Delta Network Thread - 2022

qf789 · Fri Dec 31, 2021 1:25 pm

Welcome to the Delta Network Thread - 2022. Please continue to add your comments below

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viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1456275

rjbesikof · Sat Jan 01, 2022 6:11 pm

Set to launch this year:
1) PDX-ICN
2) BOS-ATH/TLV
3) JFK-ARN
What I hope to see:
1) More intl routes from BOS
2) DL finally adding flights from MIA due to the LATAM JV.

MIflyer12 · Sat Jan 01, 2022 7:14 pm

Can anybody point to meaningful traffic volumes between CVG and LATAM's hub destinations? IMHO it can't be in the top 30 U.S. origin airports for such traffic. DL could stimullate SoFla vacationer demand with cheap fares to MIA but that's not really DL's game.

jplatts · Sat Jan 01, 2022 7:36 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Can anybody point to meaningful traffic volumes between CVG and LATAM's hub destinations? IMHO it can't be in the top 30 U.S. origin airports for such traffic. DL could stimullate SoFla vacationer demand with cheap fares to MIA but that's not really DL's game.

The main reasons why I asked the question regarding the possible return of DL CVG-MIA nonstop service were
(a) CVG-MIA O&D,
(b) the domestic adds that AA, WN, AS, B6, F9, and NK have recently made out of MIA,
(c) the FF base that DL has in the CVG market, and
(d) DL having served MIA nonstop from CVG back when DL had a hub at CVG.

DL does not have a need to connect passengers onto JJ/LA/LP flights out of MIA from CVG with DL already having 1-stop connecting service to BOG, LIM, SCL, and GRU from CVG through ATL.

umichman · Sat Jan 01, 2022 8:14 pm

jplatts wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Can anybody point to meaningful traffic volumes between CVG and LATAM's hub destinations? IMHO it can't be in the top 30 U.S. origin airports for such traffic. DL could stimullate SoFla vacationer demand with cheap fares to MIA but that's not really DL's game.

The main reasons why I asked the question regarding the possible return of DL CVG-MIA nonstop service were
(a) CVG-MIA O&D,

I suspect DL will be content to serve that with CVG-FLL flight. DL recently punted on return of CVG-BWI/PHL flights and has continued to push back CVG-SFO/ORD/DFW restarts (now scheduled for September). I don't see them bringing back CVG-MIA since route was dropped pre-Covid.

a320flyer · Sat Jan 01, 2022 11:38 pm

umichman wrote:
jplatts wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Can anybody point to meaningful traffic volumes between CVG and LATAM's hub destinations? IMHO it can't be in the top 30 U.S. origin airports for such traffic. DL could stimullate SoFla vacationer demand with cheap fares to MIA but that's not really DL's game.

The main reasons why I asked the question regarding the possible return of DL CVG-MIA nonstop service were
(a) CVG-MIA O&D,

I suspect DL will be content to serve that with CVG-FLL flight. DL recently punted on return of CVG-BWI/PHL flights and has continued to push back CVG-SFO/ORD/DFW restarts (now scheduled for September). I don't see them bringing back CVG-MIA since route was dropped pre-Covid.

CVG-MIA was dropped in 2012, hasn’t been operated in a decade at this point.

deltairlines · Sun Jan 02, 2022 1:57 am

jplatts wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Can anybody point to meaningful traffic volumes between CVG and LATAM's hub destinations? IMHO it can't be in the top 30 U.S. origin airports for such traffic. DL could stimullate SoFla vacationer demand with cheap fares to MIA but that's not really DL's game.

The main reasons why I asked the question regarding the possible return of DL CVG-MIA nonstop service were
(a) CVG-MIA O&D,
(b) the domestic adds that AA, WN, AS, B6, F9, and NK have recently made out of MIA,
(c) the FF base that DL has in the CVG market, and
(d) DL having served MIA nonstop from CVG back when DL had a hub at CVG.

DL does not have a need to connect passengers onto JJ/LA/LP flights out of MIA from CVG with DL already having 1-stop connecting service to BOG, LIM, SCL, and GRU from CVG through ATL.

