Happy new year to all! I hope 2022 will be a good year for all of us. Let us continue the airlines fleet and network updates over here.

Link to 2021 thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1456029&hilit=Emirates+network

So far several flights was disrupted due to the 5G on going issue ..
DXB-MCO
DXB-IAH
DXB-SFO
DXB-SEA
DXB-MIA

but there is a 77W on air now going to IAD from CPH
https://fr24.com/UAE9997/2a8a8ec8

xwb777 wrote:

Emirates to increase flights to daily to Orlando MCO for the period from 03JUL2022 to 31AUG2022.

When will that be reflected in the booking engine?

Conscious wiki isn’t always up to date - where would be the best source for future EK deliveries, and current fleet?

Planespotters.net
Always

UAEflyer wrote:

So far several flights was disrupted due to the 5G on going issue ..
DXB-MCO
DXB-IAH
DXB-SFO
DXB-SEA
DXB-MIA

but there is a 77W on air now going to IAD from CPH
https://fr24.com/UAE9997/2a8a8ec8

Re: DXB-IAH, FlightAware indicates that a 380 will be subbed tomorrow. If true, I imagine that's to accommodate those who were supposed to be on today's cancelled 77L flight to IAH (EK211).

https://www.emirates.com/us/english/hel ... ates/#4843

Emirates will operate the following flights to Boston (BOS), Houston (IAH), and San Francisco (SFO), utilising the Emirates A380 aircraft.

20 January 2022:
‑ EK237 from Dubai to Boston
‑ EK 225 from Dubai to San Francisco
‑ EK 211 from Dubai to Houston

21 January 2022:
‑ EK 238 from Boston to Dubai
‑ EK 226 from San Francisco to Dubai
‑ EK 212 from Houston to Dubai

johhn14 wrote:

https://www.emirates.com/us/english/help/travel-updates/#4843

Emirates will operate the following flights to Boston (BOS), Houston (IAH), and San Francisco (SFO), utilising the Emirates A380 aircraft.

20 January 2022:
‑ EK237 from Dubai to Boston
‑ EK 225 from Dubai to San Francisco
‑ EK 211 from Dubai to Houston

21 January 2022:
‑ EK 238 from Boston to Dubai
‑ EK 226 from San Francisco to Dubai
‑ EK 212 from Houston to Dubai

The issue is resolved, AT&T postponed the 5G coverage near the airports, why EK changed their airplanes while the cause is not there !!
at least an upgrade to the passengers
https://www.thenationalnews.com/busines ... -showdown/

UAEflyer wrote:

johhn14 wrote:

https://www.emirates.com/us/english/help/travel-updates/#4843

Emirates will operate the following flights to Boston (BOS), Houston (IAH), and San Francisco (SFO), utilising the Emirates A380 aircraft.

20 January 2022:
‑ EK237 from Dubai to Boston
‑ EK 225 from Dubai to San Francisco
‑ EK 211 from Dubai to Houston

21 January 2022:
‑ EK 238 from Boston to Dubai
‑ EK 226 from San Francisco to Dubai
‑ EK 212 from Houston to Dubai

The issue is resolved, AT&T postponed the 5G coverage near the airports, why EK changed their airplanes while the cause is not there !!
at least an upgrade to the passengers
https://www.thenationalnews.com/busines ... -showdown/

Also now FAA has approved 777 and 380 Ops to all affected stations - https://www.faa.gov/newsroom/faa-statements-5g

Was EK affected at all by yesterday's missile attacks targeting Abu Dhabi and Saudi Arabia? AUH suspended departures and arrivals for one hour before resuming. With DXB being only 72 mi away by bird I wonder if there was an impact.

My expat sister and her family, whose subdivision (Al Reef Villas) literally abuts AUH, slept through the whole thing.

Western727 wrote:

Was EK affected at all by yesterday's missile attacks targeting Abu Dhabi and Saudi Arabia? AUH suspended departures and arrivals for one hour before resuming. With DXB being only 72 mi away by bird I wonder if there was an impact.

