Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
rjbesikof wrote:Also in this weekend's update:
MCO-AMS removed for NW22.
TropicalSky wrote:Is This DAL first trip with the A350 to S. America? Knew they planned to use the ones without DELTA1 seating but this aircraft has those seats installed
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N50 ... /KATL/SCEL
TropicalSky wrote:Is This DAL first trip with the A350 to S. America? Knew they planned to use the ones without DELTA1 seating but this aircraft has those seats installed
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N50 ... /KATL/SCEL
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:He kind of does have a point….. in September there are 5x MSP-DTW flights and 4x DTW-BUF (all 717) yet there is only one viable and bookabrl connection over DTW that doesn’t end up either under the 30 minute MCT or a 4 hour layover.
kavok wrote:The new LGA facility is very nice. Great SkyClub. Nice architecture. A million times better than the terminal it replaced (is replacing). Which is great, for the times I am flying DL to and from NYC.
But the part the DL network planners don’t seem to understand is… no matter how much nicer that LGA terminal is now, I still don’t want to connect there. I didn’t like connecting in LGA before because NYC airspace is notoriously congested. A butterfly farts, and that alone creates enough delays to result in a missed connection. It is also geographically not convenient for most domestic connections anyway. So even though the old terminal was awful (and it was), it wasn’t the terminal quality that made LGA a poor connecting point.
But for whatever reason, when trying to book DL, they keep pushing flight connections in LGA (and sometimes ATL), while desired connection opportunities in DTW/MSP are now very hard to find. And so as a “road warrior”, I find myself connecting through ORD on another carrier.
The DTW & MSP terminals are nice, but more importantly they are reliable and better geographically positioned for flying east-west domestically. ORD is geographically well positioned too. And while still behind DTW/MSP, ORD reliability has gotten better.
Point being, if the option is connect through DTW or MSP vs ORD, I am probably still flying DL. If however the option is LGA vs ORD, here I come AA/UA.
MLIAA wrote:Question from a DL outsider here: Does Delta have a vision for the future?
United is investing in the customer experience by enhancing IFE and service offerings on current fleet, along with an enormous growth-minded 737MAX purchase. They’re growing DEN and IAH, while strengthening ORD and EWR.
AA is instead investing in their network, growing in exploding cities like AUS, BNA and TPA, while strengthening juggernaut hubs in DFW and CLT. For a while AA had more departures at DFW than DL did at ATL.
What is Delta doing? What is the strategy going forward?
sea13 wrote:I think going forward ATL and SLC is where most of the growth and connection opportunities will happen. DTW and MSP will still serve a purpose but not get the attention that ATL and SLC will receive. SEA, LAX, BOS, JFK I think will serve as mostly O&D airports for DL but still offer minimum connections, especially onto international flights of their own and their partner airlines. LGA should simply serve as a domestic O&D airport for DL in their network.
Someone a few comments back asked the question what is DL’s plan going forward. I always thought AUS would be a great opportunity especially when they announced it as a “focus city”. I think most of us here didn’t understand that the “focus” on AUS would be coming from additional frequencies to/from the DL hubs, the SkyClub, building local brand loyalty, and growth from its international partners (AM, VS, KL). Other than the continued growth and focus on RDU I think the only place DL could grow (and it would still be limited) would be MIA. Not sure what the status of DL’s partnership is with LATAM but maybe offer out of the box routes to align with their schedule such as LAS, SAN, BNA, DCA, SDF, IND, PIT, etc. to MIA.
rjbesikof wrote:DL will be putting the A321NEO on SEA-OGG from 9/6/2022 to 10/5/2022 6 times a week.
https://aeroroutes.com/eng/220612-dlsep22ogg
chrisnh wrote:I thought DL set up the TLV and ATH flights to BOS on different days of the week. But today they’re both operating.
rjbesikof wrote:DL will be putting the A321NEO on SEA-OGG from 9/6/2022 to 10/5/2022 6 times a week.
https://aeroroutes.com/eng/220612-dlsep22ogg
CV880 wrote:rjbesikof wrote:DL will be putting the A321NEO on SEA-OGG from 9/6/2022 to 10/5/2022 6 times a week.
