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JoseSalazar
Posts: 848
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:18 am

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Tue Mar 29, 2022 11:57 pm

sxf24 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
sxf24 wrote:

This is a B6 thread and we’re talking about B6 challenges.

Also, striving for the mean is a pretty crappy strategy. If B6 and it’s supporters act like they’re the best, they should have a plan to be the best, not just as bad as everyone else.


Who said I'm acting like they are the best? I'm simply stating facts. The fact is that there is no evidence they will have worse operational problems than other carriers this summer, because they could always cancel more flights a month out if they don't think they have resources to operate them. I'd expect their OTP to be a little worse than average at JFK & BOS, because that's where they always are. Maybe they will be a lot worse than average this summer, but I haven't seen any evidence thus far to indicate that. They are already operating over 1000 flights a day. They will have more flights than that in the summer, but they should also have more staff by then.


I did not comment on your views or actions regarding this topic.

However, I will say that proactively coming up with excuses for future operational performance is gaslighting. Other major airlines are quite confident in their ability to staff and reliably operate flights. When they can’t, schedules are adjusted. My view is that B6 would be a better airline if they emulate their peers in this area.

Isn’t adjusting their schedule exactly what jetblue is doing? Isn’t that what you are proposing? I guess I’m missing something.
 
sxf24
Posts: 2043
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:22 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Wed Mar 30, 2022 12:02 am

JoseSalazar wrote:
sxf24 wrote:
tphuang wrote:

Who said I'm acting like they are the best? I'm simply stating facts. The fact is that there is no evidence they will have worse operational problems than other carriers this summer, because they could always cancel more flights a month out if they don't think they have resources to operate them. I'd expect their OTP to be a little worse than average at JFK & BOS, because that's where they always are. Maybe they will be a lot worse than average this summer, but I haven't seen any evidence thus far to indicate that. They are already operating over 1000 flights a day. They will have more flights than that in the summer, but they should also have more staff by then.


I did not comment on your views or actions regarding this topic.

However, I will say that proactively coming up with excuses for future operational performance is gaslighting. Other major airlines are quite confident in their ability to staff and reliably operate flights. When they can’t, schedules are adjusted. My view is that B6 would be a better airline if they emulate their peers in this area.

Isn’t adjusting their schedule exactly what jetblue is doing? Isn’t that what you are proposing? I guess I’m missing something.


You’re right, they are making some schedule adjustments. I should have clarified my intent: cutting a sufficient number of flights so that those that remain can be reliably operated.
 
lat41
Posts: 816
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 12:23 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Wed Mar 30, 2022 12:04 am

B6BOSfan wrote:


I've heard similar things from a friend who works in ground operations in Boston. I've had too many examples of friends flying B6 recently (BOS-DCA, BOS-LAX, BOS-NAS) who have experienced severe delays, poor communication and, eventually cancelled flights).

I think frequent fliers know issues can happen, but some of the things happening with B6 ops are insane. Early morning DCA-BOS flights should NOT start out with 2 - 4 hour delays. It shouldn't be standard operating procedure to just depart 30 minutes late for a flight and then sit on the ground for 30 minutes after landing because of ground ops issues. That's not even getting into late-evening flights -- which end up being severely delayed due to the issues earlier in the day -- and the redeyes that come back hours late from the west coast back east.

It's not like JetBlue is cheap anymore, either. Most times, I've found DL flights cheaper, with more departure time options. Sure, there's a connection, but I know the on-time performance will be better.

I've switched all of my flying out of BOS from B6 to DL and UA. They have just been far more reliable this winter and schedules more consistent. I'm about to have hundreds of dollars of JetBlue credits just disappear, because each time i tried using, my flights were cancelled, or consolidated into one flight 12 hours later.

Their onboard product is great, but it isn't worth the aggravation of dealing with the madness leading up to the flights.

Severe delays, poor communications and eventually cancelled flights indeed! I have experienced all three to the South at PVD, though a small station, Please JetBlue don't string people along, knowing the flight likely won't operate and spring it on passengers that have been hanging around for hours as has happened to me more than once. B6 must keep a laminated card with a list of excuses. B6 did not make many friends this past Winter.
 
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TheLunchbox
Posts: 155
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:31 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Wed Mar 30, 2022 12:58 am

sxf24 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
bpat777 wrote:

I agree about the potential summer chaos. I personally know 2 B6 in-flight crew members who have advised me to avoid B6 this summer because it's going to be a nightmare.


And that would be a case of only seeing one's own problems. Guess what, a lot of carriers this summer will have operation issues due to staffing, especially the regionals.

Should everyone be avoiding RJs and ULCCs (who increased capacity 20%)?


This is a B6 thread and we’re talking about B6 challenges.

Also, striving for the mean is a pretty crappy strategy. If B6 and it’s supporters act like they’re the best, they should have a plan to be the best, not just as bad as everyone else.


What's wrong with comparing JetBlue operations to others? Is it weakening your argument so you're saying don't compare? Hearing gripes from some mostly disgruntled employees that they themselves will not go out of their way to help JetBlue or run a better operation...and i'd be shocked if they said one good thing about the airline. Clearly their management is working on running a better operation (finally) so let's see how it shakes out. Kinda like unions... only feed them the bad news to make them triggered.
 
tphuang
Posts: 7259
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Wed Mar 30, 2022 1:11 am

I will say this one more thing for people really concerned about IRROPS for B6. There have now been a couple of data points out there that B6 passengers can get rebooked on AA flight (maybe 1-stop option) in the event of a cancellation. That was always the biggest knock against JetBlue. If the flight cancels, they can't get you there until the next stay. Now that they have this partnership with AA, this looks to be something they have finally implemented after a year.

