Boeing 787 Production/Delivery Thread - 2022

JohanTally · Fri Jul 01, 2022 1:30 pm

REDHL wrote:
JohanTally wrote:
edealinfo wrote:

1. Thank you for the terrific input. I tried to match the airline you mentioned below and guessed their LN (line number)
LOT (LN 1014 or 1046 in storage and assembled in Charleston? or LN 1036 is production testing?)
Westjet (LN 1106 stored aircraft assembled in Charleston)
AA (LN 1045 /1055 /1061 /1071/ 1075 / 1087 / assembled in Everette or LN 1099 /1103 assembled in Charleston, or LN 1111 stored and assembled in Charleston?
Oman (LN 1108 assembled in Charleston)
Turkish 789 (LN 1113 - stored and assembled in Charleston)

Can you please keep an eye out for VISTARA AIRLINES? It's livery is like the one in the link below. One of its aircraft (LN 1107 is in storage and was assembled in Charleston. Its line number is between the Westjet LN 1106 and Oman Air LN 1108 that you mentioned. The reason I am interested is that Vistara has secured highly prized London Heathrow slots but to add that flight it needs its 787 aircraft.

https://runwaygirlnetwork.com/2020/03/m ... -revealed/

2. Yes, would love for you to post what you see here so we can guess deliveries.

Thank you, and appreciate your input.

(i) You haven't stated why you expect it to be greenlighted before Farnborough.
(ii) Can you briefly elaborate and how much time would it take?

I can't find the article but it was stated that the FAA was satisfied with the proposed rework and mitigation strategy for future defects. The documents filed needed to be revised but Boeing would not have to refile and certification is imminent. While the FAA wants Boeing to clean up their act going forward I'd assume they also don't want to cause irreparable harm to the company and the American aviation industry.

May you go. I think Opus99 posted it on reply #154.

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... eliveries/

Thank you

edealinfo · Fri Jul 01, 2022 11:17 pm

chrisnh wrote:
I live in Summerville, SC, beneath the approach to CHS. Test flights are common over the house: LOT, Westjet, AA, Oman to name just four recent ones. Last week a Turkish 789 went to Victorville, I presume to get painted in the new livery. Hasn’t come back yet, but I’ll keep my eyes open.

It appears a Citi analyst followed through on your post here and wrote about it ...........

Boeing 787s 'Being Prepared in Anticipation of Delivery'
https://www.investing.com/news/stock-ma ... SI-2843176

Blotto wrote:
So end of July is what Boeing expects if the FAA accepts all the certification documents.

JohanTally wrote:
I expect the FAA to greenlight deliveries before or during Farnborough but as stated that doesn't mean they instantly get delivered.

I now agree with JohanTally that the FAA approval will come before the Farnborough air show on July 17, and agree with Blotto, that actual delivery will likely start in August.

danipawa · Sun Jul 03, 2022 5:08 pm

fingers crossed

inkjet7 · Mon Jul 04, 2022 5:27 pm

edealinfo wrote:
[
KLM

NOTE: I just looked at the first X number of 787s in storage. Obviously there are more airlines that have 787 in storage but they have a later production line number.

KLM has extended the lease on some of their A333's because the 787's couldn't be delivered. So it looks like they want them for their dual type rating (777/787) operations. All four undelivered 787-10's have flown already.

Blotto · Mon Jul 04, 2022 7:58 pm

edealinfo wrote:
I now agree with JohanTally that the FAA approval will come before the Farnborough air show on July 17, and agree with Blotto, that actual delivery will likely start in August.

They still have issues with the flight recorder that won't be solved before 7/20. Don't put too much money on an announcement on some airshow

travaz · Mon Jul 04, 2022 8:26 pm

What would the issue be with the Flight recorder? that is pretty mature tech.

Avatar2go · Mon Jul 04, 2022 9:56 pm

The 787 flight data recorder issue dates back to the battery fires. The NTSB found that in the case of a data source or sensor not responding, the system continues to record the last known good data. That can result in potentially "stale" data being recorded.

The NTSB recommended that instead, an invalid value be recorded once the source stops responding. That was 8 years ago, so don't think it affects the present delivery stop of the 787.

Blotto · Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:49 am

travaz wrote:
What would the issue be with the Flight recorder? that is pretty mature tech.

New aircraft need to have CVRs with 25h recording time. That value was raised from 2h a few years. Boeing struggled with that

Polot · Tue Jul 05, 2022 11:26 am

Blotto wrote:
travaz wrote:
What would the issue be with the Flight recorder? that is pretty mature tech.

