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Midwestindy
Posts: 7108
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Fri May 13, 2022 7:09 pm

Abeam79 wrote:
Wneast wrote:
Watch JetBlue get bought they just cut and cut and seem to be in desperate need of another airline.

To be fair every airline cut, Jetblue just was way over bullish on their growth of +10-15% more ASM's above 2019 while everyone else except for the ULCC's are still well below 2019 levels. They will pretty much be AT 2019 levels at this point, still way ahead of their peers. They are not "desperate need of another airline" they are being strategic in making a buy when the market is at a very low pricing point coupled with a good time to get additional resources. They were clear if they don't succeed in the spirit purchase then they will continue growing via future deliveries and purchasing more aircraft, it will just take longer.
Spirit and Alaska also cut back. Lets not all get over dramatic on this


Unlike some of the other airlines though, B6 has ~10% more aircraft than it did in 2019.

AS for example is smaller fleet wise than pre-covid, and B6 and AS are operating nearly the same % of their June 2019 schedule... (92% vs. 89%)
 
SESGDL
Posts: 3169
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:25 am

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Fri May 13, 2022 7:45 pm

Abeam79 wrote:
Wneast wrote:
Watch JetBlue get bought they just cut and cut and seem to be in desperate need of another airline.

To be fair every airline cut, Jetblue just was way over bullish on their growth of +10-15% more ASM's above 2019 while everyone else except for the ULCC's are still well below 2019 levels. They will pretty much be AT 2019 levels at this point, still way ahead of their peers. They are not "desperate need of another airline" they are being strategic in making a buy when the market is at a very low pricing point coupled with a good time to get additional resources. They were clear if they don't succeed in the spirit purchase then they will continue growing via future deliveries and purchasing more aircraft, it will just take longer.
Spirit and Alaska also cut back. Lets not all get over dramatic on this


Take off the rose colored glasses. B6 is in trouble. Its operations are a disaster and its bases are in competitive and delay prone airports, which will only get worse. The NEA and now a proposed merger are signs that B6 management feels it can’t be successful on its own. Its stand-alone plan is seeming less and less viable as time goes on, especially now that we’re facing down a possible recession. I don’t see B6 existing as it does today in 5 years. It will either be taken over by AA or merge with AS (or some other creative combination).

Jeremy
 
hbernal1
Posts: 259
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Sat May 14, 2022 2:05 am

So here are the cuts:

https://paxex.aero/jetblue-summer-2022- ... aign=21482

Partially suspended:
BDL-CUN
BDL-TPA
BOS-ROC
FLL-AUS
FLL-BNA
FLL-MSY
FLL-PHL
FLL-PHX
FLL-SAN
LAX-CUN
MCO-NAS
RDU-CUN
TPA-CUN

Extended cuts through rest of summer:
BDL-PBI
BOS-SJC
FLL-ATL
FLL-BQN
FLL-BUF
LAX-RIC
LAX-SEA
MCO-SYR

BOS-YVR also not launching this year, instead will offer connection to JFK-YVR for BOS customers.

Wow, this doesn't look good at all. BDL/FLL/CUN got hit hard in this round of route suspensions... BDL only flying now to FLL/LAX/MCO/SJU and CUN will only be served through BOS/EWR/FLL/JFK/MCO for part of the summer (also, of note: BNA will only be served from JFK/LGA/BOS, AUS from JFK/BOS, and RDU from BOS/FLL/JFK). FLL loses a further 9 routes for at least part of the summer. I genuinely have no idea how B6 cannot get its act together with its operation - this has to be the third or fourth round of cuts for summer flying we've seen this year.
 
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chrisnh
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Sat May 14, 2022 3:34 pm

Wneast wrote:
Watch JetBlue get bought they just cut and cut and seem to be in desperate need of another airline.


If government approval of any merger is the goal, who would have the best chance of success in the B6 sweepstakes?
 
sxf24
Posts: 1957
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:22 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Sat May 14, 2022 4:00 pm

chrisnh wrote:
Wneast wrote:
Watch JetBlue get bought they just cut and cut and seem to be in desperate need of another airline.


If government approval of any merger is the goal, who would have the best chance of success in the B6 sweepstakes?


Probably WN. There’s very little additional concentration in slot restricted airports and it’d most certainly lead to unwinding of NEA. AS also has very little overlap, but I think there’d be too much cooperation with AA.

That said, I don’t see either WN or B6 wanting to combine. Both are better served pursuing their very different business models.
 
fastmover
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Sat May 14, 2022 4:04 pm

It’s always the same yet y’all talk in circles. JetBlue needs to get its operations under control they can’t keep going like this. Ok they cut back flights to stabilize stuff. Omg JetBlue is in trouble they are cutting flights.

JetBlue needs to do something different and get out of just the east coast. Ok they go to buy Spirit. Omg they can’t do that no no it won’t get approved and they can’t pull it off anyway they would be better as a stand alone.

Ok JetBlue is going to be a stand alone. Omg no they can’t keep up with the big guys they are too small to compete they need to merge or do something. Cool we have an NEA agreement that helps us in our largest base’s omg obviously management is failing look at this agreement.

I am the first one to agree with the operation issue but that is literally what they are doing. I hope it works but again we are far from the end of JetBlue.
 
AMALH747430
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Sat May 14, 2022 5:20 pm

fastmover wrote:
It’s always the same yet y’all talk in circles. JetBlue needs to get its operations under control they can’t keep going like this. Ok they cut back flights to stabilize stuff. Omg JetBlue is in trouble they are cutting flights.

