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Aresxerexade
Posts: 634
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2020 7:08 pm

Re: Air France/KLM News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 7:56 am

factsonly wrote:
mercure1 wrote:
KLM had another meltdown at AMS this weekend. About 50 flights were canceled.



I'd call this a little hysterical exaggeration!

Let's consider the facts:

- KLM cancelled 21 return services (7%) due to staff shortages and operated 288 return flights on Saturday May 21st.
- KLM cancelled 20 return services (6%) due to staff shortages and operated 307 return flights on Sunday May 22nd.
- BA cancelled 20% of its AMS services on Saturday, and 25% of its AMS services on Sunday, due to staff shortages.
- OS cancelled 25% of its AMS services on Saturday.
- LH cancelled 17% of its AMS services on Saturday,

Yes, airlines in many parts of the world are suffering post-COVID staff shortages and as a result have to cancel some planned operations.
It may not be what we were used to, but labour shortages are currently a fact of life in many industries.

Source: Schiphol Airport flight data.


Agreed. Sensationalism
 
Eikie
Posts: 274
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Re: Air France/KLM News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 2:59 pm

factsonly wrote:
mercure1 wrote:
KLM had another meltdown at AMS this weekend. About 50 flights were canceled.



I'd call this a little hysterical exaggeration!

Let's consider the facts:

- KLM cancelled 21 return services (7%) due to staff shortages and operated 288 return flights on Saturday May 21st.
- KLM cancelled 20 return services (6%) due to staff shortages and operated 307 return flights on Sunday May 22nd.
- BA cancelled 20% of its AMS services on Saturday, and 25% of its AMS services on Sunday, due to staff shortages.
- OS cancelled 25% of its AMS services on Saturday.
- LH cancelled 17% of its AMS services on Saturday,

Yes, airlines in many parts of the world are suffering post-COVID staff shortages and as a result have to cancel some planned operations.
It may not be what we were used to, but labour shortages are currently a fact of life in many industries.

Source: Schiphol Airport flight data.

And most are not because of staff shortages at KLM (although they do have that too), but at the airport, which just can't accomodate as many flights as requested.
 
RMTAviation
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Re: Air France/KLM News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 4:33 pm

Does it make sense if Air France transfer's their 789's to KLM?
 
Berven1
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Re: Air France/KLM News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 8:19 pm

RMTAviation wrote:
Does it make sense if Air France transfer's their 789's to KLM?


Yes, it may indeed be possible that all 787-9s will go from Air France to KLM and Air France will be able to order additional Airbus A 350-900s or A350-1000s from Airbus. Because the deliveries of Boeing 787s have been delayed for a while due to quality problems at Boeing. Boeing is currently under FAA supervision over problems with Boeing 737-MAX7 and Boeing 737-MAX10. It is therefore not wrong that KLM-AF can or wants to order more aircraft from Airbus, as a result of which, last December, it placed a mega order with Airbus for Airbus A320NEO and Airbus A321NEO.

I think that KLM will fly again with Boeing narrobody aircraft in the distant future if they want to replace Airbus A320/321NEO in the long run. I see Airbus A320NEO and Airbus A321NEO emergency solution for KLM and Transavia because at the moment they cannot trust Boeing that they could deliver Boeing 737-MAX10 to KLM on time. Certainly in this case, KLM and Transavia were very interested in Boeing 737-MAX10 and they could also order Boeing 737-MAX8 if there were no problems. The cause is clear that Boeing and the FAA are not recertifying Boeing 737-MAX7 and Boeing 737-MAX10 in time for use. In particular, Boeing itself is also to blame for causing it as a result of many customers turning away from Boeing for orders for Boeing 737-MAX. While that little new orders are coming to Boeing is mostly Boeing 737-MAX8(-200) and Boeing 737-MAX10.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Air France/KLM News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 8:58 pm

RMTAviation wrote:
Does it make sense if Air France transfer's their 789's to KLM?


It’s possible but I think we will see more 787s for AF once Boeing gets going again, without them there would be quite the gap between the A332 and A359 would be massive.
 
FlyingHonu001
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Re: Air France/KLM News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Tue May 24, 2022 6:18 am

RMTAviation wrote:
Does it make sense if Air France transfer's their 789's to KLM?


