A few updates from what I am hearing out of MCO (nothing solid or official):

*WN is aiming to go to over 200 flights a day (no idea what they are at now). They are ramping up hiring and will be expanding their checkin area (area Emirates and Aer Lingus used).
*AS looks to be moving to Airside 3 with AA.
*AS, AA, and UA are looking to add flights once Spirit vacates.
*Virgin and LATAM will move to Terminal B with Delta (Westjet is already there and Aeromexico just moved). All Delta Partners to be in Terminal B and operate out of Airside 4.
*All Frontier and Spirit International to Airside 4 (already happening with closure of Airside 1 FIS).
*All Spirit Domestic to Airside 1.
*Avelo to area of Terminal A JetBlue was in and relocate to Airside 1.
*Sun Country to move to Airside 3.
*Viva and Volaris to move too Terminal A.
*Any new carrier that starts MCO will automatically go to Terminal C (I think this is already known or at least understood).

dabpit wrote:

A few updates from what I am hearing out of MCO (nothing solid or official):

*WN is aiming to go to over 200 flights a day (no idea what they are at now). They are ramping up hiring and will be expanding their checkin area (area Emirates and Aer Lingus used).
*AS looks to be moving to Airside 3 with AA.
*AS, AA, and UA are looking to add flights once Spirit vacates.
*Virgin and LATAM will move to Terminal B with Delta (Westjet is already there and Aeromexico just moved). All Delta Partners to be in Terminal B and operate out of Airside 4.
*All Frontier and Spirit International to Airside 4 (already happening with closure of Airside 1 FIS).
*All Spirit Domestic to Airside 1.
*Avelo to area of Terminal A JetBlue was in and relocate to Airside 1.
*Sun Country to move to Airside 3.
*Viva and Volaris to move too Terminal A.
*Any new carrier that starts MCO will automatically go to Terminal C (I think this is already known or at least understood).

And to add to this. All JetBlue flights will be using Terminal C starting OCT. 25th, currently only international arrivals use terminal C as of OCT. 11th.

dabpit wrote:

A few updates from what I am hearing out of MCO (nothing solid or official):

*WN is aiming to go to over 200 flights a day (no idea what they are at now). They are ramping up hiring and will be expanding their checkin area (area Emirates and Aer Lingus used).
*AS looks to be moving to Airside 3 with AA.
*AS, AA, and UA are looking to add flights once Spirit vacates.
*Virgin and LATAM will move to Terminal B with Delta (Westjet is already there and Aeromexico just moved). All Delta Partners to be in Terminal B and operate out of Airside 4.
*All Frontier and Spirit International to Airside 4 (already happening with closure of Airside 1 FIS).
*All Spirit Domestic to Airside 1.
*Avelo to area of Terminal A JetBlue was in and relocate to Airside 1.
*Sun Country to move to Airside 3.
*Viva and Volaris to move too Terminal A.
*Any new carrier that starts MCO will automatically go to Terminal C (I think this is already known or at least understood).

They should move AC back to Airside 1 (which is where they were 5-6 years ago). No need for them to waste CBP gate space in Airside 4 since all their flight are pre-cleared. Seems the 20s gates have had space open up with all the INTL airlines moving out.

dabpit wrote:

A few updates from what I am hearing out of MCO (nothing solid or official):

*WN is aiming to go to over 200 flights a day (no idea what they are at now). They are ramping up hiring and will be expanding their checkin area (area Emirates and Aer Lingus used).
*AS looks to be moving to Airside 3 with AA.
*AS, AA, and UA are looking to add flights once Spirit vacates.
*Virgin and LATAM will move to Terminal B with Delta (Westjet is already there and Aeromexico just moved). All Delta Partners to be in Terminal B and operate out of Airside 4.
*All Frontier and Spirit International to Airside 4 (already happening with closure of Airside 1 FIS).
*All Spirit Domestic to Airside 1.
*Avelo to area of Terminal A JetBlue was in and relocate to Airside 1.
*Sun Country to move to Airside 3.
*Viva and Volaris to move too Terminal A.
*Any new carrier that starts MCO will automatically go to Terminal C (I think this is already known or at least understood).

What AS destinations are being talked about?

I could see LAX returning and maybe a seasonal route to BOI or Spokane

KMCOFlyer wrote:

dabpit wrote:

A few updates from what I am hearing out of MCO (nothing solid or official):

*WN is aiming to go to over 200 flights a day (no idea what they are at now). They are ramping up hiring and will be expanding their checkin area (area Emirates and Aer Lingus used).
*AS looks to be moving to Airside 3 with AA.
*AS, AA, and UA are looking to add flights once Spirit vacates.
*Virgin and LATAM will move to Terminal B with Delta (Westjet is already there and Aeromexico just moved). All Delta Partners to be in Terminal B and operate out of Airside 4.
*All Frontier and Spirit International to Airside 4 (already happening with closure of Airside 1 FIS).
*All Spirit Domestic to Airside 1.
*Avelo to area of Terminal A JetBlue was in and relocate to Airside 1.
*Sun Country to move to Airside 3.
*Viva and Volaris to move too Terminal A.
*Any new carrier that starts MCO will automatically go to Terminal C (I think this is already known or at least understood).

