So now you're trying to look at stats from during covid? When Hawaii was on lockdown. Sure, okay. I'm out.

roadrunner165 wrote:

So now you're trying to look at stats from during covid? When Hawaii was on lockdown. Sure, okay. I'm out.

Bye! Also Hawaii wasn’t in lockdown in summer/fall 2021. But fine, exact same situation in 2019: https://www.hawaiitourismauthority.org/ ... state.xlsx

You have yet to bring actual facts - nor could you. So its good you are exiting the conversation.

I know it's upsetting to many folks that AK/HI is canceled for a long time...but isn't it come back in the Fall/Winter season?

jbs2886 wrote:

roadrunner165 wrote:

So now you're trying to look at stats from during covid? When Hawaii was on lockdown. Sure, okay. I'm out.

Bye! Also Hawaii wasn’t in lockdown in summer/fall 2021. But fine, exact same situation in 2019: https://www.hawaiitourismauthority.org/ ... state.xlsx

You have yet to bring actual facts - nor could you. So its good you are exiting the conversation.

Summer/Fall 2021 was largely busier than Summer/Fall 2019 from the US-Hawaii FWIW. It was actually the highest its ever been....

Not sure the COVID argument works in this case



https://www.airlines.org/dataset/impact ... -updates/#

Please don't flame me on this question too badly...but why are people so much against connecting through SEA? In my humbled opinion, connecting through SFO and LAX can be much worse.

wedgetail737 wrote:

Please don't flame me on this question too badly...but why are people so much against connecting through SEA? In my humbled opinion, connecting through SFO and LAX can be much worse.

Losing a non-stop sucks, and the mainland is out of the way. So it does add a decent amount of time to the trip. It’s not really about SEA (although there is some element of frustration (and jealousy?) that AS is just pushing more through SEA with these cuts) than it is connections in general.

That being said, the sense of entitlement to the route is shocking, coupled with the complete lack of facts to back up claims that it’s an important and necessary route.

The only facts I'd be interested in seeing would be from Alaska Airlines. Also, as we all know loads are only part of the equation, you also have to look at yields.

If you go back and look at my first post, I said the move was short sighed. And I stand by that statement.

wedgetail737 wrote:

Please don't flame me on this question too badly...but why are people so much against connecting through SEA? In my humbled opinion, connecting through SFO and LAX can be much worse.

Because the Seattle - Hawaii flights are already full, add in super full Alaska (anywhere) -> Seattle are also pricing high. So instead of getting decent fares (like $300 one way), everything is now $600 to $800 one way. Alaska also axed a SEA/HNL flight and dismantled Portland - Hawaii, compressing travel or making many of us book another airline out of Seattle to Hawaii.

I would agree with that, emotions do run deep on the issue. I cannot reiterate enough how hard Alaska has pushed their Anchorage to Hawaii routes over the last decade. And yes, the marketing worked. Alaskans love going to Hawaii. So of course shutting it down cold turkey is gonna garner a negative response. A reduction to 2x or 3x weekly would have kept us wolves at bay.

Also true, if it takes 25 hours to get from Nome to Honolulu and I have to overnight in Anchorage or Seattle, I might as well look and see what else is being offered. Im a Gold75k so I could do a Delta match and get their Am-Ex while I'm at it. Alaska's already devalued reward tickets so loyalty isn't worth so much these days. Use to be they promoted minimum 5k one way tickets on intra-alaska flights, although the typical I paid between 7.5k and 12k. Now through the fall if I I wanna run to Home Depot for something overnight in Anchorage, it's a minimum of 15k miles each way. No thanks.

Things use to be North of Expected, lately its seeming to be more and more South of Expected. =)

32andBelow wrote:

Also why would it be bad to have Seattle people connect in Alaska to go to Hawaii. That’s what they are asking Alaskans to do.

A much larger O/D + FF base to appease and direct competition on non-stop Hawaii routes to fight, for a start…

Oh boy, the same old drab argument that Alaska is too small and insignificant overall. An argument that Alaska Airlines themselves wouldn’t even make…

usxguy wrote:

wedgetail737 wrote:

Please don't flame me on this question too badly...but why are people so much against connecting through SEA? In my humbled opinion, connecting through SFO and LAX can be much worse.