My expat sister and her family, whose subdivision (Al Reef Villas) literally abuts AUH, slept through the whole thing.

Nothing at all , DXB was normal and all flights and passengers were as smooth as silk , the media always make things 100X the fact. The missiles targeted the US Air Force that is based out of AUH city, it was intercepted by them.
Hopefully it doesn’t happen again, but if it did, it would be like Saudi airports, they get these rockets every once in a while .

UAEflyer wrote:

Western727 wrote:

Was EK affected at all by yesterday's missile attacks targeting Abu Dhabi and Saudi Arabia? AUH suspended departures and arrivals for one hour before resuming. With DXB being only 72 mi away by bird I wonder if there was an impact.

My expat sister and her family, whose subdivision (Al Reef Villas) literally abuts AUH, slept through the whole thing.

Nothing at all , DXB was normal and all flights and passengers were as smooth as silk , the media always make things 100X the fact. The missiles targeted the US Air Force that is based out of AUH city, it was intercepted by them.
Hopefully it doesn’t happen again, but if it did, it would be like Saudi airports, they get these rockets every once in a while .

Good to know, thank you. Having family living next to AUH is a bit unnerving because there was some minor damage there in the first attack last week. My family had a fantastic time visiting them 2 months ago and I was pleased to see how safe the UAE is. Still, my sister has 4 children so I cannot help but be a little bit concerned about the family.

Emirates goes double A380s to Sydney starting from March 02.

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... 1644465521

Is all EK lounges world wide open ? (DXB excluded)

Has there been any indication if/when EK will return to Edinburgh?

mrkerr7474 wrote:

Has there been any indication if/when EK will return to Edinburgh?

Not as yet, I suspect it won't be before late this year at the earliest.

xwb777 wrote:

Emirates goes double A380s to Sydney starting from March 02.

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... 1644465521

With Australia opening up again for visitors, I'd expect EK and the other ME3 to expand operations there quite quickly.

TC957 wrote:

mrkerr7474 wrote:

Has there been any indication if/when EK will return to Edinburgh?

Not as yet, I suspect it won't be before late this year at the earliest.

Wasn't that one permanently withdrawn as opposed to 'covid withdrawn' ?

Emirates A380 onboard bar is now open to premium passengers

https://onemileatatime.com/news/emirate ... J7_92K7oKA

As of February 10th, there are 65 out of 120 (54%) A380s flying at EK. Currently, 28 destinations from DXB are served on the A380 with the anticipation of BCN, HKG, IAD, ICN, and SFO recommencing in March/April.

JannEejit wrote:

TC957 wrote:

mrkerr7474 wrote:

Has there been any indication if/when EK will return to Edinburgh?

Not as yet, I suspect it won't be before late this year at the earliest.

Wasn't that one permanently withdrawn as opposed to 'covid withdrawn' ?

I'm not entirely sure. I know it was covid withdrawn but never heard anything about permanently withdrawn and can't find anything online about it

What about Porto? Has there been any information about a possible EK's return?Or was it a permanent withdrawn?

Airlinerdude wrote:

As of February 10th, there are 65 out of 120 (54%) A380s flying at EK. Currently, 28 destinations from DXB are served on the A380 with the anticipation of BCN, HKG, IAD, ICN, and SFO recommencing in March/April.

Thanks for this. Out of the remaining 55, how many are being preped for service return and how many won't return at all ( ie getting WFU and to be broken up )

TC957 wrote:

Airlinerdude wrote:

As of February 10th, there are 65 out of 120 (54%) A380s flying at EK. Currently, 28 destinations from DXB are served on the A380 with the anticipation of BCN, HKG, IAD, ICN, and SFO recommencing in March/April.