https://aeroroutes.com/eng/220612-dlsep22ogg
We in the Bay Area don't want to fly to Hawaii via SEA or LAX. What has happened to the 3 Airlines called WA, NW & DL who collectively all had service from SFO-HNL before the mergers?
maximairways wrote:DL adding BDL-LGA starting September 6th. 3x daily on a CR9.
https://thepointsguy.com/news/laguardia ... est-route/
JFK would've been better for international options. But this helps for Northeast centric connections.
sxf24 wrote:maximairways wrote:DL adding BDL-LGA starting September 6th. 3x daily on a CR9.
https://thepointsguy.com/news/laguardia ... est-route/
JFK would've been better for international options. But this helps for Northeast centric connections.
This is an egregious example of slot squatting. No higher yielding passengers in BDL wants to do domestic connections through LGA.
sxf24 wrote:maximairways wrote:DL adding BDL-LGA starting September 6th. 3x daily on a CR9.
https://thepointsguy.com/news/laguardia ... est-route/
JFK would've been better for international options. But this helps for Northeast centric connections.
This is an egregious example of slot squatting. No higher yielding passengers in BDL wants to do domestic connections through LGA.
sea13 wrote:SJC might be an option for DL growth and maybe a focus city down the road. I think it was listed back around 2019 along with BNA, RDU, and AUS. DL adding SJC-Hawaii, AUS, JFK LAS, BOS, might be a good start.
MLIAA wrote:Question from a DL outsider here: Does Delta have a vision for the future?
United is investing in the customer experience by enhancing IFE and service offerings on current fleet, along with an enormous growth-minded 737MAX purchase. They’re growing DEN and IAH, while strengthening ORD and EWR.
AA is instead investing in their network, growing in exploding cities like AUS, BNA and TPA, while strengthening juggernaut hubs in DFW and CLT. For a while AA had more departures at DFW than DL did at ATL.
What is Delta doing? What is the strategy going forward?
Runway765 wrote:DL dropped the ball with AUS, they should’ve made it a hub. Now it’s too late and AA/WN are taking the field there.
USAirALB wrote:sxf24 wrote:maximairways wrote:DL adding BDL-LGA starting September 6th. 3x daily on a CR9.
https://thepointsguy.com/news/laguardia ... est-route/
JFK would've been better for international options. But this helps for Northeast centric connections.
This is an egregious example of slot squatting. No higher yielding passengers in BDL wants to do domestic connections through LGA.
They similarly added ALB-LGA earlier this year, and even added a mainline frequency (A319) onto the route in earlier this Spring...most flights went out with less than 20 passengers on them.
24Whiskey wrote:Runway765 wrote:DL dropped the ball with AUS, they should’ve made it a hub. Now it’s too late and AA/WN are taking the field there.
If you look at the departure board in AUS on any given day it isn’t DL dropping the ball…
They seem to be happy growing AUS from the international side with VS and KL.
sea13 wrote:I do think that AUS could add a few destinations such as LAS, SAN, and maybe SJC to feed into international connections. Other than what DL and its partners have right now in AUS, I think they are happy.
USAirALB wrote:sxf24 wrote:maximairways wrote:DL adding BDL-LGA starting September 6th. 3x daily on a CR9.
https://thepointsguy.com/news/laguardia ... est-route/
JFK would've been better for international options. But this helps for Northeast centric connections.
This is an egregious example of slot squatting. No higher yielding passengers in BDL wants to do domestic connections through LGA.
They similarly added ALB-LGA earlier this year, and even added a mainline frequency (A319) onto the route in earlier this Spring...most flights went out with less than 20 passengers on them.
sea13 wrote:SJC might be an option for DL growth and maybe a focus city down the road. I think it was listed back around 2019 along with BNA, RDU, and AUS. DL adding SJC-Hawaii, AUS, JFK LAS, BOS, might be a good start.
umichman wrote:sea13 wrote:SJC might be an option for DL growth and maybe a focus city down the road. I think it was listed back around 2019 along with BNA, RDU, and AUS. DL adding SJC-Hawaii, AUS, JFK LAS, BOS, might be a good start.
