Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2022

BA744PHX · Sat Feb 19, 2022 11:02 pm

fedex1 wrote:
Great, surely couild IND get daily service? Or is that asking way too much for this market?

Not likely PDX at 5 weekly and PIT at 4 weekly

BangersAndMash · Sun Feb 20, 2022 12:53 am

BA744PHX wrote:
fedex1 wrote:
Great, surely couild IND get daily service? Or is that asking way too much for this market?

Not likely PDX at 5 weekly and PIT at 4 weekly

I was about to say daily from the get go may be a bit ambitious, but that's definitely what BA will be aiming for ultimately.

fedex1 · Mon Feb 21, 2022 12:57 am

I just hope the numbers @ IND keep coming up! We don't seem to be doing badly. I read what MidWest puts on here, he's a wealth of information, it seems. I love the industry, don't work in it!

Midwestindy · Tue Feb 22, 2022 2:49 pm

Official return of AC is May 15
https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/2022-02 ... rintable=1

Gap between AA and WN getting pretty crazy departures wise:

indygs · Tue Feb 22, 2022 4:06 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Official return of AC is May 15
https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/2022-02 ... rintable=1

Gap between AA and WN getting pretty crazy departures wise:

Curious, what's that look like in terms of seats? I'd imagine the gulf isn't as large given 737s on every WN departure and lots of EMB175s on AA's departures.

Midwestindy · Tue Feb 22, 2022 8:40 pm

indygs wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Official return of AC is May 15
https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/2022-02 ... rintable=1

Gap between AA and WN getting pretty crazy departures wise:

Curious, what's that look like in terms of seats? I'd imagine the gulf isn't as large given 737s on every WN departure and lots of EMB175s on AA's departures.

There should be some pretty high LFs this Spring outside DC/NYC/BOS, not nearly enough capacity in some markets. WN cut IND-SRQ to 1x weekly which was a 140 PDEW market in Q2 last year, and now its only WN 1x weekly and G4 2x weekly for April-May.

airboss787 · Tue Feb 22, 2022 11:13 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Official return of AC is May 15
https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/2022-02 ... rintable=1

Gap between AA and WN getting pretty crazy departures wise:

Do we know what equipment they will use? CRJ200 again?

adam47150 · Wed Feb 23, 2022 4:30 am

airboss787 wrote:

Do we know what equipment they will use? CRJ200 again?

Looks like it according to the website.

Indy · Wed Feb 23, 2022 1:14 pm

Any chance IND ever gets seasonal service to Anchorage?

Jshank83 · Wed Feb 23, 2022 2:39 pm

Indy wrote:
Any chance IND ever gets seasonal service to Anchorage?

Ever is a long time. So probably.

ibthebigd · Wed Feb 23, 2022 3:45 pm

Maybe Allegaint would try 2X weekly in the summer to ANC

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

Moosefire · Thu Feb 24, 2022 11:13 pm

Indy wrote:
Any chance IND ever gets seasonal service to Anchorage?

IND has daily ANC flights from its largest airline

Rocketman1972 · Fri Feb 25, 2022 4:54 am

When you absolutely, positively have to be there overnight... Ha!

Midwestindy · Sat Feb 26, 2022 3:22 pm

A lot to add today:

1)
Starting to see some Indy 500 upguages:

UA Monday after the race:
IND-EWR 3x mainline (8 total), IND-IAD also 3x mainline (4 total), along with some other upguages.

2)
Also starting to see the June schedules materialize outside of DL.