With free SDC now also available on AA flights for mosaic members, there are more options for same day changes in the even there is a long delay for your flight.

lat41 wrote:
B6BOSfan wrote:


I've heard similar things from a friend who works in ground operations in Boston. I've had too many examples of friends flying B6 recently (BOS-DCA, BOS-LAX, BOS-NAS) who have experienced severe delays, poor communication and, eventually cancelled flights).

I think frequent fliers know issues can happen, but some of the things happening with B6 ops are insane. Early morning DCA-BOS flights should NOT start out with 2 - 4 hour delays. It shouldn't be standard operating procedure to just depart 30 minutes late for a flight and then sit on the ground for 30 minutes after landing because of ground ops issues. That's not even getting into late-evening flights -- which end up being severely delayed due to the issues earlier in the day -- and the redeyes that come back hours late from the west coast back east.

It's not like JetBlue is cheap anymore, either. Most times, I've found DL flights cheaper, with more departure time options. Sure, there's a connection, but I know the on-time performance will be better.

I've switched all of my flying out of BOS from B6 to DL and UA. They have just been far more reliable this winter and schedules more consistent. I'm about to have hundreds of dollars of JetBlue credits just disappear, because each time i tried using, my flights were cancelled, or consolidated into one flight 12 hours later.

Their onboard product is great, but it isn't worth the aggravation of dealing with the madness leading up to the flights.

Severe delays, poor communications and eventually cancelled flights indeed! I have experienced all three to the South at PVD, though a small station, Please JetBlue don't string people along, knowing the flight likely won't operate and spring it on passengers that have been hanging around for hours as has happened to me more than once. B6 must keep a laminated card with a list of excuses. B6 did not make many friends this past Winter.


I think in this case, JetBlue was probably hit harder by Omicron than any other airline and that really affected their operations in January and February.

Are they short staffed? Sounds like it. But it sounds like they are trying to hire a lot more and really cut back an overly ambitious schedule for summer time (I have documented earlier this thread on how much they cut back last week). Their OTP today at BOS is 83%. Not great for a Tuesday, but not that bad either. And we know that they are looking to aggressively bring back their BOS schedule this summer (sacrificing FLL/LAX/EWR along the way). So there will be a lot more options they can rebook or change your flight to in the even of a long delay or cancellation. And AA is a rebooking option now.
 
sxf24
Posts: 2043
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:22 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Wed Mar 30, 2022 3:31 am

TheLunchbox wrote:
sxf24 wrote:
tphuang wrote:

And that would be a case of only seeing one's own problems. Guess what, a lot of carriers this summer will have operation issues due to staffing, especially the regionals.

Should everyone be avoiding RJs and ULCCs (who increased capacity 20%)?


This is a B6 thread and we’re talking about B6 challenges.

Also, striving for the mean is a pretty crappy strategy. If B6 and it’s supporters act like they’re the best, they should have a plan to be the best, not just as bad as everyone else.


What's wrong with comparing JetBlue operations to others? Is it weakening your argument so you're saying don't compare? Hearing gripes from some mostly disgruntled employees that they themselves will not go out of their way to help JetBlue or run a better operation...and i'd be shocked if they said one good thing about the airline. Clearly their management is working on running a better operation (finally) so let's see how it shakes out. Kinda like unions... only feed them the bad news to make them triggered.


A comparison of actual performance is quite different than justifying a continued trend of crappy operations by saying we expect the other airlines to struggle too. B6 has long been below average in operational metrics. Fix it, rather than making excuses.
 
Abeam79
Posts: 627
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:16 am

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Wed Mar 30, 2022 1:44 pm

Things aren’t so peachy at delta either
https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/atlant ... IWLNMWTGY/
Or AA
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/air ... heres-why/
Or WN
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... risis.html

https://www.paddleyourownkanoo.com/2021 ... -saturday/
Remember all the holiday cancellations by delta and Alaska this past year? JetBlue yes ran some late flights but didn’t cancel over the holidays

https://www.newsweek.com/delta-air-line ... ve-1669097
My point….perspective. JetBlue isn’t in a vacuum with these issues.
 
T5towbar
Posts: 557
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:06 am

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Wed Mar 30, 2022 2:25 pm

STT757 wrote:
Abeam79 wrote:
trueblew wrote:
An acquaintance passed along to me news of major cuts from Newark this summer. Any details on the magnitude? I was told SAN & SEA were cut completely which seems quite curious. The competition isn't quite strong (Alaska have minimal POS in NYC and United is... United) and these markets seem like natural summertime destinations from NJ/Manhattan.

Heard that the new terminal now won’t be ready till the end of the year, it’s delayed and in order to put relief on the operation they temporarily suspended several markets and are to resume in the fall time period. Seems like they are seeing they need to be more realistic for the summer to run a smoother operation.


