United going 2X daily to SFO on February 10

ilive4planes wrote:

United going 2X daily to SFO on February 10

I don't know... I hope its true, but it looks like a default schedule to me. I could imagine 2x daily maybe next summer, but not right now with most Asian feed still missing and California travel demand still not yet fully recovered. Lots of flight departure and arrival times around the UA network switch to "simpler" times, minutes ending in "0" and "5" starting February 10 while they are far more scattered, random, and realistic the days before. I would think then that UA only has its schedule finalized through February 9th.

In earlier days of February however, UA is up to 3x daily mainline to EWR: 1x 737, 2x A319, 3x E175

Does anyone have the Pdews for the Contour Markets?

bringbackATA wrote:

Does anyone have the Pdews for the Contour Markets?

Speaking of Contour, on their website they have listed STL as a Destination. Maybe they plan on actually launching it?

Hurricane Ian is going to directly hit IND's passenger numbers.

For Winter and Spring Fort Myers/Punta Gorda is the 2nd largest outbound market from IND, only behind MCO.

May mean more demand to places like MIA or PHX, but will certainly put a dent in Florida vacation travel to RSW & PGD, and likely up to SRQ for quite some time.

Midwestindy wrote:

Hurricane Ian is going to directly hit IND's passenger numbers.

For Winter and Spring Fort Myers/Punta Gorda is the 2nd largest outbound market from IND, only behind MCO.

May mean more demand to places like MIA or PHX, but will certainly put a dent in Florida vacation travel to RSW & PGD, and likely up to SRQ for quite some time.

I imagine fall break travel is getting a massive hit from it too

I did my first AA flight yesterday. It is sad that the soft product on the regional flight (Republic) was better than the Delta One service between SLC and HNL.

I am actually very disappointed in American Airlines bug bounty program. They offer no compensation for reporting bugs and security vulnerabilities. Is that typical of the industry? I found a decent security vulnerability in AA's site but I think I forgot how to reproduce it now. Any company as large as AA that needs a bug program but won't offer compensation, doesn't need or deserve the information.

As I imagine some have already seen, Cleverland is getting a nonstop 4x weekly to Dublin on Aer Lingus starting in May. Considering Cleveland has nearly identical passenger numbers, I am curious if this is a sign of things to come to IND (not neccesarily from Aer Lingus, but from anyone).

I am curious what the international passenger numbers are like from Cleveland vs Indianapolis.

If, for some reason, Aer Lingus took a shot at Indy, seems the A321LR has just long enough legs, although I imagine some bad winds could cancel that out occasionally.

Any thoughts?

I see the Aer Lingus A321 strategy as a way for IAG group to get service into places where British Airways wouldn't exactly work or wouldn't make sense.

Case in point - it'd be great and welcomed with open arms if Aer Lingus came to Indianapolis, but if Indianapolis is in a very sweet spot for consideration for LHR service, why waste resources building the market and then swap the horse out in the middle of the stream 2-3 years down the road and bring in British Airways instead. You've gone and killed everything you've built up and put resources into.

Cleveland, no slam to them, of course, is just a market where a long-term commitment with Aer Lingus would serve them well than trying to get British Airways.

The other side of the coin - for Indianapolis - LHR slots aren't easy to come by. Not impossible, but just not easy to come by. Would it be better to have Aer Lingus come than go without service for a number of years...especially if the likes of BA never come to town?

stlgph wrote:

I see the Aer Lingus A321 strategy as a way for IAG group to get service into places where British Airways wouldn't exactly work or wouldn't make sense.

Case in point - it'd be great and welcomed with open arms if Aer Lingus came to Indianapolis, but if Indianapolis is in a very sweet spot for consideration for LHR service, why waste resources building the market and then swap the horse out in the middle of the stream 2-3 years down the road and bring in British Airways instead. You've gone and killed everything you've built up and put resources into.

Cleveland, no slam to them, of course, is just a market where a long-term commitment with Aer Lingus would serve them well than trying to get British Airways.

The other side of the coin - for Indianapolis - LHR slots aren't easy to come by. Not impossible, but just not easy to come by. Would it be better to have Aer Lingus come than go without service for a number of years...especially if the likes of BA never come to town?

Aer Lingus offers little in terms of Connections, Aer Lingus could work here especially since we have companies like Eli Lilly In Ireland, However for our first TATL flight we need a Major Hub like LHR,CDG to add in connections all around the world

Aer Lingus offers far beyond “little in terms of connections.” It sufficiently hits major European destinations and should have no problem filling 150 seats if it comes down to 321XL/R service. Connecting in Dublin is easy and convenient for travelers. The biggest problem with Dublin, while Heathrow is limited on slots, Dublin, unless major changes are made in years, doesn’t have infinite space, especially in the U.S. departures area.

Heathrow, yes, does offer more connection opportunities, but there’s not many top places flown out of there you can’t get to with one-stops at other hubs in the U.S. The funny part is, those destinations are via Delta and United.

If anything, the former Delta IND-CDG route into the Air France network offered a more diversified route map, but if that’s not coming back anytime soon, while BAirways into Heathrow would be nice to see, sure, Aer Lingus isn’t anything to scoff at. It covers a majority of the need and fills a OneWorld void in American’s transatlantic network. Ultimately, success of transatlantic out of Indianapolis won’t be reliant upon the ease of being able to fly one-stop to Abuja.

Who here flies IND-DC? Do you have a favorite airport. Or maybe least hated would be the better question. I have used DCA and BWI. BWI was okay for me. DCA has a wonderful E concourse but baggage claim and the ticket desks are horrible. The staff at DCA is extremely unfriendly. AA's check in setup is the worst I have ever experienced. Is IAD better?

Indy wrote:

Who here flies IND-DC? Do you have a favorite airport. Or maybe least hated would be the better question. I have used DCA and BWI. BWI was okay for me. DCA has a wonderful E concourse but baggage claim and the ticket desks are horrible. The staff at DCA is extremely unfriendly. AA's check in setup is the worst I have ever experienced. Is IAD better?

Depends where you're headed in the area, but I regularly travel in and out of IAD from IND on business travel (office in northern VA suburbs) and each time has been smooth sailing. Efficient TSA PreCheck and CLEAR lines, rental car pickup and drop-off works pretty well, and plenty of Priority Pass lounges to choose from. My only complaint is the United's facilities in A, C, and D are, quite frankly, a dump. Concourse B which houses the BA/TK/LH lounge as well as Delta and American gates is a much more modern and comfortable facility with better amenities. Overall, would highly recommend IAD for travel to the Virginia side.