June peak day:
LF is inf. of 2021 seats, inf. of 2021 departures
AC is inf. of 2021 seats, inf. of 2021 departures
SY is 200% of 2021 seats, 200% of 2021 departures (weekly basis)
AS is 179% of 2021 seats, 200% of 2021 departures
UA is 135% of 2021 seats, 117% of 2021 departures
AA is 117% of 2021 seats, 114% of 2021 departures
G4 is 102% of 2021 departures (weekly basis)
NK is 87% of 2021 departures (weekly basis)

May peak day (Most up-to-date month for DL/WN)
DL is 103% of 2021 seats, 129% of 2021 departures
WN is 77% of 2021 seats, 79% of 2021 departures

F9 unclear

3) New contract with LF signed this week:

LF signed to BNA 4x weekly until October

MKE, PIT, RDU, MEM, MCI, & CLE listed again as markets to be renegotiated once the time allows
https://secure.in.gov/apps/iedc/transpa ... 1dd830812f

Gulfstream500 · Sat Feb 26, 2022 3:51 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
A lot to add today:

1)
Starting to see some Indy 500 upguages:

UA Monday after the race:
IND-EWR 3x mainline (8 total), IND-IAD also 3x mainline (4 total), along with some other upguages.

2)
Also starting to see the June schedules materialize outside of DL.

June peak day:
LF is inf. of 2021 seats, inf. of 2021 departures
AC is inf. of 2021 seats, inf. of 2021 departures
SY is 200% of 2021 seats, 200% of 2021 departures (weekly basis)
AS is 179% of 2021 seats, 200% of 2021 departures
UA is 135% of 2021 seats, 117% of 2021 departures
AA is 117% of 2021 seats, 114% of 2021 departures
G4 is 102% of 2021 departures (weekly basis)
NK is 87% of 2021 departures (weekly basis)

May peak day (Most up-to-date month for DL/WN)
DL is 103% of 2021 seats, 129% of 2021 departures
WN is 77% of 2021 seats, 79% of 2021 departures

F9 unclear

3) New contract with LF signed this week:

LF signed to BNA 4x weekly until October

MKE, PIT, RDU, MEM, MCI, & CLE listed again as markets to be renegotiated once the time allows
https://secure.in.gov/apps/iedc/transpa ... 1dd830812f

Interesting find on the potential Contour routes - I suspect that IND-MEM already has a lot of demand due to FedEx operating hubs out of IND and MEM.

bringbackATA · Sat Feb 26, 2022 5:02 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
A lot to add today:

1)
Starting to see some Indy 500 upguages:

UA Monday after the race:
IND-EWR 3x mainline (8 total), IND-IAD also 3x mainline (4 total), along with some other upguages.

2)
Also starting to see the June schedules materialize outside of DL.

June peak day:
LF is inf. of 2021 seats, inf. of 2021 departures
AC is inf. of 2021 seats, inf. of 2021 departures
SY is 200% of 2021 seats, 200% of 2021 departures (weekly basis)
AS is 179% of 2021 seats, 200% of 2021 departures
UA is 135% of 2021 seats, 117% of 2021 departures
AA is 117% of 2021 seats, 114% of 2021 departures
G4 is 102% of 2021 departures (weekly basis)
NK is 87% of 2021 departures (weekly basis)

May peak day (Most up-to-date month for DL/WN)
DL is 103% of 2021 seats, 129% of 2021 departures
WN is 77% of 2021 seats, 79% of 2021 departures

F9 unclear

3) New contract with LF signed this week:

LF signed to BNA 4x weekly until October

MKE, PIT, RDU, MEM, MCI, & CLE listed again as markets to be renegotiated once the time allows
https://secure.in.gov/apps/iedc/transpa ... 1dd830812f

Still surprised that when LF announced they chose the ( to my knowledge) least traveled rather the Memphis,MCI etc

MohawkWeekend · Sat Feb 26, 2022 5:17 pm

Do many of the FedEx employees deadhead on their own aircraft?

Midwestindy · Sat Feb 26, 2022 9:05 pm

MohawkWeekend wrote:
Do many of the FedEx employees deadhead on their own aircraft?

Pilots definitely, not sure the rules on other employees, but I'd assume other employees don't(can't)

floridaflyboy · Sat Feb 26, 2022 9:08 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
MohawkWeekend wrote:
Do many of the FedEx employees deadhead on their own aircraft?

