IdlewildJFK wrote:

bluecrew wrote:

Yes... ignore the wall of text... focus on the parentheses that clearly state it was the rumor on the property, this is the a.net way.

We're talking about the airline that had a pervasive rumor that United was in final talks to buy it for over five years.

Ok fair enough, if we ignore the parentheses rumor of Rebublic specifically, you did say you wouldn’t be shocked if those frames went to a regional, so ignoring the rumor of where specifically they could go, you do think it possible they go to a regional.

So based on a non-specific regional, what I said still stands. AA, DL and UA scope would not allow it, so AS would be the only possible airline with regionals who could have them. And they are still not a package deal as only half are controlled by B6.

My point is that I personally would be shocked if those birds end up flying for a regional - based on scope clauses and split ownership of the fleet.

I am not agreeing with/disagreeing with any of your other many points and that is why I don’t respond to them.


Original quote for reference:

“Sadly, the 190 probably goes away a little faster, and I wouldn't be shocked if it turned into a bid to send those frames to a regional (rumor was Republic).”

Air Wisconsin is due for contract renewal in February 2023, or something else entirely.
Strictly 50 seat flying and a history of being a promiscuous regional - nobody wants them anymore and they're basically at a dead-end (also, their stock is trading at $2.47 and they're owned by a failed biotech startup - lol?)

Not saying it's going to happen, but the scope forgiveness in the latest LOA was alarming. Could it be a conversation that comes up in negotiating a JCBA? Absolutely. Anyone that thinks they don't have their eyes on a potential regional play is kidding themselves - B6 is operating big regional jets at mainline pay levels today, competing on routes directly with regionals.

If scope gets gutted in a JCBA, I could absolutely see management picking up AWI in a Bennigans by the Orlando airport after a few too many well drinks, after a sad breakup with United.

I'm also of the opinion they won't sacrifice much of MIA to FLL, I think they would like to maintain and eventually expand the MIA footprint with Nk/B6 such as to consider using MIA as they have EWR to complement JFK/LGA in NYC. MIA would make a great catchment area for B6 with the added gates resources if they succeed in getting NK to expand Mint from probably even more than FLL. MIA-LAX is already doing great, they can expand mint in MIA to SFO, LAS, SAN, SEA, PHX, and if they get use more NEO LD they can also add south from MIA maybe to LIM, GYE, and even further into Brasil possibly Brasilia, Manaus?

Abeam79 wrote:

I'm also of the opinion they won't sacrifice much of MIA to FLL, I think they would like to maintain and eventually expand the MIA footprint with Nk/B6 such as to consider using MIA as they have EWR to complement JFK/LGA in NYC. MIA would make a great catchment area for B6 with the added gates resources if they succeed in getting NK to expand Mint from probably even more than FLL. MIA-LAX is already doing great, they can expand mint in MIA to SFO, LAS, SAN, SEA, PHX, and if they get use more NEO LD they can also add south from MIA maybe to LIM, GYE, and even further into Brasil possibly Brasilia, Manaus?

Let's say the NEA gets settled with DOJ and merger with NK gets approved. What are they likely to do first? Are they likely to finish building NYC/Boston first or South Florida? Clearly former. So if you were JetBlue and needed to pull aircraft to northeast, where would it come from? Most likely MIA, because those gates aren't that precious (they are all CUTE IIRC) and the yields are quite poor. You can cut a good chunk of B6 FLL routes and move NK over from MIA to back fill them. You can also cut a few of the remaining MCO routes. Move those aircraft to BOS, JFK and EWR. Get A319 reconfigured to be lower density and first class cabin. Have them run the Northeast business markets instead of E90s. Retire the E90s. See if you can get A319NEO converted to A220.

Once northeast is built up, then you can build up LAX and FLL. They can add to MIA at anytime. Not so different from MCO. Things aren't going to change much there. A really large B6 at FLL will effectively give them a fortress hub. I think that would be much more important than building up both FLL/MCO equally. I would also focus on LAX after NEA, since they will finally be able to have a 100 flight station there. That's big.

I just noticed that B6 has opened a new position for a Supervisor Airport Operations in Belgrade, Serbia.

Anyone know what this is all about? They don't fly to BEG nor do they have a plane for such an adventure. All they have is an interline agreement with Air Serbia via JFK.

Blerg wrote:

I just noticed that B6 has opened a new position for a Supervisor Airport Operations in Belgrade, Serbia.

Anyone know what this is all about? They don't fly to BEG nor do they have a plane for such an adventure. All they have is an interline agreement with Air Serbia via JFK.

If I am seeing the same job posting, I believe the job is in Belgrade Montana where the Bozeman airport is.

Figure8757 wrote:

Blerg wrote:

I just noticed that B6 has opened a new position for a Supervisor Airport Operations in Belgrade, Serbia.

Anyone know what this is all about? They don't fly to BEG nor do they have a plane for such an adventure. All they have is an interline agreement with Air Serbia via JFK.

If I am seeing the same job posting, I believe the job is in Belgrade Montana where the Bozeman airport is.

The job posting I saw was on LinkedIn so they probably clicked on the first Belgrade that popped out when they were choosing the location.

