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According to the Air France Instagram fan page, tomorrow at 10.00 F-GUGF an A318 will fly to Cotswold to be dismantled. I guess this is inevitable now that more A220s are arriving.

Blerg wrote:

According to the Air France Instagram fan page, tomorrow at 10.00 F-GUGF an A318 will fly to Cotswold to be dismantled. I guess this is inevitable now that more A220s are arriving.

The 318s have been leaving at a pretty steady rate since the 220s came online. A few went to Louisiana last month for scrapping.

I was lucky enough to get to fly one last summer. Nice flight, nice bird. Paris - Perpignan.

FGITD wrote:

Blerg wrote:

According to the Air France Instagram fan page, tomorrow at 10.00 F-GUGF an A318 will fly to Cotswold to be dismantled. I guess this is inevitable now that more A220s are arriving.

The 318s have been leaving at a pretty steady rate since the 220s came online. A few went to Louisiana last month for scrapping.

Thank you. Do you know how many have left by now and how many are active?

Dutchy wrote:

I was lucky enough to get to fly one last summer. Nice flight, nice bird. Paris - Perpignan.

You were lucky, once AF retires them the only remaining airline to use them in Europe will be Tarom. Actually now that I think of it, I can't recall another airline that still actively uses them.

Blerg wrote:

FGITD wrote:

Blerg wrote:

According to the Air France Instagram fan page, tomorrow at 10.00 F-GUGF an A318 will fly to Cotswold to be dismantled. I guess this is inevitable now that more A220s are arriving.

The 318s have been leaving at a pretty steady rate since the 220s came online. A few went to Louisiana last month for scrapping.

Thank you. Do you know how many have left by now and how many are active?

I can`t really tell you for sure but wiki says 14 left and I know AF will take deliverey of 15 A220´s this year. I guess at the end of the year they are all gone

oldJoe wrote:

Blerg wrote:

FGITD wrote:

The 318s have been leaving at a pretty steady rate since the 220s came online. A few went to Louisiana last month for scrapping.

Thank you. Do you know how many have left by now and how many are active?

I can`t really tell you for sure but wiki says 14 left and I know AF will take deliverey of 15 A220´s this year. I guess at the end of the year they are all gone

Thank you, it's always so sad when a model is being retired.

Now it seems they are sending an A320, F-GKXK to Cotswold to be dismantled. It is scheduled to leave ORY at 13.00 today.

According to their fan page, the A220 will be sent to three more destinations: Copenhagen, Rome and Bologna.

Due ongoing downturn AFKL says it will need additional capital of EUR 1-2bil in 2022 along with another EUR4-6bil longer term.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 022-01-06/

F-GRXC, an A319 is leaving the fleet to be dismantled.
F-HTYM, an A350, has joined the fleet yesterday (07.01.2022)

Interesting that Air France's fleet downsizing includes the A318, A319 and A320.

Blerg wrote:

FGITD wrote:

Blerg wrote:

According to the Air France Instagram fan page, tomorrow at 10.00 F-GUGF an A318 will fly to Cotswold to be dismantled. I guess this is inevitable now that more A220s are arriving.

The 318s have been leaving at a pretty steady rate since the 220s came online. A few went to Louisiana last month for scrapping.

Thank you. Do you know how many have left by now and how many are active?

Airbus A318 retirements

F-GUGA MSN2035 exited 2021-08-29 location EGBP

https://www.flickr.com/photos/117006786@N06/51690599251
https://www.flickr.com/photos/simon-fewkes/51639251331

F-GUGB MSN2059 exited 2021-10-27 location KBYH via BIKF and KDTW

F-GUGD MSN2081 exited 2021-12-11 location KBYH via BIKF and KDTW

F-GUGC MSN2071 exited 2021-12-21 location KBYH via BIKF and KDTW

F-GUGF MSN2109 exited 2022-01-06 location EGBP

https://www.flickr.com/photos/simon-fewkes/51803737463/


Airbus A319 retirements (recent)

F-GPMD MSN618 exited 2020-12-14 location LFBT

https://www.flickr.com/photos/146519169 ... 770931951/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/ragnarok31/50760488307/

F-GRHU MSN1471 exited 2021-03-31 location KMZJ via BIKF and KORD. This one has been re-registered, so may actually have a second career somewhere else.

