STLflyer wrote:

stl07 wrote:

jplatts wrote:

Did you mean CUN (Cancun, Mexico) instead of CAN (Guangzhou, China)?

No, Spirit was using the Missouri China Cargo hub tax credit and flying to CAN

15 hours on a Spirit plane would violate the Geneva Conventions on torture.

Seems you have never flown internationally on AA

Speaking of internationally, does anyone know how the LH bookings look? Looking at the seat maps it looks like business class (of all things) is filling up pretty well. Cheapest options are frequently over ORD so at a minimum it doesn’t look like theres a yield issue.

LambertMan wrote:

Speaking of internationally, does anyone know how the LH bookings look? Looking at the seat maps it looks like business class (of all things) is filling up pretty well. Cheapest options are frequently over ORD so at a minimum it doesn’t look like theres a yield issue.

I heard they are good. I get the feeling from everything I have heard it will at least be up to 5x a week by next spring/summer.

Jshank83 wrote:

LambertMan wrote:

Speaking of internationally, does anyone know how the LH bookings look? Looking at the seat maps it looks like business class (of all things) is filling up pretty well. Cheapest options are frequently over ORD so at a minimum it doesn’t look like theres a yield issue.

I heard they are good. I get the feeling from everything I have heard it will at least be up to 5x a week by next spring/summer.

Since the business community strongly supported landing this flight, I'd be curious if LH has any corporate contracts.

Flying it to STL on July 7. Will report then.

2021 4th qtr O&D numbers. These have been halved to one way.
Sorry that they are a mess with the formatting a.net uses

Note: AA took over the largest carrier to NYC from Delta.

Some of the lower ones I didn't go back and paste in their 2019 because nothing was that much of a difference. I think I got in all the ones we have/had nonstops to.

