St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2022

strangeplanes · Tue Jul 26, 2022 7:50 am

stl07 wrote:
Possible add soon from a carrier

Domestic? International? TATL?

TWA302 · Tue Jul 26, 2022 1:43 pm

stl07 wrote:
Possible add soon from a carrier

Are you referencing Parsons' visit to Germany or something else?

reednavy · Tue Jul 26, 2022 3:08 pm

stl07 wrote:
Possible add soon from a carrier

Well that's vague.

Codasco · Tue Jul 26, 2022 4:53 pm

Both inbound and outbound LH flights are cancelled tomorrow, assuming this is due to the ground staff strike in FRA.

TWA302 · Tue Jul 26, 2022 6:09 pm

Codasco wrote:
Both inbound and outbound LH flights are cancelled tomorrow, assuming this is due to the ground staff strike in FRA.

Looks like it. Wow. what a Charlie Foxtrot they have going on https://www.lufthansa.com/xx/en/flight-information.html, Oh, and Go Bombers ! :stirthepot:

stl07 · Tue Jul 26, 2022 6:15 pm

TWA302 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Possible add soon from a carrier

Are you referencing Parsons' visit to Germany or something else?

No--Domestic

I wasn't 100% it was going to be announced today, just wanted to throw it out there.

stl07 · Tue Jul 26, 2022 6:16 pm

strangeplanes wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Possible add soon from a carrier

Domestic? International? TATL?

Domestic and not very exciting desitination

Wneast · Tue Jul 26, 2022 6:19 pm

stl07 wrote:
strangeplanes wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Possible add soon from a carrier

Domestic? International? TATL?

Domestic and not very exciting desitination

Is it avelo ?

phllax · Tue Jul 26, 2022 6:22 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
STLflyer wrote:
According to FlightAware, LH left the gate at 3:59 PM today which looks like their first pre-4PM gate departure. Glad to see they seem to have the kinks worked out and are improving the turnaround times.

And it got in late to STL. They def are much better. They only have 1 late arrival in all of July not including the reflected takeoff flight.

I was on the late arrival on July 6. They held us in FRA for connecting passengers.

Jshank83 · Tue Jul 26, 2022 6:28 pm

phllax wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
STLflyer wrote:
According to FlightAware, LH left the gate at 3:59 PM today which looks like their first pre-4PM gate departure. Glad to see they seem to have the kinks worked out and are improving the turnaround times.

And it got in late to STL. They def are much better. They only have 1 late arrival in all of July not including the reflected takeoff flight.

I was on the late arrival on July 6. They held us in FRA for connecting passengers.

Sure wish Delta would have done that for me today. I’m spending the day/night in Atlanta instead of on the beach. But they did give me a hotel voucher so I guess there is that.

What a mess today with the flooding though. Yikes.

jplatts · Tue Jul 26, 2022 6:34 pm

stl07 wrote:
strangeplanes wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Possible add soon from a carrier

Domestic? International? TATL?

Domestic and not very exciting desitination

Even though WN didn't add any new nonstop routes out of STL in last Thursday's schedule extension, WN adding STL-CVG/IAH/RIC nonstop service, WN resuming daily nonstop service to ABQ/ORF/OAK/PDX/SLC/SAV/SEA out of STL, and WN increasing frequencies on STL-LAX/RDU/SAT/SAN are possibilities.

Possible adds by US3 carriers out of STL include (a) UA adding STL-LAX nonstop service, (b) AA adding STL-JFK nonstop service, and (c) DL adding STL-BOS/LAX/JFK/SEA nonstop service.

stl07 · Tue Jul 26, 2022 8:19 pm

Wneast wrote:
stl07 wrote:
strangeplanes wrote:
Domestic? International? TATL?

Domestic and not very exciting desitination

Is it avelo ?

I had assumed so but they just announced routes today without STL.

Granted I don't think today is the day to announce anything in STL.

Wneast · Tue Jul 26, 2022 8:22 pm

stl07 wrote:
Wneast wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Domestic and not very exciting desitination

Is it avelo ?