They should move AC back to Airside 1 (which is where they were 5-6 years ago). No need for them to waste CBP gate space in Airside 4 since all their flight are pre-cleared. Seems the 20s gates have had space open up with all the INTL airlines moving out.

91-97 are non FIS gates, the Canadian carriers and Bahamasair uses them since they’re all precleared. However, I assume this will change with WS since they plant to resume a lot of secondary Canadian markets which are not covered under pre clearance. Both NAS and FPO are pre clearance approved.

flymco753 wrote:

91-97 are non FIS gates

I thought 90, 92, 94, and 96 got converted to FIS accessible around 2018? Gate 90 became A380 accessible with 92 & (and 94?) blocked.

phatfarmlines wrote:

flymco753 wrote:

91-97 are non FIS gates

I thought 90, 92, 94, and 96 got converted to FIS accessible around 2018? Gate 90 became A380 accessible with 92 & (and 94?) blocked.

The even gates got converted but the odd ones stayed in their original configuration.

Breeze is starting flights to HSV, XNA, TUL, and CAK in March.

For the first time since I’ve been tracking RITA/BTS/Transtats, Detroit has fallen off our top 10 busiest routes list. Detroit remains one of the busiest markets PDEW wise, but DTW lost several midwestern connection points which contributed to its losses.

Boston has taken over it’s spot.

flymco753 wrote:

For the first time since I’ve been tracking RITA/BTS/Transtats, Detroit has fallen off our top 10 busiest routes list. Detroit remains one of the busiest markets PDEW wise, but DTW lost several midwestern connection points which contributed to its losses.

Boston has taken over it’s spot.

Is there a list provided that shows traffic stats to all of MCO's destinations outside of the top 10?

flymco753 wrote:

Breeze is starting flights to HSV, XNA, TUL, and CAK in March.

I can see Breeze establishing a focus city at MCO if it hasn't been announced yet.

Scraig08 wrote:

flymco753 wrote:

For the first time since I’ve been tracking RITA/BTS/Transtats, Detroit has fallen off our top 10 busiest routes list. Detroit remains one of the busiest markets PDEW wise, but DTW lost several midwestern connection points which contributed to its losses.

Boston has taken over it’s spot.

Is there a list provided that shows traffic stats to all of MCO's destinations outside of the top 10?

We can certainly go beyond that. If you’re good at excel you can use T100 data and it takes a lot of time.

MCO closing tomorrow for the hurricane https://twitter.com/OrlandoInformer/sta ... gePNAuRHUw

PITFlyer330 wrote:

MCO closing tomorrow for the hurricane https://twitter.com/OrlandoInformer/sta ... gePNAuRHUw

You mean Tropical storm.....

jomur wrote:

PITFlyer330 wrote:

MCO closing tomorrow for the hurricane https://twitter.com/OrlandoInformer/sta ... gePNAuRHUw

You mean Tropical storm.....

Does it matter that much? Tropical storm now, yes, but still projecting to reach hurricane status. Regardless what you feel it should be called, as of now (TS) it still meets the requirements for closing towers.

Breeze Airways starting nonstop service to SNA in February

Has anyone tried the new terminal yet? I work out of it and want to see what other people think about it. Personally while the terminal is very nice, bright and spacious. I think it was poorly laid out/design, seems to be lots of wasted space, and does not flow well.

And insane amount of waking from TSA to the gates especially the furthest one for me. I clocked it at a 7min walk and I walk at a very brisk pace. No moving walk-ways, the train to terminals A/B is also a very far walk. And customs arrivals have to walk up hill on carpet.

I personally don’t mind the walking however there’s lots of elder customers that can’t walk far distances and if you add in customers now they have to walk up a incline the whole way on carpet pulling luggage.

I'm intrigued in seeing what potential 2023 service MCO will be receiving. I'd expect to see Norse to LGW and hopefully a seasonal service to CDG on DAL as well as year round service on Lufthansa to MUC. Unlikely but Iberia to MAD and/or TAP Air Portugal to LIS could also be in sights at some point

I'm surprised this thread does not have a few pages of complaints about the new C terminal in it yet. Airport authorities tried to be cute and put arrivals on the top floor, but its just a disaster. I wonder how many wheelchair pushers have already quit after a day of pushing large customers up four floors worth of carpeted ramps for international arrivals?

UA opening a crew base in MCO come 2023. What does that mean for UA operations here at MCO?

New routes, destinations, establishing a bit of a focus city potentially, etc.

Scraig08 wrote:

UA opening a crew base in MCO come 2023. What does that mean for UA operations here at MCO?

New routes, destinations, establishing a bit of a focus city potentially, etc.

The main reason for the B737 crew base at MCO is that a large number of the B737 drivers live in Central Florida due to the area's (slightly) lower cost of living compared to other AA bases like PHL, DFW & ORD. This will help taper down the amount of commuting required for B737 pilots. It will eliminate most lodging & per diem costs required for the large number of B737 RON's (remain over night) that UA has at MCO. UA has also has a B737-centric maintenance base at MCO, which will make it easier to call up pilots to fly empty-leg, post-maintenance flights to return B737s back to service at other bases.