City... 2021...2019... change... %change
New York City, NY (Metropolitan Area) 625 851 -226 -26.56%
Washington, DC (Metropolitan Area) 510 731 -221 -30.23%
Los Angeles, CA (Metropolitan Area) 507.5 557 -50 -8.89%
Dallas/Fort Worth, TX 497 594 -97 -16.33%
Denver, CO 458 565 -107 -18.94%
Orlando, FL 455.5 526 -70 -13.32%
Phoenix, AZ 392.5 426 -34 -7.86%
Atlanta, GA (Metropolitan Area) 384.5 465 -81 -17.31%
Las Vegas, NV 372.5 454 -82 -17.95%
Miami, FL (Metropolitan Area) 345.5 356 -10 -2.81%
Houston, TX 328 341 -13 -3.81%
Chicago, IL 322.5 513 -190 -37.07%
Boston, MA (Metropolitan Area) 269.5 357 -87 -24.40%
San Francisco, CA (Metropolitan Area) 234 373 -139 -37.18%
Tampa, FL (Metropolitan Area) 231 239 -8 -3.35%
Minneapolis/St. Paul, MN 209 359 -150 -41.70%
Charlotte, NC 200 153 47 30.72%
Austin, TX 197 175 23 12.89%
Fort Myers, FL 195 158 37 23.42%
Seattle, WA 191.5 283 -92 -32.33%
Philadelphia, PA 181 255 -74 -29.02%
San Diego, CA 159 255 -96 -37.65%
Detroit, MI 158 249 -91 -36.42%
Salt Lake City, UT 138 150 -12 -8.00%
Raleigh/Durham, NC 117.5 162 -45 -27.47%
San Antonio, TX 111.5 140 -29 -20.36%
New Orleans, LA 110.5 143 -32 -22.46%
Jacksonville, FL 91 77 14 18.18%
Portland, OR 90 126 -36 -28.57%
Sacramento, CA 85.5 117 -31 -26.61%
Cleveland, OH (Metropolitan Area) 81.5 142 -60 -42.40%
Nashville, TN 81 108 -27 -25.00%
Sarasota/Bradenton, FL 70 17 54 324.24%
Pittsburgh, PA 68.5 112 -44 -38.84%
Norfolk, VA (Metropolitan Area) 53 64 -11 -16.54%
Charleston, SC 47.5 61 -14 -22.13%
Milwaukee, WI 47.5 69 -21 -30.66%
Oklahoma City, OK 46 58 -12 -20.00%
Columbus, OH 45 92 -47 -50.82%
Hartford, CT 43.5 101 -57 -56.72%
Omaha, NE 41 93 -52 -55.68%
Panama City, FL 39.5 19 21 113.51%
Richmond, VA 39 49 -10 -20.41%
Savannah, GA 36.5 32 5 15.87%
Pensacola, FL 35 26 9 34.62%
Albuquerque, NM 33.5 42 -9 -20.24%
Kansas City, MO 33.5 82 -48 -58.90%
Tucson, AZ 32.5 35 -2 -5.80%
West Palm Beach/Palm Beach, FL 31 41 -10 -24.39%
Reno, NV 27.5 35 -7 -20.29%
Tulsa, OK 25.5 41 -15 -37.04%
Syracuse, NY 23.5 21 3 11.90%
Boise, ID 23 23 1 2.22%
Valparaiso, FL 22.5 14 9 66.67%
Palm Springs, CA 22.5 18 5 28.57%
Wichita, KS 22 43 -21 -48.84%
Des Moines, IA 21 40 -19 -46.84%
Spokane, WA 20 25 -5 -18.37%
El Paso, TX 20 29 -9 -29.82%
Buffalo, NY 20 29 -9 -29.82%
Myrtle Beach, SC 19.5 13 7 50.00%
Colorado Springs, CO 19.5 17 3 18.18%
Greenville/Spartanburg, SC 19.5 26 -7 -25.00%
Key West, FL 19 16 4 22.58%
Albany, NY 19 27 -8 -29.63%
Little Rock, AR 19 30 -11 -36.67%
Portland, ME 18 24 -6 -25.00%
Birmingham, AL 16.5
Fresno, CA 16.5
Greensboro/High Point, NC 16
Rochester, NY 15.5
Bozeman, MT 15
Grand Rapids, MI 12.5
Wilmington, NC 12
Harrisburg, PA 11.5
Columbia, SC 11
Knoxville, TN 11
Harlingen/San Benito, TX 10.5
Lubbock, TX 10.5
Asheville, NC 10
Burlington, VT 10
Santa Barbara, CA 10
Eugene, OR 9.5
Cincinnati, OH 9 39 -30 -76.92%
Fayetteville, NC 9
Tallahassee, FL 9
Augusta, GA 8.5
Sioux Falls, SD 8.5
Jackson/Vicksburg, MS 8.5
Huntsville, AL 8
Charlottesville, VA 8
Daytona Beach, FL 8
Jacksonville/Camp Lejeune, NC 8
Corpus Christi, TX 7.5
Fargo, ND 7.5
Medford, OR 7.5
Allentown/Bethlehem/Easton, PA 7
Gulfport/Biloxi, MS 7
Madison, WI 7
Mobile, AL 6.5
Billings, MT 6.5
Kalispell, MT 6.5
Mission/McAllen/Edinburg, TX 6.5
Bangor, ME 6
Baton Rouge, LA 6
Grand Junction, CO 6
Gainesville, FL 6
Jackson, WY 6
Midland/Odessa, TX 6
Montrose/Delta, CO 6
Roanoke, VA 6
Scranton/Wilkes-Barre, PA 5.5
Chattanooga, TN 5.5
Missoula, MT 5.5
Bend/Redmond, OR 5.5
Bismarck/Mandan, ND 5
Hilton Head, SC 5
Idaho Falls, ID 5
Pasco/Kennewick/Richland, WA 5
Rapid City, SD 5


Biggest gains - by number
Sarasota/Bradenton, FL 70 17 54 324.24%
Charlotte, NC 200 153 47 30.72%
Fort Myers, FL 195 158 37 23.42%
Austin, TX 197 175 23 12.89%
Panama City, FL 39.5 19 21 113.51%
Jacksonville, FL 91 77 14 18.18%
Valparaiso, FL 22.5 14 9 66.67%
Pensacola, FL 35 26 9 34.62%

Biggest losses - by number
New York City, NY (Metropolitan Area) 625 851 -226 -26.56%
Washington, DC (Metropolitan Area) 510 731 -221 -30.23%
Chicago, IL 322.5 513 -190 -37.07%
Minneapolis/St. Paul, MN 209 359 -150 -41.70%
San Francisco, CA (Metropolitan Area) 234 373 -139 -37.18%
Denver, CO 458 565 -107 -18.94%
Dallas/Fort Worth, TX 497 594 -97 -16.33%
San Diego, CA 159 255 -96 -37.65%
Seattle, WA 191.5 283 -92 -32.33%
Detroit, MI 158 249 -91 -36.42%

Link to my google doc. Pay attention to the tabs
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

STL no longer shows up on Sun Country's route map. I assume that means they are gone for good.