Aer Lingus has now added Hartford to their schedule. Hartford has far less passenger traffic than Indianapolis. Their press release says they plan to add transatlantic routes....I am very curious now to see what comes next.

At this point the only reason I would not see Aer Lingus jumping on IND is if they know BA is already planning on it.

kindeham wrote:

Aer Lingus has now added Hartford to their schedule. Hartford has far less passenger traffic than Indianapolis. Their press release says they plan to add transatlantic routes....I am very curious now to see what comes next.

At this point the only reason I would not see Aer Lingus jumping on IND is if they know BA is already planning on it.

BDL was a precovid add that the state paid over 10 million for. If you’re a midsized market or smaller Aer Lingus won’t add it without a considerable incentive, as we just also saw with CLE.

It’s pretty pointless to compare markets and their size in regard to international potential. Each market has their own unique demand drivers that make it desirable or not, particularly with business travel.

Nice to see a return of Aer Lingus at Hartford. With this and the addition of Cleveland, that's a nice sign in the right direction.

Market's with fares up over 130% of 2019 highlighted

Sample Fares:
IND-PDX-$461
IND-SMF-$420
IND-SLC-$414
IND-SFO-$410
IND-SEA-$389
IND-LAX-$374
IND-MCI-$362
IND-SAT-$347


https://data.transportation.gov/Aviatio ... -b2ir/data

Midwestindy wrote:

Monster LFs from IND in June, Q2 IND fares should come in very hot vs. 2019:
WN - 2nd highest station LF systemwide
AS - 5th highest station LF systemwide
F9 - 5th highest station LF systemwide
UA Mainline - 7th highest station LF systemwide
AA Mainline - 9th highest station LF systemwide


March int’l LFs:
AA IND-CUN-98.3%
WN IND-CUN-96.7%
F9 IND-CUN-84.4%

June LF:
AS IND-SEA-94.7% (96.2% inbound)

G4 IND-SRQ-96.5%
G4 IND-PGD-96.4%
G4 IND-LAS-95.8%
G4 IND-PIE-95.8%
G4 IND-SFB-95.8% (96.8% inbound)
G4 IND-FLL-95.3%
G4 IND-AUS-94.0%
G4 IND-JAX-93.3%
G4 IND-SAV-92.0%
G4 IND-BOS-88.9%
G4 IND-VPS-86.6%
G4 IND-CHS-86.2%
G4 IND-MYR-83.2%
G4 IND-EYW-78.1%

AA IND-MIA-94.4%
AA IND-PHL-93.8%
AA IND-PHX-93.0%
AA IND-DFW-92.8%
AA IND-LAX-92.8%
AA IND-AUS-90.7%
AA IND-ORD-89.8% (Envoy only)
AA IND-CLT-89.7%
AA IND-DCA-88.2%
AA IND-JFK-80.4%

LF IND-BNA-62.6% (67.6% inbound)

DL IND-LAX-93.9%
DL IND-MSP-93.0%
DL IND-ATL-92.5%
DL IND-BOS-89.2% (Endeavor only)
DL IND-DTW-85.2%
DL IND-JFK-84.1%
DL IND-LGA-83.9% (Endeavor only)

F9 IND-MCO-95.2%
F9 IND-DEN-94.4%
F9 IND-LAS-89.5%

WN IND-DEN-95.9%
WN IND-SRQ-95.8%
WN IND-MCO-95.3%
WN IND-LAS-95.1%
WN IND-FLL-94.8%
WN IND-HOU-94.0%
WN IND-TPA-94.0%
WN IND-ECP-93.7%
WN IND-PHX-93.5%
WN IND-DAL-93.3%
WN IND-ATL-92.4%
WN IND-RSW-92.1%
WN IND-BWI-89.3%
WN IND-AUS-87.9%

NK IND-MCO-91.9%
NK IND-LAS-87.9%
NK IND-EWR-54.2%

SY IND-MSP-77.4%

UA IND-DEN-95.1%
UA IND-SFO-93.1%
UA IND-IAH-92.3%
UA IND-EWR-87.9%
UA IND-IAD-87.8%

—-
IND-BOS-78.6%
IND-LGA-71.9%

Nice, right in line with industry-wide inflation for airlines, but unfortunately still higher inflation pricing than many consumer indexes.

https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/i ... ics%20(BLS).

stlgph wrote:

Nice, right in line with industry-wide inflation for airlines, but unfortunately still higher inflation pricing than many consumer indexes.

https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/i ... ics%20(BLS).

CPI isn't useful for airline prices these past couple years, because yoy numbers are thrown off due to COVID and the impact it had on pricing in 2020/2021.

2019 comps are more useful for 2022 numbers.


https://www.airlines.org/wp-content/upl ... ates-6.pdf

You just posted a chart stating a 130% or so neighborhood of average of airfares between 2019 and 2022.

Look at the chart ... the numbers are there.

https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/i ... ics%20(BLS).

Add up January through June you come to about 148% roughly, take away the 18% decrease from 2020 and there's your 130% neighborhood from 2019.

The CPI has been used as a component of the public transportation index, including airfares, since December 1963, and has been referenced in these threads many, many times. And now it's suddenly "not useful" because it doesn't fit in some narrative?

You also draw from a source which frequently uses BTS/CPI data in its analysis.
https://www2.arccorp.com/about-us/arc-data/

...........................*K*

stlgph wrote:

You just posted a chart stating a 130% or so neighborhood of average of airfares between 2019 and 2022.

Look at the chart ... the numbers are there.

https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/i ... ics%20(BLS).

Add up January through June you come to about 148% roughly, take away the 18% decrease from 2020 and there's your 130% neighborhood from 2019.

The CPI has been used as a component of the public transportation index, including airfares, since December 1963, and has been referenced in these threads many, many times. And now it's suddenly "not useful" because it doesn't fit in some narrative?

You also draw from a source which frequently uses BTS/CPI data in its analysis.
https://www2.arccorp.com/about-us/arc-data/

...........................*K*

There is no "narrative," just saying the headline yoy CPI on airline price increase isn't really relevant. Yo2019 is the comp to use.

June 2022 was up 121.6% vs. June 2019.
May up 121.7%
April up 110.5%

So, using CPI the Q2 numbers average to 118% of 2019.

IND average vs. 2019 was 124%

Midwestindy wrote:

Hurricane Ian is going to directly hit IND's passenger numbers.

