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Fliplot
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Re: Irish 1/22: Brave new beginnings

Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:36 pm

And that €90 fare is a net amount after PSO considerations. Quite silly really
 
ckpaeg
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:37 pm

AA / EI Codeshare announcement

Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:28 pm

https://news.aa.com/news/news-details/2 ... fault.aspx

AA/EI Codeshare announcement. Not a lot here to get excited about, but it’s a start.
 
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AmricanShamrok
Posts: 2396
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 2:03 pm

Re: Irish 1/22: Brave new beginnings

Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:42 pm

KIRFlyer wrote:
EIBPI wrote:
ClassicLover wrote:

Presumably, Ryanair took it over when Stobart went under, and I can't imagine they got it as a permanent route - same as Amapola Flyg.

I guess we shall see.


There cannot be a Kerry PSO unless Ryanair ceases to operate the route on normal commercial terms (or if we are lucky at least announces it will stop operating the route).

Amapola Flyg was a different situation. They were operating Donegal under an interim PSO contract.


Fliplot wrote:
Probably used the EI connection and past EI Regional services. Surely the DUB HUB would also have had a part to play? I suspect KIR would welcome the EI connection back too.


I have always wondered what the logic is behind FR operating this flight. They most certainly are not making a profit! What is MOL's ulterior motive? I wonder with them reducing the flight to once daily for the remainder of January and February, is this the lead in to FR announcing they are pulling the route for such and such a reason? I agree Emerald will be much better suited to the route, although the amazingly cheap fares by FR will be greatly missed - €30/40 return compared to €90 return with EIR.

Agreed. I got a €25 return for the end of the month. The PSO pricing does seem a bit bizarre. When Aer Arann operated the route before the Aer Lingus Regional transition in the late 2000s, return fares rarely deviated from the standard €69.98 return. When they started operating for EI, they jumped to about €90 and remained there (maybe EI had a say on what they were charging?).

In saying that, the KIR-DUB-USA connections with EI were so handy and seamless with the right timings. The current FR timings don't allow for many return USA connections unfortunately.
 
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OA260
Posts: 26188
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 1/22: Brave new beginnings

Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:39 pm

Hopefully it will indeed commence back from March .


Cardiff Airport confirms flights to Belfast are suspended just months after they were reintroduced

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/whats-on/ ... 696761.amp


--

175,000 Travellers Passed Through Ireland West Airport Knock In 2021

https://www.hospitalityireland.com/amp/ ... 021-159244

The figures could have been worse at least they were more compared to 2020. This Summer should be a real boost for them if nothing changes drastically.
 
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alancostello
Posts: 340
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Re: AA / EI Codeshare announcement

Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:41 pm

ckpaeg wrote:
https://news.aa.com/news/news-details/2022/American-Airlines-and-Aer-Lingus-Launch-New-Codeshare-Agreement-Offering-Customers-More-Choices-for-Travel-Between-the-US-and-Europe-NET-ALP-01/default.aspx

AA/EI Codeshare announcement. Not a lot here to get excited about, but it’s a start.


I think them saying “ Further expansion of the codeshare is also planned in the near future.” is something to get excited about, especially if it involves the transatlantic routes. I doubt United are happy however, I’m sure that partnership’s days are numbered.
 
Ire2008
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Re: Irish 1/22: Brave new beginnings

Tue Jan 11, 2022 8:21 pm

My assumptions for FR doing the KIR flights is that they are using the route for crew training/sectors for aircraft rotation. Id assume theyll drop it as soon as it suits them! Id say theyre using the 20/30/40 pax a flight to offset some operational costs
 
JAmie2k9
Posts: 2243
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:15 pm

Re: Irish 1/22: Brave new beginnings

Tue Jan 11, 2022 11:00 pm

AmricanShamrok wrote:
KIRFlyer wrote:
EIBPI wrote:

There cannot be a Kerry PSO unless Ryanair ceases to operate the route on normal commercial terms (or if we are lucky at least announces it will stop operating the route).

Amapola Flyg was a different situation. They were operating Donegal under an interim PSO contract.


Fliplot wrote:
Probably used the EI connection and past EI Regional services. Surely the DUB HUB would also have had a part to play? I suspect KIR would welcome the EI connection back too.


I have always wondered what the logic is behind FR operating this flight. They most certainly are not making a profit! What is MOL's ulterior motive? I wonder with them reducing the flight to once daily for the remainder of January and February, is this the lead in to FR announcing they are pulling the route for such and such a reason? I agree Emerald will be much better suited to the route, although the amazingly cheap fares by FR will be greatly missed - €30/40 return compared to €90 return with EIR.

Agreed. I got a €25 return for the end of the month. The PSO pricing does seem a bit bizarre. When Aer Arann operated the route before the Aer Lingus Regional transition in the late 2000s, return fares rarely deviated from the standard €69.98 return. When they started operating for EI, they jumped to about €90 and remained there (maybe EI had a say on what they were charging?).

In saying that, the KIR-DUB-USA connections with EI were so handy and seamless with the right timings. The current FR timings don't allow for many return USA connections unfortunately.


