Jshank83 wrote:

trexel94 wrote:

First jetway and ground crew fit test
The rest of the photos are here: https://www.facebook.com/media/set?vani ... 4100807479

Do we think that means that is AS' gate? or its just a random gate?

trexel94 wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

trexel94 wrote:

In what world is that terrible? Its been a slow start for sure but is it really that bad? B6 fares have been fairly low for many cities (from DEN its under $120 for some flights) recently and its MCI loads/marketshare has been steadily increasing. Market share for B6 at MCI for June was at 1.6 which is surpassing F9 and G4, and was 1.4 for May. Enough with the sky-is-falling rhetoric. B6 will be fine

BTW, NK is launching PHX starting Nov 7th. No official press release so I don't know the frequency but the flights are for sale.

You used the word terrible not me. But ask anyone in the industry, $69 fare for a full service carrier with 7 days til departure is incredibly low (Even DL's fares are arguably low). Look at the STL/OMA/OKC-LGA flight prices, which are similar stage length (each are $200+)

But if you want to say a 1:1ish comparison, look at the MKE-JFK pricing vs. MCI-JFK (both started at the same time)

MKE-JFK is pricing sizably higher than MCI-JFK and it is 300mi shorter.

Funny enough, didn't someone here say earlier that B6 was pleased with the performance? Do you feel B6 will pull the plug? Any idea on how AS and NK performed when they first started?
MCI-NYC has far more competition than MKE or even most cities of its size. We have AA, B6, DL, UA & WN. It also doesn't help that UA upgraded EWR to mainline which is somewhat rare for most midwest cities. As far as fares go, this is anecdotal as $69 fares do appear but are certainly not the average. I believe in the long run, B6 will be fine at MCI. The mild panic on this forum isn't justified.

evank516 wrote:

trexel94 wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

You used the word terrible not me. But ask anyone in the industry, $69 fare for a full service carrier with 7 days til departure is incredibly low (Even DL's fares are arguably low). Look at the STL/OMA/OKC-LGA flight prices, which are similar stage length (each are $200+)

But if you want to say a 1:1ish comparison, look at the MKE-JFK pricing vs. MCI-JFK (both started at the same time)

MKE-JFK is pricing sizably higher than MCI-JFK and it is 300mi shorter.

Funny enough, didn't someone here say earlier that B6 was pleased with the performance? Do you feel B6 will pull the plug? Any idea on how AS and NK performed when they first started?
MCI-NYC has far more competition than MKE or even most cities of its size. We have AA, B6, DL, UA & WN. It also doesn't help that UA upgraded EWR to mainline which is somewhat rare for most midwest cities. As far as fares go, this is anecdotal as $69 fares do appear but are certainly not the average. I believe in the long run, B6 will be fine at MCI. The mild panic on this forum isn't justified.

UA likely upgauged it’s EWR flights to mainline due to increased competition. The fact that DL is still flying E-Jets to LGA is baffling. This is a prime A220 route once they have enough in the fleet. It’s up against 4 competitors now to NYC and it’s only move was adding a single daily JFK flight on a CR9.

KCaviator wrote:

evank516 wrote:

trexel94 wrote:

Funny enough, didn't someone here say earlier that B6 was pleased with the performance? Do you feel B6 will pull the plug? Any idea on how AS and NK performed when they first started?
MCI-NYC has far more competition than MKE or even most cities of its size. We have AA, B6, DL, UA & WN. It also doesn't help that UA upgraded EWR to mainline which is somewhat rare for most midwest cities. As far as fares go, this is anecdotal as $69 fares do appear but are certainly not the average. I believe in the long run, B6 will be fine at MCI. The mild panic on this forum isn't justified.

UA likely upgauged it’s EWR flights to mainline due to increased competition. The fact that DL is still flying E-Jets to LGA is baffling. This is a prime A220 route once they have enough in the fleet. It’s up against 4 competitors now to NYC and it’s only move was adding a single daily JFK flight on a CR9.

