situation there). When I mention my own future travel aspirations I get very negative feedback, suggesting I’m foolhardy or worse to even be thinking about it. I’d love to see some of these ideas come to fruition but I’m absolutely not holding my breath!
 
GW54
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2022

Mon Jan 10, 2022 7:12 am

With the number of domestic sectors being operated by NEO's currently it is highly likely that you will have WIFI available, Is anyone aware if there is a plan to equip the CEO's with WIFI?
 
SFwatchTower
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2022

Mon Jan 10, 2022 6:22 pm

zkncj wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
SFwatchTower wrote:


Alright so maybe this was for an Antarctica charter like last time in September viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1464367&hilit=new+zealand+September+2021&start=100#p22968941

It looks like the planes swapped routes. ZK-NZC flew NZ1007 and ZK-NZL is NZ1949 SFO-CHC. Neat!


Yes I noticed that flight too. Unusual to see SFO CHC flying in might be Antarctic bound pax. There was surprisingly a lot of NZ 789 flights in the early hours this morning ten all up.
On flight radar I counted 6 flying between NZ and North America and another 4 flying to and from Asia.


NZ has done an regular cargo flights to the USA from CHC over the past year too.

Somedays NZ must really wish that an cheap BCF option for the 789 would come to the market, they seem to be the dreamliner cargo professionals at the moment.


Perhaps! I took a look at the air tonnage imported/exported on the transport ministry's website [1]. While the numbers for 2021 aren't published yet, the notable markets with biggest impact from the pandemic are Asia and Australia/Pacific markets from before the pandemic to now. It's just one data point to go by and not nearly enough information (e.g. economic conditions, monetary value of goods by tonnage/volume, is this loss partly attributed to the need for more cargo capacity on Aus/Pac/Asia routes) to go off of but perhaps a BCF - not necessarily 747, but even something smaller - might be adequate to recoup the lost tonnage.

I think the 2020 numbers from [1] might suggest that the MIAC has served NZ well (ANZ + other air carriers), especially the Americas, Europe, and the rest of the world markets. Hindsight is 2020 but would it have been helpful if the MIAC helped accelerate 1 or 2 ANZ 787 orders to facilitate cargo ops or even lease 1 or 2 to serve these markets? I'm sure the lease market was dirt cheap a for 2020-21.

[1] - https://www.transport.govt.nz/statistic ... lement-470
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2022

Mon Jan 10, 2022 6:51 pm

zkncj wrote:
NZ has done an regular cargo flights to the USA from CHC over the past year too.

Somedays NZ must really wish that an cheap BCF option for the 789 would come to the market, they seem to be the dreamliner cargo professionals at the moment.


I'm just hoping with the strong cargo flights ex CHC we've seen and if we see a strong return to South Island tourism CHC-LAX might be given another shot.
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2022

Mon Jan 10, 2022 7:23 pm

SFwatchTower wrote:
zkncj wrote:
NZ516 wrote:

Yes I noticed that flight too. Unusual to see SFO CHC flying in might be Antarctic bound pax. There was surprisingly a lot of NZ 789 flights in the early hours this morning ten all up.
On flight radar I counted 6 flying between NZ and North America and another 4 flying to and from Asia.


NZ has done an regular cargo flights to the USA from CHC over the past year too.

Somedays NZ must really wish that an cheap BCF option for the 789 would come to the market, they seem to be the dreamliner cargo professionals at the moment.


Perhaps! I took a look at the air tonnage imported/exported on the transport ministry's website [1]. While the numbers for 2021 aren't published yet, the notable markets with biggest impact from the pandemic are Asia and Australia/Pacific markets from before the pandemic to now. It's just one data point to go by and not nearly enough information (e.g. economic conditions, monetary value of goods by tonnage/volume, is this loss partly attributed to the need for more cargo capacity on Aus/Pac/Asia routes) to go off of but perhaps a BCF - not necessarily 747, but even something smaller - might be adequate to recoup the lost tonnage.

I think the 2020 numbers from [1] might suggest that the MIAC has served NZ well (ANZ + other air carriers), especially the Americas, Europe, and the rest of the world markets. Hindsight is 2020 but would it have been helpful if the MIAC helped accelerate 1 or 2 ANZ 787 orders to facilitate cargo ops or even lease 1 or 2 to serve these markets? I'm sure the lease market was dirt cheap a for 2020-21.

[1] - https://www.transport.govt.nz/statistic ... lement-470


To be honest, we all know freight logistics is a nightmare. It's a global issue. We're struggling to buy everyday goods as importers can't get stuff into the country. That's both via sea and air.

So the numbers will just confirm what we see every day.