PSO value has reduced since the 2000s and the current conditions are 80% capacity cannot be priced at more than €80 each way. It used to be €100 cap on fares.
 
onwFan
Posts: 775
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:02 am

Re: AA / EI Codeshare announcement

Tue Jan 11, 2022 11:38 pm

ckpaeg wrote:
https://news.aa.com/news/news-details/2022/American-Airlines-and-Aer-Lingus-Launch-New-Codeshare-Agreement-Offering-Customers-More-Choices-for-Travel-Between-the-US-and-Europe-NET-ALP-01/default.aspx

AA/EI Codeshare announcement. Not a lot here to get excited about, but it’s a start.

Does anyone have any idea why this is taking so much long to develop? Is it just technical difficulties with the EI systems? Or is it contractual agreements with UA? They have been part of IAG for years now. From a US frequent flier perspective, it is all a mess right now. They will offer codeshares with AA/B6 and all of their flights will be in JV with AA; but you cannot earn/burn miles on them. If you want to earn miles, you have to do it with UA; but then the codeshares are winding down… Not sure why there is no streamlining at all.
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 1/22: Brave new beginnings

Wed Jan 12, 2022 9:59 am

Some positive news from Avolon :


Rising travel demand sparks Avolon’s busiest three months
Irish aircraft lessor says challenges ahead this year but market fundamentally strong

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/tra ... -1.4772984
 
iRISH251
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Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 3:56 am

Re: Irish 1/22: Brave new beginnings

Wed Jan 12, 2022 11:56 am

Ire2008 wrote:
My assumptions for FR doing the KIR flights is that they are using the route for crew training/sectors for aircraft rotation. Id assume theyll drop it as soon as it suits them! Id say theyre using the 20/30/40 pax a flight to offset some operational costs


That doesn't make a lot of sense. The aircraft just do a DUB-KIR-DUB rotation in the midst of a lot of other route flying around Europe. Keeping another operator from getting onto the route, especially with a State subsidy, seems to me a more likely strategy. In the scheme of things for Ryanair, the operation of this route at a loss doesn't amount to much, I would think.
 
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OA260
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Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 1/22: Brave new beginnings

Wed Jan 12, 2022 1:59 pm

Increase year on year at Dublin Airport


Dublin Airport Passenger Numbers Up 14% Copared To Last Year

Dublin Airport has released its traffic figures for 2021 which reveal that passenger numbers at the Airport increased by 14% to 8.46 million, when compared with 2020.

https://www.dublinairport.com/latest-ne ... -last-year


It will be interesting to see where we are this time next year.
 
Clydenairways
Posts: 1450
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 8:27 am

Re: Irish 1/22: Brave new beginnings

Wed Jan 12, 2022 3:26 pm

iRISH251 wrote:
Ire2008 wrote:
My assumptions for FR doing the KIR flights is that they are using the route for crew training/sectors for aircraft rotation. Id assume theyll drop it as soon as it suits them! Id say theyre using the 20/30/40 pax a flight to offset some operational costs


That doesn't make a lot of sense. The aircraft just do a DUB-KIR-DUB rotation in the midst of a lot of other route flying around Europe. Keeping another operator from getting onto the route, especially with a State subsidy, seems to me a more likely strategy. In the scheme of things for Ryanair, the operation of this route at a loss doesn't amount to much, I would think.


I expect this was a way for Ryanair to keep some extra activity during COVID in order to keep a few crews current and avoid one storage aircraft. I suspect Ryanair will drop it when they need too and it will become a PSO again.
 
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IrishTexan
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Re: Irish 1/22: Brave new beginnings

Wed Jan 12, 2022 4:28 pm

Flew DUB-PHL on AA yesterday (Jan.11) and happy to report that 51st&Green was open for customers again as of yesterday.
Asked about lounge at check-in and was told it was still closed due to staff shortages, but saw the lounge lights on as I headed towards gate. Very, very few passengers inside. Lounge gatekeepers were disappointed that AA check in staff were unaware of reopening and made some calls on the spot!
First time in that particular lounge and was impressed. Food selection and staff excellent.
 
EIBPI
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Re: Irish 1/22: Brave new beginnings

Wed Jan 12, 2022 7:43 pm

Ire2008 wrote:
My assumptions for FR doing the KIR flights is that they are using the route for crew training/sectors for aircraft rotation. Id assume theyll drop it as soon as it suits them! Id say theyre using the 20/30/40 pax a flight to offset some operational costs


FR's KIR flights have nothing at all to do with crew training, but rather to gain a bit of free publicity on the Irish market. Anyone observing Irish aviation (and the airline's other attempts at domestic operations in Europe including KIR more than a decade ago) would know that this cannot last. To be honest, I am surprised they haven't already pulled the route blaming the airport / government / COVID / something else out of the airline's control.

I guess the current COVID context has allowed it to last a little longer, performing a little worse than the worst performing routes on the network (rather than much worse).
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 1/22: Brave new beginnings

Wed Jan 12, 2022 8:38 pm

IrishTexan wrote:
Lounge gatekeepers were disappointed that AA check in staff were unaware of reopening and made some calls on the spot!


Id say so being that quiet they were missing much needed revenue. Unless these passengers entitled to use the lounge go in and scan their boarding passes they don't get paid.
 
EIBPI
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Re: Irish 1/22: Brave new beginnings

Wed Jan 12, 2022 9:39 pm

Very useful email from Ryanair this evening:

“We’re sorry to inform you that your flight from [….] has been cancelled due to XXX. If you're travelling with others, please inform them of this cancellation. We sincerely apologise for any inconvenience cause”

It had me wondering what is xxx?

Anyone know what Ryanair’s current policy is if you contact them by phone or chat. Will they rebook your with a connection through one of their other bases?
 
