Alaska Airlines Fleet Network and News Discussion - 2022

SANFan · Sun Apr 24, 2022 7:32 pm

Please, what dates are these changes concentrated on this week? Is it more of the June 16 peak summer sked, or May, or the Fall? (I haven't gotten to it yet.)

It is very hard to watch this keep happening at Alaska -- and other cx as well of course. Especially with AS receiving new a/c; I wonder if we may see the 'Buses go even earlier than expected.

bb

CMHtraveler · Sun Apr 24, 2022 7:33 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
AC4500 wrote:
Staffing issues continue to plague AS, reflected in this weekend's summer schedule update.

For example at PDX, PDX-ANC down to just 1x daily, PDX-ABQ/AUS reduced to 4x weekly. PDX-MSP reduced to 5x weekly. PDX-DAL/KOA/LIH/PSP all gone. All PDX-Montana routes (BIL/BZN/FCA/MSO) are now only operating on Saturdays. Long list of other cuts as well. I'll be here all day if I list them all out.

I suppose they're ALL out of PDX, as you suggested in your post. Whoa is PDX.

Nope, not all. The planned second daily summer frequency on CMH-SEA is gone after May, back to 1x daily.

AC4500 · Sun Apr 24, 2022 8:35 pm

SANFan wrote:
Please, what dates are these changes concentrated on this week? Is it more of the June 16 peak summer sked, or May, or the Fall? (I haven't gotten to it yet.)

It is very hard to watch this keep happening at Alaska -- and other cx as well of course. Especially with AS receiving new a/c; I wonder if we may see the 'Buses go even earlier than expected.

bb

I'm seeing drastic cuts in both June and July.

GSPSPOT · Sun Apr 24, 2022 9:14 pm

Is a one roundtrip per day market like MKE safe in all this?

Midwestindy · Sun Apr 24, 2022 11:33 pm

CMHtraveler wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
AC4500 wrote:
Staffing issues continue to plague AS, reflected in this weekend's summer schedule update.

For example at PDX, PDX-ANC down to just 1x daily, PDX-ABQ/AUS reduced to 4x weekly. PDX-MSP reduced to 5x weekly. PDX-DAL/KOA/LIH/PSP all gone. All PDX-Montana routes (BIL/BZN/FCA/MSO) are now only operating on Saturdays. Long list of other cuts as well. I'll be here all day if I list them all out.

I suppose they're ALL out of PDX, as you suggested in your post. Whoa is PDX.

Nope, not all. The planned second daily summer frequency on CMH-SEA is gone after May, back to 1x daily.

Not sure if all of the ones below happened yesterday, but quite a few of these happened over the course of the past few weeks. Certainly not unique to PDX

For late June (Friday June 24) these are some changes I noticed, some like SMF and SJC get some frequencies back in July (tentatively) but still....
PVR-SEA goes from 1x daily to 2x weekly
IDA-SEA goes from 2x daily to 1x daily
ABQ-SEA goes from 2x daily to 1x daily
SAT-SEA goes from 2x daily to 1x daily
MCI-SEA goes from 3x daily to 2x daily
MSP-SEA goes from 3x daily to 2x daily
ATL-SEA goes from 4x daily to 3x daily
AUS-SEA goes from 4x daily to 3x daily
HNL-SEA goes from 4x daily to 3x daily
OGG-SEA goes from 4x daily to 3x daily
ONT-SEA goes from 4x daily to 3x daily
RNO-SEA goes from 4x daily to 3x daily
SLC-SEA goes from 5x daily to 4x daily
FAI-SEA goes from 6x daily to 4x daily
KTN-SEA goes from 6x daily to 5x daily
JNU-SEA goes from 7x daily to 5x daily
SMF-SEA goes from 7x daily to 5x daily
SJC-SEA goes from 8x daily to 5x daily
e.t.c.

https://www.flightsfrom.com/SEA/destina ... -06-26#ABQ

SANFan · Mon Apr 25, 2022 3:14 am

I've finally had a chance to look at SAN following the latest 6/16 thru 8/15 sked changes (from last night) and I see about 3 markets that saw very minor frequency cuts (from 2 daily flights to 1.7/day in SAN-STS, for example) and service to JAC has been totally dropped (from 3 flights/week showing last week.) However, last week we lost our 2nd summer HNL flight along with our 2nd BOS nonstop being cut (but we still have 1 daily n/s in each market.) So far. Different markets being "adjusted" at different times?

I don't know if they'll keep chopping away at the summer schedule right up to June 16 but I guess it depends on staffing, fuel, covid, etc. Recently, (IMO) AS has seemed to lock in the schedules about 1.5-2 months out, with the occasional last-minute adjustments.

I'm really pretty pleased with how well SAN has held together even though every cut, every retreat in a market hurts. I guess the part that is really tough is that these latest cuts -- assuming staffing shortages are the primary cause -- are prolly removing seats from inventory that would be filled if they were flown; these are not frequencies and routes being cut because the traffic is not there but because there aren't personnel to operate them. That is really unfortunate.