F-GRHG MSN1036 exited 2021-07-22 location EGDX

https://www.flickr.com/photos/53513929@N08/51375190410/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/53513929@N08/51373424547/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/56152475@N08/51394749917/

Airbus A320 retirements (recent)

F-GKXK MSN2140 exited 2022-01-07 location EGBP


Boeing 777 retirements

F-GSPV LN385 exited 2021-02-11 location LFBT

https://www.flickr.com/photos/8509543@N03/51200259576/

F-GSPS LN370 exited 2021-03-16 location LFBT

https://www.flickr.com/photos/williammu ... 346457169/

F-GSPH LN210 exited 2021-03-29 location KMZJ

F-GSPR LN367 exited 2021-05-17 location LFBT

https://www.flickr.com/photos/143303707 ... 185182613/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/williammu ... 364017755/

Anyone here think that AF will do SLC-CDG? KLM does it and CDG is on a 339 this summer.

SLCaviation wrote:

Anyone here think that AF will do SLC-CDG? KLM does it and CDG is on a 339 this summer.

This is already covered by DL.

ANA787 wrote:

SLCaviation wrote:

Anyone here think that AF will do SLC-CDG? KLM does it and CDG is on a 339 this summer.

This is already covered by DL.

So is SEA, MSP, and DTW yet they get AF. We expect AF as soon as 2023

Which is more likely,
1) KLM adding AMS-DEN
2) AF making CDG-DEN daily

SLCaviation wrote:

ANA787 wrote:

SLCaviation wrote:

Anyone here think that AF will do SLC-CDG? KLM does it and CDG is on a 339 this summer.

This is already covered by DL.

So is SEA, MSP, and DTW yet they get AF. We expect AF as soon as 2023

Could it be that those have a larger O&D demand than SLC? I think SLC in general (for AF-KL) is about transfers onto DL's network. AF isn't doing that well in terms of finances so I don't know if they would be rushing after this supposedly lower yielding market.

zkojq wrote:

Blerg wrote:

FGITD wrote:

The 318s have been leaving at a pretty steady rate since the 220s came online. A few went to Louisiana last month for scrapping.

Thank you. Do you know how many have left by now and how many are active?

Airbus A318 retirements

F-GUGA MSN2035 exited 2021-08-29 location EGBP

https://www.flickr.com/photos/117006786@N06/51690599251
https://www.flickr.com/photos/simon-fewkes/51639251331

F-GUGB MSN2059 exited 2021-10-27 location KBYH via BIKF and KDTW

F-GUGD MSN2081 exited 2021-12-11 location KBYH via BIKF and KDTW

F-GUGC MSN2071 exited 2021-12-21 location KBYH via BIKF and KDTW

F-GUGF MSN2109 exited 2022-01-06 location EGBP

https://www.flickr.com/photos/simon-fewkes/51803737463/


Airbus A319 retirements (recent)

F-GPMD MSN618 exited 2020-12-14 location LFBT

https://www.flickr.com/photos/146519169 ... 770931951/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/ragnarok31/50760488307/

F-GRHU MSN1471 exited 2021-03-31 location KMZJ via BIKF and KORD. This one has been re-registered, so may actually have a second career somewhere else.

F-GRHG MSN1036 exited 2021-07-22 location EGDX

https://www.flickr.com/photos/53513929@N08/51375190410/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/53513929@N08/51373424547/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/56152475@N08/51394749917/

Airbus A320 retirements (recent)

F-GKXK MSN2140 exited 2022-01-07 location EGBP


Boeing 777 retirements

F-GSPV LN385 exited 2021-02-11 location LFBT

https://www.flickr.com/photos/8509543@N03/51200259576/

F-GSPS LN370 exited 2021-03-16 location LFBT

https://www.flickr.com/photos/williammu ... 346457169/

F-GSPH LN210 exited 2021-03-29 location KMZJ

F-GSPR LN367 exited 2021-05-17 location LFBT

https://www.flickr.com/photos/143303707 ... 185182613/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/williammu ... 364017755/

Thank you. So what's their plan for the A319s? Are they also on the way out? I mean the A220 is about the same size and I am sure their economics are much better.

Blerg wrote:

SLCaviation wrote:

ANA787 wrote:

This is already covered by DL.