I had assumed so but they just announced routes today without STL.

Granted I don't think today is the day to announce anything in STL.

They have more routes tomorrow so I guess we will see.

PITFlyer330 · Tue Jul 26, 2022 8:23 pm

stl07 wrote:
Wneast wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Domestic and not very exciting desitination

Is it avelo ?

I had assumed so but they just announced routes today without STL.

Granted I don't think today is the day to announce anything in STL.

Avelo is announcing routes tomorrow, STL to ILM?

OzarkD9S · Tue Jul 26, 2022 8:50 pm

PITFlyer330 wrote:
stl07 wrote:

Avelo is announcing routes tomorrow, STL to ILM?

Probably something desperately needed like another flight to MCO or LAS.

bretonrlong · Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:16 pm

Would love to see B6 serve JFK from STL someday, but "not very exciting" sounds like that isn't a possibility.

bretonrlong · Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:23 pm

jplatts wrote:
stl07 wrote:
strangeplanes wrote:
Domestic? International? TATL?

Domestic and not very exciting desitination

Even though WN didn't add any new nonstop routes out of STL in last Thursday's schedule extension, WN adding STL-CVG/IAH/RIC nonstop service, WN resuming daily nonstop service to ABQ/ORF/OAK/PDX/SLC/SAV/SEA out of STL, and WN increasing frequencies on STL-LAX/RDU/SAT/SAN are possibilities.

Possible adds by US3 carriers out of STL include (a) UA adding STL-LAX nonstop service, (b) AA adding STL-JFK nonstop service, and (c) DL adding STL-BOS/LAX/JFK/SEA nonstop service.

Has WN served IND or SDF in the past?

dcaproducer · Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:26 pm

PITFlyer330 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Wneast wrote:
Is it avelo ?

I had assumed so but they just announced routes today without STL.

Granted I don't think today is the day to announce anything in STL.

Avelo is announcing routes tomorrow, STL to ILM?

Aren’t all of their routes point to point from their hubs of BUR, HVN and MCO? (Plus the new route out of FLL announced)
If they wanted to think outside the box they’d fly to BOI from STL.

jplatts · Wed Jul 27, 2022 12:13 am

bretonrlong wrote:
Has WN served IND or SDF in the past?

WN did serve IND nonstop from STL 21 years ago, but dropped STL-IND nonstop service in January 2002. WN was originally planning on resuming STL-IND nonstop service in June 2020, but dropped those plans due to the COVID-19 pandemic.

WN was still serving SDF nonstop from STL 9 years ago, but dropped STL-SDF nonstop service in January 2014.

PITFlyer330 · Wed Jul 27, 2022 1:09 am

dcaproducer wrote:
PITFlyer330 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
I had assumed so but they just announced routes today without STL.

Granted I don't think today is the day to announce anything in STL.

Avelo is announcing routes tomorrow, STL to ILM?

Aren’t all of their routes point to point from their hubs of BUR, HVN and MCO? (Plus the new route out of FLL announced)
If they wanted to think outside the box they’d fly to BOI from STL.

no they have BWI ILM and LAS to STS RDD

N383SW · Wed Jul 27, 2022 5:42 pm

bretonrlong wrote:
jplatts wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Domestic and not very exciting desitination

Even though WN didn't add any new nonstop routes out of STL in last Thursday's schedule extension, WN adding STL-CVG/IAH/RIC nonstop service, WN resuming daily nonstop service to ABQ/ORF/OAK/PDX/SLC/SAV/SEA out of STL, and WN increasing frequencies on STL-LAX/RDU/SAT/SAN are possibilities.

Possible adds by US3 carriers out of STL include (a) UA adding STL-LAX nonstop service, (b) AA adding STL-JFK nonstop service, and (c) DL adding STL-BOS/LAX/JFK/SEA nonstop service.

Has WN served IND or SDF in the past?