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alancostello
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Re: AA / EI Codeshare announcement

Wed Jan 12, 2022 9:53 pm

onwFan wrote:
ckpaeg wrote:
https://news.aa.com/news/news-details/2022/American-Airlines-and-Aer-Lingus-Launch-New-Codeshare-Agreement-Offering-Customers-More-Choices-for-Travel-Between-the-US-and-Europe-NET-ALP-01/default.aspx

AA/EI Codeshare announcement. Not a lot here to get excited about, but it’s a start.

Does anyone have any idea why this is taking so much long to develop? Is it just technical difficulties with the EI systems? Or is it contractual agreements with UA? They have been part of IAG for years now. From a US frequent flier perspective, it is all a mess right now. They will offer codeshares with AA/B6 and all of their flights will be in JV with AA; but you cannot earn/burn miles on them. If you want to earn miles, you have to do it with UA; but then the codeshares are winding down… Not sure why there is no streamlining at all.


It took so long because IAG were quite happy with EI just as it was, as a ‘value’ carrier. They want to direct the high-value traffic (and frequent fliers) to the more premium JV partners AA/BA as much as possible. Reciprocal earning and burning and status recognition will no doubt be coming later this year, and will likely launch with transatlantic codesharing.

Now that EI are in the JV they are capturing and sharing that additional revenue and we’ll likely see EI upscale itself to match the price increases that will be coming (a major part of the JV is fare price coordination amongst carriers).

I wouldn’t be surprised to see Premium Economy launch on EI in the near future to bring service commonality across all JV carriers (again another part of the JV is certain product standards, for example all carriers must only have completely lie-flat seats in transatlantic business class).
 
PhilipBass
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Re: Irish 1/22: Brave new beginnings

Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:01 pm

other forum is reporting Kerry Hahn with Ryanair has been taken off sale from February.
 
eicvd
Posts: 1484
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:11 pm

Re: Irish 1/22: Brave new beginnings

Wed Jan 12, 2022 11:29 pm

IrishTexan wrote:
Flew DUB-PHL on AA yesterday (Jan.11) and happy to report that 51st&Green was open for customers again as of yesterday.
Asked about lounge at check-in and was told it was still closed due to staff shortages, but saw the lounge lights on as I headed towards gate. Very, very few passengers inside. Lounge gatekeepers were disappointed that AA check in staff were unaware of reopening and made some calls on the spot!
First time in that particular lounge and was impressed. Food selection and staff excellent.


11th of January was the day it reopened. T1 lounge potentially may stay open later than 5pm from next month.
 
BrianDromey
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Re: AA / EI Codeshare announcement

Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:13 pm

alancostello wrote:
It took so long because IAG were quite happy with EI just as it was, as a ‘value’ carrier. They want to direct the high-value traffic (and frequent fliers) to the more premium JV partners AA/BA as much as possible. Reciprocal earning and burning and status recognition will no doubt be coming later this year, and will likely launch with transatlantic codesharing.


To me it seems like it is EI who have less enthusiastic feelings towards it, or any partnership to be honest. IAG were pretty clear from the start that they wanted EI and journeys through DUB as part of the JV, after all EI's lower costs would be a positive contribution to the overall JV, but might effect their revenue share negatively. I think EI desperately want to be a long/medium haul airline in their own right without realising how to play in that space. The website, booking systems, FFP infrastructure and ground experiences aren't at BA or IB level, let alone the EK, EY, QR, SQ, QF levels. The Thomson Vantage is also, arguably, a bit weak for A330/350 these days. It does seem to be the go-to for A321LRs though.
IAG have a suite of technology, partners and hard product that EI could simply pick off the shelf if they had the ambition, Premium Economy seats, Club Suite, A350 and A32xNEO orders, Amadeus (either the BA or IB versions), shared outstation facilities and handlers, oneworld connect membership, JVs with QR into Asia, the BA App is very feature rich too. Yet they are busy plotting flights between MAN and Barbados, JFK and BOS with no feeder network or local marketing. Meanwhile Ryanair are eating their short-haul lunch in Ireland and putting a nice polish on their Website and App. I notice boarding notifications are now available and food pre-orders, for example.
Its all a bit half-cocked and reminds me a bit of the LGW and BFS bases, with much promise, quite a bit of distraction from the main business and little positive contribution to the airlines development.
 
al2637
Posts: 275
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 1:11 am

Re: AA / EI Codeshare announcement

Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:27 pm

BrianDromey wrote:
alancostello wrote:
IAG have a suite of technology, partners and hard product that EI could simply pick off the shelf if they had the ambition, Premium Economy seats, Club Suite, A350 and A32xNEO orders, Amadeus (either the BA or IB versions), shared outstation facilities and handlers, oneworld connect membership.


It's not quite that simple. I was involved in a previous RFP from EI for a replacement for Astral. The costs were significant, even if taking the EI or IB version (which they can't) as mentioned previously, these guys typically charge a fee per passenger boarded (€1-€2), enough to wipe out a big chunk of EI profits. Add in the implementation costs, staff training, remodelling the entire ops of the airline etc.

The same goes for other components, BA is operationally a more complex airline than EI. Simply adpoting their solutions would add unnecessary cost to EI's more simple model.
 
EIBPI
Posts: 291
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:15 pm

Re: Irish 1/22: Brave new beginnings

Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:43 pm

PhilipBass wrote:
other forum is reporting Kerry Hahn with Ryanair has been taken off sale from February.