CobaltScar wrote:

I'm surprised this thread does not have a few pages of complaints about the new C terminal in it yet. Airport authorities tried to be cute and put arrivals on the top floor, but its just a disaster. I wonder how many wheelchair pushers have already quit after a day of pushing large customers up four floors worth of carpeted ramps for international arrivals?

It truly is awful and poorly thought out I think. The arrivals on the top floor doesn’t bug me for domestic or even international arrivals. But just having to see wheelchair pushers push customers up a incline on carpet for to get to customs is poor planning. And to also not have any people movers for the domestic gates isn’t great either. From gate 230 for me it’s a good 8-10min walk till I get curb side and I walk far faster then the normal person.

CobaltScar wrote:

I'm surprised this thread does not have a few pages of complaints about the new C terminal in it yet. Airport authorities tried to be cute and put arrivals on the top floor, but its just a disaster. I wonder how many wheelchair pushers have already quit after a day of pushing large customers up four floors worth of carpeted ramps for international arrivals?

I had the unfortunate experience of transiting twice through the new terminal C at MCO and it was totally underwhelming. I wrote to the Greater Orlando Aviation Authority to express my displeasure and all I got back in return was a scripted form email thanking me for my input.
On departure, the food selection while waiting for an International departure on Emirates was beyond dismal. The only seating area was scattered tables and hard chairs strewn about in an open atrium. I understand that airport concession food is more expensive, but 2 cold chicken wraps and 2 bottled waters for $40 is nuts. Long lines too at what few food vendors that were offered. The line to pay was at least 20 people long while the adjoining resteraunt had no one. I asked if I could pay at the empty cashier and they said yes. How come no one offered to let everyone else know who was waiting in that long line!

On arrival a very very long walk to immigration. The bathroom was designed to accomodate just a handful of users unlike most international arrival bathrooms, and no personal private stalls like most intl airports.. My arrival time was 10:30 am the only flight and the baggage took over 1 hour to retrieve. NO SITTING AREA to wait, and the only small sitting bench was occupied by airport skycaps sitting waiting for potential customers. All floor to ceiling walls bare white making it a dull bland experience. Compare that to immigration in Dubai and it was a joke. Not one luggage cart for free or for hire to help with the bags either. 2 thumbs down...

Does anyone know why so many charter flights to Orlando from Stanstead lately?

After flying through Terminal C today I am very unimpressed. They basically built a glamorous terminal but forgot the details that people actually notice and care about.

The bathrooms are atrocious. The stalls are tiny, and have no space for bags like most new major international airports have. The walk down to gate 230 was fine for me, but I can see how many people would struggle with this. There is plenty of space for moving walkways and this should have been considered.

I am in agreement with the others in this forum who have voiced the same concerns.

International wish-list for 2023:

Norse to LGW (not if but when), a seasonal DAL to CDG, and a bit ambitious but Turkish Airlines to IST announced for 2024

I think you hit the nail right on the head. In terms of priorities, the wish list is short. Norse to LGW is a given.

I agree I'd like to see DL to CDG internationally but a LAS evening departure and red eye inbound would be nice, perhaps this can be a 737-800 and rotate with CVG. If they're looking to throw more seats on a route maybe rotate it between MIA and RDU (a bump from the current A319). Maybe route the plane MCO-RDU-MCO-MIA-MCO-LAS-MCO.

I'm going to bet we will continue to see TUL, XNA, and SWF type adds from Breeze and more LAN, AZO, and BGM type adds by Avelo. Too hard to pinpoint where exactly they will expand.

Otherwise, I don't suspect a super active 2023 as airlines start to shift their focus on rebuilding their network and adding from core hubs/core focus cities.

flymco753 wrote:

I think you hit the nail right on the head. In terms of priorities, the wish list is short. Norse to LGW is a given.

I agree I'd like to see DL to CDG internationally but a LAS evening departure and red eye inbound would be nice, perhaps this can be a 737-800 and rotate with CVG. If they're looking to throw more seats on a route maybe rotate it between MIA and RDU (a bump from the current A319). Maybe route the plane MCO-RDU-MCO-MIA-MCO-LAS-MCO.

I'm going to bet we will continue to see TUL, XNA, and SWF type adds from Breeze and more LAN, AZO, and BGM type adds by Avelo. Too hard to pinpoint where exactly they will expand.

Otherwise, I don't suspect a super active 2023 as airlines start to shift their focus on rebuilding their network and adding from core hubs/core focus cities.

I expect a further Breeze and Avelo expansion. My hopes is that we also get more service to the Bay Area. Maybe a DAL to SFO or Southwest returns to SJC and/or OAK. But yes I agree that 2023 will be relatively quiet with no real exciting new air service announcements.

Scraig08 wrote:

UA opening a crew base in MCO come 2023. What does that mean for UA operations here at MCO?

New routes, destinations, establishing a bit of a focus city potentially, etc.