What's probably hard to see if where high value cargo is still being moved
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2022

Mon Jan 10, 2022 7:50 pm

News is out now on suggesting Boeing may increase the range of the 787-9 by 750-800NM and the 787-10 by 1000NM.


https://leehamnews.com/2022/01/05/hotr- ... the-787-9/

This will be a huge benefit for Air NZ operations based on a all 787 fleet. As with the planned retirement of the 77W in 5 years time.
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2022

Mon Jan 10, 2022 7:57 pm

DavidByrne wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
It amazes me, how a throw away comment on a semi unrelated point turns into a realistic debate over new routes given we've not even commenced the one we announced 3 years ago yet and still have a closed border lol.

Not only that but people are proposing myriad new routes when we still have no idea at all what the demand level will be post-pandemic. While avgeeks and airlines are boosting the future prospects, the read I get from my friends, colleagues and family is that there is a LOT of caution about travel still very prevalent - even travel to Australia (though that’s understandable given the current covid situation there). When I mention my own future travel aspirations I get very negative feedback, suggesting I’m foolhardy or worse to even be thinking about it. I’d love to see some of these ideas come to fruition but I’m absolutely not holding my breath!


Just on the later point...

While you're absolutely right that we don't know what post pandemic looks like. The correct question is more around what the recovery curve looks like not if there'll be one.

Travel will return and eventually it'll return to higher levels than before but how and when that happen is the real question..

I could comment on similar feedback / thoughts / feelings from my circles. But change the topic to going to Australia in 5 years and you get the "yeah of course" type response. So it's not a question of IF it's a question of WHEN...

Like I said last week, we're feed images of eye watering numbers out of Australia and have epidemiologists telling us nightly that we should almost be living in a level 4 type state of caution so it's understandable people feel the way they do. I wouldn't head over the Tasman right now, not just because of their current situation but also because I have no confidence that the border will remain open for me to return should the situation change. How much does that play in peoples minds.

We were set to start reconnecting to the world next week, now that's the end of Feb at best but it's coming.

It'll be interesting to see what happens over the next few months, I get a real sense of COVID fatigue even among those who aren't "avgeeks" or airline/travel minded.

I think we've got two choices re the border. Keep it closed and wait COVID out which could be several more years or just move forward with our plan and accept vaccinations and public health measures will keep us safe enough.

Let's not forget, we have an election in 2023 and Labour wont want the Border / MIQ debacle to be fresh in our minds.
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2022

Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:42 pm

NZ516 wrote:
News is out now on suggesting Boeing may increase the range of the 787-9 by 750-800NM and the 787-10 by 1000NM.


https://leehamnews.com/2022/01/05/hotr- ... the-787-9/

This will be a huge benefit for Air NZ operations based on a all 787 fleet. As with the planned retirement of the 77W in 5 years time.


When you say benefit, you mean it'll potentially meet the contractual obligations of the order?

NZ hasn't ordered the current -10 they've ordered them on the basis of undisclosed performance improvements.

The details of what NZ/Boeing have agreed on are very confidential. We do know it's to better match that of the 772 so it can be deployed on similar routes.

I still stand by my A350 position, these improvements are only just matching the A350!
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2022

Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:50 pm

NZ6 wrote:
Travel will return and eventually it'll return to higher levels than before but how and when that happen is the real question.

I think this is the key point on which we may not see eye to eye. I’m sure that traffic will recover, yes, but I’m not convinced it will eventually surpass 2019 levels. We have yet to see the impact of climate change on the ethical desirability of long-haul travel, but I believe it will start to become a factor. Already I get stick for my travel intentions from some of my friends on environmental grounds, and I the current crop of kids and teenagers are sooo much more eco-conscious than my generation. As an avgeek, I’d love to be wrong, but as someone concerned about the future of the planet I fear I may be right.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2022

Tue Jan 11, 2022 12:20 am

GW54 wrote:
With the number of domestic sectors being operated by NEO's currently it is highly likely that you will have WIFI available, Is anyone aware if there is a plan to equip the CEO's with WIFI?


ZQN is the only route, that you have an 50/50 chance of getting an A321N on, typically on an busy day 2-4 321N’s are assigned to ZQN.

The 320Ns only do the odd domestic flight, which seems like they are using them just to keep them ‘active’ or as operational spares.

The 17x a320CEO’s are still doing the majority of AKL-WLG/CHC flights.

The wifi coverage on domestic often has tail fail issues on South Bound sectors. The speed seems to be greatly reduced too? That bit could be NZ change the plan they are on, on the Tasman pre-covid you could use Netflix’s on the NEO’s.
 
aerojoe
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2022

Tue Jan 11, 2022 3:28 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
LamboAston wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:

You would think so wouldn’t you re using an A321LR fleet mainly on longer routes.

Not a great lot of routes for such an aircraft for NZ imo, ex AKL mainly wide bodies can be used while WLG has a short runway as mentioned so may not be a great use while CHC could do PER but where else? CHC-HNL is getting quite long as is CHC-DPS.

I'm not saying to use it like a regular 321, just that if needed it could operate a few shorter sectors between long ones.