JetBlue needs to do something different and get out of just the east coast. Ok they go to buy Spirit. Omg they can’t do that no no it won’t get approved and they can’t pull it off anyway they would be better as a stand alone.

Ok JetBlue is going to be a stand alone. Omg no they can’t keep up with the big guys they are too small to compete they need to merge or do something. Cool we have an NEA agreement that helps us in our largest base’s omg obviously management is failing look at this agreement.

I am the first one to agree with the operation issue but that is literally what they are doing. I hope it works but again we are far from the end of JetBlue.


I agree to a certain extent. The armchair CEOs on here tend to talk out of both sides of their mouths. However, instead of doing just one of those things (NEA, LAX, EWR, NK merger) they’re trying to do ALL of them which leads most outsiders to the conclusion that there just isn’t a cohesive strategy.

To me, EWR is too much right now. Focus on JFK and right the ship there before trying to over expand at another airport in the area. I get that there’s extra traffic to be captured in Newark but it doesn’t make sense when you can’t run a reliable operation at your main airport in the area.

I also think their pull back in Florida where they are traditionally strong is going to hurt them in the long run. It just seems like another abandoning of core markets to try a half hearted expansion elsewhere (namely EWR and LAX).

I can see wanting to buy NK and use that to expand out west or in the middle of the country. I also see the logic in the NEA (even though as a lawyer I see anti trust issues) to expand their footprint, but not both.

This isn’t an apples to apples comparison, and JetBlue in a MUCH better financial position, but in some ways B6 reminds me of BN at the end. Expanding too rapidly and biting off more than they can chew. Again it’s not a direct comparison, and I too believe that B6 is not anywhere close to going away. It just seems to me that they need to think more strategically and focus on reliability, shoring up their core markets, THEN try to expand.

One other thought. At the end of previous downturns, LCCs grew dramatically when things rebounded. WN and B6 both experienced growth spurts in the 9/11 recovery and the financial crisis recovery. WN also grew dramatically in the post Gulf War I era in the 90s. I think both airlines thought they could just dust off that old playbook and rapidly expand just like they did before. However, this time is so different that that simply won’t work.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Sat May 14, 2022 5:40 pm

Anyone know when the September/October schedule will be altered or slightly finalized? Would like to book with some confidence.
 
Abeam79
Posts: 608
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Sat May 14, 2022 5:53 pm

sxf24 wrote:
chrisnh wrote:
Wneast wrote:
Watch JetBlue get bought they just cut and cut and seem to be in desperate need of another airline.


If government approval of any merger is the goal, who would have the best chance of success in the B6 sweepstakes?


Probably WN. There’s very little additional concentration in slot restricted airports and it’d most certainly lead to unwinding of NEA. AS also has very little overlap, but I think there’d be too much cooperation with AA.

That said, I don’t see either WN or B6 wanting to combine. Both are better served pursuing their very different business models.

WN and B6 are too different companies. The moment for them to merge was over a decade ago. They have different philosophies in so many ways. B6 and AS seem the most to gain and serve a similar platform in certain ways. Would be more likely to get doj approval. But I don’t think B6 will try anything if they don’t succeed with NK until after the next election. If a Republican admin is elected there wouldn’t probably be as much M&A roadblocks
 
TYWoolman
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Sun May 15, 2022 11:45 am

Many B6 cuts are happening for a reason: Taking the AA stance that Delta is "yesterday's airline." It's no secret AS-AA-B6 saw the pandemic as a way to take advantage of capturing market share from the most profitable, which meant increasing flights in Delta strongholds: Florida, RDU, LAX (for B6). Current cuts are not a pilot issue, it's management flooding capacity at a time when all airline needed to stop the bleeding (by parking planes). Furthermore, I wonder if United still has its leisure point-to-point Florida to Northern U.S. routes started during pandemic that may have forced B6 to rethink Florida capacity (?)
And lastly, a decrease (temporary suspensions) in FLL service may help in less overlap in another NK merger attempt, or reveal to regulators heavier concentration there in a F9/NK tie-up.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Sun May 15, 2022 1:10 pm

TYWoolman wrote:
Many B6 cuts are happening for a reason: Taking the AA stance that Delta is "yesterday's airline." It's no secret AS-AA-B6 saw the pandemic as a way to take advantage of capturing market share from the most profitable, which meant increasing flights in Delta strongholds: Florida, RDU, LAX (for B6). Current cuts are not a pilot issue, it's management flooding capacity at a time when all airline needed to stop the bleeding (by parking planes). Furthermore, I wonder if United still has its leisure point-to-point Florida to Northern U.S. routes started during pandemic that may have forced B6 to rethink Florida capacity (?)
And lastly, a decrease (temporary suspensions) in FLL service may help in less overlap in another NK merger attempt, or reveal to regulators heavier concentration there in a F9/NK tie-up.


Not sure I follow the argument here....

Many of these route cuts have come from supposed B6 relative strongholds, BDL & FLL for example.

Not to mention, expanding geographically was the right move. Honestly not sure what you expect B6 to do with all the aircraft it has coming if not expand geographically. Not only do they need to expand given B6 is limited in its ability to grow BOS/NYC, but nationwide relevancy is important to win Northeast business contracts.

If it can't expand successfully expand outside of the Northeast, that suggests a problem with either its business model or mgmt team.
 