These latest cuts in SAN still set the June-July skeds at about 60 daily departures to 29 destinations. I'll take it!

bb

wedgetail737 · Mon Apr 25, 2022 3:36 am

Midwestindy wrote:
CMHtraveler wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:

I suppose they're ALL out of PDX, as you suggested in your post. Whoa is PDX.

Nope, not all. The planned second daily summer frequency on CMH-SEA is gone after May, back to 1x daily.

Not sure if all of the ones below happened yesterday, but quite a few of these happened over the course of the past few weeks. Certainly not unique to PDX

For late June (Friday June 24) these are some changes I noticed, some like SMF and SJC get some frequencies back in July (tentatively) but still....
PVR-SEA goes from 1x daily to 2x weekly
IDA-SEA goes from 2x daily to 1x daily
ABQ-SEA goes from 2x daily to 1x daily
SAT-SEA goes from 2x daily to 1x daily
MCI-SEA goes from 3x daily to 2x daily
MSP-SEA goes from 3x daily to 2x daily
ATL-SEA goes from 4x daily to 3x daily
AUS-SEA goes from 4x daily to 3x daily
HNL-SEA goes from 4x daily to 3x daily
OGG-SEA goes from 4x daily to 3x daily
ONT-SEA goes from 4x daily to 3x daily
RNO-SEA goes from 4x daily to 3x daily
SLC-SEA goes from 5x daily to 4x daily
FAI-SEA goes from 6x daily to 4x daily
KTN-SEA goes from 6x daily to 5x daily
JNU-SEA goes from 7x daily to 5x daily
SMF-SEA goes from 7x daily to 5x daily
SJC-SEA goes from 8x daily to 5x daily
e.t.c.

https://www.flightsfrom.com/SEA/destina ... -06-26#ABQ

Thank you! That's the kind of data I like to see. Then I take my comment back about PDX-only cuts. It doesn't look like SEA is losing any city-pairs like PDX.

wedgetail737 · Mon Apr 25, 2022 3:41 am

Question for all of you...and this might be a really stupid question. It seems like the conversations seem to be centric to pilots, but aren't shortages across the board, including flight attendants, gate agents, ramp agents, etc.?

hayzel777 · Mon Apr 25, 2022 4:27 am

wedgetail737 wrote:
Question for all of you...and this might be a really stupid question. It seems like the conversations seem to be centric to pilots, but aren't shortages across the board, including flight attendants, gate agents, ramp agents, etc.?

Ground based worker shortages can easily be combatted with mandatory overtime and reduced staffing per turn (in exchange for a likely delay). Just look at WN right now.
If staffing really is critical, managers and other staff can step in to cover. No airline would ever cancel for a staffing shortfall on the ground (unless there’s a strike).

Not sure about AS but some flight attendant contracts do allow FA’s to be forced into working trips on their off days to cover the staffing shortfalls. American is a prime example of this.

Pilots cannot be forced into mandatory overtime. Open time pickup is at the pilots discretion and subject to compliance with 14 CFR Part 117 and the union contract (days off stipulation etc.).

32andBelow · Mon Apr 25, 2022 6:54 am

hayzel777 wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
Question for all of you...and this might be a really stupid question. It seems like the conversations seem to be centric to pilots, but aren't shortages across the board, including flight attendants, gate agents, ramp agents, etc.?

Ground based worker shortages can easily be combatted with mandatory overtime and reduced staffing per turn (in exchange for a likely delay). Just look at WN right now.
If staffing really is critical, managers and other staff can step in to cover. No airline would ever cancel for a staffing shortfall on the ground (unless there’s a strike).

Not sure about AS but some flight attendant contracts do allow FA’s to be forced into working trips on their off days to cover the staffing shortfalls. American is a prime example of this.

Pilots cannot be forced into mandatory overtime. Open time pickup is at the pilots discretion and subject to compliance with 14 CFR Part 117 and the union contract (days off stipulation etc.).

there are junior assignment procedures at some airlines. Yea you have to comply with 117 but the pilot contract will cover how extra flights are to be assigned or not assigned

EA CO AS · Mon Apr 25, 2022 9:29 am

hayzel777 wrote:
Ground based worker shortages can easily be combatted with mandatory overtime.

They can be helped, but not easily corrected. Hiring corrects, not junior assigning. That's really meant as a short term fix for isolated issues, not an ongoing staffing tool. It's easy to burn out your staff, which leads to higher absenteeism, causing the effects of being understaffed to worsen over time.

AS intends to hire at least 4000 new employees this year, many by July 1st. This is especially true at airports, in the contact centers, and inflight.

gmcc · Mon Apr 25, 2022 1:59 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
Question for all of you...and this might be a really stupid question. It seems like the conversations seem to be centric to pilots, but aren't shortages across the board, including flight attendants, gate agents, ramp agents, etc.?

You hear about pilots the most because the news can make the connection between an airline and pilot shortage pretty easily the a 30 second segment A quick scan of Alaska's or Mcgee's jobs site show the shortages are broard based. As the shortages continue, base pay rates and bonuses have gone up, up to $10k for some positions. AS and most of the other airlines haven't reach the point where the wages are compelling enough to get people to apply.

kjnslSLC · Mon Apr 25, 2022 3:08 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
CMHtraveler wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:

I suppose they're ALL out of PDX, as you suggested in your post. Whoa is PDX.