Tack wrote:

usflyer msp wrote:

Abeam79 wrote:

So what’s everyone’s consensus now that B6/nk proposed buy of nk has let simmered the past couple weeks? Aside from network synergies, If I was a nk board member/exec eyeing few extra millions in cash and a potential top leadership position at the merged jetblue, I don’t see why you would turn from that. Plus the combined B6/nk network would be much more formidable than nk/F9 which would up front be the size of jetblue currently. Also just heard that nk/F9 have much more overlap @40% vs about 20% B6/nk. I’m guessing nk will accept the B6 offer

Still think it is an absolutely awful proposal; B6 management must have drank some bad blue juice. I totally get why NK would accept it but B6 is overpaying and really doesn't have a good plan as to what goals an NK acquisition is going to help them achieve.

100% Correct. Based on the garbage that is the B6 operation now? This merger has the potential to be worse than the PA/NA mess. It’s fun as av-fans to talk about all the different possibilities. But anyone who’s ever lived through any airline merger knows they’re extremely difficult to navigate with an A+ C suite, which B6 does not possess.

The skills required to operate an airline and the skills required to merge 2 airlines aren't the same thing. While I don't work in airlines industry, I have been in the middle of 2 mergers in the last 5 years. That's not to say I have faith the current B6 management will do a good job here, but the success of a merger depends on a lot of things that we simply won't know from outside.

Also, I don't think they are overpaying at all. When NK/F9 deal first got announced, I thought F9 was picking up NK for peanuts. What B6 is offering for NK seems reasonable based on their current valuation and the assets they have.

Tack wrote:

tphuang wrote:

Tack wrote:

100% Correct. Based on the garbage that is the B6 operation now? This merger has the potential to be worse than the PA/NA mess. It’s fun as av-fans to talk about all the different possibilities. But anyone who’s ever lived through any airline merger knows they’re extremely difficult to navigate with an A+ C suite, which B6 does not possess.

The skills required to operate an airline and the skills required to merge 2 airlines aren't the same thing. While I don't work in airlines industry, I have been in the middle of 2 mergers in the last 5 years. That's not to say I have faith the current B6 management will do a good job here, but the success of a merger depends on a lot of things that we simply won't know from outside.

Also, I don't think they are overpaying at all. When NK/F9 deal first got announced, I thought F9 was picking up NK for peanuts. What B6 is offering for NK seems reasonable based on their current valuation and the assets they have.

The skills you mention are 100% the same. If you can’t run an operation with your own assets, and I’ve lived through it, you won’t be able to operate the combined assets any better as you attempt to integrate them. B6 is overpaying and doesn’t currently posses the C suite talent to pull this off. Now, that said, a company can usually recover from overpayment. And there is still time for the BoD find the right team to make this a success . But B6 leadership, in its current make up, ain’t it.

Okay, we can disagree on the skills part.

As for the other part, what is your justification that b6 is overpaying for nk? How do you arrive at that conclusion?

Also, if b6 is overpaying and can't do this, it's clearly a good thing for other airlines right? So you should be cheering for this move.

Tack wrote:

tphuang wrote:

Tack wrote:

The skills you mention are 100% the same. If you can’t run an operation with your own assets, and I’ve lived through it, you won’t be able to operate the combined assets any better as you attempt to integrate them. B6 is overpaying and doesn’t currently posses the C suite talent to pull this off. Now, that said, a company can usually recover from overpayment. And there is still time for the BoD find the right team to make this a success . But B6 leadership, in its current make up, ain’t it.

Okay, we can disagree on the skills part.

As for the other part, what is your justification that b6 is overpaying for nk? How do you arrive at that conclusion?

Also, if b6 is overpaying and can't do this, it's clearly a good thing for other airlines right? So you should be cheering for this move.

With their current management team in place , I believe based on their current operation, the price for NK will exceed what it would cost to grow organically and with a measured approach. It’s not just the cost of NK assets but the cost to integrate the airline into B6. The final number will be much more than what is out there. Just ask AS

I have no idea what AS has to do with any of this. You either overpay for an airline or not. If you think they are paying more than what they should for NK. Please use numbers to back it up. It has nothing to do with which management team is in the place. More importantly, neither you or I know what management will be in place for a combined airline since Robin have been scheduled for retirement at end of this year and Joanna's position is increasingly untenable. Who the board chooses to put in to place is an open question.

I’m never for less competition, price out some fares to basically anywhere vs pre-COVID and you’ll see why I feel like I do. Second, B6 is a brand, with a completely overhauled C suite, that can continue to provide immense value to consumers. They keep the majors honest and they fill vital air corridors with a terrific option to the big 3/4 in certain parts of the country. I happen to believe that being a niche player doesn’t suck. Especially if you have partners that can fill some of your gaps and you theirs. NEA being an example. So I hate this move. But I would be cheering my butt off for B6 to leverage and improve the NEA and continue to grow organically. I see this merger potentially dangerous to their survival.

