Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
freakyrat wrote:AT SBN they are moving the Delta Connection flights to ATL back to Skywest from Endeavor so there goes the CRJ900's they were going to operate this summer on the route.
freakyrat wrote:AT SBN they are moving the Delta Connection flights to ATL back to Skywest from Endeavor so there goes the CRJ900's they were going to operate this summer on the route.
Detroit313 wrote:More than 160 cancellations so far today and it is not even noon. Also, more than 230 flights delayed so far.
Endeavor at around 140 cancellations so far.
DiamondFlyer wrote:freakyrat wrote:AT SBN they are moving the Delta Connection flights to ATL back to Skywest from Endeavor so there goes the CRJ900's they were going to operate this summer on the route.
You'll always likely have Skywest because of their maintenance facility there, so enjoy the crappy service. There's lot of shuffling around the system with the regional jets in the next few months as well.
jmscsc wrote:freakyrat wrote:AT SBN they are moving the Delta Connection flights to ATL back to Skywest from Endeavor so there goes the CRJ900's they were going to operate this summer on the route.
I just flew in and out of SBN last week and the ATL - SBN leg was downgraded from a CRJ900 to the horrible CRJ200. A stroke of luck had it upgraded to the CRJ700 the day before! I'm moving back to SBN next month and not looking forward to the Skywest service.
Detroit313 wrote:More than 160 cancellations so far today and it is not even noon. Also, more than 230 flights delayed so far.
Endeavor at around 140 cancellations so far.
DLASFlyer wrote:There is nothing proactive about Delta’s operation of late.
freakyrat wrote:jmscsc wrote:freakyrat wrote:AT SBN they are moving the Delta Connection flights to ATL back to Skywest from Endeavor so there goes the CRJ900's they were going to operate this summer on the route.
I just flew in and out of SBN last week and the ATL - SBN leg was downgraded from a CRJ900 to the horrible CRJ200. A stroke of luck had it upgraded to the CRJ700 the day before! I'm moving back to SBN next month and not looking forward to the Skywest service.
According to statistics it appesrs that the locals are preferring CLT over ATL for making connections going South which means flying on PSA CRJ700's and mostly 900's
DLASFlyer wrote:There is nothing proactive about Delta’s operation of late.
freakyrat wrote:jmscsc wrote:freakyrat wrote:AT SBN they are moving the Delta Connection flights to ATL back to Skywest from Endeavor so there goes the CRJ900's they were going to operate this summer on the route.
I just flew in and out of SBN last week and the ATL - SBN leg was downgraded from a CRJ900 to the horrible CRJ200. A stroke of luck had it upgraded to the CRJ700 the day before! I'm moving back to SBN next month and not looking forward to the Skywest service.
According to statistics it appesrs that the locals are preferring CLT over ATL for making connections going South which means flying on PSA CRJ700's and mostly 900's
kavok wrote:I too am having a very hard time seeing what DL’s long term Midwestern strategy is. Outside of the three markets of Chicago, STL & CLE, DL used to be the Midwest’s legacy airline of choice, obviously inheriting a lot of that from NW. And to their credit, DL worked hard to maintain that through most of the 2010s. But not so much lately.
And to be fair, both DTW and MSP relied very heavily on the CRJs to make their networks functional. But we have all known the CR2s we’re going away. That was known before Covid. So what was DLs plan when that happened? There doesn’t seem to be one.
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
DL currently is an operationally broken airline and needs to get their house in order and probably show some executives the door.
freakyrat wrote:kavok wrote:I too am having a very hard time seeing what DL’s long term Midwestern strategy is. Outside of the three markets of Chicago, STL & CLE, DL used to be the Midwest’s legacy airline of choice, obviously inheriting a lot of that from NW. And to their credit, DL worked hard to maintain that through most of the 2010s. But not so much lately.
And to be fair, both DTW and MSP relied very heavily on the CRJs to make their networks functional. But we have all known the CR2s we’re going away. That was known before Covid. So what was DLs plan when that happened? There doesn’t seem to be one.
