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kaitak744
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Re: Delta Fleet Thread - 2022

Fri Sep 16, 2022 10:44 pm

Cactusjuba wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
kaitak744 wrote:
What is the long term game plan here? A high premium A330 configuration? Maybe a reconfiguration of the ex-NW A330s?


That is an interesting line of thinking. Eleven high J 332s to ply the transcons now that their range won't be needed on intercons, not with the 242T A330s, 330neos, and all of the A350s to enter the fleet? (All of which have superior seat economics.)


A321neo deliveries #51-72 will be premium transcon configured (16 D1 lie flat, 12 Premium Select, 54 C+, 66 Y. 148 total seats). Where do you think they'll fly these 21 aircraft?


Have a source for this? Or a photo of the layout?


Those are also likely to replace the D1 configured 757-200s.
 
n515cr
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Re: Delta Fleet Thread - 2022

Sat Sep 17, 2022 12:38 am

n515cr wrote:
FlyingHonu001 wrote:
I dont know if its mentioned...but when are they gonna finish up the PS mods on their remaining 333's?
DL needs to catch up on that one, now that KL has also joined the Premium Economy bandwagon for TATL,

3317 is in MSP for the PS mod. Expect at least one or two lines in SAL as well. The last 10 should be wrapped up pretty fast.t

3315 heading to SAL tomorrow for PS mods. https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/N815NW
 
Cactusjuba
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Re: Delta Fleet Thread - 2022

Sat Sep 17, 2022 12:41 am

kaitak744 wrote:
Cactusjuba wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

That is an interesting line of thinking. Eleven high J 332s to ply the transcons now that their range won't be needed on intercons, not with the 242T A330s, 330neos, and all of the A350s to enter the fleet? (All of which have superior seat economics.)


A321neo deliveries #51-72 will be premium transcon configured (16 D1 lie flat, 12 Premium Select, 54 C+, 66 Y. 148 total seats). Where do you think they'll fly these 21 aircraft?


Have a source for this? Or a photo of the layout?


Those are also likely to replace the D1 configured 757-200s.


I'm unable to share at that level. Sorry.
 
777Mech
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Re: Delta Fleet Thread - 2022

Sat Sep 17, 2022 12:51 am

notgranola wrote:
Booked a premium select ticket on DL224 (BOS-CDG) in December, scheduled to be operated by an A330-300. I'm aware that not all of the A333s have been retrofitted with the new product; is there any chance that I might end up on a non-refurbished plane and end up sitting in comfort plus? Or is delta treating the premium select birds as a separate sub fleet?


You should be good to go, the PS mod should wrap up on the 330s by that time.
 
jbs2886
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Re: Delta Fleet Thread - 2022

Sat Sep 17, 2022 1:26 am

Cactusjuba wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
kaitak744 wrote:
What is the long term game plan here? A high premium A330 configuration? Maybe a reconfiguration of the ex-NW A330s?


That is an interesting line of thinking. Eleven high J 332s to ply the transcons now that their range won't be needed on intercons, not with the 242T A330s, 330neos, and all of the A350s to enter the fleet? (All of which have superior seat economics.)


A321neo deliveries #51-72 will be premium transcon configured (16 D1 lie flat, 12 Premium Select, 54 C+, 66 Y. 148 total seats). Where do you think they'll fly these 21 aircraft?


Unless DL plans on dramatically increasing frequency, that would result in a large Delta One seat capacity drop on LAX and SFO.
 
kaitak744
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Re: Delta Fleet Thread - 2022

Sat Sep 17, 2022 8:26 am

Cactusjuba wrote:
kaitak744 wrote:
Cactusjuba wrote:

A321neo deliveries #51-72 will be premium transcon configured (16 D1 lie flat, 12 Premium Select, 54 C+, 66 Y. 148 total seats). Where do you think they'll fly these 21 aircraft?


Have a source for this? Or a photo of the layout?


Those are also likely to replace the D1 configured 757-200s.


I'm unable to share at that level. Sorry.


I can make up stuff too you know...

16 D1 seats per plane will not compete well against American, United, and JetBlue on transcon routes. And DL does not have an abundance of gates or slots at LAX, SFO, and JFK.
 
B757Forever
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Re: Delta Fleet Thread - 2022

Sat Sep 17, 2022 11:24 am

kaitak744 wrote:
Cactusjuba wrote:
kaitak744 wrote:

Have a source for this? Or a photo of the layout?


Those are also likely to replace the D1 configured 757-200s.


I'm unable to share at that level. Sorry.


I can make up stuff too you know...

16 D1 seats per plane will not compete well against American, United, and JetBlue on transcon routes. And DL does not have an abundance of gates or slots at LAX, SFO, and JFK.


