Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
beertrucker wrote:On a side note does anyone know where in the backlog list the first Delta 321neo will built. I know they say first half but kinda was wondering when we might see pics of the first plane being built.
beertrucker wrote:
Since delta has not ordered a true replacement for the A319/320/738. Do you think they waiting for either a A220-500 to be announced or would they lease some Neos until a true replacement is there?
windian425 wrote:How many A321NEO's is DL expected to take in 2022?
MIflyer12 wrote:beertrucker wrote:
Since delta has not ordered a true replacement for the A319/320/738. Do you think they waiting for either a A220-500 to be announced or would they lease some Neos until a true replacement is there?
By the time the 95th A220 is delivered, DL will have economic quantities (frames, parts, and pilots) of A220s, 737s, and 32x all. They talk often (and again recently) about the virtues of upgauging, and an upgauge from the A319 is a MAX8 or 320neo very nicely. IMHO, as the A320s are retired, the seventy-seven 738s do not sufficiently plug the gap between 130-seat A223s and 180-seat 739s. There have been posts pointing to a narrowbody RFP. It could be 321XLRs (if current 321neo orders lack conversion rights), or A320 replacements and growth.
jplatts wrote:MIflyer12 wrote:beertrucker wrote:
Since delta has not ordered a true replacement for the A319/320/738. Do you think they waiting for either a A220-500 to be announced or would they lease some Neos until a true replacement is there?
By the time the 95th A220 is delivered, DL will have economic quantities (frames, parts, and pilots) of A220s, 737s, and 32x all. They talk often (and again recently) about the virtues of upgauging, and an upgauge from the A319 is a MAX8 or 320neo very nicely. IMHO, as the A320s are retired, the seventy-seven 738s do not sufficiently plug the gap between 130-seat A223s and 180-seat 739s. There have been posts pointing to a narrowbody RFP. It could be 321XLRs (if current 321neo orders lack conversion rights), or A320 replacements and growth.
DL ordering some more A220-100 and A220-300 planes (in addition to the A220-100's and A220-300's that DL already has ordered) is a possibility to replace the A319's and 717's.
DL ordering some 737 MAX 8 or A320neo planes to replace A320ceo's and 737-800's is a possibility, especially with DL likely needing some planes bigger than the A220-300 but smaller than the A321neo in its fleet.
I would likely expect DL to place orders for new narrowbody aircraft in the near future (in addition to the orders that DL already has placed for some A220's and A321neo's).
777Mech wrote:Anyway we can put the fleet numbers and their respective fleet type in the OP for reference?
DL_Mech wrote:777Mech wrote:Anyway we can put the fleet numbers and their respective fleet type in the OP for reference?
Better yet, can we have a sticky somewhere showing all airlines fleet numbers as a cross reference (especially AA)?
trexel94 wrote:Any chance that DL caves in and orders that A338 as the 767 replacement? Boeing isn’t making the MOM any time soon.
trexel94 wrote:Any chance that DL caves in and orders that A338 as the 767 replacement? Boeing isn’t making the MOM any time soon.
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:Happy New Year as well.
I started working on this yesterday, but here is a high-level summary of where things stand for each fleet type, with key information:
YE 2021 Fleet count:
Small Narrowbody:
B712: 55
A221: 41
A223: 10
A319: 57
Medium Narrowbody:
A320: 56
B738: 77
Large Narrowbody:
B739: 132
A321: 127
B752: 100
B753: 16
Widebody:
B763: 41
B764: 21
A332: 11
A339: 11
A333: 21
A359: 15
New Deliveries Scheduled for 2022:
(not including second-hand acquisitions:
A221: 4 (balance of order)
A223: 7
A321NEO: 18
A339: 9
A359: 2
Detailed commentary by fleet type:
Small Narrowbody:
B717:
55 active
12F / 16 W / 78Y = 110 seats
Fleet numbers (95xx)
- Down from 91 active pre-pandemic
- Internal discussion / rumors of fleet returning up to an active fleet of 64 for Summer 2022
- A few frames have been reactivated over the past couple of months, as the fleet was down to as low as 45 during the depth of the pandemic
- Remaining pilot bases at ATL & DTW. A limited amount of MSP routes have returned, but flown by aircraft and pilots bridged from ATL & DTW.