It might be an opportunity for some point-to-point routes, but I think the biggest difference is United is going to overnight a ton of aircraft at MCO (and TPA). Both to get some maintenance completed, United has maintenance facilities at both MCO and TPA, as well as clearing up some space at hubs (especially EWR). United is flying EWR-MCO 12x daily, that might increase.

Anyone noticed that JSX quietly added MCO to their route network? DAL/HPN flights.... I do not know the frequency, but I saw on FR24 a JSX aircraft come in from DAL today and on the airports wiki, JSX is listed as an airline that flies in. No announcement I have seen from MCO either.

aviationMCO8 wrote:

Anyone noticed that JSX quietly added MCO to their route network? DAL/HPN flights.... I do not know the frequency, but I saw on FR24 a JSX aircraft come in from DAL today and on the airports wiki, JSX is listed as an airline that flies in. No announcement I have seen from MCO either.

I recall seeing an announcement in the past for this because i looked at the pricing for them rather recently as i always wanted to fly them. If i recall correctly, i think it got overshadowed by a Breeze or Avelo announcement.

DL starting service to DCA in October. Could see more P2P routes out of MCO. Some that come to mind are BNA, LAS, BDL, AUS (50/50), and SFO to compete against UA and AS

Scraig08 wrote:

DL starting service to DCA in October. Could see more P2P routes out of MCO. Some that come to mind are BNA, LAS, BDL, AUS (50/50), and SFO to compete against UA and AS

DCA wasn’t totally left field, I would certainly have thought LAS would come first. MIA will gain a 3rd flight during this time as well.

I have a difficult time seeing DL make the attempt for SFO, UA has a tight grip on that market when it comes to a legacy product. I hope to see LAS, AUS, and MSY join DCA. LAS would make a good 738 rotation with CVG, AUS and MSY could probably work on a 319.

Scraig08 wrote:

DL starting service to DCA in October. Could see more P2P routes out of MCO. Some that come to mind are BNA, LAS, BDL, AUS (50/50), and SFO to compete against UA and AS

This isn’t related to MCO growth. Delta is also adding DCA to MIA and BNA, I wouldn’t read too much into this at all.

krod031 wrote:

aviationMCO8 wrote:

Anyone noticed that JSX quietly added MCO to their route network? DAL/HPN flights.... I do not know the frequency, but I saw on FR24 a JSX aircraft come in from DAL today and on the airports wiki, JSX is listed as an airline that flies in. No announcement I have seen from MCO either.

I recall seeing an announcement in the past for this because i looked at the pricing for them rather recently as i always wanted to fly them. If i recall correctly, i think it got overshadowed by a Breeze or Avelo announcement.

I regularly fly Dallas-MCO and only stumbled upon the new JSX service because I was on their website for other reasons. Typing this currently via Starlink Wi-Fi on my MCO-DAL return flight. The flight was half empty as of yesterday but this morning was mostly booked. Not sure where they are advertising, if at all, as I haven’t seen it.

Does anyone know where the JSX flights depart from at MCO? Is it from the Westside general aviation side? Also, I believe it was mentioned earlier, but United will be offerering a few nonstop extra session flights direct from MCO to LAS for the CES convention. Sure would be nice if those become annual.

crownvic wrote:

Does anyone know where the JSX flights depart from at MCO? Is it from the Westside general aviation side? Also, I believe it was mentioned earlier, but United will be offerering a few nonstop extra session flights direct from MCO to LAS for the CES convention. Sure would be nice if those become annual.

DL is offering LAS for CES as well.

I posted it above but I am really interest in seeing what DL can do moving forward. The infrastructure is there for them to completely occupy 70s and 80s. This would eliminate the need to cart equipment over for RON aircraft.

DCA is going to be 2x daily on the A320. Regarding LAS, I think they can rotate a 737-800 with CVG routes somewhat like CVG-MCO-LAS-CVG with the LAS flight being a red eye (let’s say it arrives at 6am), CVG can be an 830am or 9am departure. I think an A319 can do MSY and AUS. A routing such as MCO-MIA-MCO-MSY-MCO-MIA-MCO or ABC-MIA-MCO-AUS-MCO-MIA-ABC

flymco753 wrote:

crownvic wrote:

Does anyone know where the JSX flights depart from at MCO? Is it from the Westside general aviation side? Also, I believe it was mentioned earlier, but United will be offerering a few nonstop extra session flights direct from MCO to LAS for the CES convention. Sure would be nice if those become annual.

DL is offering LAS for CES as well.

I posted it above but I am really interest in seeing what DL can do moving forward. The infrastructure is there for them to completely occupy 70s and 80s. This would eliminate the need to cart equipment over for RON aircraft.

DCA is going to be 2x daily on the A320. Regarding LAS, I think they can rotate a 737-800 with CVG routes somewhat like CVG-MCO-LAS-CVG with the LAS flight being a red eye (let’s say it arrives at 6am), CVG can be an 830am or 9am departure. I think an A319 can do MSY and AUS. A routing such as MCO-MIA-MCO-MSY-MCO-MIA-MCO or ABC-MIA-MCO-AUS-MCO-MIA-ABC

That's where I am leading my inference towards, there will be a lot more room for growth on that airside now. I can really see DL adding more routes out of MCO in the near-term. MCO to SFO is wishful thinking. I would hope one of the three legacy carriers would really move forward to building a bit of growth out of MCO now that Terminal C has opened up and there's more room for potential growth.

