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BASE10
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Re: Flair Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Mon Jul 11, 2022 10:28 pm

Would be great to work in some connecting traffic, at least give people the option even if it is at a bit of a premium. Maybe even domestic to international and vice-versa only to start. I understand that complicates things but to fill 189 seats on some of these routes it might very well be a necessary evil.
 
YEGFlyer
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Re: Flair Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Tue Jul 12, 2022 2:26 am

Yet from what I have now heard, they're in high 80s to 90s domestically.
 
ElPistolero
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Re: Flair Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Tue Jul 12, 2022 12:45 pm

Acey wrote:
Juju2004 wrote:
YVR-BUR is doing significantly better than YEG. They reduced YEG to 1x weekly while keeping YVR at 3x weekly

Loads are absolute trash on both, they're comparably bad.

They clearly just have more hope for YVR.


Same poster claims BUR has 70% loads? I recall you claiming to have data for YYC through some affiliation with the airport authority (that right?). Do you have data for YVR and YEG too?
 
Juju2004
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Re: Flair Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Tue Jul 12, 2022 2:43 pm

Acey wrote:
Juju2004 wrote:
YVR-BUR is doing significantly better than YEG. They reduced YEG to 1x weekly while keeping YVR at 3x weekly

Loads are absolute trash on both, they're comparably bad.

They clearly just have more hope for YVR.


All international routes from YEG have trash loads.
 
Dominion301
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Re: Flair Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Tue Jul 12, 2022 3:35 pm

Markus787 wrote:
Looks like YEG Burbank is dead.

YVR Burbank goes from 3 to 2 weekly

https://aeroroutes.com/eng/220711-f8jul22bur

Who woulda guessed flying empty planes was not a viable business model ..


Sounds like they’re trying to convert it into a winter seasonal sun route. They’d be far better off shifting all this to PSP.
 
nine4nine
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Re: Flair Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Tue Jul 12, 2022 5:14 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
Markus787 wrote:
Looks like YEG Burbank is dead.

YVR Burbank goes from 3 to 2 weekly

https://aeroroutes.com/eng/220711-f8jul22bur

Who woulda guessed flying empty planes was not a viable business model ..


Sounds like they’re trying to convert it into a winter seasonal sun route. They’d be far better off shifting all this to PSP.



Why? There’s more to So. Cal than just Palm Springs.
LA/Hollywood/Malibu/Disneyland/Universal Studios/Santa Monica/SixFlags/Santa Barbara all within short to reasonably short distance to BUR. The loads are getting better and better and people in Canada and the US are just starting to hear about Flair and where it flys. Give it time
 
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BA744PHX
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Re: Flair Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Tue Jul 12, 2022 5:45 pm

So Flair is dropping TUS-YMM/YEG.

I wouldn’t of expected other routes before YEG, if they can’t make YEG work what makes them think their 5 other random routes from TUS will work?
 
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cirrusdragoon
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Re: Flair Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Tue Jul 12, 2022 5:52 pm

BA744PHX wrote:
So Flair is dropping TUS-YMM/YEG.

I wouldn’t of expected other routes before YEG, if they can’t make YEG work what makes them think their 5 other random routes from TUS will work?


Not surprised.
 
Dominion301
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Re: Flair Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Tue Jul 12, 2022 7:34 pm

nine4nine wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
Markus787 wrote:
Looks like YEG Burbank is dead.

YVR Burbank goes from 3 to 2 weekly

https://aeroroutes.com/eng/220711-f8jul22bur

Who woulda guessed flying empty planes was not a viable business model ..


Sounds like they’re trying to convert it into a winter seasonal sun route. They’d be far better off shifting all this to PSP.


Why? There’s more to So. Cal than just Palm Springs.
LA/Hollywood/Malibu/Disneyland/Universal Studios/Santa Monica/SixFlags/Santa Barbara all within short to reasonably short distance to BUR. The loads are getting better and better and people in Canada and the US are just starting to hear about Flair and where it flys. Give it time


Because PSP to western Canadians is akin to RSW or TPA for eastern Canadians in terms of seasonal demand for sun leisure flying. It’s a “safe” bet. I realize F8 already serves PSP. BUR is completely unknown to Canadians for the LA basin given until recently the only way to get there was a 1- or 2- stop routing. LAX dominates with some knowledge for SNA.

