oldJoe wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

oldJoe wrote:

This isn`t the first time a Q400 could be replaced by an A220-100. Luxair is still considering this which would look like this :
http://www.airline-empires.com/index.php?/gallery/image/30807-luxair-airbus-a220-100/
If Airbus anounce the -500 than Luxair would be a sole A220 operator with all three variants in its fleet

Do you have a link on Luxair actively being in an A220 sales campaign? I have only seen they are interested in the A220-500:
https://www.aerotime.aero/articles/2998 ... s-a220-500

Lightsaber

Your link is a summary of the original interview from January 17th 2022 ( in German only )
https://www.aerotelegraph.com/wenn-airbus-den-a220-500-bringen-wuerde-waere-das-fuer-luxair-genial

from the interview translated :

Still, we need to start fleet renewal in 2024 or 2025. We look at the Airbus A220 and the Embraer E2. With it we can replace the Dash 8 and the Boeing 737-700.

and

Would it be possible for Luxair to end up operating just one model of aircraft?
If Airbus would bring the A220-500, then that would of course be awesome for us. But that doesn't exist yet. Therefore, the chance of a mixed fleet is high. We definitely need a bigger aircraft above A220-300 and E915-E2. Luxair could fill jets like the Airbus A320 or the A321 well.

Thank you. The "summary" highlighted the desire for the A220-500 and skipped over the "less sexy" potential replacements.

Not necessarily for Luxair, but I would expect the rated capacity increase to 149 seats will sell a few more A223. To whom would be pure speculation.
https://www.aviationpros.com/aircraft/m ... -up-to-149


I look forward to Farnborough. I think this year is too early for an A225. However, I think it is possible within 3 years. Just my opinion, but we're starting to get so close to Farnborough that future sales announcements will be held for the airshow. I'm not sure about my opinion on that. We're finally hitting enough economy of scale on the aircraft and engines where that concern should stop inhibiting sales... (I hope, just my opinion.)
https://theaircurrent.com/aircraft-deve ... us-agenda/

Luxair could be very interesting. I'm doubting an A225 launch, but it would guarantee all Airbus...

AeroMexico was shown the A220 as part of the sales campaign flight.

https://www.aviacionline.com/2022/04/ai ... -customer/

Personally, I think the AeroMexico order could go either way. It will be a very interesting order as it would give either program momentum.

I haven't updated the list in a bit. I'm sad I haven't seen MOUs finalized (Green Africa). I removed one airline (the "new" Ukrainian airline) and added Aeromexico and LATAM from the current sales campaign. There might be a few more to add due to the current sales campaign.


Realized campaigns in 2022, qty 72 aircraft
1. Azorra (20 A223, 2 two twenty)
2. Aviation Capital (20 A220)
3. JetBlue (30 A223 in addition to already 70 on order, so now a hundred)

Active campaigns
1.Air Burkina
2. Possible top off order for 10 by AirCanada
3. Possible top off by AirFrance, dependent upon A225 launch?
4. Croatia Airways (possibly 2 others in Croatia, I don't know if they were serious or just kicking tires)
5. Green Africa (at MOU for 50 per prior discussion in thread)
6. Israir
7. LOT (possibly a large order)
8. SAS (possibly a large order)
9. Uganda Airways
10. LH group for A319 replacement and regional replacement (new order, possibly a large order)

11. Luxair (replace Q400 and 73G, desire for A225), possibly a large order
New:
--------------------------------------------------------
12. AeroMexico, possibly a large order (see link below)
13. LATAM (per link below a possibility)? I know iffy, but with so many iffy possibilities, I chose LATAM as the most likely and added them to the list.


One I'm judging should be removed from the list:
* A new Ukraine airline MOU for 6, but this is unlikely for a few years I think...
https://www.scramble.nl/civil-news/ukra ... al-airline


Not much change in a month.

Warning, open in an incognito tab (I always have to end up purging the cookies after opening simpleflying links in a normal tab).
https://simpleflying.com/airbus-a220-ma ... h-america/

The above link includes Azul which... I don't believe so I chose not to add it to the list (they already have the E2 on order). I'm going to be skeptical of LATAM, but perhaps a conversion of other Airbus orders?

I would speculate more leasing companies at Farnborough, but that is just a hunch. The tour stopped in Panama, but I'm not sure about COPA. I can hope, but I don't know enough to add them to the list. Also a mention of a trip to Argentina; again I just don't know enough to add an airline to the list.
https://www.aviacionline.com/2022/04/ch ... ves-fidae/


Lightsaber

lightsaber wrote:

I haven't updated the list in a bit. I'm sad I haven't seen MOUs finalized (Green Africa). I removed one airline (the "new" Ukrainian airline) and added Aeromexico and LATAM from the current sales campaign. There might be a few more to add due to the current sales campaign.


Realized campaigns in 2022, qty 72 aircraft
1. Azorra (20 A223, 2 two twenty)
2. Aviation Capital (20 A220)
3. JetBlue (30 A223 in addition to already 70 on order, so now a hundred)

Active campaigns
1.Air Burkina
2. Possible top off order for 10 by AirCanada
3. Possible top off by AirFrance, dependent upon A225 launch?
4. Croatia Airways (possibly 2 others in Croatia, I don't know if they were serious or just kicking tires)
5. Green Africa (at MOU for 50 per prior discussion in thread)
6. Israir
7. LOT (possibly a large order)
8. SAS (possibly a large order)
9. Uganda Airways
10. LH group for A319 replacement and regional replacement (new order, possibly a large order)

11. Luxair (replace Q400 and 73G, desire for A225), possibly a large order
New:
--------------------------------------------------------
12. AeroMexico, possibly a large order (see link below)
13. LATAM (per link below a possibility)? I know iffy, but with so many iffy possibilities, I chose LATAM as the most likely and added them to the list.


One I'm judging should be removed from the list:
* A new Ukraine airline MOU for 6, but this is unlikely for a few years I think...
https://www.scramble.nl/civil-news/ukra ... al-airline


Not much change in a month.

Warning, open in an incognito tab (I always have to end up purging the cookies after opening simpleflying links in a normal tab).
https://simpleflying.com/airbus-a220-ma ... h-america/

The above link includes Azul which... I don't believe so I chose not to add it to the list (they already have the E2 on order). I'm going to be skeptical of LATAM, but perhaps a conversion of other Airbus orders?

I would speculate more leasing companies at Farnborough, but that is just a hunch. The tour stopped in Panama, but I'm not sure about COPA. I can hope, but I don't know enough to add them to the list. Also a mention of a trip to Argentina; again I just don't know enough to add an airline to the list.
https://www.aviacionline.com/2022/04/ch ... ves-fidae/


Lightsaber

Breeze also ordered 20 A223 in Mar 2021

lightsaber wrote:

Luxair could be very interesting. I'm doubting an A225 launch, but it would guarantee all Airbus...

AeroMexico was shown the A220 as part of the sales campaign flight.

https://www.aviacionline.com/2022/04/ai ... -customer/

Personally, I think the AeroMexico order could go either way. It will be a very interesting order as it would give either program momentum.

That was an undisclosed order in 2021 that was made official in September 2021:
https://onemileatatime.com/news/breeze- ... %20a%20lag.