Scraig08 wrote:

flymco753 wrote:

crownvic wrote:

Does anyone know where the JSX flights depart from at MCO? Is it from the Westside general aviation side? Also, I believe it was mentioned earlier, but United will be offerering a few nonstop extra session flights direct from MCO to LAS for the CES convention. Sure would be nice if those become annual.

DL is offering LAS for CES as well.

I posted it above but I am really interest in seeing what DL can do moving forward. The infrastructure is there for them to completely occupy 70s and 80s. This would eliminate the need to cart equipment over for RON aircraft.

DCA is going to be 2x daily on the A320. Regarding LAS, I think they can rotate a 737-800 with CVG routes somewhat like CVG-MCO-LAS-CVG with the LAS flight being a red eye (let’s say it arrives at 6am), CVG can be an 830am or 9am departure. I think an A319 can do MSY and AUS. A routing such as MCO-MIA-MCO-MSY-MCO-MIA-MCO or ABC-MIA-MCO-AUS-MCO-MIA-ABC

That's where I am leading my inference towards, there will be a lot more room for growth on that airside now. I can really see DL adding more routes out of MCO in the near-term. MCO to SFO is wishful thinking. I would hope one of the three legacy carriers would really move forward to building a bit of growth out of MCO now that Terminal C has opened up and there's more room for potential growth.

Yes, and I think What DL’s strategy is moving forward with MCO is catering to the large FF base. A lot of people already travel to hubs from here like DTW and MSP because of families who moved here or snowbirds. These other markets will help cater to the FF base here especially LAS.

flymco753 wrote:

Scraig08 wrote:

flymco753 wrote:

DL is offering LAS for CES as well.

I posted it above but I am really interest in seeing what DL can do moving forward. The infrastructure is there for them to completely occupy 70s and 80s. This would eliminate the need to cart equipment over for RON aircraft.

DCA is going to be 2x daily on the A320. Regarding LAS, I think they can rotate a 737-800 with CVG routes somewhat like CVG-MCO-LAS-CVG with the LAS flight being a red eye (let’s say it arrives at 6am), CVG can be an 830am or 9am departure. I think an A319 can do MSY and AUS. A routing such as MCO-MIA-MCO-MSY-MCO-MIA-MCO or ABC-MIA-MCO-AUS-MCO-MIA-ABC

That's where I am leading my inference towards, there will be a lot more room for growth on that airside now. I can really see DL adding more routes out of MCO in the near-term. MCO to SFO is wishful thinking. I would hope one of the three legacy carriers would really move forward to building a bit of growth out of MCO now that Terminal C has opened up and there's more room for potential growth.

Yes, and I think What DL’s strategy is moving forward with MCO is catering to the large FF base. A lot of people already travel to hubs from here like DTW and MSP because of families who moved here or snowbirds. These other markets will help cater to the FF base here especially LAS.

Unlikely to happen but I would like to see DL build up MCO the way they are building up AUS but I think geography is going to inhibit that from occurring. I think daily flights to MSY and AUS would do extremely well. LAS would work in your situation. An evening flight to LAS and returns to MCO on the red-eye.

It baffles me how MIA fanboys think DL has a more reputable operation in MIA compared to MCO.

tismfu wrote:

krod031 wrote:

aviationMCO8 wrote:

Anyone noticed that JSX quietly added MCO to their route network? DAL/HPN flights.... I do not know the frequency, but I saw on FR24 a JSX aircraft come in from DAL today and on the airports wiki, JSX is listed as an airline that flies in. No announcement I have seen from MCO either.

I recall seeing an announcement in the past for this because i looked at the pricing for them rather recently as i always wanted to fly them. If i recall correctly, i think it got overshadowed by a Breeze or Avelo announcement.

I regularly fly Dallas-MCO and only stumbled upon the new JSX service because I was on their website for other reasons. Typing this currently via Starlink Wi-Fi on my MCO-DAL return flight. The flight was half empty as of yesterday but this morning was mostly booked. Not sure where they are advertising, if at all, as I haven’t seen it.

Interestingly enough, per JSX website, MCO-MIA starts on 2/16/22, only running until the end of March.

MCO-MIA operates on Thursdays
MIA-MCO operates on Mondays.

flymco753 wrote:

Scraig08 wrote:

DL starting service to DCA in October. Could see more P2P routes out of MCO. Some that come to mind are BNA, LAS, BDL, AUS (50/50), and SFO to compete against UA and AS

DCA wasn’t totally left field, I would certainly have thought LAS would come first. MIA will gain a 3rd flight during this time as well.

I have a difficult time seeing DL make the attempt for SFO, UA has a tight grip on that market when it comes to a legacy product. I hope to see LAS, AUS, and MSY join DCA. LAS would make a good 738 rotation with CVG, AUS and MSY could probably work on a 319.

