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qf789
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Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2022

Fri Dec 31, 2021 2:12 pm

Welcome to Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2022. Please continues to add your comments below

Link to last thread

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1455975
 
greenair727
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2022

Fri Dec 31, 2021 9:29 pm

Happy New Year and new thread everyone. Looks like 15 departures out of CLE today and 15 arrivals into CLE today are cancelled. 13 of the 30 are on UA, which seems to be hit pretty hard by covid. At EWR, UA has 86 cancellations today.
 
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CLEguy
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2022

Sat Jan 01, 2022 3:45 pm

Happy New Year to all! Let's hope 2022 brings a return to a more "normal" world. These are my main aviation wishes for the new year: 1) a recovery of air traffic at CLE, 2) a finalized airport master plan with a clear recommendation for a new terminal, 3) a clear direction on aviation policy from the new Bibb administration, and 4) an announcement of transatlantic service for CLE. Safe travels everyone!!
 
masseybrown
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2022

Sat Jan 01, 2022 3:59 pm

CLEguy wrote:
Happy New Year to all! Let's hope 2022 brings a return to a more "normal" world. These are my main aviation wishes for the new year: 1) a recovery of air traffic at CLE, 2) a finalized airport master plan with a clear recommendation for a new terminal, 3) a clear direction on aviation policy from the new Bibb administration, and 4) an announcement of transatlantic service for CLE. Safe travels everyone!!


I'm betting you'll get 1, 2, and 4, even if the TATL is only an announcement for 2023 service. Bibb may want to be different, we'll see. Jackson obviously felt he couldn't be criticized for something he didn't say and therefore said as little as posible, which is actually not a bad approach. :D
 
greenair727
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2022

Sat Jan 01, 2022 7:00 pm

masseybrown wrote:
CLEguy wrote:
Happy New Year to all! Let's hope 2022 brings a return to a more "normal" world. These are my main aviation wishes for the new year: 1) a recovery of air traffic at CLE, 2) a finalized airport master plan with a clear recommendation for a new terminal, 3) a clear direction on aviation policy from the new Bibb administration, and 4) an announcement of transatlantic service for CLE. Safe travels everyone!!


I'm betting you'll get 1, 2, and 4, even if the TATL is only an announcement for 2023 service. Bibb may want to be different, we'll see. Jackson obviously felt he couldn't be criticized for something he didn't say and therefore said as little as possible, which is actually not a bad approach. :D


1. I think we'll see a recovery of traffic levels, though summer schedules are being loaded now or already, so the amount of recovery is limited at this point, though we could have a great Q3 and Q4.
2. Agree that the master plan process will continue, but there is no requirement to implement any of it; the only requirement was to do the plan, which leads to #3.
3. I doubt we'll see very much from Bibb in any real else on aviation and even in other areas of the city; I hope he surprises me, but I don't think he has the real skill, knowledge, or ability to get much done unfortunately. Outside of talking about "studying" Burke, I don't think he ever once mentioned Hopkins. It's not that he wasn't thinking about the airport, its that he doesn't seem to understand how or why aviation is important to the city which is a subset of his general limitations on what he knows or understands about the city.
4. TATL service. This prediction shows up every year! And now that STL has service, there are no more real major metro areas left without service, so we're really under the gun here. This depends on the economy, on covid, on #3 above, and how effective the new leader of GCP (chamber of commerce) will be. All four of these factors are up in the air....I'll hope for service, but will remain cautious at this point.
 
ncflyer
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2022

Sat Jan 01, 2022 8:21 pm

What’s needed for international is corporate pressure in a major huge enormous relentless way. Seems like that’s how STL got it. I mean think about it STL got a star alliance flight to Europe over cleveland even though they are a big one world and WN city. It probably wasn’t LH busting on the door of STL but the other way around. I just don’t see it, CLE economy thrives mainly on smaller and mid size companies we don’t have a huge Goliath like say Cincinnati. Nothing wrong with that it’s just how it is. I suppose CCF is a Goliath but lord I hope they don’t use their “non profit” resources to pressure for international flights. Maybe maybe maybe SWilliams pressured the city to improve air service and facilities in exchange for staying time will tell.
 
avtcle
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2022

Sat Jan 01, 2022 9:57 pm

Happy New Year! 2021 was a better than expected year for CLE. United was certainly the star this year in regards to restoring their schedule and adding more flights.