What DL had planned at SBN pre Covid was to take the Four at the time Atlanta flights and upgrade all to CRJ900's and the lone MSP flight to a CRJ900 and the Four DTW flights were to remain CRJ200's because of the short distance. Here's what actaully happened because of Covid. ATL was switched from Skywest to Endeavor. Flights were cut to 3 and sometimes 2 but CRJ200's were upgraded to CRJ900's. the 4 CRJ200's to DTW were replaced with 1 Skywest CRJ900. A DTW net loss of 130 seats. When the lone MSP flight was resumed it was upgraded to a CRJ900. The afternoon CRJ200 to MSP was never resumed. A MSP net loss of 30 seats. The longrange plans Pre Covid also was to upgrade the Morning flight to ATL to a B717 Mainline with the return in the late evening. Now anything goes as DL moved Skywest into ATL and the CRJ900's that were suppose to return in those runs have not so passengers are stuck in the miserable CRJ200's for those ATL flights while AA connect passengers on their 2 daily CRJ700 or CRJ900 flight through CLT and that route is taking over from ATL as the number 2 destination out of the city. So you are right. Right now DL doesn't have any answers in the Midwest and the DTW and MSP hubs are floundering. Plus they are losing market share to AA.
kavok wrote:Outside of the three markets of Chicago, STL & CLE, DL used to be the Midwest’s legacy airline of choice, obviously inheriting a lot of that from NW. And to their credit, DL worked hard to maintain that through most of the 2010s.
DL757NYC wrote:Delta had planned on the pandemic to be a protracted recovery.
panam330 wrote:DL757NYC wrote:Delta had planned on the pandemic to be a protracted recovery.
Everyone did; it's not an excuse for overscheduling your resources. Certain other airlines (like AS and B6) are also doing it, and we're currently seeing the results of that now with big frequency pulldowns and route cuts. AA and UA seem to be having better luck with their staffing, it seems. Certainly not great, but better than DL has been of late.
freakyrat wrote:kavok wrote:I too am having a very hard time seeing what DL’s long term Midwestern strategy is. Outside of the three markets of Chicago, STL & CLE, DL used to be the Midwest’s legacy airline of choice, obviously inheriting a lot of that from NW. And to their credit, DL worked hard to maintain that through most of the 2010s. But not so much lately.
And to be fair, both DTW and MSP relied very heavily on the CRJs to make their networks functional. But we have all known the CR2s we’re going away. That was known before Covid. So what was DLs plan when that happened? There doesn’t seem to be one.
What DL had planned at SBN pre Covid was to take the Four at the time Atlanta flights and upgrade all to CRJ900's and the lone MSP flight to a CRJ900 and the Four DTW flights were to remain CRJ200's because of the short distance. Here's what actaully happened because of Covid. ATL was switched from Skywest to Endeavor. Flights were cut to 3 and sometimes 2 but CRJ200's were upgraded to CRJ900's. the 4 CRJ200's to DTW were replaced with 1 Skywest CRJ900. A DTW net loss of 130 seats. When the lone MSP flight was resumed it was upgraded to a CRJ900. The afternoon CRJ200 to MSP was never resumed. A MSP net loss of 30 seats. The longrange plans Pre Covid also was to upgrade the Morning flight to ATL to a B717 Mainline with the return in the late evening. Now anything goes as DL moved Skywest into ATL and the CRJ900's that were suppose to return in those runs have not so passengers are stuck in the miserable CRJ200's for those ATL flights while AA connect passengers on their 2 daily CRJ700 or CRJ900 flight through CLT and that route is taking over from ATL as the number 2 destination out of the city. So you are right. Right now DL doesn't have any answers in the Midwest and the DTW and MSP hubs are floundering. Plus they are losing market share to AA.
freakyrat wrote:AT SBN they are moving the Delta Connection flights to ATL back to Skywest from Endeavor so there goes the CRJ900's they were going to operate this summer on the route.
dstblj52 wrote:panam330 wrote:DL757NYC wrote:Delta had planned on the pandemic to be a protracted recovery.