A lot of people on this forum work in the industry and have access to proprietary information. As a condition of employment, we cannot share such information. I work in aircraft maintenance and have access to all the data and drawings for future mods and changes to the LOPA for the fleet, however I would never share it here. I can tell you though, Cactusjuba isn't wrong...
 
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Polot
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Re: Delta Fleet Thread - 2022

Sat Sep 17, 2022 1:03 pm

A premium DL A321neo layout leaked back in March: https://onemileatatime.com/news/delta-a ... flat-beds/

I can’t confirm the current validity of the LOPA in the embedded tweet in the article but it gives a general indication of where DL’s head is at.
 
23463245613
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Re: Delta Fleet Thread - 2022

Sat Sep 17, 2022 1:07 pm

I can’t see a 321 displace the 763 off JFK-LAX, that would be a huge reduction in seats. Perhaps on other transcons such as ones from BOS.
 
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Polot
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Re: Delta Fleet Thread - 2022

Sat Sep 17, 2022 1:13 pm

The reality is DL probably does not have a clear indication of what will fully replace all the 767s especially on their premium domestic routes which will probably be their final routes (because as someone mentioned the primary purpose of the premium A321neos is to replace the premium D1 757s which are used almost exclusively domestically now).

You are likely to see suboptimal short term solutions until a better long term solution is available.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Delta Fleet Thread - 2022

Sat Sep 17, 2022 1:27 pm

TonyClifton wrote:
I can’t see a 321 displace the 763 off JFK-LAX, that would be a huge reduction in seats. Perhaps on other transcons such as ones from BOS.


Not JFK-LAX, but SFO-LAX. That has long been DL's weaker route.
 
strfyr51
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Re: Delta Fleet Thread - 2022

Sat Sep 17, 2022 1:30 pm

SELMER40 wrote:
" 7th flight today" Why do planes coming out of TLS require so many test flights?

could it depand on the Airbus testing regime? I think Boeing flies just as many test flights.
 
23463245613
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Re: Delta Fleet Thread - 2022

Sat Sep 17, 2022 1:32 pm

Polot wrote:
The reality is DL probably does not have a clear indication of what will fully replace all the 767s especially on their premium domestic routes which will probably be their final routes (because as someone mentioned the primary purpose of the premium A321neos is to replace the premium D1 757s which are used almost exclusively domestically now).

You are likely to see suboptimal short term solutions until a better long term solution is available.

With a widebody NMA unlikely to see the light of day, I think the 763s will soldier on as long as possible. Good thing it’s a tough plane! It’s either 330neo or 787 for “smallest” widebody at this point.

Wonder if there’s any “gently used” 330s out there.
 
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Polot
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Re: Delta Fleet Thread - 2022

Sat Sep 17, 2022 1:34 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
SELMER40 wrote:
" 7th flight today" Why do planes coming out of TLS require so many test flights?

could it depand on the Airbus testing regime? I think Boeing flies just as many test flights.

It’s really more because airlines have been stalling deliveries requiring more test flights. Supply chain delays have also lead to some work being performed out of normal production order, requiring more test flights to ensure all is good.

For the A330neo specifically because of the plane’s weaker order book outside of DL Airbus has had to build DL planes much earlier than planned delivery to fill production, and subsequently been doing more test flights to ensure the frames are and remain in good order so there are no delays come delivery timeframe.
 
777Mech
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Re: Delta Fleet Thread - 2022

Sat Sep 17, 2022 3:31 pm

kaitak744 wrote:
Cactusjuba wrote:
kaitak744 wrote:

Have a source for this? Or a photo of the layout?


Those are also likely to replace the D1 configured 757-200s.


I'm unable to share at that level. Sorry.


I can make up stuff too you know...

16 D1 seats per plane will not compete well against American, United, and JetBlue on transcon routes. And DL does not have an abundance of gates or slots at LAX, SFO, and JFK.


You're free to believe what you want, but there are posters in this thread who have the inside scoop on the goings on for the fleet.