That depends on what you mean by survival. If you mean by a takeover from one of the big 4, that's unlikely to be approved by this administration. Even this merger would face a lot of hurdles for approval. If you are talking about running out of money, that would be hard to believe too, since B6 have been tied with AS (and behind WN) as having the second best debt to cap position in the industry. They would have to burn through a lot of cash to get close to where UA and AA are right now. At worst, they will just generate a few point lower margins. Which would still put them in AA territory for a couple of years. Not great, but certainly recoverable.

If both NEA and this move survive the regulatory hurdles, it is basically the fastest way B6 can fulfill their obligations for NEA. They have been unable to operate the full summer schedule they agreed to with AA due to staffing issues. And that's something that will haunt them again next summer. A merger with NK would allow them to devote their most consumer friendly aircraft to NEA flying. Let's look at cost savings they will have:
1) allow them to more quickly dispose of E90 and return to 2 fleets. Remember, NK and B6 have the same type of engines on their A320 series.
2) allow them access to more up front A320NEO series delivery slots
3) A huge number of aircraft with most of them bought rather than leased. Even if they have to do reconfiguration cost, it would still save them a lot of money in terms of acquiring new aircraft
4) A lot of new crew members they can integrate to their rank that don't require new training costs.
5) Quite a few new stations that would no require B6 to pay for the costs of opening up new stations

Tack wrote:

tphuang wrote:

Tack wrote:

With their current management team in place , I believe based on their current operation, the price for NK will exceed what it would cost to grow organically and with a measured approach. It’s not just the cost of NK assets but the cost to integrate the airline into B6. The final number will be much more than what is out there. Just ask AS

I have no idea what AS has to do with any of this. You either overpay for an airline or not. If you think they are paying more than what they should for NK. Please use numbers to back it up. It has nothing to do with which management team is in the place. More importantly, neither you or I know what management will be in place for a combined airline since Robin have been scheduled for retirement at end of this year and Joanna's position is increasingly untenable. Who the board chooses to put in to place is an open question.

I’m never for less competition, price out some fares to basically anywhere vs pre-COVID and you’ll see why I feel like I do. Second, B6 is a brand, with a completely overhauled C suite, that can continue to provide immense value to consumers. They keep the majors honest and they fill vital air corridors with a terrific option to the big 3/4 in certain parts of the country. I happen to believe that being a niche player doesn’t suck. Especially if you have partners that can fill some of your gaps and you theirs. NEA being an example. So I hate this move. But I would be cheering my butt off for B6 to leverage and improve the NEA and continue to grow organically. I see this merger potentially dangerous to their survival.

That depends on what you mean by survival. If you mean by a takeover from one of the big 4, that's unlikely to be approved by this administration. Even this merger would face a lot of hurdles for approval. If you are talking about running out of money, that would be hard to believe too, since B6 have been tied with AS (and behind WN) as having the second best debt to cap position in the industry. They would have to burn through a lot of cash to get close to where UA and AA are right now. At worst, they will just generate a few point lower margins. Which would still put them in AA territory for a couple of years. Not great, but certainly recoverable.

If both NEA and this move survive the regulatory hurdles, it is basically the fastest way B6 can fulfill their obligations for NEA. They have been unable to operate the full summer schedule they agreed to with AA due to staffing issues. And that's something that will haunt them again next summer. A merger with NK would allow them to devote their most consumer friendly aircraft to NEA flying. Let's look at cost savings they will have:
1) allow them to more quickly dispose of E90 and return to 2 fleets. Remember, NK and B6 have the same type of engines on their A320 series.
2) allow them access to more up front A320NEO series delivery slots
3) A huge number of aircraft with most of them bought rather than leased. Even if they have to do reconfiguration cost, it would still save them a lot of money in terms of acquiring new aircraft
4) A lot of new crew members they can integrate to their rank that don't require new training costs.
5) Quite a few new stations that would no require B6 to pay for the costs of opening up new stations

Like you said. You’ve no idea how an airline C suite works. I hate trying to add anything to a discussion you’re involved in because anything counter to what you believe is met with disdain from you, take the fun out of threads. For those of us on this forum who actually have made a career in airline management, we will always see things differently and have actual different experiences than some one on the outside with their nose pressed against the window. My opinions above are all based on being involved in two airline mergers. And even then, like your posts, it’s just an opinion. Good luck in your role as the B6 official Arm Chair CEO. Cheers!

I simply asked you to back up your statement and you give me personal attacks and belittle me.

Please point to what I said that you believe is "disdain".

As I wrote earlier.

We discussed the pros of merging with nk quite a few times on this thread at start of covid. It's the most logical merger for them while retaining their brand. If I had more faith in this management, I would be more excited about this.

I have no idea if this bid or merger will work. And I'm on record saying this is far more anti-competitive than NK/F9 proposal. That's my position.

tphuang wrote:

Tack wrote:

tphuang wrote:

The skills required to operate an airline and the skills required to merge 2 airlines aren't the same thing. While I don't work in airlines industry, I have been in the middle of 2 mergers in the last 5 years. That's not to say I have faith the current B6 management will do a good job here, but the success of a merger depends on a lot of things that we simply won't know from outside.

Also, I don't think they are overpaying at all. When NK/F9 deal first got announced, I thought F9 was picking up NK for peanuts. What B6 is offering for NK seems reasonable based on their current valuation and the assets they have.