Good grief, give it a break already. I fly this route 2x weekly and it's rarely full. It does not need to be upgauged.

evank516 wrote:

trexel94 wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

You used the word terrible not me. But ask anyone in the industry, $69 fare for a full service carrier with 7 days til departure is incredibly low (Even DL's fares are arguably low). Look at the STL/OMA/OKC-LGA flight prices, which are similar stage length (each are $200+)

But if you want to say a 1:1ish comparison, look at the MKE-JFK pricing vs. MCI-JFK (both started at the same time)

MKE-JFK is pricing sizably higher than MCI-JFK and it is 300mi shorter.

Funny enough, didn't someone here say earlier that B6 was pleased with the performance? Do you feel B6 will pull the plug? Any idea on how AS and NK performed when they first started?
MCI-NYC has far more competition than MKE or even most cities of its size. We have AA, B6, DL, UA & WN. It also doesn't help that UA upgraded EWR to mainline which is somewhat rare for most midwest cities. As far as fares go, this is anecdotal as $69 fares do appear but are certainly not the average. I believe in the long run, B6 will be fine at MCI. The mild panic on this forum isn't justified.

UA likely upgauged it’s EWR flights to mainline due to increased competition. The fact that DL is still flying E-Jets to LGA is baffling. This is a prime A220 route once they have enough in the fleet. It’s up against 4 competitors now to NYC and it’s only move was adding a single daily JFK flight on a CR9.

evank516 wrote:

KCaviator wrote:

evank516 wrote:

UA likely upgauged it’s EWR flights to mainline due to increased competition. The fact that DL is still flying E-Jets to LGA is baffling. This is a prime A220 route once they have enough in the fleet. It’s up against 4 competitors now to NYC and it’s only move was adding a single daily JFK flight on a CR9.

Good grief, give it a break already. I fly this route 2x weekly and it's rarely full. It does not need to be upgauged.

Meanwhile WN’s flights are always full…

I noticed in may that on the Southwest end of Terminal B at the far end there’s a whole security entrance for TSA PreCheck. Anyone know if there’s one down on the Delta end as well?

KCaviator wrote:

evank516 wrote:

KCaviator wrote:

Good grief, give it a break already. I fly this route 2x weekly and it's rarely full. It does not need to be upgauged.

Meanwhile WN’s flights are always full…

Try again bud, the one coming back this afternoon has 50+ open seats.

jplatts wrote:

Here were the 2019 PDEW's of the top contiguous U.S. markets traveled to from MCI that don't currently have WN nonstop service out of MCI:
MCI-BOS/MHT/PVD - 274 (WN previously served BOS/MHT/PVD nonstop from MCI)
MCI-MSP - 235 (WN previously served MSP nonstop from MCI)
MCI-DTW - 201
MCI-PHL - 188
MCI-RDU - 145 (WN MCI-RDU nonstop service scheduled to resume on a Saturday-only basis from 11/12/2022 through 12/31/2022)
MCI-SLC - 140 (WN previously served SLC nonstop from MCI)
MCI-SAT - 131 (WN MCI-SAT nonstop service scheduled to resume on a Sunday-only basis from 9/11/2022 through 10/30/2022)
MCI-CLT - 114
MCI-IND - 112 (WN previously served IND nonstop from MCI)
MCI-MKE - 95 (WN previously served MKE nonstop from MCI)
MCI-CLE/CAK - 85
MCI-SMF - 84 (WN previously served SMF nonstop from MCI)
MCI-ABQ - 69 (WN previously served ABQ nonstop from MCI)
MCI-CVG - 69
MCI-PIT - 68
MCI-CMH - 65
MCI-JAX - 62
MCI-ORF/PHF - 46
MCI-BDL - 43
MCI-VPS - 41
MCI-RIC - 41

Any possibility of WN adding or resuming nonstop service out of MCI to the markets listed above once WN has more pilots and more planes? If so, which of the routes above are most likely to see WN nonstop service added or resumed out of MCI?

jplatts wrote:

Any possibility of WN adding or resuming nonstop service out of MCI to the markets listed above once WN has more pilots and more planes? If so, which of the routes above are most likely to see WN nonstop service added or resumed out of MCI?

rove312 wrote:

When did WN fly MCI-SMF non-stop? It's a route I took often before leaving the MCI area in 2017; I've generally monitored route changes and haven't seen that.

