St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2022

Jshank83 · Fri Jul 15, 2022 10:11 pm

jmy007 wrote:
Unless I am reading this wrong, Flight Aware showed today's LH 448 arrive about 2 1/2 hours ago, but tonight's LH449 return is canceled. Anyone know why? And what remote stand are they going to park it at?

Maintenance issue.

reednavy · Fri Jul 15, 2022 11:13 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
jmy007 wrote:
Unless I am reading this wrong, Flight Aware showed today's LH 448 arrive about 2 1/2 hours ago, but tonight's LH449 return is canceled. Anyone know why? And what remote stand are they going to park it at?

Maintenance issue.

Oof, and there's our first one. Now commence rebooking hell.

STLflyer · Fri Jul 15, 2022 11:59 pm

Oh man, I wonder how much of a shit show it is right now.

Will this eventually fly back empty or will they cancel 448 one day and fly this one back as 449? Do they even have any A330 mechanics here?

Jshank83 · Sat Jul 16, 2022 12:57 am

STLflyer wrote:
Oh man, I wonder how much of a shit show it is right now.

Will this eventually fly back empty or will they cancel 448 one day and fly this one back as 449? Do they even have any A330 mechanics here?

That was my thinking. I wonder if they fly this one back on Sunday and cancel the inbound? Or maybe they rebook people on it tomorrow?

Probably a couple options. Bring one down from ORD or maybe one of the cargo companies has someone they can borrow?

Codasco · Sat Jul 16, 2022 1:43 am

Someone on the St. Louis subreddit just said they were sent to ORD but seemed to be handled smoothly.

Jshank83 · Sat Jul 16, 2022 1:45 am

Codasco wrote:
Someone on the St. Louis subreddit just said they were sent to ORD but seemed to be handled smoothly.

That’s good. With as little flights as UA has here I was curious about them getting up there. But I guess even if they have to throw them on AA it is what it is.

Codasco · Sat Jul 16, 2022 1:47 am

Jshank83 wrote:
Codasco wrote:
Someone on the St. Louis subreddit just said they were sent to ORD but seemed to be handled smoothly.

That’s good. With as little flights as UA has here I was curious about them getting up there. But I guess even if they have to throw them on AA it is what it is.

That's what I was wondering. I would have assumed they'd be working with UA but it simply might not have been possible.

Jshank83 · Sat Jul 16, 2022 2:25 am

January International loads
WN CUN 74.5%
F9 CUN 63.5%
F9 CUN 62%
F9 PUJ 57%
NK CUN 39% --- yikes

Jshank83 · Sat Jul 16, 2022 2:28 am

Codasco wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Codasco wrote:
Someone on the St. Louis subreddit just said they were sent to ORD but seemed to be handled smoothly.

That’s good. With as little flights as UA has here I was curious about them getting up there. But I guess even if they have to throw them on AA it is what it is.

That's what I was wondering. I would have assumed they'd be working with UA but it simply might not have been possible.

Looks like UA had 126 seats to ORD after about 330pm so even if loads were light there that wasn't going to make a huge dent.

Jshank83 · Sun Jul 17, 2022 2:22 pm

LH flight today is on its way. Friday’s plane still on the ground. Maybe they have parts for it on todays plane?

STLflyer · Sun Jul 17, 2022 3:20 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
LH flight today is on its way. Friday’s plane still on the ground. Maybe they have parts for it on todays plane?

That was my assumption too, there are probably parts and/or mechanics on that plane.

With airlines stretched thin and summer travel being a total shitshow, having an A330 out of service for a few days might be causing some other cancelations and delays at LH.

Does anyone have any details other than mechanical? The inbound seemed to be uneventful, I wonder what broke and when.

Jshank83 · Sun Jul 17, 2022 3:26 pm

STLflyer wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
LH flight today is on its way. Friday’s plane still on the ground. Maybe they have parts for it on todays plane?

That was my assumption too, there are probably parts and/or mechanics on that plane.

With airlines stretched thin and summer travel being a total shitshow, having an A330 out of service for a few days might be causing some other cancelations and delays at LH.

Does anyone have any details other than mechanical? The inbound seemed to be uneventful, I wonder what broke and when.