Jshank83 wrote:

STL no longer shows up on Sun Country's route map. I assume that means they are gone for good.

Not a huge loss. I’m surprised they are still flying passengers at this point.

Runway765 wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

STL no longer shows up on Sun Country's route map. I assume that means they are gone for good.

Not a huge loss. I’m surprised they are still flying passengers at this point.

I was not surprised that SY would pull out of STL, especially with the destinations that SY was serving nonstop from STL already having nonstop service out of STL on other airlines along with NK now serving STL.

WN has also already resumed STL-MSP nonstop service.

jplatts wrote:

Runway765 wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

STL no longer shows up on Sun Country's route map. I assume that means they are gone for good.

Not a huge loss. I’m surprised they are still flying passengers at this point.

I was not surprised that SY would pull out of STL, especially with the destinations that SY was serving nonstop from STL already having nonstop service out of STL on other airlines along with NK now serving STL.

WN has also already resumed STL-MSP nonstop service.

I enjoyed SY the two times I flew them after WN cancelled a flight of ours and we had to get to FL. A shame but it s what it is.

Jshank83 wrote:

STL no longer shows up on Sun Country's route map. I assume that means they are gone for good.

They're still selling tickets for some dates to MSP in Sept. Either those will disappear or the schedule extension will continue those flights.

STL March passenger numbers

Month YoY
vs 2021 up 74%
vs 2019 down 14% - MUCH better than previous months

YTD
vs 2021 up 84.4%
vs 2019 down 23%

Last 12 months: 11.59 million passengers

https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... -March.pdf

What happened with the China Cargo hub? Would someone be so kind to explain?

roysoup wrote:

What happened with the China Cargo hub? Would someone be so kind to explain?

Here is a pretty good read on it. https://www.stlmag.com/The-Reluctant-Case-for-a-China-Hub-at-Lambert-St-Louis-International-Airport/

Basically, not everyone was keen with $360 million in tax credits for developers to build warehouses and the work to set up international cargo deals for the region.

TWA302 wrote:

roysoup wrote:

What happened with the China Cargo hub? Would someone be so kind to explain?

Here is a pretty good read on it. https://www.stlmag.com/The-Reluctant-Case-for-a-China-Hub-at-Lambert-St-Louis-International-Airport/

Basically, not everyone was keen with $360 million in tax credits for developers to build warehouses and the work to set up international cargo deals for the region.

So the flights went away right as the subsidy went away. Sounds like PIT could have taken a lesson from us with their passenger side debacles

stl07 wrote:

TWA302 wrote:

roysoup wrote:

What happened with the China Cargo hub? Would someone be so kind to explain?

Here is a pretty good read on it. https://www.stlmag.com/The-Reluctant-Case-for-a-China-Hub-at-Lambert-St-Louis-International-Airport/

Basically, not everyone was keen with $360 million in tax credits for developers to build warehouses and the work to set up international cargo deals for the region.

So the flights went away right as the subsidy went away. Sounds like PIT could have taken a lesson from us with their passenger side debacles

The flights never started.

Jshank83 wrote:

stl07 wrote:

TWA302 wrote:

Here is a pretty good read on it. https://www.stlmag.com/The-Reluctant-Case-for-a-China-Hub-at-Lambert-St-Louis-International-Airport/

Basically, not everyone was keen with $360 million in tax credits for developers to build warehouses and the work to set up international cargo deals for the region.

So the flights went away right as the subsidy went away. Sounds like PIT could have taken a lesson from us with their passenger side debacles

The flights never started.

The wiki at one point had a pic of the China southern plane at lambert

stl07 wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

stl07 wrote:

So the flights went away right as the subsidy went away. Sounds like PIT could have taken a lesson from us with their passenger side debacles

The flights never started.