KL still has some 781's waiting to be delivered from Boeing. If they run out of capacity for some reason because of this back order, it might not be a bad idea
 
Nola
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Re: Air France/KLM News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Tue May 24, 2022 3:57 pm

 
rjbesikof
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Re: Air France/KLM News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Tue May 24, 2022 4:14 pm

NW22 U.S. Network Update for KLM:
-AUS-AMS becomes year round (remains 3x weekly).
-LAX-AMS second flight (KL603/KL604) will also go year round but will operate at 3x weekly in the winter.
-ORD-AMS goes daily in the winter.
 
Blerg
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Re: Air France/KLM News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Tue May 24, 2022 4:36 pm

rjbesikof wrote:
NW22 U.S. Network Update for KLM:
-AUS-AMS becomes year round (remains 3x weekly).
-LAX-AMS second flight (KL603/KL604) will also go year round but will operate at 3x weekly in the winter.
-ORD-AMS goes daily in the winter.


I am almost certain their recently added BEG flights contributed to ORD's success. Demand is not small since Chicago is said to be Serbia's second largest city after Belgrade. So far LH Group has profited the most from this.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Air France/KLM News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Tue May 24, 2022 4:41 pm

Air France-KLM has launched a €2.3bn capital increase aiming to strengthen the company’s balance sheet. The company will issue 1,928 million new shares.
The net proceeds of the issue will be partially allocated to repaying the bonds held by the French State.

https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/ ... 022-05-24/
 
FlyingHonu001
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Re: Air France/KLM News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Tue May 24, 2022 6:25 pm

Premium Comfort and renewed direct-aisle World Business Class 772 - 77W for KL announced at Annual Shareholders Meeting.
:bouncy:


Image

Source: https://www.airfranceklm.com/en/finance ... al-meeting
 
sabby
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Re: Air France/KLM News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Tue May 24, 2022 6:47 pm

FlyingHonu001 wrote:
Premium Comfort and renewed direct-aisle World Business Class 772 - 77W for KL announced at Annual Shareholders Meeting.
:bouncy:


Image

Source: https://www.airfranceklm.com/en/finance ... al-meeting


I couldn't find it on your link. But that is good news indeed. Surprising that they are refurbishing the old 77Es (avergae 19-20 years) while returning the much newer A330s.
 
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Polot
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Re: Air France/KLM News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Tue May 24, 2022 6:56 pm

sabby wrote:
FlyingHonu001 wrote:
Premium Comfort and renewed direct-aisle World Business Class 772 - 77W for KL announced at Annual Shareholders Meeting.
:bouncy:


Image

Source: https://www.airfranceklm.com/en/finance ... al-meeting


I couldn't find it on your link. But that is good news indeed. Surprising that they are refurbishing the old 77Es (avergae 19-20 years) while returning the much newer A330s.

Phasing out the A330 eliminates a type and more importantly a pilot group. The 777/787 pilots are combined at KL.
 
FlyingHonu001
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Re: Air France/KLM News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Tue May 24, 2022 7:02 pm

sabby wrote:
FlyingHonu001 wrote:
Premium Comfort and renewed direct-aisle World Business Class 772 - 77W for KL announced at Annual Shareholders Meeting.
:bouncy:


Image

Source: https://www.airfranceklm.com/en/finance ... al-meeting


I couldn't find it on your link. But that is good news indeed. Surprising that they are refurbishing the old 77Es (avergae 19-20 years) while returning the much newer A330s.


Took a screenshot from the webcast, which is also linked at the very bottom of the same page. Its like the 'third generation' Business class seats for these aircraft I believe. It seems they will be staying around for a little while longer
 
jbs2886
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Re: Air France/KLM News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Tue May 24, 2022 7:21 pm

FlyingHonu001 wrote:
sabby wrote:
FlyingHonu001 wrote:
Premium Comfort and renewed direct-aisle World Business Class 772 - 77W for KL announced at Annual Shareholders Meeting.
:bouncy:


Image

Source: https://www.airfranceklm.com/en/finance ... al-meeting


I couldn't find it on your link. But that is good news indeed. Surprising that they are refurbishing the old 77Es (avergae 19-20 years) while returning the much newer A330s.


Took a screenshot from the webcast, which is also linked at the very bottom of the same page. Its like the 'third generation' Business class seats for these aircraft I believe. It seems they will be staying around for a little while longer


Anyone know if these are on the same base seat as AF?
 
