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tjerome
Posts: 446
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2016 3:03 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2022

Sun Oct 16, 2022 3:47 pm

SESGDL wrote:
...Huh? LA-CLT is a larger market than ATL, DTW, MSP and SLC? Since when? Maybe I’m just misunderstanding.

Jeremy


That was a list of markets that DL does not currently serve. Bolded for emphasis.

jplatts wrote:
Here are the Q2 2022 PDEW's out of Greater Los Angeles of the top contiguous U.S. markets traveled to from Greater Los Angeles that don't currently have DL nonstop service out of LAX:
 
flyfresno
Posts: 1666
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 6:18 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2022

Sun Oct 16, 2022 4:20 pm

jplatts wrote:
Here are the Q2 2022 PDEW's out of Greater Los Angeles of the top contiguous U.S. markets traveled to from Greater Los Angeles that don't currently have DL nonstop service out of LAX:
Greater LA-ORD/MDW - 3255
Greater LA-PHL - 993
Greater LA-CLT - 635
Greater LA-STL - 537
Greater LA-CLE/CAK - 438
Greater LA-PIT - 350
Greater LA-ELP - 327
Greater LA-EUG - 315
Greater LA-OMA - 254
Greater LA-STS - 243 (STS not currently served by DL)
Greater LA-OKC - 239
Greater LA-BDL - 230
Greater LA-MKE - 223
Greater LA-JAX - 222
Greater LA-TUL - 215
Greater LA-SDF - 206
Greater LA-CHS - 188
Greater LA-BUF - 183
Greater LA-ORF - 175
Greater LA-RIC - 167


Out of curiosity what's FAT?
 
Delta28L
Posts: 576
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:00 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2022

Sun Oct 16, 2022 4:41 pm

flyfresno wrote:
jplatts wrote:
Here are the Q2 2022 PDEW's out of Greater Los Angeles of the top contiguous U.S. markets traveled to from Greater Los Angeles that don't currently have DL nonstop service out of LAX:
Greater LA-ORD/MDW - 3255
Greater LA-PHL - 993
Greater LA-CLT - 635
Greater LA-STL - 537
Greater LA-CLE/CAK - 438
Greater LA-PIT - 350
Greater LA-ELP - 327
Greater LA-EUG - 315
Greater LA-OMA - 254
Greater LA-STS - 243 (STS not currently served by DL)
Greater LA-OKC - 239
Greater LA-BDL - 230
Greater LA-MKE - 223
Greater LA-JAX - 222
Greater LA-TUL - 215
Greater LA-SDF - 206
Greater LA-CHS - 188
Greater LA-BUF - 183
Greater LA-ORF - 175
Greater LA-RIC - 167


Out of curiosity what's FAT?


Fresno California identification code
 
AC4500
Posts: 1117
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:02 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2022

Sun Oct 16, 2022 5:22 pm

Delta28L wrote:
flyfresno wrote:
jplatts wrote:
Here are the Q2 2022 PDEW's out of Greater Los Angeles of the top contiguous U.S. markets traveled to from Greater Los Angeles that don't currently have DL nonstop service out of LAX:
Greater LA-ORD/MDW - 3255
Greater LA-PHL - 993
Greater LA-CLT - 635
Greater LA-STL - 537
Greater LA-CLE/CAK - 438
Greater LA-PIT - 350
Greater LA-ELP - 327
Greater LA-EUG - 315
Greater LA-OMA - 254
Greater LA-STS - 243 (STS not currently served by DL)
Greater LA-OKC - 239
Greater LA-BDL - 230
Greater LA-MKE - 223
Greater LA-JAX - 222
Greater LA-TUL - 215
Greater LA-SDF - 206
Greater LA-CHS - 188
Greater LA-BUF - 183
Greater LA-ORF - 175
Greater LA-RIC - 167


Out of curiosity what's FAT?