United: Added NAS, PWM, PNS, HHH, MYR, TPA, LAS, PHX. Expanded service to FLL, RSW, MCO, CUN. Resumed service to LAX, SFO.

Delta: Not much new. Briefly resumed SLC in December, now ends permanently on Jan 4th.

American: Not much new. PHX service was expanded to daily and extended through June.

Southwest: On the decline. Routes have returned, but frequencies are slashed. Most days F9 and NK eclipse their schedule.

Frontier: PUJ & CUN are back. Expanded service to MIA, RSW, TPA, MCO. PHX expanded to daily, year-round.

Allegiant: Bye-bye on January 3rd!

Spirit: Brought CUN back, purchased new gate and office space... Announcement pending?

JetBlue: Nothing new.

Alaska Airlines: FINALLY announced nonstop service to SEA.

Air Canada: YYZ service returned.
 
ncflyer
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2022

Sun Jan 02, 2022 1:50 am

Among many cancellations today 1/1/22 (every airline in on the act today at CLE to some degree), WN cancelled its late night flights from BNA and MDW. With so few flights into CLE nowadays I have no clue how WN gets those people back to CLE to end their vacations. Another rough one Allegiant cancelled Sarasota yesterday 12/31. 1-800-Hertz anyone?
 
greenair727
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2022

Sun Jan 02, 2022 2:11 am

ncflyer wrote:
Among many cancellations today 1/1/22 (every airline in on the act today at CLE to some degree), WN cancelled its late night flights from BNA and MDW. With so few flights into CLE nowadays I have no clue how WN gets those people back to CLE to end their vacations. Another rough one Allegiant cancelled Sarasota yesterday 12/31. 1-800-Hertz anyone?


If Allegiant cancels a CLE-bound flight and its the last day of their service to and in CLE in general---what does Allegiant do with those passengers? A simple refund isn't enough as those pax likely couldn't get a one-way fare to CLE with zero days notice for that price on another airline. Or do they fly a make-up flight after they officially pull out of CLE, landing as a non-signatory using contracted ramp support?
 
ncflyer
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2022

Sun Jan 02, 2022 4:59 am

That’s why I pointed out the Allegiant flight. They have what, one more SRQ round trip left. I suspect they do nothing. What do they care they’re leaving…refund the money and move on is what I suspect they do.
 
fun2fly
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2022

Sun Jan 02, 2022 3:54 pm

We originated in JAC>DEN yesterday. I can tell you that UA handled its delays way better than DL. They had the 12/31and 1/1 ATL 757's schedule to leave that little airport at the same time. The 12/31 one was loaded second. The jetbridge to commence boarding wasn't in place 2 hours after the 24 hour delay, so probably 27+ hour delay and more missed connections in ATL. Plus, DL LAX cancelled. Ugh.

UA had 120 connectors out of 150 seats on the JAC>DEN 320 flight.

I was on UA DEN>CLE last night delayed approx. 1 hour. I thought UA did a good job in DEN holding a/c for pax and bags. We were held 1 hour on the last flight of the night. We all made it home an hour late, but everyone was on board and most of our bags. DEN loaded 161 bags on the 738 and they cut out probably 30 more bags due to weight...skiers (I'm one). We ended up getting a few of ours. Overall, with covid wreaking havoc on the system, it wasn't too bad on our flights.

To add to the fun last night, EWR>STL diversion to CLE last night about midnight UA4455. Not enough fuel was what the agent told me. Not sure if there were storms out east.
 
masseybrown
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2022

Mon Jan 03, 2022 4:12 pm

CLE-SJU is a regular entry on the largest unserved route lists. Last year, Q2 showed 121 pax per day each way with the dare about 7.7 cents per mile. I'm guessing a non-stop fight command at least 2 cents more. Wouldn't you think that would interest F9 or NK for a couple flights a week? Apparently not. The route is still unserved for this winter season.
 
fun2fly
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2022

Mon Jan 03, 2022 6:30 pm

masseybrown wrote:
CLE-SJU is a regular entry on the largest unserved route lists. Last year, Q2 showed 121 pax per day each way with the dare about 7.7 cents per mile. I'm guessing a non-stop fight command at least 2 cents more. Wouldn't you think that would interest F9 or NK for a couple flights a week? Apparently not. The route is still unserved for this winter season.