They officially dropped SJC and BNA as focus cities in 2021 -- https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta-a ... ation.html
maximairways wrote:sxf24 wrote:maximairways wrote:DL adding BDL-LGA starting September 6th. 3x daily on a CR9.
https://thepointsguy.com/news/laguardia ... est-route/
JFK would've been better for international options. But this helps for Northeast centric connections.
This is an egregious example of slot squatting. No higher yielding passengers in BDL wants to do domestic connections through LGA.
As a BDL based traveller who does a fair amount of DL flying for work, I'll take LGA to connect to the Midwest or region north of Atlanta. Rather than trucking down to Atlanta and back up.
24Whiskey wrote:The focus city has really been more of an assault to Southwest’s share than crushing DL’s hopes and dreams.
sxf24 wrote:maximairways wrote:sxf24 wrote:
This is an egregious example of slot squatting. No higher yielding passengers in BDL wants to do domestic connections through LGA.
As a BDL based traveller who does a fair amount of DL flying for work, I'll take LGA to connect to the Midwest or region north of Atlanta. Rather than trucking down to Atlanta and back up.
Flying LGA-BDL, a market where O&D is served by a train, for connections is stupid on multiple fronts. First, using LGA for connections is bad for the customer experience due to relatively poor reliability. Second, operating flights this short where better ground alternatives exist is environmentally detrimental. DL should STFU about being green if they’re going to do stuff like this.
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:sxf24 wrote:maximairways wrote:
As a BDL based traveller who does a fair amount of DL flying for work, I'll take LGA to connect to the Midwest or region north of Atlanta. Rather than trucking down to Atlanta and back up.
Flying LGA-BDL, a market where O&D is served by a train, for connections is stupid on multiple fronts. First, using LGA for connections is bad for the customer experience due to relatively poor reliability. Second, operating flights this short where better ground alternatives exist is environmentally detrimental. DL should STFU about being green if they’re going to do stuff like this.
While LGA-BDL entirely smells like slot-squatting, and LGA is terrible for reliable connections it does give them a better ability to connecting markets from BDL along the East Coast.
As it is right now, DL from BDL means connecting over ATL or DTW, meaning not that great for anything inside of those hubs.
DL over LGA competes for connecting flows that UA is flowing over EWR & IAD and AA is flowing over PHL & DCA, and B6 over BOS.
dfwfanboy wrote:24Whiskey wrote:Aside from the whole Delta Austin focus city dream that was announced YEARS ago and still hasn't happened.The focus city has really been more of an assault to Southwest’s share than crushing DL’s hopes and dreams.
sxf24 wrote:PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:sxf24 wrote:
Flying LGA-BDL, a market where O&D is served by a train, for connections is stupid on multiple fronts. First, using LGA for connections is bad for the customer experience due to relatively poor reliability. Second, operating flights this short where better ground alternatives exist is environmentally detrimental. DL should STFU about being green if they’re going to do stuff like this.
While LGA-BDL entirely smells like slot-squatting, and LGA is terrible for reliable connections it does give them a better ability to connecting markets from BDL along the East Coast.
As it is right now, DL from BDL means connecting over ATL or DTW, meaning not that great for anything inside of those hubs.
DL over LGA competes for connecting flows that UA is flowing over EWR & IAD and AA is flowing over PHL & DCA, and B6 over BOS.
What meaningfully sized market is not served out of BDL that DL could be competitive with by offering connections through LGA?
Offering an alternative to other airline nonstops is not good justification to offer such a fuel-guzzling, 0 local pax route like this.
777Mech wrote:dfwfanboy wrote:24Whiskey wrote:Aside from the whole Delta Austin focus city dream that was announced YEARS ago and still hasn't happened.The focus city has really been more of an assault to Southwest’s share than crushing DL’s hopes and dreams.
With what gates can they grow? AUS is maxed out.