FlyingHonu001
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Re: Air France/KLM News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Tue May 24, 2022 8:45 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
FlyingHonu001 wrote:
sabby wrote:

I couldn't find it on your link. But that is good news indeed. Surprising that they are refurbishing the old 77Es (avergae 19-20 years) while returning the much newer A330s.


Took a screenshot from the webcast, which is also linked at the very bottom of the same page. Its like the 'third generation' Business class seats for these aircraft I believe. It seems they will be staying around for a little while longer


Anyone know if these are on the same base seat as AF?


Possibly...AF had theirs made by Safran Seats https://www.safran-group.com/news/new-a ... 2022-05-18
KL's 789 seats were previously made by Zodiac, that later merged with Safran in 2018. So everythings coming full circle...
Last edited by FlyingHonu001 on Tue May 24, 2022 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Opus99
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Re: Air France/KLM News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Tue May 24, 2022 8:46 pm

https://twitter.com/rschuur_aero/status ... rkBHYdjGSA

New First, business and premium economy for Air France.

300ERs to get new businesss and premium economy. Seems Air France is not quite ready to let go of their 300ERs seeing as they’re investing in them.

The 300ER seems to be a very good product for high premium demand especially when we look at the likes of BA, ANA and now AF utilising or going to utilise high premium config
 
jbs2886
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Re: Air France/KLM News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Tue May 24, 2022 9:17 pm

Opus99 wrote:
https://twitter.com/rschuur_aero/status/1529147174977683457?s=21&t=MShShuKVXN0JrkBHYdjGSA

New First, business and premium economy for Air France.

300ERs to get new businesss and premium economy. Seems Air France is not quite ready to let go of their 300ERs seeing as they’re investing in them.

The 300ER seems to be a very good product for high premium demand especially when we look at the likes of BA, ANA and now AF utilising or going to utilise high premium config


FlyingHonu001 wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
FlyingHonu001 wrote:

Took a screenshot from the webcast, which is also linked at the very bottom of the same page. Its like the 'third generation' Business class seats for these aircraft I believe. It seems they will be staying around for a little while longer


Anyone know if these are on the same base seat as AF?


Possibly...AF had theirs made by Safran Seats https://www.safran-group.com/news/new-a ... 2022-05-18
KL's 789 seats were previously made by Zodiac, that later merged with Safran in 2018. So everythings coming full circle...


Business seats look the same. But PE does look different, but could just be customization.
 
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Polot
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Re: Air France/KLM News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Tue May 24, 2022 9:30 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
https://twitter.com/rschuur_aero/status/1529147174977683457?s=21&t=MShShuKVXN0JrkBHYdjGSA

New First, business and premium economy for Air France.

300ERs to get new businesss and premium economy. Seems Air France is not quite ready to let go of their 300ERs seeing as they’re investing in them.

The 300ER seems to be a very good product for high premium demand especially when we look at the likes of BA, ANA and now AF utilising or going to utilise high premium config


FlyingHonu001 wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:

Anyone know if these are on the same base seat as AF?


Possibly...AF had theirs made by Safran Seats https://www.safran-group.com/news/new-a ... 2022-05-18
KL's 789 seats were previously made by Zodiac, that later merged with Safran in 2018. So everythings coming full circle...


Business seats look the same. But PE does look different, but could just be customization.

I think PE is the same seat as well. KL’s photo looks exactly like AF’s A350 PE (just different fabric color obviously). AF says the new 777 PE is the same seats as on the A350, although the seat backs look a little different (it looks like they are incased in a white shell almost) but that could just be render.
 
jbs2886
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Re: Air France/KLM News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Tue May 24, 2022 9:30 pm

AF-KLM to start search to replace 747Fs. The A350Fs on order are for expansion and to replace the 2 777Fs at AF. The A350F, 777F, and 777XF are under consideration. Personally I am hoping for the 777XF!

https://www.scramble.nl/civil-news/air- ... eplacement
 
jbs2886
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Re: Air France/KLM News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Tue May 24, 2022 9:31 pm

Polot wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
https://twitter.com/rschuur_aero/status/1529147174977683457?s=21&t=MShShuKVXN0JrkBHYdjGSA

New First, business and premium economy for Air France.

