Air Cargo (non Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2022

DLNZ · Sun May 08, 2022 8:39 am

Wolfman wrote:
First of all: thanks to all for the insights, really enjoy following this thread!

Does anyone know what's going on with Mesk´s 9H-MSK? It is sitting in IST since April 21...
Thank you

I don’t, but you’re right, looks to have not flown for a few weeks. She was in very regular service prior to that for quite some time so perhaps maintenance.

In other jumbo news, N27063 is up and running and has escaped CGK for her new life in Europe. Being ferried by JTN as we speak, CGK-CAI-unknown. Interesting she is still operating under the N callsign rather than YR-FSB for Romcargo. She is sporting their titles and looks great.

Swiss03 · Sun May 08, 2022 1:38 pm

Little 747 freighter update incoming.

Factory Freighters still available for use:

B-2427 Grandstar cargo, Std at PEK since 2011, although I think we've all agreed this isn't really an option.
B-2461 China southern, Std at CAN since mid-late 2021, prob will go to SF air like its sister.
B-2473 CHina southern Std at CAN, Seems to be going to SF Airlines. (edit. now in SF air paint)
N297CL Was stored at MZJ since 2011, now on its way to Air Atlanta Icelandic (jetoneX)
N575CL Was stored at VCV since 2012, now on its way to Air Atlanta Icelandic (jetoneX)

Now, these are the actually interesting birds - The sanction section:
VP-BIM AirBridgeCargo std at SHJ
VP-BIK AirBridgeCargo std at SVO
VQ-BWW AirBridgeCargo std at SVO
G-CLAA CargoLogicAir std at MZJ
G-CLBA CargoLogicAir std at HHN

Currently in Maint or short term storage are:
B-18707 - CI, B-18708 - CI, B-18711 - CI, B-18715 - CI, B-18720 - CI, B-18721 - CI, B-18722 - CI, 9V-SFK - SQ, HL7436 - Asiana, N418MC - Atlas, N416MC - Atlas, N581UP - UPS

And for the Converted freighters:
B-2458 Air China, Std at PEK since 2014, doesn't sound like this is in any fit state
N925BA ex KE Cargo, Std at MZJ since 2013, pretty sure this is one the ones used to resurrect one of the Eva air or KE birds
YR-FSB ex EVA Air, on its way to ROMCargo currently having been resurrected
ER-BBF ex KE cargo , on its way to aerotrans, currently at HHN for possibly maintenance
VP-BYK ex Cathay, due to longtail cargo, currently at FLL? sighted in longtail colors. (of note for being a RR bird.)
VQ-BWT Ex longtail due Air Atlanta Icelandic (jetoneX) currently stored

So realistically, the only 747s currently available are all sanctioned. There isn't a single 747-400 in long term, storage, left to be resurrected.

gdavis003 · Sun May 08, 2022 5:53 pm

DLNZ wrote:
Wolfman wrote:
First of all: thanks to all for the insights, really enjoy following this thread!

Does anyone know what's going on with Mesk´s 9H-MSK? It is sitting in IST since April 21...
Thank you

I don’t, but you’re right, looks to have not flown for a few weeks. She was in very regular service prior to that for quite some time so perhaps maintenance.

In other jumbo news, N27063 is up and running and has escaped CGK for her new life in Europe. Being ferried by JTN as we speak, CGK-CAI-unknown. Interesting she is still operating under the N callsign rather than YR-FSB for Romcargo. She is sporting their titles and looks great.

I saw a picture on another well-known site, and it essentially looks exactly like the United/Continental livery without the blue. They added ROM Cargo titles, a gray underside and gold stripe separating the gold from the white. Looks nice.

TriniA340 · Sun May 08, 2022 10:11 pm

zkojq wrote:
Read an article about Bornemouth Airport's freight ops, which includes an interesting bit about EuropeanAviation/EuropeanCargo:

European Cargo currently operates a fleet of six A340 widebody aircraft as cargo-in-cabin aircraft between the UK, China and the US. There will be 10 aircraft operating by the end of the year and 12 by the end of March 2023. The company owns 17 A340s in total, which it will be independently carrying out passenger to freighter (P2F) conversions on, minus the cargo door, from the latter half of this year, explains Paul Stoddart, chief executive of European Aviation.

The decision to not fully convert the aircraft may be surprising, but it was a logical move, explains Stoddart. The lower decks of European Cargo’s A340s can handle containers (AKE-LD3) with a max volume of 4.5 m3 and max weight of 1,560 kg, pallets (P6P-PMC) with a max volume of 11 m3 and a max weight of 5,100 kg, and pallets (P1P-PAG) with a max volume of 10 m3 and a max weight of 4,636 kg.