The skills you mention are 100% the same. If you can’t run an operation with your own assets, and I’ve lived through it, you won’t be able to operate the combined assets any better as you attempt to integrate them. B6 is overpaying and doesn’t currently posses the C suite talent to pull this off. Now, that said, a company can usually recover from overpayment. And there is still time for the BoD find the right team to make this a success . But B6 leadership, in its current make up, ain’t it.

Okay, we can disagree on the skills part.

As for the other part, what is your justification that b6 is overpaying for nk? How do you arrive at that conclusion?

Also, if b6 is overpaying and can't do this, it's clearly a good thing for other airlines right? So you should be cheering for this move.

Part of the problem wuth valuing NK is a large part of the value is tied into their high margin business model that B6 will be jettisoning. For B6's purposes, the value is their physical assets plus a little bit for eliminating competition - in no way does this come anywhere near 3.6B.

usflyer msp wrote:

Part of the problem wuth valuing NK is a large part of the value is tied into their high margin business model that B6 will be jettisoning. For B6's purposes, the value is their physical assets plus a little bit for eliminating competition - in no way does this come anywhere near 3.6B.

That leaves B6 in a very difficult position. The value of the ULCC model is proven: it works for Frontier and Allegiant as it does for Spirit. But, if the country just needs a lot more B6, why wasn't B6 rapidly expanding into that market space over the last five (pre-Covid) years instead of expanding with Mint transcons, and TATL, and ...?

The AS + VX comparison seems pretty apt, in which AS spent $2.6 Billion and has kept virtually nothing but a few dozen LAX and SFO flights.

MIflyer12 wrote:

usflyer msp wrote:

Part of the problem wuth valuing NK is a large part of the value is tied into their high margin business model that B6 will be jettisoning. For B6's purposes, the value is their physical assets plus a little bit for eliminating competition - in no way does this come anywhere near 3.6B.

That leaves B6 in a very difficult position. The value of the ULCC model is proven: it works for Frontier and Allegiant as it does for Spirit. But, if the country just needs a lot more B6, why wasn't B6 rapidly expanding into that market space over the last five (pre-Covid) years instead of expanding with Mint transcons, and TATL, and ...?

The AS + VX comparison seems pretty apt, in which AS spent $2.6 Billion and has kept virtually nothing but a few dozen LAX and SFO flights.

I think there are several different questions here:
1) What are NK's assets worth on their own?
2) What are NK's assets worth to B6?
3) Should B6 actually be making this move?
4) What kind of value for B6 from eliminating 1 large competitor in NK vs facing a much larger competitor in NK/F9?

For 1), I think we can all agree that LGA slots, LAX gates, EWR gates/"slots", ORD gates, FLL gates are valuable real estates. I think we can agree that a large single fleet with mostly non-leased aircraft and associated crew member have real value. There are a lot of physical assets that NK has that have value for any airline. Probably not worth $3.6 billion on this alone.

For 2), I think I can convincingly argue that NK's assets would be worth more to B6 than other airlines. For example, adding a large A320 fleet with same engine types as the one B6 has would help B6 more than WN or even F9 (since the latter has a mix of Leap and GTF engines). Adding A319 would also allow them to retire E90 sooner. Adding another 14 gates at FLL would be worth more to B6 than any other airline, since this will give them a much larger hub in FLL. I think we can agree that there is a huge difference between a hub where you control half of the traffic vs controlling 25% of the traffic. The profitability level difference is night and day. I would also argue that NK's gate assets at LAX would be worth more to JetBlue than other airlines, since they are still small enough to not require divestiture, but large enough where the additional gates will really help their position there. You can make the same arguments about EWR and LGA also. Also, merging with NK will allow B6 to instantly have several new stations that they would keep open. Other airlines may not find similar in that. I would definitely say that NK's assets are worth more to B6 than just about any other airline. What's that value? I don't know.

For 3), you can argue that even if NK's assets are worth $3.6 billion to B6, it does not make sense for B6 to take on this challenge when it has other issues it needs to sort out. You can argue that they really need more fleet/crewmember to support NEA operation for next summer. You can also argue that with all the recent operational challenges they've had, this is completely crazy deal to undertake. And I think this second point is a legitimate argument against making this deal. The counter point to that would be 4)

4) If B6 doesn't make this deal now, it will unlikely have another opportunity to make a similar move and grow. So, it doesn't have the luxury to wait until its house is in order. Instead, it will be facing a much larger combined ULCC breathing down its neck. Now, we could argue that is still a better situation than having a management is incapable of doing simple things to carry out a merger. There is no easy answers here.

JetBlue pilots not happy with the airlines management


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FRNYA-oWYAE ... name=small

earnings call is tomorrow. Might be the biggest earnings call they've had in a while. All the analysts should be giving very tough questions to JetBlue leadership on what has transpired in the past month. Aside from Joanna's continued presence, it's truly amazing Alex Battaglia still hasn't been let go. More than anything, I've lost faith in the Jetblue board to make basic obvious decisions. At this point, it seems to me that investor pressure is the only way that will force this board to do something. I thank the pilots for putting this out there right before the earnings call since wall street analysts will have to be asking JetBlue leadership questions about their operations.