Fresno California identification code

They're asking for the LA-FAT numbers.
 
flyboy80
Posts: 2195
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2001 8:10 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2022

Sun Oct 16, 2022 6:53 pm

LAX-EUG and RDM daily on a 221/223 or even a 175 would seem to be a good add.
 
jbs2886
Posts: 4693
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2022

Sun Oct 16, 2022 7:34 pm

Delta28L wrote:
flyfresno wrote:
jplatts wrote:
Here are the Q2 2022 PDEW's out of Greater Los Angeles of the top contiguous U.S. markets traveled to from Greater Los Angeles that don't currently have DL nonstop service out of LAX:
Greater LA-ORD/MDW - 3255
Greater LA-PHL - 993
Greater LA-CLT - 635
Greater LA-STL - 537
Greater LA-CLE/CAK - 438
Greater LA-PIT - 350
Greater LA-ELP - 327
Greater LA-EUG - 315
Greater LA-OMA - 254
Greater LA-STS - 243 (STS not currently served by DL)
Greater LA-OKC - 239
Greater LA-BDL - 230
Greater LA-MKE - 223
Greater LA-JAX - 222
Greater LA-TUL - 215
Greater LA-SDF - 206
Greater LA-CHS - 188
Greater LA-BUF - 183
Greater LA-ORF - 175
Greater LA-RIC - 167


Out of curiosity what's FAT?


Fresno California identification code


Check out his username, it’s Fresno.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 11763
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2022

Sun Oct 16, 2022 8:07 pm

flyboy80 wrote:
LAX-EUG and RDM daily on a 221/223 or even a 175 would seem to be a good add.


You don't love UA's CR2 on LAX-RDM? :lol:
 
GSP psgr
Posts: 907
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 7:09 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2022

Sun Oct 16, 2022 10:00 pm

As far as slowly getting back to normal in Asia for Delta, from DTW what’s the consensus on what returns and what doesn’t? I’d guess that HND and ICN are givens, NGO and PVG likely, and PEK….probably, eventually. Does the 350 change the game as far as a possible resumption of DTW-HKG? I could never figure out quite exactly how poorly that route performed. I have to think that DTW-CAN/SIN/KIX would be longer shots for new routes from DTW.
 
jbs2886
Posts: 4693
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2022

Sun Oct 16, 2022 10:20 pm

GSP psgr wrote:
As far as slowly getting back to normal in Asia for Delta, from DTW what’s the consensus on what returns and what doesn’t? I’d guess that HND and ICN are givens, NGO and PVG likely, and PEK….probably, eventually. Does the 350 change the game as far as a possible resumption of DTW-HKG? I could never figure out quite exactly how poorly that route performed. I have to think that DTW-CAN/SIN/KIX would be longer shots for new routes from DTW.


DTW-NGO has already returned...

Chinese flights will return in my opinion, but PEK will not return, it will be PKX. PVG will return as well. I can't see DTW getting new Asian routes over LAX and/or SEA.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 11763
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2022

Sun Oct 16, 2022 10:46 pm

GSP psgr wrote:
I have to think that DTW-CAN/SIN/KIX would be longer shots for new routes from DTW.


Given that DTW-SIN is 8,166nm on a Great Circle route that passes extensively over Russian airspace, and would have zero O&D, I don't think I'll hold my breath for that one. They couldn't even make SEA-KIX work. Even UA SFO-KIX in January isn't daily.
 
flyfresno
Posts: 1666
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 6:18 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2022

Mon Oct 17, 2022 12:26 am

jbs2886 wrote:
Delta28L wrote:
flyfresno wrote:

Out of curiosity what's FAT?


Fresno California identification code


Check out his username, it’s Fresno.


I'm asking if you have LA Basin to FAT numbers by any chance?
 
User avatar
Boeing757100
Posts: 1539
Joined: Wed May 06, 2020 10:09 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2022

Mon Oct 17, 2022 12:55 am

GSP psgr wrote:
As far as slowly getting back to normal in Asia for Delta, from DTW what’s the consensus on what returns and what doesn’t? I’d guess that HND and ICN are givens, NGO and PVG likely, and PEK….probably, eventually. Does the 350 change the game as far as a possible resumption of DTW-HKG? I could never figure out quite exactly how poorly that route performed. I have to think that DTW-CAN/SIN/KIX would be longer shots for new routes from DTW.

I'd think with all the restrictions on new US-China routes, I'd rule out CAN pretty easily, with HKG going that same route too.

As for SIN, come on, if DL hasn't even attempted SEA/LAX-SIN yet, then I'd assume it's likely they are more than fine with ceding any SIN traffic they have to KE via ICN.