The wiki at one point had a pic of the China southern plane at lambert

I think there were 1 or 2 kind of promotional flights. Regular scheduled flights never happened.

Flew AA PHX-STL on Tuesday. Lady next to me was flying PHX-STL-BOS. Not a flight I expected connections on but I guess there are some. Might be more this year than usual with all the flight shortages.

EDIT: Quick look at connections times they actually aren't too bad on that route and reverse.

Jshank83 wrote:

Flew AA PHX-STL on Tuesday. Lady next to me was flying PHX-STL-BOS. Not a flight I expected connections on but I guess there are some. Might be more this year than usual with all the flight shortages.

EDIT: Quick look at connections times they actually aren't too bad on that route and reverse.

With an Admiral's club and plenty of space, it wouldn't be a bad idea for AA to try and use a few flights through STL for connections. I used to like this when DL still did this with CVG since it was always empty and a fairly easy connection point to upgrade to points west.

stl07 wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

stl07 wrote:

So the flights went away right as the subsidy went away. Sounds like PIT could have taken a lesson from us with their passenger side debacles

The flights never started.

The wiki at one point had a pic of the China southern plane at lambert

I also saw a picture of China Cargo (affiliated to China Eastern?) plane at Lambert. There was a sign "Welcome to Saint Louis", but in Mandarin. Watergate and everything, it seemed like a huge deal to me.

Jshank83 wrote:

Flew AA PHX-STL on Tuesday. Lady next to me was flying PHX-STL-BOS. Not a flight I expected connections on but I guess there are some. Might be more this year than usual with all the flight shortages.

EDIT: Quick look at connections times they actually aren't too bad on that route and reverse.

With a properly managed airport, I don't see why that can't be the case. In my opinion, STL has one of, if not the, best geographical location to compete for a transfer hub.

roysoup wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

Flew AA PHX-STL on Tuesday. Lady next to me was flying PHX-STL-BOS. Not a flight I expected connections on but I guess there are some. Might be more this year than usual with all the flight shortages.

EDIT: Quick look at connections times they actually aren't too bad on that route and reverse.

With a properly managed airport, I don't see why that can't be the case. In my opinion, STL has one of, if not the, best geographical location to compete for a transfer hub.

I can't remember which AA exec recently said that closing the STL hub was a mistake.

OzarkD9S wrote:

roysoup wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

Flew AA PHX-STL on Tuesday. Lady next to me was flying PHX-STL-BOS. Not a flight I expected connections on but I guess there are some. Might be more this year than usual with all the flight shortages.

EDIT: Quick look at connections times they actually aren't too bad on that route and reverse.

With a properly managed airport, I don't see why that can't be the case. In my opinion, STL has one of, if not the, best geographical location to compete for a transfer hub.

I can't remember which AA exec recently said that closing the STL hub was a mistake.

I believe that was Raju Vasa..

BHMNONREV wrote:

OzarkD9S wrote:

roysoup wrote:

With a properly managed airport, I don't see why that can't be the case. In my opinion, STL has one of, if not the, best geographical location to compete for a transfer hub.

I can't remember which AA exec recently said that closing the STL hub was a mistake.

I believe that was Raju Vasa..

Sorry, Vasa Raju

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/amer ... print.html

roysoup wrote:

stl07 wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

The flights never started.

The wiki at one point had a pic of the China southern plane at lambert

I also saw a picture of China Cargo (affiliated to China Eastern?) plane at Lambert. There was a sign "Welcome to Saint Louis", but in Mandarin. Watergate and everything, it seemed like a huge deal to me.

I was out spotting the first day China Cargo 777F arrived. They had a water cannon salute, and I am sure the usual speeches. I wish I had my camera. Too bad that operation ended up being just a few flights.

BHMNONREV wrote:

BHMNONREV wrote:

OzarkD9S wrote:

I can't remember which AA exec recently said that closing the STL hub was a mistake.

I believe that was Raju Vasa..

Sorry, Vasa Raju

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/amer ... print.html

Is he some sort of big shot at AA?

stl07 wrote:

BHMNONREV wrote:

BHMNONREV wrote:

I believe that was Raju Vasa..

Sorry, Vasa Raju

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/amer ... print.html

Is he some sort of big shot at AA?

CCO. Chief commercial officer.