Thanks for this. Out of the remaining 55, how many are being preped for service return and how many won't return at all ( ie getting WFU and to be broken up )

Of the 65 flying, it would be interesting to know if they’re actually flying profitably. I wonder if at least some are only flying because the 777 fleet is fully committed and they have no smaller aircraft to use.

airsmiles wrote:

TC957 wrote:

Airlinerdude wrote:

As of February 10th, there are 65 out of 120 (54%) A380s flying at EK. Currently, 28 destinations from DXB are served on the A380 with the anticipation of BCN, HKG, IAD, ICN, and SFO recommencing in March/April.

Thanks for this. Out of the remaining 55, how many are being preped for service return and how many won't return at all ( ie getting WFU and to be broken up )

Of the 65 flying, it would be interesting to know if they’re actually flying profitably. I wonder if at least some are only flying because the 777 fleet is fully committed and they have no smaller aircraft to use.

In regards to the 777-300ER, 22 left the fleet since 2017 without replacement and 2 are parked. Before the pandemic Emirates always declared, that the A380 was the more profitable frame.

mjoelnir wrote:

airsmiles wrote:

TC957 wrote:

Thanks for this. Out of the remaining 55, how many are being preped for service return and how many won't return at all ( ie getting WFU and to be broken up )

Of the 65 flying, it would be interesting to know if they’re actually flying profitably. I wonder if at least some are only flying because the 777 fleet is fully committed and they have no smaller aircraft to use.

In regards to the 777-300ER, 22 left the fleet since 2017 without replacement and 2 are parked. Before the pandemic Emirates always declared, that the A380 was the more profitable frame.

Interesting information but a lot has changed since the pandemic. Emirates only operate two very large aircraft types and long-haul, rather than short-haul, has been most drastically affected by COVID. I’m sure they could do with a more flexible fleet mix and fewer A380 in particular.

mjoelnir wrote:

In regards to the 777-300ER, 22 left the fleet since 2017 without replacement and 2 are parked. Before the pandemic Emirates always declared, that the A380 was the more profitable frame.

I am not questioning you nor disputing your claim. Just being curious if you have any press release or interview links for other people's reference purpose? Thanks.

Airlinerdude wrote:

As of February 10th, there are 65 out of 120 (54%) A380s flying at EK. Currently, 28 destinations from DXB are served on the A380 with the anticipation of BCN, HKG, IAD, ICN, and SFO recommencing in March/April.

Apparently BOS isn’t getting their seasonal A380 back, unless EK sees some bookings optimism. That would be a good litmus test on how international travel is evolving.

chonetsao wrote:

mjoelnir wrote:

In regards to the 777-300ER, 22 left the fleet since 2017 without replacement and 2 are parked. Before the pandemic Emirates always declared, that the A380 was the more profitable frame.

I am not questioning you nor disputing your claim. Just being curious if you have any press release or interview links for other people's reference purpose? Thanks.

foe example: https://www.airlineratings.com/news/emi ... -use-a380/

mjoelnir wrote:

chonetsao wrote:

mjoelnir wrote:

In regards to the 777-300ER, 22 left the fleet since 2017 without replacement and 2 are parked. Before the pandemic Emirates always declared, that the A380 was the more profitable frame.

I am not questioning you nor disputing your claim. Just being curious if you have any press release or interview links for other people's reference purpose? Thanks.

foe example: https://www.airlineratings.com/news/emi ... -use-a380/

Thanks. I looked through the whole article, there is no reference on [ that the A380 was the more profitable frame].

The only close enough description is:

When I fly an A380 from Dubai to Los Angeles with 515 people it burns 13 tons of fuel an hour, about 200 tons for the trip. A Boeing 787-9 in our configuration would be carrying 230-240 passengers. With two flights of the 787, which burns half the fuel, with the number of seats available, the fuel cost per seat on the A380 is cheaper than on the 787

But that paragraph only touched a theoretical case of A380 burns less fuel per seat compare to B789. We even did not count airport charges and crew cost. So profitability was not talked in the article. Do you have another source to clearly support your claim? Sorry for being difficult.