300ERs to get new businesss and premium economy. Seems Air France is not quite ready to let go of their 300ERs seeing as they’re investing in them.

The 300ER seems to be a very good product for high premium demand especially when we look at the likes of BA, ANA and now AF utilising or going to utilise high premium config


FlyingHonu001 wrote:

Possibly...AF had theirs made by Safran Seats https://www.safran-group.com/news/new-a ... 2022-05-18
KL's 789 seats were previously made by Zodiac, that later merged with Safran in 2018. So everythings coming full circle...


Business seats look the same. But PE does look different, but could just be customization.

I think PE is the same seat as well. KL’s photo looks exactly like AF’s A350 PE (just different fabric color obviously). AF says the new 777 PE is the same seats as on the A350, although the seat backs look a little different (it looks like they are incased in a white shell almost) but that could just be render.


The solid back looked different to me on AF - but very well good be the same (I was flipping back and forth between images).
 
Cardude2
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Re: Air France/KLM News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Tue May 24, 2022 9:35 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
AF-KLM to start search to replace 747Fs. The A350Fs on order are for expansion and to replace the 2 777Fs at AF. The A350F, 777F, and 777XF are under consideration. Personally I am hoping for the 777XF!

https://www.scramble.nl/civil-news/air- ... eplacement


who knows but whatever is ordered it will be the indicator for what KL orders for their 777-200ER replacement.

Has there been any talk amongst Martinair (the operator of the 747-400erf's were talking about replacing) of ordering new aircraft?
 
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Polot
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Re: Air France/KLM News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Tue May 24, 2022 9:37 pm

I’ll also add retrofitting the 77Ws isn’t a AF huge surprise. While they have older examples a good portion of the fleet is ~10 years old or less (with the newest ones only being 6 years old). AF isn’t really an airline that gets rid of their planes young- they are going to be operating the 77Ws for a long while still, probably at least until the end of the decade.

Cardude2 wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
AF-KLM to start search to replace 747Fs. The A350Fs on order are for expansion and to replace the 2 777Fs at AF. The A350F, 777F, and 777XF are under consideration. Personally I am hoping for the 777XF!

https://www.scramble.nl/civil-news/air- ... eplacement


who knows but whatever is ordered it will be the indicator for what KL orders for their 777-200ER replacement.

A good chunk will probably eventually be replaced by 787-10s, especially if Boeing does an ER version as rumored.
 
HL300MUC
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Re: Air France/KLM News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Tue May 24, 2022 10:03 pm

As with the passenger type i expect a top up order for the 350F.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Air France/KLM News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Tue May 24, 2022 10:05 pm

Opus99 wrote:
https://twitter.com/rschuur_aero/status/1529147174977683457?s=21&t=MShShuKVXN0JrkBHYdjGSA

New First, business and premium economy for Air France.

300ERs to get new businesss and premium economy. Seems Air France is not quite ready to let go of their 300ERs seeing as they’re investing in them.

The 300ER seems to be a very good product for high premium demand especially when we look at the likes of BA, ANA and now AF utilising or going to utilise high premium config

Their newer 77Ws are pretty nice in Economy but a bit tired up front. However, their older 77Ws Need to be done front to back.
 
FGITD
Posts: 2463
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:44 pm

Re: Air France/KLM News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Wed May 25, 2022 1:46 am

ikolkyo wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
https://twitter.com/rschuur_aero/status/1529147174977683457?s=21&t=MShShuKVXN0JrkBHYdjGSA

New First, business and premium economy for Air France.

300ERs to get new businesss and premium economy. Seems Air France is not quite ready to let go of their 300ERs seeing as they’re investing in them.

The 300ER seems to be a very good product for high premium demand especially when we look at the likes of BA, ANA and now AF utilising or going to utilise high premium config

Their newer 77Ws are pretty nice in Economy but a bit tired up front. However, their older 77Ws Need to be done front to back.