New aircraft need to have CVRs with 25h recording time. That value was raised from 2h a few years. Boeing struggled with that

Any problem with that sounds more like a CVR manufacturing or certification issue than anything specific to Boeing or the 787. Boeing does not design the black boxes, those are bought from vendors like GE or Honeywell. Raising recording time is more of an issue of having sufficient storage space in the box versus anything regarding the box/aircraft interface.

frigatebird · Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:40 pm

Polot wrote:
Blotto wrote:
travaz wrote:
What would the issue be with the Flight recorder? that is pretty mature tech.

New aircraft need to have CVRs with 25h recording time. That value was raised from 2h a few years. Boeing struggled with that

Any problem with that sounds more like a CVR manufacturing or certification issue than anything specific to Boeing or the 787. Boeing does not design the black boxes, those are bought from vendors like GE or Honeywell. Raising recording time is more of an issue of having sufficient storage space in the box versus anything regarding the box/aircraft interface.

But these CVRs should be mandatory for other aircraft types than 787s too, wouldn't they? So I don't know why it would be a technical challenge for the 787. Can't imagine their regular CVR suppliers can't make 25h recording time black boxes. To me as a layman that seems one of the simpler technical issues to overcome.

Although I'm sorry to say nothing should surprise me when it's Boeing :sigh:

Blotto · Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:02 pm

frigatebird wrote:
But these CVRs should be mandatory for other aircraft types than 787s too, wouldn't they? So I don't know why it would be a technical challenge for the 787. Can't imagine their regular CVR suppliers can't make 25h recording time black boxes. To me as a layman that seems one of the simpler technical issues to overcome.

Although I'm sorry to say nothing should surprise me when it's Boeing

It's an ICAO mandate for all A/C produced (=delivered) after Jan 1st 2022.

And yeah, the devil is in the details. They discovered problems with the recorder last year and applied the typical Boeing behavior regarding timelines. So it should've been resolved in November and has been pushed since. As an operator you can apply for excemptions but you have to do so for every airspace you fly over. And hope that Boeing resolves the issue inside your excemption period. So good luck with that. Let's hope they finally close that thing in a few weeks

SQ22 · Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:21 pm

Please remember to provide a link to your source when stating facts, thanks.

catdaddy63 · Wed Jul 06, 2022 12:53 pm

According to this spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

AA appears to have flown C1 flights on LN's 1045,1061, and 1099 over the last few weeks.

Opus99 · Wed Jul 06, 2022 12:54 pm

catdaddy63 wrote:
According to this spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

AA appears to have flown C1 flights on LN's 1045,1061, and 1099 over the last few weeks.

This is good news. Shows that customers are getting ready to take delivery

Opus99 · Wed Jul 13, 2022 5:18 am

http://kpae.blogspot.com/2022/07/paine- ... ly-12.html

787 deliveries to kick of July 30th with American Airlines, quickly followed by August 1st with a second American

MileHFL400 · Wed Jul 13, 2022 7:15 am

Opus99 wrote:
http://kpae.blogspot.com/2022/07/paine-field-july-12.html

787 deliveries to kick of July 30th with American Airlines, quickly followed by August 1st with a second American

Wouldn’t they need FAA approval first?

Though it’s rumoured to be coming soon I haven’t seen an official go ahead yet!

Blotto · Wed Jul 13, 2022 7:18 am

Opus99 wrote:
http://kpae.blogspot.com/2022/07/paine-field-july-12.html

787 deliveries to kick of July 30th with American Airlines, quickly followed by August 1st with a second American

Let's see if that works out. Boeing just discovered that they have to change all cockpit windows and simply don't have the parts available, so they are pushing the deliveries currently deep into August. Maybe the use the first ones for AA.

Opus99 · Wed Jul 13, 2022 7:30 am

MileHFL400 wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
http://kpae.blogspot.com/2022/07/paine-field-july-12.html

787 deliveries to kick of July 30th with American Airlines, quickly followed by August 1st with a second American

Wouldn’t they need FAA approval first?

Though it’s rumoured to be coming soon I haven’t seen an official go ahead yet!

Yes, I should add this is VERY tentative. FAA go ahead must first come

Opus99 · Wed Jul 13, 2022 7:33 am

Lufthansa D-ABPA also now wearing its delivery reg rather than its temp.