European Cargo’s efficiency measures include the creation of 46 rolling “pods” which measure up to 88 inches high and are used on the upper deck. These purpose-designed smoke and fireproof pods were built in conjunction with DHL and Hermes and can be quickly loaded with loose parcels and rolled on and off the aircraft. Tests show the whole aircraft can be unloaded in under two hours. “All we do is fold the top down, zip it down both sides put the fireproof Velcro on the front,” says Stoddart.

The company, which now has over 400 employees, operates a flight from Bournemouth to Fuzhou Changle International Airport in China for the NHS, which operates daily.

However, the company also handle all kinds of general cargo now, including mail, cars and e-commerce. “We’ve had a Bournemouth to JFK contract for the last two years with DHL,” says Stoddart. “We then have a Qingdao in China to JFK, which is three times a week, they want to go up to daily. We’ve got a Shenzhen (SZX) to LAX which is three times a week and will probably stay at this frequency. That’s been running for 12 months now – for a consolidator company in China called 9D. “Then we’ve got a Bournemouth to Qingdao flight – a Hermes e-commerce type contract for electrical items. That will be three times a week with the aspiration to go daily.”

European Cargo plans to decide on replacement aircraft in 2030. It expects to keep the fleet of A340s until 2032, though some will likely operate until 2035.

https://www.aircargonews.net/monthly-ex ... nto-cargo/

Sounds like they're definitely making hay whilst the sun shines. Those A340s would have been very cheap to acquire and there's plenty of volume in an A346. People who follow F1 will know that Paul Stoddart has always been.....quite the character.

Thanks for this bit of info! So happy to hear more of these majestic beasts are being taken up for use as preighters with their value in cargo volume & range being realised.

In DC-8 news, I see that today OB-2059-P made a half-hour test flight, after being on the ground for the past three months. Hope this means she'll be back in (Amerijet?) service soon....

DLNZ · Mon May 09, 2022 11:17 pm

gdavis003 wrote:

I saw a picture on another well-known site, and it essentially looks exactly like the United/Continental livery without the blue. They added ROM Cargo titles, a gray underside and gold stripe separating the gold from the white. Looks nice.

Yes I thought the same. She ended up at Lleida (ILD) in Spain, an airfield I know zero about but looks to have a military presence. I will keep an eye on when she starts to operate as YR-FSB.

TriniA340 wrote:
zkojq wrote:
Read an article about Bornemouth Airport's freight ops, which includes an interesting bit about EuropeanAviation/EuropeanCargo:

European Cargo currently operates a fleet of six A340 widebody aircraft as cargo-in-cabin aircraft between the UK, China and the US. There will be 10 aircraft operating by the end of the year and 12 by the end of March 2023. The company owns 17 A340s in total, which it will be independently carrying out passenger to freighter (P2F) conversions on, minus the cargo door, from the latter half of this year, explains Paul Stoddart, chief executive of European Aviation.

The decision to not fully convert the aircraft may be surprising, but it was a logical move, explains Stoddart. The lower decks of European Cargo’s A340s can handle containers (AKE-LD3) with a max volume of 4.5 m3 and max weight of 1,560 kg, pallets (P6P-PMC) with a max volume of 11 m3 and a max weight of 5,100 kg, and pallets (P1P-PAG) with a max volume of 10 m3 and a max weight of 4,636 kg.

European Cargo’s efficiency measures include the creation of 46 rolling “pods” which measure up to 88 inches high and are used on the upper deck. These purpose-designed smoke and fireproof pods were built in conjunction with DHL and Hermes and can be quickly loaded with loose parcels and rolled on and off the aircraft. Tests show the whole aircraft can be unloaded in under two hours. “All we do is fold the top down, zip it down both sides put the fireproof Velcro on the front,” says Stoddart.

The company, which now has over 400 employees, operates a flight from Bournemouth to Fuzhou Changle International Airport in China for the NHS, which operates daily.

However, the company also handle all kinds of general cargo now, including mail, cars and e-commerce. “We’ve had a Bournemouth to JFK contract for the last two years with DHL,” says Stoddart. “We then have a Qingdao in China to JFK, which is three times a week, they want to go up to daily. We’ve got a Shenzhen (SZX) to LAX which is three times a week and will probably stay at this frequency. That’s been running for 12 months now – for a consolidator company in China called 9D. “Then we’ve got a Bournemouth to Qingdao flight – a Hermes e-commerce type contract for electrical items. That will be three times a week with the aspiration to go daily.”

European Cargo plans to decide on replacement aircraft in 2030. It expects to keep the fleet of A340s until 2032, though some will likely operate until 2035.

https://www.aircargonews.net/monthly-ex ... nto-cargo/

Sounds like they're definitely making hay whilst the sun shines. Those A340s would have been very cheap to acquire and there's plenty of volume in an A346. People who follow F1 will know that Paul Stoddart has always been.....quite the character.

