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qf789
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Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2022

Fri Dec 31, 2021 12:50 pm

Welcome to the Boeing 777X Production/Testing Thread - 2022. Please continue to add your comments below

Link to last thread

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1455929&p=22578865&hilit=production#p22578865
 
Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2022

Sat Jan 15, 2022 10:18 am

http://kpae.blogspot.com/2022/01/paine- ... ry-14.html

WH003 will have an engine check flight on Monday.

Last we heard from WH003 it was getting a new pair of upgraded engines.

I assume. This is to continue/begin validation of initial engine performance numbers
 
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747classic
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2022

Sat Jan 15, 2022 7:33 pm

The momentary last assembled 777-9, L/N 1688, WH057, destined for Emirates, out of the factory at January 12th 2022
Image

Original uploaded by Matt Cawby at twitter, see : https://twitter.com/mattcawby/status/14 ... 4475207681

After this 777-9 aircraft, all line numbers (known up to now) are allocated again to "old " 777's again (2x 777-300ER, 1x 777-200LR and the rest 777F's.)

Curious at what line number the 777-9 assembly will be re-started !
 
Cardude2
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2022

Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:05 am

747classic wrote:
The momentary last assembled 777-9, L/N 1688, WH057, destined for Emirates, out of the factory at January 12th 2022
Image

Original uploaded by Matt Cawby at twitter, see : https://twitter.com/mattcawby/status/14 ... 4475207681

After this 777-9 aircraft, all line numbers (known up to now) are allocated again to "old " 777's again (2x 777-300ER, 1x 777-200LR and the rest 777F's.)

Curious at what line number the 777-9 assembly will be re-started !


wait hold up, 2x 777-300ER, 1x 777-200LR? Private jets or PIA?
 
Spetsnaz55
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2022

Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:33 am

747classic wrote:
The momentary last assembled 777-9, L/N 1688, WH057, destined for Emirates, out of the factory at January 12th 2022
Image

Original uploaded by Matt Cawby at twitter, see : https://twitter.com/mattcawby/status/14 ... 4475207681

After this 777-9 aircraft, all line numbers (known up to now) are allocated again to "old " 777's again (2x 777-300ER, 1x 777-200LR and the rest 777F's.)

Curious at what line number the 777-9 assembly will be re-started !


Next 777-9 at 1716. And I asked about 2 777 300er a while back. Curious who ordered them
 
airsmiles
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2022

Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:15 am

Spetsnaz55 wrote:

Next 777-9 at 1716. And I asked about 2 777 300er a while back. Curious who ordered them


Do you know the line numbers of the two 777-300ER’s?
 
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747classic
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2022

Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:49 am

I meant the following :

After L/N 1688, the pictured 777-9, two 777-300ER's are already produced as L/N 1690 (THAI AIRWAYS HS-TTC ntu) and L/N 1695 ( Aeroflot VP-BFC ) .
Also after L/N 1688 one last 777-200LR was also produced as L/N 1691 ( TURKMENISTAN EZ-A780 )
All others assembled up to now are 777-F aircraft.

@ Spetnaz : Is L/N 1716 not the second ordered EK 777F ? L/N 1713 being the first ordered EK 777F.
Two 777F's were ordered by EK in November 2021, see : https://boeing.mediaroom.com/2021-11-15 ... Freighters
 
Cardude2
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2022

Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:51 am

747classic wrote:
I meant the following :

After L/N 1688, the pictured 777-9, two 777-300ER's are already produced as L/N 1690 (THAI AIRWAYS HS-TTC ntu) and L/N 1695 ( Aeroflot VP-BFC ) .
Also after L/N 1688 one last 777-200LR was also produced as L/N 1691 ( TURKMENISTAN EZ-A780 )
All others assembled up to now are 777-F aircraft.

@ Spetnaz : Is L/N 1716 not the second ordered EK 777F ? L/N 1713 being the first ordered EK 777F.
Two 777F's were ordered by EK in November 2021, see : https://boeing.mediaroom.com/2021-11-15 ... Freighters


thanks for the clarification
 
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MoKa777
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2022

Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:55 am

747classic wrote:
...two 777-300ER's are already produced as L/N 1690 (THAI AIRWAYS HS-TTC ntu)...


What will happen with this frame? This may have already been discussed and I just missed it.
 