CanukinUSA · Wed Jul 13, 2022 5:11 pm

The Temporary US N registration is usually only put on a production aircraft for a short time in order to get an "Experimental ticket" (i.e. a Special Airworthiness Certificate in the Experimental Category) to do any required testing on any brand new systems to certify the aircraft. That avoids trying to deal with foreign regulators who may not be familiar with issuing Special Airworthiness Certificates. On a new aircraft for a particular customer there is usually some new system on the aircraft that has to be certified before delivery that a customer has ordered on their aircraft. Normal Production Flight testing may be done on a "Production ticket" (Production Flight Permit) which allows Boeing to leave on and fly with the foreign registration on the aircraft for production flight testing.

Stitch · Wed Jul 13, 2022 6:45 pm

Opus99 wrote:
787 deliveries to kick of July 30th with American Airlines, quickly followed by August 1st with a second.

MileHFL400 wrote:
Wouldn’t they need FAA approval first? Though it’s rumoured to be coming soon I haven’t seen an official go ahead yet!

To the best of my knowledge, the FAA is still issuing the airworthiness certificates for each 787 so yes, it would be pending the FAA issuing the certificates by those dates.

I presume they will continue to do so for a period until they are satisfied the frames Boeing is presenting to them as ready for delivery show that Boeing has the QA issues under control and returns the authority to issue said certificates back to them.

iamlucky13 · Wed Jul 13, 2022 7:06 pm

Blotto wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
http://kpae.blogspot.com/2022/07/paine-field-july-12.html

787 deliveries to kick of July 30th with American Airlines, quickly followed by August 1st with a second American

Let's see if that works out. Boeing just discovered that they have to change all cockpit windows and simply don't have the parts available, so they are pushing the deliveries currently deep into August. Maybe the use the first ones for AA.

I haven't seen any updates published recently. Can you share your source?

This was identified as a concern in a similar time frame as the other major rework items, well over a year ago. Are you sure that no aircraft have received new windows since then?

https://www.aerospace-technology.com/ne ... r-windows/

To be fair, I'm also curious on Matt Cawby's source for the scheduled delivery dates. It does fit with other recent news about Boeing, the customer acceptance flights, and the registration number updates, but I haven't been counting anything as final until we hear the FAA has started approving airworthiness certificates.

Blotto · Wed Jul 13, 2022 9:29 pm

iamlucky13 wrote:
Blotto wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
http://kpae.blogspot.com/2022/07/paine-field-july-12.html

787 deliveries to kick of July 30th with American Airlines, quickly followed by August 1st with a second American

Let's see if that works out. Boeing just discovered that they have to change all cockpit windows and simply don't have the parts available, so they are pushing the deliveries currently deep into August. Maybe the use the first ones for AA.

I haven't seen any updates published recently. Can you share your source?

No, I can't. NDAs, you know. Some day I'll write a book on this drama

Boeing1978 · Thu Jul 14, 2022 12:34 am

Blotto wrote:
...Boeing just discovered that they have to change all cockpit windows and simply don't have the parts available, so they are pushing the deliveries currently deep into August...

Changing the occasional cockpit windshield assy due to distortion or imperfection isn't unheard of on new aircraft, but you're stating that ALL cockpit windshield assys need to be replaced, on ALL 787s not yet delivered...? I'm skeptical.

Avatar2go · Thu Jul 14, 2022 8:32 am

Boeing1978 wrote:
Blotto wrote:
...Boeing just discovered that they have to change all cockpit windows and simply don't have the parts available, so they are pushing the deliveries currently deep into August...

Changing the occasional cockpit windshield assy due to distortion or imperfection isn't unheard of on new aircraft, but you're stating that ALL cockpit windshield assys need to be replaced, on ALL 787s not yet delivered...? I'm skeptical.

Agreed. The article says a small number of new 787 have windshields that needed to be tested due to a change made by the manufacturer, that Boeing had just discovered. There is no news after that. So likely either there was no issue, or the issue was addressed for those aircraft.

Opus99 · Thu Jul 14, 2022 2:57 pm

http://kpae.blogspot.com/2022/07/paine- ... ly-13.html

Customer flights scheduled this week for American 787s

MileHFL400 · Thu Jul 14, 2022 5:42 pm

Opus99 wrote:
http://kpae.blogspot.com/2022/07/paine-field-july-13.html

Customer flights scheduled this week for American 787s

Any news on the LH birds?

Opus99 · Thu Jul 14, 2022 5:45 pm

MileHFL400 wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
http://kpae.blogspot.com/2022/07/paine-field-july-13.html

Customer flights scheduled this week for American 787s

Any news on the LH birds?