This is the right answer - everything can be reached just as quickly over ATL. Not until if/when Latam starts bringing back some of the secondary destinations from MIA would I think DL even consider adding domestic feeders into MIA. Even LAX at this point makes no sense for Delta from MIA; they have FLL-LAX for those in the SoFla market that want the nonstop and you'd be going against AA with a token frequency vs their high frequency. B6 at least has Mint on LAX-MIA and the fact that AA frequent flyers can still earn miles on the B6 flight.

stlgph · Tue Jan 04, 2022 1:10 am

Service resumes Detroit - Bloomington/Normal on Feb. 6.

https://www.centralillinoisproud.com/ne ... t-at-cira/

n9801f · Wed Jan 05, 2022 7:01 pm

There is a rumor on another thread that Scott Laurence is joining Delta.

Anyone know if this is true?

Scott was previously Head of Network and a few other functions at jetBlue.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1468495

alfa164 · Wed Jan 05, 2022 7:07 pm

n9801f wrote:
There is a rumor on another thread that Scott Laurence is joining Delta. Anyone know if this is true? Scott was previously Head of Network and a few other functions at jetBlue.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1468495

Interesting... I am sure Glen Hauenstein is just about ready to retire. The timing would be perfect.

panamair · Wed Jan 05, 2022 9:35 pm

alfa164 wrote:
n9801f wrote:
There is a rumor on another thread that Scott Laurence is joining Delta. Anyone know if this is true? Scott was previously Head of Network and a few other functions at jetBlue.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1468495

Interesting... I am sure Glen Hauenstein is just about ready to retire. The timing would be perfect.

Glen has been President of Delta since 2016; he hasn’t headed up just Network for a while now; even before becoming President, he was the Chief Revenue Officer and was in charge of more than just Network Planning

LAXintl · Mon Jan 10, 2022 6:48 pm

Now confirmed. Former JetBlue Scott Laurence is new VP Network Planning beginning Jan. 18.

https://news.delta.com/delta-welcomes-s ... k-planning

jbs2886 · Mon Jan 10, 2022 7:08 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Now confirmed. Former JetBlue Scott Laurence is new VP Network Planning beginning Jan. 18.

https://news.delta.com/delta-welcomes-s ... k-planning

Well, one way to combat the NE Alliance is to hire the person that designed it: "Most recently, he spearheaded and executed the strategic partnership between JetBlue and American Airlines that includes a codeshare flight agreement and loyalty benefits integration." I think this is pretty good for the Northeast, but I'm sure he has some ideas for the West Coast.

Abeam79 · Mon Jan 10, 2022 7:30 pm

Again, he is taking a lower position he had at jetblue. So it’s not like SL is calling all the shots as he did with JB

jbs2886 · Mon Jan 10, 2022 7:33 pm

Abeam79 wrote:
Again, he is taking a lower position he had at jetblue. So it’s not like SL is calling all the shots as he did with JB

It doesn't matter if he is calling the shots, its certainly a win for DL to have his knowledge.

PSU.DTW.SCE · Mon Jan 10, 2022 7:43 pm

.....well much bigger and complex network at DL, much more opportunity for upward trajectory, and probably bringing him in for succession planning in senior leadership position.

n9801f · Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:14 pm

New, outside blood might really benefit Delta, whose management is comprised heavily of long-time insiders. Newcomers and outsiders can often see important things old-timers can't or won't. He's had experiences and gained insights far beyond the scope of Delta.

Additionally Laurence brings the valuable new perspectives of being the market underdog and an LCC. He's developed in creative, entrepreneurial environments.

The turmoil of the pandemic could create opportunities. Laurence will have a clue how to seize them.

IMO Delta would be wise to let him really shake things up.

rjbesikof · Tue Jan 11, 2022 12:17 am

DL just pulled nonstop PKX/PVG flights through NS22. DL's China flights (SEA/DTW-PVG) will continue with the tech stop through ICN.
https://simpleflying.com/delta-pulls-do ... a-service/

AmericanAir88 · Wed Jan 12, 2022 4:36 am

Has April 2022 been updated yet?