It seems to be for February rather than from February. The route had already been taken off sale for most of January.

A bit sad for KIR to go from 2 mainland Europe routes pre-Pandemic to none for significant periods right now.
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 1/22: Brave new beginnings

Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:51 pm

City of Derry airport business case for support is due for consideration

https://www.newsletter.co.uk/business/c ... on-3525610

They are looking for Dublin and London to help fund it over the next 5-6 years. Probably to allow a DUB-LDY route and more Regional UK connectivity.
 
YUAND
Posts: 36
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Re: AA / EI Codeshare announcement

Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:19 pm

BrianDromey wrote:
alancostello wrote:
It took so long because IAG were quite happy with EI just as it was, as a ‘value’ carrier. They want to direct the high-value traffic (and frequent fliers) to the more premium JV partners AA/BA as much as possible. Reciprocal earning and burning and status recognition will no doubt be coming later this year, and will likely launch with transatlantic codesharing.


To me it seems like it is EI who have less enthusiastic feelings towards it, or any partnership to be honest. IAG were pretty clear from the start that they wanted EI and journeys through DUB as part of the JV, after all EI's lower costs would be a positive contribution to the overall JV, but might effect their revenue share negatively. I think EI desperately want to be a long/medium haul airline in their own right without realising how to play in that space. The website, booking systems, FFP infrastructure and ground experiences aren't at BA or IB level, let alone the EK, EY, QR, SQ, QF levels. The Thomson Vantage is also, arguably, a bit weak for A330/350 these days. It does seem to be the go-to for A321LRs though.
IAG have a suite of technology, partners and hard product that EI could simply pick off the shelf if they had the ambition, Premium Economy seats, Club Suite, A350 and A32xNEO orders, Amadeus (either the BA or IB versions), shared outstation facilities and handlers, oneworld connect membership, JVs with QR into Asia, the BA App is very feature rich too. Yet they are busy plotting flights between MAN and Barbados, JFK and BOS with no feeder network or local marketing. Meanwhile Ryanair are eating their short-haul lunch in Ireland and putting a nice polish on their Website and App. I notice boarding notifications are now available and food pre-orders, for example.
Its all a bit half-cocked and reminds me a bit of the LGW and BFS bases, with much promise, quite a bit of distraction from the main business and little positive contribution to the airlines development.


To further your point, I'll be honest and say that it seems to me that EI is less than enthusiastic about anything recently. Pre pandemic wasn't great if you were travelling to anywhere outside the US or UK but now it really has me questioning what the point of EI existing is. I have an account with Aerclub but it is genuinely a struggle to fly with them to earn miles because they simply don't go where I need them to at an affordable price. I don't know if this is just my experience but anecdotally it doesn't seem to be. I've taken 4 trips since September and have had to use other options every single time:

- I flew to WAW and had to take LO because EI don't fly there for who knows what reason.
- I flew to CDG and took AF because EI attempted to charge me €240 return and AF were charging €90.
- Same as above with DUB-MAN where they tried to charge me €180 return and FR were charging significantly less.
- They cancelled all bucket and spade routes to Croatia during summer which resulted in me flying FR.
- For a future trip to London I'm taking BA because again, EI tried to charge €200 return and BA charged €70.

Notably with the expensive pricing, it isn't as if you're getting a product on EI that is worth paying more than the competition in particular with the BA and AF examples. I usually avoid FR unless they are significantly cheaper or another carrier doesn't fly where I need to go but the notion paying €180 for a flight to Manchester just beggars belief. I struggle to understand how they think such a model will help them attract passengers or recover. I would have a concern going forward that people will just ignore EI as an option as demand for travel recovers and potentially increases due to pent-up demand to get away and it very much seems that they have dropped the ball and are asleep at the wheel.
 
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OA260
Posts: 26188
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 1/22: Brave new beginnings

Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:26 pm

New Belfast City Airport base to be opened by Emerald Airlines

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2022/01 ... -airlines/

6 routes with more coming later in the year . Will be good to have stability again from BHD .
 
cc47
Posts: 140
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 3:02 pm

Re: AA / EI Codeshare announcement

Thu Jan 13, 2022 8:38 pm

YUAND wrote:
BrianDromey wrote:
alancostello wrote:
It took so long because IAG were quite happy with EI just as it was, as a ‘value’ carrier. They want to direct the high-value traffic (and frequent fliers) to the more premium JV partners AA/BA as much as possible. Reciprocal earning and burning and status recognition will no doubt be coming later this year, and will likely launch with transatlantic codesharing.


To me it seems like it is EI who have less enthusiastic feelings towards it, or any partnership to be honest. IAG were pretty clear from the start that they wanted EI and journeys through DUB as part of the JV, after all EI's lower costs would be a positive contribution to the overall JV, but might effect their revenue share negatively. I think EI desperately want to be a long/medium haul airline in their own right without realising how to play in that space. The website, booking systems, FFP infrastructure and ground experiences aren't at BA or IB level, let alone the EK, EY, QR, SQ, QF levels. The Thomson Vantage is also, arguably, a bit weak for A330/350 these days. It does seem to be the go-to for A321LRs though.
IAG have a suite of technology, partners and hard product that EI could simply pick off the shelf if they had the ambition, Premium Economy seats, Club Suite, A350 and A32xNEO orders, Amadeus (either the BA or IB versions), shared outstation facilities and handlers, oneworld connect membership, JVs with QR into Asia, the BA App is very feature rich too. Yet they are busy plotting flights between MAN and Barbados, JFK and BOS with no feeder network or local marketing. Meanwhile Ryanair are eating their short-haul lunch in Ireland and putting a nice polish on their Website and App. I notice boarding notifications are now available and food pre-orders, for example.
Its all a bit half-cocked and reminds me a bit of the LGW and BFS bases, with much promise, quite a bit of distraction from the main business and little positive contribution to the airlines development.