Everyone did; it's not an excuse for overscheduling your resources. Certain other airlines (like AS and B6) are also doing it, and we're currently seeing the results of that now with big frequency pulldowns and route cuts. AA and UA seem to be having better luck with their staffing, it seems. Certainly not great, but better than DL has been of late.
Delta slashed and burned fleets in their entirity putting way heavier requirements on training they still have pilots on md-88 and 777 that havent been moved over yet
bhmdiversion wrote:freakyrat wrote:AT SBN they are moving the Delta Connection flights to ATL back to Skywest from Endeavor so there goes the CRJ900's they were going to operate this summer on the route.
SBN is a maintenance facility at SBN so these are scheduled operator swaps into/out of SBN.
WidebodyPTV wrote:I think DL could rectify the situation by flying three daily 717 to ATL and two daily A220 to SLC, ending service to DTW & MSP.
usflyer msp wrote:I've noticed this as well. It started during peak COVID when AA maintained a greatly reduced but still functional schedule focused on DFW and CLT while DL basically went into hibernation and required 4 hour layovers and three segments to get to many smaller cities. Alot of DL outstation loyalists that still needed to travel during that time switched from DL to AA due to schedule and have not looked back. Everytime DL reduces their schedule in these outstations they lose more FF and it has sort of become a death spiral.
jetawayusa wrote:I usually just read what everyone else has to say and not comment... but i read thru this entire thread so far and the funniest part is somehow SBN is like the most important part of Delta's entire success or demise. Aside from some football games in SBN...what else and why else is it so important in Delta's network or anyone else's network. SMH
N965UW wrote:dstblj52 wrote:panam330 wrote:Everyone did; it's not an excuse for overscheduling your resources. Certain other airlines (like AS and B6) are also doing it, and we're currently seeing the results of that now with big frequency pulldowns and route cuts. AA and UA seem to be having better luck with their staffing, it seems. Certainly not great, but better than DL has been of late.
Delta slashed and burned fleets in their entirity putting way heavier requirements on training they still have pilots on md-88 and 777 that havent been moved over yet
Nobody slashed and burned fleets more than AA (A330, 757, 767, CRJ-200, E190) yet they're not the ones looking to cut 100+ flights a day. Parking the airplanes didn't help but something bigger is going on at DL. For whatever reason it's their turn to have a meltdown and hopefully it resolves sooner rather than later.
jetawayusa wrote:I usually just read what everyone else has to say and not comment... but i read thru this entire thread so far and the funniest part is somehow SBN is like the most important part of Delta's entire success or demise. Aside from some football games in SBN...what else and why else is it so important in Delta's network or anyone else's network. SMH
usflyer msp wrote:N965UW wrote:dstblj52 wrote:Delta slashed and burned fleets in their entirity putting way heavier requirements on training they still have pilots on md-88 and 777 that havent been moved over yet
Nobody slashed and burned fleets more than AA (A330, 757, 767, CRJ-200, E190) yet they're not the ones looking to cut 100+ flights a day. Parking the airplanes didn't help but something bigger is going on at DL. For whatever reason it's their turn to have a meltdown and hopefully it resolves sooner rather than later.
I think AA's fleet simplification helped them with pilot training. Many of the pilots AA is hiring are coming from ULCC's and foreign carriers and are already rated on 737's and A320's so there is less training needed. DL's new pilots are going on A220's and 717's - types few others fly - so they have to train them from scratch on the aircraft and it takes more time.
crazyjaydawg wrote:usflyer msp wrote:N965UW wrote:
Nobody slashed and burned fleets more than AA (A330, 757, 767, CRJ-200, E190) yet they're not the ones looking to cut 100+ flights a day. Parking the airplanes didn't help but something bigger is going on at DL. For whatever reason it's their turn to have a meltdown and hopefully it resolves sooner rather than later.