The first one due to come in had a functional check flight a couple of days ago. And had its temporary reg removed

iamlucky13 · Thu Jul 14, 2022 7:54 pm

Blotto wrote:
iamlucky13 wrote:
Blotto wrote:

Let's see if that works out. Boeing just discovered that they have to change all cockpit windows and simply don't have the parts available, so they are pushing the deliveries currently deep into August. Maybe the use the first ones for AA.

I haven't seen any updates published recently. Can you share your source?

No, I can't. NDAs, you know. Some day I'll write a book on this drama

Understood. I will add, however, that it's better to just let speculators speculate than go into a gray area by hinting at matters covered by an NDA. This is just a discussion forum. It doesn't really matter if we don't find out until the end of the month that it actually won't happen until next month.

iamlucky13 · Thu Jul 14, 2022 7:58 pm

Avatar2go wrote:
Boeing1978 wrote:
Blotto wrote:
...Boeing just discovered that they have to change all cockpit windows and simply don't have the parts available, so they are pushing the deliveries currently deep into August...

Changing the occasional cockpit windshield assy due to distortion or imperfection isn't unheard of on new aircraft, but you're stating that ALL cockpit windshield assys need to be replaced, on ALL 787s not yet delivered...? I'm skeptical.

Agreed. The article says a small number of new 787 have windshields that needed to be tested due to a change made by the manufacturer, that Boeing had just discovered. There is no news after that. So likely either there was no issue, or the issue was addressed for those aircraft.

It is possible that either reverting or qualifying the change made by the manufacturer has quietly become the pacing item for deliveries even though shimming was the original cause of a significant delay.

There is neither clear information confirming July deliveries, nor confirming no deliveries until August. I'm just going to be patient and wait for more info.

Avatar2go · Thu Jul 14, 2022 8:07 pm

iamlucky13 wrote:
Avatar2go wrote:
Boeing1978 wrote:

Changing the occasional cockpit windshield assy due to distortion or imperfection isn't unheard of on new aircraft, but you're stating that ALL cockpit windshield assys need to be replaced, on ALL 787s not yet delivered...? I'm skeptical.

Agreed. The article says a small number of new 787 have windshields that needed to be tested due to a change made by the manufacturer, that Boeing had just discovered. There is no news after that. So likely either there was no issue, or the issue was addressed for those aircraft.

It is possible that either reverting or qualifying the change made by the manufacturer has quietly become the pacing item for deliveries even though shimming was the original cause of a significant delay.

There is neither clear information confirming July deliveries, nor confirming no deliveries until August. I'm just going to be patient and wait for more info.

I can't speak to the startup of deliveries, that's up to the FAA and Boeing. I was just saying that it's unlikely that no 787's can be delivered because of windshield issues, as was alleged, after more than a year has gone by since identification of the issue, in a small number of aircraft.

airboss787 · Sat Jul 16, 2022 4:24 pm

Looks like Vistara (VT-TSO) also had a flight CHS-CHS on June 30th. Hopefully getting prepped for delivery as soon as possible. This may be useful to the poster who was quite curious about Vistara couple of weeks ago.

RobK · Sat Jul 16, 2022 8:29 pm

No such flight happened. Fake news.

B787register · Sat Jul 16, 2022 9:07 pm

Sorry bit she did
Activity
Third Flight CHS-CHS
Airline
Vistara
Registration
N9674N
Callsign
BOE602
Hex
AD7918
Date & Time
Jun 30 2022 13:58-15:08 UTC

bmibaby737 · Sat Jul 16, 2022 9:17 pm

B787register wrote:
Sorry bit she did
Activity
Third Flight CHS-CHS
Airline
Vistara
Registration
N9674N
Callsign
BOE602
Hex
AD7918
Date & Time
Jun 30 2022 13:58-15:08 UTC

RobK is correct, B787register, BOE602 callsign would make it MSN 42382, just using the same test registration as your Vistara.

B787register · Sat Jul 16, 2022 9:39 pm

Here is my source
https://boefamily.flights/787/66530

Avatar2go · Sat Jul 16, 2022 10:11 pm

bmibaby737 wrote:
B787register wrote:
Sorry bit she did
Activity
Third Flight CHS-CHS
Airline
Vistara
Registration
N9674N
Callsign
BOE602
Hex
AD7918
Date & Time
Jun 30 2022 13:58-15:08 UTC

RobK is correct, B787register, BOE602 callsign would make it MSN 42382, just using the same test registration as your Vistara.