Thanks for this bit of info! So happy to hear more of these majestic beasts are being taken up for use as preighters with their value in cargo volume & range being realised.

In DC-8 news, I see that today OB-2059-P made a half-hour test flight, after being on the ground for the past three months. Hope this means she'll be back in (Amerijet?) service soon....

Likewise, thanks ZK-OJQ, a really interesting update. I'm pleased Paul S still has his hand in the game, and is doing something different using low capital aircraft. He is quite the entrepreneur and a great character of the industry. From an airport perspective, it's a great get for Bournemouth also, which up until recently wouldn't have carried any meaningful volumes of freight.

Flying-Tiger · Wed May 11, 2022 9:47 am

Quite a bit of movement on the freighter market in the past couple of days:
- Lufthansa CArgo has signed for the 777-8F with an order for 7. Not yet clear if new orders or a conversions from the pax order, at least per my understanding. Another three 777F to be added, two appear to be new orders and one a NTU.
- Virgin Atlantic is going to lease the Titan Airway A321P2F for freight operations this summer
- The 777-300ERSF program has reached "50 orders and commitments" with not all clients having been revealed so far
- Astral Aviation has signed (or will sign?) for 4 A330-300P2F
- Texel Air from Bahrain will add two more 737-800BCF

CX Flyboy · Wed May 11, 2022 10:01 am

Flying-Tiger wrote:
Quite a bit of movement on the freighter market in the past couple of days:

- The 777-300ERSF program has reached "50 orders and commitments" with not all clients having been revealed so far
F

How many are accounted for? Thanks.

jbs2886 · Wed May 11, 2022 3:34 pm

ASL signs for 3 CAM A321 conversions with 2 deliveries this year. Also 2 A330P2Fs. https://www.scramble.nl/civil-news/asl- ... r-a321pcfs

Surprising given how ASL has gone "all-in" on the 738 conversion, but maybe the fast delivery?

gdavis003 · Thu May 12, 2022 2:48 am

TS-ICD, formerly N705BR and the newest 737-800F for Express Air Cargo in Tunisia, is about to land at SNN after a stop at BGR from Dothan. Flew under an Express Air Cargo flight number. Another conversion in the books.

And EI-GWX took a test flight today under a Nomadic number. This one is painted for Air Incheon Cargo in Korea, and sister ship EI-GWP is destined for Compass Air Cargo. Both former SunExpress birds that were mostly converted at MIA and arrived to DHN in late February and early March, respectively.

DLNZ · Thu May 12, 2022 6:52 am

Flying-Tiger wrote:
Quite a bit of movement on the freighter market in the past couple of days:
- Lufthansa CArgo has signed for the 777-8F with an order for 7. Not yet clear if new orders or a conversions from the pax order, at least per my understanding. Another three 777F to be added, two appear to be new orders and one a NTU.
- Virgin Atlantic is going to lease the Titan Airway A321P2F for freight operations this summer
- The 777-300ERSF program has reached "50 orders and commitments" with not all clients having been revealed so far
- Astral Aviation has signed (or will sign?) for 4 A330-300P2F
- Texel Air from Bahrain will add two more 737-800BCF

Thank you for this, appreciated. The 777-300ERSF is needed today, as it's quite clear there's very little, if any, in the way of 747 feedstock available.

I see EVA picked up an additional 77F also.

In WGN news, given that a week or so has past without reporting on their mishaps:

Flagship jumbo N258SN did an air-return at ICN on 5/9.
N344KD : Flying. Currently at Ramstein on CMB duties
N356KD: Operated a CMB flight to RMS on 5/5 and positioned to HHN, possibly MX unless it broke there?
N452SN: in MX at SHV since 4/26

Will update the MD11s in due course, and perhaps take a look at there whereabouts of some of the more interesting cargo haulers as time allows.

eightcone · Fri May 13, 2022 8:44 pm

Ameriflight adding 15 more freighters by the end of the year. They are adding the Saab 340b to their fleet.

https://w3.ameriflight.com/ameriflight-expands-fleet-with-fifteen-saab-340b-aircraft-from-jetstream/

gdavis003 · Fri May 13, 2022 10:10 pm

N804SN left DHN today after paint, flew to RSW for more maintenance and conformity before entering service for WGN

Spacepope · Sat May 14, 2022 12:13 am

eightcone wrote:
Ameriflight adding 15 more freighters by the end of the year. They are adding the Saab 340b to their fleet.

https://w3.ameriflight.com/ameriflight-expands-fleet-with-fifteen-saab-340b-aircraft-from-jetstream/

That’s one way to address their rapidly aging fleet. So this will be their largest aircraft, wonder what their other options were that they passed on. EMB-120, and… ATR42?