The inconsistency with the 77w seating and need for refresh apparently comes from the duration of delivery times. It was explained to me that it was cheaper to keep the aircraft as ordered (old interior) than to change the interior, potentially delaying delivery and costing more. Hard to believe but they were accepting 77w deliveries from 2004 to 2015 afterall
 
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mercure1
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Re: Air France/KLM News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Wed May 25, 2022 5:27 pm

Transavia Netherlands announced is canceling around 500 flights due to a shortage of cabin crew.

https://www.air-journal.fr/2022-05-25-t ... 36080.html
 
PaulYUL
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Re: Air France/KLM News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Wed May 25, 2022 8:57 pm

My understanding is that the refurbishing of the business class of AF 77W only affects the 12 which are still in the old configuration (2-3-2). The other have the newer business cabin with direct access to the aisle. 19 of them are in a premium heavy configuration (4F, C58, W28, Y206) and 12 in the high-density config (C14, W28, Y430). The later have Business Class seat which are staggered (similar to those on the AF A359) rather than the herringbone arrangement of the former. I had the opportunity of making several flights in that configuration and I like the cozy and intimate feeling of the small C cabin.

As mentioned in a previous post, most of the 77W which will be refurbished are among the most recent received by AF (F-GZNH to K et NP to NU). An interesting aspect of this refurbishment is a much larger W cabin with 48 seats which will also receive the new premium economy seat similar to those found in the A359. The first to be refurbished is F-GZNK which be initially used on the CDG JFK run in fall 22.

https://www.airfrancefanpage.com/post/e ... ss-sur-777
 
inkjet7
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Re: Air France/KLM News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Fri May 27, 2022 3:49 pm

HL300MUC wrote:
As with the passenger type i expect a top up order for the 350F.

For AF yes, KL will probably get more 787/777's as they can be operated by the same pilot pool.
 
FlyingHonu001
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Re: Air France/KLM News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Fri May 27, 2022 4:27 pm

Full mock-up for the new Premium Comfort Class seats were presented at the KLM Dutch Open event

See here for pics: https://insideflyer.nl/dit-is-m-de-nieu ... m-comfort/

Manufacturer will be Collins Aerospace with their MiQ range
https://www.collinsaerospace.com/what-w ... -Class/Miq

Cabin config changes:

...
Configuration:
With the introduction of the new KLM Premium Comfort Cabin, the configurations in KLM's 777 and 787 aircraft are also changing. What is striking is that the amount of Economy seats will be significantly reduced compared to the current configuration.

Boeing 787-10:
The number of economy seats will be reduced from 279 to 213. This will create space for 39 seats in Economy Comfort (previously 27). There will soon be 28 seats in Premium Comfort. There are 38 seats in World Business Class after the adjustment.

Boeing 787-9:
The capacity of Economy seats will be reduced to 176 (previously 216). Economy Comfort remains 48 seats.
There is room for 21 seats in Premium Comfort.
There are 30 seats in World Business Class.

Boeing 777-300:
Gets 266 seats in Economy (previously 334) in the new configuration.
56 Economy Comfort seats (previously 40).
24 Premium Comfort.
35 seats in World Business Class (previously 34).

Boeing 777-200:
From 246 seats to 175 seats in Economy.
Economy Comfort will go to 54 seats (previously 40).
In Premium Comfort there are 24 seats.
World Business Class will get 1 extra seat and will therefore raise 35.
...
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Air France/KLM News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Fri May 27, 2022 7:53 pm

Quite the hit in Economy across the board but I feel like it now puts KLM in line with other majors.
 
godsbeloved
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Re: Air France/KLM News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Fri May 27, 2022 10:43 pm

inkjet7 wrote:
HL300MUC wrote:
As with the passenger type i expect a top up order for the 350F.

For AF yes, KL will probably get more 787/777's as they can be operated by the same pilot pool.


Cargo is operated by Martinair, so a seperate pilot pool
 
Eikie
Posts: 274
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Re: Air France/KLM News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Sat May 28, 2022 5:33 am

godsbeloved wrote:
inkjet7 wrote:
HL300MUC wrote:
As with the passenger type i expect a top up order for the 350F.

For AF yes, KL will probably get more 787/777's as they can be operated by the same pilot pool.


Cargo is operated by Martinair, so a seperate pilot pool

Not quite...

After a courtcase, KLM has to take the martinair pilots into the main pilot pool. For now they are still separate, as the proces is still ongoing.
But combining those two pools is in the future, however KLM has to get the union to agree (which isn't likely at the moment).
 
inkjet7
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Re: Air France/KLM News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Sat May 28, 2022 11:21 am

godsbeloved wrote:
inkjet7 wrote:
HL300MUC wrote:
As with the passenger type i expect a top up order for the 350F.