- Some of the owned frames, stored at BYH have been parted-out
- DL has publicly / officially said, as of late 2020, they intend to retire the 717s by the end of 2025
- As of late 2021 has indicated that the 717 is a flex-fleet / flex-capacity and can ramp-up/down as market conditions dictate
A221:
41 active, 4 on-order
12 F / 15 W / 82 Y = 109 seats
Fleet numbers: (81xx)
- Remaining 4 on-order to be delivered in 2022
A223:
10 active, 35 on-order
12 F / 30 W / 88 Y = 130 seats
Fleet numbers: (83xx)
- 7 to be delivered in 2022
- Additional 50 options beyond the current firm orders
A319:
57 active (~6 in storage)
12 F / 18 W / 102 Y = 132 seats
Fleet numbers (31xx)
- Average fleet age is 20 years old, similar vintage to the 738 fleet
- Remaining aircraft in storage anticipated to be reactivated in 2022
- Anticipated to remain in service through end-of-life
Medium Narrowbody
A320:
56 active
16 F / 18 W / 123 Y = 157 seats
Fleet numbers (32xx)
- During the depth of the pandemic, the 10 next-up for maintenance were slated to be retired, but 4 of those were reactived, but the remaining 6 remained retired and recent photos have indicated some part-out activity on some of those frames
- The oldest tranche of A320s are near or over 30 years old, and likely have been through their last and final heavy maintenance checks, and likely coming due for retirement in the next 2-4 years
- The youngest tranche of A320s is of similar vintage to the A319 fleet (18-23 years old) and will likely be in-service through end of life
B738:
77 active (none remain in storage)
16 F / 36 W / 108Y = 160 seats
Fleet numbers (37xx)
- Rumored to be coming due for interior mods, that were put on-hold during the pandemic
- All are around 20-22 years old, and anticipated to be in the fleet until end of life.
Large Narrowbody:
B739:
132 active (none remain in storage), 29 acquired/not-yet-inducted
20 F / 21 W / 139 Y = 180 seats
Fleet numbers (38xx, 39xx)
- 29 additional frames acquired second-hand to start entering service in mid-2022, anticipated to enter service at an estimated rate of 2-3 per month, with all in service by late 2023
A321 (CEO):
127 active
20 F / 29 W / 142 Y = 191 seats
Fleet numbers (30xx, 10xx)
- The final, 127th and end of the the line CEO was delivered in December 2021
- Fleet was all delivered new to DL between 2016-2021
A321 (NEO):
155 on-order, with 70 additional options
Config TBD
Fleet numbers TBD
- 18 scheduled for delivery in 2022
- First planned routes to be out of BOS in mid-2022 (nothing loaded yet)
- New First class seat to be unveiled on the NEO fleet
B752:
100 in active fleet (~11 are in storage), & additional 11 in the 75C /NBA VIP charter configuration)
75D (62): 20 F / 29 W / 150 Y = 199 seats
75H (15): 20 F / 29 W / 150 Y = 199 seats
75G (5): 20 F / 41 W / 132 Y = 193 seats
75S (18): 16 J / 44 W / 108 Y = 168 seats
75C (11): 72 F = 72 seats
Fleet Numbers:
75D/H: (6xx, 67xx, 56xx – PMNW)
75G: (6819-6823)
75S: (6801-6818)
75C: (6xx)
- publicly said that about 60 will be retired later this decade, but the newer balance of the fleet may fly in to the early 2030s
- Some of the oldest 30+ year old 75Ds have likely been through their last and final HMV check, meaning they will be retired in the next 2-4 years
- Not yet considered a flex fleet, but are getting to that point soon
- Pilot bases (7ER) have been consolidated to SEA, LAX, ATL, NYC but there is still plenty of 757 flying out of DTW, MSP, SLC
B753:
16 active
75Y: 24 F / 32 W / 178 Y = 234 seats
Fleet numbers: 58xx
- Likely to be around through end-of-life, at least end of decade
Widebody:
B763:
41 active
76L: 36 J / 32 W / 143 Y = 211 seats
76Z: 26 J / 35 W / 165 Y = 226 seats
76K: 26 J / 18 PS / 21 W / 151 Y = 216 seats
Fleet numbers: (1xx, 12xx, 15xx, 16xx, 17xx)
- Down from pre-pandemic fleet of 54, with frames primarily retired and sold to cargo conversion
- Publicly announced as of late-2020 full retirement planned by end 2025