BA744PHX wrote:
So Flair is dropping TUS-YMM/YEG.

I wouldn’t of expected other routes before YEG, if they can’t make YEG work what makes them think their 5 other random routes from TUS will work?


Both of those routes are still bookable on their website.
 
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BA744PHX
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Re: Flair Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Tue Jul 12, 2022 9:12 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
nine4nine wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:

Sounds like they’re trying to convert it into a winter seasonal sun route. They’d be far better off shifting all this to PSP.


Why? There’s more to So. Cal than just Palm Springs.
LA/Hollywood/Malibu/Disneyland/Universal Studios/Santa Monica/SixFlags/Santa Barbara all within short to reasonably short distance to BUR. The loads are getting better and better and people in Canada and the US are just starting to hear about Flair and where it flys. Give it time


Because PSP to western Canadians is akin to RSW or TPA for eastern Canadians in terms of seasonal demand for sun leisure flying. It’s a “safe” bet. I realize F8 already serves PSP. BUR is completely unknown to Canadians for the LA basin given until recently the only way to get there was a 1- or 2- stop routing. LAX dominates with some knowledge for SNA.

BA744PHX wrote:
So Flair is dropping TUS-YMM/YEG.

I wouldn’t of expected other routes before YEG, if they can’t make YEG work what makes them think their 5 other random routes from TUS will work?


Both of those routes are still bookable on their website.

TUS updates was posted by another user on different website who is very reliable. This should be updated on their website soon
 
Dominion301
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Re: Flair Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Wed Jul 13, 2022 12:38 pm

BA744PHX wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
nine4nine wrote:

Why? There’s more to So. Cal than just Palm Springs.
LA/Hollywood/Malibu/Disneyland/Universal Studios/Santa Monica/SixFlags/Santa Barbara all within short to reasonably short distance to BUR. The loads are getting better and better and people in Canada and the US are just starting to hear about Flair and where it flys. Give it time


Because PSP to western Canadians is akin to RSW or TPA for eastern Canadians in terms of seasonal demand for sun leisure flying. It’s a “safe” bet. I realize F8 already serves PSP. BUR is completely unknown to Canadians for the LA basin given until recently the only way to get there was a 1- or 2- stop routing. LAX dominates with some knowledge for SNA.

BA744PHX wrote:
So Flair is dropping TUS-YMM/YEG.

I wouldn’t of expected other routes before YEG, if they can’t make YEG work what makes them think their 5 other random routes from TUS will work?


Both of those routes are still bookable on their website.

TUS updates was posted by another user on different website who is very reliable. This should be updated on their website soon


Copy that. It would be the first time Flair has dropped a route before it even launches.
 
YEGFlyer
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Re: Flair Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Wed Jul 13, 2022 3:53 pm

Juju2004 wrote:
Acey wrote:
Juju2004 wrote:
YVR-BUR is doing significantly better than YEG. They reduced YEG to 1x weekly while keeping YVR at 3x weekly

Loads are absolute trash on both, they're comparably bad.

They clearly just have more hope for YVR.


All international routes from YEG have trash loads.

This is not correct, SFO has been oversold regularly, LAS is consistently busy.
 
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IceCream
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Re: Flair Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Wed Jul 13, 2022 4:00 pm

YEGFlyer wrote:
Juju2004 wrote:
Acey wrote:
Loads are absolute trash on both, they're comparably bad.

They clearly just have more hope for YVR.


All international routes from YEG have trash loads.

This is not correct, SFO has been oversold regularly, LAS is consistently busy.

How do you know? I'm pretty sure Acey has actual data/sources.
 
Acey
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Re: Flair Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Wed Jul 13, 2022 5:24 pm

Yeah they're all awful, and definitely in comparison to the domestic routes out of YEG and YYC which are all doing well except for YQQ. It's all relative, LAS- YEG at 60% LF could be called "consistently busy" if BUR-YEG is the comparison.