For AF yes, KL will probably get more 787/777's as they can be operated by the same pilot pool.


Cargo is operated by Martinair, so a seperate pilot pool


I was referring to the 'passenger type'. But the problem is we are talking about AF and KL here and some of the posts seem to be referring to posts about the other airline ;)
So I think yes 350's for AF but 787/777 for KL. As to the freighters for KL I have no idea. Maybe the group will choose the 350 with maintenance provided by AF.
If MP's pilots will join KL's pool it would be beneficial to choose the 777.
 
Flanker7
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Re: Air France/KLM News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Sat May 28, 2022 11:36 am

The question could be, will the fright division go to france completely or will some remain in Amsterdam. If they select the A 350 as a 747 replacement then a move to Paris wouldn't surprise me.
 
mig17
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Re: Air France/KLM News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Sat May 28, 2022 12:35 pm

Considaring the timeframe (the article state that the -400BCF is 32 years old ...), it is between the A350F and the 777F. With the recent partnership annoncement between Air France - KLM and CGA-CGM, with together already 8 A350F on firm order plus some options, it is going to be difficult for Boeing to make a compelling 777-8F offer to AF-KL Group for only 4 frames. Even more since the pax 777-X at AF-KL is still a big question mark.

But why AF-KL isn't considering 777-300ERSF with it's large77W fleet as a transition solution?
 
Theseus
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Re: Air France/KLM News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Sat May 28, 2022 12:41 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
Quite the hit in Economy across the board but I feel like it now puts KLM in line with other majors.


In what sense is it becoming any worse than it already was ?
As someone who is bound to fly AF/KL regularly and mostly in Y, I have got used to making sure I fly on whatever airline they codeshare with…
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Air France/KLM News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Sat May 28, 2022 12:47 pm

Theseus wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
Quite the hit in Economy across the board but I feel like it now puts KLM in line with other majors.


In what sense is it becoming any worse than it already was ?
As someone who is bound to fly AF/KL regularly and mostly in Y, I have got used to making sure I fly on whatever airline they codeshare with…


Who said anything was worse? All I noted was the decrease in economy seats.
 
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mercure1
Posts: 6192
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:13 am

Re: Air France/KLM News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Thu Jun 16, 2022 4:45 pm

Both Air France and Transavia (France) face a potential pilot strike on 25 June over flight safety issues related to crew duty times and fatigue.
https://www.air-journal.fr/2022-06-16-a ... 36599.html

Additionally CDG based ground worker union has called for a strike starting July 1 demanding automatic EUR300 monthly raise.
https://actu.fr/ile-de-france/tremblay- ... 14293.html
 
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Heavierthanair
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Re: Air France/KLM News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Fri Jun 17, 2022 9:57 pm

Here it says the US Export/Import Bank guarantees for a loan to AF/KLM for B737's or more specifically from planes manufactuerd in Renton. What is this all about, to my knowledge there are no orders from AF/KLM for B737's. The $811 m could be for some 10-12 B737's, or maybe this is for (four?) 787's that have been sitting around there for months. Someone out there with more details?

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/us-export-import-bank-says-board-backs-811-mln-loan-guarantee-aid-boeing-sale-2022-06-17/
 
Cardude2
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Re: Air France/KLM News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Sat Jun 18, 2022 5:59 am

Heavierthanair wrote:
Here it says the US Export/Import Bank guarantees for a loan to AF/KLM for B737's or more specifically from planes manufactuerd in Renton. What is this all about, to my knowledge there are no orders from AF/KLM for B737's. The $811 m could be for some 10-12 B737's, or maybe this is for (four?) 787's that have been sitting around there for months. Someone out there with more details?

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/us-export-import-bank-says-board-backs-811-mln-loan-guarantee-aid-boeing-sale-2022-06-17/


This is for the 787, not the 737. Not sure if it's a loan to buy the planes they already ordered or a new order for both Air France and KLM to alleviate the lost capacity of KLM's a330 and maybe even replace the KLM 777-200ER and Air France A330-200.
 
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tlecam
Posts: 2079
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Re: Air France/KLM News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Sat Jun 18, 2022 2:25 pm

Cardude2 wrote:
Heavierthanair wrote:
Here it says the US Export/Import Bank guarantees for a loan to AF/KLM for B737's or more specifically from planes manufactuerd in Renton. What is this all about, to my knowledge there are no orders from AF/KLM for B737's. The $811 m could be for some 10-12 B737's, or maybe this is for (four?) 787's that have been sitting around there for months. Someone out there with more details?