TYWoolman
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Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:24 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Sun May 15, 2022 8:21 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
Many B6 cuts are happening for a reason: Taking the AA stance that Delta is "yesterday's airline." It's no secret AS-AA-B6 saw the pandemic as a way to take advantage of capturing market share from the most profitable, which meant increasing flights in Delta strongholds: Florida, RDU, LAX (for B6). Current cuts are not a pilot issue, it's management flooding capacity at a time when all airline needed to stop the bleeding (by parking planes). Furthermore, I wonder if
United still has its leisure point-to-point Florida to Northern U.S. routes started during pandemic that may have forced B6 to rethink Florida capacity (?)
And lastly, a decrease (temporary suspensions) in FLL service may help in less overlap in another NK merger attempt, or reveal to regulators heavier concentration there in a F9/NK tie-up.


Not sure I follow the argument here....

Many of these route cuts have come from supposed B6 relative strongholds, BDL & FLL for example.

Not to mention, expanding geographically was the right move. Honestly not sure what you expect B6 to do with all the aircraft it has coming if not expand geographically. Not only do they need to expand given B6 is limited in its ability to grow BOS/NYC, but nationwide relevancy is important to win Northeast business contracts.

If it can't expand successfully expand outside of the Northeast, that suggests a problem with either its business model or mgmt team.


Well not sure that strategy was appropriate given the pandemic, when most airlines were scurrying to preserve what they could. Instead B6 thought it was healthful strategy to capture marketshare on Delta strongholds, when Delta itself cut back. Regardless of where that capacity is being taken out now, my point is that overcapacity seems to be affecting B6 more due to its frantic foray into unchartered territories during such a messed up time in airline history. Some airlines played the discipline approach and are in much better shape. Those tied at the AA hip not so much.
 
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Polot
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Sun May 15, 2022 8:45 pm

Abeam79 wrote:
sxf24 wrote:
chrisnh wrote:

If government approval of any merger is the goal, who would have the best chance of success in the B6 sweepstakes?


Probably WN. There’s very little additional concentration in slot restricted airports and it’d most certainly lead to unwinding of NEA. AS also has very little overlap, but I think there’d be too much cooperation with AA.

That said, I don’t see either WN or B6 wanting to combine. Both are better served pursuing their very different business models.

WN and B6 are too different companies. The moment for them to merge was over a decade ago. They have different philosophies in so many ways. B6 and AS seem the most to gain and serve a similar platform in certain ways. Would be more likely to get doj approval. But I don’t think B6 will try anything if they don’t succeed with NK until after the next election. If a Republican admin is elected there wouldn’t probably be as much M&A roadblocks

The biggest issue between a AS+B6 merger would be ego. I don’t see leadership/upper management at either airline wanting to step aside, and AS, with a market cap so much higher than B6’s, would be a difficult target for B6 to try a hostile takeover on (and I don’t see AS interested in going for B6).
 
sxf24
Posts: 1957
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:22 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Sun May 15, 2022 10:01 pm

Polot wrote:
Abeam79 wrote:
sxf24 wrote:

Probably WN. There’s very little additional concentration in slot restricted airports and it’d most certainly lead to unwinding of NEA. AS also has very little overlap, but I think there’d be too much cooperation with AA.

That said, I don’t see either WN or B6 wanting to combine. Both are better served pursuing their very different business models.

WN and B6 are too different companies. The moment for them to merge was over a decade ago. They have different philosophies in so many ways. B6 and AS seem the most to gain and serve a similar platform in certain ways. Would be more likely to get doj approval. But I don’t think B6 will try anything if they don’t succeed with NK until after the next election. If a Republican admin is elected there wouldn’t probably be as much M&A roadblocks

The biggest issue between a AS+B6 merger would be ego. I don’t see leadership/upper management at either airline wanting to step aside, and AS, with a market cap so much higher than B6’s, would be a difficult target for B6 to try a hostile takeover on (and I don’t see AS interested in going for B6).


In addition to ego, inconsistent product philosophies, and lack of synergies, I think there are serious antitrust issues with a AS-B6 merger. They can’t be OW members and maintain the NEA.

While a bicoastal powerhouse looks good on paper, we know from practice it doesn’t work as well.
 
tphuang
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Sun May 15, 2022 10:05 pm

TYWoolman wrote:
Many B6 cuts are happening for a reason: Taking the AA stance that Delta is "yesterday's airline." It's no secret AS-AA-B6 saw the pandemic as a way to take advantage of capturing market share from the most profitable, which meant increasing flights in Delta strongholds: Florida, RDU, LAX (for B6). Current cuts are not a pilot issue, it's management flooding capacity at a time when all airline needed to stop the bleeding (by parking planes). Furthermore, I wonder if United still has its leisure point-to-point Florida to Northern U.S. routes started during pandemic that may have forced B6 to rethink Florida capacity (?)
And lastly, a decrease (temporary suspensions) in FLL service may help in less overlap in another NK merger attempt, or reveal to regulators heavier concentration there in a F9/NK tie-up.


Current cuts are definitely a staffing issue. Maybe not necessarily a pilot issue, but there are non-pilot staffing also. They have a real staffing issue and clearly cannot operate the schedule they originally planned. They are cutting FLL, because that's the only place they can cut significantly while retaining their NYC schedule.

All of this stuff should be vary obvious.

back to the original topic. JetBlue needs new leadership. They will be fine if they had more competent leadership. The board's lack of decision making during this period is very discomforting for anyone that invests in JBLU If I was one of the bigger JBLU shareholders, I'd be actively asking the board on how they think Joanna and Alex can keep their jobs and turn operation around.