380 reintroduction to BCN, SFO, ICN and IAD being postponed: https://simpleflying.com/emirates-a380-changes/

Fair use: "According to Emirates' latest schedule upload, reflected on its website, Barcelona, San Francisco, Seoul, and Washington won’t now see the A380 until later than planned. Düsseldorf and Munich, meanwhile, will temporarily see the A380 schedule halved."

chonetsao wrote:

The only close enough description is:

When I fly an A380 from Dubai to Los Angeles with 515 people it burns 13 tons of fuel an hour, about 200 tons for the trip. A Boeing 787-9 in our configuration would be carrying 230-240 passengers. With two flights of the 787, which burns half the fuel, with the number of seats available, the fuel cost per seat on the A380 is cheaper than on the 787

But that paragraph only touched a theoretical case of A380 burns less fuel per seat compare to B789. We even did not count airport charges and crew cost. So profitability was not talked in the article. Do you have another source to clearly support your claim? Sorry for being difficult.

Also most 787-9 carry more than 230-240 passengers, usual is like 250-300, average I think around 270. And two 787-9 should carry a lot more cargo than a fully booked A380.

mrkerr7474 wrote:

JannEejit wrote:

TC957 wrote:

Not as yet, I suspect it won't be before late this year at the earliest.

Wasn't that one permanently withdrawn as opposed to 'covid withdrawn' ?

I'm not entirely sure. I know it was covid withdrawn but never heard anything about permanently withdrawn and can't find anything online about it

Emirates did state that it was withdrawn for pandemic reasons, but there's been nothing official about the flight being completely cancelled.

I suspect they want GLA to get back to 2 daily flights with the 1 x A380 with healthy numbers first before looking at restarting EDI.

TC957 wrote:

Thanks for this. Out of the remaining 55, how many are being preped for service return and how many won't return at all ( ie getting WFU and to be broken up )

There are another 5 that have either been prepared or are being prepared to the best of my knowledge.

The ultimate plan is to have 80 operational this summer. This might be moved forward based on demand and how quickly they can train pilots.

Another thing to keep in mind is that DXB will be doing refurbishment of the Northern runway from May 9th to June 22nd. This might mean further consolidation of flights and A380 activations being brought forward.

airsmiles wrote:

Of the 65 flying, it would be interesting to know if they’re actually flying profitably. I wonder if at least some are only flying because the 777 fleet is fully committed and they have no smaller aircraft to use.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. In general, businesses don't usually operate assets that aren't at least cash flow positive, unless they're chasing marketshare. Any plane being brought into service at EK is being done so with the anticipation of at least a cash flow positive operation.

Loads in J and F are very strong network wide. Y loads are still not where they were pre-Covid. If anything, that's likely a benefit of operating the A380 in the present environment considering you get the benefit of being able to haul high yielding freight by not having Y full (and thus Y bags) and having full J and F cabins.

Things are going to get very interesting over the next few weeks as a few of EK's pre-Covid core markets begin to open up to greater international travel. India, Australia, and Singapore are a couple of the major players opening up.

Airlinerdude wrote:

airsmiles wrote:

Of the 65 flying, it would be interesting to know if they’re actually flying profitably. I wonder if at least some are only flying because the 777 fleet is fully committed and they have no smaller aircraft to use.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. In general, businesses don't usually operate assets that aren't at least cash flow positive, unless they're chasing marketshare. Any plane being brought into service at EK is being done so with the anticipation of at least a cash flow positive operation.

Loads in J and F are very strong network wide. Y loads are still not where they were pre-Covid. If anything, that's likely a benefit of operating the A380 in the present environment considering you get the benefit of being able to haul high yielding freight by not having Y full (and thus Y bags) and having full J and F cabins.

Things are going to get very interesting over the next few weeks as a few of EK's pre-Covid core markets begin to open up to greater international travel. India, Australia, and Singapore are a couple of the major players opening up.