Nope, not all. The planned second daily summer frequency on CMH-SEA is gone after May, back to 1x daily.

Not sure if all of the ones below happened yesterday, but quite a few of these happened over the course of the past few weeks. Certainly not unique to PDX

For late June (Friday June 24) these are some changes I noticed, some like SMF and SJC get some frequencies back in July (tentatively) but still....
PVR-SEA goes from 1x daily to 2x weekly
IDA-SEA goes from 2x daily to 1x daily
ABQ-SEA goes from 2x daily to 1x daily
SAT-SEA goes from 2x daily to 1x daily
MCI-SEA goes from 3x daily to 2x daily
MSP-SEA goes from 3x daily to 2x daily
ATL-SEA goes from 4x daily to 3x daily
AUS-SEA goes from 4x daily to 3x daily
HNL-SEA goes from 4x daily to 3x daily
OGG-SEA goes from 4x daily to 3x daily
ONT-SEA goes from 4x daily to 3x daily
RNO-SEA goes from 4x daily to 3x daily
SLC-SEA goes from 5x daily to 4x daily
FAI-SEA goes from 6x daily to 4x daily
KTN-SEA goes from 6x daily to 5x daily
JNU-SEA goes from 7x daily to 5x daily
SMF-SEA goes from 7x daily to 5x daily
SJC-SEA goes from 8x daily to 5x daily
e.t.c.

https://www.flightsfrom.com/SEA/destina ... -06-26#ABQ

The 5th daily frequency from SLC was quickly returned (for summer, at least).

32andBelow · Mon Apr 25, 2022 6:09 pm

Wow they canceled anchnl for 6 months almost. They really know how to stick it to their most loyal customers

jbs2886 · Mon Apr 25, 2022 6:18 pm

32andBelow wrote:
Wow they canceled anchnl for 6 months almost. They really know how to stick it to their most loyal customers

Well those customers must not be flying the route much for it to have been chopped...

F9Animal · Mon Apr 25, 2022 8:20 pm

GSPSPOT wrote:
Is a one roundtrip per day market like MKE safe in all this?

Absolutely safe. It's just temporary till Alaska can get itself back up and fully operational. Alot of airlines bit off more than they could chew when bringing back flights when things opened back up. I'm sure MKE will be just fine.

roadrunner165 · Mon Apr 25, 2022 11:34 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Wow they canceled anchnl for 6 months almost. They really know how to stick it to their most loyal customers

Well those customers must not be flying the route much for it to have been chopped...

Perhaps, perhaps not. ANC to Hawaii is heavily used with companion fares. As someone else previously said, some routes are practically sponsored by Bank of America.

While on paper the flight probably is credited some amount for the companion fare, but nothing close to real cash values would be my guess. With the summer season and pilot shortage they’re going after money today, potentially screwing over some loyal fliers in the process.

32andBelow · Tue Apr 26, 2022 12:15 am

roadrunner165 wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Wow they canceled anchnl for 6 months almost. They really know how to stick it to their most loyal customers

Well those customers must not be flying the route much for it to have been chopped...

Perhaps, perhaps not. ANC to Hawaii is heavily used with companion fares. As someone else previously said, some routes are practically sponsored by Bank of America.

While on paper the flight probably is credited some amount for the companion fare, but nothing close to real cash values would be my guess. With the summer season and pilot shortage they’re going after money today, potentially screwing over some loyal fliers in the process.

Hawaiian or delta should jump on it

GSPSPOT · Tue Apr 26, 2022 12:36 am

F9Animal wrote:
GSPSPOT wrote:
Is a one roundtrip per day market like MKE safe in all this?

Absolutely safe. It's just temporary till Alaska can get itself back up and fully operational. Alot of airlines bit off more than they could chew when bringing back flights when things opened back up. I'm sure MKE will be just fine.

Good to know. We just flew the route last week, and both flights were full.

usxguy · Wed Apr 27, 2022 1:55 am

32andBelow wrote:
Wow they canceled anchnl for 6 months almost. They really know how to stick it to their most loyal customers

I just got burned by this too... was able to move to a daytime flight thru Seattle. But it now just means higher fares for Alaskans to Hawaii as we now to fly to Seattle & battle for the affordable fares on that route with everyone else.

sxf24 · Wed Apr 27, 2022 1:57 am

usxguy wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Wow they canceled anchnl for 6 months almost. They really know how to stick it to their most loyal customers

I just got burned by this too... was able to move to a daytime flight thru Seattle. But it now just means higher fares for Alaskans to Hawaii as we now to fly to Seattle & battle for the affordable fares on that route with everyone else.

Isn’t traffic from Alaska to Hawaii greatest in the winter? I’m sure the flight comes back.

wedgetail737 · Wed Apr 27, 2022 2:22 am

32andBelow wrote:
roadrunner165 wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:

Well those customers must not be flying the route much for it to have been chopped...

Perhaps, perhaps not. ANC to Hawaii is heavily used with companion fares. As someone else previously said, some routes are practically sponsored by Bank of America.