Sure, my opinion and it is just that is that NZ don’t have many routes that need an A321LR or XLR to make it worth them purchasing a sub fleet of them.


My own view is similar. From what others have reported over time NZ has a strong reliance on belly cargo and so how would the A321 LR/XLR fir with this model on a route like CHC/PER?
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2022

Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:05 am

aerojoe wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
LamboAston wrote:
I'm not saying to use it like a regular 321, just that if needed it could operate a few shorter sectors between long ones.



Sure, my opinion and it is just that is that NZ don’t have many routes that need an A321LR or XLR to make it worth them purchasing a sub fleet of them.


My own view is similar. From what others have reported over time NZ has a strong reliance on belly cargo and so how would the A321 LR/XLR fir with this model on a route like CHC/PER?


If you just take CHC-PER it is a seasonal 2x weekly 789, an A321LR might take a little freight that could be spread over 4-5 weekly services and allow a year round service with a few 2-3 weekly in winter.

Realistically most of the routes would be ex AKL but places like DPS/HNL did well with widebodies and ex CHC may be a little far while ex AKL I don't think myself there are that many other possibilities, WLG is restricted by a short runway.
 
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Zkpilot
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2022

Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:40 am

DavidByrne wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
It amazes me, how a throw away comment on a semi unrelated point turns into a realistic debate over new routes given we've not even commenced the one we announced 3 years ago yet and still have a closed border lol.

Not only that but people are proposing myriad new routes when we still have no idea at all what the demand level will be post-pandemic. While avgeeks and airlines are boosting the future prospects, the read I get from my friends, colleagues and family is that there is a LOT of caution about travel still very prevalent - even travel to Australia (though that’s understandable given the current covid situation there). When I mention my own future travel aspirations I get very negative feedback, suggesting I’m foolhardy or worse to even be thinking about it. I’d love to see some of these ideas come to fruition but I’m absolutely not holding my breath!

Oh stop being such a negative Nancy as always David! We are talking about potential future routes once demand comes back - whenever that may be. Nobody is suggesting that they look at these routes before resuming previous North America routes… :roll:
 
anstar
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2022

Tue Jan 11, 2022 8:49 am

NZ6 wrote:

Like I said last week, we're feed images of eye watering numbers out of Australia and have epidemiologists telling us nightly that we should almost be living in a level 4 type state of caution so it's understandable people feel the way they do. I wouldn't head over the Tasman right now, not just because of their current situation but also because I have no confidence that the border will remain open for me to return should the situation change. How much does that play in peoples minds.



Sure case numbers are high and there are some supply chain issues due to the excessive requirement for close contacts to isolate causing staff shortages, but the bulk of infections are asymptomatic (ie they don't even realise they have it) or are mild. Things are open and life is going on. Its not this big scary place to visit.

Borders will remain open and lockdowns are over. Same can't be said for NZ... I'd be more scared going to NZ and having the rules change than vis versa.
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2022

Tue Jan 11, 2022 9:18 am

Zkpilot wrote:
Oh stop being such a negative Nancy as always David! We are talking about potential future routes once demand comes back - whenever that may be. Nobody is suggesting that they look at these routes before resuming previous North America routes… :roll:

Haha - seems like realism is not in vogue on this forum!
 
NZ321
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2022

Tue Jan 11, 2022 11:00 am

More to the point folks, can someone please confirm that SQ 297 (A350) is scheduled to arrive CHC 4 days a week at 1420, and that the plane only departs the following day at 1200 (i.e, a 21 hr 40 minute layover)? That's one hell of a long time on the ground. Anybody have any details on this? Does the inbound crew take the aircraft back the following day? This is not the pattern with AKL AFAIK. Curious to understand this better.
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2022

Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:56 pm

anstar wrote:
NZ6 wrote:

Like I said last week, we're feed images of eye watering numbers out of Australia and have epidemiologists telling us nightly that we should almost be living in a level 4 type state of caution so it's understandable people feel the way they do. I wouldn't head over the Tasman right now, not just because of their current situation but also because I have no confidence that the border will remain open for me to return should the situation change. How much does that play in peoples minds.



Sure case numbers are high and there are some supply chain issues due to the excessive requirement for close contacts to isolate causing staff shortages, but the bulk of infections are asymptomatic (ie they don't even realise they have it) or are mild. Things are open and life is going on. Its not this big scary place to visit.

Borders will remain open and lockdowns are over. Same can't be said for NZ... I'd be more scared going to NZ and having the rules change than vis versa.


I'm talking about our border here should I need to come home. It's good to see Australia are moving forward.

It plays in the back of our minds still - will we have another lockdown? will we go to traffic light red? will the border open? will it close again if the situation changes? would i get MIQ spot? etc etc

One could almost argue Kiwis suffer from more anxiety around our political response than from any potential medical one.

Ultimately for many people like myself to head offshore - I'd need some reassurance the border being a line of defense is no more.

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