FWIW, DL flew MCO-SFO operated by Song during the 2000s.

flymco753 wrote:

It baffles me how MIA fanboys think DL has a more reputable operation in MIA compared to MCO.

Not even sure what reputable is supposed to mean, but Delta is building a focus city in Miami, not Orlando. That’s not a secret. Delta has been public about that. Delta’s networks from MIA and MCO are near mirror images at the moment - only differences are SEA/CVG are flown only from FLL, AMS is flown by KLM and MIA also has HAV. And naturally of course, Delta’s SkyTeam partners are much larger in Miami.

It baffles me that people think Delta adding MCODCA is a sign of a major domestic expansion that is never going to happen.

MAH4546 wrote:

flymco753 wrote:

It baffles me how MIA fanboys think DL has a more reputable operation in MIA compared to MCO.

Not even sure what reputable is supposed to mean, but Delta is building a focus city in Miami, not Orlando. That’s not a secret. Delta has been public about that. Delta’s networks from MIA and MCO are near mirror images at the moment - only differences are SEA/CVG are flown only from FLL, AMS is flown by KLM and MIA also has HAV. And naturally of course, Delta’s SkyTeam partners are much larger in Miami.

It baffles me that people think Delta adding MCODCA is a sign of a major domestic expansion that is never going to happen.

I respectfully disagree. Let's look at both frequency and capacity for both MCO and MIA on just Delta metal.

MCO on Friday January 20, 2023:
AMS 1x 333
ATL 6x 757, 4x 753, 4x 76W, 1x 764
BOS 4x A321
CVG 2x 738
DTW 1x 321, 4x 753, 1x 332
JFK 5x 321
LAX 4x 32Q
LGA 6x 321
MIA 2x 319
MSP 1x 321 3x 753 1x 333
RDU 2x 320 1x 319
SEA 2x 32Q
SLC 5x 321
Total departures: 60

MIA on Friday January 20, 2023:
ATL 1x 321 8x 757
BOS 1x 738
DTW 1x 739 1x 321
LAX 1x 739
MSP 2x 739
JFK 4x 321
LGA 4x 321
MCO 2x 319
RDU 1x 320
SLC 1x 739
Total daily departures: 27

MCO has a flight attendant base, MIA does not. MCO has DL employees from the ramp tower, to ticketing, to ramp and from aircraft to GSE maintenance, MIA does not. MCO has the real estate to effectively expand with FIS capabilities and limited towing, MIA does not. There is just so much that MCO has and will have compared to what MIA will ever have for Delta.

flymco753 wrote:

MAH4546 wrote:

flymco753 wrote:

It baffles me how MIA fanboys think DL has a more reputable operation in MIA compared to MCO.

Not even sure what reputable is supposed to mean, but Delta is building a focus city in Miami, not Orlando. That’s not a secret. Delta has been public about that. Delta’s networks from MIA and MCO are near mirror images at the moment - only differences are SEA/CVG are flown only from FLL, AMS is flown by KLM and MIA also has HAV. And naturally of course, Delta’s SkyTeam partners are much larger in Miami.

It baffles me that people think Delta adding MCODCA is a sign of a major domestic expansion that is never going to happen.

I respectfully disagree. Let's look at both frequency and capacity for both MCO and MIA on just Delta metal.

MCO on Friday January 20, 2023:
AMS 1x 333
ATL 6x 757, 4x 753, 4x 76W, 1x 764
BOS 4x A321
CVG 2x 738
DTW 1x 321, 4x 753, 1x 332
JFK 5x 321
LAX 4x 32Q
LGA 6x 321
MIA 2x 319
MSP 1x 321 3x 753 1x 333
RDU 2x 320 1x 319
SEA 2x 32Q
SLC 5x 321
Total departures: 60

MIA on Friday January 20, 2023:
ATL 1x 321 8x 757
BOS 1x 738
DTW 1x 739 1x 321
LAX 1x 739
MSP 2x 739
JFK 4x 321
LGA 4x 321
MCO 2x 319
RDU 1x 320
SLC 1x 739
Total daily departures: 27

MCO has a flight attendant base, MIA does not. MCO has DL employees from the ramp tower, to ticketing, to ramp and from aircraft to GSE maintenance, MIA does not. MCO has the real estate to effectively expand with FIS capabilities and limited towing, MIA does not. There is just so much that MCO has and will have compared to what MIA will ever have for Delta.

Incorrect about DL not having a flight attendant base. They do indeed have a FLL/MIA flight attendant base where they cover both airports.

AviationScorpio wrote:

flymco753 wrote:

MAH4546 wrote:

Not even sure what reputable is supposed to mean, but Delta is building a focus city in Miami, not Orlando. That’s not a secret. Delta has been public about that. Delta’s networks from MIA and MCO are near mirror images at the moment - only differences are SEA/CVG are flown only from FLL, AMS is flown by KLM and MIA also has HAV. And naturally of course, Delta’s SkyTeam partners are much larger in Miami.

It baffles me that people think Delta adding MCODCA is a sign of a major domestic expansion that is never going to happen.

I respectfully disagree. Let's look at both frequency and capacity for both MCO and MIA on just Delta metal.