While on paper the flight probably is credited some amount for the companion fare, but nothing close to real cash values would be my guess. With the summer season and pilot shortage they’re going after money today, potentially screwing over some loyal fliers in the process.

Hawaiian or delta should jump on it

HA once did fly the ANC-HNL using 767-300's for a while. I'm not sure why HA hasn't returned to ANC with their A321-NEO's (at least). Never say never, but I think it's unlikely that DL would fly the ANC-HNL route.

AA737-823 · Wed Apr 27, 2022 2:51 am

It looks like ANC-SFO is gone, and also LAX-DAL, both for late June to early July dates.
That's making it tricky to get from ANC to DAL, as it rules out both California connection points. And the SEA-DAL times are, at this point, suboptimal.

DaCubbyBearBar · Wed Apr 27, 2022 11:47 am

We sit here, without knowing any specifics, and going on what makes sense. AS management knows the actual revenue generated and has predicted that the market is better not being served for 5 months, we shall see. I do think we will see HA jump in with an A321…..

AWACSooner · Wed Apr 27, 2022 12:25 pm

AA737-823 wrote:
It looks like ANC-SFO is gone, and also LAX-DAL, both for late June to early July dates.
That's making it tricky to get from ANC to DAL, as it rules out both California connection points. And the SEA-DAL times are, at this point, suboptimal.

Yep...just had to call them (for the umpteenth time) last Sunday for their latest DAL schedule changes (including that SFO-ANC leg that I was tagging on from DAL in November). It's almost a weekly tradition for me: wake up Sunday morning, refresh all my AS itineraries for the rest of the year, see three or more of them have schedule changes that don't work, call AS to change them to times that work for me, tell agent I'll talk to them again next Sunday.
AS changes their schedules out of DAL so much, I think they're doing it for sport.

32andBelow · Wed Apr 27, 2022 1:43 pm

DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
We sit here, without knowing any specifics, and going on what makes sense. AS management knows the actual revenue generated and has predicted that the market is better not being served for 5 months, we shall see. I do think we will see HA jump in with an A321…..

It just seems like they are in a total crisis and can’t even come close to staffing their schedule. There ar big connections between Alaska and Hawaii and a ton of Alaskans have houses in Hawaii and a ton of Hawaiians live in Alaska. Maybe it’s not their top performing route but it’s an important route. When you connect in Seattle you make almost no progress.

It almost seems 50/50 these days wether you are going to fly anything close to what you booked

jbs2886 · Wed Apr 27, 2022 4:44 pm

32andBelow wrote:
DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
We sit here, without knowing any specifics, and going on what makes sense. AS management knows the actual revenue generated and has predicted that the market is better not being served for 5 months, we shall see. I do think we will see HA jump in with an A321…..

It just seems like they are in a total crisis and can’t even come close to staffing their schedule. There ar big connections between Alaska and Hawaii and a ton of Alaskans have houses in Hawaii and a ton of Hawaiians live in Alaska. Maybe it’s not their top performing route but it’s an important route. When you connect in Seattle you make almost no progress.

It almost seems 50/50 these days wether you are going to fly anything close to what you booked

This is so overly dramatic. 50/50 if you're going to go? Yes, AS is having some issues and struggling on staffing, but its not like the airline is falling apart. Further, ANC-HNL may be important to some flyers, so I know it sucks for those flyers, but to say its an important route really misses the forest through the trees. ANC-SEA is an important route, ANC-HNL is not.

roadrunner165 · Wed Apr 27, 2022 6:25 pm

Regarding ANC-HNL being canceled for 6 month. The decision is what it is, but I still think dropping it enirely is short sighted. Hawaii isn't a cheap destination, and it wasn't like AS was giving away seats for a discount. Whenever I fly to Hawaii via Anchorage (twice since January of this year) I see the plane filled with solid middle and upper class individuals and families. Think Alaska based oil workers, contractors, business owners, state workers etc. Not a group of people you really want to alienate and feeling left out in the cold. And don't forget the reroute through Seattle vs a direct flight can easily add 5-10 hours on the trip each direction. It's a big deal. Before you could work at the office until noon, catch the afternoon direct flight and be to Honolulu by evening. Then return on the red-eye and arrive to Anchorage in time to get to work at 8am. And mind you, it was AS who for years pushed Hawaii and grew it as a top vacation destination for Alaskans, only to abandon it when times are tough for them.

This all reminds me, I need to call and rebook my wife, son and father-in-law's Honolulu flight in October which has been canceled....

F9Animal · Wed Apr 27, 2022 6:30 pm

I notice alot of people are upset at the cuts. I get it. At the same time, we have seen the airline struggle to keep it's current schedule operating. Yes, these cuts are tough! But, the leadership at Alaska knows something dramatic must be done to slow the day of flight cancellations.

Alaska isn't reducing it's schedule because it's losing money. It's just reducing it temporarily, so it can get the staffing levels back up to where it needs to be. I think most airlines came back too fast, not realizing they didn't have enough bodies to make it work properly.