The highest load I see on YEG-SFO is 137 pax in the last month... which I guess is "oversold" in Flair speak when your plane has 189 seats. YEG-BUR struggles to get to a triple digit pax count... and I mean struggled.

The fact that they're bailing on the transborder routes suggests these numbers are correct. :rotfl:
 
Juju2004
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Re: Flair Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Wed Jul 13, 2022 6:44 pm

Wonder what LFs look like on Swoop since they seem to like flooding Flair routes with extra seats
 
nname
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Re: Flair Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Wed Jul 13, 2022 8:07 pm

BA744PHX wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
nine4nine wrote:

Why? There’s more to So. Cal than just Palm Springs.
LA/Hollywood/Malibu/Disneyland/Universal Studios/Santa Monica/SixFlags/Santa Barbara all within short to reasonably short distance to BUR. The loads are getting better and better and people in Canada and the US are just starting to hear about Flair and where it flys. Give it time


Because PSP to western Canadians is akin to RSW or TPA for eastern Canadians in terms of seasonal demand for sun leisure flying. It’s a “safe” bet. I realize F8 already serves PSP. BUR is completely unknown to Canadians for the LA basin given until recently the only way to get there was a 1- or 2- stop routing. LAX dominates with some knowledge for SNA.

BA744PHX wrote:
So Flair is dropping TUS-YMM/YEG.

I wouldn’t of expected other routes before YEG, if they can’t make YEG work what makes them think their 5 other random routes from TUS will work?


Both of those routes are still bookable on their website.

TUS updates was posted by another user on different website who is very reliable. This should be updated on their website soon


YEG-TUS is the route where Flair bring the plane to/from TUS for the operation there. So if they drop the route, then either they'll have to drop all TUS routes, or have to add a new one from another base (YVR, YXX, YYC, YYZ, YKF, or YOW).
 
Skywatcher
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Re: Flair Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Wed Jul 13, 2022 8:08 pm

BA744PHX wrote:
So Flair is dropping TUS-YMM/YEG.

I wouldn’t of expected other routes before YEG, if they can’t make YEG work what makes them think their 5 other random routes from TUS will work?


Were these already operating or planned for next winter?
 
Juju2004
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Re: Flair Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Wed Jul 13, 2022 8:31 pm

nname wrote:

YEG-TUS is the route where Flair bring the plane to/from TUS for the operation there. So if they drop the route, then either they'll have to drop all TUS routes, or have to add a new one from another base (YVR, YXX, YYC, YYZ, YKF, or YOW).


YYC is not a base and will probably not be for the near future. Maybe after YUL is opened this winter or next spring.
 
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IceCream
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Re: Flair Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Wed Jul 13, 2022 8:55 pm

Juju2004 wrote:
Wonder what LFs look like on Swoop since they seem to like flooding Flair routes with extra seats

considering Swoop bailing on routes as well, probably just as bad.
 
YEGFlyer
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Re: Flair Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Thu Jul 14, 2022 12:51 am

Acey wrote:
Yeah they're all awful, and definitely in comparison to the domestic routes out of YEG and YYC which are all doing well except for YQQ. It's all relative, LAS- YEG at 60% LF could be called "consistently busy" if BUR-YEG is the comparison.

The highest load I see on YEG-SFO is 137 pax in the last month... which I guess is "oversold" in Flair speak when your plane has 189 seats. YEG-BUR struggles to get to a triple digit pax count... and I mean struggled.

The fact that they're bailing on the transborder routes suggests these numbers are correct. :rotfl:

I have heard a slightly different story, but either way, I think for 1st year entry into new market, this isn't really that bad. Likely they have more low hanging fruit domestically, but I think the TB routes prove that there is a market there, just needs some TLC to grow it.

And I will just say that if your numbers come from seat maps, I don't put any stock in those as being an accurate representation of loads.
 
Acey
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Re: Flair Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Thu Jul 14, 2022 2:29 am

YEGFlyer wrote:
And I will just say that if your numbers come from seat maps, I don't put any stock in those as being an accurate representation of loads.