I think AA's fleet simplification helped them with pilot training. Many of the pilots AA is hiring are coming from ULCC's and foreign carriers and are already rated on 737's and A320's so there is less training needed. DL's new pilots are going on A220's and 717's - types few others fly - so they have to train them from scratch on the aircraft and it takes more time.
That is not at all true.
A previously rated A320 or 737 pilot gets to save about 5 minutes of IACARA paperwork, that’s it.
Any new hire at any airline in the U.S. goes through the same exact training program at said airline regardless of prior experience.
N965UW wrote:dstblj52 wrote:panam330 wrote:Everyone did; it's not an excuse for overscheduling your resources. Certain other airlines (like AS and B6) are also doing it, and we're currently seeing the results of that now with big frequency pulldowns and route cuts. AA and UA seem to be having better luck with their staffing, it seems. Certainly not great, but better than DL has been of late.
Delta slashed and burned fleets in their entirity putting way heavier requirements on training they still have pilots on md-88 and 777 that havent been moved over yet
Nobody slashed and burned fleets more than AA (A330, 757, 767, CRJ-200, E190) yet they're not the ones looking to cut 100+ flights a day. Parking the airplanes didn't help but something bigger is going on at DL. For whatever reason it's their turn to have a meltdown and hopefully it resolves sooner rather than later.
usflyer msp wrote:N965UW wrote:dstblj52 wrote:Delta slashed and burned fleets in their entirity putting way heavier requirements on training they still have pilots on md-88 and 777 that havent been moved over yet
Nobody slashed and burned fleets more than AA (A330, 757, 767, CRJ-200, E190) yet they're not the ones looking to cut 100+ flights a day. Parking the airplanes didn't help but something bigger is going on at DL. For whatever reason it's their turn to have a meltdown and hopefully it resolves sooner rather than later.
I think AA's fleet simplification helped them with pilot training. Many of the pilots AA is hiring are coming from ULCC's and foreign carriers and are already rated on 737's and A320's so there is less training needed. DL's new pilots are going on A220's and 717's - types few others fly - so they have to train them from scratch on the aircraft and it takes more time.
N965UW wrote:dstblj52 wrote:panam330 wrote:Everyone did; it's not an excuse for overscheduling your resources. Certain other airlines (like AS and B6) are also doing it, and we're currently seeing the results of that now with big frequency pulldowns and route cuts. AA and UA seem to be having better luck with their staffing, it seems. Certainly not great, but better than DL has been of late.
Delta slashed and burned fleets in their entirity putting way heavier requirements on training they still have pilots on md-88 and 777 that havent been moved over yet
Nobody slashed and burned fleets more than AA (A330, 757, 767, CRJ-200, E190) yet they're not the ones looking to cut 100+ flights a day. Parking the airplanes didn't help but something bigger is going on at DL. For whatever reason it's their turn to have a meltdown and hopefully it resolves sooner rather than later.
Cactusjuba wrote:Lots of guessing as to what is going on here. I'll help.
TL:DR: too ambitious of a schedule with inadequate staffing buffers.
Expanded answer:
Delta doesn't have enough pilot staffing to operate the schedule with the reliability it's known for.
alfa164 wrote:jetawayusa wrote:I usually just read what everyone else has to say and not comment... but i read thru this entire thread so far and the funniest part is somehow SBN is like the most important part of Delta's entire success or demise. Aside from some football games in SBN...what else and why else is it so important in Delta's network or anyone else's network. SMH
I think we need to start a new topic: "Can Delta survive without being the biggest airline in South Bend?' ...
WesternDC6B wrote:alfa164 wrote:jetawayusa wrote:I usually just read what everyone else has to say and not comment... but i read thru this entire thread so far and the funniest part is somehow SBN is like the most important part of Delta's entire success or demise. Aside from some football games in SBN...what else and why else is it so important in Delta's network or anyone else's network. SMH
I think we need to start a new topic: "Can Delta survive without being the biggest airline in South Bend?' ...
Don't joke! The business traffic to the Studebaker plant alone is reason to provide plenty of frequency.