Let's revisit this current issue in about a year. I'm confident the airline by then will be back to increasing the flight schedules again.

roadrunner165 · Wed Apr 27, 2022 6:38 pm

LOL I was wrong. 5-10 hours additional each way, I wish. I just check, previous routing had family leaving Nome at 1:00pm, change planes in Anchorage and arrive Honolulu about 9:30pm. So roughly 10 hours travel time. Now the best option on the search engine is leave Nome, change plane in Anchorage and arrive to Seattle about 8pm. After a 12 hour overnight layover you catch the morning flight and arrive in Honolulu at 12 Noon. 24 hours and 55 minutes after leaving Nome.

jbs2886 · Wed Apr 27, 2022 6:39 pm

F9Animal wrote:
I notice alot of people are upset at the cuts. I get it. At the same time, we have seen the airline struggle to keep it's current schedule operating. Yes, these cuts are tough! But, the leadership at Alaska knows something dramatic must be done to slow the day of flight cancellations.

Alaska isn't reducing it's schedule because it's losing money. It's just reducing it temporarily, so it can get the staffing levels back up to where it needs to be. I think most airlines came back too fast, not realizing they didn't have enough bodies to make it work properly.

Let's revisit this current issue in about a year. I'm confident the airline by then will be back to increasing the flight schedules again.

Exactly, people don't want the routes they want cut, but are happy to see others' routes cut. I get it - it sucks, but AS isn't personally targeting some flyers - its doing what it needs to do have an operation that works with the current limitations.

32andBelow · Wed Apr 27, 2022 6:46 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
F9Animal wrote:
I notice alot of people are upset at the cuts. I get it. At the same time, we have seen the airline struggle to keep it's current schedule operating. Yes, these cuts are tough! But, the leadership at Alaska knows something dramatic must be done to slow the day of flight cancellations.

Alaska isn't reducing it's schedule because it's losing money. It's just reducing it temporarily, so it can get the staffing levels back up to where it needs to be. I think most airlines came back too fast, not realizing they didn't have enough bodies to make it work properly.

Let's revisit this current issue in about a year. I'm confident the airline by then will be back to increasing the flight schedules again.

Exactly, people don't want the routes they want cut, but are happy to see others' routes cut. I get it - it sucks, but AS isn't personally targeting some flyers - its doing what it needs to do have an operation that works with the current limitations.

I guess it he cancelling a popular 6 hour once a day flight from the state with your name on it seems worse than cancelling a different flight that they operate several times per day.

jbs2886 · Wed Apr 27, 2022 6:49 pm

32andBelow wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
F9Animal wrote:
I notice alot of people are upset at the cuts. I get it. At the same time, we have seen the airline struggle to keep it's current schedule operating. Yes, these cuts are tough! But, the leadership at Alaska knows something dramatic must be done to slow the day of flight cancellations.

Alaska isn't reducing it's schedule because it's losing money. It's just reducing it temporarily, so it can get the staffing levels back up to where it needs to be. I think most airlines came back too fast, not realizing they didn't have enough bodies to make it work properly.

Let's revisit this current issue in about a year. I'm confident the airline by then will be back to increasing the flight schedules again.

Exactly, people don't want the routes they want cut, but are happy to see others' routes cut. I get it - it sucks, but AS isn't personally targeting some flyers - its doing what it needs to do have an operation that works with the current limitations.

I guess it he cancelling a popular 6 hour once a day flight from the state with your name on it seems worse than cancelling a different flight that they operate several times per day.

Please provide the stats to substantiate that ANC-HNL is a popular flight.

Also lol its worse because its the "Alaska" state name - didn't know AS can't touch those flights.

32andBelow · Wed Apr 27, 2022 7:04 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:

Exactly, people don't want the routes they want cut, but are happy to see others' routes cut. I get it - it sucks, but AS isn't personally targeting some flyers - its doing what it needs to do have an operation that works with the current limitations.

I guess it he cancelling a popular 6 hour once a day flight from the state with your name on it seems worse than cancelling a different flight that they operate several times per day.

Please provide the stats to substantiate that ANC-HNL is a popular flight.

Also lol its worse because its the "Alaska" state name - didn't know AS can't touch those flights.

Alaska said it was because of staffing not because of economics. Maybe reducing flights off roads with other carriers will effect peoples travel plans less since other carriers can pick up the slack.

jplatts · Wed Apr 27, 2022 7:32 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:

Exactly, people don't want the routes they want cut, but are happy to see others' routes cut. I get it - it sucks, but AS isn't personally targeting some flyers - its doing what it needs to do have an operation that works with the current limitations.

I guess it he cancelling a popular 6 hour once a day flight from the state with your name on it seems worse than cancelling a different flight that they operate several times per day.

Please provide the stats to substantiate that ANC-HNL is a popular flight.

Also lol its worse because its the "Alaska" state name - didn't know AS can't touch those flights.

ANC-SEA-HNL is 1,333 miles longer (4,125 mi) than ANC-HNL nonstop (2,777 mi). It makes sense for ANC to have nonstop service to Hawaii with the significant backtracking that is required to connect to Alaska from Hawaii through the contiguous U.S.