No, my numbers come from working at the airport, thankfully not for Flair. Doing a dummy booking on every single flight operated by every airline to generate seat maps is certainly not something I have time for.
 
flyb
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Re: Flair Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Thu Jul 14, 2022 1:40 pm

Acey wrote:
YEGFlyer wrote:
And I will just say that if your numbers come from seat maps, I don't put any stock in those as being an accurate representation of loads.

No, my numbers come from working at the airport, thankfully not for Flair. Doing a dummy booking on every single flight operated by every airline to generate seat maps is certainly not something I have time for.


In 2006 WS accessed a competitors LF data it cost them a lot of money. Flair also keeps this information confidential clearing stating it is for flight information only.
 
samuelx88
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Re: Flair Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Thu Jul 14, 2022 4:24 pm

I don't understand why they never tried Canada's 7th largest city, YQB. They seem to be trying 20s of smaller cities to avoid trying Quebec. Even Air France is doing great so I wouldn't see why a ULCC wouldn't work in this city.
 
Juju2004
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Re: Flair Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Thu Jul 14, 2022 4:34 pm

samuelx88 wrote:
I don't understand why they never tried Canada's 7th largest city, YQB. They seem to be trying 20s of smaller cities to avoid trying Quebec. Even Air France is doing great so I wouldn't see why a ULCC wouldn't work in this city.


Largely underserved for a city of 1 million plus it's been ranked countless times as Canada's best tourist destination.
 
YEGFlyer
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Re: Flair Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Thu Jul 14, 2022 5:17 pm

Likely will happen. F8 is growing at yul so wouldn't be surprised to see yqb added.
 
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CrewBunk
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Re: Flair Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Thu Jul 14, 2022 6:11 pm

YEGFlyer wrote:
Likely will happen. F8 is growing at yul so wouldn't be surprised to see yqb added.

So what do you see Flair doing “properly” in Quebec that Westjet could not?
 
Skywatcher
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Re: Flair Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Thu Jul 14, 2022 6:48 pm

Quebec City has 800k metro population not "over 1 million". Still large in a Canadian context though. It is very, very underserved domestically and to the USA.
I believe the constant attack on the English language by the current and previous Quebec governments sends a very negative message to people in the rest of Canada/USA. They simply refuse to visit except more adventurous travellers.

I know from first hand experience that many feel unwelcome.
 
YEGFlyer
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Re: Flair Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Thu Jul 14, 2022 9:23 pm

Yes, they aren't friendly to tourists from rest of Canada. I think F8 would focus on Quebec outbound rather than bringing rest of Canada to Quebec. With a base in a French speaking region, it should be possible, F/As should speak good French. Sun routes (Florida, Varadero, other carribean) plus sub-daily service to major cities across Canada, plus maybe Las Vegas should be doable from YQB. Frequencies would be sub daily or just daily in most cases to aim to Quebec leisure passengers. Make the French announcements before English and do some local media appearances (especially tout le monde en parle), and you should be good to go. And need to ensure you hire some Quebec French native speakers for your call centre. I guess the other thing is not to always cancel the Quebec flights to keep Alberta/ Ontario on schedule like WestJet did, but that shouldn't be as much of a problem for Flair because they have all local aircraft bases, so the system isn't as interconnected.
 
Juju2004
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Re: Flair Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Thu Jul 14, 2022 9:37 pm

Quebec City is flooded with tourists from Europe and Asia. I guess part of the lack of Canadian tourists might also be due to the few affordable options to get there? I mean if there was a 50$ flight from Toronto people would surely be visiting more. Right now you either got to buy an extremely expensive ticket or fly to Montreal and take a bus/train/rent a car to get there.
 
Juju2004
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Re: Flair Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Thu Jul 14, 2022 9:53 pm

On another note, they seem to be going ahead with flights to Tucson even if they are cancelling Edmonton and McMurray as reported previously. Eric Tanner VP of network planning held a press meeting at YXU today.