It’s hydraulic related

Jshank83 · Sun Jul 17, 2022 6:33 pm

BLV numbers for April

Passengers
up 57.3% vs April 2021
up 28.5% on the year vs 2021

Loads - combined both ways
PIE 92%
PGD 89% (inbound 94%)
VPS 88.5%
SFB 88%
LAS 85% (outbound 91%)
SRQ 85% (inbound 90.5%) - This route finally seems to be getting good loads.
AZA 81%
JAX 76.5%
FLL 72%
CHS 61.5% - first month of season
SAV 60.5%

Codasco · Mon Jul 18, 2022 8:22 pm

Looks like D-AIKP is on its way back to FRA at 4 today and is scheduled for use tomorrow morning.

STLflyer · Mon Jul 18, 2022 9:48 pm

Codasco wrote:
Looks like D-AIKP is on its way back to FRA at 4 today and is scheduled for use tomorrow morning.

I saw that, it’s operating as the usual LH449 and LH.com even shows it departed from E29.

Were there pax on this flight? Maybe some people who couldn’t get rebooked Friday or didn’t mind waiting until today?

Codasco · Mon Jul 18, 2022 9:54 pm

STLflyer wrote:
Codasco wrote:
Looks like D-AIKP is on its way back to FRA at 4 today and is scheduled for use tomorrow morning.

I saw that, it’s operating as the usual LH449 and LH.com even shows it departed from E29.

Were there pax on this flight? Maybe some people who couldn’t get rebooked Friday or didn’t mind waiting until today?

I wish I had looked earlier so I could try to book it and see if it was bookable and what the price was.

Jshank83 · Tue Jul 19, 2022 4:03 am

STL loads for April
combined both ways

AS
SEA 91.5%

AA
LAX 91.5% - would be nice to see a 2nd frequency back on this
PHX 91% (inbound 95%)
CLT 87%
DFW 87%
MIA 86%
PHL 82%
DCA 79%
ORD 71.5% -AA/Envoy only
AUS 68% - making decent gains every month. Hopefully by summer we see this close or above 80%
LGA 57%
BOS 55.5% - getting better but slow.. Same passenger numbers on a E175 would be above 80%, which is probably a better plane for this route at the moment

DL
ATL 83.5%
SLC 83.5%
MSP 81%
DTW 77.5%
LGA 66%

F9
LAS 81.5%
MCO 78%
DEN 69%
MIA 60%
ATL 57%

NK - still not great but at least a couple routes are improving to decent
MCO 81.5%
PHX 79%
LAS 76.5% (inbound 88.5%)
LAX 75.5%
TPA 74.5% (inbound 93%)
FLL 61.5%
RSW 59.5%

UA
DEN 88.5%
ORD 86.5% -partial due to regionals
IAH 85%
IAD 79%
EWR 72.5%

WN
SAN 96% (inbound 98%)
JAX 95%
SJC 94% (only one flight each way)
SNA 93.5% (outbound 95.5%)
TPA 93.5%
MCO 93%
RSW 92.5% (inbound 96%)
LAX 92.5%
SMF 92%
MIA 92% (inbound 95.5%)
SAT 91.5%
LAS 91%
OMA 91%
DEN 90.5%
PHX 90%
OKC 90%
MSY 89.5% (outbound 93%)
LGB 89.5%
ECP 89%
VPS 88.5%
PNS 88%
PHL 88%
RDU 87.5%
ATL 87.5%
SRQ 87.5%
SJU 87% (only one flight each way)
FLL 86%
MCI 86%
DAL 85.5%
BNA 85.5%
CLT 85%
HOU 84.5%
AUS 84%
MSP 84%
BOS 82.5%
CLE 82%
BWI 81%
PIT 80.5%
MKE 80%
DTW 77%
CMH 77%
MYR 76.5%
DCA 75%
MDW 73.5%
ICT 72%
LIT 71.5%
DSM 68%
TUL 65%
LGA 64%

pmanni1 · Tue Jul 19, 2022 10:53 am

Jshank83 wrote:
STL loads for April
combined both ways

AS
SEA 91.5%

AA
LAX 91.5% - would be nice to see a 2nd frequency back on this
PHX 91% (inbound 95%)
CLT 87%
DFW 87%
MIA 86%
PHL 82%
DCA 79%
ORD 71.5% -AA/Envoy only
AUS 68% - making decent gains every month. Hopefully by summer we see this close or above 80%
LGA 57%
BOS 55.5% - getting better but slow.. Same passenger numbers on a E175 would be above 80%, which is probably a better plane for this route at the moment