Yes, they served both but they cut them sometime in the 2000's

jplatts · Thu Jul 28, 2022 12:04 am

Here are the Q1 2022 PDEW's out of STL of the top contiguous U.S. markets traveled to from STL in Q4 2022 that don't currently have daily nonstop service out of STL on WN:
STL-SFO/OAK/SJC - 143 (WN currently has Saturday-only nonstop service to SJC out of STL)
STL-SLC - 143 (WN currently has Saturday-only nonstop service to SLC out of STL)
STL-SEA - 139 (WN currently has Saturday-only nonstop service to SEA out of STL)
STL-SRQ - 78 (WN currently has Saturday-only nonstop service to SRQ out of STL)
STL-SMF - 62 (WN currently has Saturday-only nonstop service to SMF out of STL)
STL-PDX - 51 (WN currently has Saturday-only nonstop service to PDX out of STL)
STL-CHS - 39 (WN currently has Saturday-only nonstop service to CHS out of STL)
STL-PBI - 38
STL-ORF - 34
STL-PSP - 33
STL-SAV - 33
STL-BDL - 30
STL-RIC - 28
STL-TUS - 27
STL-EYW - 25 (EYW not currently served by WN)
STL-RNO - 24
STL-ABQ - 23
STL-ELP - 18
STL-GEG - 17
STL-MYR - 17 (WN currently has Saturday-only nonstop service to MYR out of STL)

Jshank83 · Thu Jul 28, 2022 11:54 am

N383SW wrote:
bretonrlong wrote:
jplatts wrote:

Even though WN didn't add any new nonstop routes out of STL in last Thursday's schedule extension, WN adding STL-CVG/IAH/RIC nonstop service, WN resuming daily nonstop service to ABQ/ORF/OAK/PDX/SLC/SAV/SEA out of STL, and WN increasing frequencies on STL-LAX/RDU/SAT/SAN are possibilities.

Possible adds by US3 carriers out of STL include (a) UA adding STL-LAX nonstop service, (b) AA adding STL-JFK nonstop service, and (c) DL adding STL-BOS/LAX/JFK/SEA nonstop service.

Has WN served IND or SDF in the past?

Yes, they served both but they cut them sometime in the 2000's

I flew TPA-SDF-STL in 2007. Guessing there isn’t much O&D on STL-SDF. But they could run it as a spoke and make it work. Just don’t think it is probably likely

Jshank83 · Mon Aug 01, 2022 6:25 pm

Not really sure what this is. If anyone knows what it means feel free to elaborate.
More money to hire more CBP agents?

BP Announces Additional Partnerships for New and Expanded Services
Frontier Airlines, Inc. (Raleigh–Durham International Airport; Buffalo Niagara International Airport; Kansas City International Airport; and St. Louis Lambert International Airport)

WASHINGTON — U.S. Customs and Border Protection announced today 23 tentative selections for new reimbursable services agreements that will promote cross-border trade and facilitate essential travel to the United States.

These public-private partnerships will allow approved private sector and state and local government entities to reimburse CBP for expanded services for incoming commercial and cargo traffic and international traveler arrivals in Alabama; Arizona; California; Colorado; Delaware; Florida; Georgia; Illinois; Louisiana; Maine; Massachusetts; Michigan; Minnesota; Missouri; New Jersey; New Mexico; New York; North Carolina; Ohio; Pennsylvania; Tennessee; Texas; Virginia; and Washington.

“By pursuing public-private partnerships CBP is able to manage increases in passenger and cargo volumes that impact passenger wait times and cargo backups,” indicated Pete Flores, Executive Assistant Commissioner for Field Operations. “With the Reimbursable Services Program we expand our footprint and facilitate our capacity to serve the public.”

Since the Reimbursable Services Program began in 2013, CBP has expanded it to include 292 stakeholders. The program has provided more than 1 million additional processing hours at the request of CBP’s partners—accounting for the processing of more than 16.2 million travelers and more than 2 million personal and commercial vehicles.