The difference in travel time between an ANC-HNL nonstop flight and an ANC-SEA-HNL connection is more than 4 hours.

The situation is different with respect to the cuts that AS is making at PDX as some of the destinations that AS was serving nonstop from PDX have AA nonstop service to PHX or DFW in addition to AS nonstop service to SEA. Most of the markets in the Pacific Northwest that have AS nonstop service to PDX (or that did prior to the cuts that AS made at PDX) also have DL nonstop service to SLC or UA nonstop service to DEN/SFO.

The connecting options that are offered to the Pacific Northwest on AA through PHX/DFW, DL through SLC, and UA through DEN/SFO are better connecting options for most of the passengers connecting to the Pacific Northwest from other parts of the contiguous U.S. than the connecting options that AS was offering through SEA (at least for the Pacific Northwest destinations that AA, DL, or UA serve nonstop from contiguous U.S. hubs other than PDX/SEA).

jbs2886 · Wed Apr 27, 2022 7:37 pm

32andBelow wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
I guess it he cancelling a popular 6 hour once a day flight from the state with your name on it seems worse than cancelling a different flight that they operate several times per day.

Please provide the stats to substantiate that ANC-HNL is a popular flight.

Also lol its worse because its the "Alaska" state name - didn't know AS can't touch those flights.

Alaska said it was because of staffing not because of economics. Maybe reducing flights off roads with other carriers will effect peoples travel plans less since other carriers can pick up the slack.

you don't cut your high-performing (or even decently-performing) routes. While staffing may be the reason AS needed to cut routes, the routes it cut will almost certainly be based on economics.

jplatts wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
I guess it he cancelling a popular 6 hour once a day flight from the state with your name on it seems worse than cancelling a different flight that they operate several times per day.

Please provide the stats to substantiate that ANC-HNL is a popular flight.

Also lol its worse because its the "Alaska" state name - didn't know AS can't touch those flights.

ANC-SEA-HNL is 1,333 miles longer (4,125 mi) than ANC-HNL nonstop (2,777 mi). It makes sense for ANC to have nonstop service to Hawaii with the significant backtracking that is required to connect to Alaska from Hawaii through the contiguous U.S.

The difference in travel time between an ANC-HNL nonstop flight and an ANC-SEA-HNL connection is more than 4 hours.

The situation is different with respect to the cuts that AS is making at PDX as some of the destinations that AS was serving nonstop from PDX have AA nonstop service to PHX or DFW in addition to AS nonstop service to SEA. Most of the markets in the Pacific Northwest that have AS nonstop service to PDX (or that did prior to the cuts that AS made at PDX) also have DL nonstop service to SLC or UA nonstop service to DEN/SFO.

The connecting options that are offered to the Pacific Northwest on AA through PHX/DFW, DL through SLC, and UA through DEN/SFO are better connecting options for most of the passengers connecting to the Pacific Northwest from other parts of the contiguous U.S. than the connecting options that AS was offering through SEA (at least for the Pacific Northwest destinations that AA, DL, or UA serve nonstop from contiguous U.S. hubs other than PDX/SEA).

Lol so any routing that is longer "makes sense" to have a nonstop. Almost every connection is going to have a longer routing. Come on.

usxguy · Wed Apr 27, 2022 7:47 pm

Even in the worst of times, Alaska at least ran the nonstops to Hawai'i on the weekend. I can understand gutting Maui or Kona from ANC - but HNL daily service is a bit of a hard pill to swallow because it gave many of us in Alaska (the state) a few more options rather than fighting for *affordable* seats down to Seattle then to Hawai'i. Seattle/Anchorage is already a tough market, and now pushing almost 200 folks MORE on the flights means fares are going to be higher if you want to go to Hawai'i.

NameOmitted · Wed Apr 27, 2022 7:54 pm

I still dream of an AS flight from HNL-ANC-HEL, but mostly because I want to pretend that there would be enough Finns who want to get to Hawaii to make my trip to the hub of AS partner Finnair direct from ANC possible.

If I were responsible for fleet planning I'd bk the airline in a week.

32andBelow · Wed Apr 27, 2022 8:19 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:

Please provide the stats to substantiate that ANC-HNL is a popular flight.

Also lol its worse because its the "Alaska" state name - didn't know AS can't touch those flights.

Alaska said it was because of staffing not because of economics. Maybe reducing flights off roads with other carriers will effect peoples travel plans less since other carriers can pick up the slack.

you don't cut your high-performing (or even decently-performing) routes. While staffing may be the reason AS needed to cut routes, the routes it cut will almost certainly be based on economics.

jplatts wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:

Please provide the stats to substantiate that ANC-HNL is a popular flight.

Also lol its worse because its the "Alaska" state name - didn't know AS can't touch those flights.

ANC-SEA-HNL is 1,333 miles longer (4,125 mi) than ANC-HNL nonstop (2,777 mi). It makes sense for ANC to have nonstop service to Hawaii with the significant backtracking that is required to connect to Alaska from Hawaii through the contiguous U.S.

The difference in travel time between an ANC-HNL nonstop flight and an ANC-SEA-HNL connection is more than 4 hours.