So is SEA, MSP, and DTW yet they get AF. We expect AF as soon as 2023

Could it be that those have a larger O&D demand than SLC? I think SLC in general (for AF-KL) is about transfers onto DL's network. AF isn't doing that well in terms of finances so I don't know if they would be rushing after this supposedly lower yielding market.

Not necessarily. SLC saw 125,600 people flying to CDG in 2019. Not that much but still a lot. They could do a similar thing to what kl does. a 3x weekly seasonal.

SLCaviation wrote:

Blerg wrote:

SLCaviation wrote:

So is SEA, MSP, and DTW yet they get AF. We expect AF as soon as 2023

Could it be that those have a larger O&D demand than SLC? I think SLC in general (for AF-KL) is about transfers onto DL's network. AF isn't doing that well in terms of finances so I don't know if they would be rushing after this supposedly lower yielding market.

Not necessarily. SLC saw 125,600 people flying to CDG in 2019. Not that much but still a lot. They could do a similar thing to what kl does. a 3x weekly seasonal.

Those 125.600, were they purely local traffic or did they connect in SLC on their way to Paris? Or the other way, how many of them actually connected in Paris onto the AF network. I think AF will chase market with greater O&D demand as those tend to be higher yielding (in theory).

Blerg wrote:

Thank you. So what's their plan for the A319s? Are they also on the way out? I mean the A220 is about the same size and I am sure their economics are much better.

The A220s is replacing both the A318 and A319s

Someone83 wrote:

Blerg wrote:

Thank you. So what's their plan for the A319s? Are they also on the way out? I mean the A220 is about the same size and I am sure their economics are much better.

The A220s is replacing both the A318 and A319s

As expected, thank you.

Fleet Movement January 13, 2022:
Out:
1. Airbus A318 -111 MSN 2100 F-GUGE Air France ferried 10-11 January 2022 CDG-KEF-YYR-DTW-BYH, for part-out & scrap ex D-AUAI
2. Airbus A318 -111 MSN 2109 F-GUGF Air France ferried 06 January 2022 ORY-EGBP for part-out & scrap ex D-AUAJ
3. Airbus A320 -214 MSN 2140 F-GKXK Air France ferried 07 January 2022 ORY-EGBP for part-out & scrap ex F-WWBR

A318 current fleet stands at 12
A319 current fleet stands at 30

In:
Airbus A350 -941 MSN 520 F-HTYM Air France delivery 07 January 2022 TLS-CDG ex F-WZGS

Air France Airbus A350-900 cn 520 F-WZGS // F-HTYM by Clément Alloing, on Flickr

A350 current fleet stands at 13

Data Source: Skyliner-aviation.de, airfleets.net

Source: https://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/ ... an-van-klm (in Dutch)

At May 1st 2023 Pieter Elbers will quit his job as CEO of KLM, he has been at the head of KLM for over 8 years and says it's time for a change. It's unknown who will replace him.

Very smart to step down now. Rough roads are ahead for KLM with all the debts and governmental interferences both in Holland and France.
He’ll get a nice new job somewhere!

Probably a shock to many KLM-staffers as he stood up for his people more than once and he was well liked among them. I'm curious who will be his successor and what that will do with the relationship between KLM and "Paris".

Hopefully, the group appoints a CEO at KLM that can champion further synergies within the group which Ben Smith has been pushing, and avoid company to company divisiveness.

Ellbers was the right CEO for KLM and he did very well for the airline. In 2019, when he was up. for a second term, he was almost replaced by Paris, then the staff intervened and he got his second term. Back then, it was quite clear that that would be his last and there it is.

Will be a bumpy road ahead for KLM, the 'fight' with Air France isn't over and the next CEO might be more Paris 'minded'.

PANAMsterdam wrote:

Probably a shock to many KLM-staffers as he stood up for his people more than once and he was well liked among them. I'm curious who will be his successor and what that will do with the relationship between KLM and "Paris".

The name of Pieter Bootsma is being rumored, no guarantees of course but I think it would be good for the stability of KLM. He knows the company and of course as a Dutchman he can stand up against too much French influence. That seems to be the major concern among KLM staff, they don't want to be governed by Air France. KLM is and should remain a Dutch company.