DL
ATL 83.5%
SLC 83.5%
MSP 81%
DTW 77.5%
LGA 66%

F9
LAS 81.5%
MCO 78%
DEN 69%
MIA 60%
ATL 57%

NK - still not great but at least a couple routes are improving to decent
MCO 81.5%
PHX 79%
LAS 76.5% (inbound 88.5%)
LAX 75.5%
TPA 74.5% (inbound 93%)
FLL 61.5%
RSW 59.5%

UA
DEN 88.5%
ORD 86.5% -partial due to regionals
IAH 85%
IAD 79%
EWR 72.5%

WN
SAN 96% (inbound 98%)
JAX 95%
SJC 94% (only one flight each way)
SNA 93.5% (outbound 95.5%)
TPA 93.5%
MCO 93%
RSW 92.5% (inbound 96%)
LAX 92.5%
SMF 92%
MIA 92% (inbound 95.5%)
SAT 91.5%
LAS 91%
OMA 91%
DEN 90.5%
PHX 90%
OKC 90%
MSY 89.5% (outbound 93%)
LGB 89.5%
ECP 89%
VPS 88.5%
PNS 88%
PHL 88%
RDU 87.5%
ATL 87.5%
SRQ 87.5%
SJU 87% (only one flight each way)
FLL 86%
MCI 86%
DAL 85.5%
BNA 85.5%
CLT 85%
HOU 84.5%
AUS 84%
MSP 84%
BOS 82.5%
CLE 82%
BWI 81%
PIT 80.5%
MKE 80%
DTW 77%
CMH 77%
MYR 76.5%
DCA 75%
MDW 73.5%
ICT 72%
LIT 71.5%
DSM 68%
TUL 65%
LGA 64%

AA seems committed to the BOS flights as there are no changes to the schedule or aircraft for the rest of the schedule. Perhaps an earlier departure from STL would help. The 11am first departure isn't that desirable for business travelers.

Jshank83 · Tue Jul 19, 2022 3:55 pm

pmanni1 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
STL loads for April
combined both ways

AS
SEA 91.5%

AA
LAX 91.5% - would be nice to see a 2nd frequency back on this
PHX 91% (inbound 95%)
CLT 87%
DFW 87%
MIA 86%
PHL 82%
DCA 79%
ORD 71.5% -AA/Envoy only
AUS 68% - making decent gains every month. Hopefully by summer we see this close or above 80%
LGA 57%
BOS 55.5% - getting better but slow.. Same passenger numbers on a E175 would be above 80%, which is probably a better plane for this route at the moment

DL
ATL 83.5%
SLC 83.5%
MSP 81%
DTW 77.5%
LGA 66%

F9
LAS 81.5%
MCO 78%
DEN 69%
MIA 60%
ATL 57%

NK - still not great but at least a couple routes are improving to decent
MCO 81.5%
PHX 79%
LAS 76.5% (inbound 88.5%)
LAX 75.5%
TPA 74.5% (inbound 93%)
FLL 61.5%
RSW 59.5%

UA
DEN 88.5%
ORD 86.5% -partial due to regionals
IAH 85%
IAD 79%
EWR 72.5%

WN
SAN 96% (inbound 98%)
JAX 95%
SJC 94% (only one flight each way)
SNA 93.5% (outbound 95.5%)
TPA 93.5%
MCO 93%
RSW 92.5% (inbound 96%)
LAX 92.5%
SMF 92%
MIA 92% (inbound 95.5%)
SAT 91.5%
LAS 91%
OMA 91%
DEN 90.5%
PHX 90%
OKC 90%
MSY 89.5% (outbound 93%)
LGB 89.5%
ECP 89%
VPS 88.5%
PNS 88%
PHL 88%
RDU 87.5%
ATL 87.5%
SRQ 87.5%
SJU 87% (only one flight each way)
FLL 86%
MCI 86%
DAL 85.5%
BNA 85.5%
CLT 85%
HOU 84.5%
AUS 84%
MSP 84%
BOS 82.5%
CLE 82%
BWI 81%
PIT 80.5%
MKE 80%
DTW 77%
CMH 77%
MYR 76.5%
DCA 75%
MDW 73.5%
ICT 72%
LIT 71.5%
DSM 68%
TUL 65%
LGA 64%

AA seems committed to the BOS flights as there are no changes to the schedule or aircraft for the rest of the schedule. Perhaps an earlier departure from STL would help. The 11am first departure isn't that desirable for business travelers.

Yes, I don't think they will pull a F9 and stop it anytime soon. They did cut a frequency down to 1 a day over winter so maybe we see that again, but I am guessing they can make it work. I'll be interested to see summer numbers, I would think they will be much better.