AC4500 · Wed Jan 12, 2022 7:05 am

AmericanAir88 wrote:
Has April 2022 been updated yet?

I believe it's currently updated through May 4th.

rjbesikof · Wed Jan 12, 2022 7:24 am

Looks like BOS-CDG resumes in March

AmericanAir88 · Wed Jan 12, 2022 9:02 pm

AC4500 wrote:
AmericanAir88 wrote:
Has April 2022 been updated yet?

I believe it's currently updated through May 4th.

Thank you. April seemed above the usual.

socaljoeyb · Wed Jan 12, 2022 9:25 pm

Will Delta keep the 757/767s on the West coast -ATL routes in the summer? Flew my first 767 to and from ATL and enjoyed it, but thought they might be better used to Europe. I wonder if the yield is enough to keep them on the routes permanently between international turns.

jbs2886 · Wed Jan 12, 2022 9:30 pm

socaljoeyb wrote:
Will Delta keep the 757/767s on the West coast -ATL routes in the summer? Flew my first 767 to and from ATL and enjoyed it, but thought they might be better used to Europe. I wonder if the yield is enough to keep them on the routes permanently between international turns.

Well US-Europe demand is still subdued, but domestic demand is not (to the same extent, if at all in some cases).

dtwpilot225 · Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:48 am

It’s interesting how they are using the 350 with no Asia
It seems through dtw the 350 is going 3 ams this summer and cdg as well
The 330 which also has a pilot base is only going to do 1 flight to fra this summer
They were supposed to do pkx as well on the 330-900 ombut that just got the axe until October

WidebodyPTV · Thu Jan 13, 2022 5:45 am

AmericanAir88 wrote:
AC4500 wrote:
AmericanAir88 wrote:
Has April 2022 been updated yet?

I believe it's currently updated through May 4th.

Thank you. April seemed above the usual.

Its not final. DL makes changes until shorty before they go out for bid. In late December, I booked a flight for early March and noticed the other day the equipment changed.

MIflyer12 · Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:49 pm

socaljoeyb wrote:
Will Delta keep the 757/767s on the West coast -ATL routes in the summer? Flew my first 767 to and from ATL and enjoyed it, but thought they might be better used to Europe. I wonder if the yield is enough to keep them on the routes permanently between international turns.

The earnings release came out today. (Ugh - more equity writedowns and mark-to-market adjustments on investments.) They mentioned revenue recovery 4Q21 vs. 4Q19 by geography:

Domestic 78%

Atlantic 47%

Latin America 80%

Pacific 19%

They also cited change in yields by region if you're interested.

It's pretty clear for 4Q21 -- if uncertain going forward - there was little reason for heavy use of the A350 fleet on TPAC routes, or 767s to Europe. It's pushing on a rope.

SEC 10-Q filing for 4Q21 earnings: https://s2.q4cdn.com/181345880/files/do ... -Final.pdf

bomber996 · Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:26 pm

How many flights to Asia are cargo only flights right now? Talked to an A350 out of DTW the other day and they said they were only carrying boxes in the back.

Peace :box:

kavok · Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:31 pm

bomber996 wrote:
How many flights to Asia are cargo only flights right now? Talked to an A350 out of DTW the other day and they said they were only carrying boxes in the back.

Peace

Breaking down the Asia routes PreCovid vs Currently:

China: 6 routes existed PreCovid (PVG-ATL,DTW,LAX,SEA & PEK-DTW,SEA). Of the 6, 2 have returned (PVG-DTW,SEA), albeit sporadically, often with a technical stop in ICN. This has more to do with Covid restrictions than passenger demand.

Tokyo: 7 routes existed PreCovid. 4 of 7 are flying currently (ATL, DTW, LAX, SEA), with the other three scheduled to resume at the end of March (HNL, MSP, PDX). Obviously some of the routes moved from NRT to HND.

Seoul: 3 of 4 Delta routes have resumed (ATL, DTW, SEA). MSP is still postponed. A new 5th route (PDX) is also scheduled to begin later this year. Also, KE is still flying a DL codeshare as well to LAX, JFK, etc.