Do we know what's going on at B6 in regard to CLT? I saw they're going from 3x daily to 2x starting 6/10 (found this out since it impacted my itinerary along with some dummy booking I did) and it just seems they're struggling here as of late.

MIflyer12 wrote:

usflyer msp wrote:

Part of the problem wuth valuing NK is a large part of the value is tied into their high margin business model that B6 will be jettisoning. For B6's purposes, the value is their physical assets plus a little bit for eliminating competition - in no way does this come anywhere near 3.6B.

That leaves B6 in a very difficult position. The value of the ULCC model is proven: it works for Frontier and Allegiant as it does for Spirit. But, if the country just needs a lot more B6, why wasn't B6 rapidly expanding into that market space over the last five (pre-Covid) years instead of expanding with Mint transcons, and TATL, and ...?

The AS + VX comparison seems pretty apt, in which AS spent $2.6 Billion and has kept virtually nothing but a few dozen LAX and SFO flights.

This seems worse. AS eliminated a direct competitor and prevented B6 from becoming a direct competitor. B6's proposal doesn't even do that.

Sure there i competition between B6 and F9, and B6 and NK on the margins, but a B6 or VX SFO-SEA flight would be competing for the exact same costumers as an AS flight.

https://blueir.investproductions.com/in ... -120321059

Not sure discussed already but full-year guidance reduced to growth of zero to five percent compared to 2019

MavyWavyATR wrote:

Do we know what's going on at B6 in regard to CLT? I saw they're going from 3x daily to 2x starting 6/10 (found this out since it impacted my itinerary along with some dummy booking I did) and it just seems they're struggling here as of late.

I wonder how much of it was slashing their network altogether. I had some diehard B6 fan friends in CLT who used JetBlue to get back to NY and go see family in Brooklyn for one and friends in LI for the other. Those flights are gone now, and it’s really not worth going through Boston to fly B6. Wonder who else is in a similar boat in CLT.

tphuang wrote:

Tack wrote:

tphuang wrote:

Okay, we can disagree on the skills part.

As for the other part, what is your justification that b6 is overpaying for nk? How do you arrive at that conclusion?

Also, if b6 is overpaying and can't do this, it's clearly a good thing for other airlines right? So you should be cheering for this move.

With their current management team in place , I believe based on their current operation, the price for NK will exceed what it would cost to grow organically and with a measured approach. It’s not just the cost of NK assets but the cost to integrate the airline into B6. The final number will be much more than what is out there. Just ask AS

I have no idea what AS has to do with any of this. You either overpay for an airline or not. If you think they are paying more than what they should for NK. Please use numbers to back it up. It has nothing to do with which management team is in the place. More importantly, neither you or I know what management will be in place for a combined airline since Robin have been scheduled for retirement at end of this year and Joanna's position is increasingly untenable. Who the board chooses to put in to place is an open question.

As it turns out, Robin's contract was extended a second time, now through September 1, 2023. Please check your sources.

https://www.businesstravelnews.com/Tran ... Hurley-CFO

"JetBlue CEO Robin Hayes will continue to lead the carrier for at least another two years, having agreed to extend his employment contract to Sept. 1, 2023, the carrier announced.

Hayes, JetBlue's CEO since 2015, "has successfully led JetBlue through the most challenging period in aviation history," JetBlue board of directors chair Peter Boneparth said in a statement. "We are pleased he has chosen to extend his contract and help JetBlue continue to execute on its long-term strategy delivering benefits to customers, crewmembers and shareholders.""

B6twufa wrote:

As it turns out, Robin's contract was extended a second time, now through September 1, 2023. Please check your sources.

https://www.businesstravelnews.com/Tran ... Hurley-CFO

"JetBlue CEO Robin Hayes will continue to lead the carrier for at least another two years, having agreed to extend his employment contract to Sept. 1, 2023, the carrier announced.

Hayes, JetBlue's CEO since 2015, "has successfully led JetBlue through the most challenging period in aviation history," JetBlue board of directors chair Peter Boneparth said in a statement. "We are pleased he has chosen to extend his contract and help JetBlue continue to execute on its long-term strategy delivering benefits to customers, crewmembers and shareholders.""

I can't even count how many 'expressions of confidence from the Board' Rick Wagoner got while (apparently) running GM into the ground:

In recent years, despite many challenges to his leadership of General Motors, Rick Wagoner had managed to keep a firm grip on his job, like hands wrapped tight around a steering wheel.

During his tenure as chief executive, beginning in 2000, the company’s stock has fallen from $70 a share to less than $4 now, and its market share has fallen roughly 10 percentage points.
...

But he appears to have met his match in President Obama, whose calls for sacrifices from all sides apparently included a call for Mr. Wagoner to step down.

https://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/30/busi ... goner.html

U.S. CEOs are golden, right up until the day they aren't. We don't see the extended publicized discussions over contract extensions by Supervisory Boards as in Germany.

Well, Wall Street sure didn't like what they heard from JetBlue on the earnings call. JP Morgan did a double downgrade from overweight to underweight, and this is after several other investment banks downgraded the stock before earnings. Stunning that the Board remains asleep at the wheel while the airline falls apart.