The situation is different with respect to the cuts that AS is making at PDX as some of the destinations that AS was serving nonstop from PDX have AA nonstop service to PHX or DFW in addition to AS nonstop service to SEA. Most of the markets in the Pacific Northwest that have AS nonstop service to PDX (or that did prior to the cuts that AS made at PDX) also have DL nonstop service to SLC or UA nonstop service to DEN/SFO.

The connecting options that are offered to the Pacific Northwest on AA through PHX/DFW, DL through SLC, and UA through DEN/SFO are better connecting options for most of the passengers connecting to the Pacific Northwest from other parts of the contiguous U.S. than the connecting options that AS was offering through SEA (at least for the Pacific Northwest destinations that AA, DL, or UA serve nonstop from contiguous U.S. hubs other than PDX/SEA).

Lol so any routing that is longer "makes sense" to have a nonstop. Almost every connection is going to have a longer routing. Come on.

Yes when you are cutting routes due to not people able to fly them then you need to take more than just direct economics into account you need to work on making it right to the people you already sold ticket to.

Prost · Wed Apr 27, 2022 8:38 pm

The MSA on the west coast that has the closest population to Anchorage is Salem, OR. Salem has about 433,000, Anchorage has about 400,000. Salem also doesn’t have HNL service.

I think with AS needing to thin the operation, ANC-HNL makes sense, as much as it sucks for Alaskans.

If it was the choice of flying a 4th SEA-HNL or one ANC-HNL, and the ANC-HNL wouldn’t perform as well as the SEA-HNL, I understand why it would be cut. You can route the ANC passengers via SEA, but lower 48 passengers wouldn’t go through ANC to get to HNL.

jplatts · Wed Apr 27, 2022 8:56 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
Lol so any routing that is longer "makes sense" to have a nonstop. Almost every connection is going to have a longer routing. Come on.

FAR-MSP-SEA and FAR-DEN-SEA are approximately 500 miles longer than FAR-SEA nonstop, but there is currently no nonstop service to FAR from SEA.

The difference in distance and travel time between ANC-HNL nonstop service and an ANC-SEA-HNL connection is much bigger than that of most of connections within the contiguous U.S. that involve significant backtracking (and some of the ones within the contiguous U.S. that involve significant backtracking on one airline have much better options on other airlines).

AlaskaA321NEO · Wed Apr 27, 2022 9:24 pm

Prost wrote:
The MSA on the west coast that has the closest population to Anchorage is Salem, OR. Salem has about 433,000, Anchorage has about 400,000. Salem also doesn’t have HNL service.

I think with AS needing to thin the operation, ANC-HNL makes sense, as much as it sucks for Alaskans.

If it was the choice of flying a 4th SEA-HNL or one ANC-HNL, and the ANC-HNL wouldn’t perform as well as the SEA-HNL, I understand why it would be cut. You can route the ANC passengers via SEA, but lower 48 passengers wouldn’t go through ANC to get to HNL.

This has to be one of the worst comparisons I’ve seen on A.net so far.

BoeingGuy · Wed Apr 27, 2022 9:34 pm

AlaskaA321NEO wrote:
Prost wrote:
The MSA on the west coast that has the closest population to Anchorage is Salem, OR. Salem has about 433,000, Anchorage has about 400,000. Salem also doesn’t have HNL service.

I think with AS needing to thin the operation, ANC-HNL makes sense, as much as it sucks for Alaskans.

If it was the choice of flying a 4th SEA-HNL or one ANC-HNL, and the ANC-HNL wouldn’t perform as well as the SEA-HNL, I understand why it would be cut. You can route the ANC passengers via SEA, but lower 48 passengers wouldn’t go through ANC to get to HNL.

This has to be one of the worst comparisons I’ve seen on A.net so far.

Agreed it’s not a good example. However, there was a recent chart on another web site that we aren’t allowed to say on A.net that showed the performance of HNL routes. ANC was shown as a poor performer. A lot of HNL routes performed poorly actually.

AlaskaA321NEO · Wed Apr 27, 2022 9:43 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
AlaskaA321NEO wrote:
Prost wrote:
The MSA on the west coast that has the closest population to Anchorage is Salem, OR. Salem has about 433,000, Anchorage has about 400,000. Salem also doesn’t have HNL service.

I think with AS needing to thin the operation, ANC-HNL makes sense, as much as it sucks for Alaskans.

If it was the choice of flying a 4th SEA-HNL or one ANC-HNL, and the ANC-HNL wouldn’t perform as well as the SEA-HNL, I understand why it would be cut. You can route the ANC passengers via SEA, but lower 48 passengers wouldn’t go through ANC to get to HNL.

I agree with that with that. If it was/is a poor performer then it should be cut or reduced to seasonal. I don’t think many Alaskans fly to Hawaii during the summer months. It was just that absurd comment they led me to say something.

This has to be one of the worst comparisons I’ve seen on A.net so far.

Agreed it’s not a good example. However, there was a recent chart on another web site that we aren’t allowed to say on A.net that showed the performance of HNL routes. ANC was shown as a poor performer. A lot of HNL routes performed poorly actually.