Authorized by Section 481 of the Homeland Security Act of 2002, reimbursable services agreements increase CBP’s ability to provide new or enhanced services on a reimbursable basis by creating partnerships with private sector and government entities. Reimbursable services under this authority include customs, agricultural processing, border security services, immigration inspections and support services at ports of entry.

The statute includes several limitations at CBP-serviced airports. Reimbursable services are limited to overtime costs and support services for airports with 100,000 or more arriving international passengers annually. Airports with fewer than 100,000 arriving international passengers annually may offset CBP for the salaries and expenses of not more than five full-time equivalent CBP officers. Reimbursable services agreements will not replace existing services.

https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/national-m ... services-8

stl07 · Mon Aug 01, 2022 6:51 pm

That's what it looks like to me.

I'm also going to retract the possible new destination rumor I wrote about, my source told me they had incorrect information.

Jshank83 · Mon Aug 01, 2022 7:05 pm

stl07 wrote:
That's what it looks like to me.

I'm also going to retract the possible new destination rumor I wrote about, my source told me they had incorrect information.

Curious if the CBP thing being attached to Frontier it means Frontier might pick up another International destination.

stl07 · Mon Aug 01, 2022 7:25 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
That's what it looks like to me.

I'm also going to retract the possible new destination rumor I wrote about, my source told me they had incorrect information.

Curious if the CBP thing being attached to Frontier it means Frontier might pick up another International destination.

I don't think so since BUF is also mentioned, unless they are going to pick up something as well.

Jshank83 · Mon Aug 01, 2022 7:32 pm

stl07 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
That's what it looks like to me.

I'm also going to retract the possible new destination rumor I wrote about, my source told me they had incorrect information.

Curious if the CBP thing being attached to Frontier it means Frontier might pick up another International destination.

I don't think so since BUF is also mentioned, unless they are going to pick up something as well.

Frontier could always get with Vacation Express or Apple like they do for STL and add something. Frontier started Cancun this year at BUF. Also, could just be them extending the season for CUN there.
Could be nothing but I am a little intrigued. Would love to see them pick up the PVR route

Jshank83 · Tue Aug 02, 2022 5:21 pm

Light commission meeting schedule tomorrow. Only thing of interest to me.

EXECUTIVE SESSION
The Commission may vote to move to hold an Executive Session pursuant to the Revised
Statutes of Missouri, Section 610.021 subsection (2) to discuss certain real estate transactions.

https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... 3-2022.pdf

Jshank83 · Wed Aug 03, 2022 4:54 pm

BLV did NOT get a SCASDP grant.

I think their proposal is a much better use of funds than others that got it, but it is probably hard to be considered "small community"

stl07 · Wed Aug 03, 2022 5:56 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
BLV did NOT get a SCASDP grant.

I think their proposal is a much better use of funds than others that got it, but it is probably hard to be considered "small community"

Good.

The point of the grant is to help small communities. It may mean less service to us, but we are by no means an underserved small community if our main airport has a nonstop to FRA.

Thanks for the update

TWA302 · Wed Aug 03, 2022 6:33 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
BLV did NOT get a SCASDP grant.

I think their proposal is a much better use of funds than others that got it, but it is probably hard to be considered "small community"

Full list of the lucky communities https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/us-department-transportation-announces-169-million-grants-help-small-communities

Jshank83 · Wed Aug 03, 2022 8:40 pm

WN flight diverted to BLV, don't see that often. That will be a short flight coming next.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/wn1059

TWA302 · Wed Aug 03, 2022 8:57 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
WN flight diverted to BLV, don't see that often. That will be a short flight coming next.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/wn1059

These strong storms. I wonder if they get an extra segment? :rotfl:

spauls121 · Wed Aug 03, 2022 9:39 pm

Looks like WN137 is also going there

Jshank83 · Wed Aug 03, 2022 9:39 pm

TWA302 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
WN flight diverted to BLV, don't see that often. That will be a short flight coming next.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/wn1059

These strong storms. I wonder if they get an extra segment?