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/us-export-import-bank-says-board-backs-811-mln-loan-guarantee-aid-boeing-sale-2022-06-17/


This is for the 787, not the 737. Not sure if it's a loan to buy the planes they already ordered or a new order for both Air France and KLM to alleviate the lost capacity of KLM's a330 and maybe even replace the KLM 777-200ER and Air France A330-200.


I don’t think it’s even a loan; I think ExIm is guaranteeing the loan. This typically provides a range of more favorable financing and loan T&C options, such as lower interest rates and insurance costs/surety costs. The guarantee also helps Boeing and the supply chain vendors because they can plan as if they’re getting paid even if something happens to the deal.
 
Bert65
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Re: Air France/KLM News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Sat Jun 25, 2022 1:56 pm

There are KLM 737-700s operating for Transavia Holland, these are PH-BGG, -BGH, -BGI, -BGM, -BGQ
BGG, BGM, BGQ are operating out of AMS
BGH, BGI are operating out of RTM
 
Bert65
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Re: Air France/KLM News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:49 pm

Maintenance update KLM:

738:
PH-BXA exited NWIMX F9868/27
739:
PH-BXO entered NWIMX F9867/27
 
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frigatebird
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Re: Air France/KLM News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Wed Jun 29, 2022 2:55 pm

This news was posted yesterday on Dutch aviation forum Scramble; KLM discussion thread:
Registration numbers for KLM A321neo have been reserved in the PH-AXx range. 21 A321neo for KL will be delivered between 2024 and 2027.
A320neo for KLM are planned to be delivered 2027/2028. Reg nrs will be in PH-AZx range (yes, these were previously reserved for KL's A350s).
It was said on the Scramble forum the source for this news was an internal memo to KLM Flight Operations. There are members on that forum who work for KLM, this kind of information in that particular thread has usually been very reliable.

Interesting to see KL will focus on the A321 introduction first, first A320 not earlier than 2027, perhaps they want to wait and see whether Airbus launches an A220-500 before? To replace all 737s KL/HV need not just the 100 firm orders for the neo, but the 60 options as well. So I'm not ruling out the options will only be converted to firm A320neo orders if no A220-500 is on the horizon. AF/KL launch customer for the A220-500 with 120 orders? Who knows :cloudnine:
 
SA280
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Re: Air France/KLM News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Wed Jun 29, 2022 4:13 pm

frigatebird wrote:

Interesting to see KL will focus on the A321 introduction first, first A320 not earlier than 2027, perhaps they want to wait and see whether Airbus launches an A220-500 before? To replace all 737s KL/HV need not just the 100 firm orders for the neo, but the 60 options as well. So I'm not ruling out the options will only be converted to firm A320neo orders if no A220-500 is on the horizon. AF/KL launch customer for the A220-500 with 120 orders? Who knows :cloudnine:


Before thinking about any dreamed aircraft, I see 3 reasons for the A321neo coming first:

1) Uncertainty regarding AMS operations cap in the future. It's better to commit to the larger versions and keep the room open for converting A320s into A321s if noise policies become even more strict.

2) Economics and capacity trade-off. The A321neo really adds something that KLM does not have nowadays, for high density and more leisure routes. On the other hand, replacing a B738 by a A320 neo is basicly the same.

3) Under previous RJ generation, that typically had a much higher seat cost than a 180-seater narrowbody, the room for those NBs certainly was huge. Comparing a A320neo with a E195-E2 nowadays, under the same crew cost, you will see the NEO with around +25% trip cost, just - 5% seat cost (DOC). Considering the E195-E2 operates under KLM Cityhopper cost structure, then I bet this difference becomes almost null. So, in terms of capacity and economics trade-off, it's expected that the A320neo segment becomes more compressed between the E195-E2 and the A321neo. It has its room, but not that big as it would be in the past.
 