Which new terminal , EWR Terminal A? I haven't seen anything saying its delayed, in fact judging by my recent visit it's nearly ready for opening. This article from today, March 19, says it's on schedule for opening this Spring, 12 of the gates closest to the current Terminal A will not be ready until the end of the year.

https://constructionreviewonline.com/news/newark-terminal-a-project-at-ewr-nears-final-construction-phase



It's definitely going to be delayed. We were told that it won't open up till sometime after the fall of this year. As far as I know, they still haven't tested the interior workings of the terminal yet (ie: baggage systems and the all the stuff we can't see yet.) More and more jetways have been put up, so it's now up to 25 gates now. The area that the interior fuel tanks that have been placed has to be covered up and the concrete hardened around those gates. Demolition of A-1 is still going on, and they finally removed Gate 17. So all of the jetways are removed, along with the underground fuel tanks. I don't know if the asbestos remediation is completed yet, but he whole ground level of A-1 is now sheeted in plastic, and I hope that is one of the final stages before actual demo. A-1 has to go before the rest of the gates can be put up. It's been windy the last few days, and the dirt has been blowing all over the ramp. As far as I know and heard, the interior (passenger facing) parts of the new terminal has be going on without issue.
 
trueblew
Posts: 488
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:16 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Wed Mar 30, 2022 2:33 pm

Abeam79 wrote:
Things aren’t so peachy at delta either
https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/atlant ... IWLNMWTGY/
Or AA
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/air ... heres-why/
Or WN
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... risis.html

https://www.paddleyourownkanoo.com/2021 ... -saturday/
Remember all the holiday cancellations by delta and Alaska this past year? JetBlue yes ran some late flights but didn’t cancel over the holidays

https://www.newsweek.com/delta-air-line ... ve-1669097
My point….perspective. JetBlue isn’t in a vacuum with these issues.


Joanna Geraghty, is that you?

JetBlue have been in more or less a continually rolling IROP for some time now. Posting links of anecdotes from other airlines months ago and suggesting that makes it ok is a laughable misdirection. It seems you work for B6, but please don't take it personally. I'm certain you are not in charge of operations. But whomever is needs to make immediate and serious changes instead of making excuses. My point.... DL, AA, SW are not responsible for B6 operational mismanagement.
 
tphuang
Posts: 7259
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Wed Mar 30, 2022 3:26 pm

trueblew wrote:
Abeam79 wrote:
Things aren’t so peachy at delta either
https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/atlant ... IWLNMWTGY/
Or AA
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/air ... heres-why/
Or WN
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... risis.html

https://www.paddleyourownkanoo.com/2021 ... -saturday/
Remember all the holiday cancellations by delta and Alaska this past year? JetBlue yes ran some late flights but didn’t cancel over the holidays

https://www.newsweek.com/delta-air-line ... ve-1669097
My point….perspective. JetBlue isn’t in a vacuum with these issues.


Joanna Geraghty, is that you?

JetBlue have been in more or less a continually rolling IROP for some time now. Posting links of anecdotes from other airlines months ago and suggesting that makes it ok is a laughable misdirection. It seems you work for B6, but please don't take it personally. I'm certain you are not in charge of operations. But whomever is needs to make immediate and serious changes instead of making excuses. My point.... DL, AA, SW are not responsible for B6 operational mismanagement.


Again, nobody is saying they have a good operation or even an average operation. Joanna certainly is very lucky to still have a job. But do you have any evidence their otp would be worse this summer than it typically is? To the point that people should book away? Because as I said, their irop handling should be a lot better now than at anytime in their history due to the aa partnership.
 
trueblew
Posts: 488
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:16 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Wed Mar 30, 2022 3:33 pm

tphuang wrote:
trueblew wrote:
Abeam79 wrote:
Things aren’t so peachy at delta either
https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/atlant ... IWLNMWTGY/
Or AA
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/air ... heres-why/
Or WN
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... risis.html

https://www.paddleyourownkanoo.com/2021 ... -saturday/
Remember all the holiday cancellations by delta and Alaska this past year? JetBlue yes ran some late flights but didn’t cancel over the holidays

https://www.newsweek.com/delta-air-line ... ve-1669097
My point….perspective. JetBlue isn’t in a vacuum with these issues.


Joanna Geraghty, is that you?

JetBlue have been in more or less a continually rolling IROP for some time now. Posting links of anecdotes from other airlines months ago and suggesting that makes it ok is a laughable misdirection. It seems you work for B6, but please don't take it personally. I'm certain you are not in charge of operations. But whomever is needs to make immediate and serious changes instead of making excuses. My point.... DL, AA, SW are not responsible for B6 operational mismanagement.


Again, nobody is saying they have a good operation or even an average operation. Joanna certainly is very lucky to still have a job. But do you have any evidence their otp would be worse this summer than it typically is? To the point that people should book away? Because as I said, their irop handling should be a lot better now than at anytime in their history due to the aa partnership.


I wasn't the user suggesting people book away, and I have no specific knowledge--only that of recent and ongoing struggles--to make a projection toward the summer's operational reliability. Their IROP handling should be improved thanks to AA, but their mismanagement is causing IROPs as much as any external factors such as meteorology or ATC are.
 
Abeam79
Posts: 627
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:16 am

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Wed Mar 30, 2022 3:41 pm

trueblew wrote:
Abeam79 wrote:
Things aren’t so peachy at delta either
https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/atlant ... IWLNMWTGY/
Or AA
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/air ... heres-why/
Or WN
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... risis.html

https://www.paddleyourownkanoo.com/2021 ... -saturday/
Remember all the holiday cancellations by delta and Alaska this past year? JetBlue yes ran some late flights but didn’t cancel over the holidays

https://www.newsweek.com/delta-air-line ... ve-1669097
My point….perspective. JetBlue isn’t in a vacuum with these issues.


Joanna Geraghty, is that you?

JetBlue have been in more or less a continually rolling IROP for some time now. Posting links of anecdotes from other airlines months ago and suggesting that makes it ok is a laughable misdirection. It seems you work for B6, but please don't take it personally. I'm certain you are not in charge of operations. But whomever is needs to make immediate and serious changes instead of making excuses. My point.... DL, AA, SW are not responsible for B6 operational mismanagement.