MCO on Friday January 20, 2023:
AMS 1x 333
ATL 6x 757, 4x 753, 4x 76W, 1x 764
BOS 4x A321
CVG 2x 738
DTW 1x 321, 4x 753, 1x 332
JFK 5x 321
LAX 4x 32Q
LGA 6x 321
MIA 2x 319
MSP 1x 321 3x 753 1x 333
RDU 2x 320 1x 319
SEA 2x 32Q
SLC 5x 321
Total departures: 60

MIA on Friday January 20, 2023:
ATL 1x 321 8x 757
BOS 1x 738
DTW 1x 739 1x 321
LAX 1x 739
MSP 2x 739
JFK 4x 321
LGA 4x 321
MCO 2x 319
RDU 1x 320
SLC 1x 739
Total daily departures: 27

MCO has a flight attendant base, MIA does not. MCO has DL employees from the ramp tower, to ticketing, to ramp and from aircraft to GSE maintenance, MIA does not. MCO has the real estate to effectively expand with FIS capabilities and limited towing, MIA does not. There is just so much that MCO has and will have compared to what MIA will ever have for Delta.

Incorrect about DL not having a flight attendant base. They do indeed have a FLL/MIA flight attendant base where they cover both airports.

Now you bring FLL into the equation, it becomes a slightly different conversation because we're talking about splitting an operation between two airports. FLL is where the infrastructure lies for the Miami Area FA base for DL.

flymco753 wrote:

MAH4546 wrote:

flymco753 wrote:

It baffles me how MIA fanboys think DL has a more reputable operation in MIA compared to MCO.

Not even sure what reputable is supposed to mean, but Delta is building a focus city in Miami, not Orlando. That’s not a secret. Delta has been public about that. Delta’s networks from MIA and MCO are near mirror images at the moment - only differences are SEA/CVG are flown only from FLL, AMS is flown by KLM and MIA also has HAV. And naturally of course, Delta’s SkyTeam partners are much larger in Miami.

It baffles me that people think Delta adding MCODCA is a sign of a major domestic expansion that is never going to happen.

I respectfully disagree. Let's look at both frequency and capacity for both MCO and MIA on just Delta metal.

MCO on Friday January 20, 2023:
AMS 1x 333
ATL 6x 757, 4x 753, 4x 76W, 1x 764
BOS 4x A321
CVG 2x 738
DTW 1x 321, 4x 753, 1x 332
JFK 5x 321
LAX 4x 32Q
LGA 6x 321
MIA 2x 319
MSP 1x 321 3x 753 1x 333
RDU 2x 320 1x 319
SEA 2x 32Q
SLC 5x 321
Total departures: 60

MIA on Friday January 20, 2023:
ATL 1x 321 8x 757
BOS 1x 738
DTW 1x 739 1x 321
LAX 1x 739
MSP 2x 739
JFK 4x 321
LGA 4x 321
MCO 2x 319
RDU 1x 320
SLC 1x 739
Total daily departures: 27

MCO has a flight attendant base, MIA does not. MCO has DL employees from the ramp tower, to ticketing, to ramp and from aircraft to GSE maintenance, MIA does not. MCO has the real estate to effectively expand with FIS capabilities and limited towing, MIA does not. There is just so much that MCO has and will have compared to what MIA will ever have for Delta.

Miami is a crew base for Delta. Delta also has the infrastructure in Miami, because it's a common use facility, so it has access to everything it needs. No airline - not even AA - has gate leases at MIA. The airport reasonably accommodates all requests for gate space (it hasn't run out...yet. But getting there).

I never said Delta is bigger in Miami than Orlando - but Delta is building Miami out as a gateway, it is not doing that in Orlando. Delta is adding frequency on MIA-RDU/BOS/LAX/MCO this year and resuming twice daily to HAV (which will become thrice daily if they get the okay to move the ATL slot) and there will be some new routes on the horizon as well alongside the announced DCA. This isn't some sort of secret, Delta has publicity stated this as part of it's venture with LATAM it will build a gateway at MIA.

MAH4546 wrote:

flymco753 wrote:

MAH4546 wrote:

Not even sure what reputable is supposed to mean, but Delta is building a focus city in Miami, not Orlando. That’s not a secret. Delta has been public about that. Delta’s networks from MIA and MCO are near mirror images at the moment - only differences are SEA/CVG are flown only from FLL, AMS is flown by KLM and MIA also has HAV. And naturally of course, Delta’s SkyTeam partners are much larger in Miami.

It baffles me that people think Delta adding MCODCA is a sign of a major domestic expansion that is never going to happen.

I respectfully disagree. Let's look at both frequency and capacity for both MCO and MIA on just Delta metal.