I do think the AUS flight benefited from being switched from 9 pm to 7 pm for the last flight, so like you say maybe if they can move the morning flight early that will help. Get you to Boston before noon.

dcaproducer · Tue Jul 19, 2022 7:19 pm

I think AA could support another frequency on LAX.

Overall the loads are pretty good. It would be nice to see AS add to the market. I’m also a little surprised DL hasn’t tried SEA from STL.
I know it’s a small sample size, but my two DL LGA inbound/outbound flights last week were full. CR7 in and 9 out. Tue early afternoon arrival and Thur early am departure.

stl07 · Tue Jul 19, 2022 7:25 pm

Keep in mind for the BOS flight a lot of the traffic is BOS-STL, especially in Bio/AgTech (Pfizer is big on this route) . The airline might have figured out that keeping the BOS-STL at an 8am departure is more beneficial than having STL-BOS as an early departure.

jplatts · Tue Jul 19, 2022 7:34 pm

dcaproducer wrote:
I think AA could support another frequency on LAX.

Overall the loads are pretty good. It would be nice to see AS add to the market. I’m also a little surprised DL hasn’t tried SEA from STL.

I agree that STL can support increased nonstop service to LAX on AA, especially with both AA and WN having fewer nonstop flights to LAX from STL than they did 3 years ago.

I can understand DL not serving SEA nonstop from STL with DL having completely dropped a few other domestic nonstop routes out of SEA such as SEA-IND/MKE/MSY.

STL can also support additional daily nonstops to LAX on WN and the return of daily WN nonstop service to OAK/PDX/SEA.

WN has also already recently restored staffing back to pre-pandemic levels according to a news release at https://www.swamedia.com/releases/release-1706d0b5356d8c6f849af95ba52dabe4-southwest-airlines-achieves-hiring-milestone-by-increasing-employee-count-beyond-pre-pandemic-2019-levels, and the restoration of WN staffing to pre-pandemic levels was also recently discussed over in the Southwest Fleet/Network Thread at viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1468671&start=1100#p23385035.

Will WN take advantage of the opportunity that is there to add more nonstop flights to the West Coast out of STL with WN now having more staff?

Jshank83 · Tue Jul 19, 2022 8:11 pm

jplatts wrote:
Will WN take advantage of the opportunity that is there to add more nonstop flights to the West Coast out of STL with WN now having more staff?

If you would call and ask them that would be great.

bretonrlong · Tue Jul 19, 2022 10:22 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
pmanni1 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
STL loads for April
combined both ways

AS
SEA 91.5%

AA
LAX 91.5% - would be nice to see a 2nd frequency back on this
PHX 91% (inbound 95%)
CLT 87%
DFW 87%
MIA 86%
PHL 82%
DCA 79%
ORD 71.5% -AA/Envoy only
AUS 68% - making decent gains every month. Hopefully by summer we see this close or above 80%
LGA 57%
BOS 55.5% - getting better but slow.. Same passenger numbers on a E175 would be above 80%, which is probably a better plane for this route at the moment

DL
ATL 83.5%
SLC 83.5%
MSP 81%
DTW 77.5%
LGA 66%

F9
LAS 81.5%
MCO 78%
DEN 69%
MIA 60%
ATL 57%

NK - still not great but at least a couple routes are improving to decent
MCO 81.5%
PHX 79%
LAS 76.5% (inbound 88.5%)
LAX 75.5%
TPA 74.5% (inbound 93%)
FLL 61.5%
RSW 59.5%

UA
DEN 88.5%
ORD 86.5% -partial due to regionals
IAH 85%
IAD 79%
EWR 72.5%

WN
SAN 96% (inbound 98%)
JAX 95%
SJC 94% (only one flight each way)
SNA 93.5% (outbound 95.5%)
TPA 93.5%
MCO 93%
RSW 92.5% (inbound 96%)
LAX 92.5%
SMF 92%
MIA 92% (inbound 95.5%)
SAT 91.5%
LAS 91%
OMA 91%
DEN 90.5%
PHX 90%
OKC 90%
MSY 89.5% (outbound 93%)
LGB 89.5%
ECP 89%
VPS 88.5%
PNS 88%
PHL 88%
RDU 87.5%
ATL 87.5%
SRQ 87.5%
SJU 87% (only one flight each way)
FLL 86%
MCI 86%
DAL 85.5%
BNA 85.5%
CLT 85%
HOU 84.5%
AUS 84%
MSP 84%
BOS 82.5%
CLE 82%
BWI 81%
PIT 80.5%
MKE 80%
DTW 77%
CMH 77%
MYR 76.5%
DCA 75%
MDW 73.5%
ICT 72%
LIT 71.5%
DSM 68%
TUL 65%
LGA 64%

AA seems committed to the BOS flights as there are no changes to the schedule or aircraft for the rest of the schedule. Perhaps an earlier departure from STL would help. The 11am first departure isn't that desirable for business travelers.