Yes I'm her, I love lambasting myself on my own posts if you have read some of my past replies. :roll:
 
JoseSalazar
Posts: 848
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:18 am

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Thu Mar 31, 2022 3:13 am

http://jetblue-sucks.net/ In the last 2 days I’ve seen this and a similarly named Facebook group basically showing personal first hand accounts of the same sorta thing. I have no idea who is behind it, but it’s clear there is an issue. The summer of 2017 was the worst I’ve ever seen it anecdotally, but the last 12 months has given it a run for its money. I hope this summer is a bit better, but I’m not all that optimistic. Both the work groups’ and the passengers’ patience is wearing thin. They’ve rested on the laurels of their good hard product and good reputation for too long imo. Anyone can get away with it for a short period, but I think they are now at the point where they are driving business customers to delta and United, and as delta and especially United keep improving their hard products, jetblue is going to have a tough time retaining high-mid value customers and frequent flyers. I’m hopeful, but not all that optimistic, that they can turn things around to the degree they need to.
 
ASFlyer
Posts: 2062
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:25 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Thu Mar 31, 2022 5:28 am

Abeam79 wrote:
trueblew wrote:
Abeam79 wrote:
Things aren’t so peachy at delta either
https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/atlant ... IWLNMWTGY/
Or AA
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/air ... heres-why/
Or WN
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... risis.html

https://www.paddleyourownkanoo.com/2021 ... -saturday/
Remember all the holiday cancellations by delta and Alaska this past year? JetBlue yes ran some late flights but didn’t cancel over the holidays

https://www.newsweek.com/delta-air-line ... ve-1669097
My point….perspective. JetBlue isn’t in a vacuum with these issues.


Joanna Geraghty, is that you?

JetBlue have been in more or less a continually rolling IROP for some time now. Posting links of anecdotes from other airlines months ago and suggesting that makes it ok is a laughable misdirection. It seems you work for B6, but please don't take it personally. I'm certain you are not in charge of operations. But whomever is needs to make immediate and serious changes instead of making excuses. My point.... DL, AA, SW are not responsible for B6 operational mismanagement.

Yes I'm her, I love lambasting myself on my own posts if you have read some of my past replies. :roll:


hysterical that there are some people on this particular forum think the top senior management at one of the largest airlines in the country spend their off hours trolling an airline fan page. Or even more lunatic, that they have time to spend during their work day sitting on airliners.net looking for advice from wanna be airline CEO's.
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 2075
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Thu Mar 31, 2022 10:50 am

ASFlyer wrote:
Abeam79 wrote:
trueblew wrote:

Joanna Geraghty, is that you?

JetBlue have been in more or less a continually rolling IROP for some time now. Posting links of anecdotes from other airlines months ago and suggesting that makes it ok is a laughable misdirection. It seems you work for B6, but please don't take it personally. I'm certain you are not in charge of operations. But whomever is needs to make immediate and serious changes instead of making excuses. My point.... DL, AA, SW are not responsible for B6 operational mismanagement.

Yes I'm her, I love lambasting myself on my own posts if you have read some of my past replies. :roll:


hysterical that there are some people on this particular forum think the top senior management at one of the largest airlines in the country spend their off hours trolling an airline fan page. Or even more lunatic, that they have time to spend during their work day sitting on airliners.net looking for advice from wanna be airline CEO's.


The post is clearly a joke. Not sure why you feel the need to rant on an airline forum. I think we all know B6 could very likely have an operational meltdown this summer.
 
CaptCoolHand
Posts: 114
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:24 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Thu Mar 31, 2022 10:55 am

ASFlyer wrote:
Abeam79 wrote:
trueblew wrote:

Joanna Geraghty, is that you?

JetBlue have been in more or less a continually rolling IROP for some time now. Posting links of anecdotes from other airlines months ago and suggesting that makes it ok is a laughable misdirection. It seems you work for B6, but please don't take it personally. I'm certain you are not in charge of operations. But whomever is needs to make immediate and serious changes instead of making excuses. My point.... DL, AA, SW are not responsible for B6 operational mismanagement.

Yes I'm her, I love lambasting myself on my own posts if you have read some of my past replies. :roll:


hysterical that there are some people on this particular forum think the top senior management at one of the largest airlines in the country spend their off hours trolling an airline fan page. Or even more lunatic, that they have time to spend during their work day sitting on airliners.net looking for advice from wanna be airline CEO's.


I know it’s hard because it’s the internet and all. But some of you really need to learn sarcasm.

No where in that post should anyone believe that guy actually thinks that it’s “Joanna” posting. You all totally missed the point.
 
trueblew
Posts: 488
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:16 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Thu Mar 31, 2022 11:29 am

ASFlyer wrote:
Abeam79 wrote:
trueblew wrote:

Joanna Geraghty, is that you?

JetBlue have been in more or less a continually rolling IROP for some time now. Posting links of anecdotes from other airlines months ago and suggesting that makes it ok is a laughable misdirection. It seems you work for B6, but please don't take it personally. I'm certain you are not in charge of operations. But whomever is needs to make immediate and serious changes instead of making excuses. My point.... DL, AA, SW are not responsible for B6 operational mismanagement.

Yes I'm her, I love lambasting myself on my own posts if you have read some of my past replies. :roll:


hysterical that there are some people on this particular forum think the top senior management at one of the largest airlines in the country spend their off hours trolling an airline fan page. Or even more lunatic, that they have time to spend during their work day sitting on airliners.net looking for advice from wanna be airline CEO's.


I am a wee bit embarrassed for you.
 
SWALUV
Posts: 233
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:43 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Thu Mar 31, 2022 2:38 pm

I think all the airlines this summer are at strong risk for an operational meltdown. All three of the big legacies are stacked with weeks long training backlogs and cancelling dozens of flights per day because of staffing issues. Not to mention the regionals, some of which are operating 25% smaller than 2021 levels for the same month because there is no staffing.