For "normal rebuilding", I'd probably only think of DL just reinstating PVG/ICN/HND in most of its hub cities in the US, with adding more Japanese cities after that. Unlikely that any significant new nonstop adds like SIN/MNL/HKG/CAN/BKK will be a thing in some time yet.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 9912
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2022

Mon Oct 17, 2022 12:56 am

GSP psgr wrote:
As far as slowly getting back to normal in Asia for Delta, from DTW what’s the consensus on what returns and what doesn’t? I’d guess that HND and ICN are givens, NGO and PVG likely, and PEK….probably, eventually. Does the 350 change the game as far as a possible resumption of DTW-HKG? I could never figure out quite exactly how poorly that route performed. I have to think that DTW-CAN/SIN/KIX would be longer shots for new routes from DTW.


DL kept the core of their DTW TPAC network going even through the depth of the pandemic.
ICN & HND never completely stopped, and ICN-PVG & NGO were brought back at 1-2x weekly pretty quickly.

Current snap-shot of DTW TPAC flying:

ICN daily A359
HND 3x weekly A359; returning to daily 10/29
PVG (via ICN) 3x weekly A359 (this is in addition to the daily ICN flight, crew change in ICN so they don't have to overnight crews in PVG)
NGO 1x weekly A359
PKX loaded for daily A359 restarting 6/1/23

The reality with TPAC right now is that ICN is back, Japan is hopefully going to snap-back, and well China now is China.

ICN, HND, NGO are coming back.
PVG is being flown as it is now, and restoration of PVG & PKX is dependent on China's covid policies.

Beyond that, nothing is going to happen TPAC wise (across all hubs) until China comes back online.
Restoring the TPAC network is going to be ICN & Japan, then whenever China decides to open-up.
Anything outside of that is a ways out from all hubs.
 
phllax
Posts: 788
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:53 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2022

Mon Oct 17, 2022 2:13 am

nine4nine wrote:
SLCaviation wrote:
SLC-BUR also gets mainline this September.


I looked into booking on the site and in Sept and Oct I’m still seeing E175 by delta connection.

What do you see and what mainline equipment?


Looks like it’s been changed to a CS100 operating the morning turn.
 
nine4nine
Posts: 948
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:44 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2022

Mon Oct 17, 2022 2:21 am

phllax wrote:
nine4nine wrote:
SLCaviation wrote:
SLC-BUR also gets mainline this September.


I looked into booking on the site and in Sept and Oct I’m still seeing E175 by delta connection.

What do you see and what mainline equipment?


Looks like it’s been changed to a CS100 operating the morning turn.



Yes I saw that as well. Digging a little deeper looks like as of January the CS100 goes to a 319.
 
CIDFlyer
Posts: 2370
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:19 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2022

Mon Oct 17, 2022 2:23 am

Adding capacity back to MSP and DTW definitely should be a priority. My hometown market CID has 4 Delta flights. We recently lost DTW but gained a frequency to MSP so it’s 3x MSP all CRJ and 1 Airbus to ATL. In Nov 2 of 3 MSP flights go to CRJ900 but by December we lose the lone CRJ200 and then it will be 2 CR9s to MSP and 1 A320 to ATL.

Contrast this to AA which will be 3 mainline A319 to DFW, 1 A319 to CLT, 1 A319 to PHX and 2 E145/1 E75 to ORD that’s a skeleton schedule.

I’m glad to see DL at least finally getting the CRJ200 out of here though.
 
flyfresno
Posts: 1666
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 6:18 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2022

Mon Oct 17, 2022 6:19 am

CIDFlyer wrote:
Adding capacity back to MSP and DTW definitely should be a priority. My hometown market CID has 4 Delta flights. We recently lost DTW but gained a frequency to MSP so it’s 3x MSP all CRJ and 1 Airbus to ATL. In Nov 2 of 3 MSP flights go to CRJ900 but by December we lose the lone CRJ200 and then it will be 2 CR9s to MSP and 1 A320 to ATL.

Contrast this to AA which will be 3 mainline A319 to DFW, 1 A319 to CLT, 1 A319 to PHX and 2 E145/1 E75 to ORD that’s a skeleton schedule.