Cardude2 · Sat May 14, 2022 12:56 am

Spacepope wrote:
eightcone wrote:
Ameriflight adding 15 more freighters by the end of the year. They are adding the Saab 340b to their fleet.

https://w3.ameriflight.com/ameriflight-expands-fleet-with-fifteen-saab-340b-aircraft-from-jetstream/

That’s one way to address their rapidly aging fleet. So this will be their largest aircraft, wonder what their other options were that they passed on. EMB-120, and… ATR42?

I don't think there's any EMB-120's left and probably the Saabs are cheaper than the ATR-42's since everyone's retiring them

DLNZ · Sat May 14, 2022 2:19 am

gdavis003 wrote:
N804SN left DHN today after paint, flew to RSW for more maintenance and conformity before entering service for WGN

Awesome! So 3 and a bit weeks to paint a MD11. Nice one.

airsmiles · Sat May 14, 2022 5:47 am

zkojq wrote:
Read an article about Bornemouth Airport's freight ops, which includes an interesting bit about EuropeanAviation/EuropeanCargo:

European Cargo currently operates a fleet of six A340 widebody aircraft as cargo-in-cabin aircraft between the UK, China and the US. There will be 10 aircraft operating by the end of the year and 12 by the end of March 2023. The company owns 17 A340s in total, which it will be independently carrying out passenger to freighter (P2F) conversions on, minus the cargo door, from the latter half of this year, explains Paul Stoddart, chief executive of European Aviation.

The decision to not fully convert the aircraft may be surprising, but it was a logical move, explains Stoddart. The lower decks of European Cargo’s A340s can handle containers (AKE-LD3) with a max volume of 4.5 m3 and max weight of 1,560 kg, pallets (P6P-PMC) with a max volume of 11 m3 and a max weight of 5,100 kg, and pallets (P1P-PAG) with a max volume of 10 m3 and a max weight of 4,636 kg.

European Cargo’s efficiency measures include the creation of 46 rolling “pods” which measure up to 88 inches high and are used on the upper deck. These purpose-designed smoke and fireproof pods were built in conjunction with DHL and Hermes and can be quickly loaded with loose parcels and rolled on and off the aircraft. Tests show the whole aircraft can be unloaded in under two hours. “All we do is fold the top down, zip it down both sides put the fireproof Velcro on the front,” says Stoddart.

The company, which now has over 400 employees, operates a flight from Bournemouth to Fuzhou Changle International Airport in China for the NHS, which operates daily.

However, the company also handle all kinds of general cargo now, including mail, cars and e-commerce. “We’ve had a Bournemouth to JFK contract for the last two years with DHL,” says Stoddart. “We then have a Qingdao in China to JFK, which is three times a week, they want to go up to daily. We’ve got a Shenzhen (SZX) to LAX which is three times a week and will probably stay at this frequency. That’s been running for 12 months now – for a consolidator company in China called 9D. “Then we’ve got a Bournemouth to Qingdao flight – a Hermes e-commerce type contract for electrical items. That will be three times a week with the aspiration to go daily.”

European Cargo plans to decide on replacement aircraft in 2030. It expects to keep the fleet of A340s until 2032, though some will likely operate until 2035.

https://www.aircargonews.net/monthly-ex ... nto-cargo/

Sounds like they're definitely making hay whilst the sun shines. Those A340s would have been very cheap to acquire and there's plenty of volume in an A346. People who follow F1 will know that Paul Stoddart has always been.....quite the character.

That must be an out of date article as the regular BOH-FOC flights to China stopped in early February. One A346 is dedicated to regular LAX-SZN flights though. Outside of that there are a very few one-off charters.

MO11 · Sat May 14, 2022 6:55 pm

After nearly 10 years parked in the desert (including a 2-month visit to the California high desert), N805SJ is on the way into MIA this afternoon.

TUGMASTER · Sat May 14, 2022 7:49 pm

MO11 wrote:
After nearly 10 years parked in the desert (including a 2-month visit to the California high desert), N805SJ is on the way into MIA this afternoon.

Wow… so that’s 3 MIA based DC8’s , truly amazing.
Plus the Samaritans Purse DC8 knocking about.

mark1484 · Sat May 14, 2022 8:09 pm

TUGMASTER wrote:
MO11 wrote:
After nearly 10 years parked in the desert (including a 2-month visit to the California high desert), N805SJ is on the way into MIA this afternoon.

Wow… so that’s 3 MIA based DC8’s , truly amazing.
Plus the Samaritans Purse DC8 knocking about.

Plus 2 in the DRC

TriniA340 · Sun May 15, 2022 3:29 am

MO11 wrote:
After nearly 10 years parked in the desert (including a 2-month visit to the California high desert), N805SJ is on the way into MIA this afternoon.