Anyways, isn't AA getting rid of the A321T anyways?
 
n515cr
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Re: Delta Fleet Thread - 2022

Sat Sep 17, 2022 7:17 pm

3413 exited NRT to MSP
New 359 spotted at TLS https://aibfamily.flights/A350/588. Presumably to be 3518?
3415 spotted with paint https://aibfamily.flights/A330/1997

IFC
3162 entered revenue service https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n362nb
3733 RTS pushed to tomorrow
Possible IFC visits: 3718, 3724, 3731, 3702
 
a2b7
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Re: Delta Fleet Thread - 2022

Sat Sep 17, 2022 7:39 pm

n515cr wrote:
3413 exited NRT to MSP
New 359 spotted at TLS https://aibfamily.flights/A350/588. Presumably to be 3518?
3415 spotted with paint https://aibfamily.flights/A330/1997

IFC
3162 entered revenue service https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n362nb
3733 RTS pushed to tomorrow
Possible IFC visits: 3718, 3724, 3731, 3702

I am afraid the photo shown on aibfamily.flights for A350 MSN 588 shows 3519 written on its vertical stabilizer, see https://flic.kr/p/2nM4Ei1 . According to https://www.abcdlist.nl/a350f/a350f.html 3518 should be MSN 580.
 
gonnagetbumpy
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Re: Delta Fleet Thread - 2022

Sat Sep 17, 2022 7:53 pm

 
AdEd
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Re: Delta Fleet Thread - 2022

Sat Sep 17, 2022 8:04 pm

kaitak744 wrote:
Trying to wrap my head around the 767-300ER fleet....

Are the 3 GE 767s still in the old 26J 200Y config going to get the new 26J 18W 172Y config?

Are the 15 PW 767s in the old 26J 200Y config going to get retired with the A330-900s coming in? (2 are in mod to get the new 26J 18W 172Y config)


I'd be surprised if N169DZ (1601) and N171DZ (1701) doesn't end up getting PS. 1602-1606 and 1702-1708 all received PS mods. I'm not sure about N394DL (1521) however, it's the oddball in the fleet. 1521 recently got reactivated but no mods were performed on it.

Some numbers have been thrown around in speculating the number of B763s getting PS. I've seen both 19 and 35. What I know for certain though is that certain seasonal TATL routes for summer 2023 are being sold without a PS cabin, such as JFK-KEF and JFK-PRG. While this may change between now and then, I still doubt we'll hit 35 frames.
 
a320flyer
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Re: Delta Fleet Thread - 2022

Sun Sep 18, 2022 1:57 am

CVG/RDU-CDG are also being sold without PS through the end of the schedule.
 
n515cr
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Re: Delta Fleet Thread - 2022

Sun Sep 18, 2022 2:01 am

a2b7 wrote:
n515cr wrote:
3413 exited NRT to MSP
New 359 spotted at TLS https://aibfamily.flights/A350/588. Presumably to be 3518?
3415 spotted with paint https://aibfamily.flights/A330/1997

IFC
3162 entered revenue service https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n362nb
3733 RTS pushed to tomorrow
Possible IFC visits: 3718, 3724, 3731, 3702

I am afraid the photo shown on aibfamily.flights for A350 MSN 588 shows 3519 written on its vertical stabilizer, see https://flic.kr/p/2nM4Ei1 . According to https://www.abcdlist.nl/a350f/a350f.html 3518 should be MSN 580.


Good catch on the tail.
 
audidudi
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Re: Delta Fleet Thread - 2022

Sun Sep 18, 2022 5:58 pm

I see that N573DZ is pinging at VCV…could it be the next to go to SIN for mods?

https://www.flightradar24.com/N573DZ/2d838356
 
23463245613
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Re: Delta Fleet Thread - 2022

Sun Sep 18, 2022 6:04 pm

audidudi wrote:
I see that N573DZ is pinging at VCV…could it be the next to go to SIN for mods?

https://www.flightradar24.com/N573DZ/2d838356

Could be for sure. Wonder what will happen to the 4 ex-LATAM 359s that flew for QR, that Delta was going to take pre-pandemic and then paid to not take. Didn’t DL register enough tailnumbers to account for all former LATAM 359s? Could we see those get acquired down the line? Current fleet plan appears to be 44, 35 factory new and 9 used. Quite a big boost from the peak 744+772 fleet,
 
TW870
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Re: Delta Fleet Thread - 2022

Mon Sep 19, 2022 1:15 am

One interesting thing I have been noticing is the degree to which the 757 flying is being refocused on ATL short haul. We have known this was coming, but it is really here now. In the last hour out of ATL there have been 757 outbounds on ATL-JAX, SAV, ORF, IND, MSY, and BNA in addition to virtually all of the central and south Florida destinations. When I flew through there the other day, the west side of A concourse was all 757s, with the vast majority doing short haul flying. This will get even more pronounced over the coming months, as 321N deliveries are going to speed up, taking over more transcon and Hawaii flying. It is actually a great use for the 757 at the end of its lifespan, as the relatively large boarding door at 2L allows premium passengers more time to get settled without passengers clogging the aisle, and allows FAs to do pre-departures more quickly. This matters when airplanes are doing more legs per day.
 
n515cr
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Re: Delta Fleet Thread - 2022