Yes, I don't think they will pull a F9 and stop it anytime soon. They did cut a frequency down to 1 a day over winter so maybe we see that again, but I am guessing they can make it work. I'll be interested to see summer numbers, I would think they will be much better.

I do think the AUS flight benefited from being switched from 9 pm to 7 pm for the last flight, so like you say maybe if they can move the morning flight early that will help. Get you to Boston before noon.

Looking at the Spirit loads reminded me. My family is getting ready to book STL - RSW flights for Feb through Mar '23. It looks like Spirit has now extended their schedule.
$322/ea way STL>RSW ... WoW

Southwest schedules extend 7/21

stl07 · Wed Jul 20, 2022 2:19 am

Great news on the new LH flight

“These are their words: This has been the most successful launch of a new market in memory.”

https://news.stlpublicradio.org/economy ... where-next

LambertMan · Wed Jul 20, 2022 3:45 am

stl07 wrote:
Great news on the new LH flight

“These are their words: This has been the most successful launch of a new market in memory.”

https://news.stlpublicradio.org/economy ... where-next

I wonder why they haven’t added a 4th frequency if its been that successful? Permanent signage would also be a nice start. Has that changed?

I may be answering my own question but wasnt LGW also strong for AA / TW in the hub days during summer? I wonder if leisure drops off so much they are waiting for the spring?

stl07 · Wed Jul 20, 2022 3:53 am

LambertMan wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Great news on the new LH flight

“These are their words: This has been the most successful launch of a new market in memory.”

https://news.stlpublicradio.org/economy ... where-next

I wonder why they haven’t added a 4th frequency if its been that successful? Permanent signage would also be a nice start. Has that changed?

I may be answering my own question but wasnt LGW also strong for AA / TW in the hub days during summer? I wonder if leisure drops off so much they are waiting for the spring?

Considering FRA has restricted passengers due to the utter mismanagement of labor in Europe, I think more frequency is not something on the table until that is worked out

Jshank83 · Wed Jul 20, 2022 3:56 am

LambertMan wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Great news on the new LH flight

“These are their words: This has been the most successful launch of a new market in memory.”

https://news.stlpublicradio.org/economy ... where-next

I wonder why they haven’t added a 4th frequency if its been that successful? Permanent signage would also be a nice start. Has that changed?

I may be answering my own question but wasnt LGW also strong for AA / TW in the hub days during summer? I wonder if leisure drops off so much they are waiting for the spring?

With the mess going on at the hubs in Europe I would guess they aren’t looking to add anything for a bit since most airports are forcing everyone to cut back. I’m hoping spring but assuming maybe next summer is when they add more frequency. I could see it end up being a daily March-October thing and cut back a bit over winter.

Great to see is doing as well as it seemed to be doing. Now if UA would just follow along….there are more seats to FRA a week than SFO and IAD.. combined.

Jshank83 · Wed Jul 20, 2022 4:24 am

Thanks for the heads up on Spirit Brenton. PHX, FLL, MCO, LAS, RSW all showing up. Same as last extension. Looks like they went and updated October also. Pulled out everything except MCO/LAS. I am curious if we will get one of the EWR flights. New York could use a ULCC on it.

stl07 · Wed Jul 20, 2022 10:37 pm

Well someone felt excluded after not giving us any state funds:
https://www.kmov.com/2022/07/20/gov-par ... -location/

wonder if KC's state-funded flight details/announcement will be incorporated in this visit

Jshank83 · Wed Jul 20, 2022 10:47 pm

stl07 wrote:
Well someone felt excluded after not giving us any state funds:
https://www.kmov.com/2022/07/20/gov-par ... -location/

wonder if KC's state-funded flight details/announcement will be incorporated in this visit