4 years ago Air France-KLM initially didn't want to prolong Elbers as CEO of KLM, they wanted someone who was more Paris minded. However the KLM staff massively stood up for Elbers, they wanted him and nobody else. And thus his contract was prolonged. Now Elbers himself chooses not to go for another term at KLM. But Bootsma shares his vision, I'm sure if the KLM staff would have it their way they'd appoint Bootsma to replace Elbers. But it remains to be seen what the Air France-KLM will do, what their proposal will be.

PatrickZ80 wrote:

PANAMsterdam wrote:

ProbablyNow Elbers himself chooses not to go for another term at KLM.

Are you sure it is his choice? Or.not at least influenced?

As someone that has business relations with AFKL, I have long espoused the idea they need to integrate closer, stop duplication, and function more as joint airlines in the group.

Its truly amazing, nearly 20 years after their "merger" there is very little to show for it synergy-wise, as there is so much overlap and waste created when a smaller partner like KLM for instance does not avail itself to broader capabilities that the group has.

Look to LH Group, where much of the back office, support functions, and decision-making is centralized across airlines at great savings and avoids each partner having to carry the burden on their own. KLM can fly the Dutch flag on the brand, but internally it should really function more on the joint group level imo.

LAXintl wrote:

As someone that has business relations with AFKL, I have long espoused the idea they need to integrate closer, stop duplication, and function more as joint airlines in the group.

This is the truth. In my airline career I’ve worked in close proximity to many airlines and known how they work together within a group. AF KL are definitely extremely generous in the “let KLM be Dutch!” aspect. There’s absolutely no reason to have 2 different systems for almost everything. Usually there’d be a fairly modern, well supported program used by AF. Then there’d be a legacy system that hasn’t been updated since 1999 used by KL, but every attempt to get rid of it and integrate would be met with over the top resistance from long time KL employees.

It does swing both ways however. Sometimes AF would have procedures that were time consuming and questionably useful. KL on the other hand would have long since eliminated that procedure to streamline things.

I’m all for KLM and AF representing the Dutch and French, but it’s time to make it one ship.

As an amateur enthusiast who has probably flown KLM over 25 times, my biggest concern is what possible further integration may mean for KL. I personally know of several Europeans expatriates who are devote KL customers. Their staff are amazing, AMS is a great hub to connect through and their soft product is far beyond the US 3, BA, LH, AC, SX and AF in Y, IMO. I’ve had horrible experiences with AF but nothing but good experiences with KL. If that changes, and the staff become disgruntled and service suffers, KL will loose a lot of frequent flyers.

I have absolutely no proof just a gut feeling, but I wonder if Ben Smith, the pandemic and the recent Airbus A32X order had a role to play in his departure. Elbers clearly and repeatedly said that KL’s long term plan is to be all Boeing, there were credible reports in the fall that Boeing got the NB deals. I have to wonder if AF and Smith overwrote KLs fleet strategy and thereby upset their CEO. I’m not claiming the A32X won’t do very well at KL, it’s an impressive aircraft.

KrisYYZ

Hopefully Transavia NL and Transavia FR will finally merge.

Last summer I flew from Paris to Amsterdam on an AF flight in the evening. Paris was a stopover on my way home from Dubai. We were already above Amsterdam when there was a technical issue. The aircraft flew back to have it fixed in Paris. Obviously this is because it was a A320 where KLM has B737, or maybe the crew didn't want to get stranded in Amsterdam, but the idea that an AF-KLM aircraft flying into one the main AF-KLM hubs can't be repaired there is really crazy.

FGITD wrote:

I’m all for KLM and AF representing the Dutch and French, but it’s time to make it one ship.

As long as that one ship is under Dutch management I'm all for that, however I'm afraid the French won't accept that. And the Dutch on their turn won't accept it to be under French management.

Instead of making it one ship, maybe it's time for a divorce. At the time Air France was the best option for KLM, but that doesn't have to mean that's still the case. They never got along very well and even after all these years there are still calls for KLM to become independent again. There's nothing wrong in cooperation with other airlines, they can both remain SkyTeam members and they can even be in a joint venture. However merger is a bridge too far, the time to make it one ship hasn't come yet. In fact I think that time will never come.

MrBren wrote:

Hopefully Transavia NL and Transavia FR will finally merge.