Because the Seattle - Hawaii flights are already full, add in super full Alaska (anywhere) -> Seattle are also pricing high. So instead of getting decent fares (like $300 one way), everything is now $600 to $800 one way. Alaska also axed a SEA/HNL flight and dismantled Portland - Hawaii, compressing travel or making many of us book another airline out of Seattle to Hawaii.

AS flies to all four islands they serve from PDX, are you talking about during peak COVID? Summer seasonal cuts to neighbor islands? Or do you just think the connecting opportunities are poorer than they used to be? I'd hardly call PDX- Hawaii dismantled.

32andBelow wrote:

Also why would it be bad to have Seattle people connect in Alaska to go to Hawaii. That’s what they are asking Alaskans to do.

Because it's a much larger market, a 350 flight per day hub, has a major competitor, and it already relatively easily supports 8-10 island flights on Alaska metal per day.

roadrunner165 wrote:

Oh boy, the same old drab argument that Alaska is too small and insignificant overall. An argument that Alaska Airlines themselves wouldn’t even make…

Literally no one made that argument. But if you can’t realize SEA is AS’s primary market and it’s far larger with business and leisure travel that’s on you.

32andBelow wrote:

Also why would it be bad to have Seattle people connect in Alaska to go to Hawaii. That’s what they are asking Alaskans to do.

Lol. Because demand is far larger from SEA. Just stop with this melodrama. It’s trolling at this point.

WkndWanderer wrote:

usxguy wrote:

wedgetail737 wrote:

Please don't flame me on this question too badly...but why are people so much against connecting through SEA? In my humbled opinion, connecting through SFO and LAX can be much worse.

Because the Seattle - Hawaii flights are already full, add in super full Alaska (anywhere) -> Seattle are also pricing high. So instead of getting decent fares (like $300 one way), everything is now $600 to $800 one way. Alaska also axed a SEA/HNL flight and dismantled Portland - Hawaii, compressing travel or making many of us book another airline out of Seattle to Hawaii.

AS flies to all four islands they serve from PDX, are you talking about during peak COVID? Summer seasonal cuts to neighbor islands? Or do you just think the connecting opportunities are poorer than they used to be? I'd hardly call PDX- Hawaii dismantled.

Just a quick copy and paste from another site… “AS cut all the flights from PDX to KOA/LIH as of 1 June through the end of the summer. Looks like only 1 flight a day to HNL/OGG will be operated from PDX for June/July/August/most of September as of now.“ Perhaps that’s what usxguy is referring to.

roadrunner165 wrote:

WkndWanderer wrote:

usxguy wrote:

Because the Seattle - Hawaii flights are already full, add in super full Alaska (anywhere) -> Seattle are also pricing high. So instead of getting decent fares (like $300 one way), everything is now $600 to $800 one way. Alaska also axed a SEA/HNL flight and dismantled Portland - Hawaii, compressing travel or making many of us book another airline out of Seattle to Hawaii.

AS flies to all four islands they serve from PDX, are you talking about during peak COVID? Summer seasonal cuts to neighbor islands? Or do you just think the connecting opportunities are poorer than they used to be? I'd hardly call PDX- Hawaii dismantled.

Just a quick copy and paste from another site… “AS cut all the flights from PDX to KOA/LIH as of 1 June through the end of the summer. Looks like only 1 flight a day to HNL/OGG will be operated from PDX for June/July/August/most of September as of now.“ Perhaps that’s what usxguy is referring to.

I'm not sure AS has ever run daily PDX-LIH during summer? The summer has the most rainy days per month for Kauai and those are far and away the nicest months in the PNW.

Yeah - honestly I’m not too sure. Recalled reading it on another site a day or two ago. Thought I would share.

I don’t think it’s out of bounds and certainly not entitlement to take note. Alaska cut direct routes from Anchorage and then seems to have cut out the lesser-evil alternatives.

Midwestindy wrote:

jbs2886 wrote:

roadrunner165 wrote:

So now you're trying to look at stats from during covid? When Hawaii was on lockdown. Sure, okay. I'm out.

Bye! Also Hawaii wasn’t in lockdown in summer/fall 2021. But fine, exact same situation in 2019: https://www.hawaiitourismauthority.org/ ... state.xlsx

You have yet to bring actual facts - nor could you. So its good you are exiting the conversation.

Summer/Fall 2021 was largely busier than Summer/Fall 2019 from the US-Hawaii FWIW. It was actually the highest its ever been....