Well I think you’ve probably answered it anyway. I was just interested to know if Emirates are stuck with such large aircraft that they’re forced to operate at least some A380’s unprofitably to maintain a credible network.

I.e. they prefer to retain the market share rather than generate a profit on every single flight.

It’s not something they could do long-term, but I sense there’s some face-saving going on to maintain their position in the market.

EKs Tim Clark threatens to cancel B777X orders if not certified by July 2023. Will not accept A350s if paint issue not resolved.





https://www.airlineratings.com/news/emi ... -of-777-9/

From the article linked in the OP:

The total of 30 787s in there look very marginal now as they are so far behind in production. They were supposed to come in May 2023. But it’s not going to happen, how can they deliver? Look at the huge backlog, they haven’t produced any aircraft lately, that’ll take them two or three years to go over that.

Wow, just crazy. Is it true that they haven't produced any aircraft lately? A delay of up to 3 years is crazy. Luckily there is COVID and airlines deferred but that must hurt also Boeing.

Honestly, if it goes beyond 2023 and it goes on for another year, we probably cancel the program. What else can we do? We can’t continue the way we are. Boeing really needs to get their act together and get this aircraft sorted.

Good thats a bluff, its not like there will be other aircraft around. Now they could get all the A380 together from all the airlines that phase them out and do heavy checks on the ones they have, including extending their life but there is still a big hole over time.

Airbus could probably give them 100 A339 over the next 5 years

Maybe they should have kept the order for 40 x A330neos.

Even Al Baker isn't dumb enough to threaten his only 2 suppliers at the same time...

I have no doubt that the Airbus' paint issue will be resolved.
I am more concerned about EIS of the B777x program.

If EK actually cancels the 777X order it would be the final nail in the coffin for the business case of this expensive derivative.

LHAM wrote:

If EK actually cancels the 777X order it would be the final nail in the coffin for the business case of this expensive derivative.

I do not think they will cancel it. But what EK wants out of this is, that if EIS slips even further, EK will want full scale compensation for every day the 77X is not at EK. In the upcoming negotiations EK will try that Boeing signs up to fixed compensation payments for every day of delay over the planed delivery schedule. If Boeing will not agree EK could probably walk away somehow. So EK wants a watertight deal with set deliveries and penalties (including a possible way out if the delay is large enough or the agreed payments low enough). Boeing of course will try to avoid fixed deadlines as much as possible.

On top of that EK might also want to include additional discounts resulting from the delays of the 787s. It's all a big game to get the aircraft as cheap as possible and Boeing gives EK enough fuel for the demands due to their inability or unwillingness to give the FAA everything they want.

I guess he'll have to order IL-96s and the paper CR929 to fill the gap....eh, it's all a bluff I think. I mean, I expect that if the paint issue isn't resolved soon they may in fact delay some A350 deliveries but I don't think it will turn into a huge issues for either EK or Airbus. As for the 777X I also suspect that he is probably just setting EK up to demand compensation from Boeing if the 777X and 787 delays exceed a certain point. EK will need to replace both 77Ws and A380s in the coming decade(s). They are probably the single most logical customer for the 777-9 in the world. I guess they could drop the 787s for A339s but the 787 is the better aircraft for them. Though they could certainly get A339s quickly.

Someone is running out of money I guess…

I am actually more concerned about [Will not accept A350s if paint issue not resolved] part. B777X is before July 2023, so Boeing has 16 months to meet the deadline.

However, the A350s paint issue is more urgent. Now Emirates is technically saying: 'We are very concerned about the paint issue found by Qatar Airways. And we won't accept the aircraft like Qatar Airways unless it is fixed. '

Airbus might be so confident that it went heavy-handed against Qatar Airways by cancelling A321 orders and take QR to court, now Emirates is warning Airbus that they will do what Qatar Airways did, Airbus would be careful to rethink their retaliation against Qatar. There is more implication on this part IMO. I wonder if airbus now will actively seeking a settlement with Qatar Airways following the Emirates comment. Not to mention Abu Dhabi based Etihad would be watching this with interests as they may wish to get out of the remaining A350 contract without any penalties.