And another one to BLV WN137 from MDW. Tried to land and had to pull off last second at STL

STLflyer · Wed Aug 03, 2022 9:47 pm

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/GIA ... /CYYR/KSTL

Interest visitor from Indonesia. I assume the plane’s being delivered to somewhere in the US and this is a fuel stop.

T18 · Wed Aug 03, 2022 9:57 pm

STLflyer wrote:
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/GIA8201/history/20220803/1600Z/CYYR/KSTL

Interest visitor from Indonesia. I assume the plane’s being delivered to somewhere in the US and this is a fuel stop.

I saw that bird landing thought it was a UAX bird for a moment but then noticed the livery wasn't right. Don't see many CRJ 1000s in the US.

STLflyer · Thu Aug 04, 2022 12:42 am

The people on F9’s CUN flight did not have a good time today.

An hour on the ground in CUN waiting to take off followed by nearly 90 minutes on the ground here waiting for LH to leave E29

STLflyer · Thu Aug 04, 2022 1:17 am

Also, the 2 WN flights that diverted to BLV spent over 3 hours on the ground there. I wonder if the pax were stuck waiting on the plane, were allowed to wait in the terminal, or bussed over to Lambert.

Jshank83 · Thu Aug 04, 2022 2:26 am

Quincy picks southern. Will continue to have STL and Chicago. It will be the 2nd destination for Southern out of STL

https://www.whig.com/business/local-bus ... 12b06.html

dcaproducer · Thu Aug 04, 2022 12:15 pm

STLflyer wrote:
Also, the 2 WN flights that diverted to BLV spent over 3 hours on the ground there. I wonder if the pax were stuck waiting on the plane, were allowed to wait in the terminal, or bussed over to Lambert.

Since WN doesn't have ground staff or gates agents at BLV I doubt they deplaned. It would be up to the crew to use the manifest to ensure everyone was back onboard.
I've had two diversions to IAD (bound for DCA) this year. Both on DL. We did pull into a gate, but they made it clear if you got off you were on your own and the bags were going to DCA. In both instances we were on the ground from 1.5-2 hours and had to refuel. At IAD DL gate agents had to print new paperwork for the crew since about half of the passengers on each flight got off. This held up departure both times.

These types of diversions aren't all that uncommon due to weather. Although neither of my DCA diversions were caused by weather.

STL really does need to come up with a FIS solution, especially if LH expands to 5x service. It's going to hamper international growth from WN/F9 if they can't get a gate to unload.

Jshank83 · Thu Aug 04, 2022 4:53 pm

STLflyer wrote:
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/GIA8201/history/20220803/1600Z/CYYR/KSTL

Interest visitor from Indonesia. I assume the plane’s being delivered to somewhere in the US and this is a fuel stop.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1475483

Codasco · Thu Aug 04, 2022 5:33 pm

In regards to the ongoing struggle for international gates. It seems like there's a very simple solution that would immediately ease the issue while avoiding using air stairs / buses. E29 and E31 share a glass corridor to funnel people downstairs to FIS. Why wouldn't they just extend that glass over to E33? Seems like something that could be done cheaply and in a matter of weeks to quickly add an extra international gate. You'd lose a little bit of seating space. but there's a lot of seating in that area to begin with.

My understanding is an A330 blocks E31 when parked at E29, but it doesn't look like it would affect a 737 parked at E33.

Jshank83 · Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:03 pm

Codasco wrote:
In regards to the ongoing struggle for international gates. It seems like there's a very simple solution that would immediately ease the issue while avoiding using air stairs / buses. E29 and E31 share a glass corridor to funnel people downstairs to FIS. Why wouldn't they just extend that glass over to E33? Seems like something that could be done cheaply and in a matter of weeks to quickly add an extra international gate. You'd lose a little bit of seating space. but there's a lot of seating in that area to begin with.

My understanding is an A330 blocks E31 when parked at E29, but it doesn't look like it would affect a 737 parked at E33.