To further your point, I'll be honest and say that it seems to me that EI is less than enthusiastic about anything recently. Pre pandemic wasn't great if you were travelling to anywhere outside the US or UK but now it really has me questioning what the point of EI existing is. I have an account with Aerclub but it is genuinely a struggle to fly with them to earn miles because they simply don't go where I need them to at an affordable price. I don't know if this is just my experience but anecdotally it doesn't seem to be. I've taken 4 trips since September and have had to use other options every single time:

- I flew to WAW and had to take LO because EI don't fly there for who knows what reason.
- I flew to CDG and took AF because EI attempted to charge me €240 return and AF were charging €90.
- Same as above with DUB-MAN where they tried to charge me €180 return and FR were charging significantly less.
- They cancelled all bucket and spade routes to Croatia during summer which resulted in me flying FR.
- For a future trip to London I'm taking BA because again, EI tried to charge €200 return and BA charged €70.

Notably with the expensive pricing, it isn't as if you're getting a product on EI that is worth paying more than the competition in particular with the BA and AF examples. I usually avoid FR unless they are significantly cheaper or another carrier doesn't fly where I need to go but the notion paying €180 for a flight to Manchester just beggars belief. I struggle to understand how they think such a model will help them attract passengers or recover. I would have a concern going forward that people will just ignore EI as an option as demand for travel recovers and potentially increases due to pent-up demand to get away and it very much seems that they have dropped the ball and are asleep at the wheel.


Same here. I was looking at booking my flight back from the Cheltenham Festival in March today. EI absolutely extortionate from LHR-ORK. Looking at LHR-DUB now and BA are significantly cheaper. Can't really be bothered going to STN so BA it is. Especially when you factor in EI's tendency to list flights on their website they surely have no intention of operating...
 
Fliplot
Posts: 697
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:23 pm

Re: Irish 1/22: Brave new beginnings

Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:02 pm

If I were Emerald I would be concerned. The apparent lack of interest by EI is worrying and surprising. There seems to be no effort at all to have a go and chase recovery. Flights are generally more expensive across the board and schedules are shot to pieces. They seem to be away with the fairies!
 
EIBPI
Posts: 291
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:15 pm

Re: Irish 1/22: Brave new beginnings

Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:42 pm

I fly quite a lot between Ireland and mainland Europe. I can’t remember the last time I picked Aer Lingus on one of these trips. Either an unhelpful schedule or a more expensive fare, and I see no reason at all to pay more for the Aer Lingus product.
 
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OA260
Posts: 26188
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 1/22: Brave new beginnings

Thu Jan 13, 2022 11:22 pm

I still choose Aer Lingus on many routes and personally have not found them to be always higher priced but there are numerous things that can influence that perception . Day of the week , season etc.. I usually opt for Aerspace or Advantage so that might be a factor. On LHR I have been paying €149 oneway and always select the A330 or 321NEO as its the proper business class seats and well worth it. Lounges are back open as is priority boarding . Obviously we have to take into account that the Irish government demonised travel and that continues to plague the recovery as its in the minds of people and hard to bounce back. Many are still anxious and the recent introduction of testing which has now been removed knocked confidence to plan ahead just when it was easing.

From now until March it will be a case of very quiet airports while other European airports bounce back quicker. A lot of people I know are planning a Summer holiday but those extra city breaks are not on their list currently.

While Aer Lingus have dropped the ball on a few things over the last 18 months they have suffered more then many European airlines due to the strictest lockdowns.

The waves of cancellations caused a bad PR perception and the way they were sometimes handled lead to rants on social media that have caused damage to the brand. Then again FR have axed lots of flights for Jan / Feb and the most recent ones from EI seem to be much reduced and certainly not in the league we have seen before. My flights with EI over the pandemic have been on time and reliable even though I suffered a few cancellations. The only issues I had during my journey have been with BA so its not just Aer Lingus.

They have been a lot better with refunds compared to FR and even worse is TP where a mate of mine is still constantly chasing them for the last 18 months.

As a regular flyer on Aer Lingus I am seeing improvements Im seeing low fares on many routes and noticed that flights end of March to TFS were cheaper compared to FR on certain dates. Again one ways to BCN end March for €35! While there are issues its not all doom and gloom .
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 4410
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: Irish 1/22: Brave new beginnings

Fri Jan 14, 2022 6:44 am

OA260 wrote:
New Belfast City Airport base to be opened by Emerald Airlines

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2022/01 ... -airlines/

6 routes with more coming later in the year . Will be good to have stability again from BHD .

Only routes to Mainland UK have been announced. It will be interesting to see if they branch out beyond this. They do say more announcements to come - BRU, JER, or ORK perhaps?
 