Is B6 gonna have a tough time this summer? Yes. Is every other airline this summer likely to seen an operational breakdown given the right set of weather and staffing circumstances? Absolutely.

To think anything else is foolish.
 
cessna53996
Posts: 128
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:27 am

B6 Going to A223s on EYW-JFK/BOS

Thu Mar 31, 2022 10:21 pm

Starting tomorrow, B6 is swapping from E190 to A223 on both EYW flights. Flights end for the season on 5/1 and pick back up on 10/30.

This should be an interesting proof-of-concept with short runways for B6. If they can make a longer BOS/JFK-EYW work, I doubt BOS/JFK-ACK/MVY, JFK-HYA will have any issues with significantly less fuel on board.
 
evank516
Posts: 2439
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Thu Mar 31, 2022 10:24 pm

tphuang wrote:
Some PR from JetBlue today.
http://otp.investis.com/clients/us/jetb ... wsid=82232

Greeting the new mayor with talks of jobs and being New York's airline. Nothing like keeping the politicians happy.

Jshank83 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
First day of operation to MKE and MCI.

Here is the press release on MKE
http://otp.investis.com/clients/us/jetb ... wsid=82223

and MCI
https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/ ... 005065/en/


I am curious how bookings are going. I looked at seat maps today (I know it isn't 100% accurate) and MCI-BOS had 9 seats taken. MCI-JFK had 27ish. That obviously needs to pick up a bit.


We won't find out for a while. It's really hard to assess these things now that everyone is booking Basic economy. I do recall seeing that a lot of load factors on similar routes like BOS-IND/CMH in the 40s or 50s on RJ. So I would not be surprised if the initial load factors on A220 to not look too pretty. Especially since DL is making very baffling decisions of putting 3 A220 flights on BOS-MCI.


I'm still surprised DL made no competitive response to B6's JFK service in MCI. They're still doing 4 or 5 E715/CR9 on LGA-MCI. WN is adding a second LGA frequency in April, and AA has their 2 LGA frequencies on E-Jets.

hbernal1 wrote:
Iggy500 wrote:
Do you guys think it's possible to see B6 expanding in MCI and MKE? FLL, MCO, and LAX look like great choices, but I think it's safe to assume that anything they add out of MCO at this point wouldn't last long. We've already seen this with ATL, AUS, BWI, PHL, and SFO.

FLL and LAX I can see happening. For MCO, I think connecting FLL, bringing back RDU/SFO, and expanding to LAS/SAN makes more sense. Interestingly SFO-MCO didn’t even perform *that* badly (neither did RDU-MCO for that matter, though the yields weren’t too great either). It was a matter of being the planes back to the NEA hubs.

I’m particularly curious to see what routes B6 adds next from LAX. It’s been a while since they’ve added anything new from there.


Before they add new routes I'd like to see them add frequencies on their existing markets out of MCI and MKE. Right now they're doing 1x BOS and JFK from each. JFK should at least take a second frequency before they add a new route like LAX, MCO, or FLL. BOS I'm less concerned about because you can connect via JFK to BOS a little easier.
 
evank516
Posts: 2439
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: B6 Going to A223s on EYW-JFK/BOS

Thu Mar 31, 2022 10:31 pm

The switch was inevitable. I still think B6 should exercise options for the A221 for markets where the A223 may be too much plane, and for the case of short runways I think the A221 take off distance required at MTOW is 4,800 feet. I believe EYW is 5,076 or something with the displaced threshold, but the A220-100 wouldn't be at MTOW for JFK or BOS to EYW.
 
lat41
Posts: 816
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 12:23 pm

Re: B6 Going to A223s on EYW-JFK/BOS

Thu Mar 31, 2022 10:51 pm

With 6300' to work with and much cooler weather than EYW, I don't imagine Nantucket, of all of them, would pose a problem, for whatever the aircraft on short hops like those.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 11784
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: B6 Going to A223s on EYW-JFK/BOS

Fri Apr 01, 2022 12:16 am

evank516 wrote:
I still think B6 should exercise options for the A221 for markets where the A223 may be too much plane, and for the case of short runways I think the A221 take off distance required at MTOW is 4,800 feet.


They'll still have the E90s for a while at 100 seats.

How many routes can you identify where A223 takeoff performance is a problem (acknowledging that some hops are very short and will be carrying little fuel)? There are costs to fleet fragmentation.
 
halrudy
Posts: 45
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2020 6:36 pm

Re: B6 Going to A223s on EYW-JFK/BOS

Fri Apr 01, 2022 12:23 am

E190s will be out by 2026
 
N757ST
Posts: 1262
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 6:00 am

Re: B6 Going to A223s on EYW-JFK/BOS

Fri Apr 01, 2022 12:46 am

cessna53996 wrote:
Starting tomorrow, B6 is swapping from E190 to A223 on both EYW flights. Flights end for the season on 5/1 and pick back up on 10/30.

This should be an interesting proof-of-concept with short runways for B6. If they can make a longer BOS/JFK-EYW work, I doubt BOS/JFK-ACK/MVY, JFK-HYA will have any issues with significantly less fuel on board.



Theres a reason the A220 can't go into MVY, I forget if it is wingspan or weight, but its one of the two.

The A220-300 has very good runway performance, as far as I know B6 isn't preblocking seats northbound.
 
lat41
Posts: 816
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 12:23 pm

Re: B6 Going to A223s on EYW-JFK/BOS

Fri Apr 01, 2022 12:52 am

N757ST wrote:
cessna53996 wrote:
Starting tomorrow, B6 is swapping from E190 to A223 on both EYW flights. Flights end for the season on 5/1 and pick back up on 10/30.