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mercure1
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Re: Air France/KLM News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Wed Jun 29, 2022 4:37 pm

Ground staff plan strikes at CDG on 1 July, and MRS from 1-4 July.

https://www.air-journal.fr/2022-06-29-g ... um=twitter
 
Berven1
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Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:38 pm

Re: Air France/KLM News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Wed Jun 29, 2022 5:08 pm

A220-500 for KLM? If so, then all Embraers go away! Then we also look to the distant future, what KLM will also bring in connection with fewer flights due to nitrogen and environmental/noise problems in the Netherlands.

Boeing 777-9X: Possible replacement for Boeing 777-300ERs, but will be available from 2025 due to certification issues. In a KLM 777-9X, approximately 410 passengers can be accommodated in 4 classes, World Business Class, Economy Premium, Economy Comfort and Economy Class. I'm guessing KLM can order 25 Boeing 777-9X.

Airbus A350-1000: good replacement for Boeing 777-200ER, directly available from Airbus. An A350-1000 of KLM could transport up to 360 passengers in 4 classes, divided into World Business Class, Economy Premium, Economy Comfort and Economy Class. In theory, KLM could want up to 15 aircraft in its fleet.

We also closely follow developments around Airbus, which also has to do with the development of Airbus A350NEO, in the distant future. And we certainly follow developments at Boeing.

KLM is also collaborating with Airbus and TU Delft on the development of an environmentally friendly aircraft called V-Flying, a V-shaped aircraft, which is very similar to Blended Wing aircraft. It would provide 20 percent savings on kerosene/SAF compared to today's conventional aircraft. And V Flying could fly 14,000 km and carry 315 passengers in 2 classes. A daring development by students of TU Delft in the Netherlands. It is not yet known when this aircraft will be built and delivered to airlines. But it must be feasible before this device becomes a reality. certainly prior to this, the V Flying device must first be tested for certification from EASA and the FAA from America. The students are currently testing a miniature aircraft that pretends to be a V-Flying and how it takes off, lands and flies exactly. A great challenge for these parties and hoping that it will be a success.
 
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Polot
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Re: Air France/KLM News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Wed Jun 29, 2022 5:17 pm

SA280 wrote:
frigatebird wrote:

Interesting to see KL will focus on the A321 introduction first, first A320 not earlier than 2027, perhaps they want to wait and see whether Airbus launches an A220-500 before? To replace all 737s KL/HV need not just the 100 firm orders for the neo, but the 60 options as well. So I'm not ruling out the options will only be converted to firm A320neo orders if no A220-500 is on the horizon. AF/KL launch customer for the A220-500 with 120 orders? Who knows :cloudnine:


Before thinking about any dreamed aircraft, I see 3 reasons for the A321neo coming first:

1) Uncertainty regarding AMS operations cap in the future. It's better to commit to the larger versions and keep the room open for converting A320s into A321s if noise policies become even more strict.

2) Economics and capacity trade-off. The A321neo really adds something that KLM does not have nowadays, for high density and more leisure routes. On the other hand, replacing a B738 by a A320 neo is basicly the same.

3) Under previous RJ generation, that typically had a much higher seat cost than a 180-seater narrowbody, the room for those NBs certainly was huge. Comparing a A320neo with a E195-E2 nowadays, under the same crew cost, you will see the NEO with around +25% trip cost, just - 5% seat cost (DOC). Considering the E195-E2 operates under KLM Cityhopper cost structure, then I bet this difference becomes almost null. So, in terms of capacity and economics trade-off, it's expected that the A320neo segment becomes more compressed between the E195-E2 and the A321neo. It has its room, but not that big as it would be in the past.

You guys are completely overthinking it. The reason why A321s are coming first are simple and obvious:

KLM has 46 737s. 5 of those are 739s, all but one of which are over 20 years old (the last and newest one is 18). 31 of those 737s are 738s, many of which are less than 10 years old. Including the last 738 delivered. Based on the way they are configured KL’s 738s seat nearly as many total passengers as their 739s. All other 737s are 73Gs being replaced by Embraer E2s.

The A321 is the priority because ultimately KL is in zero pressing need for something the size of the A320/738, and needs larger narrow bodies. It has absolutely nothing to do with holding out hope for a A225 (although I’m sure KL will evaluate it down the line).
 
rjbesikof
Posts: 861
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:21 am

Re: Air France/KLM News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Wed Jun 29, 2022 6:03 pm

Air France is boosting MIA-CDG to 19x weekly effective 11/1/2022.
https://aeroroutes.com/eng/220624-afnw22mia
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