For Winter and Spring Fort Myers/Punta Gorda is the 2nd largest outbound market from IND, only behind MCO.

May mean more demand to places like MIA or PHX, but will certainly put a dent in Florida vacation travel to RSW & PGD, and likely up to SRQ for quite some time.

WN IND-RSW completely cut for October

Midwestindy wrote:

Market's with fares up over 130% of 2019 highlighted

Sample Fares:
IND-PDX-$461
IND-SMF-$420
IND-SLC-$414
IND-SFO-$410
IND-SEA-$389
IND-LAX-$374
IND-MCI-$362
IND-SAT-$347


https://data.transportation.gov/Aviatio ... -b2ir/data

Midwestindy wrote:

Monster LFs from IND in June, Q2 IND fares should come in very hot vs. 2019:
WN - 2nd highest station LF systemwide
AS - 5th highest station LF systemwide
F9 - 5th highest station LF systemwide
UA Mainline - 7th highest station LF systemwide
AA Mainline - 9th highest station LF systemwide


March int’l LFs:
AA IND-CUN-98.3%
WN IND-CUN-96.7%
F9 IND-CUN-84.4%

June LF:
AS IND-SEA-94.7% (96.2% inbound)

G4 IND-SRQ-96.5%
G4 IND-PGD-96.4%
G4 IND-LAS-95.8%
G4 IND-PIE-95.8%
G4 IND-SFB-95.8% (96.8% inbound)
G4 IND-FLL-95.3%
G4 IND-AUS-94.0%
G4 IND-JAX-93.3%
G4 IND-SAV-92.0%
G4 IND-BOS-88.9%
G4 IND-VPS-86.6%
G4 IND-CHS-86.2%
G4 IND-MYR-83.2%
G4 IND-EYW-78.1%

AA IND-MIA-94.4%
AA IND-PHL-93.8%
AA IND-PHX-93.0%
AA IND-DFW-92.8%
AA IND-LAX-92.8%
AA IND-AUS-90.7%
AA IND-ORD-89.8% (Envoy only)
AA IND-CLT-89.7%
AA IND-DCA-88.2%
AA IND-JFK-80.4%

LF IND-BNA-62.6% (67.6% inbound)

DL IND-LAX-93.9%
DL IND-MSP-93.0%
DL IND-ATL-92.5%
DL IND-BOS-89.2% (Endeavor only)
DL IND-DTW-85.2%
DL IND-JFK-84.1%
DL IND-LGA-83.9% (Endeavor only)

F9 IND-MCO-95.2%
F9 IND-DEN-94.4%
F9 IND-LAS-89.5%

WN IND-DEN-95.9%
WN IND-SRQ-95.8%
WN IND-MCO-95.3%
WN IND-LAS-95.1%
WN IND-FLL-94.8%
WN IND-HOU-94.0%
WN IND-TPA-94.0%
WN IND-ECP-93.7%
WN IND-PHX-93.5%
WN IND-DAL-93.3%
WN IND-ATL-92.4%
WN IND-RSW-92.1%
WN IND-BWI-89.3%
WN IND-AUS-87.9%

NK IND-MCO-91.9%
NK IND-LAS-87.9%
NK IND-EWR-54.2%

SY IND-MSP-77.4%

UA IND-DEN-95.1%
UA IND-SFO-93.1%
UA IND-IAH-92.3%
UA IND-EWR-87.9%
UA IND-IAD-87.8%

—-
IND-BOS-78.6%
IND-LGA-71.9%

Is SJC included in the IND-Bay Area? What about BOS?

bringbackATA wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

Market's with fares up over 130% of 2019 highlighted

Sample Fares:
IND-PDX-$461
IND-SMF-$420
IND-SLC-$414
IND-SFO-$410
IND-SEA-$389
IND-LAX-$374
IND-MCI-$362
IND-SAT-$347


https://data.transportation.gov/Aviatio ... -b2ir/data

Midwestindy wrote:

Monster LFs from IND in June, Q2 IND fares should come in very hot vs. 2019:
WN - 2nd highest station LF systemwide
AS - 5th highest station LF systemwide
F9 - 5th highest station LF systemwide
UA Mainline - 7th highest station LF systemwide
AA Mainline - 9th highest station LF systemwide


March int’l LFs:
AA IND-CUN-98.3%
WN IND-CUN-96.7%
F9 IND-CUN-84.4%

June LF:
AS IND-SEA-94.7% (96.2% inbound)

G4 IND-SRQ-96.5%
G4 IND-PGD-96.4%
G4 IND-LAS-95.8%
G4 IND-PIE-95.8%
G4 IND-SFB-95.8% (96.8% inbound)
G4 IND-FLL-95.3%
G4 IND-AUS-94.0%
G4 IND-JAX-93.3%
G4 IND-SAV-92.0%
G4 IND-BOS-88.9%
G4 IND-VPS-86.6%
G4 IND-CHS-86.2%
G4 IND-MYR-83.2%
G4 IND-EYW-78.1%

AA IND-MIA-94.4%
AA IND-PHL-93.8%
AA IND-PHX-93.0%
AA IND-DFW-92.8%
AA IND-LAX-92.8%
AA IND-AUS-90.7%
AA IND-ORD-89.8% (Envoy only)
AA IND-CLT-89.7%
AA IND-DCA-88.2%
AA IND-JFK-80.4%

LF IND-BNA-62.6% (67.6% inbound)

DL IND-LAX-93.9%
DL IND-MSP-93.0%
DL IND-ATL-92.5%
DL IND-BOS-89.2% (Endeavor only)
DL IND-DTW-85.2%
DL IND-JFK-84.1%
DL IND-LGA-83.9% (Endeavor only)

F9 IND-MCO-95.2%
F9 IND-DEN-94.4%
F9 IND-LAS-89.5%

WN IND-DEN-95.9%
WN IND-SRQ-95.8%
WN IND-MCO-95.3%
WN IND-LAS-95.1%
WN IND-FLL-94.8%
WN IND-HOU-94.0%
WN IND-TPA-94.0%
WN IND-ECP-93.7%
WN IND-PHX-93.5%
WN IND-DAL-93.3%
WN IND-ATL-92.4%
WN IND-RSW-92.1%
WN IND-BWI-89.3%
WN IND-AUS-87.9%

NK IND-MCO-91.9%
NK IND-LAS-87.9%
NK IND-EWR-54.2%

SY IND-MSP-77.4%

UA IND-DEN-95.1%
UA IND-SFO-93.1%
UA IND-IAH-92.3%
UA IND-EWR-87.9%
UA IND-IAD-87.8%

—-
IND-BOS-78.6%
IND-LGA-71.9%

Is SJC included in the IND-Bay Area? What about BOS?