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RobK
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2022

Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:03 pm

747classic wrote:
@ Spetnaz : Is L/N 1716 not the second ordered EK 777F ? L/N 1713 being the first ordered EK 777F.
Two 777F's were ordered by EK in November 2021, see : https://boeing.mediaroom.com/2021-11-15 ... Freighters


Why are you asking this AGAIN ? You already saw my post in the 777 thread where I posted the info as you replied straight after it. Asking a different person in a different thread is not going to result in a different answer. If you prefer to ignore what's been posted and believe that 1716 is an EK freighter then crack on..
 
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RobK
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2022

Sun Jan 16, 2022 4:03 pm

747classic wrote:
I meant the following :

After L/N 1688, the pictured 777-9, two 777-300ER's are already produced as L/N 1690 (THAI AIRWAYS HS-TTC ntu)


"ntu"

Source?
 
MD80MKE
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2022

Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:15 pm

747classic wrote:
I meant the following :

After L/N 1688, the pictured 777-9, two 777-300ER's are already produced as L/N 1690 (THAI AIRWAYS HS-TTC ntu) and L/N 1695 ( Aeroflot VP-BFC ) .
Also after L/N 1688 one last 777-200LR was also produced as L/N 1691 ( TURKMENISTAN EZ-A780 )
All others assembled up to now are 777-F aircraft.

@ Spetnaz : Is L/N 1716 not the second ordered EK 777F ? L/N 1713 being the first ordered EK 777F.
Two 777F's were ordered by EK in November 2021, see : https://boeing.mediaroom.com/2021-11-15 ... Freighters


Why are posting the 77Ws that have been produced a long time ago and even some have already been delivered? Was there any updates on those 77Ws? I thought this was a production thread not on the ones already delivered??? Or am I missing something here?
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2022

Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:45 pm

MD80MKE wrote:

Why are posting the 77Ws that have been produced a long time ago and even some have already been delivered? Was there any updates on those 77Ws? I thought this was a production thread not on the ones already delivered??? Or am I missing something here?


Answering the question raised in reply #4
 
Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2022

Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:42 am

https://leehamnews.com/2022/01/27/emira ... difficult/

“Despite vociferously criticizing Boeing over delays, technical difficulties and uncertainties over certification, delivery dates and performance, the president of Emirates Airline said the carrier is committed to the 777X.
Tim Clark said industry talk that Emirates may swap orders for the 777X for additional Boeing 787s isn’t correct.“

Tim Clark also plans to retire within the next 6 months
 
morrisond
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2022

Thu Jan 27, 2022 6:00 pm

In this article from Flight Global they mention that all engine and performance testing was complete, according to CFO Brian West.

https://www.flightglobal.com/airframers ... 75.article

Anyone heard any rumours on how good or bad it is?
 
Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2022

Thu Jan 27, 2022 6:02 pm

morrisond wrote:
In this article from Flight Global they mention that all engine and performance testing was complete, according to CFO Brian West.

https://www.flightglobal.com/airframers ... 75.article

Anyone heard any rumours on how good or bad it is?

Apparently it was good. At least that’s what Boeing says. Says that customers love the 777X economics which is part of what prompts them to bring the freighter to market. But that’s what Boeing says. Nothing to doubt it’s not in line with customers are seeing.

Also seeing as emirates are now not looking to switch 777xs with 787s
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2022

Thu Jan 27, 2022 6:24 pm

Wow 1800hrs in the 777X program, a lot more than I was expecting. All this nonsense with the FAA pushing delivery targets so far out is nuts.
 
FluidFlow
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2022

Thu Jan 27, 2022 6:29 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
Wow 1800hrs in the 777X program, a lot more than I was expecting. All this nonsense with the FAA pushing delivery targets so far out is nuts.


As a comparison the 330neo needed 1400hrs but it had way less changes so the 1800h does seem in line.
 
morrisond
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2022

Thu Jan 27, 2022 6:36 pm

Opus99 wrote:
morrisond wrote:
In this article from Flight Global they mention that all engine and performance testing was complete, according to CFO Brian West.

https://www.flightglobal.com/airframers ... 75.article

Anyone heard any rumours on how good or bad it is?

Apparently it was good. At least that’s what Boeing says. Says that customers love the 777X economics which is part of what prompts them to bring the freighter to market. But that’s what Boeing says. Nothing to doubt it’s not in line with customers are seeing.

Also seeing as emirates are now not looking to switch 777xs with 787s


Emirates is looking to switch 787 to 777X or the other way which was what is what before wasn't it?
 
Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2022

Thu Jan 27, 2022 6:41 pm

morrisond wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
morrisond wrote:
In this article from Flight Global they mention that all engine and performance testing was complete, according to CFO Brian West.

https://www.flightglobal.com/airframers ... 75.article

Anyone heard any rumours on how good or bad it is?

Apparently it was good. At least that’s what Boeing says. Says that customers love the 777X economics which is part of what prompts them to bring the freighter to market. But that’s what Boeing says. Nothing to doubt it’s not in line with customers are seeing.

Also seeing as emirates are now not looking to switch 777xs with 787s


Emirates is looking to switch 787 to 777X or the other way which was what is what before wasn't it?

Switch 777X to 787 but Tim Clark confirms to Leeham that that was never the case actually
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2022

Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:02 pm

FluidFlow wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
Wow 1800hrs in the 777X program, a lot more than I was expecting. All this nonsense with the FAA pushing delivery targets so far out is nuts.


As a comparison the 330neo needed 1400hrs but it had way less changes so the 1800h does seem in line.


Well 1800hrs have already been complete, but it's not going to enter service for another 2 years so there will be many more hours added on.
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2022

Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:13 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
FluidFlow wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
Wow 1800hrs in the 777X program, a lot more than I was expecting. All this nonsense with the FAA pushing delivery targets so far out is nuts.


As a comparison the 330neo needed 1400hrs but it had way less changes so the 1800h does seem in line.


Well 1800hrs have already been complete, but it's not going to enter service for another 2 years so there will be many more hours added on.

That does not necessarily follow. For instance the 737-7 finished its test flying in October 2021 ( ref: http://www.b737.org.uk/maxflttestprog.htm ) and we still have no idea when FAA will finish their certification work.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2022

Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:20 pm

Revelation wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
FluidFlow wrote:

As a comparison the 330neo needed 1400hrs but it had way less changes so the 1800h does seem in line.


Well 1800hrs have already been complete, but it's not going to enter service for another 2 years so there will be many more hours added on.

That does not necessarily follow. For instance the 737-7 finished its test flying in October 2021 ( ref: http://www.b737.org.uk/maxflttestprog.htm ) and we still have no idea when FAA will finish their certification work.

What suggest that 777X test flying is done? IIRC the delay to 2023 was due to some sort certification requirements set on by the FAA.
 
StTim
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2022

Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:28 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
Revelation wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:

Well 1800hrs have already been complete, but it's not going to enter service for another 2 years so there will be many more hours added on.

That does not necessarily follow. For instance the 737-7 finished its test flying in October 2021 ( ref: http://www.b737.org.uk/maxflttestprog.htm ) and we still have no idea when FAA will finish their certification work.

What suggest that 777X test flying is done? IIRC the delay to 2023 was due to some sort certification requirements set on by the FAA.


As the certification process has been somewhat ad-hoc so far (given the changing process) there is no doubt that the flight test hours will be much higher than planned, and probably much higher than equivalent campaigns.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2022

Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:30 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
Revelation wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
Well 1800hrs have already been complete, but it's not going to enter service for another 2 years so there will be many more hours added on.

That does not necessarily follow. For instance the 737-7 finished its test flying in October 2021 ( ref: http://www.b737.org.uk/maxflttestprog.htm ) and we still have no idea when FAA will finish their certification work.

What suggest that 777X test flying is done? IIRC the delay to 2023 was due to some sort certification requirements set on by the FAA.

IMO nothing we know stipulates it is or is not done. My point was IMO the EIS date is not directly linked to end of flight test, otherwise MAX-7 would be EIS a long time ago.
 
morrisond
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2022

Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:07 pm

For 777X even though engine and performance testing might be done - they would still have to do all the long range and ETOPS flights - would they not? Then verify any systems changes brought on by the new scrutiny.

At least it give them a lot of time to get the bugs out.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2022

Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:13 pm

Revelation wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
Revelation wrote:
That does not necessarily follow. For instance the 737-7 finished its test flying in October 2021 ( ref: http://www.b737.org.uk/maxflttestprog.htm ) and we still have no idea when FAA will finish their certification work.

What suggest that 777X test flying is done? IIRC the delay to 2023 was due to some sort certification requirements set on by the FAA.

IMO nothing we know stipulates it is or is not done. My point was IMO the EIS date is not directly linked to end of flight test, otherwise MAX-7 would be EIS a long time ago.