Mon Sep 19, 2022 1:36 am

TW870 wrote:
One interesting thing I have been noticing is the degree to which the 757 flying is being refocused on ATL short haul. We have known this was coming, but it is really here now. In the last hour out of ATL there have been 757 outbounds on ATL-JAX, SAV, ORF, IND, MSY, and BNA in addition to virtually all of the central and south Florida destinations. When I flew through there the other day, the west side of A concourse was all 757s, with the vast majority doing short haul flying. This will get even more pronounced over the coming months, as 321N deliveries are going to speed up, taking over more transcon and Hawaii flying. It is actually a great use for the 757 at the end of its lifespan, as the relatively large boarding door at 2L allows premium passengers more time to get settled without passengers clogging the aisle, and allows FAs to do pre-departures more quickly. This matters when airplanes are doing more legs per day.

ATL-JAX has had 757s on it for as long as I can remember...at least a decade I think. Always fun to have one on short flights with its takeoff capabilities.
 
n515cr
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Re: Delta Fleet Thread - 2022

Mon Sep 19, 2022 2:09 am

5008 delivery showing 9/20

IFC
3718, 3724, 3731 are in for IFC mods
3731 to RTS with IFC tonigh
3242 entering IFC mods tomorrow night. 320 mods starting up.
3708 also entering mods tomorrow night
 
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Keith2004
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Re: Delta Fleet Thread - 2022

Mon Sep 19, 2022 4:26 am

TW870 wrote:
One interesting thing I have been noticing is the degree to which the 757 flying is being refocused on ATL short haul. We have known this was coming, but it is really here now. In the last hour out of ATL there have been 757 outbounds on ATL-JAX, SAV, ORF, IND, MSY, and BNA in addition to virtually all of the central and south Florida destinations. When I flew through there the other day, the west side of A concourse was all 757s, with the vast majority doing short haul flying. This will get even more pronounced over the coming months, as 321N deliveries are going to speed up, taking over more transcon and Hawaii flying. It is actually a great use for the 757 at the end of its lifespan, as the relatively large boarding door at 2L allows premium passengers more time to get settled without passengers clogging the aisle, and allows FAs to do pre-departures more quickly. This matters when airplanes are doing more legs per day.


Said this in another thread but thought it relevant here too, Perhaps just excited as a 757 fan and Delta flyer, but starting 1/9/2022 all 8 flights daily BWI-ATL will be 757s vs the 739 they have mostly been. :D

757 has not really been on Delta's flights for BWI or DC area in general aside from a few DCA flights.

And to your point BWI at 577 miles would be an example of the quick turn. 8 daily flights, generally 1-1.5 hrs each, quick turns. As BWI is my closest airport this is a cool development.
 
DeltaRules
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Re: Delta Fleet Thread - 2022

Mon Sep 19, 2022 4:29 am

Some talk I saw on the SkyMiles Life Facebook group is there are going to be up to 3 739 configs with the ex-Lion Air birds coming aboard. Will all of them have AVOD? One of them (at least on Delta.com) indicates not.

TW870 wrote:
One interesting thing I have been noticing is the degree to which the 757 flying is being refocused on ATL short haul. We have known this was coming, but it is really here now. In the last hour out of ATL there have been 757 outbounds on ATL-JAX, SAV, ORF, IND, MSY, and BNA in addition to virtually all of the central and south Florida destinations. When I flew through there the other day, the west side of A concourse was all 757s, with the vast majority doing short haul flying. This will get even more pronounced over the coming months, as 321N deliveries are going to speed up, taking over more transcon and Hawaii flying. It is actually a great use for the 757 at the end of its lifespan, as the relatively large boarding door at 2L allows premium passengers more time to get settled without passengers clogging the aisle, and allows FAs to do pre-departures more quickly. This matters when airplanes are doing more legs per day.


They've been running them to places like PIT, RDU, and STL that I've seen recently. I really hope they throw them back on CMH-ATL, which is 739 heavy as-is.
 
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Boeing757100
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Re: Delta Fleet Thread - 2022

Mon Sep 19, 2022 11:28 am

TW870 wrote:
One interesting thing I have been noticing is the degree to which the 757 flying is being refocused on ATL short haul. We have known this was coming, but it is really here now. In the last hour out of ATL there have been 757 outbounds on ATL-JAX, SAV, ORF, IND, MSY, and BNA in addition to virtually all of the central and south Florida destinations. When I flew through there the other day, the west side of A concourse was all 757s, with the vast majority doing short haul flying. This will get even more pronounced over the coming months, as 321N deliveries are going to speed up, taking over more transcon and Hawaii flying. It is actually a great use for the 757 at the end of its lifespan, as the relatively large boarding door at 2L allows premium passengers more time to get settled without passengers clogging the aisle, and allows FAs to do pre-departures more quickly. This matters when airplanes are doing more legs per day.