Aren't they basically the same apart from their AOCs?

LAXintl wrote:

Look to LH Group, where much of the back office, support functions, and decision-making is centralized across airlines at great savings and avoids each partner having to carry the burden on their own. KLM can fly the Dutch flag on the brand, but internally it should really function more on the joint group level imo.

The Lufthansa scenario is exactly the nightmare scenario KLM employees, Dutch government and people have. Just like LH decides everything for SN Brussels, Austrian and Swiss but will make sure all the lucrative destinations, newest efficient aircraft and profitable business are kept for Germany and Lufthansa, people in The Netherlands think that same thing will happen if France gets too much influence in KLM. Whether these people are right or wrong I can't tell, but a lot of emotion is involved. Fear that more integration will result a shift of profitable business and employment going from AMS to CDG for example, and the latest Airbus order doesn't exactly help removing these fears: will AMS/KLM keep a maintenance base or will everything go to CDG, where AF already has the AF Airbus maintenance.

As said, whether these sentiments are correct or not I don't know, but many people including in the Dutch government believe AF really wants to use KLM's profits to cover for the inefficiencies of AF. Therefore every attempt for further integration is blocked.

MrBren wrote:

Hopefully Transavia NL and Transavia FR will finally merge.

It could well be that Transavia will once again become one large low-cost airline that will soon fly with Airbuses. In itself it is conceivable that new large Transavia can compete better with Wizzair, Ryanair, Easyjet, Veuling and other smaller low-cost airlines. At some point, I think that this step will also allow us to gain a large market share from smaller companies. It is not wrong that it could happen that it can also strengthen the position of AirFrance-KLM by having one large low-cost airline instead of 2 smaller airlines

PvdE wrote:

Last summer I flew from Paris to Amsterdam on an AF flight in the evening. Paris was a stopover on my way home from Dubai. We were already above Amsterdam when there was a technical issue. The aircraft flew back to have it fixed in Paris. Obviously this is because it was a A320 where KLM has B737, or maybe the crew didn't want to get stranded in Amsterdam, but the idea that an AF-KLM aircraft flying into one the main AF-KLM hubs can't be repaired there is really crazy.

Well that problem won´t exist for any longer since the group decided on one main NB type.

The blue army had sprung into action with a petition to keep Elbers. The overwhelming reactions are disbelief that he's leaving. Personally I think it's as shame he's going and feel that BS had a hand in this, like I said my personal feeling.

frigatebird wrote:

LAXintl wrote:

As said, whether these sentiments are correct or not I don't know, but many people including in the Dutch government believe AF really wants to use KLM's profits to cover for the inefficiencies of AF. Therefore every attempt for further integration is blocked.

Let's remember that the merger happened in the first place because KLM had strong difficulties and needed to avoid bankrupcy. Later on, when Air France started having its own difficulties the Dutch government made it clear they refused KLM to be used for help in increasing their shares in the group, a decision which has shocked the French side, which retaliated if I remember correctly.

From a pure business point of view, the group should have further integrated already, what's preventing it to happen are more geopolitical and attractiveness reasons. Both flag carriers are more than only private companies for the Netherlands and France. They drive the growth of AMS and CDG which are the main gates for business in the Netherlands and Paris. Both airports are also in competition as being 2 of the 4 major hubs in Western Europe together with LHR and FRA.

I think this explains why distrust is so strong between both sides, and particularly why the Dutch side considers essential for KLM not to downgrade as an AF subsidiary. But yes, clearly the consequence is that both entities within the group are more competitors than real partners.

RalXWB wrote:

PvdE wrote:

Last summer I flew from Paris to Amsterdam on an AF flight in the evening. Paris was a stopover on my way home from Dubai. We were already above Amsterdam when there was a technical issue. The aircraft flew back to have it fixed in Paris. Obviously this is because it was a A320 where KLM has B737, or maybe the crew didn't want to get stranded in Amsterdam, but the idea that an AF-KLM aircraft flying into one the main AF-KLM hubs can't be repaired there is really crazy.

Well that problem won´t exist for any longer since the group decided on one main NB type.

That doesn't guarantee there will be a maintenance base for the A32x in AMS.

PatrickZ80 wrote:

FGITD wrote:

I’m all for KLM and AF representing the Dutch and French, but it’s time to make it one ship.