Jshank83 wrote:

stl07 wrote:

BHMNONREV wrote:

Sorry, Vasa Raju

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/amer ... print.html

Is he some sort of big shot at AA?

CCO. Chief commercial officer.

I still find it interesting that right around the time he made those comments AA invested in STL. 3 new destinations from nothing. Plus finally getting mainline on those northeastern routes.

roysoup wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

Flew AA PHX-STL on Tuesday. Lady next to me was flying PHX-STL-BOS. Not a flight I expected connections on but I guess there are some. Might be more this year than usual with all the flight shortages.

EDIT: Quick look at connections times they actually aren't too bad on that route and reverse.

With a properly managed airport, I don't see why that can't be the case. In my opinion, STL has one of, if not the, best geographical location to compete for a transfer hub.

TW and Ozark made it work for decades. (TW’s financial problems were another issue) WN makes it work today.

In Lamberts current state, it could be a relatively inexpensive cross country focus city for AA. For example, with all of the frequencies AA flies from DCA-STL connections further west would be great. AA only has a couple of perimeter exemptions at DCA, with one daily to LAX and one to PHX. It would be some niche connections.

Well I'd say Southwest mostly makes it work today. If Southwest sat down and purposely strategized their flows through Lambert, you'd of course could have a much bigger operation here, but they're spread out between other things such as Nashville, Midway, increasing stage lengths out of places such as Denver and Baltimore over the past several years and the growth of point to point services out of many of their cities.

TWA/Ozark made it work because the dynamics of the industry at the time. You had a wide acceptance (mostly) or use of 19 seater prop planes on a number of routes - a sweet spot for many cities around STL - Decatur, Burlington, Marion, Cape Giradeau, Kirksville, etc. - many places which can't support a 50 seat regional jet. And then at the time, you didn't have 50 or 70 seat regional jets flying routes practically 2-3 hours across the country and into major cities.

Plus you've also seen the growth of carriers such as Allegiant - coming into the Peorias and Cedar Rapids and Springfield/Bransons of the world - managing to make 3 to 5 nonstops throughout the year entirely dependent upon demand and seasonal flows which would have absolutely grabbed traffic from the TWA major feeder cities.

If TWA was somehow still around today, I think you'd see an operation comparable to the size of Delta out of SLC or perhaps Frontier out of Denver. Outside of that, if TWA would have financially stayed afloat in the late 2000s, I think it would have shrunk itself down to into a desperate need for a merger with another carrier in order to retain a size and scale competitive to the other carriers or gone into the aforementioned Frontier model - with a few flights into its hub and offering point to point to cities from its spokes.

stlgph wrote:

Well I'd say Southwest mostly makes it work today. If Southwest sat down and purposely strategized their flows through Lambert, you'd of course could have a much bigger operation here, but they're spread out between other things such as Nashville, Midway, increasing stage lengths out of places such as Denver and Baltimore over the past several years and the growth of point to point services out of many of their cities.

TWA/Ozark made it work because the dynamics of the industry at the time. You had a wide acceptance (mostly) or use of 19 seater prop planes on a number of routes - a sweet spot for many cities around STL - Decatur, Burlington, Marion, Cape Giradeau, Kirksville, etc. - many places which can't support a 50 seat regional jet. And then at the time, you didn't have 50 or 70 seat regional jets flying routes practically 2-3 hours across the country and into major cities.

Plus you've also seen the growth of carriers such as Allegiant - coming into the Peorias and Cedar Rapids and Springfield/Bransons of the world - managing to make 3 to 5 nonstops throughout the year entirely dependent upon demand and seasonal flows which would have absolutely grabbed traffic from the TWA major feeder cities.

If TWA was somehow still around today, I think you'd see an operation comparable to the size of Delta out of SLC or perhaps Frontier out of Denver. Outside of that, if TWA would have financially stayed afloat in the late 2000s, I think it would have shrunk itself down to into a desperate need for a merger with another carrier in order to retain a size and scale competitive to the other carriers or gone into the aforementioned Frontier model - with a few flights into its hub and offering point to point to cities from its spokes.

Great post Gavin!

100% Agree, Southwest makes it work well in STL and could be larger if not for BNA, MDW, etc etc.

So much what if's with TWA.