- As of late 2021, referred to as a flex-fleet / capacity as market conditions dictate, and has walked-back from a definitive retirement date
- 76K mod, adding PS/premium select to at least 19 frames, Rumors that could be put into more / all frames as market conditions dictate on those that remain beyond 2022-2023
B764:
21 total, (19 in service, 2 in storage)
34 J / 20 PS / 28 W / 156 Y = 238 seats
Fleet numbers (18xx)
- 2 remain in storage, anticipated to come out in early 2022 and get PS mods before returning to service
- Around 20 years old, anticipated to remain in service through end-of-life
- 765 pilots bases at NYC and ATL
A332:
11 active
332: 34 J / 32 W / 168 Y = 234 seats
3M2: 34 J / 21 PS / 24 W / 144 Y = 223 seats
Fleet numbers: (3351-3361)
- Mods underway for Premium Select
- Aircraft at mid-live, 15-17 years
A333:
31 active:
333: 34 J / 40 W / 219 Y = 293 seats
3M3: 34 J / 21 PS / 24 W / 203 Y = 282 seats
Fleet numbers: (3301-3331)
- Mods underway for Premium Select
- PMNW original aircraft (21) at mid-live, 15-17 years, the DL top-up order (10) are 5-7 years old
A339:
11 active, 26 on-order
339: 29 J / 28 PS / 56 W / 168 Y = 281 seats
Fleet numbers: (34xx)
- 11 of 37 delivered
- 9 scheduled for delivery in 2022 (I believe it was originally to be 8, and the thereafter an additional frame was pulled ahead from 2023 to 2022)
A359:
15 active, 20 on-order, 7 acquired/not-yet-in service
32 J / 48 PS / 36 W / 190 Y = 306 seats
Fleet numbers (35xx)
- 2 new A359s to be delivered in 2022
- 7 second-hand acquired frames, to start being added to the fleet in mid-2022 through 2023 at an estimated rate 1 about every other month
- Total future fleet to be 42 frames (delivered, on-order, acquired)
n515cr wrote:Happy New Year!
IFC
6715 showing RTS 1/3
Watch for 689 o r 692 to enter mods
LFW wrote:As for a small wide body, the JFK-LAX 763 routes become what? Perhaps 333 with high J?
MIflyer12 wrote:That's a route that has seen 764s, and could again. There's plenty of demand for coach seats NYC-LAX, and from a passenger perspective it's a very competitive product.
panamair wrote:MIflyer12 wrote:That's a route that has seen 764s, and could again. There's plenty of demand for coach seats NYC-LAX, and from a passenger perspective it's a very competitive product.
JFK-LAX is on average for January evenly split between the 764 and 763( at peak times it has even been a majority of 764s - example being today Jan 2, six of the eight flights today are being operated by the 764).
Someone83 wrote:While not Delta's own, what are their total regional fleet/capacity at YE '21?
rsgolfpunk wrote:What happened to the 30-40 pre-covid 717s that are no longer in the flying fleet?
MIflyer12 wrote:LFW wrote:As for a small wide body, the JFK-LAX 763 routes become what? Perhaps 333 with high J?
That's a route that has seen 764s, and could again. There's plenty of demand for coach seats NYC-LAX, and from a passenger perspective it's a very competitive product. I'm not sure the argument for a 333 subfleet with alternate seating config is compelling.
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:rsgolfpunk wrote:What happened to the 30-40 pre-covid 717s that are no longer in the flying fleet?
In storage, most are split between SBD & BHM, with a handful at BYH.
Don't quote me on this, but I think but most of the lease terminations are at SBD, most of the ones stored at BHM are still on lease, and most of the ones at BYH are owned frames are partially being parted out.
rsgolfpunk wrote:PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:rsgolfpunk wrote:What happened to the 30-40 pre-covid 717s that are no longer in the flying fleet?
In storage, most are split between SBD & BHM, with a handful at BYH.
Don't quote me on this, but I think but most of the lease terminations are at SBD, most of the ones stored at BHM are still on lease, and most of the ones at BYH are owned frames are partially being parted out.
It’s interesting that DL isn’t flying way more of the 717 fleet to have shorter ATL/DTW routes in-house.