You beat me to it

This is great news. Would this be for Amerijet? The Titan A321P2F is heading back to Europe today; resting at KEF atm.

MO11 · Sun May 15, 2022 4:15 am

TriniA340 wrote:
You beat me to it This is great news. Would this be for Amerijet? The Titan A321P2F is heading back to Europe today; resting at KEF atm.

You would think that with six recent 757 acquisitions, Amerijet could now cover its own flying. But I noticed that a new route for Amerijet is SJU-ONT.

wjcandee · Sun May 15, 2022 4:16 am

Just happy to see all three flying!

stretch8 · Sun May 15, 2022 2:40 pm

N390CM CAM B763 BDSF ex-ANA - test flt TLV-TLV today. cheers!

DL757NYC · Mon May 16, 2022 5:57 am

CX747 wrote:
Spacepope wrote:
bigb wrote:

I just dropped 418MC off for MX in HKG a few days ago..

Nice! Keep ‘em flying. I want to see these 744Fs flying for years to come

My friend, the overall capability, capacity, durability and dependability of the 747 will keep the Queen going for quite some time. Shame production is winding down but that only drives the market's desire/need for 747s up. On the military side we see the USAF now having to go after second hand frames due to engine needs/requirements.

Glad to see the gang is all here. My Uncle has been working my tail off. Hopefully in a few weeks I can pop back on here with greater frequency.

If the USAF needs 747’s for anything. I think they should pick up any 747-400 that hasn’t been cargo converted. There are a select few low cycle (10k cycles)low time(under 50k hours) 747’s that are stored. Eventually these will be converted to cargo operations. Some of the 747-400’s are getting long in the tooth. Especially the P2F ones due to the hours that were logged during passenger ops. I def can see the 747-8 be converted. E commerce is how people get things now. The demand for that type of freight is not only increasing here in the USA but around the world. I’m shocked the airlines haven’t gotten into the cargo game.

747classic · Mon May 16, 2022 7:41 am

DL757NYC wrote:
CX747 wrote:
Spacepope wrote:
Nice! Keep ‘em flying. I want to see these 744Fs flying for years to come

My friend, the overall capability, capacity, durability and dependability of the 747 will keep the Queen going for quite some time. Shame production is winding down but that only drives the market's desire/need for 747s up. On the military side we see the USAF now having to go after second hand frames due to engine needs/requirements.

Glad to see the gang is all here. My Uncle has been working my tail off. Hopefully in a few weeks I can pop back on here with greater frequency.

If the USAF needs 747’s for anything. I think they should pick up any 747-400 that hasn’t been cargo converted. There are a select few low cycle (10k cycles)low time(under 50k hours) 747’s that are stored. Eventually these will be converted to cargo operations. Some of the 747-400’s are getting long in the tooth. Especially the P2F ones due to the hours that were logged during passenger ops. I def can see the 747-8 be converted. E commerce is how people get things now. The demand for that type of freight is not only increasing here in the USA but around the world. I’m shocked the airlines haven’t gotten into the cargo game.

Theroretically you can P-F convert a few low time 747-400's, however the IAI 744BDSF line seems to be closed down (last two Asiana Cargo 744BDSF conversions were completed in 2017 ! ) and if you could get a conversion there will be a long waiting time, due lack of space and suitable technicans available at TLV.
If you need a 4 holer for the USAF i would always prefer a 747-8, for standarization with the two USAF VC-25B's.
Let's first see what happens with the almost zero hour 747-8I/BBJ that was bought back by Boeing.

wjcandee · Mon May 16, 2022 9:06 am

N390CM, following that test flight mentioned by Stretch8 above, appears headed northeast over Greece at 40,000 feet, presumably going to SNN.

Been at TLV since 8/12/21, or just over 9 months. IAI was getting them done in 6 months pre-Covid.

CAM currently has 5 others at TLV, and 3 at ILN and one at MZJ.

Spacepope · Mon May 16, 2022 12:29 pm

wjcandee wrote:
N390CM, following that test flight mentioned by Stretch8 above, appears headed northeast over Greece at 40,000 feet, presumably going to SNN.

Been at TLV since 8/12/21, or just over 9 months. IAI was getting them done in 6 months pre-Covid.

CAM currently has 5 others at TLV, and 3 at ILN and one at MZJ.

Since the line at ADD is currently cutting metal Avon 767s, let’s hope these delays were caused by the pain of expansion during supply crunch times and will begin to resolve themselves since the Dubai and Korean expansions won’t be handling 767s. It’s really odd how the former flood of BDSF 767s has slowed and how much work they surrendered to BCF program lines this past year.

crownvic · Mon May 16, 2022 4:16 pm

I posted a dedicated thread..The cargo IL-62 is making the rounds through the Caribbean enroute to Mexico. Originated in Libya!