Having seen how some well run companies operate, JBLU unfortunately is held back by some very incompetent senior people on the operation/IT side of things.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Sun May 15, 2022 10:24 pm

TYWoolman wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
Many B6 cuts are happening for a reason: Taking the AA stance that Delta is "yesterday's airline." It's no secret AS-AA-B6 saw the pandemic as a way to take advantage of capturing market share from the most profitable, which meant increasing flights in Delta strongholds: Florida, RDU, LAX (for B6). Current cuts are not a pilot issue, it's management flooding capacity at a time when all airline needed to stop the bleeding (by parking planes). Furthermore, I wonder if
United still has its leisure point-to-point Florida to Northern U.S. routes started during pandemic that may have forced B6 to rethink Florida capacity (?)
And lastly, a decrease (temporary suspensions) in FLL service may help in less overlap in another NK merger attempt, or reveal to regulators heavier concentration there in a F9/NK tie-up.


Not sure I follow the argument here....

Many of these route cuts have come from supposed B6 relative strongholds, BDL & FLL for example.

Not to mention, expanding geographically was the right move. Honestly not sure what you expect B6 to do with all the aircraft it has coming if not expand geographically. Not only do they need to expand given B6 is limited in its ability to grow BOS/NYC, but nationwide relevancy is important to win Northeast business contracts.

If it can't expand successfully expand outside of the Northeast, that suggests a problem with either its business model or mgmt team.


Well not sure that strategy was appropriate given the pandemic, when most airlines were scurrying to preserve what they could. Instead B6 thought it was healthful strategy to capture marketshare on Delta strongholds, when Delta itself cut back. Regardless of where that capacity is being taken out now, my point is that overcapacity seems to be affecting B6 more due to its frantic foray into unchartered territories during such a messed up time in airline history. Some airlines played the discipline approach and are in much better shape. Those tied at the AA hip not so much.


B6 is/was operating at a higher level because they simply had more aircraft than they did before COVID. If your argument is that they should have retired more aircraft or cancelled already planned orders, how do you expect them to compete in the upcoming years?

If not grow then, then when? Seriously though, how would you go about growing the airline. 1-2% growth outside of NYC/BOS ain't gonna cut it anymore.

Also, It wasn't just capacity just for market share sake either, they grew because their core markets were impacted the worst by the COVID downturn in demand, they needed to grow elsewhere in order capture meaningful revenue. Comparing to an airline like DL is apples and oranges IMO.
 
laca773
Posts: 2129
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 10:28 pm

Additionally, could some of these FLL cuts also be because it’s the summer season when the weather in Florida is a like a bloody sauna, but demand picks back up once we go into Autumn & Winter. Demand must also play a factor here.
 
tphuang
Posts: 7188
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Thu May 26, 2022 8:25 pm

From this morning's 8K https://otp.tools.investis.com/clients/ ... F&hasPdf=1
Revenue expects to be up 16+% over 2019.
ASM up 2 to 3% over 2019.
CASM-ex up 15 to 17% over 2019 (still high)
fuel price at $4.08 instead of $3.79

I think with these changes, they are still likely to be losing money in Q2.
 
Blerg
Posts: 5651
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Fri May 27, 2022 5:54 am

If revenue is up around 16% and CASM is up 17% then their financial result should be similar to 2019?
 
tphuang
Posts: 7188
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Fri May 27, 2022 12:11 pm

They are expecting RASM to be up 20% in June vs 2019. April was really a disastrous month, so Q2 is likely to be not profitable, but May/June might be. They expect to grow in the low single digit in capacity for rest of the year. They are unsure about fall season demand. The fuel prices are really high, so we profitability is still hard.
 
Abeam79
Posts: 608
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:16 am

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Fri May 27, 2022 7:55 pm

Now I'm scratching my head on this article. Delta announced it is culling back the summer sched because of staffing issues also, and they seem to be having operational semi-meltdown on a daily basis cancelling around 150 flights today alone. And B6 is still scheduled to be bigger in Boston this summer, as i think they are, but this article says differently yet no new routes were brought up. This smells like a DL propaganda piece in order to stem the current news of its operational woes, or just published out at a bad time and when the article was initially set to be written there was no plan to cut summer schedules.
https://thepointsguy.com/news/delta-air ... bLqavsiYuQ
This article seems to be touching more of reality.
https://viewfromthewing.com/a-loss-of-r ... XnXzH8kiv0
Either way, B6 is focusing most of its resources in NYC/BOS so to me it seems like Delta will be 2nd (Or 3rd behind AA?) player in Boston, especially since they been talking about being #1 in Boston for years.
A side note, this also put more mud in the face to the DOJ on to the "Anti-competitive" along with spirit.
 
Abeam79
Posts: 608
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:16 am

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Mon May 30, 2022 5:39 pm

Interesting, I’m sure B6 will definitely be bidding for the additional Lhr slots
https://viewfromthewing.com/aeroflot-fo ... rmanently/
 
tphuang
Posts: 7188
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Mon May 30, 2022 11:44 pm

Abeam79 wrote:
Interesting, I’m sure B6 will definitely be bidding for the additional Lhr slots
https://viewfromthewing.com/aeroflot-fo ... rmanently/


Yes, if they can score 2 slot pairs, that would be very good news.
 
jfk777
Posts: 7637
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Tue May 31, 2022 12:28 am

Moscow was flown at various times of the day since its only about 4 hours away. Most Aeroflot slots at LHR are not well timed for early morning arrivals. One pair may be timely for Atlantic operations, it seems these slots would be flown from the Middle East or Asia where operations could be spread across the day. Will be interesting to see how much they sell for ?
 
sxf24
Posts: 1957
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:22 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Tue May 31, 2022 1:26 pm

JetBlue delays Boston-London launch due to A321 delivery delays: https://paxex.aero/jetblue-boston-londo ... aign=21541

LGW from 19 July to 4 August
LHR from 22 August to 20 September

There’s usually good margin in delivery schedules for new flights. Either B6’s buffer was too small or Airbus is quite late. Either way, there will be lots of unhappy passengers being rebooked.
 