Additional route cuts announced: https://simpleflying.com/jetblue-pulls- ... mmer-2022/

So sad to see the mess that Robin and Johanna have allowed to develop on their watches. They should both be removed promptly.

The pilot shortage has come home to roost with some asking if JetBlue is now just a stepping stone for crew members on their way to bigger airlines.

https://skift.com/2022/04/26/jetblue-finds-new-revenues-as-pilot-shortage-takes-its-toll/

It's a cascading effect, the big three (four) are experiencing crew shortages and Jetblue crews want careers with growth potential. I don't see merging with NK as a solution, it's just a stop gap.

jetbluefan1 wrote:

Well, Wall Street sure didn't like what they heard from JetBlue on the earnings call. JP Morgan did a double downgrade from overweight to underweight, and this is after several other investment banks downgraded the stock before earnings. Stunning that the Board remains asleep at the wheel while the airline falls apart.

Additional route cuts announced: https://simpleflying.com/jetblue-pulls- ... mmer-2022/

So sad to see the mess that Robin and Johanna have allowed to develop on their watches. They should both be removed promptly.

I'm a hopefully person, so I'm hoping yesterday was one of the best things to happen to JetBlue. We have a board and leadership at JetBlue that is completely incapable of running this airline. Everyone can see that. I'm hoping that embarrassing display yesterday would finally push the large shareholders to fire half of the board and Joanna and Robin.

I used to think JetBlue's problem mostly reside in Joanna. But over the last couple of weeks, it's apparent that the board is incapable of making the most obvious and basic decisions. They should've been actively searching for a new CEO by now. I'm not saying they can get someone like Scott Kirby, but JetBlue is not a small airline. There is a lot of potential in JetBlue. It's a great brand with great assets and great people.

If it takes several Wall Street downgrade and massive stock price drop to get these people terminated, then that should happen. How can these people possibly look at Joanna and Alex and think they know what they are doing? This airline has so much potential if it had the right people running it.

tphuang wrote:

jetbluefan1 wrote:

Well, Wall Street sure didn't like what they heard from JetBlue on the earnings call. JP Morgan did a double downgrade from overweight to underweight, and this is after several other investment banks downgraded the stock before earnings. Stunning that the Board remains asleep at the wheel while the airline falls apart.

Additional route cuts announced: https://simpleflying.com/jetblue-pulls- ... mmer-2022/

So sad to see the mess that Robin and Johanna have allowed to develop on their watches. They should both be removed promptly.

I'm a hopefully person, so I'm hoping yesterday was one of the best things to happen to JetBlue. We have a board and leadership at JetBlue that is completely incapable of running this airline. Everyone can see that. I'm hoping that embarrassing display yesterday would finally push the large shareholders to fire half of the board and Joanna and Robin.

I used to think JetBlue's problem mostly reside in Joanna. But over the last couple of weeks, it's apparent that the board is incapable of making the most obvious and basic decisions. They should've been actively searching for a new CEO by now. I'm not saying they can get someone like Scott Kirby, but JetBlue is not a small airline. There is a lot of potential in JetBlue. It's a great brand with great assets and great people.

If it takes several Wall Street downgrade and massive stock price drop to get these people terminated, then that should happen. How can these people possibly look at Joanna and Alex and think they know what they are doing? This airline has so much potential if it had the right people running it.

There isn't much more one can say about that. Spot on, tphuang.

trueblew wrote:

tphuang wrote:

jetbluefan1 wrote:

Well, Wall Street sure didn't like what they heard from JetBlue on the earnings call. JP Morgan did a double downgrade from overweight to underweight, and this is after several other investment banks downgraded the stock before earnings. Stunning that the Board remains asleep at the wheel while the airline falls apart.

Additional route cuts announced: https://simpleflying.com/jetblue-pulls- ... mmer-2022/

So sad to see the mess that Robin and Johanna have allowed to develop on their watches. They should both be removed promptly.

I'm a hopefully person, so I'm hoping yesterday was one of the best things to happen to JetBlue. We have a board and leadership at JetBlue that is completely incapable of running this airline. Everyone can see that. I'm hoping that embarrassing display yesterday would finally push the large shareholders to fire half of the board and Joanna and Robin.

I used to think JetBlue's problem mostly reside in Joanna. But over the last couple of weeks, it's apparent that the board is incapable of making the most obvious and basic decisions. They should've been actively searching for a new CEO by now. I'm not saying they can get someone like Scott Kirby, but JetBlue is not a small airline. There is a lot of potential in JetBlue. It's a great brand with great assets and great people.

If it takes several Wall Street downgrade and massive stock price drop to get these people terminated, then that should happen. How can these people possibly look at Joanna and Alex and think they know what they are doing? This airline has so much potential if it had the right people running it.

There isn't much more one can say about that. Spot on, tphuang.

Exactly, maybe things will finally change with these downgrades and the union now calling for Alexs' head to roll, hopefully it starts a few more, Johanna needs to go. Robin I think overall has the right forecasting ideas of where to bring jetblue, but he needs to be better at choosing much more capable people after him to execute the operation. Alex B and Johanna really need to be let go. I think the only way things get better is to endure short term pain for long term success.