Not sure the COVID argument works in this case



https://www.airlines.org/dataset/impact ... -updates/#

Could it have been because people had nowhere else to go? Crazy capacity was added with WB aircraft since there was nowhere else to deploy them.

Midwestindy wrote:

jbs2886 wrote:

roadrunner165 wrote:

So now you're trying to look at stats from during covid? When Hawaii was on lockdown. Sure, okay. I'm out.

Bye! Also Hawaii wasn’t in lockdown in summer/fall 2021. But fine, exact same situation in 2019: https://www.hawaiitourismauthority.org/ ... state.xlsx

You have yet to bring actual facts - nor could you. So its good you are exiting the conversation.

Summer/Fall 2021 was largely busier than Summer/Fall 2019 from the US-Hawaii FWIW. It was actually the highest its ever been....

Not sure the COVID argument works in this case

For very obvious reasons, Alaska-Hawaii peaks in winter, when AS also seasonally serves Maui and Kona.

Prost wrote:

The MSA on the west coast that has the closest population to Anchorage is Salem, OR. Salem has about 433,000, Anchorage has about 400,000. Salem also doesn’t have HNL service.

Lol. Salem (SLE) doesn't have any air service at all.

I know that wasn't your point, but still...

Plus SLE is close to a significant hub airport. ANC is a hub with nothing else around.

Wingtips56 wrote:

Plus SLE is close to a significant hub airport. ANC is a hub with nothing else around.

ANC is important for regional traffic, and it's important for the short summer tourist season, but ANC isn't a 'big' airport: it ranks #57 for passenger numbers for the 12 months ending 12/2021 according to BTS TranStats.

Do a.netters blather on and on about how important Milwaukee is, and how is just deserves a n/s flight to Hawaii?

(Yep, MKE ranks #55)

I guess outsiders just don't understand Alaska then. Not exactly shocking. Folks should stop comparing Anchorage and Alaska to areas of the lower 48. The comparisons will never work.

How long has AS been flying ANC-HNL?

Since 2007, I believe.

And its not just a.netters blathering on an on apparently. When I got through the elite line last night and got the October Hawaii trip straightened out, I casually asked the customer service agent on the phone how the cut was being received and she said they've been catching a fair amount of flack over it from irate passengers. Again, we've gotten off in the weeds on this. My initial post clearly said I felt the decision was short sighted and I don't think I'll be changing my mind based on random a.netters telling me some fun fact about Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

MAX #21 N975AK has delivered. It has gone to Oakland for post delivery work. 975 is the 5th white tail delivered to Alaska.

973 repositioned to OKC today for wifi. 974 entered revenue service today. 935 returned from OKC yesterday and is back in revenue service today.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N97 ... /KPAE/KOAK

roadrunner165 wrote:

Since 2007, I believe.

And its not just a.netters blathering on an on apparently. When I got through the elite line last night and got the October Hawaii trip straightened out, I casually asked the customer service agent on the phone how the cut was being received and she said they've been catching a fair amount of flack over it from irate passengers. Again, we've gotten off in the weeds on this. My initial post clearly said I felt the decision was short sighted and I don't think I'll be changing my mind based on random a.netters telling me some fun fact about Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

Look, no one is happy about ANCHNL being cut for now, but what would you rather see - AS offer an ANCHNL nonstop they can't always reliably operate due to staffing issues, or cut it for now and reinstate down the line when staffing is better? Keep in mind that schedule changes cut both ways, and if there's a point where a suspended route can be profitably and reliably reinstated, AS will do that.

WkndWanderer wrote:

usxguy wrote:

wedgetail737 wrote:

Please don't flame me on this question too badly...but why are people so much against connecting through SEA? In my humbled opinion, connecting through SFO and LAX can be much worse.

Because the Seattle - Hawaii flights are already full, add in super full Alaska (anywhere) -> Seattle are also pricing high. So instead of getting decent fares (like $300 one way), everything is now $600 to $800 one way. Alaska also axed a SEA/HNL flight and dismantled Portland - Hawaii, compressing travel or making many of us book another airline out of Seattle to Hawaii.

AS flies to all four islands they serve from PDX, are you talking about during peak COVID? Summer seasonal cuts to neighbor islands? Or do you just think the connecting opportunities are poorer than they used to be? I'd hardly call PDX- Hawaii dismantled.