I’m glad to see DL at least finally getting the CRJ200 out of here though.


For whatever reason, Delta has punted a ton of small to midsized cities like Cedar Rapids, Colorado Springs, and Fresno. They seem much more content to expand in larger markets and provide almost token service to smaller cities while their competition grows in those markets.
 
jethawk
Posts: 53
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:42 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2022

Mon Oct 17, 2022 7:35 am

CIDFlyer wrote:
Adding capacity back to MSP and DTW definitely should be a priority. My hometown market CID has 4 Delta flights. We recently lost DTW but gained a frequency to MSP so it’s 3x MSP all CRJ and 1 Airbus to ATL. In Nov 2 of 3 MSP flights go to CRJ900 but by December we lose the lone CRJ200 and then it will be 2 CR9s to MSP and 1 A320 to ATL.

Contrast this to AA which will be 3 mainline A319 to DFW, 1 A319 to CLT, 1 A319 to PHX and 2 E145/1 E75 to ORD that’s a skeleton schedule.

I’m glad to see DL at least finally getting the CRJ200 out of here though.



Iowa has been totally gutted. The decreased service to CID is disappointing and is felt in DSM too. One has to wonder what the flight schedule would look like in DSM if the Endeavor maintenance base did not exist. Labor shortages continue to plague airlines, and the Midwest feels the pull down. I know SkyMiles fans in DSM will be happy if SLC returns post concourse expansion.

I will continue to watch what Delta does in MCI, AUS, and DEN. I have high hopes for these cities.

https://flycid.com/wp-content/uploads/M ... _STATS.pdf

https://www.flydsm.com/about-us/news
 
Osubuckeyes
Posts: 1942
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:05 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2022

Mon Oct 17, 2022 2:20 pm

Anyone have the stats on % of ASM or % of flights out of NYC/BOS now vs 2019. I would be interested to see that for two reasons, first being the obvious, the speculation regarding shifting away from the Midwest to LGA/BOS. Second, after all of the operational issues over the last year trying to push a higher % of flights through operationally vulnerable areas is an interesting way to degrade network resiliency.

The load factors out of BOS above were an interesting picture. DL seems to do quite well there historically, however I have to wonder if they are able to do most of that flying with any meaningful margin. The old a.net adage of LF =/= equal profitability may ring true here based on the fares I see out of both NYC & BOS, which is a bit ironic when DL publicly states its chasing the premium passenger.
 
TonyClifton
Posts: 552
Joined: Thu May 14, 2020 3:19 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2022

Mon Oct 17, 2022 2:35 pm

Delta just posted a record Q3 and people are still trying to Monday morning quarterback their moves in the Midwest. They aren’t in this to lose money, and whatever they’re doing with their flying in NYC/BOS is working.
 
mesasurf
Posts: 214
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2022 3:40 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2022

Mon Oct 17, 2022 3:00 pm

As far as the SLC concourse expansion goes, there is a lot of confusion and misunderstanding of the 22 gates being added. Once the full build out of concourse A is complete, DL/OO are only gaining seven new gates, not the 22 gates everyone is drooling over. There are currently 15 gates that OO uses that require a shuttle to go to/from. Once the full concourse A expansion is complete those 15 gates will be moved to the east concourse A expansion. Add on the seven new gates that have not existed before and you have your 22 new gates. Seven new gates is better than nothing but it’s not the full 22 everyone is thinking.
 
tinpusher007
Posts: 1001
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:03 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2022

Mon Oct 17, 2022 3:10 pm

mesasurf wrote:
As far as the SLC concourse expansion goes, there is a lot of confusion and misunderstanding of the 22 gates being added. Once the full build out of concourse A is complete, DL/OO are only gaining seven new gates, not the 22 gates everyone is drooling over. There are currently 15 gates that OO uses that require a shuttle to go to/from. Once the full concourse A expansion is complete those 15 gates will be moved to the east concourse A expansion. Add on the seven new gates that have not existed before and you have your 22 new gates. Seven new gates is better than nothing but it’s not the full 22 everyone is thinking.