Pilots definitely, not sure the rules on other employees, but I'd assume other employees don't(can't)

For sure, depends on their role, but it's definitely not just pilots in the jumpseat/extra seats on FedEx aircraft.

Midwestindy · Sat Feb 26, 2022 9:40 pm

floridaflyboy wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
MohawkWeekend wrote:
Do many of the FedEx employees deadhead on their own aircraft?

Pilots definitely, not sure the rules on other employees, but I'd assume other employees don't(can't)

For sure, depends on their role, but it's definitely not just pilots in the jumpseat/extra seats on FedEx aircraft.

Pilots and MX techs for sure, IT and corp roles would be a no though, right?

Much easier for Pilots and MX techs to jumpseat and be right at the hub, instead of having to take a shuttle to the FX hub from the IND terminal, especially with so many IND-MEM flights a day.

Theoretically though, if the pilots and MX technicians didn't jumpseat, IND-MEM demand would probably be 2x higher.

MohawkWeekend · Sun Feb 27, 2022 1:48 am

does FedEx own a corporate jet? Perhaps they run a once a week shuttle.

Midwestindy · Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:34 am

Midwestindy wrote:
Starting to see some Indy 500 upguages:

UA Monday after the race:
IND-EWR 3x mainline (8 total), IND-IAD also 3x mainline (4 total), along with some other upguages.

AA Monday Indy 500 so far:
CLT-6 Mainline, ORD-3 Mainline, PHL-1 mainline, LGA up to 5x

floridaflyboy · Thu Mar 03, 2022 7:11 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
floridaflyboy wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

Pilots definitely, not sure the rules on other employees, but I'd assume other employees don't(can't)

For sure, depends on their role, but it's definitely not just pilots in the jumpseat/extra seats on FedEx aircraft.

Pilots and MX techs for sure, IT and corp roles would be a no though, right?

Much easier for Pilots and MX techs to jumpseat and be right at the hub, instead of having to take a shuttle to the FX hub from the IND terminal, especially with so many IND-MEM flights a day.

Theoretically though, if the pilots and MX technicians didn't jumpseat, IND-MEM demand would probably be 2x higher.

That depends heavily on what the person's role is.

A friend who is a retired exec for FedEx used to fly on the company's planes very regularly for business. Most of FedEx's aircraft have a small seating section outside the flight deck door in addition to the actual cockpit jumpseats. However, they wouldn't have someone from the IT help desk who's running up to IND for a task fly on FedEx equipment, from my understanding.

My dad is a cargo pilot for another company. Back in the mid-90s, they used to let pretty much any employee travel in the jumpseat for either business or personal travel. That ended after a number of safety incidents caused by employees without proper experience riding in the flight deck (including a corporate employee screaming when the crew lowered the nose because she'd never seen the runway from that angle, causing the crew to implement a go-around and another incident with a corporate employee who decided it was a good idea to engage in flash photography on short final at night, also resulting in a go-around).

Totally agree that IND-MEM would be hopping if FX couldn't move the most frequent employees on their own metal.

bringbackATA · Sun Mar 06, 2022 5:16 am

Few things.
1. Anyone know if Champs is still open at the airport? Flying out Monday would definitely stop to eat there.
2. With The state recognizing RDU for Contour would AA essentially given us the Finger for any new routes?

3. Is AA still doing the IND-MCO route

Midwestindy · Sun Mar 06, 2022 2:46 pm

WN adding back some capacity they cut:

WN IND-MCO back up to 4x a day (Except for Tue/Wed) for May
WN IND-LAS back up to 3x a day (Except for Tue/Wed/Sat) for May

Still waiting on the fate of DL's IND-SEA, we'll see once DL edits up its June placeholder schedule

bringbackATA wrote:
Few things.
1. Anyone know if Champs is still open at the airport? Flying out Monday would definitely stop to eat there.
2. With The state recognizing RDU for Contour would AA essentially given us the Finger for any new routes?