As long as that one ship is under Dutch management I'm all for that, however I'm afraid the French won't accept that. And the Dutch on their turn won't accept it to be under French management.

Instead of making it one ship, maybe it's time for a divorce. At the time Air France was the best option for KLM, but that doesn't have to mean that's still the case. They never got along very well and even after all these years there are still calls for KLM to become independent again. There's nothing wrong in cooperation with other airlines, they can both remain SkyTeam members and they can even be in a joint venture. However merger is a bridge too far, the time to make it one ship hasn't come yet. In fact I think that time will never come.

IMHO you are just looking too much though chauvinistic orange glasses. We Dutch think we are bigger/more important than we really are. More integration can be possible without “destroying” the identity of KLM. KLM is wat less Dutch than the Dutch want to believe…..

Rather than internal wranglings, AFKL might be better worrying about their relative position / value against the competition.

Mkt caps of the main European airline groups (all in USD):

Ryanair = $26.5Bn
IAG (BA/IB/EI/VY etc.) = $11Bn
LH (+ OS/SN/LX etc.) = $9.9Bn
WIZZ = $7.9Bn
EZY = $6.5Bn
AFKL = $3Bn

Basically, if AF & KL split, each would be worth about the same as Norwegian, AZUL or Finnair (i.e. minor players).
To put AFKL's market cap in wider context, DL and WN are both worth about 10 X AFKL.

Yesterday on a French business radio they said he was basically fired because he clashed too much with Ben Smith... I'm surprised to learn that means staying a year and a half before going.

To some commenters here, last time I checked Ben Smith isn't French, he doesn't even speak French (for a Canadian). Well he speaks some French now.

GCT64 wrote:

Rather than internal wranglings, AFKL might be better worrying about their relative position / value against the competition.

Mkt caps of the main European airline groups (all in USD):

Ryanair = $26.5Bn
IAG (BA/IB/EI/VY etc.) = $11Bn
LH (+ OS/SN/LX etc.) = $9.9Bn
WIZZ = $7.9Bn
EZY = $6.5Bn
AFKL = $3Bn

Basically, if AF & KL split, each would be worth about the same as Norwegian, AZUL or Finnair (i.e. minor players).
To put AFKL's market cap in wider context, DL and WN are both worth about 10 X AFKL.

What do you think drives market cap? It's expectation of earnings. AFKL needs to get on with the rationalization of duplication so it can start making more money. We don't see AA operating America West, USAirways, and Reno Air as separate subsidies. KLM shareholders accepted the deal. It's way past time to get on with it.

MIflyer12 wrote:

GCT64 wrote:

Rather than internal wranglings, AFKL might be better worrying about their relative position / value against the competition.

Mkt caps of the main European airline groups (all in USD):

Ryanair = $26.5Bn
IAG (BA/IB/EI/VY etc.) = $11Bn
LH (+ OS/SN/LX etc.) = $9.9Bn
WIZZ = $7.9Bn
EZY = $6.5Bn
AFKL = $3Bn

Basically, if AF & KL split, each would be worth about the same as Norwegian, AZUL or Finnair (i.e. minor players).
To put AFKL's market cap in wider context, DL and WN are both worth about 10 X AFKL.

What do you think drives market cap? It's expectation of earnings. AFKL needs to get on with the rationalization of duplication so it can start making more money. We don't see AA operating America West, USAirways, and Reno Air as separate subsidies. KLM shareholders accepted the deal. It's way past time to get on with it.

I'm not even sure AFKL has got a culture of focusing on making money (let alone actually achieving it!!) - we all know that Ryanair, Wizz and Easyjet do and do. The whole talk of "maintaining the Dutch independence from Paris, keeping a CEO who focuses on not getting integrated etc." doesn't suggest there is a laser focus on the business' performance.

Aesma wrote:

Yesterday on a French business radio they said he was basically fired because he clashed too much with Ben Smith... I'm surprised to learn that means staying a year and a half before going.

These kind of triumphant comments from France will only result in more oil on the fire for the anti France sentiments in The Netherlands and particularly within KLM - Elbers still is hugely popular with the KL employees at all levels.

Just out of curiosity.
Does anyone know how much does someone in such position earns?