This isn’t a new order, but rather it’s just now being disclosed. This spring Airbus revealed that there was an undisclosed order for 20 Airbus A220s. As it turns out, Breeze was the airline behind that order. The airline sure is growing aggressively, as the A220 order total was increased from 60 to 80 planes before operations were even launched.

I'm sure Breeze will order more, but that top off, I would expect, is a while away.

SAS and LH group are the two big orders I hope to see at Farnborough. I also really hope the Green Airways order is finalized (too many MOUs in this industry are never finalized). My hunch is LOT will slide into 2023 due to current events.

Lightsaber

lightsaber wrote:

I haven't updated the list in a bit. I'm sad I haven't seen MOUs finalized (Green Africa). I removed one airline (the "new" Ukrainian airline) and added Aeromexico and LATAM from the current sales campaign. There might be a few more to add due to the current sales campaign.


Realized campaigns in 2022, qty 72 aircraft
1. Azorra (20 A223, 2 two twenty)
2. Aviation Capital (20 A220)
3. JetBlue (30 A223 in addition to already 70 on order, so now a hundred)

Active campaigns
1.Air Burkina
2. Possible top off order for 10 by AirCanada
3. Possible top off by AirFrance, dependent upon A225 launch?
4. Croatia Airways (possibly 2 others in Croatia, I don't know if they were serious or just kicking tires)
5. Green Africa (at MOU for 50 per prior discussion in thread)
6. Israir
7. LOT (possibly a large order)
8. SAS (possibly a large order)
9. Uganda Airways
10. LH group for A319 replacement and regional replacement (new order, possibly a large order)

11. Luxair (replace Q400 and 73G, desire for A225), possibly a large order
New:
--------------------------------------------------------
12. AeroMexico, possibly a large order (see link below)
13. LATAM (per link below a possibility)? I know iffy, but with so many iffy possibilities, I chose LATAM as the most likely and added them to the list.


One I'm judging should be removed from the list:
* A new Ukraine airline MOU for 6, but this is unlikely for a few years I think...
https://www.scramble.nl/civil-news/ukra ... al-airline


Not much change in a month.

Warning, open in an incognito tab (I always have to end up purging the cookies after opening simpleflying links in a normal tab).
https://simpleflying.com/airbus-a220-ma ... h-america/

The above link includes Azul which... I don't believe so I chose not to add it to the list (they already have the E2 on order). I'm going to be skeptical of LATAM, but perhaps a conversion of other Airbus orders?

I would speculate more leasing companies at Farnborough, but that is just a hunch. The tour stopped in Panama, but I'm not sure about COPA. I can hope, but I don't know enough to add them to the list. Also a mention of a trip to Argentina; again I just don't know enough to add an airline to the list.
https://www.aviacionline.com/2022/04/ch ... ves-fidae/


Lightsaber

The 10 by Air Canada have already been re-committed. Recall Air Canada orginally order 45 A220-300 and then indicated they cancelled 12 during the height of the pandemic. However, Airbus never showed them off the O&D list. In 4Q2021, Air Canada first re-committed to 2 of the 12 and then within the last annual report, it was reported that Air Canada has re-committedd to all 12.
https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/a ... 59705.html
"In 2021, Air Canada elected to proceed with the purchase of an additional 12 Airbus A220-300 aircraft, six being delivered in 2024 and six in 2025. These 12 aircraft are those that Air Canada had previously determined it would no longer be purchasing under an amendment to the purchase agreement concluded with Airbus in November 2020. As of December 31, 2021, Air Canada had 27 Airbus A220-300 in its operating fleet."

yyztpa2 wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

I haven't updated the list in a bit. I'm sad I haven't seen MOUs finalized (Green Africa). I removed one airline (the "new" Ukrainian airline) and added Aeromexico and LATAM from the current sales campaign. There might be a few more to add due to the current sales campaign.


Realized campaigns in 2022, qty 72 aircraft
1. Azorra (20 A223, 2 two twenty)
2. Aviation Capital (20 A220)
3. JetBlue (30 A223 in addition to already 70 on order, so now a hundred)

Active campaigns
1.Air Burkina
2. Possible top off order for 10 by AirCanada
3. Possible top off by AirFrance, dependent upon A225 launch?
4. Croatia Airways (possibly 2 others in Croatia, I don't know if they were serious or just kicking tires)
5. Green Africa (at MOU for 50 per prior discussion in thread)
6. Israir
7. LOT (possibly a large order)
8. SAS (possibly a large order)
9. Uganda Airways
10. LH group for A319 replacement and regional replacement (new order, possibly a large order)

11. Luxair (replace Q400 and 73G, desire for A225), possibly a large order
New:
--------------------------------------------------------
12. AeroMexico, possibly a large order (see link below)
13. LATAM (per link below a possibility)? I know iffy, but with so many iffy possibilities, I chose LATAM as the most likely and added them to the list.


One I'm judging should be removed from the list:
* A new Ukraine airline MOU for 6, but this is unlikely for a few years I think...
https://www.scramble.nl/civil-news/ukra ... al-airline


Not much change in a month.

Warning, open in an incognito tab (I always have to end up purging the cookies after opening simpleflying links in a normal tab).
https://simpleflying.com/airbus-a220-ma ... h-america/

The above link includes Azul which... I don't believe so I chose not to add it to the list (they already have the E2 on order). I'm going to be skeptical of LATAM, but perhaps a conversion of other Airbus orders?

I would speculate more leasing companies at Farnborough, but that is just a hunch. The tour stopped in Panama, but I'm not sure about COPA. I can hope, but I don't know enough to add them to the list. Also a mention of a trip to Argentina; again I just don't know enough to add an airline to the list.
https://www.aviacionline.com/2022/04/ch ... ves-fidae/


Lightsaber

The 10 by Air Canada have already been re-committed. Recall Air Canada orginally order 45 A220-300 and then indicated they cancelled 12 during the height of the pandemic. However, Airbus never showed them off the O&D list. In 4Q2021, Air Canada first re-committed to 2 of the 12 and then within the last annual report, it was reported that Air Canada has re-committedd to all 12.
https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/a ... 59705.html
"In 2021, Air Canada elected to proceed with the purchase of an additional 12 Airbus A220-300 aircraft, six being delivered in 2024 and six in 2025. These 12 aircraft are those that Air Canada had previously determined it would no longer be purchasing under an amendment to the purchase agreement concluded with Airbus in November 2020. As of December 31, 2021, Air Canada had 27 Airbus A220-300 in its operating fleet."

Since they were never officially removed as far as I know, I just ignored that drama. It is pretty common with aircraft orders. Years of patience seems to be required.

I'm more interested if Airbus will gain any firm South American or Africa orders this year for the A220. Soon enough airlines will opperate the type which should increase leasing company interest (less risk).

Lightsaber

lightsaber wrote:

yyztpa2 wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

I haven't updated the list in a bit. I'm sad I haven't seen MOUs finalized (Green Africa). I removed one airline (the "new" Ukrainian airline) and added Aeromexico and LATAM from the current sales campaign. There might be a few more to add due to the current sales campaign.