MCIsundevil wrote:

jplatts wrote:

Any possibility of WN adding or resuming nonstop service out of MCI to the markets listed above once WN has more pilots and more planes? If so, which of the routes above are most likely to see WN nonstop service added or resumed out of MCI?

WNs schedule posted goes just past the opening of the new terminal in early March. I would guess they want to work out kinks in March (considering spring break volume too) so I would postulate if any routes are to be added, that would be April or May at the earliest. There was an article maybe two years ago (KCBJ?) that quoted WN’s Cisneros saying essentially they could connect more now but don’t due the poor connecting passenger experience. I would expect MCI goes from zero to hero on that front with the new terminal with connecting experience on par or better than other focus cities.

pmanni1 wrote:

MCIsundevil wrote:

jplatts wrote:

Any possibility of WN adding or resuming nonstop service out of MCI to the markets listed above once WN has more pilots and more planes? If so, which of the routes above are most likely to see WN nonstop service added or resumed out of MCI?

WNs schedule posted goes just past the opening of the new terminal in early March. I would guess they want to work out kinks in March (considering spring break volume too) so I would postulate if any routes are to be added, that would be April or May at the earliest. There was an article maybe two years ago (KCBJ?) that quoted WN’s Cisneros saying essentially they could connect more now but don’t due the poor connecting passenger experience. I would expect MCI goes from zero to hero on that front with the new terminal with connecting experience on par or better than other focus cities.

I can't find any info as to how many gates WN will have out of the 39 in the new terminal. Would be interesting to know. MCI is surrounded by DEN,STL & DAL focus cities so I'm not sure how much of a focus city MCI could ever be.

trexel94 wrote:

pmanni1 wrote:

MCIsundevil wrote:

WNs schedule posted goes just past the opening of the new terminal in early March. I would guess they want to work out kinks in March (considering spring break volume too) so I would postulate if any routes are to be added, that would be April or May at the earliest. There was an article maybe two years ago (KCBJ?) that quoted WN’s Cisneros saying essentially they could connect more now but don’t due the poor connecting passenger experience. I would expect MCI goes from zero to hero on that front with the new terminal with connecting experience on par or better than other focus cities.

I can't find any info as to how many gates WN will have out of the 39 in the new terminal. Would be interesting to know. MCI is surrounded by DEN,STL & DAL focus cities so I'm not sure how much of a focus city MCI could ever be.

They’ll have 10 gates, up from the current 8. Not enough for a huge focus operation but it’s a clear indication they want to expand. Even purely o/d could yield more cities.

Jshank83 wrote:

trexel94 wrote:

pmanni1 wrote:

I can't find any info as to how many gates WN will have out of the 39 in the new terminal. Would be interesting to know. MCI is surrounded by DEN,STL & DAL focus cities so I'm not sure how much of a focus city MCI could ever be.

They’ll have 10 gates, up from the current 8. Not enough for a huge focus operation but it’s a clear indication they want to expand. Even purely o/d could yield more cities.

I think they have 9 now. At least that is what they list.

jplatts wrote:

trexel94 wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

I think they have 9 now. At least that is what they list.

Interesting, another list I saw recently listed 8. In anycase, it's still an increase just not enough for a large expansion. DL and AA will have 6 gates each, UA will have 5, NK will apparently have 2 and the rest will have 1 gate each. How many flights can a gate receive on average?

WN can probably operate 113 daily departures out of 9 gates at MCI as WN was operating an average of 12.6 departures per gate per day (and an equivalent number of arrivals per gate per day out of those same gates) at LAX 5 years ago when Terminal 1 was being renovated at LAX.

evank516 wrote:

KCaviator wrote:

evank516 wrote:

Meanwhile WN’s flights are always full…

Try again bud, the one coming back this afternoon has 50+ open seats.

Um, cool? One flight out of two daily on one day? I mean, it’s not like I didn’t fly the route on WN 3-4 times per year up until a certain point.

QXorVX wrote:

trexel94 wrote:

pmanni1 wrote:

They’ll have 10 gates, up from the current 8. Not enough for a huge focus operation but it’s a clear indication they want to expand. Even purely o/d could yield more cities.