3. Is AA still doing the IND-MCO route

RDU was been recognized since the original COVID contract last year, they just want someone to serve it, regardless of LF, AA, or DL

Too early to say if AA is still doing IND-MCO, they didn't announce it until April 14th last year. If they return it, it will likely be publicized sooner this year. Could be tricky to restart given oil prices and lack of staffing at the regionals

Midwestindy · Wed Mar 09, 2022 3:11 pm

Well well well, F9 adding IND-RDU

bringbackATA · Wed Mar 09, 2022 7:32 pm

[url][/url]

Midwestindy wrote:
Well well well, F9 adding IND-RDU

The last Carrier I would have thought of! Was thinking maybe G4 might have brought it. But I’d bet ya it will probably get cut. Doubt Biz travelers would take a ULCC

LagosLen · Thu Mar 10, 2022 12:59 am

Spirit has appeared to load Indianapolis to Newark flights for sale this summer.

ibthebigd · Thu Mar 10, 2022 1:00 am

I did a dummy booking and the times are horrible late departure both ways

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

Midwestindy · Thu Mar 10, 2022 1:33 am

LagosLen wrote:
Spirit has appeared to load Indianapolis to Newark flights for sale this summer.

Bring those fares down lol! Good there is a non-legacy option to NYC now

bringbackATA wrote:
[url][/url]
Midwestindy wrote:
Well well well, F9 adding IND-RDU

The last Carrier I would have thought of! Was thinking maybe G4 might have brought it. But I’d bet ya it will probably get cut. Doubt Biz travelers would take a ULCC

F9 does well from RDU for some reason.

Even if it does get cut, it's going to stimulate a ton of demand, and make it hard for DL/AA to ignore.

bringbackATA · Thu Mar 10, 2022 2:28 am

LagosLen wrote:
Spirit has appeared to load Indianapolis to Newark flights for sale this summer.

Hoping this could lead to the start of a Spirt Base here. I’d love to see SLC,PDX ( if Alaska hasn’t started this ) MSY and some International Destination that isn’t Cancun

piedmontf284000 · Thu Mar 10, 2022 3:32 am

ibthebigd wrote:
I did a dummy booking and the times are horrible late departure both ways

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

I tried to do an actual booking for late June. Both times are pretty bad, getting into Indy at 1130, but the outbound is worse in my opinion. Not getting into Newark until 1030pm? I don't want to be making my way into Penn Station after midnight. Even worse? The price. They want $673 for two N/S flights on June 22 & 26, for a two hr flight, with no seat assignment, and no carry on or checked bag. That is just utterly absurd, and here I thought the price at the gas pump today was the worst price gouging I had seen.

bringbackATA · Thu Mar 10, 2022 3:36 am

piedmontf284000 wrote:
ibthebigd wrote:
I did a dummy booking and the times are horrible late departure both ways

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

I tried to do an actual booking for late June. I don't mind the flight back (9pm-1125), but the outbound is awful. Not getting into Newark until 1030pm. Even worse? The price. They want $657 for two N/S on June 22-26, for a two hr flight, with no seat assignment, and no carry on or checked bag. That is just utterly absurd, and here I thought the price at the gas pump today was the worst price gouging I had seen.

It’ll go down once it’s officially announced

Midwestindy · Thu Mar 10, 2022 1:47 pm

piedmontf284000 wrote:
ibthebigd wrote:
I did a dummy booking and the times are horrible late departure both ways

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

I tried to do an actual booking for late June. Both times are pretty bad, getting into Indy at 1130, but the outbound is worse in my opinion. Not getting into Newark until 1030pm? I don't want to be making my way into Penn Station after midnight. Even worse? The price. They want $673 for two N/S flights on June 22 & 26, for a two hr flight, with no seat assignment, and no carry on or checked bag. That is just utterly absurd, and here I thought the price at the gas pump today was the worst price gouging I had seen.

IND-EWR appears to land in Newark at 8:05 PM, you will definitely get into Penn Station well before midnight.