Part of me wonders if KC is hitting bad timing in wanting to get a flight, depending on if they will be picky on where it goes. AMS is going to slash flights next year so its hard for me to see them adding. LHR and FRA are having their own issues, and that isn't factoring in that IND probably is getting next spot at LHR. So I'll be curious if those airports all are going to put the brakes on airlines adding for next year. Aer Lingus won't have the A321XLR ready yet. That leaves Delta and CDG if Delta is looking to get going again, which I still think is the best option for KC anyway. I guess they could always get Icelandair back. Or maybe they can get some other airline that we normally wouldn't think about. They have the money but I wouldn't be totally surprised if they have to wait another year until things work themselves out.

kavok · Thu Jul 21, 2022 12:11 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Well someone felt excluded after not giving us any state funds:
https://www.kmov.com/2022/07/20/gov-par ... -location/

wonder if KC's state-funded flight details/announcement will be incorporated in this visit

Part of me wonders if KC is hitting bad timing in wanting to get a flight, depending on if they will be picky on where it goes. AMS is going to slash flights next year so its hard for me to see them adding. LHR and FRA are having their own issues, and that isn't factoring in that IND probably is getting next spot at LHR. So I'll be curious if those airports all are going to put the brakes on airlines adding for next year. Aer Lingus won't have the A321XLR ready yet. That leaves Delta and CDG if Delta is looking to get going again, which I still think is the best option for KC anyway. I guess they could always get Icelandair back. Or maybe they can get some other airline that we normally wouldn't think about. They have the money but I wouldn't be totally surprised if they have to wait another year until things work themselves out.

If the Governor is campaigning in the Netherlands and Germany, I would still think AMS is in the cards. To me that sounds like trying to get a few extra corporate contracts to help pad a potential KC-AMS flight. The German campaign achieves hopefully achieves a similar goal with STL-FRA.

I suspect the focus of the AMS flights cuts will focus on the intra-European RJs, while the business case for widebody international will still make a new flight to KC a welcomed addition, should it happen.

Jshank83 · Thu Jul 21, 2022 12:55 pm

kavok wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Well someone felt excluded after not giving us any state funds:
https://www.kmov.com/2022/07/20/gov-par ... -location/

wonder if KC's state-funded flight details/announcement will be incorporated in this visit

Part of me wonders if KC is hitting bad timing in wanting to get a flight, depending on if they will be picky on where it goes. AMS is going to slash flights next year so its hard for me to see them adding. LHR and FRA are having their own issues, and that isn't factoring in that IND probably is getting next spot at LHR. So I'll be curious if those airports all are going to put the brakes on airlines adding for next year. Aer Lingus won't have the A321XLR ready yet. That leaves Delta and CDG if Delta is looking to get going again, which I still think is the best option for KC anyway. I guess they could always get Icelandair back. Or maybe they can get some other airline that we normally wouldn't think about. They have the money but I wouldn't be totally surprised if they have to wait another year until things work themselves out.

If the Governor is campaigning in the Netherlands and Germany, I would still think AMS is in the cards. To me that sounds like trying to get a few extra corporate contracts to help pad a potential KC-AMS flight. The German campaign achieves hopefully achieves a similar goal with STL-FRA.

I suspect the focus of the AMS flights cuts will focus on the intra-European RJs, while the business case for widebody international will still make a new flight to KC a welcomed addition, should it happen.

It’s just hard for me to see them cutting 12% of flights then have to cut more on top of that to add. That’s losing 12% of feed for the flight seeing most will be going onward and not staying at AMS. I just think it lessens the chances of it being AMS. Still could be of course but it has to hurt the chances.

But I’m also not convinced the governor is doing a anything on this trip to help sell a flight so the destinations to me mean little. Support is going to need to come from the KC side.

Jshank83 · Thu Jul 21, 2022 1:03 pm

Southwest extension is about as expected. Only west coast is SAN/LAX/LGB. SLC is sat/sun only.

No new routes. I’ll dig into it more later

trexel94 · Thu Jul 21, 2022 2:06 pm

stl07 wrote:
Well someone felt excluded after not giving us any state funds:
https://www.kmov.com/2022/07/20/gov-par ... -location/

wonder if KC's state-funded flight details/announcement will be incorporated in this visit

I'm surprised he's not visiting the UK as MCI-LHR is basically the only KC-European route with any real O/D with STL-LHR having even more traffic but word on the street is that DL will be the one to launch an INTL flight out of KC. Whoever ends up biting the $5 million incentive, I just hope its sustainable and doesn't end up being a silly short-term experiment like with FI.