Based on a recent gate diagram looks like there will be a couple common use gates down at the same end of Concourse B with Southwest, so some wiggle room for growth, delays, etc.

MCIsundevil wrote:

QXorVX wrote:

trexel94 wrote:

Based on a recent gate diagram looks like there will be a couple common use gates down at the same end of Concourse B with Southwest, so some wiggle room for growth, delays, etc.

My understanding in the specification, at least originally, is that all gates are flexible use like SNA where any carrier could use any open gate if needed even though each seems to have a preferred area. SNA handles nearly as many pax as MCI but just 22 gates. It should provide quite a bit of flexibility and wiggle room, although I am not sure how that works contractually (perhaps it means an airline is guaranteed x number of gates at any one time but not any specific gate?). I remember an article that said the lower level of the current terminals had concrete walls dividing sections so that flexing gates was problematic.

evank516 wrote:

KCaviator wrote:

evank516 wrote:

Meanwhile WN’s flights are always full…

Try again bud, the one coming back this afternoon has 50+ open seats.

Um, cool? One flight out of two daily on one day? I mean, it’s not like I didn’t fly the route on WN 3-4 times per year up until a certain point.

KCaviator wrote:

evank516 wrote:

KCaviator wrote:

Try again bud, the one coming back this afternoon has 50+ open seats.

Um, cool? One flight out of two daily on one day? I mean, it’s not like I didn’t fly the route on WN 3-4 times per year up until a certain point.

3-4 times per year? That's it?

I've been flying this route 2x weekly, or 100+ times per year...

trexel94 wrote:

Nice write up on the new terminal by ThePointsGuy from an overall media tour. On time and on budget.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/kansas-city-new-terminal/

BHMNONREV wrote:

trexel94 wrote:

Nice write up on the new terminal by ThePointsGuy from an overall media tour. On time and on budget.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/kansas-city-new-terminal/

Well done with the on-time and on-budget!

Couple observations from the article, while the hold rooms appear to be adequate in size the walkway between appears to be extremely narrow. Was this intended to keep the costs down? And maybe I missed it, but I didn't see any mention of United and where they will set up shop in the new gate areas..

Thanks!

BHMNONREV wrote:

trexel94 wrote:

Nice write up on the new terminal by ThePointsGuy from an overall media tour. On time and on budget.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/kansas-city-new-terminal/

Well done with the on-time and on-budget!

Couple observations from the article, while the hold rooms appear to be adequate in size the walkway between appears to be extremely narrow. Was this intended to keep the costs down? And maybe I missed it, but I didn't see any mention of United and where they will set up shop in the new gate areas..

Thanks!

evank516 wrote:

KCaviator wrote:

evank516 wrote:

Um, cool? One flight out of two daily on one day? I mean, it’s not like I didn’t fly the route on WN 3-4 times per year up until a certain point.

3-4 times per year? That's it?

I've been flying this route 2x weekly, or 100+ times per year...

You missed the update. Saturday upgauge Oct 8-Nov 5. Also I never said all frequencies should be upgauged, just 1 or 2 at peak times.

MatthewTKS wrote:

Looks like Aer Lingus is coming to Cleveland. Makes me wonder if MCI will get an international service no one has been expecting. There are a lot more airlines than just the handful that have been the focus of all the speculation.

https://fox8.com/news/cleveland-offerin ... m-hopkins/

MatthewTKS wrote:

evank516 wrote:

KCaviator wrote:

3-4 times per year? That's it?

I've been flying this route 2x weekly, or 100+ times per year...

You missed the update. Saturday upgauge Oct 8-Nov 5. Also I never said all frequencies should be upgauged, just 1 or 2 at peak times.

Flying back on the afternoon LGA-MCI nonstop on WN yesterday, it was only me and 59 of my closest friends.

Airnerd wrote:

What’s the immigration and customs facility like in the new terminal?

International arrivals will park at Concourse A South, which is home to a new federal inspection station. There’ll be one baggage claim and a Customs and Border Protection facility waiting on the arrivals level just steps from the plane.