Did CO ever run this daily? I'm guessing that UA or DL could profitably fill an E75 (and possibly a 73G/319) w/o issue daily based on those #'s (two most logical carriers that seem to look at P2P's).
 
FLYKTPA
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2022

Mon Jan 03, 2022 7:04 pm

fun2fly wrote:
masseybrown wrote:
CLE-SJU is a regular entry on the largest unserved route lists. Last year, Q2 showed 121 pax per day each way with the dare about 7.7 cents per mile. I'm guessing a non-stop fight command at least 2 cents more. Wouldn't you think that would interest F9 or NK for a couple flights a week? Apparently not. The route is still unserved for this winter season.


Did CO ever run this daily? I'm guessing that UA or DL could profitably fill an E75 (and possibly a 73G/319) w/o issue daily based on those #'s (two most logical carriers that seem to look at P2P's).


The Delta of today does very little P2P. Almost none actually. Most everything touches a hub or focus city.

If CLE-SJU happens it’ll be Frontier or Spirit. The only full service carrier who would even consider it would probably be UA (probably as a Saturday only E170 like the NAS flight) or JetBlue (although unlikely as they’ve cut back a lot at SJU).
 
masseybrown
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2022

Mon Jan 03, 2022 7:38 pm

fun2fly wrote:
Did CO ever run this daily? I'm guessing that UA or DL could profitably fill an E75 (and possibly a 73G/319) w/o issue daily based on those #'s (two most logical carriers that seem to look at P2P's).


Yes. Didn't they call it the Alomar Express? :D

I guess CLE-SJU is one of those "profitable, but not profitable enough" routes.
 
jplatts
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2022

Mon Jan 03, 2022 7:40 pm

FLYKTPA wrote:
The Delta of today does very little P2P. Almost none actually. Most everything touches a hub or focus city.


There are still some DL nonstop routes out of CVG, RDU, and DCA that aren't to DL hubs such as CVG-AUS/DEN/FLL/RSW/LAS/EWR/MCO/TPA/DCA, RDU-FLL/LAS/MIA/EWR/MCO/TPA/DCA, and DCA-LEX/MSN/OMA.
 
Trk1
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2022

Mon Jan 03, 2022 7:50 pm

United ran nonstops from Cle to San Juan on saturdays on 737
 
Trk1
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2022

Mon Jan 03, 2022 7:51 pm

United ran nonstops from Cle to San Juan on saturdays on 737 up to thru 2018
 
Jshank83
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2022

Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:06 pm

jplatts wrote:
FLYKTPA wrote:
The Delta of today does very little P2P. Almost none actually. Most everything touches a hub or focus city.


There are still some DL nonstop routes out of CVG, RDU, and DCA that aren't to DL hubs such as CVG-AUS/DEN/FLL/RSW/LAS/EWR/MCO/TPA/DCA, RDU-FLL/LAS/MIA/EWR/MCO/TPA/DCA, and DCA-LEX/MSN/OMA.


They said that touches a hub OR FOCUS CITY.

CVG is a focus city. I think RDU is also.
 
fun2fly
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2022

Mon Jan 03, 2022 10:27 pm

Interesting on the P2P, DL used to run CLE>MCO and a ton of midwest cities to CUN so I thought that it could be logical. Probably a pipe dream at this point.

We have a new mayor! Let's see how this goes. Should we send him a link to join our thread?
 
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CLEguy
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2022

Tue Jan 04, 2022 7:16 pm

Some good news (I think) out of Cleveland City Hall today:

"Message from Robert Kennedy, Director of Port Control, City of Cleveland
I am honored to have been sworn in as the Director of Port Control for Mayor Bibb’s administration. I congratulate all cabinet members who were also sworn in as members of Mayor Bibb's administration.
It is an honor to be part of Mayor Bibb’s administration that helps move the city toward a bright future. The Department of Port Control looks forward to supporting Mayor Bibb and his vision for Cleveland and the city’s airports. Today, we continue to do our part in building a movement of change to drive the Mayor’s initiatives of modernization, transparency and providing high quality services."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUoN5ltvfr8
 
greenair727
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2022

Tue Jan 04, 2022 7:59 pm

CLEguy wrote:
Some good news (I think) out of Cleveland City Hall today:

"Message from Robert Kennedy, Director of Port Control, City of Cleveland
I am honored to have been sworn in as the Director of Port Control for Mayor Bibb’s administration. I congratulate all cabinet members who were also sworn in as members of Mayor Bibb's administration.
It is an honor to be part of Mayor Bibb’s administration that helps move the city toward a bright future. The Department of Port Control looks forward to supporting Mayor Bibb and his vision for Cleveland and the city’s airports. Today, we continue to do our part in building a movement of change to drive the Mayor’s initiatives of modernization, transparency and providing high quality services."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUoN5ltvfr8


Well this certainly is not the change that Bibb had promised--and it will give us more the same in terms of Hopkins and Burke. Kennedy was/is not very active or successful or effective on the TATL front, fixing FIS issues, or other new routes (and I'm only talking pre-pandemic). But I had no expectation of Bibb trying to address any of this as I don't think he even realized that there were any issues or problems at all about the FIS, air service, or the terminal itself. He just doesn't know. That said, though not an extremely effective leader of the airport and while the airport and air service are a critical part of a future Cleveland, Kennedy is an experienced airport leader and he is certainly better than being replaced by a 25-year old campaign supporter or friend of Bibb's which we are seeing in some of his other appointments. But this move (or lack of move!) certainly pokes holes in the promises of change that Bibb spouted on the campaign trail as a proper change in this role could have facilitated major changes in the city. Only two days in office and we're already seeing more about who Bibb really is.
 
ncflyer
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2022

Tue Jan 04, 2022 8:44 pm

I get impression that Kennedy strength is around the facility moreso than route development. Any cle airport leader is dealt a terrible hand on route development especially international for a bunch of reasons— passive business community, UA does not have partner in London or Paris, too close to Detroit, CAK and is a pesky neighbor, and more. Continuity is vital to seeing the master facility plan turn to reality so I think this is good news.
 
ncflyer
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2022

Tue Jan 04, 2022 9:02 pm

And in other city news city council committees restructured. Of note: “The Transportation Committee, chaired by Kerry McCormack, has expanded its purview to examine regional transportation policies, and focus more on non-automobile forms of transportation, like rail, bicycles, e-bikes, and scooters.”

Hey I love biking more than anyone and the growth in bike trails in greater cleveland is tremendous and wonderful but do bike trails belong under same purview as a multi billion dollar regional asset? Wonder what skills Kerry McCormack has in the airport business I need to look in to that.

Link to full article. Not under paywall yet b

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2022/01/ ... -arts.html
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2022

Tue Jan 04, 2022 11:04 pm

Earlier folks were worried Kennedy would be pushed out in typical crony politics. He's done a good job with the limited resources he has. No news is good news when it comes to the airport.
 
AaronPGH
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Jan 05, 2022 12:08 am

FWIW, Cleveland's bike network and parks are what finally made me fall in love with the city over the last two years. It's huge for quality of life, and great PR when telling Cleveland's story to the world. Airports are important to get people into town, amenities help them say "yeah, I can live here!"
 
ncflyer
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Jan 05, 2022 12:58 am

Greenair I don't get the negativity on Mayor Bibb, not at all, I"m very hopeful. He's reached out to business leaders, had some good ones on his transition team, yes he's young and not a ton of experience but same with lots and lots of young people that have tremendous success in life. He didn't mention the airport in campaigning but that's because it's not an important issue compared to crime or schools to voters in the city.

Is it his position on Burke? Even on that he clearly plans to take his sweet time navigating through that one, can't see him pulling a Mayor Dailey.
 
greenair727
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Jan 05, 2022 2:45 am

ncflyer wrote:
Greenair I don't get the negativity on Mayor Bibb, not at all, I"m very hopeful. He's reached out to business leaders, had some good ones on his transition team, yes he's young and not a ton of experience but same with lots and lots of young people that have tremendous success in life. He didn't mention the airport in campaigning but that's because it's not an important issue compared to crime or schools to voters in the city.

Is it his position on Burke? Even on that he clearly plans to take his sweet time navigating through that one, can't see him pulling a Mayor Dailey.