LAXintl · Tue May 17, 2022 12:38 am

FedEx announced it will place its new Cessna 408 SkyCourier with Mountain Air Cargo

https://cargofacts.com/allposts/carrier ... air-cargo/

stretch8 · Tue May 17, 2022 10:35 am

N390CM CAM B763 BDSF enroute SNN-CVG, arr around 1200L. Sched CVG-MCN 2day, prob for paint. cheers!

Spacepope · Tue May 17, 2022 1:09 pm

stretch8 wrote:
N390CM CAM B763 BDSF enroute SNN-CVG, arr around 1200L. Sched CVG-MCN 2day, prob for paint. cheers!

I can't wait for the first SDR to see how the -381s use compares to the old -281s.

Spacepope · Wed May 18, 2022 1:24 pm

Saw this pop up beyond a paywall: https://twitter.com/CargoFacts/status/1 ... 3263987712

"AerCap bags LOIs for sixteen 777-300ERSFs "

That's a pretty substantial number and makes the huge expansion of conversion lines for Bedek seem less of a risk.

jbs2886 · Wed May 18, 2022 3:56 pm

Spacepope wrote:
Saw this pop up beyond a paywall: https://twitter.com/CargoFacts/status/1 ... 3263987712

"AerCap bags LOIs for sixteen 777-300ERSFs "

That's a pretty substantial number and makes the huge expansion of conversion lines for Bedek seem less of a risk.

So 16 of 18 orders placed. Also important to note this isn't a single customer.

MCOflyer · Wed May 18, 2022 7:15 pm

Egyptair is converting a 738 into a freighter at Miami according to sources.

zkojq · Thu May 19, 2022 1:24 am

Do we know what's flying this job? Atlas maybe?

The US government will fly in baby formula on commercial planes contracted by the military in an airlift aimed at easing the major shortage plaguing the country, the White House said on Wednesday.

The Department of Defense "will use its contracts with commercial air cargo lines, as it did to move materials during the early months of the Covid pandemic, to transport products from manufacturing facilities abroad that have met Food and Drug Administration (FDA) safety standards," the White House said.

"Bypassing regular air freighting routes will speed up the importation and distribution of formula and serve as an immediate support as manufacturers continue to ramp up production," it said, dubbing the effort "Operation Fly Formula."

https://www.france24.com/en/americas/20 ... r-shortage

CX747 · Thu May 19, 2022 7:10 am

zkojq wrote:
Do we know what's flying this job? Atlas maybe?

The US government will fly in baby formula on commercial planes contracted by the military in an airlift aimed at easing the major shortage plaguing the country, the White House said on Wednesday.

The Department of Defense "will use its contracts with commercial air cargo lines, as it did to move materials during the early months of the Covid pandemic, to transport products from manufacturing facilities abroad that have met Food and Drug Administration (FDA) safety standards," the White House said.

"Bypassing regular air freighting routes will speed up the importation and distribution of formula and serve as an immediate support as manufacturers continue to ramp up production," it said, dubbing the effort "Operation Fly Formula."

https://www.france24.com/en/americas/20 ... r-shortage

Wow, just wow. Tapping the DOD and its contracts to fly baby formula in. I'm thankful that overall, it is a quite time in history for the DOD and there are not pressing military concerns for my Uncle. Nothing like understanding what the military and its outside contracts are set up to do. Hope some guys get some good hours and pay out of it in the end!!!

a2b7 · Fri May 20, 2022 5:32 pm

Spacepope wrote:
stretch8 wrote:
N390CM CAM B763 BDSF enroute SNN-CVG, arr around 1200L. Sched CVG-MCN 2day, prob for paint. cheers!

I can't wait for the first SDR to see how the -381s use compares to the old -281s.

Note that some SDRs about N391CM (ex JA606A), which is being converted at TLV, were published recently: it had 51520 FH and 21336 FC on 16 May 2022 and is almost 20 years old. With these figures it has plenty of life left. Is this similar to the -281s when they were converted?

Spacepope · Fri May 20, 2022 6:27 pm

a2b7 wrote:
Spacepope wrote:
stretch8 wrote:
N390CM CAM B763 BDSF enroute SNN-CVG, arr around 1200L. Sched CVG-MCN 2day, prob for paint. cheers!

I can't wait for the first SDR to see how the -381s use compares to the old -281s.

Note that some SDRs about N391CM (ex JA606A), which is being converted at TLV, were published recently: it had 51520 FH and 21336 FC on 16 May 2022 and is almost 20 years old. With these figures it has plenty of life left. Is this similar to the -281s when they were converted?

Pretty high cycles!