Realized campaigns in 2022, qty 72 aircraft
1. Azorra (20 A223, 2 two twenty)
2. Aviation Capital (20 A220)
3. JetBlue (30 A223 in addition to already 70 on order, so now a hundred)

Active campaigns
1.Air Burkina
2. Possible top off order for 10 by AirCanada
3. Possible top off by AirFrance, dependent upon A225 launch?
4. Croatia Airways (possibly 2 others in Croatia, I don't know if they were serious or just kicking tires)
5. Green Africa (at MOU for 50 per prior discussion in thread)
6. Israir
7. LOT (possibly a large order)
8. SAS (possibly a large order)
9. Uganda Airways
10. LH group for A319 replacement and regional replacement (new order, possibly a large order)

11. Luxair (replace Q400 and 73G, desire for A225), possibly a large order
New:
--------------------------------------------------------
12. AeroMexico, possibly a large order (see link below)
13. LATAM (per link below a possibility)? I know iffy, but with so many iffy possibilities, I chose LATAM as the most likely and added them to the list.


One I'm judging should be removed from the list:
* A new Ukraine airline MOU for 6, but this is unlikely for a few years I think...
https://www.scramble.nl/civil-news/ukra ... al-airline


Not much change in a month.

Warning, open in an incognito tab (I always have to end up purging the cookies after opening simpleflying links in a normal tab).
https://simpleflying.com/airbus-a220-ma ... h-america/

The above link includes Azul which... I don't believe so I chose not to add it to the list (they already have the E2 on order). I'm going to be skeptical of LATAM, but perhaps a conversion of other Airbus orders?

I would speculate more leasing companies at Farnborough, but that is just a hunch. The tour stopped in Panama, but I'm not sure about COPA. I can hope, but I don't know enough to add them to the list. Also a mention of a trip to Argentina; again I just don't know enough to add an airline to the list.
https://www.aviacionline.com/2022/04/ch ... ves-fidae/


Lightsaber

The 10 by Air Canada have already been re-committed. Recall Air Canada orginally order 45 A220-300 and then indicated they cancelled 12 during the height of the pandemic. However, Airbus never showed them off the O&D list. In 4Q2021, Air Canada first re-committed to 2 of the 12 and then within the last annual report, it was reported that Air Canada has re-committedd to all 12.
https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/a ... 59705.html
"In 2021, Air Canada elected to proceed with the purchase of an additional 12 Airbus A220-300 aircraft, six being delivered in 2024 and six in 2025. These 12 aircraft are those that Air Canada had previously determined it would no longer be purchasing under an amendment to the purchase agreement concluded with Airbus in November 2020. As of December 31, 2021, Air Canada had 27 Airbus A220-300 in its operating fleet."

Since they were never officially removed as far as I know, I just ignored that drama. It is pretty common with aircraft orders. Years of patience seems to be required.

I'm more interested if Airbus will gain any firm South American or Africa orders this year for the A220. Soon enough airlines will opperate the type which should increase leasing company interest (less risk).

Lightsaber

I am actually more interested to see if it will be ordered by the Chinese, Indian, Japanese and Indonesian Airlines. The demand from that region seems non existent for the A220…

lightsaber wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

Luxair could be very interesting. I'm doubting an A225 launch, but it would guarantee all Airbus...

AeroMexico was shown the A220 as part of the sales campaign flight.

https://www.aviacionline.com/2022/04/ai ... -customer/

Personally, I think the AeroMexico order could go either way. It will be a very interesting order as it would give either program momentum.

That was an undisclosed order in 2021 that was made official in September 2021:
https://onemileatatime.com/news/breeze- ... %20a%20lag.

This isn’t a new order, but rather it’s just now being disclosed. This spring Airbus revealed that there was an undisclosed order for 20 Airbus A220s. As it turns out, Breeze was the airline behind that order. The airline sure is growing aggressively, as the A220 order total was increased from 60 to 80 planes before operations were even launched.

I'm sure Breeze will order more, but that top off, I would expect, is a while away.

SAS and LH group are the two big orders I hope to see at Farnborough. I also really hope the Green Airways order is finalized (too many MOUs in this industry are never finalized). My hunch is LOT will slide into 2023 due to current events.

Lightsaber

Why would you list the Jetblue top off order but not the Breeze? It shouldn’t matter that the Breeze order was made as undisclosed initially.

JonesNL wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

yyztpa2 wrote:

The 10 by Air Canada have already been re-committed. Recall Air Canada orginally order 45 A220-300 and then indicated they cancelled 12 during the height of the pandemic. However, Airbus never showed them off the O&D list. In 4Q2021, Air Canada first re-committed to 2 of the 12 and then within the last annual report, it was reported that Air Canada has re-committedd to all 12.
https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/a ... 59705.html
"In 2021, Air Canada elected to proceed with the purchase of an additional 12 Airbus A220-300 aircraft, six being delivered in 2024 and six in 2025. These 12 aircraft are those that Air Canada had previously determined it would no longer be purchasing under an amendment to the purchase agreement concluded with Airbus in November 2020. As of December 31, 2021, Air Canada had 27 Airbus A220-300 in its operating fleet."

Since they were never officially removed as far as I know, I just ignored that drama. It is pretty common with aircraft orders. Years of patience seems to be required.

I'm more interested if Airbus will gain any firm South American or Africa orders this year for the A220. Soon enough airlines will opperate the type which should increase leasing company interest (less risk).

Lightsaber

I am actually more interested to see if it will be ordered by the Chinese, Indian, Japanese and Indonesian Airlines. The demand from that region seems non existent for the A220…

There's a lot of domestic wide body flights in those markets due to heavy populations. I'd say we could see the A220 there eventually but there's likely less of a demand for a 140 seater than say an A321NEO to 787 sized plane.

flightsimer wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

Luxair could be very interesting. I'm doubting an A225 launch, but it would guarantee all Airbus...

AeroMexico was shown the A220 as part of the sales campaign flight.

https://www.aviacionline.com/2022/04/ai ... -customer/

Personally, I think the AeroMexico order could go either way. It will be a very interesting order as it would give either program momentum.

That was an undisclosed order in 2021 that was made official in September 2021:
https://onemileatatime.com/news/breeze- ... %20a%20lag.

This isn’t a new order, but rather it’s just now being disclosed. This spring Airbus revealed that there was an undisclosed order for 20 Airbus A220s. As it turns out, Breeze was the airline behind that order. The airline sure is growing aggressively, as the A220 order total was increased from 60 to 80 planes before operations were even launched.

I'm sure Breeze will order more, but that top off, I would expect, is a while away.

SAS and LH group are the two big orders I hope to see at Farnborough. I also really hope the Green Airways order is finalized (too many MOUs in this industry are never finalized). My hunch is LOT will slide into 2023 due to current events.

Lightsaber

Why would you list the Jetblue top off order but not the Breeze? It shouldn’t matter that the Breeze order was made as undisclosed initially.

My list is 2022. Breeze was finalized in Spring 2021 and made public in September 2021. It is not a 2022 order. They have, not yet, expanded on the order for 80 A220.

JetBlue finalized their order in 2022. That is all. The 2021 orders were discussed in last year's thread and no prior orders make my sales campaign list for this year.

Some orders do linger for years though.

I expect LH, AF, and hopefully SAS and Green Africa orders. That will be enough.