TWA302 · Thu Jul 21, 2022 3:43 pm

trexel94 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Well someone felt excluded after not giving us any state funds:
https://www.kmov.com/2022/07/20/gov-par ... -location/

wonder if KC's state-funded flight details/announcement will be incorporated in this visit

I'm surprised he's not visiting the UK as MCI-LHR is basically the only KC-European route with any real O/D with STL-LHR having even more traffic but word on the street is that DL will be the one to launch an INTL flight out of KC. Whoever ends up biting the $5 million incentive, I just hope its sustainable and doesn't end up being a silly short-term experiment like with FI.

Summer of 2019 KCI had 600 people daily travelled transatlantic so there is demand and I think they are the second or third largest without transatlantic service. With the World Cup coming in 2026 you can bet to see someone bite on it, maybe seasonal, but KC deserves this. I agree MCI-LHR would be a great choice. It is just a question of if BA is ready to make that deal given the turmoil.

Jshank83 · Thu Jul 21, 2022 4:37 pm

trexel94 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Well someone felt excluded after not giving us any state funds:
https://www.kmov.com/2022/07/20/gov-par ... -location/

wonder if KC's state-funded flight details/announcement will be incorporated in this visit

I'm surprised he's not visiting the UK as MCI-LHR is basically the only KC-European route with any real O/D with STL-LHR having even more traffic but word on the street is that DL will be the one to launch an INTL flight out of KC. Whoever ends up biting the $5 million incentive, I just hope its sustainable and doesn't end up being a silly short-term experiment like with FI.

That's why I wouldn't be surprised if a flight doesn't even come up on the trip besides maybe that there is one to STL now, but he doesn't strike me as the type that will be over there clamoring for people in invest in a new flight.

DL makes the most sense to me if they are looking to add. I think they would be best for KC so I hope that is who they get.

stl07 · Thu Jul 21, 2022 6:05 pm

Truth to be told, I'm pretty sure he only took this trip because he was not invited on the STL one to the exact same place for the same stated purpose just 1 month ago due to not being willing to contribute state funds. It would be interesting to see if anything regarding KC is discussed on this trip, but to me this reads more like a "I'm important and global too" type of trip.

Jshank83 · Thu Jul 21, 2022 6:43 pm

stl07 wrote:
Truth to be told, I'm pretty sure he only took this trip because he was not invited on the STL one to the exact same place for the same stated purpose just 1 month ago due to not being willing to contribute state funds. It would be interesting to see if anything regarding KC is discussed on this trip, but to me this reads more like a "I'm important and global too" type of trip.

Didn't he say it was his 4th trip over there? I doubt he really cares much on if he was invited or not. Especially since I assume his trip probably was pretty STL focused based on the topics.

stl07 · Thu Jul 21, 2022 7:07 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Truth to be told, I'm pretty sure he only took this trip because he was not invited on the STL one to the exact same place for the same stated purpose just 1 month ago due to not being willing to contribute state funds. It would be interesting to see if anything regarding KC is discussed on this trip, but to me this reads more like a "I'm important and global too" type of trip.

Didn't he say it was his 4th trip over there? I doubt he really cares much on if he was invited or not. Especially since I assume his trip probably was pretty STL focused based on the topics.

Oh yes, nvm. Maybe I'm just being a bit too sour on him for making us for not helping fund our flight but helping KC. Thanks for pointing that out.

Jshank83 · Thu Jul 21, 2022 7:31 pm

Schedule extension frequencies
F Sa Su
ATL 3 2 3
AUS 3 1 3
BWI 3 3 2
BOS 2 1 1
CUN 1 1 1
CHS
CLT 1 0 1
MDW 6 3 5
CLE 2 1 1
CMH 2 1 2
DAL 6 4 5
DEN 5 3 5
DSM 2 1 1
VPS
DTW 2 1 1
FLL 1 3 2
RSW 2 4 3
BDL
HOU 4 3 3
JAX 0 0 1
MCI 3 1 2
LAS 3 2 4
LIT 2 1 1
LGB 1 0 0
LAX 1 1 1
MIA 1 1 1
MKE 2 1 1
MSP 2 1 1
MBJ
MYR
BNA 4 2 3
MSY 2 2 2
LGA 5 3 3
OAK
OKC 2 1 1
OMA 2 1 1
SNA
MCO 4 5 5
ECP
PNS
PHL 1 1 2
PHX 3 3 3
PIT 1 1 2
PDX
RDU 1 1 1
SMF
SLC 0 1 1
SAT 1 1 1
SAN 1 1 1
SJC
SJU 0 1 0
SRQ 1 1 1
SEA
TPA 2 3 3
TUL 2 1 1
DCA 4 3 3
ICT 2 1 1
98 73 86

stlgph · Fri Jul 22, 2022 6:33 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
Southwest extension is about as expected. Only west coast is SAN/LAX/LGB. SLC is sat/sun only.