I get what you're saying but this isn't the 737 MAX we are talking about here, take is a whole different type of deal. Lets just think logically here, the reports of the FAA on the 777X in the past have indicated a desire for more flight testing on certain aspects of the aircraft. If flight testing is done what in the world would take 2 years to get this aircraft certified? I think it's pretty obvious it isn't.
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2022

Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:23 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
If flight testing is done what in the world would take 2 years to get this aircraft certified? I think it's pretty obvious it isn't.

IMO it's not obvious in either case (MAX or 777X). IMO it's not clear the delay means more flight test hours for 777X than any other major derivative. IMO a lot of it could be ground test or paperwork analysis exercises. IMO that could be what is happening to MAX-7.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2022

Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:30 pm

Revelation wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
If flight testing is done what in the world would take 2 years to get this aircraft certified? I think it's pretty obvious it isn't.

IMO it's not obvious in either case (MAX or 777X). IMO it's not clear the delay means more flight test hours for 777X than any other major derivative. IMO a lot of it could be ground test or paperwork analysis exercises. IMO that could be what is happening to MAX-7.


IMO, using what we know, it's not done. That is all.
 
FluidFlow
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2022

Fri Jan 28, 2022 6:33 am

ikolkyo wrote:
FluidFlow wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
Wow 1800hrs in the 777X program, a lot more than I was expecting. All this nonsense with the FAA pushing delivery targets so far out is nuts.


As a comparison the 330neo needed 1400hrs but it had way less changes so the 1800h does seem in line.


Well 1800hrs have already been complete, but it's not going to enter service for another 2 years so there will be many more hours added on.


When we look at the 787, that needed over 3000h. So between a very simple derivative (A330) and a completely new aircraft (787) we will be somewhere in the 2'200-2'300h of test flying. This is no surprise is the 77X some weird hyprid that is pushed into a derivative even though so much got changed it should be a fresh certification. So we end up with a relatively long fight test campaign for a derivative.
 
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747classic
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2022

Fri Jan 28, 2022 7:44 am

For comparison : The 747-8F program, also a derative aircraft with increased length and new wing profile, took 3.290,52 flight test hours , additional for the 747-8I 1.093,05 flight test hours.

Cummulative Flight Time by Aircraft

. Aircraft ---------- Flight Time ----- Number of Test Flights
. RC501/N747EX --- 868.60 ----- 354
. RC521/N5017Q --- 696.12 ----- 235
. RC522/N50217 --- 722.57 ----- 254
. RC503/N5573S --- 420.10 ----- 230
. RC523/N6009F --- 583.13 ----- 156
. RC001/N6067E --- 574.20 ----- 200
. RC021/N6067U --- 319.75 ----- 84
. RC003/N5020K --- 199.10 ----- 31
.
. Total 4,383.57 1,544

Note : Boeing's target was to gain FAA and EASA certification in the fourth quarter of 2010 after a 3,700-hour test program, of which around 1,600 will be flight hours and 2,100 ground test hours. The campaign initially would have used only three test aircraft.
 
Noshow
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2022

Fri Jan 28, 2022 9:22 am

Whenever the wing is different I support a full size evaluation. This clearly goes beyond a traditional derivative and is not as simple as 777-200 to 777-300 or similar.
 
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747classic
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2022

Fri Jan 28, 2022 9:58 am

Noshow wrote:
Whenever the wing is different I support a full size evaluation. This clearly goes beyond a traditional derivative and is not as simple as 777-200 to 777-300 or similar.


The entire new wing and center wing box of the 777X required for that reason complete ground tests (static load test and fatigue testing).
Because the 748 wingbox/center wing box structure remained the same (only increased strength), no additional structural ground tests were needed.
However the amount of required flight test hours are approx equal, because the wing platform and/or wing profile has been changed at both derivative aircraft.
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2022

Fri Jan 28, 2022 1:41 pm

StTim wrote:
As the certification process has been somewhat ad-hoc so far (given the changing process) there is no doubt that the flight test hours will be much higher than planned, and probably much higher than equivalent campaigns.

Do you have any links or data to share, or should we treat this as your opinion?

Personally I feel we do have reason to think the program will take longer than they expected because Boeing has told us exactly that, but I don't see the grounds for the assertion that there is "no doubt" that flight test hours will be "much higher" than planned as you claim.
 