Runway765 wrote:
I wish they’d commit to one or the other with DTW/MSP. It would be nice to have one airport with better connecting options than splitting traffic and not having good connecting options at either.
DL dropped the ball with AUS, they should’ve made it a hub. Now it’s too late and AA/WN are taking the field there.
Runway765 wrote:DL dropped the ball with AUS, they should’ve made it a hub. Now it’s too late and AA/WN are taking the field there.
dfwfanboy wrote:24Whiskey wrote:The focus city has really been more of an assault to Southwest’s share than crushing DL’s hopes and dreams.
Aside from the whole Delta Austin focus city dream that was announced YEARS ago and still hasn't happened.
WidebodyPTV wrote:Runway765 wrote:DL dropped the ball with AUS, they should’ve made it a hub. Now it’s too late and AA/WN are taking the field there.dfwfanboy wrote:24Whiskey wrote:The focus city has really been more of an assault to Southwest’s share than crushing DL’s hopes and dreams.
Aside from the whole Delta Austin focus city dream that was announced YEARS ago and still hasn't happened.
<sigh> DL never announced an AUS focus city. An a.netter shared a job posting in which DL was seeking marketing professionals to lead ‘our Austin focus city.’ Verbiage… can have a much different meanings. Let me translate DL’s job posting for a.netters: ‘We’re looking to grow in Austin, and we’re seeking professionals to sell our brand.’ Just as many press releases today identify new nonstop service as “direct,” and hardcore traditional a.netters grow upset because “direct” once had a very different meaning than nonstop. Of course, these same people are equally upset when the news identifies a “Boeing 737 jet” instead of a “Boeing 737-8A8XLRWTWL jet” (yeah, I made that part up.)
DL never dropped the ball in building an AUS hub. They’re well behind AA & WN in market share; the second DL attempted to build up AUS, AA & WN would’ve flooded the market with capacity (as they’re doing now, anyway), killing any chance for DL to build up the market. An AUS hub was only possible in an a.net dream world.
CIDFlyer wrote:Completely agree. MSP and DTW both run less than 400 a day and in the 330ish range now. Combing one of them to bulk up would be best as much as I hate to see that. DTW is a beautiful facility but MSP is much more centrally located so it would probably get the nod. NW used to be about 500-600 a day at each. I hate seeing both so underutilized.
777Mech wrote:dfwfanboy wrote:24Whiskey wrote:Aside from the whole Delta Austin focus city dream that was announced YEARS ago and still hasn't happened.The focus city has really been more of an assault to Southwest’s share than crushing DL’s hopes and dreams.
With what gates can they grow? AUS is maxed out.
dfwfanboy wrote:WidebodyPTV wrote:Runway765 wrote:DL dropped the ball with AUS, they should’ve made it a hub. Now it’s too late and AA/WN are taking the field there.dfwfanboy wrote:Aside from the whole Delta Austin focus city dream that was announced YEARS ago and still hasn't happened.
<sigh> DL never announced an AUS focus city. An a.netter shared a job posting in which DL was seeking marketing professionals to lead ‘our Austin focus city.’ Verbiage… can have a much different meanings. Let me translate DL’s job posting for a.netters: ‘We’re looking to grow in Austin, and we’re seeking professionals to sell our brand.’ Just as many press releases today identify new nonstop service as “direct,” and hardcore traditional a.netters grow upset because “direct” once had a very different meaning than nonstop. Of course, these same people are equally upset when the news identifies a “Boeing 737 jet” instead of a “Boeing 737-8A8XLRWTWL jet” (yeah, I made that part up.)
DL never dropped the ball in building an AUS hub. They’re well behind AA & WN in market share; the second DL attempted to build up AUS, AA & WN would’ve flooded the market with capacity (as they’re doing now, anyway), killing any chance for DL to build up the market. An AUS hub was only possible in an a.net dream world.
Generally speaking, the President of Delta is a well-regarded source about Delta having or announcing focus cities. Delta definitely did announce and confirm Austin's place as a focus city.
https://www.bizjournals.com/austin/news ... tatus.html
Delta has also mentioned AUS as a focus city on plenty of other public company docs.