One of the most notable parts:
“Tickets have been selling for about a month now, and they are selling quite well. In terms of what our winter booking curves are, all of our Tucson flights are outpacing our standard booking curve, so we’re really excited to see that, and we’re looking forward to launching some real marketing to educate customers about what makes Tucson in Arizona so great.”

Not sure if that's believeable..
 
Acey
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Re: Flair Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Fri Jul 15, 2022 1:07 am

CrewBunk wrote:
YEGFlyer wrote:
Likely will happen. F8 is growing at yul so wouldn't be surprised to see yqb added.

So what do you see Flair doing “properly” in Quebec that Westjet could not?

Yeah WS is bailing this on YYC-YQB with a pretty big feed on the western end, the chance of it working for Flair from YEG seems slims at best.

Juju2004 wrote:
Not sure if that's believeable..


If he means relative to their present transborder operation as a whole, that is perhaps believable. Relative to the entire operation, it's tough to believe that, as most Flair domestic runs are jam packed (minus the few failing oddballs like YQQ)
 
YEGFlyer
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Re: Flair Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Fri Jul 15, 2022 4:03 pm

Juju2004 wrote:
On another note, they seem to be going ahead with flights to Tucson even if they are cancelling Edmonton and McMurray as reported previously. Eric Tanner VP of network planning held a press meeting at YXU today.

One of the most notable parts:
“Tickets have been selling for about a month now, and they are selling quite well. In terms of what our winter booking curves are, all of our Tucson flights are outpacing our standard booking curve, so we’re really excited to see that, and we’re looking forward to launching some real marketing to educate customers about what makes Tucson in Arizona so great.”

Not sure if that's believeable..

I don't see YEG and YMM as cancelled anywhere. Source??
 
YEGFlyer
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Re: Flair Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Fri Jul 15, 2022 4:05 pm

Acey wrote:
Yeah WS is bailing this on YYC-YQB with a pretty big feed on the western end, the chance of it working for Flair from YEG seems slims at best.

F8 would have no competition on YEG and they do not feel the need to run a flight on a daily basis. But I don't think they will focus on western Canada-Quebec in any event. I think they will focus on Quebec outbound.
 
yyztpa2
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Re: Flair Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Fri Jul 15, 2022 4:06 pm

Acey wrote:
YEGFlyer wrote:
And I will just say that if your numbers come from seat maps, I don't put any stock in those as being an accurate representation of loads.

No, my numbers come from working at the airport, thankfully not for Flair. Doing a dummy booking on every single flight operated by every airline to generate seat maps is certainly not something I have time for.

Interesting job that lets you count passenger volumes on any carriers flights.
 
Juju2004
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Re: Flair Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Fri Jul 15, 2022 4:26 pm

YEGFlyer wrote:
I don't see YEG and YMM as cancelled anywhere. Source??


Not sure if it's accurate as there are no indications of it yet but a user reported it in this thread a page or two back.
 
YEGFlyer
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Re: Flair Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Fri Jul 15, 2022 4:31 pm

YMM would fight that tooth and nail. They want TB service, bad.
 
YEGFlyer
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Re: Flair Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Fri Jul 15, 2022 5:01 pm

 
777luver
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Re: Flair Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Fri Jul 15, 2022 8:16 pm

YEGFlyer wrote:
https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/airline-ratings-worlds-best-airlines-2022/index.html F8 listed as a top LCC.


HA! Really? I don’t see how that’s even close to possible, it’s in the realm of 0 chance. I highly doubt it, F8 is often referred to as the Ryanair of Canada but OK.
 
ElPistolero
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Re: Flair Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Fri Jul 15, 2022 8:39 pm

YEGFlyer wrote:
https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/airline-ratings-worlds-best-airlines-2022/index.html F8 listed as a top LCC.


A little more from the Airline Ratings website:

Airlineratings.com Editor-in-Chief Geoffrey Thomas said that “each of these airlines has a good safety record and has made a big difference in their respective markets.”

“From Southwest Airlines which started the low-cost revolution in the 1970s to Flair which redefines the low-cost product, each airline has made a huge contribution to affordable travel.”

https://www.airlineratings.com/news/pas ... ines-2022/

777luver wrote:
HA! Really? I don’t see how that’s even close to possible, it’s in the realm of 0 chance. I highly doubt it, F8 is often referred to as the Ryanair of Canada but OK.