IND-BOS(Including 20 & 8 PDEW from PVD and MHT) was 346 PDEW not the 36 PDEW listed there. Fare % & PAX % for BOS are accurate though.

Route - PDEW - Fare
Bay Area:
IND-SFO-182-$418
IND-SJC-39-$412
IND-OAK-30-$356

NYC:
IND-LGA-327-$220
IND-EWR-228-$237
IND-JFK-127-$224
IND-HPN-6-$262
IND-ISP-5-$235

LA:
IND-LAX-303-$374
IND-SNA-63-$389
IND-ONT-41-$400
IND-BUR-23-$344
IND-LGB-15-$285

DC:
IND-DCA-228-$217
IND-BWI-166-$199
IND-IAD-95-$222

Midwestindy wrote:

bringbackATA wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

Market's with fares up over 130% of 2019 highlighted

Sample Fares:
IND-PDX-$461
IND-SMF-$420
IND-SLC-$414
IND-SFO-$410
IND-SEA-$389
IND-LAX-$374
IND-MCI-$362
IND-SAT-$347


https://data.transportation.gov/Aviatio ... -b2ir/data

Is SJC included in the IND-Bay Area? What about BOS?

IND-BOS(Including 20 & 8 PDEW from PVD and MHT) was 346 PDEW not the 36 PDEW listed there. Fare % & PAX % for BOS are accurate though.

Route - PDEW - Fare
Bay Area:
IND-SFO-182-$418
IND-SJC-39-$412
IND-OAK-30-$356

NYC:
IND-LGA-327-$220
IND-EWR-228-$237
IND-JFK-127-$224
IND-HPN-6-$262
IND-ISP-5-$235

LA:
IND-LAX-303-$374
IND-SNA-63-$389
IND-ONT-41-$400
IND-BUR-23-$344
IND-LGB-15-$285

DC:
IND-DCA-228-$217
IND-BWI-166-$199
IND-IAD-95-$222

How do you get the breakdown with a metro area?

Jshank83 wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

bringbackATA wrote:

Is SJC included in the IND-Bay Area? What about BOS?

IND-BOS(Including 20 & 8 PDEW from PVD and MHT) was 346 PDEW not the 36 PDEW listed there. Fare % & PAX % for BOS are accurate though.

Route - PDEW - Fare
Bay Area:
IND-SFO-182-$418
IND-SJC-39-$412
IND-OAK-30-$356

NYC:
IND-LGA-327-$220
IND-EWR-228-$237
IND-JFK-127-$224
IND-HPN-6-$262
IND-ISP-5-$235

LA:
IND-LAX-303-$374
IND-SNA-63-$389
IND-ONT-41-$400
IND-BUR-23-$344
IND-LGB-15-$285

DC:
IND-DCA-228-$217
IND-BWI-166-$199
IND-IAD-95-$222

How do you get the breakdown with a metro area?

Table 1A shows all the multi-city pairs broken down.

https://www.transportation.gov/policy/a ... are-report

Indianapolis Airport is gonna be at World Routes 2022 in Las Vegas!!

August numbers....DL % lower than AC even with Canada still having some entry restrictions lol

Enplanements were 89.8% of August 2019
AS - 194.7%
NK - 143.8%
AA - 110.9%
G4 - 100.5%
WN - 92.4%
UA - 88.7%
AC - 60.8%
DL - 60.0%

SY - N/A
LF - N/A




YTD PAX comps:
MCI - 6,358,303
SAT - 6,069,614
IND - 5,731,595
PIT - 5,302,379
CVG - 4,930,630
CMH - 4,886,738
https://d1j6zi7czwjuok.cloudfront.net/i ... 1011075240

Q1 2023
DL IND-BOS decreased to 2x daily
DL IND-LAX decreased to 4x weekly

Jan
UA IND-EWR 3x mainline (6 total)
UA IND-ORD 1x mainline (6 total)
UA IND-IAD 4 total
UA IND-IAH 2x mainline
UA IND-SFO 1x mainline B739MAX

July 2022
AS: IND was 4th highest LF station
WN: IND was 7th highest LF station

AS IND-SEA-94.5%; SEA-IND-96.3%

AA IND-MIA-92.5%; MIA-IND-92.2%
AA IND-PHX-90.2%; PHX-IND-92.8%
AA IND-LAX-89.6%; LAX-IND-89.3%
AA IND-PHL-86.0%; PHL-IND-89.5%
AA IND-DFW-84.4%; DFW-IND-89.9%
AA IND-ORD-83.1%; ORD-IND-85.5% (Envoy Only)
AA IND-CLT-82.9%; CLT-IND-91.0%
AA IND-AUS-82.0%; AUS-IND-83.3%
AA IND-DCA-79.4%; DCA-IND-83.3%
AA IND-JFK-65.1%; JFK-IND-79.6%

G4 IND-FLL-95.3%; FLL-IND-95.7%
G4 IND-PGD-95.1%; PGD-IND-95.9%
G4 IND-PIE-94.5%; PIE-IND-96.0%
G4 IND-JAX-94.3%; JAX-IND-93.5%
G4 IND-SFB-94.3%; SFB-IND-94.7%
G4 IND-SRQ-93.8%; SRQ-IND-94.9%
G4 IND-AUS-92.8%; AUS-IND-94.7%
G4 IND-LAS-92.6%; LAS-IND-93.7%
G4 IND-SAV-91.4%; SAV-IND-86.5%
G4 IND-CHS-86.5%; CHS-IND-84.8%
G4 IND-BOS-86.5%; BOS-IND-87.9%
G4 IND-VPS-80.3%; VPS-IND-80.4%
G4 IND-EYW-77.4%; EYW-IND-74.8%
G4 IND-MYR-77.1%; MYR-IND-74.7%

DL IND-LAX-92.6%; LAX-IND-91.6%
DL IND-ATL-91.4%; ATL-IND-90.1%
DL IND-MSP-88.4%; MSP-IND-89.4%
DL IND-LGA-83.4%; LGA-IND-80.8%(Endeavor only)
DL IND-DTW-81.9%; DTW-IND-75.2%
DL IND-BOS-80.7%; BOS-IND-90.9% (Endeavor only)
DL IND-JFK-72.2%; JFK-IND-83.6%