There was talk of an America West/TWA Merger, keeping PHX, LAS, STL, JFK etc.

CMH would have been an odd one...

I do wonder what TWA would look like with a merger and how much of STL would have been around. In addition to the cities feeding STL. Would those EAS cities have seen another station in addition to STL?

I am flying Cape Air MWA-STL tomorrow to connect to AA back to Chicago, sure wish it was still Trans World Express (I hope at least...weather is going to be bad...)

Alex

Thanks. Enjoy the flight tomorrow - nice that STL to Marion exists in some shape and form. Hope it happens for you

stlgph wrote:

Thanks. Enjoy the flight tomorrow - nice that STL to Marion exists in some shape and form. Hope it happens for you

I think, speaking for MWA, it is remarkable that MWA-STL has existed consistently since what, the 1950's? When Ozark added MWA?

Except for a brief moment for 7-8 months in 2007 when FAA shut down Regions Air and we had no service...it's been quite consistent!

I have flown MWA-STL over 100 times as Trans States, Corporate, Regions Air, Great Lakes and now Cape Air.

I have Amtrak from Carbondale as back up if the flights don't work out, dang Spring Weather Storms!

Alex

Now these are the agenda items I like to see.

A. Approval of an Airport Use and Lease Agreement (“AUA”) with Air Canada Airlines

B. Approval of an Airport Use and Lease Agreement (“AUA”) with Deutsche Lufthansa AG (“Lufthansa Airlines”)

https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... Agenda.pdf

TW was also flying DC9’s into markets that barely support an RJ today, but as you mention totally different time/market at the time. I won’t get into the financial decisions behind the scenes that causes many of TW’s issues.

My main point is that STL has a geographic location that is good for connecting traffic and, while old, has facilities and capacity to handle more flights. I think WN will eventually get back to growth.

The market also needs to grow O&D and grow the economy, but that’s a different debate.

Jshank83 wrote:

Now these are the agenda items I like to see.

A. Approval of an Airport Use and Lease Agreement (“AUA”) with Air Canada Airlines

B. Approval of an Airport Use and Lease Agreement (“AUA”) with Deutsche Lufthansa AG (“Lufthansa Airlines”)

https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... Agenda.pdf

I find it odd they’re awarding their marketing and PR contract to a firm out of Houston. I guess no firm in STL provided a competitive bid.
I hate it when I see local airports, tourism offices, etc use out of town vendors for things like PR.

Frankly, I have mixed feelings about AA, or just legacy carriers in general. I have no problem with ULCC, LCC, or premium airlines. Speaking from a traveller, I detest the idea of having to pay extra for my bags when I have already paid a substantial amount for ticket fare.

roysoup wrote:

Frankly, I have mixed feelings about AA, or just legacy carriers in general. I have no problem with ULCC, LCC, or premium airlines. Speaking from a traveller, I detest the idea of having to pay extra for my bags when I have already paid a substantial amount for ticket fare.

And no, southwest did not pay me, lol.

roysoup wrote:

roysoup wrote:

Frankly, I have mixed feelings about AA, or just legacy carriers in general. I have no problem with ULCC, LCC, or premium airlines. Speaking from a traveller, I detest the idea of having to pay extra for my bags when I have already paid a substantial amount for ticket fare.

And no, southwest did not pay me, lol.

I just factor it into the ticket if AA is $50 cheaper than WN even paying for a bag I save money.

May 2022 Frequency update

New/Returning flights
AC YYZ
Apple Vacations/Viva PVR
NK MYR (only 3 flights then it drops back off)

Might start comparing to 2021 instead of 2019 starting next month

Flights per week May
May 2022 (April 2022) May 2019 (%vs May 2019)
WN 657 (630) 812 (-19%)
AA 238 (234) 259 (-8.1%)
DL 142 (142) 197 (-27.9%)
UA 137 (127) 200 (-31.5%)
NK 24 (42) XX
F9 33 (31) 38 (-13.2.%)
AS 14 (7) 21 (-33%)
AC 7 (0) 21 (-66%)

G4 20 (24) 19 (+5.3%) - vs 2021 since it was better than 2019

Total STL 1361 (1322) 1713 (-20.5%)

May 2021 Seats based on Monday (May 2019 seats) vs May 2019
AA 4175 (4219) -1%
DL 2512 (3219) -22%
UA 1389 (1736) -20%

Notes:
207 peak flights a day for the airport. Slowing making its way back. That is the highest so far since covid.