JonesNL wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

yyztpa2 wrote:

The 10 by Air Canada have already been re-committed. Recall Air Canada orginally order 45 A220-300 and then indicated they cancelled 12 during the height of the pandemic. However, Airbus never showed them off the O&D list. In 4Q2021, Air Canada first re-committed to 2 of the 12 and then within the last annual report, it was reported that Air Canada has re-committedd to all 12.
https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/a ... 59705.html
"In 2021, Air Canada elected to proceed with the purchase of an additional 12 Airbus A220-300 aircraft, six being delivered in 2024 and six in 2025. These 12 aircraft are those that Air Canada had previously determined it would no longer be purchasing under an amendment to the purchase agreement concluded with Airbus in November 2020. As of December 31, 2021, Air Canada had 27 Airbus A220-300 in its operating fleet."

Since they were never officially removed as far as I know, I just ignored that drama. It is pretty common with aircraft orders. Years of patience seems to be required.

I'm more interested if Airbus will gain any firm South American or Africa orders this year for the A220. Soon enough airlines will opperate the type which should increase leasing company interest (less risk).

Lightsaber

I am actually more interested to see if it will be ordered by the Chinese, Indian, Japanese and Indonesian Airlines. The demand from that region seems non existent for the A220…

I don't know about Chinese and Indian but Japanese could happen once the space jet gets announced its dead and Mitsubishi files for either Chapter 7 or 11. thats 15 orders for ANA and 32 for JAL.

lostsound wrote:

JonesNL wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

Since they were never officially removed as far as I know, I just ignored that drama. It is pretty common with aircraft orders. Years of patience seems to be required.

I'm more interested if Airbus will gain any firm South American or Africa orders this year for the A220. Soon enough airlines will opperate the type which should increase leasing company interest (less risk).

Lightsaber

I am actually more interested to see if it will be ordered by the Chinese, Indian, Japanese and Indonesian Airlines. The demand from that region seems non existent for the A220…

There's a lot of domestic wide body flights in those markets due to heavy populations. I'd say we could see the A220 there eventually but there's likely less of a demand for a 140 seater than say an A321NEO to 787 sized plane.

While I agree, there are still lots of small jets that are operating in those regions that could be replaced by the A220…

I'm curious if Airbus will ever launch an Airspace interior for the A220 to relate the product even further to the Airbus family. I can't really think of what that might entail as the A220 already has a contemporary interior but perhaps they could add the new ceiling graphics from the A32X and A33X families, increase the bin size even more (would have to be incrementally), etc. Possibly when they introduce the -500? I'm betting we will see A220s crossing the Atlantic regularly eventually. Perhaps they'd consider it with an LR/XLR model?

JonesNL wrote:

lostsound wrote:

JonesNL wrote:

I am actually more interested to see if it will be ordered by the Chinese, Indian, Japanese and Indonesian Airlines. The demand from that region seems non existent for the A220…

There's a lot of domestic wide body flights in those markets due to heavy populations. I'd say we could see the A220 there eventually but there's likely less of a demand for a 140 seater than say an A321NEO to 787 sized plane.

While I agree, there are still lots of small jets that are operating in those regions that could be replaced by the A220…

Oh definitely. They just likely aren't the priority at first as demand ramps back up.

lostsound wrote:

I'm betting we will see A220s crossing the Atlantic regularly eventually. Perhaps they'd consider it with an LR/XLR model?

I would not hold my breath on the A220 being a TATL regular for most operators. The A319ceo and 73G were not with similar or more range. And without major engineering effort (which Airbus probably wouldn’t do because of existence of A320neo family that can handle long range narrow body flights) the A225 will have less range than the A223.

Polot wrote:

lostsound wrote:

I'm betting we will see A220s crossing the Atlantic regularly eventually. Perhaps they'd consider it with an LR/XLR model?

I would not hold my breath on the A220 being a TATL regular for most operators. The A319ceo and 73G were not with similar or more range. And without major engineering effort (which Airbus probably wouldn’t do because of existence of A320neo family that can handle long range narrow body flights) the A225 will have less range than the A223.

By regularly I meant daily. While not at most carriers, I think there's lots of potential for Air Canada to use theirs YYT/YHZ to the UK or even France with an LR model. Similarly, JetBlue could eventually see fit to use some for BOS too smaller, perhaps less tapped UK cities. I mostly bring an LR model up because Breeze said they'd be interested in an LR to use for TATL.

lightsaber wrote:

flightsimer wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

That was an undisclosed order in 2021 that was made official in September 2021:
https://onemileatatime.com/news/breeze- ... %20a%20lag.

This isn’t a new order, but rather it’s just now being disclosed. This spring Airbus revealed that there was an undisclosed order for 20 Airbus A220s. As it turns out, Breeze was the airline behind that order. The airline sure is growing aggressively, as the A220 order total was increased from 60 to 80 planes before operations were even launched.


I'm sure Breeze will order more, but that top off, I would expect, is a while away.

SAS and LH group are the two big orders I hope to see at Farnborough. I also really hope the Green Airways order is finalized (too many MOUs in this industry are never finalized). My hunch is LOT will slide into 2023 due to current events.

Lightsaber

Why would you list the Jetblue top off order but not the Breeze? It shouldn’t matter that the Breeze order was made as undisclosed initially.

My list is 2022. Breeze was finalized in Spring 2021 and made public in September 2021. It is not a 2022 order. They have, not yet, expanded on the order for 80 A220.

JetBlue finalized their order in 2022. That is all. The 2021 orders were discussed in last year's thread and no prior orders make my sales campaign list for this year.

Some orders do linger for years though.

I expect LH, AF, and hopefully SAS and Green Africa orders. That will be enough.

Congo Airways Considering the Airbus A220 Over Embraer E2 to Expand its Fleet

https://airspace-africa.com/2022/04/11/congo-airways-considering-the-airbus-a220-over-embraer-e2-to-expand-its-fleet/

A small but interesting information of an Airbus interview in Spanish according the Latin America sales tour (so translated by Google translator).
Source in Spanish: https://aeromarket.com.ar/noticias/este-avion-es-ideal-para-america-latina/

Swiss has had a very good experience that in one way or another is perceived by the market. We must bear in mind that this is a developing market, we are still dealing with a very new aircraft, although we already have interesting fleets both in Europe and the United States;now we are in full growth in markets such as Africa, Asia and we strongly believe that this aircraft is ideal for Latin America, that is why we wanted to come to this area to demonstrate the A220 on site to the press and companies.For us, the global market for this product, which is what we are looking at, would be about 7,000 aircraft for the next 20 years.

>now we are in full growth in markets such as Africa, Asia
Seems there is something going on in on-going sales discussions for Asia. So seems something will come soon
>lobal market for this product, which is what we are looking at, would be about 7,000 aircraft for the next 20 years.
Till now, Airbus expectations were official 4000 for the A220 and around 8000 in total for the whole segment, covered by the A220 (of which Airbus wanted to get half, so the named 4000 with the A220). So the forecast seems to have raised by 3.000 for the A220 to 7000.
I do not see, that the forecast for the A220 segment of 8000 has grown so much, that they would get 7000, and I don not believe, that even Airbus expects, to get 87.5 % of the whole segment.
So the A220 must "expand" the segemnt......so the A220-500.