For comparison, Delta's oldest in service, N171DN has 137,580 hours and 20,101 cycles. as of this past April.

wjcandee · Fri May 20, 2022 6:40 pm

Cycle-wise, that's about where some of the older Amazon ex-AA aircraft and ex-DL aircraft were at time of conversion, but far less on hours. So, for example, when sent for conversion, N1501P was 21647/115266, and N379AA was 25448/103386.

a2b7 · Fri May 20, 2022 7:10 pm

Spacepope wrote:
a2b7 wrote:
Spacepope wrote:

I can't wait for the first SDR to see how the -381s use compares to the old -281s.

Note that some SDRs about N391CM (ex JA606A), which is being converted at TLV, were published recently: it had 51520 FH and 21336 FC on 16 May 2022 and is almost 20 years old. With these figures it has plenty of life left. Is this similar to the -281s when they were converted?

Pretty high cycles!

For comparison, Delta's oldest in service, N171DN has 137,580 hours and 20,101 cycles. as of this past April.

Well for sure the Delta B767s have a high average stage length (6.8 FH/FC for N171DN).
To be honest I expected even more flight cylces considering N391CM was in the higher density C10Y260 config when it was retired according to planespotters.net, so it was probably used regularly on domestic routes if I am not mistaken.

Spacepope · Fri May 20, 2022 10:04 pm

a2b7 wrote:
Spacepope wrote:
a2b7 wrote:
Note that some SDRs about N391CM (ex JA606A), which is being converted at TLV, were published recently: it had 51520 FH and 21336 FC on 16 May 2022 and is almost 20 years old. With these figures it has plenty of life left. Is this similar to the -281s when they were converted?

Pretty high cycles!

For comparison, Delta's oldest in service, N171DN has 137,580 hours and 20,101 cycles. as of this past April.

Well for sure the Delta B767s have a high average stage length (6.8 FH/FC for N171DN).
To be honest I expected even more flight cylces considering N391CM was in the higher density C10Y260 config when it was retired according to planespotters.net, so it was probably used regularly on domestic routes if I am not mistaken.

Oh yes, I was just pointing out wildly different utilization. CAM can safely put the ex-ANA machines on normal transatlantic ABX duty and never fear of running out of hours.

aristoenigma · Fri May 20, 2022 10:56 pm

747classic wrote:
DL757NYC wrote:
CX747 wrote:

My friend, the overall capability, capacity, durability and dependability of the 747 will keep the Queen going for quite some time. Shame production is winding down but that only drives the market's desire/need for 747s up. On the military side we see the USAF now having to go after second hand frames due to engine needs/requirements.

Glad to see the gang is all here. My Uncle has been working my tail off. Hopefully in a few weeks I can pop back on here with greater frequency.

If the USAF needs 747’s for anything. I think they should pick up any 747-400 that hasn’t been cargo converted. There are a select few low cycle (10k cycles)low time(under 50k hours) 747’s that are stored. Eventually these will be converted to cargo operations. Some of the 747-400’s are getting long in the tooth. Especially the P2F ones due to the hours that were logged during passenger ops. I def can see the 747-8 be converted. E commerce is how people get things now. The demand for that type of freight is not only increasing here in the USA but around the world. I’m shocked the airlines haven’t gotten into the cargo game.

Theroretically you can P-F convert a few low time 747-400's, however the IAI 744BDSF line seems to be closed down (last two Asiana Cargo 744BDSF conversions were completed in 2017 ! ) and if you could get a conversion there will be a long waiting time, due lack of space and suitable technicans available at TLV.
If you need a 4 holer for the USAF i would always prefer a 747-8, for standarization with the two USAF VC-25B's.
Let's first see what happens with the almost zero hour 747-8I/BBJ that was bought back by Boeing.

I am wondering how the impact of Russian war on AirBridgeCargo has changed the worldwide cargo industry's choice of aircraft. Is the gap being filled by non 747 alternatives? Will QR's two 748Fs be bid for aggressively? Will there be more impetus to do a 748i conversion and possibly use N458BJ as the test bed?

CX747 · Sun May 22, 2022 1:52 am

aristoenigma wrote:
747classic wrote:
DL757NYC wrote:

If the USAF needs 747’s for anything. I think they should pick up any 747-400 that hasn’t been cargo converted. There are a select few low cycle (10k cycles)low time(under 50k hours) 747’s that are stored. Eventually these will be converted to cargo operations. Some of the 747-400’s are getting long in the tooth. Especially the P2F ones due to the hours that were logged during passenger ops. I def can see the 747-8 be converted. E commerce is how people get things now. The demand for that type of freight is not only increasing here in the USA but around the world. I’m shocked the airlines haven’t gotten into the cargo game.