I think these flight times will actually work for at least one leg of the journey.

Price will also come down, already seeing $75 on IND-EWR for June 22.

Unfortunately not sure how long this will last, given how so much capacity is already on IND-NYC relative to demand.

Midwestindy · Sat Mar 12, 2022 1:52 pm

Well the moment has arrived.....

DL is cutting IND-SEA.

For summer:
DL is going all 757 7x to ATL
3x E175 to BOS
5x E175 to LGA
3x CR9 to JFK
A321 + 3xCR9 to DTW
A321 + A320 + 2xCR9 to MSP

Before:

After:

indygs · Sat Mar 12, 2022 2:34 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Well the moment has arrived.....

DL is cutting IND-SEA.

For summer:
DL is going all 757 7x to ATL
3x E175 to BOS
5x E175 to LGA
3x CR9 to JFK
A321 + 3xCR9 to DTW
A321 + A320 + 2xCR9 to MSP

Before:

After:

Also of note is no A220 in IND, which I believe they'd put on the LGA and BOS routes. What a shame. Down 7 destinations.

bringbackATA · Sat Mar 12, 2022 3:18 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Well the moment has arrived.....

DL is cutting IND-SEA.

For summer:
DL is going all 757 7x to ATL
3x E175 to BOS
5x E175 to LGA
3x CR9 to JFK
A321 + 3xCR9 to DTW
A321 + A320 + 2xCR9 to MSP

Before:

After:

Deltas Fall from Grace is Incredible to see. Your Ball American

Midwestindy · Sat Mar 12, 2022 3:38 pm

indygs wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Well the moment has arrived.....

DL is cutting IND-SEA.

For summer:
DL is going all 757 7x to ATL
3x E175 to BOS
5x E175 to LGA
3x CR9 to JFK
A321 + 3xCR9 to DTW
A321 + A320 + 2xCR9 to MSP

Before:

After:

Also of note is no A220 in IND, which I believe they'd put on the LGA and BOS routes. What a shame. Down 7 destinations.

Looks like only one A220 departure this month through DTW, and then a hiatus until *tentatively* September. Smart on DL's part, since IND-BOS probably couldn't handle that much capacity this summer.

I don't think they had the A220 on IND-LGA, just IND-BOS (and IND-DTW this month)

bringbackATA wrote:
Deltas Fall from Grace is Incredible to see. Your Ball American

I know a lot of loyal DL people in IND, who've had no choice but to fly AA recently.

Regardless of aircraft guage, DL is only operating 27 departures which is only a few more than UA+AC in IND.

bringbackATA · Sat Mar 12, 2022 4:02 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
indygs wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Well the moment has arrived.....

DL is cutting IND-SEA.

For summer:
DL is going all 757 7x to ATL
3x E175 to BOS
5x E175 to LGA
3x CR9 to JFK
A321 + 3xCR9 to DTW
A321 + A320 + 2xCR9 to MSP

Before:

After:

Also of note is no A220 in IND, which I believe they'd put on the LGA and BOS routes. What a shame. Down 7 destinations.

Looks like only one A220 departure this month through DTW, and then a hiatus until *tentatively* September. Smart on DL's part, since IND-BOS probably couldn't handle that much capacity this summer.

I don't think they had the A220 on IND-LGA, just IND-BOS (and IND-DTW this month)

bringbackATA wrote:
Deltas Fall from Grace is Incredible to see. Your Ball American

I know a lot of loyal DL people in IND, who've had no choice but to fly AA recently.

Regardless of aircraft guage, DL is only operating 27 departures which is only a few more than UA+AC in IND.

I was a Delta Loyalist. Completely Turned to American now. Also Midwest do you have the Pdews of the Routes Contour identified

ilive4planes · Sat Mar 12, 2022 7:48 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Well the moment has arrived.....

DL is cutting IND-SEA.