"Reading between the lines", it is so hard to avoid to give more information, as you are allowed to give.

And just remind: The whole global sales expectations by Boeing and Airbus in the next 20 years is something around 40.000 to 44000 new build jets by all producers.
Expectations of 7000 of 40000 /44000 globlally produced jets (alone for the A220 in next 20 years) is an extremely huge marketshare for the A220. This is something around 17%.

T4thH,
Thank you for the quotes and information on Congo Airways. Small orders add up and have a tendency to have follow up orders.

I can see the A220 replacing more than a few turboprop aircraft.

oldJoe wrote:

Sri Lankan Airlines has published a tender for leasing up to 42 aircraft in four parts
1 - up to eleven A32x Ceo or A32x Neo series
2 - up to ten A330-200 or A330-300
3 - up to eleven A220-100, A220-300 or E190-E2, E195-E2
4 - up to ten A330-800, A330-900, A350-900 or B787-9, B787-10
Interesting times for leasing companies and perhaps ( hopefully ) a new operator of the A220
source in German only :
https://www.aerotelegraph.com/sri-lankan-airlines-sucht-42-flugzeuge-darunter-airbus-a330-neo-a220-dreamliner-oder-embraer-e2

Sri Lankan is an interesting potential customer. Hopefully another new A220 operator!

T4thH wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

flightsimer wrote:

Why would you list the Jetblue top off order but not the Breeze? It shouldn’t matter that the Breeze order was made as undisclosed initially.

My list is 2022. Breeze was finalized in Spring 2021 and made public in September 2021. It is not a 2022 order. They have, not yet, expanded on the order for 80 A220.

JetBlue finalized their order in 2022. That is all. The 2021 orders were discussed in last year's thread and no prior orders make my sales campaign list for this year.

Some orders do linger for years though.

I expect LH, AF, and hopefully SAS and Green Africa orders. That will be enough.

Congo Airways Considering the Airbus A220 Over Embraer E2 to Expand its Fleet

https://airspace-africa.com/2022/04/11/congo-airways-considering-the-airbus-a220-over-embraer-e2-to-expand-its-fleet/

A small but interesting information of an Airbus interview in Spanish according the Latin America sales tour (so translated by Google translator).
Source in Spanish: https://aeromarket.com.ar/noticias/este-avion-es-ideal-para-america-latina/

Swiss has had a very good experience that in one way or another is perceived by the market. We must bear in mind that this is a developing market, we are still dealing with a very new aircraft, although we already have interesting fleets both in Europe and the United States;now we are in full growth in markets such as Africa, Asia and we strongly believe that this aircraft is ideal for Latin America, that is why we wanted to come to this area to demonstrate the A220 on site to the press and companies.For us, the global market for this product, which is what we are looking at, would be about 7,000 aircraft for the next 20 years.

>now we are in full growth in markets such as Africa, Asia
Seems there is something going on in on-going sales discussions for Asia. So seems something will come soon
>lobal market for this product, which is what we are looking at, would be about 7,000 aircraft for the next 20 years.
Till now, Airbus expectations were official 4000 for the A220 and around 8000 in total for the whole segment, covered by the A220 (of which Airbus wanted to get half, so the named 4000 with the A220). So the forecast seems to have raised by 3.000 for the A220 to 7000.
I do not see, that the forecast for the A220 segment of 8000 has grown so much, that they would get 7000, and I don not believe, that even Airbus expects, to get 87.5 % of the whole segment.
So the A220 must "expand" the segemnt......so the A220-500.

"Reading between the lines", it is so hard to avoid to give more information, as you are allowed to give.

And just remind: The whole global sales expectations by Boeing and Airbus in the next 20 years is something around 40.000 to 44000 new build jets by all producers.
Expectations of 7000 of 40000 /44000 globlally produced jets (alone for the A220 in next 20 years) is an extremely huge marketshare for the A220. This is something around 17%.

7000 for 20 years would mean 350 deliveries per year. They are aiming at 150 a year at the moment and I see them pushing towards 200. That is way to low for that figure to be achieved. I would guess the original number of 8000 for the whole segment went down to 7000…

lightsaber wrote:

T4thH,
Thank you for the quotes and information on Congo Airways. Small orders add up and have a tendency to have follow up orders.

I can see the A220 replacing more than a few turboprop aircraft.

oldJoe wrote:

Sri Lankan Airlines has published a tender for leasing up to 42 aircraft in four parts
1 - up to eleven A32x Ceo or A32x Neo series
2 - up to ten A330-200 or A330-300
3 - up to eleven A220-100, A220-300 or E190-E2, E195-E2
4 - up to ten A330-800, A330-900, A350-900 or B787-9, B787-10
Interesting times for leasing companies and perhaps ( hopefully ) a new operator of the A220
source in German only :
https://www.aerotelegraph.com/sri-lankan-airlines-sucht-42-flugzeuge-darunter-airbus-a330-neo-a220-dreamliner-oder-embraer-e2

Sri Lankan is an interesting potential customer. Hopefully another new A220 operator!

Do you have already GOL on your listing?

JonesNL wrote:

T4thH wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

My list is 2022. Breeze was finalized in Spring 2021 and made public in September 2021. It is not a 2022 order. They have, not yet, expanded on the order for 80 A220.

JetBlue finalized their order in 2022. That is all. The 2021 orders were discussed in last year's thread and no prior orders make my sales campaign list for this year.

Some orders do linger for years though.

I expect LH, AF, and hopefully SAS and Green Africa orders. That will be enough.

Congo Airways Considering the Airbus A220 Over Embraer E2 to Expand its Fleet

https://airspace-africa.com/2022/04/11/congo-airways-considering-the-airbus-a220-over-embraer-e2-to-expand-its-fleet/

A small but interesting information of an Airbus interview in Spanish according the Latin America sales tour (so translated by Google translator).
Source in Spanish: https://aeromarket.com.ar/noticias/este-avion-es-ideal-para-america-latina/

Swiss has had a very good experience that in one way or another is perceived by the market. We must bear in mind that this is a developing market, we are still dealing with a very new aircraft, although we already have interesting fleets both in Europe and the United States;now we are in full growth in markets such as Africa, Asia and we strongly believe that this aircraft is ideal for Latin America, that is why we wanted to come to this area to demonstrate the A220 on site to the press and companies.For us, the global market for this product, which is what we are looking at, would be about 7,000 aircraft for the next 20 years.

>now we are in full growth in markets such as Africa, Asia
Seems there is something going on in on-going sales discussions for Asia. So seems something will come soon
>lobal market for this product, which is what we are looking at, would be about 7,000 aircraft for the next 20 years.
Till now, Airbus expectations were official 4000 for the A220 and around 8000 in total for the whole segment, covered by the A220 (of which Airbus wanted to get half, so the named 4000 with the A220). So the forecast seems to have raised by 3.000 for the A220 to 7000.
I do not see, that the forecast for the A220 segment of 8000 has grown so much, that they would get 7000, and I don not believe, that even Airbus expects, to get 87.5 % of the whole segment.
So the A220 must "expand" the segemnt......so the A220-500.

"Reading between the lines", it is so hard to avoid to give more information, as you are allowed to give.