B787register would appear to be correct. The aircraft MSN 42382, Oman-Air flew on June 22, with the same callsign. The Vistara MSN 66530 flew on June 30.

chrisnh · Sun Jul 17, 2022 2:25 am

The Oman 789 that flew over my house in Summerville, SC on 6/22 was N20021. I am awaiting the return of the TK 789 that went out to Victorville because I think it might be coming back with the new livery. Hoping so, anyway.

Blotto · Mon Jul 18, 2022 6:06 pm

Avatar2go wrote:
iamlucky13 wrote:
Avatar2go wrote:

Agreed. The article says a small number of new 787 have windshields that needed to be tested due to a change made by the manufacturer, that Boeing had just discovered. There is no news after that. So likely either there was no issue, or the issue was addressed for those aircraft.

It is possible that either reverting or qualifying the change made by the manufacturer has quietly become the pacing item for deliveries even though shimming was the original cause of a significant delay.

There is neither clear information confirming July deliveries, nor confirming no deliveries until August. I'm just going to be patient and wait for more info.

I can't speak to the startup of deliveries, that's up to the FAA and Boeing. I was just saying that it's unlikely that no 787's can be delivered because of windshield issues, as was alleged, after more than a year has gone by since identification of the issue, in a small number of aircraft.

Sure it's unlikely. Boeing still managed to create this problem

From what I hear, the AA delivery team already stopped their work. Don't hold your breath for any delivery soon until well into August.

Devin · Mon Jul 18, 2022 7:42 pm

chrisnh wrote:
The Oman 789 that flew over my house in Summerville, SC on 6/22 was N20021. I am awaiting the return of the TK 789 that went out to Victorville because I think it might be coming back with the new livery. Hoping so, anyway.

Hate to kill the hope but it won’t be coming back with new paint as Boeing doesn‘t paint 787 at VCV. I‘ve only seen FTW and PDX. TC-LLR got painted in full and flew out to VCV but don’t think it‘ll be back soon

Devin · Mon Jul 18, 2022 7:43 pm

B787register wrote:
Sorry bit she did
Activity
Third Flight CHS-CHS
Airline
Vistara
Registration
N9674N
Callsign
BOE602
Hex
AD7918
Date & Time
Jun 30 2022 13:58-15:08 UTC

Definitely not VT-TSO, it flew out to SKF a while ago and hasn‘t come back. 602 is a blank Oman.

chrisnh · Tue Jul 19, 2022 3:14 pm

Oman A40-SL is up over us near CHS at the moment, operating as BOE602. I will hopefully get a photo when she comes back around.

chrisnh · Tue Jul 19, 2022 3:49 pm

A40-SL over the house

https://photos.app.goo.gl/2aEN3nubKp7GVyZa8

https://photos.app.goo.gl/GfKEHWFU5XoN8efE6

Opus99 · Thu Jul 21, 2022 12:58 pm

https://twitter.com/byerussell/status/1 ... BA4E_zjtSA

American expecting early august delivery of 787s

Bert65 · Fri Jul 22, 2022 12:13 pm

Movements 07-21-2022:

LN1036 LOT N8290V/SP-LSH (NTU?) 787-9, test (twenty-ninth) flight at CHS
LN1061 American Airlines N876AL 787-8, thirtheenth flight and second costumer acceptance flight at PAE
LN1099 American Airlines N880BJ 787-8, eighth flight at CHS

Bert65 · Sat Jul 23, 2022 9:30 am

Movements 07-22-2022:

LN1062 ANA JA902A 787-10, ninth flight at PAE
LN1091 ANA N880BA/JA935A 787-9, seventh flight at CHS

UAEflyer · Mon Jul 25, 2022 9:32 am

any 787BBJ stored in VCV ? or any in production line at the moment

jfk777 · Mon Jul 25, 2022 2:19 pm

Bert65 wrote:
Movements 07-22-2022:

LN1062 ANA JA902A 787-10, ninth flight at PAE
LN1091 ANA N880BA/JA935A 787-9, seventh flight at CHS

ANA with GE Engines ?

ikolkyo · Mon Jul 25, 2022 2:23 pm

jfk777 wrote:
Bert65 wrote:
Movements 07-22-2022:

LN1062 ANA JA902A 787-10, ninth flight at PAE
LN1091 ANA N880BA/JA935A 787-9, seventh flight at CHS

ANA with GE Engines ?

ANA switched to GE with their last round of 787 orders, they currently have 2 789s with GE engines that they received before the grounding.

Bert65 · Mon Jul 25, 2022 2:47 pm

Movements of 07-23-22 and 07-24-22:

07-23:
LN1091 ANA N880BA/JA935A, eighth flight; a ferry flight from CHS to PAE

No movements on 07-24.

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