I'm hopeful he will be a good, or at least effective, mayor and won't be a national embarrassment (Dennis the Sequel and all) for the city, but I do not see him as having the capability to be an effective and competent mayor. I don't agree with all the hype around him that he will (or can) turn things around. I know that he is very well liked so far, and that should hopefully play well in his favor to build coalitions and get things done. I hope he knows how to actually navigate and leverage such inter-organizational nuances. As a specific example, I really don't think he understands the true importance of airports and air service and the role they play, so he may make some bad decisions despite his good intentions.
 
Trk1
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Jan 05, 2022 2:45 pm

No reason he will not do a good job--- new young smart book is needed in this area. That is why we lag in many things. He will do just fine with the airport
 
greenair727
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Jan 05, 2022 2:54 pm

Trk1 wrote:
No reason he will not do a good job--- new young smart book is needed in this area. That is why we lag in many things. He will do just fine with the airport


I hope so!
 
ncflyer
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Jan 05, 2022 3:35 pm

Has anyone noticed or has it been discussed how much capacity there is to NY these days. To LGA 5 Delta 5 AA. To EWR 7 UA. To JFK 4 AA 3 DL. 24 flights total. This for a business market not a leisure destination, and not the best connection hubs out there. I dropped off a friend flying to rDU via JFK yesterday AA he said there were 10 in the main cabin of his embraer 175. Slot sitting the NY airports is good for cleveland air service.
 
masseybrown
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Jan 05, 2022 4:43 pm

Trk1 wrote:
No reason he will not do a good job--- new young smart book is needed in this area. That is why we lag in many things. He will do just fine with the airport


I agree. He claims to be a progressive; but he listens to all sides and seems to be more interested in economic development for the region than political doctrine..
 
umichman
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Jan 05, 2022 4:56 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
jplatts wrote:
FLYKTPA wrote:
The Delta of today does very little P2P. Almost none actually. Most everything touches a hub or focus city.


There are still some DL nonstop routes out of CVG, RDU, and DCA that aren't to DL hubs such as CVG-AUS/DEN/FLL/RSW/LAS/EWR/MCO/TPA/DCA, RDU-FLL/LAS/MIA/EWR/MCO/TPA/DCA, and DCA-LEX/MSN/OMA.


They said that touches a hub OR FOCUS CITY.

CVG is a focus city. I think RDU is also.


RDU is officially still a focus city. DL dropped focus city designations for BNA and SJC recently to refocus on other priorities. CVG is not officially a focus city (as far as DL PR is concerned), but still has a fair number of PTP routes for a supposed spoke. AUS is supposedly still a focus city, but is basically all hub/focus city flights (depending on how you consider CVG).

https://raleighconvergence.com/2021/03/ ... s-airport/
 
greenair727
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Jan 05, 2022 5:59 pm

ncflyer wrote:
Has anyone noticed or has it been discussed how much capacity there is to NY these days. To LGA 5 Delta 5 AA. To EWR 7 UA. To JFK 4 AA 3 DL. 24 flights total. This for a business market not a leisure destination, and not the best connection hubs out there. I dropped off a friend flying to rDU via JFK yesterday AA he said there were 10 in the main cabin of his embraer 175. Slot sitting the NY airports is good for cleveland air service.


24 total-that's great---that's about where we were pre-pandemic.

Was just on Kayak earlier looking at CLE-EWR---and for the dates I needed it gave me: UA $168 -- and Greyhound $151. Thought that was interesting. I didn't ask for a bus but Kayak included it.by default. Only $17 cheaper and about 10 hours longer of a trip! I guess if one is afraid of flying or banned from an airline, its a reasonable option!
 
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Citrus1492
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Jan 05, 2022 9:42 pm

Air Canada has cancelled the YYZCLEYYZ turn for the fourth day in a row. Are these poor customers coming back to the airport everyday just to be sent away in frustration every time?
AC was always late before the "pandemic", now they just don't seem to care for their customers at all.
 
greenair727
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2022

Thu Jan 06, 2022 1:35 am

Citrus1492 wrote:
Air Canada has cancelled the YYZCLEYYZ turn for the fourth day in a row. Are these poor customers coming back to the airport everyday just to be sent away in frustration every time?
AC was always late before the "pandemic", now they just don't seem to care for their customers at all.