USAirKid
Posts: 1290
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Tue May 31, 2022 6:21 pm

sxf24 wrote:
JetBlue delays Boston-London launch due to A321 delivery delays: https://paxex.aero/jetblue-boston-londo ... aign=21541

LGW from 19 July to 4 August
LHR from 22 August to 20 September

There’s usually good margin in delivery schedules for new flights. Either B6’s buffer was too small or Airbus is quite late. Either way, there will be lots of unhappy passengers being rebooked.


And lots of happy competitors with pricey reaccomadation fares.
 
Aliqiout
Posts: 683
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:10 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Tue May 31, 2022 6:56 pm

laca773 wrote:
Additionally, could some of these FLL cuts also be because it’s the summer season when the weather in Florida is a like a bloody sauna, but demand picks back up once we go into Autumn & Winter. Demand must also play a factor here.

That's not how scheduling works. A "cut" is either a cut from what they were already selling, or a cut compared to the same time of year the year before. Airlines understand there is a seasonal variations in demand and don't panic every year and start cutting flights that they were selling because the seasonal drop in demand was a surprise.
 
tphuang
Posts: 7188
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Tue May 31, 2022 6:58 pm

USAirKid wrote:
sxf24 wrote:
JetBlue delays Boston-London launch due to A321 delivery delays: https://paxex.aero/jetblue-boston-londo ... aign=21541

LGW from 19 July to 4 August
LHR from 22 August to 20 September

There’s usually good margin in delivery schedules for new flights. Either B6’s buffer was too small or Airbus is quite late. Either way, there will be lots of unhappy passengers being rebooked.


And lots of happy competitors with pricey reaccomadation fares.


the most obvious move would be to re-accommodate on AA's BOS-LHR flight.
 
Aliqiout
Posts: 683
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:10 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Tue May 31, 2022 7:00 pm

sxf24 wrote:
Polot wrote:
Abeam79 wrote:
WN and B6 are too different companies. The moment for them to merge was over a decade ago. They have different philosophies in so many ways. B6 and AS seem the most to gain and serve a similar platform in certain ways. Would be more likely to get doj approval. But I don’t think B6 will try anything if they don’t succeed with NK until after the next election. If a Republican admin is elected there wouldn’t probably be as much M&A roadblocks

The biggest issue between a AS+B6 merger would be ego. I don’t see leadership/upper management at either airline wanting to step aside, and AS, with a market cap so much higher than B6’s, would be a difficult target for B6 to try a hostile takeover on (and I don’t see AS interested in going for B6).


In addition to ego, inconsistent product philosophies, and lack of synergies, I think there are serious antitrust issues with a AS-B6 merger. They can’t be OW members and maintain the NEA.

While a bicoastal powerhouse looks good on paper, we know from practice it doesn’t work as well.

Why do people keep bringing up the NEA in conjunction with an AS-B6 merger. AS and B6 management have their shortcomings, but they are not so ignorant as to enter into merger talks without assuming the new airline will not be able to rely on the NEA.

Besides the obvious government concerns AA will loose interest in the NEA quickly when confronted with a combined AS-B6.
 
SoCalFlyer
Posts: 158
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2014 12:16 am

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Tue May 31, 2022 7:13 pm

Random question, but why did Hawaiian move from T5 to T4? Was it because it the construction that’s about to happen on the expansion of T5, or something else? That seems to be a pain in the butt for customers having to connect.
 
sxf24
Posts: 1957
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:22 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Tue May 31, 2022 7:36 pm

tphuang wrote:
USAirKid wrote:
sxf24 wrote:
JetBlue delays Boston-London launch due to A321 delivery delays: https://paxex.aero/jetblue-boston-londo ... aign=21541

LGW from 19 July to 4 August
LHR from 22 August to 20 September

There’s usually good margin in delivery schedules for new flights. Either B6’s buffer was too small or Airbus is quite late. Either way, there will be lots of unhappy passengers being rebooked.


And lots of happy competitors with pricey reaccomadation fares.


the most obvious move would be to re-accommodate on AA's BOS-LHR flight.


Hence my reference to unhappy passengers.
 
maverick4002
Posts: 570
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:14 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Tue May 31, 2022 8:59 pm

SoCalFlyer wrote:
Random question, but why did Hawaiian move from T5 to T4? Was it because it the construction that’s about to happen on the expansion of T5, or something else? That seems to be a pain in the butt for customers having to connect.


Didn't someone comment a few pages back that B6 was very sloppy in handling the flights so they left? Or was that another airline. I am sure someone here can confirm.
 
jetbluefan1
Posts: 3316
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 8:39 am

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Tue May 31, 2022 9:54 pm

maverick4002 wrote:
SoCalFlyer wrote:
Random question, but why did Hawaiian move from T5 to T4? Was it because it the construction that’s about to happen on the expansion of T5, or something else? That seems to be a pain in the butt for customers having to connect.


Didn't someone comment a few pages back that B6 was very sloppy in handling the flights so they left? Or was that another airline. I am sure someone here can confirm.