This, and also, on shorter stage lengths like these, the fuel burn doesn't matter quite as much. Very similar situation to the MD-88/90 and DC-9s all those years ago, mostly flying short hauls out of ATL.

I do wonder though, will the KEF flights still see 757s or eventually 321N?
 
n515cr
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Re: Delta Fleet Thread - 2022

Mon Sep 19, 2022 1:44 pm

n515cr wrote:
5008 delivery showing 9/20

IFC
3718, 3724, 3731 are in for IFC mods
3731 to RTS with IFC tonigh
3242 entering IFC mods tomorrow night. 320 mods starting up.
3708 also entering mods tomorrow night


3731 RTS pushed to 9/20
3724 RTS 9/21
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Delta Fleet Thread - 2022

Mon Sep 19, 2022 2:53 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
Some talk I saw on the SkyMiles Life Facebook group is there are going to be up to 3 739 configs with the ex-Lion Air birds coming aboard. Will all of them have AVOD? One of them (at least on Delta.com) indicates not.


DL recently uploaded in the new versions of the 739 seat maps on delta.com

739 (the delivered new to DL frames)
20 / 21 / 139 = 180 seats

73J
12 / 6 / 162 = 180 seats
indicates it has in-seat video, and USB power at each seat
does not indicate it has wifi

73R
12 / 24 / 137 = 173 seats (has the rear cabin emergency exit behind the wing)
does not indicated it has in-seat-video, USB, wifi
 
timf
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Re: Delta Fleet Thread - 2022

Mon Sep 19, 2022 3:00 pm

The 73J configuration doesn't make sense to me. Why would they give F 45" of pitch and only have one row of Comfort? It seems like they could bring the rows closer together in order to allow 4 rows of Y+ like the 73R configuration. The new aircraft also appear to be missing the third aft lavatory. Hopefully these 12F configurations don't last long.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Delta Fleet Thread - 2022

Mon Sep 19, 2022 3:03 pm

That 73R config doesn’t make much sense to me. Get rid of 2 rows of F and it amounts to to only 3 more C+ and less Y seats.
 
Cactusjuba
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Re: Delta Fleet Thread - 2022

Mon Sep 19, 2022 3:42 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
Some talk I saw on the SkyMiles Life Facebook group is there are going to be up to 3 739 configs with the ex-Lion Air birds coming aboard. Will all of them have AVOD? One of them (at least on Delta.com) indicates not.

TW870 wrote:
One interesting thing I have been noticing is the degree to which the 757 flying is being refocused on ATL short haul. We have known this was coming, but it is really here now. In the last hour out of ATL there have been 757 outbounds on ATL-JAX, SAV, ORF, IND, MSY, and BNA in addition to virtually all of the central and south Florida destinations. When I flew through there the other day, the west side of A concourse was all 757s, with the vast majority doing short haul flying. This will get even more pronounced over the coming months, as 321N deliveries are going to speed up, taking over more transcon and Hawaii flying. It is actually a great use for the 757 at the end of its lifespan, as the relatively large boarding door at 2L allows premium passengers more time to get settled without passengers clogging the aisle, and allows FAs to do pre-departures more quickly. This matters when airplanes are doing more legs per day.


They've been running them to places like PIT, RDU, and STL that I've seen recently. I really hope they throw them back on CMH-ATL, which is 739 heavy as-is.


There are vendor delays in getting those 33 used 739s retrofitted to Delta standard. 21 of the 33 (Lion/Thai Lion) were configured at 215 seats, with the aft Emer Exit active + extra FA jumpseat. There are 90+ mods to do in just the flight deck for standardization. However the capacity is needed for 2023. These aircraft will be limited to 500nm of ATL, as they are not overwater equipped, have limited galley space, IFE & WiFi. Expect these aircraft to be active for about a year until returning for the full Delta standard mods.
 
346NEO
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Re: Delta Fleet Thread - 2022

Mon Sep 19, 2022 3:50 pm

73J looks identical to Batik's 739 layout. 1 row of Comfort+ makes sense because Batik didn't have any and the very first row probably comes with some extra legroom.
I'm guessing 73R layout is for the frames that came straight from Lion Air. They had functional mid cabin exit door while Batik had them deactivated (still physically there)
I don't get the IFE part, though. They're going to have to install new seats anyway. Maybe 73R is for temporary use as well.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Delta Fleet Thread - 2022

Mon Sep 19, 2022 3:59 pm

TW870 wrote:
One interesting thing I have been noticing is the degree to which the 757 flying is being refocused on ATL short haul.