This should be an interesting proof-of-concept with short runways for B6. If they can make a longer BOS/JFK-EYW work, I doubt BOS/JFK-ACK/MVY, JFK-HYA will have any issues with significantly less fuel on board.



Theres a reason the A220 can't go into MVY, I forget if it is wingspan or weight, but its one of the two.

The A220-300 has very good runway performance, as far as I know B6 isn't preblocking seats northbound.

Weight bearing capacity: MVY
PCN 29 /F/A/X/T
Single wheel: 65.0
Double wheel: 108.0
Double tandem: 185.0
 
Cory6188
Posts: 2766
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2004 12:29 am

Re: B6 Going to A223s on EYW-JFK/BOS

Fri Apr 01, 2022 1:09 am

The EYW terminal is going to be bursting at the seams with the increased pax load. The new terminal can't come soon enough!
 
tphuang
Posts: 7259
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: B6 Going to A223s on EYW-JFK/BOS

Fri Apr 01, 2022 1:44 am

Interesting. I saw them doing this for fall season. Didn't realize they are making the switch for spring season also.
 
WayexTDI
Posts: 3271
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: B6 Going to A223s on EYW-JFK/BOS

Fri Apr 01, 2022 1:54 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
evank516 wrote:
I still think B6 should exercise options for the A221 for markets where the A223 may be too much plane, and for the case of short runways I think the A221 take off distance required at MTOW is 4,800 feet.


They'll still have the E90s for a while at 100 seats.

How many routes can you identify where A223 takeoff performance is a problem (acknowledging that some hops are very short and will be carrying little fuel)? There are costs to fleet fragmentation.

Having a few A220-100s among a much bigger fleet of A220-300s will be much cheaper for B6 (or any other airline) than having A220-300s and A190s.
 
JoseSalazar
Posts: 848
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:18 am

Re: B6 Going to A223s on EYW-JFK/BOS

Fri Apr 01, 2022 4:54 am

Looks like they are blocking 35-40 seats. Seems like better revenue and cost than the 190 on that route from my amateur opinion. If they can fly 100 people to JFK/BOS for less gas than a 190 flying 60-80 people, it’s a no brainer, and probably no need for a -100.
 
N757ST
Posts: 1262
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 6:00 am

Re: B6 Going to A223s on EYW-JFK/BOS

Fri Apr 01, 2022 8:29 am

lat41 wrote:
N757ST wrote:
cessna53996 wrote:
Starting tomorrow, B6 is swapping from E190 to A223 on both EYW flights. Flights end for the season on 5/1 and pick back up on 10/30.

This should be an interesting proof-of-concept with short runways for B6. If they can make a longer BOS/JFK-EYW work, I doubt BOS/JFK-ACK/MVY, JFK-HYA will have any issues with significantly less fuel on board.



Theres a reason the A220 can't go into MVY, I forget if it is wingspan or weight, but its one of the two.

The A220-300 has very good runway performance, as far as I know B6 isn't preblocking seats northbound.

Weight bearing capacity: MVY
PCN 29 /F/A/X/T
Single wheel: 65.0
Double wheel: 108.0
Double tandem: 185.0



So weight. There’s no usable payload on the a220-300 at 108.0 max. I know very little about the -100 but I’m guessing there’s not much there either, not that an airline like B6 will consider adding a variant for a couple seasonal airports. Thanks, I knew it was one of the two but I hadn’t remembered which one.

I’d guess in ‘26 MVY goes away and cape air takes over or the airport makes improvements to increase the weight allowed.
 
silentbob
Posts: 1682
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 1:26 pm

Re: B6 Going to A223s on EYW-JFK/BOS

Fri Apr 01, 2022 10:11 am

Have the 190s had significant weight restrictions on those routes?

Cory6188 wrote:
The EYW terminal is going to be bursting at the seams with the increased pax load. The new terminal can't come soon enough!

From what I've seen, the new terminal is only going to have six gates. That isn't going to help with all the ramp congestion.
 
Chuska
Posts: 735
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 4:59 pm

Re: B6 Going to A223s on EYW-JFK/BOS

Fri Apr 01, 2022 10:46 am

B6 switching to an A220-300 on JFK-ABQ on June 9. Must be ok for a high altitude (5352 ft) and long haul takeoff from ABQ. 13000 ft runway and temperatures in June for a midnight departure in the 80's.
 
airbazar
Posts: 10997
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: B6 Going to A223s on EYW-JFK/BOS

Fri Apr 01, 2022 12:01 pm

I wonder what its performance would be out of JAC and if we can expect an announcement for JAC-BOS/JFK.
The runway there at 6,300ft is longer than EYW but it's also at ~6500ft of elevation.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 11784
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: B6 Going to A223s on EYW-JFK/BOS

Fri Apr 01, 2022 12:50 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
evank516 wrote:
I still think B6 should exercise options for the A221 for markets where the A223 may be too much plane, and for the case of short runways I think the A221 take off distance required at MTOW is 4,800 feet.


They'll still have the E90s for a while at 100 seats.

How many routes can you identify where A223 takeoff performance is a problem (acknowledging that some hops are very short and will be carrying little fuel)? There are costs to fleet fragmentation.

Having a few A220-100s among a much bigger fleet of A220-300s will be much cheaper for B6 (or any other airline) than having A220-300s and A190s.


halrudy wrote:
E190s will be out by 2026


I'm not suggesting they keep a few 190s for this type of work (work that nobody here bothered to scope out, BTW). The E190s aren't all going away in the blink of an eye.

This is common a.net shiny objects fascination. There's a capability - everybody should buy it! Posters too often reach a conclusion before outlining the uses and frequencies with possible benefits and costs.
 