To me, AC is a horrible airline. I'll never fly them again. From CLE, pre-pandemic, int'l flights to Europe were ofter a few hundred dollars cheaper on AC (via YYZ) vs. UA/DL/AA, etc via EWR/DTW/JFK, etc. Even so, I gladly paid a few hundred more on all my flights not to fly AC.
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2022

Thu Jan 06, 2022 2:18 am

I knew alot of people who did choose AC. It was even cheaper for them to drive to Toronto.
 
Jshank83
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2022

Thu Jan 06, 2022 6:23 am

Citrus1492 wrote:
Air Canada has cancelled the YYZCLEYYZ turn for the fourth day in a row. Are these poor customers coming back to the airport everyday just to be sent away in frustration every time?
AC was always late before the "pandemic", now they just don't seem to care for their customers at all.


Guessing they route them on UA thru ORD or EWR.
 
LifetimeGS
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2022

Thu Jan 06, 2022 3:55 pm

Eastern Canada closed again, wonder if it's that or just AC related.
 
joeman
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2022

Thu Jan 06, 2022 4:12 pm

MohawkWeekend wrote:
I knew alot of people who did choose AC. It was even cheaper for them to drive to Toronto.

I have at least one friend who did the drive to Toronto to catch AC to Europe. Don't know what AC was charging for the CLE segment, but I find it highly disproportionately confounding that my searches show an AC CLE-YYX-CLE roundtrip ordinarily costs more than twice that of LGA-YYZ-LGA.
 
jplatts
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2022

Thu Jan 06, 2022 4:50 pm

avtcle wrote:
Southwest: On the decline. Routes have returned, but frequencies are slashed. Most days F9 and NK eclipse their schedule.


CLE can likely support the return of WN CLE-DAL nonstop service with NK having already dropped CLE-DFW nonstop service through the end of current schedule (which goes through 9/6/2022) along with AA currently being the only airline serving the DFW/DAL market nonstop from CLE.

Demand has also already recovered on some other WN nonstop routes out of DAL, and CLE also had higher PDEW's to the DFW/DAL market in Q2 2021 than some markets with WN nonstop service out of DAL.

CLE can also likely support the return of daily nonstop service to LAS and PHX on WN once WN has more planes in its fleet, and WN also had strong load factors on CLE-LAS nonstop service 3 years ago prior to dropping CLE-LAS to Saturday-only in June 2019.
 
plinth857
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2022

Thu Jan 06, 2022 6:41 pm

jplatts wrote:
avtcle wrote:
Southwest: On the decline. Routes have returned, but frequencies are slashed. Most days F9 and NK eclipse their schedule.


CLE can likely support the return of WN CLE-DAL nonstop service with NK having already dropped CLE-DFW nonstop service through the end of current schedule (which goes through 9/6/2022) along with AA currently being the only airline serving the DFW/DAL market nonstop from CLE.

Demand has also already recovered on some other WN nonstop routes out of DAL, and CLE also had higher PDEW's to the DFW/DAL market in Q2 2021 than some markets with WN nonstop service out of DAL.


I can't help but point out that CLE-DFW was one of the last routes cut by UA as they drew down the hublet in CLE. Wonder if they would ever consider bringing that one back.
 
jplatts
Posts: 7147
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2022

Thu Jan 06, 2022 8:29 pm

plinth857 wrote:
I can't help but point out that CLE-DFW was one of the last routes cut by UA as they drew down the hublet in CLE. Wonder if they would ever consider bringing that one back.


WN probably could more easily fill CLE-DAL nonstop flights than UA could on CLE-DFW due to
(a) the significant FF base that WN has in the Dallas/Fort Worth market,
(b) the connecting opportunities that would be there to other WN destinations in TX/NM/AZ/NV/CA through DAL, and
(c) WN likely to charge lower fares for CLE-DAL nonstop flights than UA would for CLE-DFW nonstop flights.

On the other hand, there aren't any connecting opportunities to non-UA destinations in the Northeast from UA CLE-DFW flights with UA no longer serving having any nonstop service out of CLE to non-hub destinations in the Northeast. UA also already serves its EWR and IAD hubs nonstop from DFW, and there are also plenty of other nonstop options to both the NYC and WAS markets from both DFW and DAL.