And just remind: The whole global sales expectations by Boeing and Airbus in the next 20 years is something around 40.000 to 44000 new build jets by all producers.
Expectations of 7000 of 40000 /44000 globlally produced jets (alone for the A220 in next 20 years) is an extremely huge marketshare for the A220. This is something around 17%.

7000 for 20 years would mean 350 deliveries per year. They are aiming at 150 a year at the moment and I see them pushing towards 200. That is way to low for that figure to be achieved. I would guess the original number of 8000 for the whole segment went down to 7000…

I would argue Airbus is studying the business case to further increase production. We can speculate what segment, but if orders start rolling in, why wouldn't Airbus further expand production? I could see, with an A225, production going to triple the current plan. Mirabel certainly has the land to expand as does Spirit, Pratt, and other major vendors.

Heck, Spirit would love to do more stuffing, so expanding production to 240/year is a non-issue.

Lightsaber

lightsaber wrote:

JonesNL wrote:

T4thH wrote:

https://airspace-africa.com/2022/04/11/congo-airways-considering-the-airbus-a220-over-embraer-e2-to-expand-its-fleet/

A small but interesting information of an Airbus interview in Spanish according the Latin America sales tour (so translated by Google translator).
Source in Spanish: https://aeromarket.com.ar/noticias/este-avion-es-ideal-para-america-latina/

>now we are in full growth in markets such as Africa, Asia
Seems there is something going on in on-going sales discussions for Asia. So seems something will come soon
>lobal market for this product, which is what we are looking at, would be about 7,000 aircraft for the next 20 years.
Till now, Airbus expectations were official 4000 for the A220 and around 8000 in total for the whole segment, covered by the A220 (of which Airbus wanted to get half, so the named 4000 with the A220). So the forecast seems to have raised by 3.000 for the A220 to 7000.
I do not see, that the forecast for the A220 segment of 8000 has grown so much, that they would get 7000, and I don not believe, that even Airbus expects, to get 87.5 % of the whole segment.
So the A220 must "expand" the segemnt......so the A220-500.

"Reading between the lines", it is so hard to avoid to give more information, as you are allowed to give.

And just remind: The whole global sales expectations by Boeing and Airbus in the next 20 years is something around 40.000 to 44000 new build jets by all producers.
Expectations of 7000 of 40000 /44000 globlally produced jets (alone for the A220 in next 20 years) is an extremely huge marketshare for the A220. This is something around 17%.

7000 for 20 years would mean 350 deliveries per year. They are aiming at 150 a year at the moment and I see them pushing towards 200. That is way to low for that figure to be achieved. I would guess the original number of 8000 for the whole segment went down to 7000…

I would argue Airbus is studying the business case to further increase production. We can speculate what segment, but if orders start rolling in, why wouldn't Airbus further expand production? I could see, with an A225, production going to triple the current plan. Mirabel certainly has the land to expand as does Spirit, Pratt, and other major vendors.

Heck, Spirit would love to do more stuffing, so expanding production to 240/year is a non-issue.

Lightsaber

The A225 blurs the discussion as it creeps into the A320 segment, which is supposedly much larger than 7-8000 units in coming 20 years. Only A221 and 3 I don’t see them selling the amount to deliver 7000 units in 20 years. With the A225 I can see them selling much more than 7000.

But I am not sure expanding to 240/year is a non-issue. Getting from 40 to 140/year will have taken them almost a decade. From 140 to 240/year is probably another 5 years before it can be achieved. The discussed 350/year would be another 5 years towards 2035…

lightsaber wrote:

Heck, Spirit would love to do more stuffing, so expanding production to 240/year is a non-issue.

Lightsaber

Rate 15 is a minimum for the program to have long term success, rate 20 (240/year) would be quite healthy for the program. Until the recent huge jumps in backlog over the last decade +, optimum backlog was around 4 years production. It meant that customers that really needed planes could get the initial units of an order within a couple years then regular deliveries over several years matching up with crew training etc.

JonesNL wrote:

The A225 blurs the discussion as it creeps into the A320 segment, which is supposedly much larger than 7-8000 units in coming 20 years. Only A221 and 3 I don’t see them selling the amount to deliver 7000 units in 20 years. With the A225 I can see them selling much more than 7000.

But I am not sure expanding to 240/year is a non-issue. Getting from 40 to 140/year will have taken them almost a decade. From 140 to 240/year is probably another 5 years before it can be achieved. The discussed 350/year would be another 5 years towards 2035…

And this is the issue for both Boeing and Airbus when they finally decide to replace their current single aisle productions lines. The switch over to a new high volume production line/supply chain is enormously challenging. At best it will take many years - at worst it could cause huge damage to the companies if they get it wrong.

Why do we think they are so wedded to their current processes. Heck we saw how much impact even a smallish change to the A320 process with the ACF version caused to Airbus.

lightsaber wrote:

oldJoe wrote:

Sri Lankan Airlines has published a tender for leasing up to 42 aircraft in four parts
1 - up to eleven A32x Ceo or A32x Neo series
2 - up to ten A330-200 or A330-300
3 - up to eleven A220-100, A220-300 or E190-E2, E195-E2
4 - up to ten A330-800, A330-900, A350-900 or B787-9, B787-10
Interesting times for leasing companies and perhaps ( hopefully ) a new operator of the A220
source in German only :
https://www.aerotelegraph.com/sri-lankan-airlines-sucht-42-flugzeuge-darunter-airbus-a330-neo-a220-dreamliner-oder-embraer-e2

Sri Lankan is an interesting potential customer. Hopefully another new A220 operator!

Sri Lanka as a country is bankrupt now, thanks to its present corrupt Rajapaksa-Clan government. I doubt Sri Lankan, as a government owned airline will find any creditors or lessors to provide them with any new aircraft

More info in this Reuters article https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/plan-by-srilankan-airlines-lease-21-aircraft-draws-criticism-2022-04-15/

T4thH wrote:

[Congo Airways Considering the Airbus A220 Over Embraer E2 to Expand its Fleet
https://airspace-africa.com/2022/04/11/congo-airways-considering-the-airbus-a220-over-embraer-e2-to-expand-its-fleet/

They have 2 190-E2s at the Embraer factory since 2020 ready to be delivered and they have never secured the financing credit from the banks or leasing institutions...

JayinKitsap wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

Heck, Spirit would love to do more stuffing, so expanding production to 240/year is a non-issue.

Lightsaber

Rate 15 is a minimum for the program to have long term success, rate 20 (240/year) would be quite healthy for the program. Until the recent huge jumps in backlog over the last decade +, optimum backlog was around 4 years production. It meant that customers that really needed planes could get the initial units of an order within a couple years then regular deliveries over several years matching up with crew training etc.

A good summary. At prior order rate, I agree with 4 years of backlog. Now Airbus should aim for 5 or 6, years, increasing production with demand. Hopefully we hear of a rate boost at Farnborough (still within the rate 15).

Lightsaber

is this so far the correct list of possible A220-500 customers?

Air France
Breeze airways
Qantas
Luxair
Airbaltic

how about this for a possible customers list

United A319/20 and 73G replacement (mostly A223's)
Delta A319/20 and 738 replacement
maybe even JetBlue if they go through with the NK merger.