So the eastern half of A that has yet to open will contain 22 gates and of those, DL only gets 15? If so, who gets the other 7? What will be the final breakdown of gates that DL/OO operate from across A and B?
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 13974
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2022

Mon Oct 17, 2022 3:18 pm

tinpusher007 wrote:
mesasurf wrote:
As far as the SLC concourse expansion goes, there is a lot of confusion and misunderstanding of the 22 gates being added. Once the full build out of concourse A is complete, DL/OO are only gaining seven new gates, not the 22 gates everyone is drooling over. There are currently 15 gates that OO uses that require a shuttle to go to/from. Once the full concourse A expansion is complete those 15 gates will be moved to the east concourse A expansion. Add on the seven new gates that have not existed before and you have your 22 new gates. Seven new gates is better than nothing but it’s not the full 22 everyone is thinking.

So the eastern half of A that has yet to open will contain 22 gates and of those, DL only gets 15? If so, who gets the other 7? What will be the final breakdown of gates that DL/OO operate from across A and B?

I think he is saying that DL/OO will occupy all the gates, but 15 of those gates are replacing remote gates/stands currently used by OO elsewhere at the airport. So the net addition for DL/OO is 7 new gates.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 9912
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2022

Mon Oct 17, 2022 4:09 pm

In SLC though the reality is with the staffing situation at the regionals and mainline, they are not fully utilizing all 15 of the hardstand bus gates.
Even though the hardstands are only capable of regional aircraft, DL was using some of their contact gates for 2-class RJs. Thus if they needed more mainline gates, they could've pushed some of those RJs over to the hardstands. Granted, maybe during the peak morning arrival bank they could have been gate constrained, but for the majority of the operating day, DL is not fully gate constrained.

It seemed like the hardstands were used more actually in 2021 before the massive pull down of CR2 flying. In 2022, it seemed rare to ever have more than 5-7 aircraft on the hardstands at a time.

This goes back to the ability to properly staff the mainline and regionals, and restore capacity at the core hubs. SLC isn't necessarily going to go gang-busters when the new gates open since staffing ultimately is the biggest constraint.
 
phllax
Posts: 788
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:53 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2022

Mon Oct 17, 2022 6:28 pm

nine4nine wrote:
phllax wrote:
nine4nine wrote:

I looked into booking on the site and in Sept and Oct I’m still seeing E175 by delta connection.

What do you see and what mainline equipment?


Looks like it’s been changed to a CS100 operating the morning turn.



Yes I saw that as well. Digging a little deeper looks like as of January the CS100 goes to a 319.


The 319 was used for some time during the height of Covid when they were forced to fly the route 1x daily.
 
Osubuckeyes
Posts: 1942
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:05 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2022

Mon Oct 17, 2022 6:52 pm

TonyClifton wrote:
Delta just posted a record Q3 and people are still trying to Monday morning quarterback their moves in the Midwest. They aren’t in this to lose money, and whatever they’re doing with their flying in NYC/BOS is working.


They pretty much state in the Q3 earnings report that they may be choking out demand on short/mid-haul high margin flying from core hubs (hence their 2023 growth plan)... So that begs the question are they leaving money on the table committing resources to NYC/BOS? Somewhat rhetorical, but historically in this industry focusing on more competitive markets to compete for revenue and market share has not been the most profitable strategy, however, DL management seems tot be aware that there is need to refocus on core hubs. They also state that 25% of their growth will be out of NYC/BOS, which is interesting.
 
dcajet
Posts: 6224
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2022

Wed Oct 19, 2022 7:38 pm

Effective 26OCT, Delta returns to its traditional daily operation on the ATL - EZE (DL101/110) route, which had been reduced to 5x w following the pandemic. Flights are operated with the 238-seat 767-432ER, featuring the Delta One suites.
 
User avatar
N292UX
Posts: 907
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:08 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2022

Wed Oct 19, 2022 8:31 pm

What are the total daily departures for DL from their hubs? IIRC a few months ago ATL was at about ~750 flights, MSP/DTW 300, SLC 260, and LGA at around 225 or so. Would be curious to see how much that has changed in recent months
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26877
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2022

Wed Oct 19, 2022 10:06 pm

Looks like Havana is coming back, starting with MIA-HAV first. Delta has 21 weekly Havana frequencies - 14 to Miami and 7 to Atlanta.

https://skift.com/2022/10/19/delta-and- ... to-havana/
 
Flyingstump
Posts: 96
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2017 4:43 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2022

Wed Oct 19, 2022 10:11 pm

Delta added more frequency to Brazil after their Joint Venture with LATAM was approved, and just before COVID, they started TPA and MCO to MIA for connections onward to South America. I think they've kept MCO-MIA, but I wonder if they'll resume TPA-MIA.