After all the negative press from jetblue in the last few weeks.....this!
"On a scale from 1 to 100, the customer satisfaction rating for JetBlue was 79 in 2022, an increase from 2021's 77 by 3%. This means that JetBlue overtook last year's front runners, Delta Air Lines and low-cost giant Southwest, who both headed in the opposite direction and dropped from 79 to 77."
https://simpleflying.com/jetblue-top-ai ... 4CpqSgaH-w

Did i just time warp 6 months into the future thus the results of operations overhaul?

Abeam79 wrote:

After all the negative press from jetblue in the last few weeks.....this!
"On a scale from 1 to 100, the customer satisfaction rating for JetBlue was 79 in 2022, an increase from 2021's 77 by 3%. This means that JetBlue overtook last year's front runners, Delta Air Lines and low-cost giant Southwest, who both headed in the opposite direction and dropped from 79 to 77."
https://simpleflying.com/jetblue-top-ai ... 4CpqSgaH-w

Did i just time warp 6 months into the future thus the results of operations overhaul?

Irritating how ACSI doesn’t make the survey results or background public unless you pay. Anyone have a subscription? How many people interviewed flew JetBlue, and how many recently?

Abeam79 wrote:

After all the negative press from jetblue in the last few weeks.....this!
"On a scale from 1 to 100, the customer satisfaction rating for JetBlue was 79 in 2022, an increase from 2021's 77 by 3%. This means that JetBlue overtook last year's front runners, Delta Air Lines and low-cost giant Southwest, who both headed in the opposite direction and dropped from 79 to 77."
https://simpleflying.com/jetblue-top-ai ... 4CpqSgaH-w

Did i just time warp 6 months into the future thus the results of operations overhaul?

It’s fascinating that Sprit, which JetBlue wants to buy, is at the bottom “The worst in class of the major airlines was Spirit, however. The Florida-focused ULCC fell further out of favor, dropping from 66 to 63 - a whopping 5%.”

It reinforces my thoughts that the Spirit network won’t permanently join JetBlue’s network, this is just a purchase of planes and pilots.

USAirKid wrote:

Abeam79 wrote:

After all the negative press from jetblue in the last few weeks.....this!
"On a scale from 1 to 100, the customer satisfaction rating for JetBlue was 79 in 2022, an increase from 2021's 77 by 3%. This means that JetBlue overtook last year's front runners, Delta Air Lines and low-cost giant Southwest, who both headed in the opposite direction and dropped from 79 to 77."
https://simpleflying.com/jetblue-top-ai ... 4CpqSgaH-w

Did i just time warp 6 months into the future thus the results of operations overhaul?

It’s fascinating that Sprit, which JetBlue wants to buy, is at the bottom “The worst in class of the major airlines was Spirit, however. The Florida-focused ULCC fell further out of favor, dropping from 66 to 63 - a whopping 5%.”

It reinforces my thoughts that the Spirit network won’t permanently join JetBlue’s network, this is just a purchase of planes and pilots.

Not surprised, Spirit has been a complete and utter mess as of late. I’m pretty sure Spirit’s management has completely checked out. Theres absolutely no leadership and they’re just waiting to be absorbed by either Indigo or B6. Sad yellow times.

santi319 wrote:

USAirKid wrote:

Abeam79 wrote:

After all the negative press from jetblue in the last few weeks.....this!
"On a scale from 1 to 100, the customer satisfaction rating for JetBlue was 79 in 2022, an increase from 2021's 77 by 3%. This means that JetBlue overtook last year's front runners, Delta Air Lines and low-cost giant Southwest, who both headed in the opposite direction and dropped from 79 to 77."
https://simpleflying.com/jetblue-top-ai ... 4CpqSgaH-w

Did i just time warp 6 months into the future thus the results of operations overhaul?

It’s fascinating that Sprit, which JetBlue wants to buy, is at the bottom “The worst in class of the major airlines was Spirit, however. The Florida-focused ULCC fell further out of favor, dropping from 66 to 63 - a whopping 5%.”

It reinforces my thoughts that the Spirit network won’t permanently join JetBlue’s network, this is just a purchase of planes and pilots.

Not surprised, Spirit has been a complete and utter mess as of late. I’m pretty sure Spirit’s management has completely checked out. Theres absolutely no leadership and they’re just waiting to be absorbed by either Indigo or B6. Sad yellow times.

I don't think Spirit ever cared about customer satisfaction - it is not part of their business model. They know their customers will return, satisfied or not, if it saves them money. To quote their former CEO BBB - "“We owe him nothing as far as I’m concerned. Let him tell the world how bad we are. He’s never flown us before anyway and will be back when we save him a penny.”

usflyer msp wrote:

santi319 wrote:

USAirKid wrote:

It’s fascinating that Sprit, which JetBlue wants to buy, is at the bottom “The worst in class of the major airlines was Spirit, however. The Florida-focused ULCC fell further out of favor, dropping from 66 to 63 - a whopping 5%.”

It reinforces my thoughts that the Spirit network won’t permanently join JetBlue’s network, this is just a purchase of planes and pilots.