Cardude2 wrote:

is this so far the correct list of possible A220-500 customers?

Air France
Breeze airways
Qantas
Luxair
Airbaltic

how about this for a possible customers list

United A319/20 and 73G replacement (mostly A223's)
Delta A319/20 and 738 replacement
maybe even JetBlue if they go through with the NK merger.

I would see any airline operating a320 737...

Kikko19 wrote:

Cardude2 wrote:

is this so far the correct list of possible A220-500 customers?

Air France
Breeze airways
Qantas
Luxair
Airbaltic

how about this for a possible customers list

United A319/20 and 73G replacement (mostly A223's)
Delta A319/20 and 738 replacement
maybe even JetBlue if they go through with the NK merger.

I would see any airline operating a320 737...

I agree, the replacement list is too short. It will depend on the range. If TCON is possible, then every US airline operating the A220 will buy them and I would suspect that would be near universal. It will become the volume segment. Before launching, Airbus must become ready to build all A321 (it won't happen necessarily, but the transition will be quick). Now, that would be a profit center and the A320 would of course still sell, but not in the numbers of today.

The A225 would finally compete against the -8 MAX, albeit only on perhaps 90% of the routes due to range limitations. However, the cost per flight savings would be just too attractive and this wouldn't just be A320 to A220, it would be Airbus gaining perhaps 10% to 15% more market share *iff* they ramp up the rate of production.

That said, I expect no A225 in 2022. The time to announce just isn't here yet. Probably not in 2023 (best to do the first year or two on IRAD quietly).

That said, there are opportunities in 2022 for Farnborough. I very much anticipate orders at the airshow this year.

Lightsaber

lightsaber wrote:

Kikko19 wrote:

Cardude2 wrote:

is this so far the correct list of possible A220-500 customers?

Air France
Breeze airways
Qantas
Luxair
Airbaltic

how about this for a possible customers list

United A319/20 and 73G replacement (mostly A223's)
Delta A319/20 and 738 replacement
maybe even JetBlue if they go through with the NK merger.

I would see any airline operating a320 737...

That said, there are opportunities in 2022 for Farnborough. I very much anticipate orders at the airshow this year.

Lightsaber

I wonder if there are orders placed at Farnborough 2022 for existing models, that some may only be placeholders to hold production slots after 2025 for conversions to the A225. It's almost certain that Airbus will eventually launch the A225, not a matter of if, but when.

Kikko19 wrote:

Cardude2 wrote:

is this so far the correct list of possible A220-500 customers?

Air France
Breeze airways
Qantas
Luxair
Airbaltic

how about this for a possible customers list

United A319/20 and 73G replacement (mostly A223's)
Delta A319/20 and 738 replacement
maybe even JetBlue if they go through with the NK merger.

I would see any airline operating a320 737...

If they are keeping good-sized fleet of 737 or A32x, they'll need to be operating A220-100s or -300s, too. Carriers won't add a type beyond 737 or A32x just for the 225. And really, who would be buying 75+ A225s (generally, minimum economic fleet size) that doesn't plan on MAX or A32x?

MIflyer12 wrote:

Kikko19 wrote:

Cardude2 wrote:

is this so far the correct list of possible A220-500 customers?

Air France
Breeze airways
Qantas
Luxair
Airbaltic

how about this for a possible customers list

United A319/20 and 73G replacement (mostly A223's)
Delta A319/20 and 738 replacement
maybe even JetBlue if they go through with the NK merger.

I would see any airline operating a320 737...

And really, who would be buying 75+ A225s (generally, minimum economic fleet size) that doesn't plan on MAX or A32x?

I was under the impression that minimum fleet size was between 20-25 to be viable?

9252fly wrote:

MIflyer12 wrote:

Kikko19 wrote:

I would see any airline operating a320 737...

And really, who would be buying 75+ A225s (generally, minimum economic fleet size) that doesn't plan on MAX or A32x?

I was under the impression that minimum fleet size was between 20-25 to be viable?

What works for the US majors and similarly scaled global carriers doesn't apply for the multitude of other airlines. I'm sure there are plenty of markets for fleet sizes smaller than 25, let alone 75.

MIflyer12 wrote:

If they are keeping good-sized fleet of 737 or A32x, they'll need to be operating A220-100s or -300s, too. Carriers won't add a type beyond 737 or A32x just for the 225. And really, who would be buying 75+ A225s (generally, minimum economic fleet size) that doesn't plan on MAX or A32x?

Sorry that's not what I meant. Delta has 95 (some delivered, some on order) A220's (mix of the 100 and 300 variant) and UA would buy them alongside a plethra of A223's

the Jetblue idea I'm thinking about now makes no sense IF they go through with the NK merger

https://simpleflying.com/congo-airways- ... mbraer-e2/ (open in incognito)

Congo Airways Reportedly Looking To Ditch The Embraer E2 For The Airbus A220

Cardude2 wrote:

https://simpleflying.com/congo-airways-airbus-a220-instead-of-embraer-e2/ (open in incognito)

Congo Airways Reportedly Looking To Ditch The Embraer E2 For The Airbus A220

From the source you cited above:

"Furthermore, Newsaero reports that the Congolese government has already paid the first $14 million owed to Embraer for the aircraft.
Despite this, its national airline may now be preparing to shelve the deal in favor of the Airbus A220.
Additionally, ch-aviation also reported last month that Congo Airways had chosen not to extend the leases on its E190s borrowed from Kenya Airways."


They have 2 190-E2s at the Embraer factory since 2020 ready to be delivered and they have never secured the financing credit from the banks or leasing institutions...

EMBSPBR wrote:

Cardude2 wrote:

https://simpleflying.com/congo-airways-airbus-a220-instead-of-embraer-e2/ (open in incognito)

Congo Airways Reportedly Looking To Ditch The Embraer E2 For The Airbus A220

From the source you cited above:

"Furthermore, Newsaero reports that the Congolese government has already paid the first $14 million owed to Embraer for the aircraft.
Despite this, its national airline may now be preparing to shelve the deal in favor of the Airbus A220.
Additionally, ch-aviation also reported last month that Congo Airways had chosen not to extend the leases on its E190s borrowed from Kenya Airways."


They have 2 190-E2s at the Embraer factory since 2020 ready to be delivered and they have never secured the financing credit from the banks or leasing institutions...

The truth is that for some reason Congo Airways ex-CEO is now exiled in Paris and there is a new CEO in place. And as things works in DRC, this new guy wants to do new deals on his own.

Qantas has firmed their order for twenty A220:
https://www.stattimes.com/amp/aviation/ ... er-1345263

We're approaching the economy of scale in terms of airlines opperating and number of A220 in service to help make sales easier. We are, in my opinion, not yet at a broad MRO network nor with broad crew training options. Soon that will happen.

In my opinion the most skeptical sales campaign is with SAS. If they order, that will be only because they reviewed reliability data and determined the A220 is good to go.

This could be a very exciting Farnborough.

Lightsaber

Airbus A220 currently doing two demo tours: one in Asia Pacific (Sydney/Singapore/Vietnam/Tokyo) with airBaltic aircraft,
and the other recently in South America with Swiss.