F9 IND-MCO-91.7%; MCO-IND-89.2%
F9 IND-LAS-87.6%; LAS-IND-95.3%
F9 IND-DEN-87.2%; DEN-IND-89.4%
F9 IND-RDU-77.2%; RDU-IND-73.5%

LF IND-BNA-53.3%; BNA-IND-67.3%

WN IND-DEN-95.0%; DEN-IND-93.6%
WN IND-SRQ-94.4%; SRQ-IND-89.8%
WN IND-PHX-93.3%; PHX-IND-92.5%
WN IND-HOU-93.2%; HOU-IND-91.7%
WN IND-DAL-93.1%; DAL-IND-92.1%
WN IND-LAS-91.8%; LAS-IND-91.9%
WN IND-FLL-90.5%; FLL-IND-93.3%
WN IND-ECP-89.9%; ECP-IND-78.3%
WN IND-MCO-88.1%; MCO-IND-89.8%
WN IND-RSW-87.6%; RSW-IND-93.5%
WN IND-ATL-87.2%; ATL-IND-92.9%
WN IND-TPA-85.8%; TPA-IND-91.3%
WN IND-AUS-85.2%; AUS-IND-95.0%
WN IND-BWI-84.7%; BWI-IND-80.7%

NK IND-LAS-87.8%; LAS-IND-87.1%
NK IND-MCO-87.3%; MCO-IND-92.5%
NK IND-EWR-54.8%; EWR-IND-54.7%

SY IND-MSP-88.1%; MSP-IND-81.8%

UA IND-DEN-92.6%; DEN-IND-89.9%
UA IND-SFO-91.1%; SFO-IND-87.6%
UA IND-IAH-83.4%; IAH-IND-85.3%
UA IND-IAD-80.8%; IAD-IND-83.8%
UA IND-EWR-78.1%; EWR-IND-85.7%

Combined
IND-ORD-84.3%; ORD-IND-83.5%
IND-BOS-73.5%; BOS-IND-76.1%
IND-LGA-62.9%; LGA-IND-72.2%

Midwestindy wrote:

July 2022
AS: IND was 4th highest LF station
WN: IND was 7th highest LF station

AS IND-SEA-94.5%; SEA-IND-96.3%

AA IND-MIA-92.5%; MIA-IND-92.2%
AA IND-PHX-90.2%; PHX-IND-92.8%
AA IND-LAX-89.6%; LAX-IND-89.3%
AA IND-PHL-86.0%; PHL-IND-89.5%
AA IND-DFW-84.4%; DFW-IND-89.9%
AA IND-ORD-83.1%; ORD-IND-85.5% (Envoy Only)
AA IND-CLT-82.9%; CLT-IND-91.0%
AA IND-AUS-82.0%; AUS-IND-83.3%
AA IND-DCA-79.4%; DCA-IND-83.3%
AA IND-JFK-65.1%; JFK-IND-79.6%

G4 IND-FLL-95.3%; FLL-IND-95.7%
G4 IND-PGD-95.1%; PGD-IND-95.9%
G4 IND-PIE-94.5%; PIE-IND-96.0%
G4 IND-JAX-94.3%; JAX-IND-93.5%
G4 IND-SFB-94.3%; SFB-IND-94.7%
G4 IND-SRQ-93.8%; SRQ-IND-94.9%
G4 IND-AUS-92.8%; AUS-IND-94.7%
G4 IND-LAS-92.6%; LAS-IND-93.7%
G4 IND-SAV-91.4%; SAV-IND-86.5%
G4 IND-CHS-86.5%; CHS-IND-84.8%
G4 IND-BOS-86.5%; BOS-IND-87.9%
G4 IND-VPS-80.3%; VPS-IND-80.4%
G4 IND-EYW-77.4%; EYW-IND-74.8%
G4 IND-MYR-77.1%; MYR-IND-74.7%

DL IND-LAX-92.6%; LAX-IND-91.6%
DL IND-ATL-91.4%; ATL-IND-90.1%
DL IND-MSP-88.4%; MSP-IND-89.4%
DL IND-LGA-83.4%; LGA-IND-80.8%(Endeavor only)
DL IND-DTW-81.9%; DTW-IND-75.2%
DL IND-BOS-80.7%; BOS-IND-90.9% (Endeavor only)
DL IND-JFK-72.2%; JFK-IND-83.6%

F9 IND-MCO-91.7%; MCO-IND-89.2%
F9 IND-LAS-87.6%; LAS-IND-95.3%
F9 IND-DEN-87.2%; DEN-IND-89.4%
F9 IND-RDU-77.2%; RDU-IND-73.5%

LF IND-BNA-53.3%; BNA-IND-67.3%

WN IND-DEN-95.0%; DEN-IND-93.6%
WN IND-SRQ-94.4%; SRQ-IND-89.8%
WN IND-PHX-93.3%; PHX-IND-92.5%
WN IND-HOU-93.2%; HOU-IND-91.7%
WN IND-DAL-93.1%; DAL-IND-92.1%
WN IND-LAS-91.8%; LAS-IND-91.9%
WN IND-FLL-90.5%; FLL-IND-93.3%
WN IND-ECP-89.9%; ECP-IND-78.3%
WN IND-MCO-88.1%; MCO-IND-89.8%
WN IND-RSW-87.6%; RSW-IND-93.5%
WN IND-ATL-87.2%; ATL-IND-92.9%
WN IND-TPA-85.8%; TPA-IND-91.3%
WN IND-AUS-85.2%; AUS-IND-95.0%
WN IND-BWI-84.7%; BWI-IND-80.7%

NK IND-LAS-87.8%; LAS-IND-87.1%
NK IND-MCO-87.3%; MCO-IND-92.5%
NK IND-EWR-54.8%; EWR-IND-54.7%

SY IND-MSP-88.1%; MSP-IND-81.8%

UA IND-DEN-92.6%; DEN-IND-89.9%
UA IND-SFO-91.1%; SFO-IND-87.6%
UA IND-IAH-83.4%; IAH-IND-85.3%
UA IND-IAD-80.8%; IAD-IND-83.8%
UA IND-EWR-78.1%; EWR-IND-85.7%

Combined
IND-ORD-84.3%; ORD-IND-83.5%
IND-BOS-73.5%; BOS-IND-76.1%
IND-LGA-62.9%; LGA-IND-72.2%

Yikes. That Outbound load to JFK on AA

kindeham wrote:

I am curious what the international passenger numbers are like from Cleveland vs Indianapolis.