They just axed KOA & LIH, with reductions to HNL & OGG.

Summer season is HIGH season in the isles....

I will put my faith in those making the decisions to cut service in certain markets. They obviously know more than we do on here, and there has to be a reason. I do not see this as anything more than a need to reduce for now, till they can offer better performance.

If Alaska had just continued down the path they were, we would be seeing over 75 cancellations a day, if not more. Shrink it to a level the airline can consistently provide manageable schedules. The sky isn't falling.

You know there's a lot of false premises being tossed out into the ether of this thread. The decision is not mutually exclusive to one option or the other. Alaska is cutting mainline service to Nome and other communities in the state, freeing up jets for other routes. And you know what, I don't mind. It makes sense to run the e-jets for passengers and send in a full freighter with the groceries. But on the flip side AS is running ANC-DEN daily all summer, but can't muster up 2x weekly to Honolulu - a route they spent the past decade building up. I'm pragmatic, so they have to cut back, fine. But at least give folks a pretty good chance that at least one-way could be direct. The route cut got state wide media coverage, so its a bit of a big deal despite what people here say. I agree with 32andBelow, the reason is they were the only carrier on the route. Like most Alaskans, we're not dumb and not easily susceptible to being gas lighted. (Unless of course, you live in Wasilla. God help those people.)

usxguy wrote:

WkndWanderer wrote:

usxguy wrote:

Because the Seattle - Hawaii flights are already full, add in super full Alaska (anywhere) -> Seattle are also pricing high. So instead of getting decent fares (like $300 one way), everything is now $600 to $800 one way. Alaska also axed a SEA/HNL flight and dismantled Portland - Hawaii, compressing travel or making many of us book another airline out of Seattle to Hawaii.

AS flies to all four islands they serve from PDX, are you talking about during peak COVID? Summer seasonal cuts to neighbor islands? Or do you just think the connecting opportunities are poorer than they used to be? I'd hardly call PDX- Hawaii dismantled.

They just axed KOA & LIH, with reductions to HNL & OGG.

Summer season is HIGH season in the isles....

For northern climates, winter and spring are high season to Hawaii. California and southern climates peak during summer. You also need to look at destination traffic to Alaska: there is a sharp, sharp peak in the summer of in bound tourism and that part of the network would generate higher yields than a small amount of originating traffic going to Hawaii.

Just in case the airliners.net drama committees on here that are so concerned about a particular airlines routes cuts, I think it needs to be noted F U E L costs have gone through the roof for the airlines.

Airlines are about Y I E L D, and making a return upon investment and profit upon a particular flight. The remoteness of both the state of Hawaii and Alaska create added pressures for airlines in regard to an items price, logistics to supply an item, and difficulties providing affordable labor for that item.

I’m sure if Alaska Airlines were able to price and supply the product of “air travel to Hawaii - nonstop - from Alaska” during these high INFLATIONARY times and still make adequate profit they would continue to do so. Thus until the world economy returns to “somewhat,” normal; I guess this is what it is going to be for now.

Many younger people as well as older none centric people might want to read up on the fuel price shocks of the 1970s, for a little reality check. Think Vega, Gremlin, Corolla, and Pacer. It was ugly. We as a nation are in ugly again. I’m sure the moment Alaskan Airlines can effectively reintroduce popular routes like these they will immediately do so. After all Hawaii is it’s namesake, only it’s spelled Alaska!

Mr Roarke and “the plane, the plane” smiles and Klima regards to everyone.

usxguy wrote:

WkndWanderer wrote:

usxguy wrote:

Because the Seattle - Hawaii flights are already full, add in super full Alaska (anywhere) -> Seattle are also pricing high. So instead of getting decent fares (like $300 one way), everything is now $600 to $800 one way. Alaska also axed a SEA/HNL flight and dismantled Portland - Hawaii, compressing travel or making many of us book another airline out of Seattle to Hawaii.

AS flies to all four islands they serve from PDX, are you talking about during peak COVID? Summer seasonal cuts to neighbor islands? Or do you just think the connecting opportunities are poorer than they used to be? I'd hardly call PDX- Hawaii dismantled.

They just axed KOA & LIH, with reductions to HNL & OGG.

Summer season is HIGH season in the isles....

No it’s not. Not at all. The Hawaii stats posted above clearly show summer is the slowest in passengers to Hawaii.