DTW-NGO is operating currently, albeit with reduced frequency.

The other big reductions have been Hawaii-Japan. None of the PreCovid routes have returned, and only HNL-HND is on the schedule to relaunch (in late March).

Prost · Thu Jan 13, 2022 5:20 pm

All of the current Shanghai flights are via Incheon, and all of the Tokyo flights are now in Haneda.

jbs2886 · Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:10 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
SEC 10-Q filing for 4Q21 earnings: https://s2.q4cdn.com/181345880/files/do ... -Final.pdf

FYI, this is just the earnings release, it is not a 10-Q. There won't be a 10-Q for 4Q21 because it is part of the 10-K. DL typically doesn't post the 10-Q/K until a few days after earnings, which will have A LOT more info than just the release.

MIflyer12 · Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:01 pm

I am corrected. I had looked at the Earnings Release in the time before the 8-K filing was up, which is just a paste of the earnings release.

FSDan · Fri Jan 14, 2022 4:37 am

kavok wrote:
Tokyo: 7 routes existed PreCovid. 4 of 7 are flying currently (ATL, DTW, LAX, SEA)

I'm not seeing LAX-HND on the schedules for March.

dtwpilot225 · Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:11 pm

Detroit Beijing was supposed to be 330-900 in April - don’t see it anymore

MIflyer12 · Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:25 pm

dtwpilot225 wrote:
Detroit Beijing was supposed to be 330-900 in April - don’t see it anymore

It's in the schedule as an A350 starting November 13 -- which is far enough away to mean nothing, really.

PSU.DTW.SCE · Fri Jan 14, 2022 2:36 pm

As posted upthread, due to China's closed border and covid-zero policies, DL has pulled any additional China flying until November 2022.

2x weekly DTW-ICN-PVG (A359)
2x weekly SEA-ICN-PVG (A339)

Until (at least) November.

kavok · Fri Jan 14, 2022 6:27 pm

FSDan wrote:
kavok wrote:
Tokyo: 7 routes existed PreCovid. 4 of 7 are flying currently (ATL, DTW, LAX, SEA)

I'm not seeing LAX-HND on the schedules for March.

You are correct, I see now LAX-HND has now been suspended until March, and resumes daily at the end of that month (when HND-PDX/HNL/MSP are scheduled to also resume). I didn’t realize that LAX-HND resumption had been pushed back until then, as it was previously scheduled to resume earlier.

Gillbilly · Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:00 am

For Delta's pilot base in Boston, does anyone know what types (75/767, A320 series, etc.) are part of that pilot group?

Apologies if this is easily found somewhere public.

24Whiskey · Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:18 am

Gillbilly wrote:
For Delta's pilot base in Boston, does anyone know what types (75/767, A320 series, etc.) are part of that pilot group?

Apologies if this is easily found somewhere public.

BOS isn’t a pilot domicile.

…yet.

RobertS975 · Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:59 am

n9801f wrote:
New, outside blood might really benefit Delta, whose management is comprised heavily of long-time insiders. Newcomers and outsiders can often see important things old-timers can't or won't. He's had experiences and gained insights far beyond the scope of Delta.

Additionally Laurence brings the valuable new perspectives of being the market underdog and an LCC. He's developed in creative, entrepreneurial environments.

The turmoil of the pandemic could create opportunities. Laurence will have a clue how to seize them.

IMO Delta would be wise to let him really shake things up.

Why do people still consider B6 to be a LCC. It is not!

PSU.DTW.SCE · Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:34 am

BOS is not a pilot base as said.
Strong rumor / possibility they may see an A32x base at some point down the road

dtwpilot225 · Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:50 am

This COVID has made it hard on Dtw 330 base
I think cause they need to utilize the 350 the 330 is doing almost nothing out of dtw this summer, I think they have one daily flight to fra if that even happens and that’s it
The 350
Is going to do ams and cdg
And the 767-400 which doesn’t even have a pilot base in dtw is doing lhr and muc
It must be really hard for delta network and planners to plan anything right now

kavok · Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:04 pm

dtwpilot225 wrote:
This COVID has made it hard on Dtw 330 base
I think cause they need to utilize the 350 the 330 is doing almost nothing out of dtw this summer, I think they have one daily flight to fra if that even happens and that’s it
The 350 Is going to do ams and cdg And the 767-400 which doesn’t even have a pilot base in dtw is doing lhr and muc
It must be really hard for delta network and planners to plan anything right now

I was surprised to see the 764 and not a 330 on DTW-MUC for that reason, but demand must be necessitating it. I do understand the 350s on AMS/CDG, as those couple well with the TPAC flights in terms of block time.