Fliplot
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Re: Irish 1/22: Brave new beginnings

Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:02 am

Some European routes from BHD would be interesting - BRU, CDG for examole. Always thought it was a missed opportunity
 
planemanofnz
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Re: Irish 1/22: Brave new beginnings

Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:27 am

Fliplot wrote:
Some European routes from BHD would be interesting - BRU, CDG for examole. Always thought it was a missed opportunity

Most of the major airports - BER, BRU, FCO, FRA, MAD, etc - aren't served from either BFS or BHD. Most of these would be out of the Emerald ATR's range (and wouldn't have enough demand to make a jet work), but BRU might be viable? CDG is already served by easyJet from BFS, along with a bunch of European destinations (AMS, BCN, GVA, etc), while AMS is already served by KLM from BHD.

Would LH consider BHD-FRA? There is no Star Alliance presence in Northern Ireland, which is a flaw in its European and global offering.
 
PhilipBass
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Re: Irish 1/22: Brave new beginnings

Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:39 am

I expect an Airline operating from Belfast first wants to win the majority of the passengers who are driving down the M1 to Dublin Airport and most of them are going to the "Mainland"...Low hanging fruit and what not.
 
PhilipBass
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Re: Irish 1/22: Brave new beginnings

Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:46 am

I wonder if they could ever operationally maximise usage by operating from Belfast to Glasgow/Edinburgh and then Glasgow/Edinburgh to Aberdeen like a bus stop. Same for Belfast-Douglas-Birmingham or something like that.
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 1/22: Brave new beginnings

Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:06 am

I would love to see Emerald/EIR operate a twice daily BHD-SOU. Its in much need of a reliable service. Flybe operated it and its was very expensive and unreliable. Eastern has an erratic service currently.
 
dstc47
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Joined: Thu Sep 16, 1999 3:53 am

Re: Irish 1/22: Brave new beginnings

Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:08 am

BRU from Belfast is unlikely, particularly post Brexit and in the era of on-line meetings.
BRU has always proved a tough sell from ORK in the past.
Fast trains from Paris and Amsterdam have eroded a lot of BRU traffic from smaller European airports
 
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OA260
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Re: AA / EI Codeshare announcement

Fri Jan 14, 2022 11:25 am

YUAND wrote:
- They cancelled all bucket and spade routes to Croatia during summer which resulted in me flying FR.
.


They have just axed the DUB-SPU Saturday service for this Summer. Im surprised they axed the Sunday DUB-LPA too.
 
iRISH251
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Re: AA / EI Codeshare announcement

Fri Jan 14, 2022 11:46 am

YUAND wrote:

To further your point, I'll be honest and say that it seems to me that EI is less than enthusiastic about anything recently. Pre pandemic wasn't great if you were travelling to anywhere outside the US or UK but now it really has me questioning what the point of EI existing is. I have an account with Aerclub but it is genuinely a struggle to fly with them to earn miles because they simply don't go where I need them to at an affordable price. I don't know if this is just my experience but anecdotally it doesn't seem to be. I've taken 4 trips since September and have had to use other options every single time:

- I flew to WAW and had to take LO because EI don't fly there for who knows what reason.
- I flew to CDG and took AF because EI attempted to charge me €240 return and AF were charging €90.
- Same as above with DUB-MAN where they tried to charge me €180 return and FR were charging significantly less.
- They cancelled all bucket and spade routes to Croatia during summer which resulted in me flying FR.
- For a future trip to London I'm taking BA because again, EI tried to charge €200 return and BA charged €70.

Notably with the expensive pricing, it isn't as if you're getting a product on EI that is worth paying more than the competition in particular with the BA and AF examples. I usually avoid FR unless they are significantly cheaper or another carrier doesn't fly where I need to go but the notion paying €180 for a flight to Manchester just beggars belief. I struggle to understand how they think such a model will help them attract passengers or recover. I would have a concern going forward that people will just ignore EI as an option as demand for travel recovers and potentially increases due to pent-up demand to get away and it very much seems that they have dropped the ball and are asleep at the wheel.


Like, I imagine, a lot of people in Ireland, I have barely travelled outside the country at all in the past two years, for reasons that are well-known. Therefore the market at the moment is far from operating as it did pre-pandemic. What are load factors like? I would surprised if, across the board, they were back to anything like pre-pandemic levels, especially in winter time. The fares that you seem to deem excessive are actually not untypical for higher-demand routes and if BA and AF were charging those fares across the board I don't think they would be making much, if any, money. As regards Poland, FR has this price-sensitive market largely tied up and for many years LOT stayed away from Dublin. Ryanair has an enormous operation anyway and is not heavily reliant on what's happening in Ireland, despite the noise they make about it. Like others, I would love to see EI expanding its activity and when Emerald gets going that is going to release mainline capacity for other routes for a start. I would also like to think that the people running the airline know more about their business and what will make money (which is the business they are in) than our online community, which cannot have the information to make informed assessments.
 
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AmricanShamrok
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Re: AA / EI Codeshare announcement

Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:43 pm

To weigh in on the EI debate, I've barely used them in the past three years (mainly only to redeem the free European flights I get with the EI credit card). As mentioned above, I generally find the service good and flights on time etc. My biggest bug bear is (as also mentioned above) EI advertising flights and then cancelling a shot of them a few weeks before or seemingly having no intention of operating them in the first place. For example, a near full SNN schedule had been on sale throughout the pandemic but from March 2020 to October 2021, no flights actually operated. Until I actually witnessed a scheduled EI passenger flight taking off from SNN with my own eyes, I was not booking anything from there. Yes other airlines do this too but I found EI to be particularly bad and there seemed to be no correlation between them cancelling and new rounds of restrictions being announced. This does not inspire confidence in terms of forward bookings.

iRISH251 wrote:
YUAND wrote:
What are load factors like? I would surprised if, across the board, they were back to anything like pre-pandemic levels, especially in winter time.