AlaskaA321NEO · Wed Apr 27, 2022 9:45 pm

I agree with that with that. If it was/is a poor performer then it should be cut or reduced to seasonal. I don’t think many Alaskans fly to Hawaii during the summer months. It was just that absurd comment they led me to say something.[/quote]

roadrunner165 · Wed Apr 27, 2022 10:16 pm

Alaska Airlines for marketing purposes has always set themselves apart from the competition by portraying themselves as Alaska's hometown airline. This is a bit of a mud in the face in that regard.

Alaska residents fly way more often than residents of other states, so lets not just compare populations (ANC vs Salem OR) and draw clueless conclusions.

Anecdotal, but the planes are always full when I'm on them to Hawaii. Likely with a lot of companion fares, but that's not the point. It was practically marketed by Alaska Airlines that way.

32andBelow · Wed Apr 27, 2022 10:30 pm

Prost wrote:
The MSA on the west coast that has the closest population to Anchorage is Salem, OR. Salem has about 433,000, Anchorage has about 400,000. Salem also doesn’t have HNL service.

I think with AS needing to thin the operation, ANC-HNL makes sense, as much as it sucks for Alaskans.

If it was the choice of flying a 4th SEA-HNL or one ANC-HNL, and the ANC-HNL wouldn’t perform as well as the SEA-HNL, I understand why it would be cut. You can route the ANC passengers via SEA, but lower 48 passengers wouldn’t go through ANC to get to HNL.

You need to realize that anchorage itself is a hub and people can come in from all the communities Alaska and ravn flies to and then connect to flights in anchorage

usxguy · Thu Apr 28, 2022 12:30 am

Prost wrote:
The MSA on the west coast that has the closest population to Anchorage is Salem, OR. Salem has about 433,000, Anchorage has about 400,000. Salem also doesn’t have HNL service.

I think with AS needing to thin the operation, ANC-HNL makes sense, as much as it sucks for Alaskans.

If it was the choice of flying a 4th SEA-HNL or one ANC-HNL, and the ANC-HNL wouldn’t perform as well as the SEA-HNL, I understand why it would be cut. You can route the ANC passengers via SEA, but lower 48 passengers wouldn’t go through ANC to get to HNL.

uh, what?

I don't connect via Salem to get to Hawai'i most of the time, I connect thru Anchorage.

And, fwiw, they axed the extra SEA-HNL flight.

Soo....

Midwestindy · Thu Apr 28, 2022 1:12 am

32andBelow wrote:
Prost wrote:
The MSA on the west coast that has the closest population to Anchorage is Salem, OR. Salem has about 433,000, Anchorage has about 400,000. Salem also doesn’t have HNL service.

I think with AS needing to thin the operation, ANC-HNL makes sense, as much as it sucks for Alaskans.

If it was the choice of flying a 4th SEA-HNL or one ANC-HNL, and the ANC-HNL wouldn’t perform as well as the SEA-HNL, I understand why it would be cut. You can route the ANC passengers via SEA, but lower 48 passengers wouldn’t go through ANC to get to HNL.

You need to realize that anchorage itself is a hub and people can come in from all the communities Alaska and ravn flies to and then connect to flights in anchorage

To be clear, very little demand for Hawaii service exists outside of ANC.

ANC-Hawaii was close to 250 PDEW for February for example, while the next highest Alaskan market was FAI-Hawaii at barely 35 (equivalent in PDEW to SBP, ORF, BFL-Hawaii).
https://www.hawaiitourismauthority.org/ ... tatistics/

If you look at the connection data, FAI makes up over half of XYZ-ANC-HNL connections, and an even higher % for routes like OGG & KOA.

jbs2886 · Thu Apr 28, 2022 1:29 am

Midwestindy wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Prost wrote:
The MSA on the west coast that has the closest population to Anchorage is Salem, OR. Salem has about 433,000, Anchorage has about 400,000. Salem also doesn’t have HNL service.

I think with AS needing to thin the operation, ANC-HNL makes sense, as much as it sucks for Alaskans.

If it was the choice of flying a 4th SEA-HNL or one ANC-HNL, and the ANC-HNL wouldn’t perform as well as the SEA-HNL, I understand why it would be cut. You can route the ANC passengers via SEA, but lower 48 passengers wouldn’t go through ANC to get to HNL.

You need to realize that anchorage itself is a hub and people can come in from all the communities Alaska and ravn flies to and then connect to flights in anchorage

To be clear, very little demand for Hawaii service exists outside of ANC.

ANC-Hawaii was close to 250 PDEW for February for example, while the next highest Alaskan market was FAI-Hawaii at barely 35 (equivalent in PDEW to SBP, ORF, BFL-Hawaii).
https://www.hawaiitourismauthority.org/ ... tatistics/

If you look at the connection data, FAI makes up over half of XYZ-ANC-HNL connections, and an even higher % for routes like OGG & KOA.

Forgot about these stats, thanks! And look at it for the months ANC-HNL is cut, Alaska-Hawaii in total doesn’t even fill up a daily 737 most months. Now add in many of those passengers are companion fares, etc. https://www.hawaiitourismauthority.org/ ... state.xlsx

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