For summer:
DL is going all 757 7x to ATL
3x E175 to BOS
5x E175 to LGA
3x CR9 to JFK
A321 + 3xCR9 to DTW
A321 + A320 + 2xCR9 to MSP

Before:

After:

Hope American Airlines takes advantage and grows alot more cause apparently Delta doesn't care about IND!

stlgph · Sat Mar 12, 2022 9:04 pm

Whether it be Delta or American, aren't you most likely connecting to your final destination, anyway? Not sure what the difference here is.

Midwestindy · Sat Mar 12, 2022 9:56 pm

stlgph wrote:
Whether it be Delta or American, aren't you most likely connecting to your final destination, anyway? Not sure what the difference here is.

No. Hypothetically speaking, lets say every pax leaving IND is connecting to their final destination:

You would have to still have to chose which airline to connect with, and some DL itineraries are no longer served 1-stop (or at all) due to the loss of SEA/SLC. In addition to DL routes that only have 1 or 2 connecting itineraries per day now, or have insane layover times.

For example, compare IND-RNO on DL vs. AA.

Or IND-HNL on DL vs. AA

Western itineraries really are tougher on DL unless you are flying to a major market, looking this summer, DL doesn't appear to be able to take you one-stop on IND-COS/EUG/FAT/JAC/JNU/KOA/LGB/OGG/PSP/e.t.c.

Jshank83 · Sat Mar 12, 2022 9:59 pm

Seems odd you have LAX and not SLC.

Indy · Sat Mar 12, 2022 11:08 pm

I dumped DL due to their race to the bottom. Looks like they are gutting IND and propping up ATL with all that 757 service. Might as well close down the club because they are completely irrelevant in IND. Next time I book a flight it will be with AA. Nice work Delta.

airplaneboy · Sat Mar 12, 2022 11:21 pm

SAN nonstop is resuming on WN albeit just once weekly on Saturdays.

bringbackATA · Sat Mar 12, 2022 11:48 pm

I’ve never been in the sky club. Would there be anyway to potentially convert it to a AA/one world club?

bringbackATA · Sat Mar 12, 2022 11:52 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
stlgph wrote:
Whether it be Delta or American, aren't you most likely connecting to your final destination, anyway? Not sure what the difference here is.

No. Hypothetically speaking, lets say every pax leaving IND is connecting to their final destination:

You would have to still have to chose which airline to connect with, and some DL itineraries are no longer served 1-stop (or at all) due to the loss of SEA/SLC. In addition to DL routes that only have 1 or 2 connecting itineraries per day now, or have insane layover times.

For example, compare IND-RNO on DL vs. AA.

Or IND-HNL on DL vs. AA

Western itineraries really are tougher on DL unless you are flying to a major market, looking this summer, DL doesn't appear to be able to take you one-stop on IND-COS/EUG/FAT/JAC/JNU/KOA/LGB/OGG/PSP/e.t.c.

Speaking of HNL. Did we have HNL on ATA? Can’t remember if we did or not. I know MDW had it

Midwestindy · Sun Mar 13, 2022 12:43 am

bringbackATA wrote:
I’ve never been in the sky club. Would there be anyway to potentially convert it to a AA/one world club?

Yes, although the lease was for 10 years which would have concluded in late 2020, with a potential 10 year option.

Unclear the status of this, given that a) They didn't have the IND club open for over a year IIRC, which potentially effects the lease timetable and b) I doubt they would have extended the lease during COVID

https://d1j6zi7czwjuok.cloudfront.net/i ... 021910.pdf

Jshank83 wrote:
Seems odd you have LAX and not SLC.

I'd imagine its more of a LAX thing than an IND thing, as in a LAX customer(s) wants IND service.

bringbackATA · Sun Mar 13, 2022 1:57 am

https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... minal.html Interesting to note that the President of WN called us a “economically strong connector”. Maybe could see some more WN routes?

stlgph · Sun Mar 13, 2022 4:09 pm

Hawaii on ATA always stopped out west before proceeding down the road.

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