Only American flies TPA-MIA and has a lock on connections to South America. Spirit has one flight form TPA-FLL in the morning and a flight in the evening from FLL-TPA, but their route network to South America isn't as vast as American at MIA. JetBlue has a strong presence in FLL, but they don't fly TPA-FLL. Silver Airways does, but that isn't always a great connection.
 
evank516
Posts: 2426
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2022

Wed Oct 19, 2022 10:11 pm

LGA-MCI is getting A220s now. 1x Saturday only until the week of thanksgiving (x Nov 12) then 2x daily except Sat (1x) and all RJs on Sunday. Now going through the week before Christmas but I’m guessing the schedule isn’t finalized that far yet.
 
mesasurf
Posts: 214
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2022 3:40 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2022

Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:39 am

Exciting news for Delta in SLC. Delta Air Lines has big plans for Salt Lake City’s airport. Here’s what the carrier wants to do.

Some excerpts:
Delta intends to open a facility on airport-owned property with flight simulators and crew training programs, Department of Airports Executive Director Bill Wyatt told Salt Lake City Council members last month.

The company presumably looked at other hub cities such as Detroit and Minneapolis-St. Paul when weighing where to expand its training operations, Harteveldt said. It landed on Salt Lake City because it has the infrastructure it needs and the ability to get any additional acreage for the new complex at a reasonable price.

Delta’s new facilities are slated for the International Center, a cluster of buildings just west of the airport.

Delta extended its lease agreement that was due to expire in 2024 by 10 years, giving investors more confidence in the airport. No other airline agreed to such an extension.

The company also is poised to deepen its ties to Utah’s capital with a new contract that could stretch its lease to 2054.

The agreement represents an essential piece of funding that would allow the airport to get the bonds it needs to round out construction of concourse B. The City Council last month signed off on allowing the airport to spend $683 million on the 16-gate expansion.

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2022/10/18/ ... s-airport/
 
DaveMetroD
Posts: 209
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2021 4:05 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2022

Thu Oct 20, 2022 11:28 am

mesasurf wrote:

The company presumably looked at other hub cities such as Detroit and Minneapolis-St. Paul when weighing where to expand its training operations, Harteveldt said. It landed on Salt Lake City because it has the infrastructure it needs and the ability to get any additional acreage for the new complex at a reasonable price.

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2022/10/18/ ... s-airport/


Article is paywalled.
My translation, they're giving Delta economic incentives.
DTW has the infrastructure and lots of actual onsite airport land available.
MSP might be a little tight on the onsite airport land but I doubt that ever entered Delta's decision.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 9912
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2022

Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:22 pm

I would think another reason is having a training center in the western US to support all the pilots bases in SEA, LAX, SLC than having to dead-head / non-rev / commute all the pilots back to recurrent training in ATL.
 
777Mech
Posts: 1451
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:54 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2022

Thu Oct 20, 2022 2:08 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
I would think another reason is having a training center in the western US to support all the pilots bases in SEA, LAX, SLC than having to dead-head / non-rev / commute all the pilots back to recurrent training in ATL.


This is the sole reason. ATL is out of space, and LAX and SEA are too expensive.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 9912
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2022

Thu Oct 20, 2022 2:56 pm

Yep....and there is a huge chunk of development ready land directly adjacent to the west of SLC along I-80 that is ripe for development. Amazon is building up DCs like crazy in this area. Great proximity to SLC and a whole bunch of hotels adjacent to the area and the airport as well.
 
Cactusjuba
Posts: 379
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:06 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2022

Thu Oct 20, 2022 5:17 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
I would think another reason is having a training center in the western US to support all the pilots bases in SEA, LAX, SLC than having to dead-head / non-rev / commute all the pilots back to recurrent training in ATL.