Scotron12 wrote:

EKs Tim Clark threatens to cancel B777X orders if not certified by July 2023.
https://www.airlineratings.com/news/emi ... -of-777-9/

I've read the article, and it seems you are incorrect with this statement. From the article:
... (Tim Clark) asked them (Boeing): ‘Are you on track for certification in July 2023?’, and their response is ‘Yes, conditional’.

That’s not going to alleviate your concerns…

Honestly, if it goes beyond 2023 and it goes on for another year, we probably cancel the program.... (end quote).

So my interpretation is that Boeing is aiming at mid-2023 certification, cannot guarantee this, but Clark cannot accept it when it's not certified before 2024 and if there are no guarantees it will be certified within a few months into 2024.

About the A350, apparently Clark is siding with Al-Baker. This should be worrying for Airbus. Even if they win the court case from QR, they have EK to worry about. And maybe other airlines want a root cause analysis and solution too.

Anyway, I believe EK will keep both Boeing and Airbus orders. But he warns them to get their act together, and quickly. IMO a far bigger challenge for Boeing though.

ben7x wrote:

Someone is running out of money I guess…

Yup. This is more about EK and their finances then airplanes getting to them on time. This is Tim Clark using certification and defects to cover for the fact that as of right now they don't need these airplanes anytime soon (they barely are using the ones they have) and it will put an even bigger hole in their bottom line. Air travel is recovering but not fast enough for a world hub like Dubai. They can't fill their airplanes and the last two years have been very unkind to them.

The interesting news for me is the possible life extension for 80 of their A380s to 25,000 or 30,000 cycles.

This is a change from the 12 or so years' tenure for airframes at EK that we have been used to seeing. Makes me wonder if they might pick up redundant A380s from the likes of AF or LH should they actually cancel 779s.

frigatebird wrote:

Scotron12 wrote:

EKs Tim Clark threatens to cancel B777X orders if not certified by July 2023.
https://www.airlineratings.com/news/emi ... -of-777-9/

I've read the article, and it seems you are incorrect with this statement. From the article:
... (Tim Clark) asked them (Boeing): ‘Are you on track for certification in July 2023?’, and their response is ‘Yes, conditional’.

That’s not going to alleviate your concerns…

Honestly, if it goes beyond 2023 and it goes on for another year, we probably cancel the program.... (end quote).

So my interpretation is that Boeing is aiming at mid-2023 certification, cannot guarantee this, but Clark cannot accept it when it's not certified before 2024 and if there are no guarantees it will be certified within a few months into 2024.

About the A350, apparently Clark is siding with Al-Baker. This should be worrying for Airbus. Even if they win the court case from QR, they have EK to worry about. And maybe other airlines want a root cause analysis and solution too.

Anyway, I believe EK will keep both Boeing and Airbus orders. But he warns them to get their act together, and quickly. IMO a far bigger challenge for Boeing though.

As a non-English speaker, I must have misunderstood what is being said... My understanding was as follows:

"Our current financial standing does not permit us to tie billions of dollards of capital into new WB aircraft, which are not needed from an operational standpoint at this stage, anyway. Therefore we use the widely reported problems both programmes are facing as an excuse to demand further concessions from both manufacturers. We would like to open negotiations to amend the terms of the contracts to better suit our current needs."

EK is the 777X. They will not cancel. They have more wiggle room with the Airbus order.

JerseyFlyer wrote:

The interesting news for me is the possible life extension for 80 of their A380s to 25,000 or 30,000 cycles.

This is a change from the 12 or so years' tenure for airframes at EK that we have been used to seeing. Makes me wonder if they might pick up redundant A380s from the likes of AF or LH should they actually cancel 779s.

That gives them higher operating costs in exchange for lower CapEx at a time when fuel cost is high, and bigger increments of capacity when demand is suppressed. Doubly risky.