I think that was TAP, but I presume the same is the case for Hawaiian. I also believe that B6 moved around some flights due to overcrowding in the ticketing hall and lack of gates during certain times. So it's very possible that B6 asked TAP/Hawaiian to temporarily move.

sxf24 wrote:
JetBlue delays Boston-London launch due to A321 delivery delays: https://paxex.aero/jetblue-boston-londo ... aign=21541

LGW from 19 July to 4 August
LHR from 22 August to 20 September

There’s usually good margin in delivery schedules for new flights. Either B6’s buffer was too small or Airbus is quite late. Either way, there will be lots of unhappy passengers being rebooked.


This is really unfortunate and yet another black eye for B6, right in time for the busy summer travel season when transatlantic airfares are already through the roof.

I flew Mint JFK-LHR/LGW-JFK back in November, and it was a lovely experience, but JetBlue's continued reliability and scheduling issues are keeping me far away from booking any further trips for the foreseeable future. I am going to London again this fall and will be booking with BA, DL, or UA. While all carriers are having issues right now, at least they'll have multiple options to get me to London if the flight I book ends up getting cancelled...and, frankly, I have significant doubts about B6's ability to seamlessly re-accommodate passengers on AA. Their IT is not at all integrated, as I very unfortunately learned when trying to fly Mint LAX-JFK last month on an AA-ticketed flight. Total chaos that resulted in me buying a $700 walk-up (economy) ticket on DL just to get back to NY.
 
FlyinRabbit88
Posts: 169
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2016 4:16 am

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Tue May 31, 2022 10:19 pm

maverick4002 wrote:
SoCalFlyer wrote:
Random question, but why did Hawaiian move from T5 to T4? Was it because it the construction that’s about to happen on the expansion of T5, or something else? That seems to be a pain in the butt for customers having to connect.


Didn't someone comment a few pages back that B6 was very sloppy in handling the flights so they left? Or was that another airline. I am sure someone here can confirm.


Heard that the Hawaiian flight takes up too of a “time block” since it uses an international gate at T5 and the demand for the international gate for jetblue arrivals that they had to move the Hawaiian flight to T4. They plan to welcome back to T5 once things have calmed down or once the new terminal is completed.
Take that for what it’s worth I guess.
 
tphuang
Posts: 7188
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Wed Jun 01, 2022 1:45 pm

SoCalFlyer wrote:
Random question, but why did Hawaiian move from T5 to T4? Was it because it the construction that’s about to happen on the expansion of T5, or something else? That seems to be a pain in the butt for customers having to connect.


Given all the added flights from JetBlue at JFK, they might just want to have all the partners moved to T4.
 
fastmover
Posts: 708
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:37 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Wed Jun 01, 2022 2:56 pm

jetbluefan1 wrote:
maverick4002 wrote:
SoCalFlyer wrote:
Random question, but why did Hawaiian move from T5 to T4? Was it because it the construction that’s about to happen on the expansion of T5, or something else? That seems to be a pain in the butt for customers having to connect.


Didn't someone comment a few pages back that B6 was very sloppy in handling the flights so they left? Or was that another airline. I am sure someone here can confirm.


I think that was TAP, but I presume the same is the case for Hawaiian. I also believe that B6 moved around some flights due to overcrowding in the ticketing hall and lack of gates during certain times. So it's very possible that B6 asked TAP/Hawaiian to temporarily move.

sxf24 wrote:
JetBlue delays Boston-London launch due to A321 delivery delays: https://paxex.aero/jetblue-boston-londo ... aign=21541

LGW from 19 July to 4 August
LHR from 22 August to 20 September

There’s usually good margin in delivery schedules for new flights. Either B6’s buffer was too small or Airbus is quite late. Either way, there will be lots of unhappy passengers being rebooked.


This is really unfortunate and yet another black eye for B6, right in time for the busy summer travel season when transatlantic airfares are already through the roof.

I flew Mint JFK-LHR/LGW-JFK back in November, and it was a lovely experience, but JetBlue's continued reliability and scheduling issues are keeping me far away from booking any further trips for the foreseeable future. I am going to London again this fall and will be booking with BA, DL, or UA. While all carriers are having issues right now, at least they'll have multiple options to get me to London if the flight I book ends up getting cancelled...and, frankly, I have significant doubts about B6's ability to seamlessly re-accommodate passengers on AA. Their IT is not at all integrated, as I very unfortunately learned when trying to fly Mint LAX-JFK last month on an AA-ticketed flight. Total chaos that resulted in me buying a $700 walk-up (economy) ticket on DL just to get back to NY.



It’s a delay from Airbus I doubt JetBlue is happy either. Also they do a good job of protecting London stuff. Dedicated crews and planes it’s the one area of the operation that does well. So I wouldn’t worry there.
 
Abeam79
Posts: 608
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:16 am

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Wed Jun 01, 2022 3:47 pm

fastmover wrote:
jetbluefan1 wrote:
maverick4002 wrote:

Didn't someone comment a few pages back that B6 was very sloppy in handling the flights so they left? Or was that another airline. I am sure someone here can confirm.


I think that was TAP, but I presume the same is the case for Hawaiian. I also believe that B6 moved around some flights due to overcrowding in the ticketing hall and lack of gates during certain times. So it's very possible that B6 asked TAP/Hawaiian to temporarily move.

sxf24 wrote:
JetBlue delays Boston-London launch due to A321 delivery delays: https://paxex.aero/jetblue-boston-londo ... aign=21541

LGW from 19 July to 4 August
LHR from 22 August to 20 September

There’s usually good margin in delivery schedules for new flights. Either B6’s buffer was too small or Airbus is quite late. Either way, there will be lots of unhappy passengers being rebooked.


This is really unfortunate and yet another black eye for B6, right in time for the busy summer travel season when transatlantic airfares are already through the roof.