I was also hoping DL might try a 330 on DTW-HNL again, or some additional domestic flying to ATL/LAX to get those 330 pilots some more local work. Not sure where else they could go. ANC seems to have too much capacity right now. It’s also is getting late in the season for any new TATL 2022 schedule adds, but hopefully the 330 could come back on DTW-FCO in summer 2023.

OptimusPrime315 · Mon Jan 17, 2022 7:14 pm

Philippines just announced that they will be allowing entry of fully vaxxed foreigners starting Feb. 16. When does DL start up ICN-MNL again?

https://www.pna.gov.ph/articles/1165425

AC4500 · Mon Jan 17, 2022 8:12 pm

OptimusPrime315 wrote:
Philippines just announced that they will be allowing entry of fully vaxxed foreigners starting Feb. 16. When does DL start up ICN-MNL again?

https://www.pna.gov.ph/articles/1165425

I don't believe DL currently has any plans to restart ICN-MNL.

Aceskywalker · Tue Jan 18, 2022 7:08 am

OptimusPrime315 wrote:
Philippines just announced that they will be allowing entry of fully vaxxed foreigners starting Feb. 16. When does DL start up ICN-MNL again?

https://www.pna.gov.ph/articles/1165425

It has been a few long years, but I recall the reason for ICN-MNL on DL metal in the first place was for the KE-DL partnership to get around some kind of cap. Passenger numbers / frequencies aren't going to be approaching pre-pandemic levels on that route (and non-domestic APAC flights in general) anytime soon.

The chances of ICN-MNL on DL metal reappearing is extremely low.
The chances of MNL-USA on US3 metal (beyond UA's routing from GUM) is approaching zero for reasons that have been hashed out many, many times on other threads.

kavok · Tue Jan 18, 2022 4:05 pm

Aceskywalker wrote:
OptimusPrime315 wrote:
Philippines just announced that they will be allowing entry of fully vaxxed foreigners starting Feb. 16. When does DL start up ICN-MNL again?

https://www.pna.gov.ph/articles/1165425

It has been a few long years, but I recall the reason for ICN-MNL on DL metal in the first place was for the KE-DL partnership to get around some kind of cap. Passenger numbers / frequencies aren't going to be approaching pre-pandemic levels on that route (and non-domestic APAC flights in general) anytime soon.

The chances of ICN-MNL on DL metal reappearing is extremely low.
The chances of MNL-USA on US3 metal (beyond UA's routing from GUM) is approaching zero for reasons that have been hashed out many, many times on other threads.

This is correct. KE was only allowed two flights on MNL-ICN. PreCovid, passenger demand was high enough that a third ICN-MNL flight was desirable, and thus to get around the 2x KE cap, DL was going to fly it using their own metal (in addition to the 2x by KE). As mentioned, the pax demand now does not make it worth it for DL to fly it.

Further, MNL is constructing a new airport, scheduled for completion in 2026. With the new airport, and assumed increased capacity, I suspect the KE 2x cap may go away as capacity limits may no longer be needed. Thus it is very possible DL never flies ICN-MNL, unless demand significantly picks up between now and the new MNL airport opening.

rjbesikof · Mon Jan 24, 2022 5:46 pm

Did they load March?

rjbesikof · Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:42 am

Effective 4/9/2022, DL is adding a 2nd daily SEA-AMS.

ANA787 · Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:51 am

rjbesikof wrote:
Effective 4/9/2022, DL is adding a 2nd daily SEA-AMS.

Pre-covid there was always an additional SEA-AMS in the summer/spring. Glad to see it back now.

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