Perhaps if another carrier, HA or even DL, adds service HNL-ANC we'll have a clue as to how important -- and well-traveled -- a route it is. If nobody else is interested, that to me would be telling.

I too would agree that winter is the peak-travel period for this route and I'm pretty sure, unless conditions worsen, the flight will be operating at its full winter schedule come November/December.

bb

wedgetail737 wrote:

jbs2886 wrote:

Cardude2 wrote:

and its looking like they will be replaced with e175's and converted to cargo

Source for “it’s looking”? Or are you speculating. I haven’t seen any indication AS intends to convert its remaining 737-700s.

Yes...no source...it's just my humbled opinion and speculation. Their -700's are getting pretty old and some of the markets like BRW or OTZ are too small of their -900's or MAX 9's. Also, I think the E-175's are too small for these markets. But, yes, all speculation.

The age of the 700’s and their small cargo volume vs 800’s is what’s doomed that plan. AS has made it clear internally that the next cargo conversions will come from the 800 fleet. Based on what they’ve said on the employee website the number of conversions and time frame is still being sorted out. It appears the 700 along with the original 900’s are on the clock.

AS40 diverted to Memphis this morning, presumably over LIT and JAN due to runway length for a 739ER. It got down in a hurry. Anyone have information as to what happened? This is also the second time recently that Alaska has diverted to MEM.

TheZ wrote:

AS40 diverted to Memphis this morning, presumably over LIT and JAN due to runway length for a 739ER. It got down in a hurry. Anyone have information as to what happened? This is also the second time recently that Alaska has diverted to MEM.

It looks like it was on the ground for less than 1.5 hours and then back on its way.

TheZ wrote:

AS40 diverted to Memphis this morning, presumably over LIT and JAN due to runway length for a 739ER. It got down in a hurry. Anyone have information as to what happened? This is also the second time recently that Alaska has diverted to MEM.

5MEM/FLIGHT DIVERTED TO MEM DUE GUEST MEDICAL *1220*FCF8HL

As per Expert Flyer

Midwestindy wrote:

Summer/Fall 2021 was largely busier than Summer/Fall 2019 from the US-Hawaii FWIW. It was actually the highest its ever been....

Not sure the COVID argument works in this case

Maui was certainly busier than I’ve ever seen it in June 2021 when I went. I think Covid caused it to be so busy since a lot of the international destinations weren’t available for people to (easily) get to.

jbs2886 wrote:

It’s not really about SEA (although there is some element of frustration (and jealousy?) that AS is just pushing more through SEA with these cuts) than it is connections in general.

Connecting in Seattle in general really sucks these days. It used to be such a pleasant experience before 2016/17.

Could someone explain to me why people think SEA is such a bad place to connect? And I don't ask the question in a snarky way. I travel through SEA frequently and have had no problems navigating throughout the airport. I would connect through SEA over SFO and LAX.

Seattle is a confusing airport for a lot of people. It’s my home airport, and I get stopped for directions far more than any other airport I go to.

USAirKid wrote:

N5301D wrote:

32andBelow wrote:

Get all those airbus pilots into the sim ASAP

The challenge currently is training throughput. You can only "create widgets" so quickly.

Especially if you’re not Delta.

But yeah, AS has had some training bottleneck issues, specifically with classes getting delayed due to covid outbreaks.

Neighbor is a DL pilot, a few weeks back a bunch of pilots went to ATL for recurrent training and there were no teachers in the school house. All were called out on the line to cover the shortage.

Prost wrote:

Seattle is a confusing airport for a lot of people. It’s my home airport, and I get stopped for directions far more than any other airport I go to.

Weird. It’s your standard finger terminals with a two satellites. There are a few people movers, but you can completely skip those unless you’re needing to access a satellite. Plus it’s all within the same sterile area. Is it people don’t like the letter in front of the gate number? I can see landslide things getting a little more confusing, such as finding the right bus, the Lyft pickup area, or the train station, but that doesn’t affect connections. I can’t go back and be a newcomer, but I’m curious what people find confusing about it.

The dining seems like standard airport fare, the locations on the ends of the concourses are eh, but they’re much better the closer you get to the center. It’s not JFK T5 fancy, but then again it isn’t priced there. (Don’t get me started about finding something affordable at LAX, I once walked several terminals over to the Bradley terminal to get something that wasn’t overpriced.)