I flew Mint JFK-LHR/LGW-JFK back in November, and it was a lovely experience, but JetBlue's continued reliability and scheduling issues are keeping me far away from booking any further trips for the foreseeable future. I am going to London again this fall and will be booking with BA, DL, or UA. While all carriers are having issues right now, at least they'll have multiple options to get me to London if the flight I book ends up getting cancelled...and, frankly, I have significant doubts about B6's ability to seamlessly re-accommodate passengers on AA. Their IT is not at all integrated, as I very unfortunately learned when trying to fly Mint LAX-JFK last month on an AA-ticketed flight. Total chaos that resulted in me buying a $700 walk-up (economy) ticket on DL just to get back to NY.



It’s a delay from Airbus I doubt JetBlue is happy either. Also they do a good job of protecting London stuff. Dedicated crews and planes it’s the one area of the operation that does well. So I wouldn’t worry there.

This! And the London ontime and dispatch reliability is almost near perfect, into the upper 90's. Even the legacy guys don't have dedicated cabin crews for just transatlantic
 
LHUSA
Posts: 900
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:15 am

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Wed Jun 01, 2022 4:41 pm

Abeam79 wrote:
fastmover wrote:
jetbluefan1 wrote:

I think that was TAP, but I presume the same is the case for Hawaiian. I also believe that B6 moved around some flights due to overcrowding in the ticketing hall and lack of gates during certain times. So it's very possible that B6 asked TAP/Hawaiian to temporarily move.



This is really unfortunate and yet another black eye for B6, right in time for the busy summer travel season when transatlantic airfares are already through the roof.

I flew Mint JFK-LHR/LGW-JFK back in November, and it was a lovely experience, but JetBlue's continued reliability and scheduling issues are keeping me far away from booking any further trips for the foreseeable future. I am going to London again this fall and will be booking with BA, DL, or UA. While all carriers are having issues right now, at least they'll have multiple options to get me to London if the flight I book ends up getting cancelled...and, frankly, I have significant doubts about B6's ability to seamlessly re-accommodate passengers on AA. Their IT is not at all integrated, as I very unfortunately learned when trying to fly Mint LAX-JFK last month on an AA-ticketed flight. Total chaos that resulted in me buying a $700 walk-up (economy) ticket on DL just to get back to NY.



It’s a delay from Airbus I doubt JetBlue is happy either. Also they do a good job of protecting London stuff. Dedicated crews and planes it’s the one area of the operation that does well. So I wouldn’t worry there.


This! And the London ontime and dispatch reliability is almost near perfect, into the upper 90's. Even the legacy guys don't have dedicated cabin crews for just transatlantic


Um, that would be because the other airlines have way more than just 2 to 3 daily transatlantic flights to manage. Easy to do when you have the frequency that B6 currently does - not so easy when you're flying 30+ TATL flights from 6 different US hubs and multiple language requirements. Props to B6 for keeping the international ops strong, but relatively easy to do considering the size of their TATL schedule.
 
Abeam79
Posts: 608
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:16 am

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Wed Jun 01, 2022 6:19 pm

LHUSA wrote:
Abeam79 wrote:
fastmover wrote:


It’s a delay from Airbus I doubt JetBlue is happy either. Also they do a good job of protecting London stuff. Dedicated crews and planes it’s the one area of the operation that does well. So I wouldn’t worry there.


This! And the London ontime and dispatch reliability is almost near perfect, into the upper 90's. Even the legacy guys don't have dedicated cabin crews for just transatlantic


Um, that would be because the other airlines have way more than just 2 to 3 daily transatlantic flights to manage. Easy to do when you have the frequency that B6 currently does - not so easy when you're flying 30+ TATL flights from 6 different US hubs and multiple language requirements. Props to B6 for keeping the international ops strong, but relatively easy to do considering the size of their TATL schedule.

fair enough, but they just started TATL just under a year ago, over time as more long range Airbus come in will it be more robust.
 
Brianpr3
Posts: 134
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:34 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Wed Jun 01, 2022 6:51 pm

fastmover wrote:
jetbluefan1 wrote:
maverick4002 wrote:

Didn't someone comment a few pages back that B6 was very sloppy in handling the flights so they left? Or was that another airline. I am sure someone here can confirm.


I think that was TAP, but I presume the same is the case for Hawaiian. I also believe that B6 moved around some flights due to overcrowding in the ticketing hall and lack of gates during certain times. So it's very possible that B6 asked TAP/Hawaiian to temporarily move.

sxf24 wrote:
JetBlue delays Boston-London launch due to A321 delivery delays: https://paxex.aero/jetblue-boston-londo ... aign=21541

LGW from 19 July to 4 August
LHR from 22 August to 20 September

There’s usually good margin in delivery schedules for new flights. Either B6’s buffer was too small or Airbus is quite late. Either way, there will be lots of unhappy passengers being rebooked.


This is really unfortunate and yet another black eye for B6, right in time for the busy summer travel season when transatlantic airfares are already through the roof.

I flew Mint JFK-LHR/LGW-JFK back in November, and it was a lovely experience, but JetBlue's continued reliability and scheduling issues are keeping me far away from booking any further trips for the foreseeable future. I am going to London again this fall and will be booking with BA, DL, or UA. While all carriers are having issues right now, at least they'll have multiple options to get me to London if the flight I book ends up getting cancelled...and, frankly, I have significant doubts about B6's ability to seamlessly re-accommodate passengers on AA. Their IT is not at all integrated, as I very unfortunately learned when trying to fly Mint LAX-JFK last month on an AA-ticketed flight. Total chaos that resulted in me buying a $700 walk-up (economy) ticket on DL just to get back to NY.