No new routes. I’ll dig into it more later

It would be interesting to be able to do a comparison to find if the capacity flow out west has just gone away altogether or shifted to Denver, Nashville, etc. etc.

Jshank83 · Fri Jul 22, 2022 6:36 pm

stlgph wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Southwest extension is about as expected. Only west coast is SAN/LAX/LGB. SLC is sat/sun only.

No new routes. I’ll dig into it more later

It would be interesting to be able to do a comparison to find if the capacity flow out west has just gone away altogether or shifted to Denver, Nashville, etc. etc.

They basically are cutting down on longer flights all around. I think BNA is only down to LA airports and SAN for Jan/Feb also. So I am guessing DEN/PHX/LAS picked up a fair amount of connectors. So for example, instead of STL-OAK now the plane is flying STL-DEN-OAK.

I've flown out west a fair amount and have more coming up and my connections have been PHX/DEN/LAS/LGB for the most part. The LGB flight must be set up well for them because it comes up a lot. I have family going thru it both ways coming up.

lightsaber · Sat Jul 23, 2022 12:34 am

This is non-aviation. Do not discuss politics without a link and only discussing the aviation portion.

STLflyer · Mon Jul 25, 2022 1:13 am

According to FlightAware, LH left the gate at 3:59 PM today which looks like their first pre-4PM gate departure. Glad to see they seem to have the kinks worked out and are improving the turnaround times.

Jshank83 · Mon Jul 25, 2022 4:58 am

STLflyer wrote:
According to FlightAware, LH left the gate at 3:59 PM today which looks like their first pre-4PM gate departure. Glad to see they seem to have the kinks worked out and are improving the turnaround times.

And it got in late to STL. They def are much better. They only have 1 late arrival in all of July not including the reflected takeoff flight.

Jshank83 · Mon Jul 25, 2022 7:40 pm

Apple Vacations did an update to their STL schedule for next year

Punta Cana keeps the same schedule as this year. Frontier 4x a week except Aug-mid Nov

Cancun daily on Frontier, 4x for Aug-mid Nov (this year was also supposed to go to 4x but they recently upped it to daily the entire year so next year could do the same)

HUX 1x a week VivaAerobus, late Jan-late March

No update for PVR/SJD yet

Jshank83 · Mon Jul 25, 2022 10:45 pm

stl07 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Truth to be told, I'm pretty sure he only took this trip because he was not invited on the STL one to the exact same place for the same stated purpose just 1 month ago due to not being willing to contribute state funds. It would be interesting to see if anything regarding KC is discussed on this trip, but to me this reads more like a "I'm important and global too" type of trip.

Didn't he say it was his 4th trip over there? I doubt he really cares much on if he was invited or not. Especially since I assume his trip probably was pretty STL focused based on the topics.

Oh yes, nvm. Maybe I'm just being a bit too sour on him for making us for not helping fund our flight but helping KC. Thanks for pointing that out.

Tweet from the Gov

Today, we met with lufthansa executives as part of our international Trade Mission to Germany.

This year we saw a new direct flight connection between St. Louis and Frankfurt, the city’s first transatlantic flight to continental Europe in nearly 20 years.

https://twitter.com/govparsonmo/status/ ... oCwZIrwk0Q

stl07 · Tue Jul 26, 2022 1:51 am

Jshank83 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:

Didn't he say it was his 4th trip over there? I doubt he really cares much on if he was invited or not. Especially since I assume his trip probably was pretty STL focused based on the topics.

Oh yes, nvm. Maybe I'm just being a bit too sour on him for making us for not helping fund our flight but helping KC. Thanks for pointing that out.

Tweet from the Gov

Today, we met with lufthansa executives as part of our international Trade Mission to Germany.

This year we saw a new direct flight connection between St. Louis and Frankfurt, the city’s first transatlantic flight to continental Europe in nearly 20 years.

https://twitter.com/govparsonmo/status/ ... oCwZIrwk0Q

Interesting.

stl07 · Tue Jul 26, 2022 7:29 am

Possible add soon from a carrier

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