Yeah, I have the same reaction anytime any Canadian carrier shows up in a global top 10. Well, I would if they ever did. Maybe TS has in the charter category?

This seems to have been released yesterday, and F8’s PR department doesn’t appear to have jumped on it yet, so maybe it’s a surprise to them too.

F8 strikes me as a pretty run-of-the-mill ULCC, so maybe it’s just recognition of the fact that they were the first to dive into a famously overpriced market.

Alternatively, maybe it’s a reflection of this:

“Flair Airlines and Super Channel today announced that they are joining forces to provide a high-quality onboard experience. The Edmonton-based companies have partnered to offer Flair Airlines' passengers an extensive collection of Super Channel programming inflight, with over 200 hours of content available now on select routes.”

https://www.bloomberg.com/press-release ... nt-onboard

Pretty innovative for a ULCC; having had Super Channel for a few months, there’s some pretty decent programming on that.

Either that, or the CEO of AirlineRatings is trolling AC/RV and WS/WO. Unsurprisingly, no Canadian airline made the mainline global top 20, but this is consistent with the Skytrax rankings they like to push around here.

I guess the same folk who cheer on Skytrax regional ratings. will be out cheering a Canadian airline showing up in another top 10? I mean, this is a positive for Canadian aviation and consumers, no? ;)
 
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AC853
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Re: Flair Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Fri Jul 15, 2022 9:34 pm

Juju2004 wrote:
Acey wrote:
Juju2004 wrote:
YVR-BUR is doing significantly better than YEG. They reduced YEG to 1x weekly while keeping YVR at 3x weekly

Loads are absolute trash on both, they're comparably bad.

They clearly just have more hope for YVR.


All international routes from YEG have trash loads.

From personal experience, KLM from YEG to AMS has a very high load factor. If they didn’t we would be rerouted through YYC or YVR. KLM has operated three weekly flights for a number of years now.
 
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usxguy
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Re: Flair Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Fri Jul 15, 2022 9:46 pm

yyztpa2 wrote:
Acey wrote:
YEGFlyer wrote:
And I will just say that if your numbers come from seat maps, I don't put any stock in those as being an accurate representation of loads.

No, my numbers come from working at the airport, thankfully not for Flair. Doing a dummy booking on every single flight operated by every airline to generate seat maps is certainly not something I have time for.

Interesting job that lets you count passenger volumes on any carriers flights.


CATSA gets the numbers for security planning..... airport ops also get it.
 
yyztpa2
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Re: Flair Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Fri Jul 15, 2022 11:28 pm

usxguy wrote:
yyztpa2 wrote:
Acey wrote:
No, my numbers come from working at the airport, thankfully not for Flair. Doing a dummy booking on every single flight operated by every airline to generate seat maps is certainly not something I have time for.

Interesting job that lets you count passenger volumes on any carriers flights.


CATSA gets the numbers for security planning..... airport ops also get it.

And those employees are allowed to share in the public domain?
 
ElPistolero
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Re: Flair Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Fri Jul 15, 2022 11:40 pm

yyztpa2 wrote:
usxguy wrote:
yyztpa2 wrote:
Interesting job that lets you count passenger volumes on any carriers flights.


CATSA gets the numbers for security planning..... airport ops also get it.

And those employees are allowed to share in the public domain?


Yeah, I found that very odd too. Isn’t that commercially sensitive information that can’t be shared publicly by employees?
 
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usxguy
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Re: Flair Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sat Jul 16, 2022 12:39 am

ElPistolero wrote:
yyztpa2 wrote:
usxguy wrote:

CATSA gets the numbers for security planning..... airport ops also get it.

And those employees are allowed to share in the public domain?


Yeah, I found that very odd too. Isn’t that commercially sensitive information that can’t be shared publicly by employees?


Psh... that's never stopped people before. A lot of sensitive information gets posted on this website that has no business being on here.