WayexTDI
Posts: 3271
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: B6 Going to A223s on EYW-JFK/BOS

Fri Apr 01, 2022 2:27 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

They'll still have the E90s for a while at 100 seats.

How many routes can you identify where A223 takeoff performance is a problem (acknowledging that some hops are very short and will be carrying little fuel)? There are costs to fleet fragmentation.

Having a few A220-100s among a much bigger fleet of A220-300s will be much cheaper for B6 (or any other airline) than having A220-300s and A190s.


halrudy wrote:
E190s will be out by 2026


I'm not suggesting they keep a few 190s for this type of work (work that nobody here bothered to scope out, BTW). The E190s aren't all going away in the blink of an eye.

This is common a.net shiny objects fascination. There's a capability - everybody should buy it! Posters too often reach a conclusion before outlining the uses and frequencies with possible benefits and costs.

That's not what I said.
There is also a fascination on a.net that the smaller variant of any aircraft is useless because it is more expensive to operate and costs a lot of money to maintain; while usually more expensive PER SEAT to operate, the smaller variants of a family shares most of its parts and maintenance with the bigger variants (hence not costing more on a per-aircraft-basis) but is sometimes necessary for some markets/airports (think London City for example).
 
BlueBaller
Posts: 204
Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:07 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Fri Apr 01, 2022 3:26 pm

BOS-LON announcement happening on Tuesday.

LR will be in Boston doing crewmember promotional tours from 0800-0930.

Can’t think of a more obvious platform to debut the news.
 
Wneast
Posts: 1714
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Fri Apr 01, 2022 6:09 pm

BlueBaller wrote:
BOS-LON announcement happening on Tuesday.

LR will be in Boston doing crewmember promotional tours from 0800-0930.

Can’t think of a more obvious platform to debut the news.

Is this for real or a joke.
 
ScottB
Posts: 7954
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Fri Apr 01, 2022 6:47 pm

evank516 wrote:
I'm still surprised DL made no competitive response to B6's JFK service in MCI. They're still doing 4 or 5 E715/CR9 on LGA-MCI. WN is adding a second LGA frequency in April, and AA has their 2 LGA frequencies on E-Jets.


What sort of "response" would you expect from DL? 4-5x daily on LGA-MCI is a far superior schedule to the airport which is preferred for business travel. They've got a domestic F cabin on all flights for those who choose to purchase it or frequent flyers who get upgraded.
 
rraver1114
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2022 2:00 am

Re: B6 Going to A223s on EYW-JFK/BOS

Fri Apr 01, 2022 6:58 pm

silentbob wrote:
Have the 190s had significant weight restrictions on those routes?

Cory6188 wrote:
The EYW terminal is going to be bursting at the seams with the increased pax load. The new terminal can't come soon enough!

From what I've seen, the new terminal is only going to have six gates. That isn't going to help with all the ramp congestion.



They are supposed to have 3-4 remote gates along with the 6.
 
BlueBaller
Posts: 204
Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:07 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Fri Apr 01, 2022 7:31 pm

Wneast wrote:
BlueBaller wrote:
BOS-LON announcement happening on Tuesday.

LR will be in Boston doing crewmember promotional tours from 0800-0930.

Can’t think of a more obvious platform to debut the news.

Is this for real or a joke.


The BOS - EU qualified pilots were awarded training dates earlier this week, I think it all aligns with the recent news regarding slots and the fact that summer launch dates need to be announced before too much longer.
 
Wneast
Posts: 1714
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Fri Apr 01, 2022 7:37 pm

BlueBaller wrote:
Wneast wrote:
BlueBaller wrote:
BOS-LON announcement happening on Tuesday.

LR will be in Boston doing crewmember promotional tours from 0800-0930.

Can’t think of a more obvious platform to debut the news.

Is this for real or a joke.


The BOS - EU qualified pilots were awarded training dates earlier this week, I think it all aligns with the recent news regarding slots and the fact that summer launch dates need to be announced before too much longer.

That’s what I was thinking
 
B6BOSfan
Posts: 153
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:11 am

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Sat Apr 02, 2022 1:18 am

Wneast wrote:
BlueBaller wrote:
Wneast wrote:
Is this for real or a joke.


The BOS - EU qualified pilots were awarded training dates earlier this week, I think it all aligns with the recent news regarding slots and the fact that summer launch dates need to be announced before too much longer.

That’s what I was thinking


Media invites out for Tuesday morning event at Logan. A321LR will be in for modeling for the cameras. Finally will get that long-awaited Boston/London announcement.
 
tphuang
Posts: 7259
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Sat Apr 02, 2022 12:35 pm

Flying out of ewr terminal b this morning, looks like JetBlue has all their international departures here. Quite a few people in the line for a Saturday morning. I also see Porter here. I wonder if the two airlines will be able to connect or code share on more flights here given JetBlue's expected larger presence at ewr once they are better staffed .

Also, Porter operated 14 flights a day from ewr pre covid. They are definitely not at that level now. Based on the transborder booking numbers, they probably can't operate that many flights profitably for a while. I wonder if JetBlue can approach Porter for a couple of their runway times.
 
trueblew
Posts: 488
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:16 pm

Re: B6 Going to A223s on EYW-JFK/BOS

Sat Apr 02, 2022 12:49 pm

halrudy wrote:
E190s will be out by 2026


Perhaps it's just me, but I always find it funny when people state so matter-of-factly when the E190s will be retired. JetBlue were planning to exit them from the fleet one-for-one as replacement A220s came on line. Then they were due to stay around in "batches." Then they were considered for cabin refreshes to extend their life in order to service smaller markets and make up for delivery delays. Now they are to be retired by 2026. If that timeline isn't revised yet again I'll be surprised. But anyone who takes a JetBlue timeline on anything, much less a scheduled departure time, as gospel is placing more faith in JetBlue than JetBlue deserve.