Thanks for parsing the data and sharing the observation. I think a few people here were waiting for the day to come. It's pretty logical, really, to use the relatively more fuel efficient 739/321/32N fleets on long cruise trips. And I think a lot of senior 757 crew will quickly figure out how to bid away from those high segment per day 757 trips to maintain QOL. :D

Of course some 757s will get the call when they need field performance or absolute range. It's not as if 757s are obsolete.
 
TW870
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Re: Delta Fleet Thread - 2022

Mon Sep 19, 2022 4:55 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
TW870 wrote:
One interesting thing I have been noticing is the degree to which the 757 flying is being refocused on ATL short haul.


Thanks for parsing the data and sharing the observation. I think a few people here were waiting for the day to come. It's pretty logical, really, to use the relatively more fuel efficient 739/321/32N fleets on long cruise trips. And I think a lot of senior 757 crew will quickly figure out how to bid away from those high segment per day 757 trips to maintain QOL. :D

Of course some 757s will get the call when they need field performance or absolute range. It's not as if 757s are obsolete.


Pilots are already bidding away. 757/767 Captain in LAX went down to just above a year of seniority. The reason for this is that the flying for that fleet is as if the fleet was MD-88 and 767. While there will be some 1-leg per day transcons and the PPT (coming soon) trip covered by the fleet, there will be many trips that originate at SNA or LAX, fly to ATL, and then do 5 legs a day for several days - much like the -88 used to.

I also think you are right on field performance. Airports like EGE and SNA will continue to see the 757 just because its field performance is perfect for those routes. But with these pilot and fuel costs, I think there will be very few long 757 trips in a couple of years. If the route cannot work for a 321N or a widebody, it will most likely have to go.
 
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itripreport
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Re: Delta Fleet Thread - 2022

Mon Sep 19, 2022 5:06 pm

Have any of the 73J or 73Rs started flying yet? If so, do any of you know which registrations these aircraft that are in circulation are?
 
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Boeing757100
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Re: Delta Fleet Thread - 2022

Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:11 pm

TW870 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
TW870 wrote:
One interesting thing I have been noticing is the degree to which the 757 flying is being refocused on ATL short haul.


Thanks for parsing the data and sharing the observation. I think a few people here were waiting for the day to come. It's pretty logical, really, to use the relatively more fuel efficient 739/321/32N fleets on long cruise trips. And I think a lot of senior 757 crew will quickly figure out how to bid away from those high segment per day 757 trips to maintain QOL. :D

Of course some 757s will get the call when they need field performance or absolute range. It's not as if 757s are obsolete.


Pilots are already bidding away. 757/767 Captain in LAX went down to just above a year of seniority. The reason for this is that the flying for that fleet is as if the fleet was MD-88 and 767. While there will be some 1-leg per day transcons and the PPT (coming soon) trip covered by the fleet, there will be many trips that originate at SNA or LAX, fly to ATL, and then do 5 legs a day for several days - much like the -88 used to.

I also think you are right on field performance. Airports like EGE and SNA will continue to see the 757 just because its field performance is perfect for those routes. But with these pilot and fuel costs, I think there will be very few long 757 trips in a couple of years. If the route cannot work for a 321N or a widebody, it will most likely have to go.

So what about SXM? Do the A321s have the power to operate out of a short runway like SXM?
 
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Re: Delta Fleet Thread - 2022

Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:27 pm

Boeing757100 wrote:
TW870 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

Thanks for parsing the data and sharing the observation. I think a few people here were waiting for the day to come. It's pretty logical, really, to use the relatively more fuel efficient 739/321/32N fleets on long cruise trips. And I think a lot of senior 757 crew will quickly figure out how to bid away from those high segment per day 757 trips to maintain QOL. :D

Of course some 757s will get the call when they need field performance or absolute range. It's not as if 757s are obsolete.


Pilots are already bidding away. 757/767 Captain in LAX went down to just above a year of seniority. The reason for this is that the flying for that fleet is as if the fleet was MD-88 and 767. While there will be some 1-leg per day transcons and the PPT (coming soon) trip covered by the fleet, there will be many trips that originate at SNA or LAX, fly to ATL, and then do 5 legs a day for several days - much like the -88 used to.

I also think you are right on field performance. Airports like EGE and SNA will continue to see the 757 just because its field performance is perfect for those routes. But with these pilot and fuel costs, I think there will be very few long 757 trips in a couple of years. If the route cannot work for a 321N or a widebody, it will most likely have to go.

So what about SXM? Do the A321s have the power to operate out of a short runway like SXM?

JetBlue flies the A320 in, I’d imagine the 321 could do it with some payload limitations depending on the day.
 