MCO on Friday January 20, 2023:
AMS 1x 333
ATL 6x 757, 4x 753, 4x 76W, 1x 764
BOS 4x A321
CVG 2x 738
DTW 1x 321, 4x 753, 1x 332
JFK 5x 321
LAX 4x 32Q
LGA 6x 321
MIA 2x 319
MSP 1x 321 3x 753 1x 333
RDU 2x 320 1x 319
SEA 2x 32Q
SLC 5x 321
Total departures: 60

MIA on Friday January 20, 2023:
ATL 1x 321 8x 757
BOS 1x 738
DTW 1x 739 1x 321
LAX 1x 739
MSP 2x 739
JFK 4x 321
LGA 4x 321
MCO 2x 319
RDU 1x 320
SLC 1x 739
Total daily departures: 27

MCO has a flight attendant base, MIA does not. MCO has DL employees from the ramp tower, to ticketing, to ramp and from aircraft to GSE maintenance, MIA does not. MCO has the real estate to effectively expand with FIS capabilities and limited towing, MIA does not. There is just so much that MCO has and will have compared to what MIA will ever have for Delta.

Miami is a crew base for Delta. Delta also has the infrastructure in Miami, because it's a common use facility, so it has access to everything it needs. No airline - not even AA - has gate leases at MIA. The airport reasonably accommodates all requests for gate space (it hasn't run out...yet. But getting there).

I never said Delta is bigger in Miami than Orlando - but Delta is building Miami out as a gateway, it is not doing that in Orlando. Delta is adding frequency on MIA-RDU/BOS/LAX/MCO this year and resuming twice daily to HAV (which will become thrice daily if they get the okay to move the ATL slot) and there will be some new routes on the horizon as well alongside the announced DCA. This isn't some sort of secret, Delta has publicity stated this as part of it's venture with LATAM it will build a gateway at MIA.

When it comes to this MCO vs MIA argument, it's based off definition of gateway. I used to live in the Metro Detroit Area, that to me is a gateway (hence the nickname WorldGateway). Can DL build an operation out of MIA? Sure, add some in house ramp agents and build a little more of a domestic portfolio then it will change my mind. While DL isn't what it was in MCO compared to the Song or Delta Express days, it still fits the criteria as a focus city would at this time. MCO does handle hub connections onward to Virgin Atlantic and there seems to be a decent number of MIA connections onto the AMS flight.

flymco753 wrote:

MAH4546 wrote:

flymco753 wrote:

I respectfully disagree. Let's look at both frequency and capacity for both MCO and MIA on just Delta metal.

MCO on Friday January 20, 2023:
AMS 1x 333
ATL 6x 757, 4x 753, 4x 76W, 1x 764
BOS 4x A321
CVG 2x 738
DTW 1x 321, 4x 753, 1x 332
JFK 5x 321
LAX 4x 32Q
LGA 6x 321
MIA 2x 319
MSP 1x 321 3x 753 1x 333
RDU 2x 320 1x 319
SEA 2x 32Q
SLC 5x 321
Total departures: 60

MIA on Friday January 20, 2023:
ATL 1x 321 8x 757
BOS 1x 738
DTW 1x 739 1x 321
LAX 1x 739
MSP 2x 739
JFK 4x 321
LGA 4x 321
MCO 2x 319
RDU 1x 320
SLC 1x 739
Total daily departures: 27

MCO has a flight attendant base, MIA does not. MCO has DL employees from the ramp tower, to ticketing, to ramp and from aircraft to GSE maintenance, MIA does not. MCO has the real estate to effectively expand with FIS capabilities and limited towing, MIA does not. There is just so much that MCO has and will have compared to what MIA will ever have for Delta.

Miami is a crew base for Delta. Delta also has the infrastructure in Miami, because it's a common use facility, so it has access to everything it needs. No airline - not even AA - has gate leases at MIA. The airport reasonably accommodates all requests for gate space (it hasn't run out...yet. But getting there).

I never said Delta is bigger in Miami than Orlando - but Delta is building Miami out as a gateway, it is not doing that in Orlando. Delta is adding frequency on MIA-RDU/BOS/LAX/MCO this year and resuming twice daily to HAV (which will become thrice daily if they get the okay to move the ATL slot) and there will be some new routes on the horizon as well alongside the announced DCA. This isn't some sort of secret, Delta has publicity stated this as part of it's venture with LATAM it will build a gateway at MIA.

When it comes to this MCO vs MIA argument, it's based off definition of gateway. I used to live in the Metro Detroit Area, that to me is a gateway (hence the nickname WorldGateway). Can DL build an operation out of MIA? Sure, add some in house ramp agents and build a little more of a domestic portfolio then it will change my mind. While DL isn't what it was in MCO compared to the Song or Delta Express days, it still fits the criteria as a focus city would at this time. MCO does handle hub connections onward to Virgin Atlantic and there seems to be a decent number of MIA connections onto the AMS flight.

And MIA does handle onward connections, too. All four long-haul SkyTeam airlines from Europe fly to Miami - AF (to both Paris and the French Caribbean), KLM, Air Europa and ITA - plus Virgin Atlantic, of course, and then there's the extensive LATAM network with all five LATAM airlines flying to Miami - LATAM, LATAM Brasil, LATAM Colombia, LATAM Ecuador and LATAM Peru - plus Aerolineas Argentinas and AeroMexico. It's literally building up that domestic portfolio as we speak. BOS, RDU, SLC, LAX, MCO and DCA are all relatively new additions, the first to come of others.