In summary, who actually knows when the E190s will be retired? No one. Not until we see tangible evidence of them leaving the fleet.
 
N757ST
Posts: 1262
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 6:00 am

Re: B6 Going to A223s on EYW-JFK/BOS

Sat Apr 02, 2022 2:10 pm

Chuska wrote:
B6 switching to an A220-300 on JFK-ABQ on June 9. Must be ok for a high altitude (5352 ft) and long haul takeoff from ABQ. 13000 ft runway and temperatures in June for a midnight departure in the 80's.



The a220-300 has superior runway performance then the a320, it’ll be absolutely fine.
 
N757ST
Posts: 1262
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 6:00 am

Re: B6 Going to A223s on EYW-JFK/BOS

Sat Apr 02, 2022 2:14 pm

trueblew wrote:
halrudy wrote:
E190s will be out by 2026


Perhaps it's just me, but I always find it funny when people state so matter-of-factly when the E190s will be retired. JetBlue were planning to exit them from the fleet one-for-one as replacement A220s came on line. Then they were due to stay around in "batches." Then they were considered for cabin refreshes to extend their life in order to service smaller markets and make up for delivery delays. Now they are to be retired by 2026. If that timeline isn't revised yet again I'll be surprised. But anyone who takes a JetBlue timeline on anything, much less a scheduled departure time, as gospel is placing more faith in JetBlue than JetBlue deserve.

In summary, who actually knows when the E190s will be retired? No one. Not until we see tangible evidence of them leaving the fleet.



Unless there is a massive correction in the price of fuel, the e90 will be gone sooner rather then later. B6 would accelerate their exit if they could get more a220s. Though going forward the chick point of bringing more a220s onboard might be training capacity. It is going to be very difficult to bring on 26 aircraft worth of new hires, transitions, and upgrades with only 2 simulators up and running. I know more are on order, but Orlando not Mobile is likely the limitation at that point.
 
User avatar
FLALEFTY
Posts: 1404
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:33 am

Re: B6 Going to A223s on EYW-JFK/BOS

Sat Apr 02, 2022 4:40 pm

N757ST wrote:
trueblew wrote:
halrudy wrote:
E190s will be out by 2026


Perhaps it's just me, but I always find it funny when people state so matter-of-factly when the E190s will be retired. JetBlue were planning to exit them from the fleet one-for-one as replacement A220s came on line. Then they were due to stay around in "batches." Then they were considered for cabin refreshes to extend their life in order to service smaller markets and make up for delivery delays. Now they are to be retired by 2026. If that timeline isn't revised yet again I'll be surprised. But anyone who takes a JetBlue timeline on anything, much less a scheduled departure time, as gospel is placing more faith in JetBlue than JetBlue deserve.

In summary, who actually knows when the E190s will be retired? No one. Not until we see tangible evidence of them leaving the fleet.



Unless there is a massive correction in the price of fuel, the e90 will be gone sooner rather then later. B6 would accelerate their exit if they could get more a220s. Though going forward the chick point of bringing more a220s onboard might be training capacity. It is going to be very difficult to bring on 26 aircraft worth of new hires, transitions, and upgrades with only 2 simulators up and running. I know more are on order, but Orlando not Mobile is likely the limitation at that point.


http://blueir.investproductions.com/inv ... -150021707

Here's is JetBlue's recent announcement (February 2022) ordering 30 more Airbus A220s. A key quote from the announcement supports your post:

"Future of the Fleet

JetBlue’s first A220 aircraft arrived in December 2020 and the airline is on track to take delivery of its ninth A220 this month. Nine more are scheduled for delivery in 2022, followed by another 21 in 2023. Ultimately, these A220s will replace the airline’s E190s, with the last E190 exiting in 2026.

JetBlue’s initial order for 60 A220 aircraft was announced in July 2018."


JoseSalazar wrote:
Looks like they are blocking 35-40 seats. Seems like better revenue and cost than the 190 on that route from my amateur opinion. If they can fly 100 people to JFK/BOS for less gas than a 190 flying 60-80 people, it’s a no brainer, and probably no need for a -100.


Makes sense that the A223 will burn less fuel than the E190 on the BOS-EYW-BOS route. But would they really need to block seats on this route (roughly 1,400 sm) ? It probably should be well under MTOW, even if at a full-up 140 seats. Just wondering...
 
User avatar
aemoreira1981
Posts: 4122
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: B6 Going to A223s on EYW-JFK/BOS

Sat Apr 02, 2022 6:14 pm

cessna53996 wrote:
Starting tomorrow, B6 is swapping from E190 to A223 on both EYW flights. Flights end for the season on 5/1 and pick back up on 10/30.

This should be an interesting proof-of-concept with short runways for B6. If they can make a longer BOS/JFK-EYW work, I doubt BOS/JFK-ACK/MVY, JFK-HYA will have any issues with significantly less fuel on board.


The problem there wouldn't be fuel...it may be apron space.
 
marcogr12
Posts: 672
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:36 pm

Re: B6 Going to A223s on EYW-JFK/BOS

Sat Apr 02, 2022 7:30 pm

Wouldn't the A221 be also useful for wintertime when demand falls and for thinner routes of longer range than an E190?The A221 has a range of 6350km, very close to A223's and with a 100-125 pax capacity it could replace the E190s on a lot of routes and open up new ones where both the A221/223 can be used interchangeably depending on demand/period

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