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Polot
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2022

Fri Jan 28, 2022 2:41 pm

Revelation wrote:
StTim wrote:
As the certification process has been somewhat ad-hoc so far (given the changing process) there is no doubt that the flight test hours will be much higher than planned, and probably much higher than equivalent campaigns.

Do you have any links or data to share, or should we treat this as your opinion?

Personally I feel we do have reason to think the program will take longer than they expected because Boeing has told us exactly that, but I don't see the grounds for the assertion that there is "no doubt" that flight test hours will be "much higher" than planned as you claim.

I don’t think there is really any controversy in saying that the 777X flight test will require more flight hours than what Boeing was expecting/planning back at say 777X rollout in 2019.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2022

Fri Jan 28, 2022 3:03 pm

Polot wrote:
I don’t think there is really any controversy in saying that the 777X flight test will require more flight hours than what Boeing was expecting/planning back at say 777X rollout in 2019.

Fine, yet the conversation should be fact based as our forum rules say it needs to be.

If one is expressing an opinion then let's just say we are, or provide data/links if we are not.

I'll even help.

Seattle Times quotes the now-famous FAA letter:

The FAA’s letter told Boeing that because of the gaps in the 777X technical data, it anticipates a significant increase in the required level of testing and analysis, “and the potential to increase the number of certification flight tests that will need to take place.”

Ref: https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... ification/

IMO "the potential to increase the number of certification flight tests" does not equate to "the flight test hours will be much higher than planned, and probably much higher than equivalent campaigns". I don't think it's controversial to suggest that a lot of the 'testing and analysis" happens on the ground.

If you read whole the article and not the headline, IMO a lot of the things FAA complain about were paper trail kinds of things and/or overall readiness for flight testing. IMO very important things to get resolved, but not necessarily resulting in "much higher" flight testing. IMO the things they were talking about typically get sorted out ahead of flight testing. AFAIK we all know that lot of the risk in the software gets retired on the ground, not in the air. The overall article suggests to me at least that FAA's main concern was Boeing was wanting to start flight testing before FAA felt their concerns were resolved.
 
StTim
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2022

Fri Jan 28, 2022 3:43 pm

Revelation wrote:
StTim wrote:
As the certification process has been somewhat ad-hoc so far (given the changing process) there is no doubt that the flight test hours will be much higher than planned, and probably much higher than equivalent campaigns.

Do you have any links or data to share, or should we treat this as your opinion?

Personally I feel we do have reason to think the program will take longer than they expected because Boeing has told us exactly that, but I don't see the grounds for the assertion that there is "no doubt" that flight test hours will be "much higher" than planned as you claim.



It is my opinion but as new requirements are coming up they will need to be tested. Some of these will require a previously flown test cycle to be reflown (not the certification element as I have seen nothing to say these have started yet) and some will be known but could have been covered on a previously flown test.

Maybe the "much" was prejudicial but it can be no surprise that it will be higher than planned.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2022

Fri Jan 28, 2022 6:07 pm

StTim wrote:
It is my opinion but as new requirements are coming up they will need to be tested. Some of these will require a previously flown test cycle to be reflown (not the certification element as I have seen nothing to say these have started yet) and some will be known but could have been covered on a previously flown test.

Maybe the "much" was prejudicial but it can be no surprise that it will be higher than planned.

Thank you for the nice reply.

From the ST article I just linked:

The letter denies Boeing a specific approval for the 777-9X called “Type Inspection Authorization” readiness. Without this, Boeing cannot put FAA personnel on board flight tests and begin to collect certification data.

I agree that we've seen nothing saying certification testing has started, so wonder how we can say things need to be re-flown or even guess at the magnitude if such cases exist.
 
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Stitch
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2022

Fri Jan 28, 2022 6:34 pm

In July 2021, the FAA claimed that “the technical data required for type certification has not reached a point where it appears the aircraft type design is mature and can be expected to meet the applicable regulations" and they noted that Boeing might have to increase the number of test flights planned and therefore Type Certification would likely not happen until 2023.

So Boeing's flight testing is collecting data, but that data has discovered issues (like the uncommanded pitch event) that the FAA feels Boeing has not yet addressed to their satisfaction to the point they feel comfortable allowing Boeing to formally begin type certifying the model.
 
StTim
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2022

Fri Jan 28, 2022 7:48 pm

Revelation wrote:

From the ST article I just linked:

The letter denies Boeing a specific approval for the 777-9X called “Type Inspection Authorization” readiness. Without this, Boeing cannot put FAA personnel on board flight tests and begin to collect certification data.