This area spills out into the main arrivals hall after clearing customs.

MatthewTKS wrote:

Airnerd wrote:

What’s the immigration and customs facility like in the new terminal?

This isn't a great answer but from the Points Guy's walk-thru:

International arrivals will park at Concourse A South, which is home to a new federal inspection station. There’ll be one baggage claim and a Customs and Border Protection facility waiting on the arrivals level just steps from the plane.

This area spills out into the main arrivals hall after clearing customs.

trexel94 wrote:

MatthewTKS wrote:

Airnerd wrote:

What’s the immigration and customs facility like in the new terminal?

This isn't a great answer but from the Points Guy's walk-thru:

International arrivals will park at Concourse A South, which is home to a new federal inspection station. There’ll be one baggage claim and a Customs and Border Protection facility waiting on the arrivals level just steps from the plane.

This area spills out into the main arrivals hall after clearing customs.

It should also be noted that there will be 4 internationally configured jetways with 2 of those being capable of simultaneous handling widebody jets (up to the 77W)

evank516 wrote:

MatthewTKS wrote:

evank516 wrote:

You missed the update. Saturday upgauge Oct 8-Nov 5. Also I never said all frequencies should be upgauged, just 1 or 2 at peak times.

Flying back on the afternoon LGA-MCI nonstop on WN yesterday, it was only me and 59 of my closest friends.

And yet Delta is upgauging a Saturday frequency starting this month. Runs through the end of the finalized schedule right now with November 12 as the exception.

strangeplanes wrote:

evank516 wrote:

MatthewTKS wrote:

Flying back on the afternoon LGA-MCI nonstop on WN yesterday, it was only me and 59 of my closest friends.

And yet Delta is upgauging a Saturday frequency starting this month. Runs through the end of the finalized schedule right now with November 12 as the exception.

looks like A220s throughout the week now

evank516 wrote:

strangeplanes wrote:

evank516 wrote:

And yet Delta is upgauging a Saturday frequency starting this month. Runs through the end of the finalized schedule right now with November 12 as the exception.

looks like A220s throughout the week now

Yeah it looks like it starts the week of Thanksgiving. This is a great change!

strangeplanes wrote:

evank516 wrote:

strangeplanes wrote:

looks like A220s throughout the week now

Yeah it looks like it starts the week of Thanksgiving. This is a great change!

2 of 4 A220s. Love it

worldtraveler2 wrote:

50 years ago: MCI was dedicated Monday, October 23, 1972 by U.S. Vice President Spiro Agnew.

Operations began Saturday, November 11, 1972 with 158 daily departures by the major carriers:

- TWA - 50 flights - 2x ABQ, AMA, 2x ATL, 10x ORD, MDW, 2x CVG, DTW, IND, LAS, 4x LAX, SDF, 3x LGA, PHX, 14x STL, 2x SFO, TUS, 3x ICT.
- Braniff - 40 flights - 7x ORD, 10x DAL, 4x DSM, DTW, 3x MSP, MSY, 2x OKC, 5x OMA, 3x TUL, 4x ICT.
- Frontier - 26 flights - BVO, 2x DAL, 3x DEN, 3x JLN, 2x LNK, MHK, 5x OMA, 2x PPF, 3x STL, 4x TOP.
- Continental - 12 flights - 3x ORD, 6x DEN, 2x LAX, TUL.
- Ozark - 10 flights - CID, 2x COU, 2x DSM, 2x OTM, PIA, 2x SGF.
- United - 9 flights - BAL, 3x ORD (no local traffic), DEN, PHL, SFO, SEA, IAD.
- Delta - 8 flights - 2x ATL, LIT, 4x MEM, SGF.
- North Central - 3 flights - 3x SUX.

Source: Airline timetables - 10/29/72 (DL, NC, OZ, TW, UA); 3/9/72 (CO); 7/1/72 (FL); 12/1/72 (BN).

First scheduled departure 1:20am - DL 788 MEM-BHM-ATL-EWR (D9S)
First scheduled arrival 1:34am - FL 10 LAS-DEN-MCI (73S)

Source: Kansas City Times 11/11/72.