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1337Delta764
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Re: Delta Fleet Thread - 2022

Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:48 pm

Cactusjuba wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
There are vendor delays in getting those 33 used 739s retrofitted to Delta standard. 21 of the 33 (Lion/Thai Lion) were configured at 215 seats, with the aft Emer Exit active + extra FA jumpseat. There are 90+ mods to do in just the flight deck for standardization. However the capacity is needed for 2023. These aircraft will be limited to 500nm of ATL, as they are not overwater equipped, have limited galley space, IFE & WiFi. Expect these aircraft to be active for about a year until returning for the full Delta standard mods.


I wonder, when they get IFE, will they get Panasonic Fusion for consistency with the rest of the 739ER fleet, or will they get the newer Delta in-house IFE?
 
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Polot
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Re: Delta Fleet Thread - 2022

Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:00 pm

TonyClifton wrote:
Boeing757100 wrote:
TW870 wrote:

Pilots are already bidding away. 757/767 Captain in LAX went down to just above a year of seniority. The reason for this is that the flying for that fleet is as if the fleet was MD-88 and 767. While there will be some 1-leg per day transcons and the PPT (coming soon) trip covered by the fleet, there will be many trips that originate at SNA or LAX, fly to ATL, and then do 5 legs a day for several days - much like the -88 used to.

I also think you are right on field performance. Airports like EGE and SNA will continue to see the 757 just because its field performance is perfect for those routes. But with these pilot and fuel costs, I think there will be very few long 757 trips in a couple of years. If the route cannot work for a 321N or a widebody, it will most likely have to go.

So what about SXM? Do the A321s have the power to operate out of a short runway like SXM?

JetBlue flies the A320 in, I’d imagine the 321 could do it with some payload limitations depending on the day.

US, AA, NK, and B6 have all flown the A321 into SXM. The airport’s runway is not that short…it’s longer than the runways at LGA and DCA. There are some terrain considerations on takeoff but it is not a major issue for most flights to the US.
Last edited by Polot on Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
TW870
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Re: Delta Fleet Thread - 2022

Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:01 pm

TonyClifton wrote:
Boeing757100 wrote:
TW870 wrote:

Pilots are already bidding away. 757/767 Captain in LAX went down to just above a year of seniority. The reason for this is that the flying for that fleet is as if the fleet was MD-88 and 767. While there will be some 1-leg per day transcons and the PPT (coming soon) trip covered by the fleet, there will be many trips that originate at SNA or LAX, fly to ATL, and then do 5 legs a day for several days - much like the -88 used to.

I also think you are right on field performance. Airports like EGE and SNA will continue to see the 757 just because its field performance is perfect for those routes. But with these pilot and fuel costs, I think there will be very few long 757 trips in a couple of years. If the route cannot work for a 321N or a widebody, it will most likely have to go.

So what about SXM? Do the A321s have the power to operate out of a short runway like SXM?

JetBlue flies the A320 in, I’d imagine the 321 could do it with some payload limitations depending on the day.


SXM isn't a performance problem given Princess Juliana's 7500-foot runway at sea level.

In addition to SNA and EGE, two other airports that immediately come to mind that make full use of the 757's performance are BOG and MEX, and 8,300 and 7.300 ft. MSL. I don't know enough about exact performance data, but I am guessing even the 321N would have trouble with BOG-JFK full from that altitude.
 
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Re: Delta Fleet Thread - 2022

Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:38 pm

Polot wrote:
TonyClifton wrote:
Boeing757100 wrote:
So what about SXM? Do the A321s have the power to operate out of a short runway like SXM?

JetBlue flies the A320 in, I’d imagine the 321 could do it with some payload limitations depending on the day.

US, AA, NK, and B6 have all flown the A321 into SXM. The airport’s runway is not that short…it’s longer than the runways at LGA and DCA. There are some terrain considerations on takeoff but it is not a major issue for most flights to the US.

Yeah I could easily see the 321neo slot in as needed. I don’t think the 320/321s have HF radios, so it would have to be the Neos with them.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Delta Fleet Thread - 2022

Mon Sep 19, 2022 11:15 pm

TW870 wrote:
SXM isn't a performance problem given Princess Juliana's 7500-foot runway at sea level.

In addition to SNA and EGE, two other airports that immediately come to mind that make full use of the 757's performance are BOG and MEX, and 8,300 and 7.300 ft. MSL. I don't know enough about exact performance data, but I am guessing even the 321N would have trouble with BOG-JFK full from that altitude.


I was thinking about BOG-ATL. I was also thinking about SLC-BOS on a 95F day. Any DL dispatchers want to note how many seats you'd need to block on a 739?
 
TW870
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Re: Delta Fleet Thread - 2022

Tue Sep 20, 2022 12:39 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
TW870 wrote:
SXM isn't a performance problem given Princess Juliana's 7500-foot runway at sea level.