Taking it a step further, it's more than just logistics of longer flights to/from ATL. It's about Mountain & Pacific time zones starting SIM sessions in Eastern time zone that conflict with their "Window of Circadian Low". The West Coast pilots can't be utilized on the early AM sessions in ATL. Since ATL is out space for new SIMs, it makes sense to diversify the location to a time zone out west where they can better utilize training capacity. With their higher real estate and hotel costs, SLC beats out SEA/LAX. Initially just a small number of SIMs on mainstay NB fleets. Focus on recurrent training, not full new-type rating footprints.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 9912
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2022

Thu Oct 20, 2022 5:29 pm

Yep...makes sense to move some of the recurrent capacity on the 73N & 320 fleets to SLC.
 
BB78710
Posts: 118
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:31 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2022

Thu Oct 20, 2022 5:32 pm

DaveMetroD wrote:
Article is paywalled.
My translation, they're giving Delta economic incentives.
DTW has the infrastructure and lots of actual onsite airport land available.
MSP might be a little tight on the onsite airport land but I doubt that ever entered Delta's decision.


Doesn't Delta already have a training center out west in SLC for their flight attendants in addition to their training center in ATL?

If so could that have been a factor in choosing SLC over DTW especially their plans are to expand an existing campus?
 
TW870
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Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:01 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2022

Fri Oct 21, 2022 1:48 am

TonyClifton wrote:
Delta just posted a record Q3 and people are still trying to Monday morning quarterback their moves in the Midwest. They aren’t in this to lose money, and whatever they’re doing with their flying in NYC/BOS is working.


That is not a fair way to characterize many of the posts on the midwest topic. I live in the midwest and have been significantly impacted by the cutbacks here. But I fully understand that to be competitive globally, Delta needs to develop coastal hubs/gateway cities in the largest economic markets in the U.S., and to foster its highly competitive hubs in LAX, SEA, BOS, and NYC. Many of us have posted for informational reasons, to explain how drastic the schedule changes have been for other enthusiasts who do not live in the region and may not have noticed the change.

It is also important to note that this is a systemic problem. Yes, it sucks for me that DL has dropped both DAY-DTW and DAY-MSP. But United has also cut DAY-DEN, DAY-IAH, and DAY-EWR while cutting frequency on DAY-ORD. One of the reasons I am not switching airlines is because everyone's schedule is terrible out of DAY. I think this is in part the result of the switch to "premium leisure" travel. Most folks aren't coming here to work remotely for fun like they are in California, Montana, Florida. With reduced business travel, the market has shrunk relative to the coastal markets.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2022

Fri Oct 21, 2022 2:42 am

TonyClifton wrote:
Delta just posted a record Q3 and people are still trying to Monday morning quarterback their moves in the Midwest. They aren’t in this to lose money, and whatever they’re doing with their flying in NYC/BOS is working.


Not trying to be rude, but have you listened to anything DL management has said? They are doing the NYC/BOS expansion because they have been doing well elsewhere.

They'll be the first to say BOS/NYC aren't their highest margin hubs...and they'll say they haven't dedicated enough capacity to their regional markets (Southeast/Midwest):

"Looking to 2023, we are shifting our focus to our core hubs, Atlanta, Minneapolis, Detroit and Salt Lake City, with approximately 75% of domestic seat growth dedicated to full restoration of our higher-margin core hubs"

"And then domestically, these are customers that we know want to fly Delta. These are in our core regional markets that we just weren't able to produce capacity at attractive inventory levels that they would want to purchase on Delta."

"We choked off what I would say is more of our traditional flow in very key markets where Delta has historically been the leading carrier, particularly in the Southeast....in a lot of cases, they couldn't get fares that were competitive on Delta because we didn't have the seats to produce those......we've assigned our team is to get those historical high-yield flow customers back on Delta. And that's really our -- what our rebuild phase for 2023 is all about."

https://www.fool.com/earnings/call-tran ... -transcri/
 
jplatts
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2022

Thu Oct 27, 2022 5:27 pm

ILS28ORD wrote:
Other than Delta / KLM / Air France hubs, where does Delta fly into that it shares a terminal with many of its Skyteam partners on such a large scale?


At IAD, DL's partners AF, KL, KE, and VS operate out of Concourse A at IAD, which is in the same building as the Concourse B gates that DL operates out of at IAD.