Just stating that as someone involved in managing a reservations system for a Canadian airline for 5 years, we provide our boarding totals to a variety of agencies and companies. We don't want to, but we do.
 
flyb
Posts: 584
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 7:39 am

Re: Flair Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sat Jul 16, 2022 7:34 am

But to share load information is an offence when not taken from a public site.
 
Acey
Posts: 1254
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 2:06 pm

Re: Flair Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sun Jul 17, 2022 10:43 am

AC853 wrote:
Juju2004 wrote:
Acey wrote:
Loads are absolute trash on both, they're comparably bad.

They clearly just have more hope for YVR.


All international routes from YEG have trash loads.

From personal experience, KLM from YEG to AMS has a very high load factor. If they didn’t we would be rerouted through YYC or YVR. KLM has operated three weekly flights for a number of years now.


I'd hope he was speaking only of Flair... lots of international routes have done well from YEG pre-pandemic and moving forward now in post-pandemic recovery.

YEGFlyer wrote:
YMM would fight that tooth and nail. They want TB service, bad.

This could be also subsidies on the Arizona side being reduced or cancelled, we really don't know. For these flights to have even been announced I think we all agree that there's definitely money coming from a lot of different places. Grants from airports on both ends, governments, whatever the case may be.
 
ElPistolero
Posts: 2788
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:44 am

Re: Flair Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Mon Jul 18, 2022 10:06 pm

usxguy wrote:
ElPistolero wrote:
yyztpa2 wrote:
And those employees are allowed to share in the public domain?


Yeah, I found that very odd too. Isn’t that commercially sensitive information that can’t be shared publicly by employees?


Psh... that's never stopped people before. A lot of sensitive information gets posted on this website that has no business being on here.

Just stating that as someone involved in managing a reservations system for a Canadian airline for 5 years, we provide our boarding totals to a variety of agencies and companies. We don't want to, but we do.


Judging by the handle, could be a rival airline employee. All a bit strange, but I guess F8 has made it something of a habit of contributing to making masks slip around here. The WS affiliates have quietened down a bit, so guess it’s natural that others are coming out swinging.
 
alo2yyz
Posts: 125
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2019 1:53 am

Re: Flair Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Tue Jul 19, 2022 11:33 pm

Appears as though YEG-BNA is down to 1x week now instead of 2x/week. I don't know if it's gone seasonal or if they just haven't loaded December yet, but it's not bookable over Christmas.

Anecdotally, I've head that the loads were pretty bad on the Tuesday flight and better-but-hardly-full on the Saturday flight.
 
flyb
Posts: 584
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 7:39 am

Re: Flair Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Wed Jul 20, 2022 2:38 am

AC853 wrote:
Juju2004 wrote:
Acey wrote:
Loads are absolute trash on both, they're comparably bad.

They clearly just have more hope for YVR.


All international routes from YEG have trash loads.

From personal experience, KLM from YEG to AMS has a very high load factor. If they didn’t we would be rerouted through YYC or YVR. KLM has operated three weekly flights for a number of years now.


I believe it was a reference to Flair in particular. KLM has been booked solid and over sold most of June and July. The 9th was the first flight in 6 weeks not fully booked but still over 95%

Flair flights to Tucson still a go from YEG
 
Acey
Posts: 1254
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 2:06 pm

Re: Flair Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Wed Jul 20, 2022 12:41 pm

flyb wrote:
AC853 wrote:
Juju2004 wrote:

All international routes from YEG have trash loads.

From personal experience, KLM from YEG to AMS has a very high load factor. If they didn’t we would be rerouted through YYC or YVR. KLM has operated three weekly flights for a number of years now.


I believe it was a reference to Flair in particular. KLM has been booked solid and over sold most of June and July. The 9th was the first flight in 6 weeks not fully booked but still over 95%

Flair flights to Tucson still a go from YEG


Absolutely. Even when KLM was reduced to the triangle with YYC due to pandemic restrictions on int'l arrivals, YEG was doing more than their share to contribute to the route. Hell, even when it wasn't the only option direct to Europe it still did well.

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