The airBaltic's first arrived at Sydney coinciding with the A350-1000 Qantas announcement.
https://mentourpilot.com/airbus-qantas- ... australia/
It is now in Singapore/Malaysia.
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/watch/n ... eo-2664406

There are many airlines in South-East Asia with similar operations as Qantas where they have low-cost subsidiaries
and market for countless thin routes. With two big renowned airlines in Asia Pacific region, Korean Air and soon Qantas, and a new Mirabel pre-fal in operation
the outlook for A220 is pretty good in the future.

https://australianaviation.com.au/2022/ ... n-in-2023/
Deliveries to begin late 2023 (say December). This means a new Qantas A220 will begin construction by next summer.
https://www.abcdlist.nl/cseries/cseries.html
one of the MSN# near the bottom of the list for unknown customer could be Qantas.

SA280 wrote:

As long as it is an ACMI, not a dry lease, I don't think those airlines are getting those real data on fuel consumption and DMC

For the latter, maybe not. For the former, very much so. ACMI literally means “Aircraft, Crew, Maintenance & Insurance”. Meaning you pay a fixed price for those elements to the owner of the aircraft, and on top of that you pay for the fuel yourself using your own contracts.

Thing is, though, Airbus Canada will have far more data than any individual airline, since they are collecting it from the entire fleet. And you can be damn sure they’re using those numbers in their sales campaigns. Anonymised, obviously, and in compliance with the agreements they have with the operators. Airlines do talk to each other and there’s nothing wrong or illegal about e.g. Air Baltic talking to Qantas about the numbers, experiences, losses and wins.

So prospective customers will have a very detailed set of data to make their decisions on, and “borrowing” a couple of units for “testing” would only serve to validate that data. It’s actually of far more value flying the aircraft as widely as possible in the airlines network, allowing for the different stations to do a bit of familiarisation. Having your own engineers take part in line- and base maintenance would also be of immense benefit, serving to dramatically shorten the learning curve if the airline decides to add the type to their fleet.

https://www.abcdlist.nl/cseries/cseries.html iIs forecasting a near term production for ALC with intended customer being Azimuth, potentially within the next few weeks. With current geopolitical realities, that lease customer delivery won't be happening as will a few others soon to follow to Azimuth. Would ALC continue to hold these for a future delivery to Azimuth or are they making arrangements to offer to other near term signed leasing customers?

yyztpa2 wrote:

https://www.abcdlist.nl/cseries/cseries.html iIs forecasting a near term production for ALC with intended customer being Azimuth, potentially within the next few weeks. With current geopolitical realities, that lease customer delivery won't be happening as will a few others soon to follow to Azimuth. Would ALC continue to hold these for a future delivery to Azimuth or are they making arrangements to offer to other near term signed leasing customers?

Considering ALC just recently wrote of $800 million from aircraft stuck in Russia I doubt they are holding them for Azimuth anymore.

Some interesting tidbits.
Why did Airbus enlist Swiss and airBaltic aircrafts for the recent A220 demo tours in 2022?
Airbus has its own test aircraft(s), or they could have used either Delta, JetBlue, or Breeze
which is much nearer to the American tour destinations than Swiss in Zurich.
Likewise, with the Asia Pacific they could have use Korean Air, but they opted for airBaltic from Riga.
Incidentally, Airbus did use a Korean Air A220 for the February 2022 airshow in Singapore. It just sat on the tarmac (exhibit X).

Here's my take. Two reasons I suspect.
First, Swiss and airBaltic were launch customers for the CSeries-100 and -300, respectively.
They committed to a fairly sizable order of 30 and 50, respectively. Significant risks, but more importantly they understood and believed in the product.
airBaltic initial order was for 20, but once their new aircrafts were in operation, they firmed up to 50.

Secondly, would you rather listen to some salesmen with Powerpoint presentations or to some experienced users of the product.
I read that a Swiss employee mentioned onboard the demo Swiss A220 were
their own pilots (who flew the A220 from Zurich to Latin American destinations), their cabin crews and engineers.
So, essentially the prospective airlines can pick their brains and their experience.

Airbus had partnered with airBaltic for several demo tours.
https://youtu.be/F0sAYj81QKA?t=477

Here's a great anecdotal bit about airBaltic CEO Martin Gauss, who incidentally has both 737 and A220 type ratings. He knows his stuff.
https://www.wingsoverquebec.com/?p=9019
snippet: "For an airline of this (airBaltic) size, it is more cost-effective to be able to use all of its aircraft across the network. Its low cost of operation and its greater range make the A220-300 more versatile. It was the flexibility of the A220-300 that played in its favor"
key aspects: versatility and flexibility

rtwodtwo wrote:

Some interesting tidbits.
Why did Airbus enlist Swiss and airBaltic aircrafts for the recent A220 demo tours in 2022?
Airbus has its own test aircraft(s), or they could have used either Delta, JetBlue, or Breeze
which is much nearer to the American tour destinations than Swiss in Zurich.
Likewise, with the Asia Pacific they could have use Korean Air, but they opted for airBaltic from Riga.
Incidentally, Airbus did use a Korean Air A220 for the February 2022 airshow in Singapore. It just sat on the tarmac (exhibit X).

Here's my take. Two reasons I suspect.
First, Swiss and airBaltic were launch customers for the CSeries-100 and -300, respectively.
They committed to a fairly sizable order of 30 and 50, respectively. Significant risks, but more importantly they understood and believed in the product.
airBaltic initial order was for 20, but once their new aircrafts were in operation, they firmed up to 50.

Secondly, would you rather listen to some salesmen with Powerpoint presentations or to some experienced users of the product.
I read a Swiss employer mentioned onboard the demo Swiss A220 were
their own pilots (who flew the A220 from Zurich to Latin American destinations), their cabin crews and engineers.
So, essentially they (the prospective airlines) can pick their brains and their experience.

Airbus had partnered with airBaltic for several demo tours.
https://youtu.be/F0sAYj81QKA?t=477

Here's a great anecdotal bit about airBaltic CEO Martin Gauss, who incidentally has both 737 and A220 type ratings. He knows his stuff.
https://www.wingsoverquebec.com/?p=9019
snippet: "For an airline of this (airBaltic) size, it is more cost-effective to be able to use all of its aircraft across the network. Its low cost of operation and its greater range make the A220-300 more versatile. It was the flexibility of the A220-300 that played in its favor"
key aspects: versatility and flexibility

Or because Delta, JetBlue, and Breeze all need the aircraft? I think you are reading way too much into that.

Or as Air Baltic currently has half their fleet out on lease (or grounded because of lack of spares), they have aircraft to spare

fcogafa wrote:

Or as Air Baltic currently has half their fleet out on lease (or grounded because of lack of spares), they have aircraft to spare

If they are struggling for spares to keep the planes flying - why are Baltic willing to potentially make this situation worse by send frames out on long trips around the world?

StTim wrote:

fcogafa wrote:

Or as Air Baltic currently has half their fleet out on lease (or grounded because of lack of spares), they have aircraft to spare

If they are struggling for spares to keep the planes flying - why are Baltic willing to potentially make this situation worse by send frames out on long trips around the world?

They are kind of all over the place. They leased out a bunch of A220s, but then wet leased some 737s.