DL - 757s leave again. A321 on ATL though. SLC all A220
AS - 2nd daily to SEA added
AA - 10% jump in seats vs April on Mondays. Almost back to 2019 again. Some upgrades to aircraft mostly. CLT gets 2 extra frequency, DCA loses one
WN - Had some flights added back in so it peaks at 99 a day now... Soo close to 100.
F9 - ATL back on the schedule. MIA goes on a break
G4 - AZA/FLL/CHS go on a break
UA - ORD gets an extra daily
NK - Flights from April about halved. MCO goes to A321


Full Spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

SFO restart on UA pushed back to January…. We are going to have more flights to Germany a week than the Bay Area this summer.

Jshank83 wrote:

SFO restart on UA pushed back to January…. We are going to have more flights to Germany a week than the Bay Area this summer.

I wonder if that is more of a bay area problem and less of an STL problem. Didn't a bunch of people move out of there once WFH became acceptable

stl07 wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

SFO restart on UA pushed back to January…. We are going to have more flights to Germany a week than the Bay Area this summer.

I wonder if that is more of a bay area problem and less of an STL problem. Didn't a bunch of people move out of there once WFH became acceptable

I think you’re right but it’s not just that. Big tech isn’t traveling as much even for those working in the office.

stl07 wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

SFO restart on UA pushed back to January…. We are going to have more flights to Germany a week than the Bay Area this summer.

I wonder if that is more of a bay area problem and less of an STL problem. Didn't a bunch of people move out of there once WFH became acceptable

I could buy that if literally every other city wasn’t on deck to get their SFO service back before us. Even Omaha didn’t get pushed back… yet. Most already have it back already.

I really don’t get it.

Jshank83 wrote:

stl07 wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

SFO restart on UA pushed back to January…. We are going to have more flights to Germany a week than the Bay Area this summer.

I wonder if that is more of a bay area problem and less of an STL problem. Didn't a bunch of people move out of there once WFH became acceptable

I could buy that if literally every other city wasn’t on deck to get their SFO service back before us. Even Omaha didn’t get pushed back… yet. Most already have it back already.

I really don’t get it.

At this point, we should court Alaska to get on it

stl07 wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

SFO restart on UA pushed back to January…. We are going to have more flights to Germany a week than the Bay Area this summer.

I wonder if that is more of a bay area problem and less of an STL problem. Didn't a bunch of people move out of there once WFH became acceptable

It seems to be more of a midwest thing. MSP,DTW,MKE & MSN haven't gotten it back either.

pmanni1 wrote:

stl07 wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

SFO restart on UA pushed back to January…. We are going to have more flights to Germany a week than the Bay Area this summer.

I wonder if that is more of a bay area problem and less of an STL problem. Didn't a bunch of people move out of there once WFH became acceptable

It seems to be more of a midwest thing. MSP,DTW,MKE & MSN haven't gotten it back either.

In this context, doesn’t “Midwest thing” really mean “stage length thing?” Don’t forget that for big chunks of the past 20 years, SFO has been STL’s longest flight.

stl07 wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

SFO restart on UA pushed back to January…. We are going to have more flights to Germany a week than the Bay Area this summer.

I wonder if that is more of a bay area problem and less of an STL problem. Didn't a bunch of people move out of there once WFH became acceptable

For every out, there is an in. There are no/few empty housing units. Someone sells. Someone buys. You move out. I move in.

pmanni1 wrote:

stl07 wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

SFO restart on UA pushed back to January…. We are going to have more flights to Germany a week than the Bay Area this summer.

I wonder if that is more of a bay area problem and less of an STL problem. Didn't a bunch of people move out of there once WFH became acceptable

It seems to be more of a midwest thing. MSP,DTW,MKE & MSN haven't gotten it back either.

WN is serving MCI-OAK daily though, and MSP/DTW-Bay Area is served pretty extensively by DL.

Given its presence in STL, you would think WN should be serving the Bay Area at least 1x daily. STL-Bay Area is larger O&D wise than MCI-Bay Area, it was close to 250 PDEW last summer & was 400 PDEW pre-covid