E33 has its own entrance to FIS already. There are stairs that go down directly from E33 so it doesn't need to be connected to the other 2. E33 is what WN uses for its CUN flight while LH is still at E29/31

Codasco · Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:38 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
Codasco wrote:
In regards to the ongoing struggle for international gates. It seems like there's a very simple solution that would immediately ease the issue while avoiding using air stairs / buses. E29 and E31 share a glass corridor to funnel people downstairs to FIS. Why wouldn't they just extend that glass over to E33? Seems like something that could be done cheaply and in a matter of weeks to quickly add an extra international gate. You'd lose a little bit of seating space. but there's a lot of seating in that area to begin with.

My understanding is an A330 blocks E31 when parked at E29, but it doesn't look like it would affect a 737 parked at E33.

E33 has its own entrance to FIS already. There are stairs that go down directly from E33 so it doesn't need to be connected to the other 2. E33 is what WN uses for its CUN flight while LH is still at E29/31

Guess there's always airs stairs then! :crowded:

Jshank83 · Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:42 pm

Codasco wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Codasco wrote:
In regards to the ongoing struggle for international gates. It seems like there's a very simple solution that would immediately ease the issue while avoiding using air stairs / buses. E29 and E31 share a glass corridor to funnel people downstairs to FIS. Why wouldn't they just extend that glass over to E33? Seems like something that could be done cheaply and in a matter of weeks to quickly add an extra international gate. You'd lose a little bit of seating space. but there's a lot of seating in that area to begin with.

My understanding is an A330 blocks E31 when parked at E29, but it doesn't look like it would affect a 737 parked at E33.

E33 has its own entrance to FIS already. There are stairs that go down directly from E33 so it doesn't need to be connected to the other 2. E33 is what WN uses for its CUN flight while LH is still at E29/31

Guess there's always airs stairs then!

I still think E24 wouldn't be THAT tough to set up especially if you say it is for WN only based on the floorplans. There is an elevator right there and stairs. That opens up E33 for Frontier while LH is around. But they also probably need to work with Frontier and WN and see about getting them to stagger their international flights a bit while LH is there and have more of a buffer. That would fix most issues. If LH starts a Saturday flight then its going to be a bit crazier.

stltrojan · Thu Aug 04, 2022 11:51 pm

I 2nd and 3rd adding a sterile walkway from E24 to the door to nowhere that exists by E29 from the old MAC 747 days of the 80s/90s and then a GIANT jetway sterile walkway to E34, reconfigure the E34 parking area and boom your good. Gives you 5 FIS gates…

TWA302 · Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:25 pm

Codasco wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Codasco wrote:
In regards to the ongoing struggle for international gates. It seems like there's a very simple solution that would immediately ease the issue while avoiding using air stairs / buses. E29 and E31 share a glass corridor to funnel people downstairs to FIS. Why wouldn't they just extend that glass over to E33? Seems like something that could be done cheaply and in a matter of weeks to quickly add an extra international gate. You'd lose a little bit of seating space. but there's a lot of seating in that area to begin with.

My understanding is an A330 blocks E31 when parked at E29, but it doesn't look like it would affect a 737 parked at E33.

E33 has its own entrance to FIS already. There are stairs that go down directly from E33 so it doesn't need to be connected to the other 2. E33 is what WN uses for its CUN flight while LH is still at E29/31

Guess there's always airs stairs then!

Does anyone know if WN or F9 have retractable stairs in their fleet? I know UA does for front and back on their 738s as we used them in BZE last month. WN used to have them in the old 73 classics.

Jshank83 · Fri Aug 05, 2022 5:28 pm

TWA302 wrote:
Codasco wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:

E33 has its own entrance to FIS already. There are stairs that go down directly from E33 so it doesn't need to be connected to the other 2. E33 is what WN uses for its CUN flight while LH is still at E29/31

Guess there's always airs stairs then!

Does anyone know if WN or F9 have retractable stairs in their fleet? I know UA does for front and back on their 738s as we used them in BZE last month. WN used to have them in the old 73 classics.

Do Airbuses have them? Seeing F9 only is airbus I am not sure if that was an option on those. I don't think any WN do unless some they got from other airlines did and they kept them, but I would doubt it.

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