I agree that we've seen nothing saying certification testing has started, so wonder how we can say things need to be re-flown or even guess at the magnitude if such cases exist.


For clarity I take the flight test campaign to include all the test flying of which only a relatively small part of which is official certification flights. I agree these are not yet flown as the FAA has yet to approve their staff to fly on the 777X, but those that Boeing (or any manufacturer) fly to prove they will meet the certification requirements are what I was including.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2022

Fri Jan 28, 2022 9:05 pm

StTim wrote:
For clarity I take the flight test campaign to include all the test flying of which only a relatively small part of which is official certification flights. I agree these are not yet flown as the FAA has yet to approve their staff to fly on the 777X, but those that Boeing (or any manufacturer) fly to prove they will meet the certification requirements are what I was including.

Thank you for the clarification.

I'll point out that I'm still not seeing a basis for quantification of the size of the current 777X flight test program relative to either Boeing's original plans (which I presume were/are unpublished but data/links are welcomed) nor anything we might deem to be similar programs (some data was just presented for 747-8 which may be deemed similar).
 
JayinKitsap
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2022

Sat Jan 29, 2022 5:27 am

All of these rumblings between the FAA and Boeing about being at the point where “Type Inspection Authorization” can occur has to do with the tightening around certification. I believe previously, grandfathering was 'abused' in that things that were not changed could be 'waived off' as previously certified. Well integrating a new controls system, doing new power systems, as well as load alleviation all really depend of the actual performance of the device, its tolerances, its speed, etc. The device doesn't need to be recertified if performing similar function, but the analysis better know the actual amp draw of the actuator at peak force, not an estimate based on paperwork now 30 years old. Can't have an accurate digital model with tons of black boxes everywhere, it just means poor output. The FAA is probably actually doing their job and really reviewing the certification documents.

Certification of the 77X is probably much closer to a clean sheet than a major change. It has probably taken a complete rework of the documents and design to dot each i and cross each t. If even a 1/3 of this had been done with the Max, the MCAS fiasco would have been caught during certification.
 
Aircellist
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2022

Sun Jan 30, 2022 3:34 am

In a curious way that paper trail story reminds me of the Europrop delay when the paper trail could not be traced well enough to certify the engine…
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2022

Mon Feb 07, 2022 4:14 am

N779XW is in SIN for the Singapore Air Show, about a 17 hour flight for the big jet. https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airc ... w#2ab97828
 
EK7777
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2022

Tue Mar 01, 2022 9:04 am

The 777X flight test program has officially completed over 2,000 flight hours as of 28th February 2022.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... _GfzQnDhA/
 
Noshow
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2022

Tue Mar 01, 2022 9:20 am

When will the certification phase begin and what is still delaying it?
 
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Stitch
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2022

Tue Mar 01, 2022 2:45 pm

Noshow wrote:
When will the certification phase begin and what is still delaying it?


Boeing is still waiting for Type Inspection Authorization (TIA) Readiness from the FAA, which is the point when the FAA will allow their staff aboard and approve certification flight test plans.
 
Noshow
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2022

Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:09 am

Is this some administrative delay by the FAA not getting required new specialist units hired or working or is there any technical squawk or glitch that prevents TIA or does Boeing wait for something like some final configuration equipment, modification or similar?
The 777X did airshows and extreme maneuvers, it flew all those hours, visited global customers and still there is no TIA yet? Why does it take that long? What does take that long?
 
Oykie
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2022

Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:35 am

With all the delays with FAA lately I’m curious myself. They are not able to perform anything on schedule. Space X are delayed because of FAA, Bell helicopter is delayed because of FAA. 5G. Either there must be too much innovation in the U.S. right now, or FAA has some huge problems. this is not just with TIA on Boeing 777X.
 
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747classic
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2022

Wed Mar 02, 2022 11:50 am

This is the result of years of reduced budgets for the FAA, caused by political (R) decisions to reduce the federal spending and outsource more and more tasks to the industry (read : OEM, Boeing in this case), so the "police task"of the FAA became less and less.
The present FAA is still short of manpower, expertice and money but due the 737MAX issues, doesn't take any risk anymore, and will redefine all certification requirements, especially "grandfather" issues.
With above mentioned limited resources this will take (a lot of) time !
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