UA would also be able to operate CLE-DFW nonstop service using 70-seat E-170/E-175 regional jets.
 
avtcle
Posts: 855
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:21 am

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2022

Fri Jan 07, 2022 3:58 pm

Was on UA1064 LAS-CLE on Tuesday. Was a Boeing 737 MAX-9 that night, interestingly enough. Lots of passengers chatting about how they are glad the nonstop flight is back. Flight was probably 85-90% full. Could certainly see this remain, even if just to please their CLE mileage burners.
 
User avatar
SLCaviation
Posts: 279
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2021 12:24 am

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2022

Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:05 pm

Delta plans to bring SLC/CLE back in Q4 2022 or Q1 2023.
 
ncflyer
Posts: 1996
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 7:03 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2022

Fri Jan 07, 2022 6:38 pm

If not mistaken CLE has three LAS red eyes. Spirit Frontier United. Would sure be nice if someone had a daytime flight to be distinctive. WN used to but not anymore. By the way I don’t believe that UA flight is usually a Max-9. Maybe for CES week.

avtcle wrote:
Was on UA1064 LAS-CLE on Tuesday. Was a Boeing 737 MAX-9 that night, interestingly enough. Lots of passengers chatting about how they are glad the nonstop flight is back. Flight was probably 85-90% full. Could certainly see this remain, even if just to please their CLE mileage burners.
 
avtcle
Posts: 855
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:21 am

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2022

Fri Jan 07, 2022 7:25 pm

Some UA schedule changes, I’m guessing due to COVID staffing shortages: CLE-LAS, CLE-TPA flights off the schedule starting next week only through February 1st, CLE-IAH, CLE-ORD frequency reductions through February 1st.
 
Trk1
Posts: 425
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2017 5:37 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2022

Sat Jan 08, 2022 2:59 pm

January is always the lowest travel month in the country and at Hopkins. However 2022 looks to be a disaster. Most all carriers have cut flights off the schedule for the entire month due to staffing issues. Even with the flight cuts the advance bookings have just tanked. We will have several days in the next 2 weeks that load factor for all carriers at Hopkins will be under 20%. Flights to Miami that only have 20 passengers. Flights to New York that have 2 passengers. Flights to Vegas with under 20. A total of only 7 flights per day on all carriers to Chicago and awful loads. The COVID situation has really made passengers think twice. Sure hope that virus will peak this month and February can return to a better situation.
 
masseybrown
Posts: 6081
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2022

Sat Jan 08, 2022 9:44 pm

Trk1 wrote:
January is always the lowest travel month in the country and at Hopkins. However 2022 looks to be a disaster. Most all carriers have cut flights off the schedule for the entire month due to staffing issues. Even with the flight cuts the advance bookings have just tanked. We will have several days in the next 2 weeks that load factor for all carriers at Hopkins will be under 20%. Flights to Miami that only have 20 passengers. Flights to New York that have 2 passengers. Flights to Vegas with under 20. A total of only 7 flights per day on all carriers to Chicago and awful loads. The COVID situation has really made passengers think twice. Sure hope that virus will peak this month and February can return to a better situation.


40 of my Cleveland high school classmates and myself were going to meet up in Florida in February for a reunion of sorts. By popular vote last week it was cancelled . There must be thousands of these decisions being taken every day.
 
greenair727
Posts: 2253
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:27 am

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2022

Sun Jan 09, 2022 3:48 pm

masseybrown wrote:
Trk1 wrote:
January is always the lowest travel month in the country and at Hopkins. However 2022 looks to be a disaster. Most all carriers have cut flights off the schedule for the entire month due to staffing issues. Even with the flight cuts the advance bookings have just tanked. We will have several days in the next 2 weeks that load factor for all carriers at Hopkins will be under 20%. Flights to Miami that only have 20 passengers. Flights to New York that have 2 passengers. Flights to Vegas with under 20. A total of only 7 flights per day on all carriers to Chicago and awful loads. The COVID situation has really made passengers think twice. Sure hope that virus will peak this month and February can return to a better situation.


40 of my Cleveland high school classmates and myself were going to meet up in Florida in February for a reunion of sorts. By popular vote last week it was cancelled . There must be thousands of these decisions being taken every day.


I agree. Hopefully these events, including yours, are postponed and not made virtual or just cancelled outright.
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