My most recent trip was to the Canaries in mid-November. Outbound was about 65%-70% and inbound near 100%. Before that I did LHR-SNN in October which was about 80%. So not too bad in my experience.
 
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ClassicLover
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Re: AA / EI Codeshare announcement

Fri Jan 14, 2022 5:27 pm

YUAND wrote:
- For a future trip to London I'm taking BA because again, EI tried to charge €200 return and BA charged €70.


British Airways are routinely cheaper than Aer Lingus on the flights to London Heathrow. Even with things like day returns they are far cheaper almost every time I check flights, so I always fly BA to London. At times, even business class is cheaper - you can get Club Europe sometimes for €80-€90 one way, which generally is the same price EI charge. Crazy, but I like it :)
 
opticalilyushin
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Re: Irish 1/22: Brave new beginnings

Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:42 am

OA260 wrote:
New Belfast City Airport base to be opened by Emerald Airlines

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2022/01 ... -airlines/

6 routes with more coming later in the year . Will be good to have stability again from BHD .


Flybe 2.0 held meetings with BHD this week, with intentions to also open a sizeable base, competing directly against Emerald and others. They seem to want to reclaim what was once very much their own territory for many years. Expect a bloodbath, and I'm not sure which newstart has the deepest pockets?
 
EIBPI
Posts: 291
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:15 pm

Re: Irish 1/22: Brave new beginnings

Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:36 pm

Dublin Airport’s transport situation to the city centre has really worsened since COVID.

No more Dublin Bus 746/747 express services and two operators who seem to be competing with each other for who can provide the most lackluster service: Aircoach and Dublin Express with buses scheduled at extremely similar times (every 30 minutes each), buses frequently late, no functional real time information displays, tickets sometimes sold for “the next bus” which ends up being full because it’l is coming from the other terminal, buses parked at the stop to trick customers into thinking a bus will leave soon, no direct service to Dublin’s main intercity train station (Heuston) etc.

The very few other major airports without a rail link manage to have something resembling a reliable express bus services.
 
JAmie2k9
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Re: Irish 1/22: Brave new beginnings

Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:23 pm

EIBPI wrote:
Dublin Airport’s transport situation to the city centre has really worsened since COVID.

No more Dublin Bus 746/747 express services and two operators who seem to be competing with each other for who can provide the most lackluster service: Aircoach and Dublin Express with buses scheduled at extremely similar times (every 30 minutes each), buses frequently late, no functional real time information displays, tickets sometimes sold for “the next bus” which ends up being full because it’l is coming from the other terminal, buses parked at the stop to trick customers into thinking a bus will leave soon, no direct service to Dublin’s main intercity train station (Heuston) etc.

The very few other major airports without a rail link manage to have something resembling a reliable express bus services.


Dublin Express goes to Heuston.

Freq will probably pick up from March when demand starts to return.
 
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ClassicLover
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Re: Irish 1/22: Brave new beginnings

Sun Jan 16, 2022 4:18 pm

EIBPI wrote:
Dublin Airport’s transport situation to the city centre has really worsened since COVID.

No more Dublin Bus 746/747 express services and two operators who seem to be competing with each other for who can provide the most lackluster service: Aircoach and Dublin Express with buses scheduled at extremely similar times (every 30 minutes each), buses frequently late, no functional real time information displays, tickets sometimes sold for “the next bus” which ends up being full because it’l is coming from the other terminal, buses parked at the stop to trick customers into thinking a bus will leave soon, no direct service to Dublin’s main intercity train station (Heuston) etc..


I miss the 757 bus, it was so handy because its starting point was the closest stop to where I live, so I knew reliably when to leave the house to get the bus. Now I have to take the AirCoach and as I'm half way down the route, I need to leave extra early to make sure I get it.

I was very surprised when Dublin Bus said they'd canned the 747 and 757 permanently. I would have thought they would have brought them back once demand increases, but apparently not.
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 1/22: Brave new beginnings

Sun Jan 16, 2022 5:18 pm

I flew out of DUB this afternoon . Place was empty. Fast Track was open I was the only one passing through. The Aer Lingus lounge had around 10 in . Flight on the 321NEO in Aerspace and Id say load was 35-40%. 7 in Aerspace. Crew were excellent and nice detailed welcome from flight deck . After take off you could choose what you wanted from the Bia menu which had no stock issues. Landed early .

One warning to anyone using Dublin Airport duty free. They are still advertising on the digital boards and website old prices and when you go to pay the tills are sometimes showing €5-7 more . Very bad form to be honest and staff don't care. A decent place would honour the price listed . Two US tourists in front of me were less then impressed and dumped their items and walked out .
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 1/22: Brave new beginnings

Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:14 pm

Aer Lingus suffers €1bn debt swing as bill looms for new airplanes
Airline issues stark warning about the ‘profound effect’ Covid has had

https://www.independent.ie/business/aer ... 40013.html

According to the article Aer Lingus has said it is unable to compete with FR on European routes.
 