At MIA, DL's partners AR, AM, AF, LA, JJ, and VS operate out of the South Terminal in addition to DL.

DL's partners AM, KL, and VS operate out of the Barbara Jordan Terminal at AUS (AUS's main terminal) in addition to DL.

DL's partner AM operates out of Airside B at MCO in addition to DL.

DL's partner AM operates out of Terminal A at SAT in addition to DL.
 
rjbesikof
Posts: 639
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:21 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2022

Thu Oct 27, 2022 11:20 pm

Was not expecting this.
DL will be adding an A359 to one of its MSP-PHX flights.from 12/17/2022 to 4/9/2023.
Will it rotate with MSP-ICN?
https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/221027-dldec22phx
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 4951
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2022

Fri Oct 28, 2022 6:48 am

rjbesikof wrote:
Was not expecting this.
DL will be adding an A359 to one of its MSP-PHX flights.from 12/17/2022 to 4/9/2023.
Will it rotate with MSP-ICN?
https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/221027-dldec22phx


MSP-PHX/AZA is MSP's #1 route in the winter with 7 carriers on it. It is very high volume, to the point it was NW's first 747-400 route.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2022

Fri Oct 28, 2022 6:08 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Another one bites the dust….

DL dropping DTW-SBN (was 4-5x day pre-COVID)


DL dropping DTW-CWA (was 2x/day pre-COVID)


Another one DTW-BGM (was 2x/day pre-COVID), moving to LGA

https://www.wicz.com/story/47585343/del ... rt-in-2023
 
SESGDL
Posts: 3286
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:25 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2022

Fri Oct 28, 2022 6:16 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Another one bites the dust….

DL dropping DTW-SBN (was 4-5x day pre-COVID)


DL dropping DTW-CWA (was 2x/day pre-COVID)


Another one DTW-BGM (was 2x/day pre-COVID), moving to LGA

https://www.wicz.com/story/47585343/del ... rt-in-2023


I don’t understand this move. I’d certainly imagine this route was more profitable from DTW than it will be from LGA. Not sure what DL is doing lately with some of its planning decisions.

Jeremy
 
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Midwestindy
Posts: 7448
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2022

Fri Oct 28, 2022 6:36 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Another one bites the dust….

DL dropping DTW-SBN (was 4-5x day pre-COVID)


DL dropping DTW-CWA (was 2x/day pre-COVID)


Another one DTW-BGM (was 2x/day pre-COVID), moving to LGA

https://www.wicz.com/story/47585343/del ... rt-in-2023


Another one DTW-ITH (was 3x pre-COVID), moving to JFK
Image
https://www.deltacargo.com/Cargo/flight ... archResult
Last edited by Midwestindy on Fri Oct 28, 2022 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
SurfandSnow
Posts: 1763
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:09 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2022

Fri Oct 28, 2022 6:48 pm

SESGDL wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

DL dropping DTW-CWA (was 2x/day pre-COVID)


Another one DTW-BGM (was 2x/day pre-COVID), moving to LGA

https://www.wicz.com/story/47585343/del ... rt-in-2023


I don’t understand this move. I’d certainly imagine this route was more profitable from DTW than it will be from LGA. Not sure what DL is doing lately with some of its planning decisions.

Jeremy


Perfectly logical move. NYC probably has far greater O&D from upstate New York than Detroit, and for connecting pax, LGA is far less out of the way for those en route to Florida. Never mind the fact that regional operations such as this have long been a great way to squat on scarce slots ;-)
 
TonyClifton
Posts: 552
Joined: Thu May 14, 2020 3:19 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2022

Fri Oct 28, 2022 6:53 pm

NYC-ITH/BGM also uses less block time for crew/aircraft than DTW routing. Regionals are shrinking after all.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2022

Fri Oct 28, 2022 7:04 pm

DL can’t cut BGM without getting the wrath of Uncle Chuck as they are the last airline left there. Make sense and helps with LGA slot squating. Cuts off BGM from connections anything beyond perimeter but they can always use ITH for that or just go to SYR for much better air service in general

Granted the 1x CR2 daily to DTW wasn’t doing much of anything for anyone that needed to travel on a schedule

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