In one of the press citations in the CLE thread, a local paper reported that CLE currently has 320 pax PDEW with Europe with no service in the market. Pre-Covid it had been 450. Cleveland has two fairly large corporations (Eaton and Steris) with Dublin headquarters, so there should be at least some business traffic in the market.

There's half your comparison.

kindeham wrote:

Aer Lingus has now added Hartford to their schedule. Hartford has far less passenger traffic than Indianapolis. Their press release says they plan to add transatlantic routes....I am very curious now to see what comes next.

At this point the only reason I would not see Aer Lingus jumping on IND is if they know BA is already planning on it.

I'm thinking that is the case as well. Wouldn't be surprised if we have some sort of announcement pretty soon

pmanni1 wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

July 2022
AS: IND was 4th highest LF station
WN: IND was 7th highest LF station

AS IND-SEA-94.5%; SEA-IND-96.3%

AA IND-MIA-92.5%; MIA-IND-92.2%
AA IND-PHX-90.2%; PHX-IND-92.8%
AA IND-LAX-89.6%; LAX-IND-89.3%
AA IND-PHL-86.0%; PHL-IND-89.5%
AA IND-DFW-84.4%; DFW-IND-89.9%
AA IND-ORD-83.1%; ORD-IND-85.5% (Envoy Only)
AA IND-CLT-82.9%; CLT-IND-91.0%
AA IND-AUS-82.0%; AUS-IND-83.3%
AA IND-DCA-79.4%; DCA-IND-83.3%
AA IND-JFK-65.1%; JFK-IND-79.6%

G4 IND-FLL-95.3%; FLL-IND-95.7%
G4 IND-PGD-95.1%; PGD-IND-95.9%
G4 IND-PIE-94.5%; PIE-IND-96.0%
G4 IND-JAX-94.3%; JAX-IND-93.5%
G4 IND-SFB-94.3%; SFB-IND-94.7%
G4 IND-SRQ-93.8%; SRQ-IND-94.9%
G4 IND-AUS-92.8%; AUS-IND-94.7%
G4 IND-LAS-92.6%; LAS-IND-93.7%
G4 IND-SAV-91.4%; SAV-IND-86.5%
G4 IND-CHS-86.5%; CHS-IND-84.8%
G4 IND-BOS-86.5%; BOS-IND-87.9%
G4 IND-VPS-80.3%; VPS-IND-80.4%
G4 IND-EYW-77.4%; EYW-IND-74.8%
G4 IND-MYR-77.1%; MYR-IND-74.7%

DL IND-LAX-92.6%; LAX-IND-91.6%
DL IND-ATL-91.4%; ATL-IND-90.1%
DL IND-MSP-88.4%; MSP-IND-89.4%
DL IND-LGA-83.4%; LGA-IND-80.8%(Endeavor only)
DL IND-DTW-81.9%; DTW-IND-75.2%
DL IND-BOS-80.7%; BOS-IND-90.9% (Endeavor only)
DL IND-JFK-72.2%; JFK-IND-83.6%

F9 IND-MCO-91.7%; MCO-IND-89.2%
F9 IND-LAS-87.6%; LAS-IND-95.3%
F9 IND-DEN-87.2%; DEN-IND-89.4%
F9 IND-RDU-77.2%; RDU-IND-73.5%

LF IND-BNA-53.3%; BNA-IND-67.3%

WN IND-DEN-95.0%; DEN-IND-93.6%
WN IND-SRQ-94.4%; SRQ-IND-89.8%
WN IND-PHX-93.3%; PHX-IND-92.5%
WN IND-HOU-93.2%; HOU-IND-91.7%
WN IND-DAL-93.1%; DAL-IND-92.1%
WN IND-LAS-91.8%; LAS-IND-91.9%
WN IND-FLL-90.5%; FLL-IND-93.3%
WN IND-ECP-89.9%; ECP-IND-78.3%
WN IND-MCO-88.1%; MCO-IND-89.8%
WN IND-RSW-87.6%; RSW-IND-93.5%
WN IND-ATL-87.2%; ATL-IND-92.9%
WN IND-TPA-85.8%; TPA-IND-91.3%
WN IND-AUS-85.2%; AUS-IND-95.0%
WN IND-BWI-84.7%; BWI-IND-80.7%

NK IND-LAS-87.8%; LAS-IND-87.1%
NK IND-MCO-87.3%; MCO-IND-92.5%
NK IND-EWR-54.8%; EWR-IND-54.7%

SY IND-MSP-88.1%; MSP-IND-81.8%

UA IND-DEN-92.6%; DEN-IND-89.9%
UA IND-SFO-91.1%; SFO-IND-87.6%
UA IND-IAH-83.4%; IAH-IND-85.3%
UA IND-IAD-80.8%; IAD-IND-83.8%
UA IND-EWR-78.1%; EWR-IND-85.7%

Combined
IND-ORD-84.3%; ORD-IND-83.5%
IND-BOS-73.5%; BOS-IND-76.1%
IND-LGA-62.9%; LGA-IND-72.2%

With 54% loads in a peak month NK to EWR probably won't be around much longer. Would like to see loads on all of their routes out of EWR.

I imagine it will be downgraded before it gets cut

pmanni1 wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

July 2022
AS: IND was 4th highest LF station
WN: IND was 7th highest LF station

AS IND-SEA-94.5%; SEA-IND-96.3%

AA IND-MIA-92.5%; MIA-IND-92.2%
AA IND-PHX-90.2%; PHX-IND-92.8%
AA IND-LAX-89.6%; LAX-IND-89.3%
AA IND-PHL-86.0%; PHL-IND-89.5%
AA IND-DFW-84.4%; DFW-IND-89.9%
AA IND-ORD-83.1%; ORD-IND-85.5% (Envoy Only)
AA IND-CLT-82.9%; CLT-IND-91.0%
AA IND-AUS-82.0%; AUS-IND-83.3%
AA IND-DCA-79.4%; DCA-IND-83.3%
AA IND-JFK-65.1%; JFK-IND-79.6%