It’s a delay from Airbus I doubt JetBlue is happy either. Also they do a good job of protecting London stuff. Dedicated crews and planes it’s the one area of the operation that does well. So I wouldn’t worry there.

They better get some compensation for it
 
trueblew
Posts: 449
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:16 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Wed Jun 01, 2022 8:43 pm

LHUSA wrote:
Abeam79 wrote:
fastmover wrote:


It’s a delay from Airbus I doubt JetBlue is happy either. Also they do a good job of protecting London stuff. Dedicated crews and planes it’s the one area of the operation that does well. So I wouldn’t worry there.


This! And the London ontime and dispatch reliability is almost near perfect, into the upper 90's. Even the legacy guys don't have dedicated cabin crews for just transatlantic


Um, that would be because the other airlines have way more than just 2 to 3 daily transatlantic flights to manage. Easy to do when you have the frequency that B6 currently does - not so easy when you're flying 30+ TATL flights from 6 different US hubs and multiple language requirements. Props to B6 for keeping the international ops strong, but relatively easy to do considering the size of their TATL schedule.


The point he was making was the user who expressed concern with the reliability of JetBlue TATL operations had little reason to be concerned. Your condescending response was off point. Looking forward, JetBlue already have a long track record of protecting domestic Mint flights (crew and schedule performance) to a much higher degree than their general operation so it is likely their eventual expanded TATL operation will enjoy the same reliability.
 
Brickell305
Posts: 1698
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Wed Jun 01, 2022 8:47 pm

jetbluefan1 wrote:
maverick4002 wrote:
SoCalFlyer wrote:
Random question, but why did Hawaiian move from T5 to T4? Was it because it the construction that’s about to happen on the expansion of T5, or something else? That seems to be a pain in the butt for customers having to connect.


Didn't someone comment a few pages back that B6 was very sloppy in handling the flights so they left? Or was that another airline. I am sure someone here can confirm.


I think that was TAP, but I presume the same is the case for Hawaiian. I also believe that B6 moved around some flights due to overcrowding in the ticketing hall and lack of gates during certain times. So it's very possible that B6 asked TAP/Hawaiian to temporarily move.

sxf24 wrote:
JetBlue delays Boston-London launch due to A321 delivery delays: https://paxex.aero/jetblue-boston-londo ... aign=21541

LGW from 19 July to 4 August
LHR from 22 August to 20 September

There’s usually good margin in delivery schedules for new flights. Either B6’s buffer was too small or Airbus is quite late. Either way, there will be lots of unhappy passengers being rebooked.


This is really unfortunate and yet another black eye for B6, right in time for the busy summer travel season when transatlantic airfares are already through the roof.

I flew Mint JFK-LHR/LGW-JFK back in November, and it was a lovely experience, but JetBlue's continued reliability and scheduling issues are keeping me far away from booking any further trips for the foreseeable future. I am going to London again this fall and will be booking with BA, DL, or UA. While all carriers are having issues right now, at least they'll have multiple options to get me to London if the flight I book ends up getting cancelled...and, frankly, I have significant doubts about B6's ability to seamlessly re-accommodate passengers on AA. Their IT is not at all integrated, as I very unfortunately learned when trying to fly Mint LAX-JFK last month on an AA-ticketed flight. Total chaos that resulted in me buying a $700 walk-up (economy) ticket on DL just to get back to NY.


They are not re-accommodating passengers on AA flights. In their press release, they stated they would route pax via their JFK flights.
 
doulasc
Posts: 940
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:12 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Mon Jun 06, 2022 1:04 am

Is JetBlue planning on any new cities and routes
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 2075
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Mon Jun 06, 2022 2:19 am

Did the Newark pilot and FA bases open yet?
 
flight152
Posts: 3560
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2000 8:04 am

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Mon Jun 06, 2022 2:24 am

doulasc wrote:
Is JetBlue planning on any new cities and routes

They can’t handle the routes they already have.
 
JoseSalazar
Posts: 785
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:18 am

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Mon Jun 06, 2022 2:54 am

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Did the Newark pilot and FA bases open yet?

I know the pilot base did. I assume the FA base did as well but not certain.
 
FARmd90
Posts: 528
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2014 9:49 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Mon Jun 06, 2022 3:42 am

JoseSalazar wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
Did the Newark pilot and FA bases open yet?

I know the pilot base did. I assume the FA base did as well but not certain.



FA and Pilot base are now open for EWR
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 2075
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Mon Jun 06, 2022 10:48 am

FARmd90 wrote:
JoseSalazar wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
Did the Newark pilot and FA bases open yet?

I know the pilot base did. I assume the FA base did as well but not certain.



FA and Pilot base are now open for EWR


Thanks! Thought I heard my crew announce “thank you on behalf of this Newark based crew” but wasn’t sure.
 
tphuang
Posts: 7188
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Mon Jun 06, 2022 5:19 pm

doulasc wrote:
Is JetBlue planning on any new cities and routes

Well their block hour is down like 5 or 6% for summer time, so probably not. They will need to restore their network first.
 
Abeam79
Posts: 608
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:16 am

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2022

Mon Jun 06, 2022 10:37 pm

tphuang wrote:
doulasc wrote:
Is JetBlue planning on any new cities and routes

Well their block hour is down like 5 or 6% for summer time, so probably not. They will need to restore their network first.

Down from 2019 or down from the original 2022 plan? I am guessing the latter since they said they still plan to fly the busiest summer.
Heard a rumor they got slots for CDG and DUB to be announced later this year for sometime 2023 launch.

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