EISG1129
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:43 pm

Re: Irish 1/22: Brave new beginnings

Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:02 pm

As mentioned above, I'm surprised the Dublin Bus Airlink 747/757 service is no more. It was frequent and, in my experience, was popular and reliable. Perhaps competition from other operators such as Aircoach and Dublin Express was it's downfall. (Although I acknowledge that Dublin Bus Airlink 747/757 and Aircoach did run in competition with each other for many years).

I note that under the roll out of Bus Connects (The re-design of Dublin's bus network by the National Transport Authority) - Dublin Airport bus services will gradually change at some point over the next few years. Dublin Bus routes 16 and 41 into the city centre will be no more. It appears that the main service into the city from the airport along the Swords Road and through Drumcondra will be the A2, which will then continue out to Ballinteer and Dundrum. From the summary report on the Bus Connects website the service will mainly be every 12 minutes during the day on weekdays, every 15 minutes on Saturdays and every 20 minutes on Sundays.

There will be two more indirect routes to the city from Dublin Airport:
19 - to Parnell Square through Balbutcher Lane and Wadelai Park (mainly hourly Monday to Sunday)
24 - to Merrion Square through Charlestown and Ballygall Road (mainly every 20 minutes Monday to Saturday, every 30 minutes Sundays)

Other local services will include:
N8 - Blanchardstown Centre - Airport - Clongriffin Train Station (mainly every 30 minutes Monday to Sunday)
L81 - Sutton - Portmarnock - Malahide - Swords - Airport (looks similar to what is currently the 102) (mainly every 20 minutes Monday to Friday, every 30 minutes Saturday and Sunday)
L83 - Portrane - Donabate - Swords - Airport (mainly every 30 minutes Monday to Sunday)
L85 - Balbriggan - Skerries - Rush/Lusk - Swords - Airport (mainly every 30 minutes Monday to Sunday)

No clear timeframe for these changes to Dublin Airport bus services is clearly evident from the Bus Connect website, but it appears they are gradual. There is no suggestion from the website any of these changes would replace any airport bus operator such as Aircoach.

I've just summarised some data relevant to the airport from what is in the summary report on the website, but more detailed information on routings, frequencies, etc. is available from the summary report downloadable on the Bus Connects website: https://busconnects.ie/initiatives/new- ... s-network/
 
Fliplot
Posts: 697
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:23 pm

Re: Irish 1/22: Brave new beginnings

Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:02 pm

Do they compete with FR? The EI fares suggest they do mot and don't even try. But then again for the fares they do charge they also don't compete with other legacy carriers either. I would choose EI over FR because I prefer the Airbus experence. So I am not necessarily a fare sensitive traveller but sometimes the fare differences are eye watering
 
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ClassicLover
Posts: 5467
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 12:27 pm

Re: Irish 1/22: Brave new beginnings

Mon Jan 17, 2022 9:53 am

Fliplot wrote:
Do they compete with FR? The EI fares suggest they do mot and don't even try. But then again for the fares they do charge they also don't compete with other legacy carriers either. I would choose EI over FR because I prefer the Airbus experence. So I am not necessarily a fare sensitive traveller but sometimes the fare differences are eye watering


They tried to directly compete with FR back in the 2008-ish period and it was a bloodbath. They lost plenty of money because their cost structure can't sustain those kinds of fares. Ryanair has serious economies of scale, plus they employ people on less money than Aer Lingus, so it is not possible for them to compete in this way.

Aer Lingus fares are always higher, but people always pay them and hence the fact they were profitable - and very much so - before the pandemic. This will never change, because they can charge those fares and people will pay them because of the brand perception which is backed up by the attitude and quality of the people that work for the airline.

They found their niche and it works well for them. Lamenting they don't charge €5.99 fares is a bit of a waste of time. Other airlines will be cheaper on occasion and on some routes, frequently - but Aer Lingus keep filling their aircraft profitably in normal times, so there's no shame in their game.
 
BrianDromey
Posts: 3255
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:23 am

Re: Irish 1/22: Brave new beginnings

Mon Jan 17, 2022 10:23 am

ClassicLover wrote:
Fliplot wrote:
Do they compete with FR? The EI fares suggest they do mot and don't even try. But then again for the fares they do charge they also don't compete with other legacy carriers either. I would choose EI over FR because I prefer the Airbus experence. So I am not necessarily a fare sensitive traveller but sometimes the fare differences are eye watering

They found their niche and it works well for them. Lamenting they don't charge €5.99 fares is a bit of a waste of time. Other airlines will be cheaper on occasion and on some routes, frequently - but Aer Lingus keep filling their aircraft profitably in normal times, so there's no shame in their game.


It worked to an extent and relies on FR keeping in their lane of not serving major airports, etc. In fairness FR have had mixed results across the network too. FRA has not worked out and AMS has very limited service. What is more worrying is that EI have been extremely slow to build their European network back up. Even the routes from BHD to GB were very half hearted routes where they have no direct competition, no/limited travel restrictions, good brand recognition on both ends and their demised franchise partner had already spent money advertising the routes.
Ryanair's -8200s are going to be extremely difficult to compete with from a coast point of view, but going to be fairly short on legroom. The A321LR's are spacious, comfortable and Im sure the short haul aircraft could be fitted with the same seat frames and fabrics if EI wanted to compete with a less utilitarian product. Will people pay the necessary extra, or will EI be back to the EI of the 2000's with LHR, AMS, FRA as the mainstays with a smattering of seasonal sun destinations like FAO and , ALC and AGP?

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