G4 IND-FLL-95.3%; FLL-IND-95.7%
G4 IND-PGD-95.1%; PGD-IND-95.9%
G4 IND-PIE-94.5%; PIE-IND-96.0%
G4 IND-JAX-94.3%; JAX-IND-93.5%
G4 IND-SFB-94.3%; SFB-IND-94.7%
G4 IND-SRQ-93.8%; SRQ-IND-94.9%
G4 IND-AUS-92.8%; AUS-IND-94.7%
G4 IND-LAS-92.6%; LAS-IND-93.7%
G4 IND-SAV-91.4%; SAV-IND-86.5%
G4 IND-CHS-86.5%; CHS-IND-84.8%
G4 IND-BOS-86.5%; BOS-IND-87.9%
G4 IND-VPS-80.3%; VPS-IND-80.4%
G4 IND-EYW-77.4%; EYW-IND-74.8%
G4 IND-MYR-77.1%; MYR-IND-74.7%

DL IND-LAX-92.6%; LAX-IND-91.6%
DL IND-ATL-91.4%; ATL-IND-90.1%
DL IND-MSP-88.4%; MSP-IND-89.4%
DL IND-LGA-83.4%; LGA-IND-80.8%(Endeavor only)
DL IND-DTW-81.9%; DTW-IND-75.2%
DL IND-BOS-80.7%; BOS-IND-90.9% (Endeavor only)
DL IND-JFK-72.2%; JFK-IND-83.6%

F9 IND-MCO-91.7%; MCO-IND-89.2%
F9 IND-LAS-87.6%; LAS-IND-95.3%
F9 IND-DEN-87.2%; DEN-IND-89.4%
F9 IND-RDU-77.2%; RDU-IND-73.5%

LF IND-BNA-53.3%; BNA-IND-67.3%

WN IND-DEN-95.0%; DEN-IND-93.6%
WN IND-SRQ-94.4%; SRQ-IND-89.8%
WN IND-PHX-93.3%; PHX-IND-92.5%
WN IND-HOU-93.2%; HOU-IND-91.7%
WN IND-DAL-93.1%; DAL-IND-92.1%
WN IND-LAS-91.8%; LAS-IND-91.9%
WN IND-FLL-90.5%; FLL-IND-93.3%
WN IND-ECP-89.9%; ECP-IND-78.3%
WN IND-MCO-88.1%; MCO-IND-89.8%
WN IND-RSW-87.6%; RSW-IND-93.5%
WN IND-ATL-87.2%; ATL-IND-92.9%
WN IND-TPA-85.8%; TPA-IND-91.3%
WN IND-AUS-85.2%; AUS-IND-95.0%
WN IND-BWI-84.7%; BWI-IND-80.7%

NK IND-LAS-87.8%; LAS-IND-87.1%
NK IND-MCO-87.3%; MCO-IND-92.5%
NK IND-EWR-54.8%; EWR-IND-54.7%

SY IND-MSP-88.1%; MSP-IND-81.8%

UA IND-DEN-92.6%; DEN-IND-89.9%
UA IND-SFO-91.1%; SFO-IND-87.6%
UA IND-IAH-83.4%; IAH-IND-85.3%
UA IND-IAD-80.8%; IAD-IND-83.8%
UA IND-EWR-78.1%; EWR-IND-85.7%

Combined
IND-ORD-84.3%; ORD-IND-83.5%
IND-BOS-73.5%; BOS-IND-76.1%
IND-LGA-62.9%; LGA-IND-72.2%

With 54% loads in a peak month NK to EWR probably won't be around much longer. Would like to see loads on all of their routes out of EWR.

NK's PIT-EWR was 30% LF. They are running IND/PIT with A321s, which is their highest capacity aircraft

Midwestindy wrote:

NK's PIT-EWR was 30% LF. They are running IND/PIT with A321s, which is their highest capacity aircraft

PIT-EWR has been a mix of A320 and A319s since early Sept.

July was the first full month of service and I remember the introductory fares were insanely high when the flights were first made available for booking months prior. But regardless I don't expect these flights to last.

pmanni1 wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

July 2022
AS: IND was 4th highest LF station
WN: IND was 7th highest LF station

AS IND-SEA-94.5%; SEA-IND-96.3%

AA IND-MIA-92.5%; MIA-IND-92.2%
AA IND-PHX-90.2%; PHX-IND-92.8%
AA IND-LAX-89.6%; LAX-IND-89.3%
AA IND-PHL-86.0%; PHL-IND-89.5%
AA IND-DFW-84.4%; DFW-IND-89.9%
AA IND-ORD-83.1%; ORD-IND-85.5% (Envoy Only)
AA IND-CLT-82.9%; CLT-IND-91.0%
AA IND-AUS-82.0%; AUS-IND-83.3%
AA IND-DCA-79.4%; DCA-IND-83.3%
AA IND-JFK-65.1%; JFK-IND-79.6%

G4 IND-FLL-95.3%; FLL-IND-95.7%
G4 IND-PGD-95.1%; PGD-IND-95.9%
G4 IND-PIE-94.5%; PIE-IND-96.0%
G4 IND-JAX-94.3%; JAX-IND-93.5%
G4 IND-SFB-94.3%; SFB-IND-94.7%
G4 IND-SRQ-93.8%; SRQ-IND-94.9%
G4 IND-AUS-92.8%; AUS-IND-94.7%
G4 IND-LAS-92.6%; LAS-IND-93.7%
G4 IND-SAV-91.4%; SAV-IND-86.5%
G4 IND-CHS-86.5%; CHS-IND-84.8%
G4 IND-BOS-86.5%; BOS-IND-87.9%
G4 IND-VPS-80.3%; VPS-IND-80.4%
G4 IND-EYW-77.4%; EYW-IND-74.8%
G4 IND-MYR-77.1%; MYR-IND-74.7%

DL IND-LAX-92.6%; LAX-IND-91.6%
DL IND-ATL-91.4%; ATL-IND-90.1%
DL IND-MSP-88.4%; MSP-IND-89.4%
DL IND-LGA-83.4%; LGA-IND-80.8%(Endeavor only)
DL IND-DTW-81.9%; DTW-IND-75.2%
DL IND-BOS-80.7%; BOS-IND-90.9% (Endeavor only)
DL IND-JFK-72.2%; JFK-IND-83.6%

F9 IND-MCO-91.7%; MCO-IND-89.2%
F9 IND-LAS-87.6%; LAS-IND-95.3%
F9 IND-DEN-87.2%; DEN-IND-89.4%
F9 IND-RDU-77.2%; RDU-IND-73.5%