In addition to SNA and EGE, two other airports that immediately come to mind that make full use of the 757's performance are BOG and MEX, and 8,300 and 7.300 ft. MSL. I don't know enough about exact performance data, but I am guessing even the 321N would have trouble with BOG-JFK full from that altitude.


I was thinking about BOG-ATL. I was also thinking about SLC-BOS on a 95F day. Any DL dispatchers want to note how many seats you'd need to block on a 739?


Yep, that is another great example, especially as we saw A339s - a hugely capable airplane - on SLC-AMS tech stopping at MSP due to high density altitude in SLC.

At the end of the day, though, you always see this in the industry with technological change, as no new portfolio of aircraft can completely replace what came before. A good example is that after the 1979 oil shock, long haul on 707s and DC-8-50s and -60s became prohibitive due to those airplanes' terrible fuel unit costs. But the DC-10-30 and long haul L1011s' trip costs were considerably higher, which made longer, thinner long haul much more difficult. Those issues didn't really get fixed until the 767ER airplanes began to appear in the mid-1980s. In today's case, the money saved on transitioning medium haul flying away from the 757 and toward the 321 and 737 derivatives will save way more than the lost revenue on routes that don't work anymore.

Meanwhile, watching the short-haul 75s roll into ATL - ORF, RIC, and IND in the last 30 mins.
 
n515cr
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Re: Delta Fleet Thread - 2022

Tue Sep 20, 2022 3:16 am

n515cr wrote:
5008 delivery showing 9/20

IFC
3718, 3724, 3731 are in for IFC mods
3731 to RTS with IFC tonigh
3242 entering IFC mods tomorrow night. 320 mods starting up.
3708 also entering mods tomorrow night


3005 delivery 9/21
3242 entry delayed
3708 on track for entry 9/20
3731 RTS pushed to 9/21
3724 RTS on track 9/21
 
SEAorPWM
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Re: Delta Fleet Thread - 2022

Tue Sep 20, 2022 5:06 am

TonyClifton wrote:
Polot wrote:
TonyClifton wrote:
JetBlue flies the A320 in, I’d imagine the 321 could do it with some payload limitations depending on the day.

US, AA, NK, and B6 have all flown the A321 into SXM. The airport’s runway is not that short…it’s longer than the runways at LGA and DCA. There are some terrain considerations on takeoff but it is not a major issue for most flights to the US.

Yeah I could easily see the 321neo slot in as needed. I don’t think the 320/321s have HF radios, so it would have to be the Neos with them.


I would think it would be a 321. It makes no sense to replace a 20-30 year old 757 with a 20-30 year old build of a smaller type with the same generation of engines.
 
Ryan877
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Re: Delta Fleet Thread - 2022

Tue Sep 20, 2022 6:12 am

TW870 wrote:
I also think you are right on field performance. Airports like EGE and SNA will continue to see the 757 just because its field performance is perfect for those routes. But with these pilot and fuel costs, I think there will be very few long 757 trips in a couple of years. If the route cannot work for a 321N or a widebody, it will most likely have to go.


I wonder if these airports could be some of the last 757 routes for Delta. In particular, I'm intrigued to see if we end up having 40 - 45 years of 757 service on the SNA - ATL route, which was first flown with the 757 all the way back in November 1987 (before the Thomas F. Riley terminal even opened). I had the opportunity to fly this route back in the spring and the takeoff out of SNA was truly special. It will be a sad day when the last of these planes leave for the desert.

Also, could the 321N do SNA - ATL? If not, then I'm not sure what could without taking a significant payload hit.
 
SESGDL
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Re: Delta Fleet Thread - 2022

Tue Sep 20, 2022 12:31 pm

Ryan877 wrote:
TW870 wrote:
I also think you are right on field performance. Airports like EGE and SNA will continue to see the 757 just because its field performance is perfect for those routes. But with these pilot and fuel costs, I think there will be very few long 757 trips in a couple of years. If the route cannot work for a 321N or a widebody, it will most likely have to go.


I wonder if these airports could be some of the last 757 routes for Delta. In particular, I'm intrigued to see if we end up having 40 - 45 years of 757 service on the SNA - ATL route, which was first flown with the 757 all the way back in November 1987 (before the Thomas F. Riley terminal even opened). I had the opportunity to fly this route back in the spring and the takeoff out of SNA was truly special. It will be a sad day when the last of these planes leave for the desert.

Also, could the 321N do SNA - ATL? If not, then I'm not sure what could without taking a significant payload hit.


The A220 or A319 should be able to do this route with no issues. While a lot less capacity than the 757, it would provide a lot fewer obstacles than trying to fly a payload restricted 321N.

Jeremy

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