Theroretically you can P-F convert a few low time 747-400's, however the IAI 744BDSF line seems to be closed down (last two Asiana Cargo 744BDSF conversions were completed in 2017 ! ) and if you could get a conversion there will be a long waiting time, due lack of space and suitable technicans available at TLV.
If you need a 4 holer for the USAF i would always prefer a 747-8, for standarization with the two USAF VC-25B's.
Let's first see what happens with the almost zero hour 747-8I/BBJ that was bought back by Boeing.

I am wondering how the impact of Russian war on AirBridgeCargo has changed the worldwide cargo industry's choice of aircraft. Is the gap being filled by non 747 alternatives? Will QR's two 748Fs be bid for aggressively? Will there be more impetus to do a 748i conversion and possibly use N458BJ as the test bed?

The 77W P2F will begin to fill the need pretty soon. With ABC off the table, those that do run 747s, continue to have a license to print $$$.

I don't believe there will be a 747-8I P2F program. There is not just enough metal out there.

Cardude2 · Sun May 22, 2022 4:43 am

CX747 wrote:
aristoenigma wrote:
747classic wrote:

Theroretically you can P-F convert a few low time 747-400's, however the IAI 744BDSF line seems to be closed down (last two Asiana Cargo 744BDSF conversions were completed in 2017 ! ) and if you could get a conversion there will be a long waiting time, due lack of space and suitable technicans available at TLV.
If you need a 4 holer for the USAF i would always prefer a 747-8, for standarization with the two USAF VC-25B's.
Let's first see what happens with the almost zero hour 747-8I/BBJ that was bought back by Boeing.

I am wondering how the impact of Russian war on AirBridgeCargo has changed the worldwide cargo industry's choice of aircraft. Is the gap being filled by non 747 alternatives? Will QR's two 748Fs be bid for aggressively? Will there be more impetus to do a 748i conversion and possibly use N458BJ as the test bed?

The 77W P2F will begin to fill the need pretty soon. With ABC off the table, those that do run 747s, continue to have a license to print $$$.

I don't believe there will be a 747-8I P2F program. There is not just enough metal out there.

good point all there is is:

1 possible test aircraft (N458BJ) (will find out next shareholder meeting???)

1 Qatar Amiri flight aircraft for sale: https://samchui.com/2020/07/09/qatar-ro ... om8_qjMI2w

9 Korean air aircraft are soon to be on the market

7 air china aircraft

19 luftansa aircraft

that adds up to 35 aircraft (subtracting 2 for E-4B replacement) not to mention the possibilities of one of these VIPs selling:

1 Brunei gov

1 Egypt gov

1 South Korean gov

1 Morroco gov

2 other Qatar Amiri flight

1 oman gov

1 kuwait gov

1 turkey gov

that very theoretical dream adds up to 44 frames

jbs2886 · Sun May 22, 2022 4:52 am

Cardude2 wrote:
9 Korean air aircraft are soon to be on the market

What’s your source for this factual assertion?

classicjets · Sun May 22, 2022 6:41 am

zkojq wrote:
Do we know what's flying this job? Atlas maybe?

The US government will fly in baby formula on commercial planes contracted by the military in an airlift aimed at easing the major shortage plaguing the country, the White House said on Wednesday.

The Department of Defense "will use its contracts with commercial air cargo lines, as it did to move materials during the early months of the Covid pandemic, to transport products from manufacturing facilities abroad that have met Food and Drug Administration (FDA) safety standards," the White House said.

"Bypassing regular air freighting routes will speed up the importation and distribution of formula and serve as an immediate support as manufacturers continue to ramp up production," it said, dubbing the effort "Operation Fly Formula."

https://www.france24.com/en/americas/20 ... r-shortage

I read news that said the flight is from ZRH to IND. Said it's utilizing military aircraft and shows a photo of US airmen securing the pallets.
https://www.scmp.com/news/world/united- ... gin-flight

wjcandee · Sun May 22, 2022 7:26 am

All politics and showboating. As if NESTLE couldn't figure out how to do this.

Phosphorus · Sun May 22, 2022 11:07 am

jbs2886 wrote:
Cardude2 wrote:
9 Korean air aircraft are soon to be on the market

What’s your source for this factual assertion?

Korean Air said "retirement in 2030", AFAIR.
Whether that's "soon" -- depends on how you look at it.

travaz · Sun May 22, 2022 4:38 pm

wjcandee wrote:
All politics and showboating. As if NESTLE couldn't figure out how to do this.

Hey if your Nestle why not get the Uncle to pay top dollar for the product and pay for the shipping! Walk away with a boat load of cash and little expense.

catdaddy63 · Sun May 22, 2022 5:26 pm

Kalitta has purchased the former VH-OEJ ex QF "Wunala Dreaming" now registered N329ZA. Stored at MZJ, withdrawn from use 3/20 and it's an ER bird just under 19 years old. Any chance this will be converted or just a parts donor?

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