LF IND-BNA-53.3%; BNA-IND-67.3%

WN IND-DEN-95.0%; DEN-IND-93.6%
WN IND-SRQ-94.4%; SRQ-IND-89.8%
WN IND-PHX-93.3%; PHX-IND-92.5%
WN IND-HOU-93.2%; HOU-IND-91.7%
WN IND-DAL-93.1%; DAL-IND-92.1%
WN IND-LAS-91.8%; LAS-IND-91.9%
WN IND-FLL-90.5%; FLL-IND-93.3%
WN IND-ECP-89.9%; ECP-IND-78.3%
WN IND-MCO-88.1%; MCO-IND-89.8%
WN IND-RSW-87.6%; RSW-IND-93.5%
WN IND-ATL-87.2%; ATL-IND-92.9%
WN IND-TPA-85.8%; TPA-IND-91.3%
WN IND-AUS-85.2%; AUS-IND-95.0%
WN IND-BWI-84.7%; BWI-IND-80.7%

NK IND-LAS-87.8%; LAS-IND-87.1%
NK IND-MCO-87.3%; MCO-IND-92.5%
NK IND-EWR-54.8%; EWR-IND-54.7%

SY IND-MSP-88.1%; MSP-IND-81.8%

UA IND-DEN-92.6%; DEN-IND-89.9%
UA IND-SFO-91.1%; SFO-IND-87.6%
UA IND-IAH-83.4%; IAH-IND-85.3%
UA IND-IAD-80.8%; IAD-IND-83.8%
UA IND-EWR-78.1%; EWR-IND-85.7%

Combined
IND-ORD-84.3%; ORD-IND-83.5%
IND-BOS-73.5%; BOS-IND-76.1%
IND-LGA-62.9%; LGA-IND-72.2%

With 54% loads in a peak month NK to EWR probably won't be around much longer. Would like to see loads on all of their routes out of EWR.

NK had an overall 87% LF from EWR in June including the IND/PIT flights. If those flights were excluded they would probably be pushing 90%.

flyPIT wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

NK's PIT-EWR was 30% LF. They are running IND/PIT with A321s, which is their highest capacity aircraft

PIT-EWR has been a mix of A320 and A319s since early Sept.

July was the first full month of service and I remember the introductory fares were insanely high when the flights were first made available for booking months prior. But regardless I don't expect these flights to last.

IND-EWR is still an A321 through the end of the schedule.

I'd be pretty weird for a route to go from A321 to cancelled with nothing in between, especially since the IND-EWR route was part of NK's pitch to the DOT to get additional EWR access.

https://www.regulations.gov/comment/DOT ... -0103-0037

If/when IND-EWR gets cancelled I'd expect it to be downgraded first.

N292UX wrote:

kindeham wrote:

Aer Lingus has now added Hartford to their schedule. Hartford has far less passenger traffic than Indianapolis. Their press release says they plan to add transatlantic routes....I am very curious now to see what comes next.

At this point the only reason I would not see Aer Lingus jumping on IND is if they know BA is already planning on it.

I'm thinking that is the case as well. Wouldn't be surprised if we have some sort of announcement pretty soon

There is still 1-2 months left to announce a new TATL route

But if I was the State of Indiana, I'd rather wait another year instead of forking over 10M+ for Aer Lingus.....Which would close the door(for a long period) on a BA or the like to add a TATL route from IND.

Midwestindy wrote:

N292UX wrote:

kindeham wrote:

Aer Lingus has now added Hartford to their schedule. Hartford has far less passenger traffic than Indianapolis. Their press release says they plan to add transatlantic routes....I am very curious now to see what comes next.

At this point the only reason I would not see Aer Lingus jumping on IND is if they know BA is already planning on it.

I'm thinking that is the case as well. Wouldn't be surprised if we have some sort of announcement pretty soon

There is still 1-2 months left to announce a new TATL route

But if I was the State of Indiana, I'd rather wait another year instead of forking over 10M+ for Aer Lingus.....Which would close the door(for a long period) on a BA or the like to add a TATL route from IND.

Agree with you on this. Only way I add Aer Lingus if I am Indy is if BA (and some others) says they aren’t coming for at least a few years. Ideally I think you want Aer Lingus to be the 2nd TATL to come in after you get a legacy established for a few years. But I know “ideally” isn’t what always happens.

Midwestindy wrote:

There is still 1-2 months left to announce a new TATL route

But if I was the State of Indiana, I'd rather wait another year instead of forking over 10M+ for Aer Lingus.....Which would close the door(for a long period) on a BA or the like to add a TATL route from IND.

I certainly agree with you on this. I wonder how much leverage the state has over "chosing" an airline. What I mean, is if Aer Lingus says "we want to start IND-DUB 7x weekly from May we'd like some money, please," can the state legally say, "no, we're waiting for something better?"

kindeham wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

There is still 1-2 months left to announce a new TATL route

But if I was the State of Indiana, I'd rather wait another year instead of forking over 10M+ for Aer Lingus.....Which would close the door(for a long period) on a BA or the like to add a TATL route from IND.

I certainly agree with you on this. I wonder how much leverage the state has over "chosing" an airline. What I mean, is if Aer Lingus says "we want to start IND-DUB 7x weekly from May we'd like some money, please," can the state legally say, "no, we're waiting for something better?"

I’m guessing the state can target it however they want. Even if it’s we are offering this much money for a flight to XXX airport(s) only. Just don’t include DUB as one. But I would think they have as much flexibility as they want since they aren’t the airport.

Optics are eveyrthing. Getting too specific will only result in getting you right in the midst of a major pissing match which will end up not being worth it, or even up to possible court action.

A good look at recent stipulations could be the RDU incentives which landed Icelandair-
More than 1,400 miles from RDU.
A destination not served since at least 2019.

stlgph wrote:

Optics are eveyrthing. Getting too specific will only result in getting you right in the midst of a major pissing match which will end up not being worth it, or even up to possible court action.

A good look at recent stipulations could be the RDU incentives which landed Icelandair-
More than 1,400 miles from RDU.
A destination not served since at least 2019.

I am a little lost with the Icelandair / 1400 miles / RDU think. I am probably just missing something - could you fill me in or point me to what you're talking about? Just curious.

RDU was offering financial incentives to airlines to start new service. The stipulations were 1,400 miles from RDU and to a destination which had not been served since 2019. Those are fair and reasonable stipulations.

stlgph wrote:

RDU was offering financial incentives to airlines to start new service. The stipulations were 1,400 miles from RDU and to a destination which had not been served since 2019. Those are fair and reasonable stipulations.

Ahh okay! I read it as saying RDU was offering incentives for something and somehow ended up with a city 1400 miles from RDU getting the service instead.

Haha, no worries. Sorry if there was confusion