Not surprised, Spirit has been a complete and utter mess as of late. I’m pretty sure Spirit’s management has completely checked out. Theres absolutely no leadership and they’re just waiting to be absorbed by either Indigo or B6. Sad yellow times.

I don't think Spirit ever cared about customer satisfaction - it is not part of their business model. They know their customers will return, satisfied or not, if it saves them money. To quote their former CEO BBB - "“We owe him nothing as far as I’m concerned. Let him tell the world how bad we are. He’s never flown us before anyway and will be back when we save him a penny.”

I wasn’t talking about customer satisfaction actually. And funny thing is that same guy (BBB) is in the board at Jetblue..

Objectively speaking, spirit was run quite well for much of 2018 to 2020. Their operations got a lot better and they still had low costs. Both b6 and wn had trouble dealing with nk. If b6 and nk do merge, let's hope for competent leadership.

https://ir.spirit.com/news-releases/new ... fault.aspx

Board Unanimously Determined JetBlue Proposal Does Not Constitute a 'Superior Proposal'

Company Intends to Continue Advancing Toward Completion of Transaction with Frontier Airlines

"We believe that is a clear, pro-consumer narrative that will resonate more successfully with DOJ than a combination with JetBlue, which would eliminate the largest ULCC and remove significant low-cost/low-fare capacity"

"Finally, we are skeptical about your claims regarding the so-called "JetBlue Effect." After receiving the summary output of your economic model from your advisers, Spirit's economic consultants identified reasons to doubt that such an effect would significantly exceed any similar "ULCC effect."

"We believe a combination of JetBlue and Spirit has a low probability of receiving antitrust clearance so long as JetBlue's Northeast Alliance (NEA) with American Airlines remains in existence."

Of note:
- B6 refused to abandon the NEA or significantly weaken it

Midwestindy wrote:

Of note:
- B6 refused to abandon the NEA or significantly weaken it

Not a surprise at this point, as any changes to the NEA would require renegotiation with AA and maybe the DoT.

Probably better to wait and let the government come back with demands if any.

David

diverdave wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

Of note:
- B6 refused to abandon the NEA or significantly weaken it

Not a surprise at this point, as any changes to the NEA would require renegotiation with AA and maybe the DoT.

Probably better to wait and let the government come back with demands if any.

David

It never made sense for them to give up on nea. If they had to pick between the two, nea gives them brighter outlook. As such, I always thought the chance of it going through to be lower than 50%. I think in the end, this probably the better scenario for them.

61.8%

That was the on-time percentage for JetBlue in Feb 2022. The average for airlines in Feb, 76.6%

They were not even close to 9th place and here is where the larger airlines fell...

Delta: 82.8%
Alaska: 82.8%
Southwest: 78.3%
United: 76.3%
American: 73.6%

One inkling of hope, they were up from January numbers.

Boston: 59.9% (10 points below average)
Ft Lauderdale: 63.7% (about 9 point below average)
JFK: 61.8% (11 points below average)
LAX: 74.9% (8 points below average)

I'll stop there. How did it get to being this bad?
https://www.transportation.gov/sites/do ... CR_rev.pdf

ytib wrote:

61.8%

That was the on-time percentage for JetBlue in Feb 2022. The average for airlines in Feb, 76.6%

They were not even close to 9th place and here is where the larger airlines fell...

Delta: 82.8%
Alaska: 82.8%
Southwest: 78.3%
United: 76.3%
American: 73.6%

One inkling of hope, they were up from January numbers.

Boston: 59.9% (10 points below average)
Ft Lauderdale: 63.7% (about 9 point below average)
JFK: 61.8% (11 points below average)
LAX: 74.9% (8 points below average)

I'll stop there. How did it get to being this bad?
https://www.transportation.gov/sites/do ... CR_rev.pdf

I would like to know as well. I understand covid has change how people work and there are shortfalls for getting employees to get back to where everyone needs to be. But covid aside at some point management stopped caring. When B6 lost the JF award there was a big push to “get back on track” if you will and get that JF award the next, it never came. Then there was another big push for on time performance and that kid of went to the way side. And at some point I think, JetBlue stopped being JetBlue if you will and it it all fell apart and now management doesn’t know how to get it back/fix it.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/05/06/jetblue ... offer.html
Definitely a very critical time for JetBlue. I hope they make the right decisions. This could set the airline up for either 5 years of growth or they could continue to be a mess and get taken over. There are more critical media news pieces on what's going on with JetBlue. I think at least this piece is entirely fair.

tphuang wrote:

If it takes several Wall Street downgrade and massive stock price drop to get these people terminated, then that should happen. How can these people possibly look at Joanna and Alex and think they know what they are doing? This airline has so much potential if it had the right people running it.

Agreed. B6 is best positioned airline to take advantage of the next major shakeup in aviation. The 321xlr is going to change the game. They're going to be able to serve routes that could previously only be served by widebodies (like say fll-eze/gru). They have the absolute perfect hubs in BOS/NYC/FLL. There's really no point getting into a slugfest on the west coast when they have so much opportunity east and south. The only way they ever get a west coast hub is if they merge with AS.

I received a quite vague tip that JetBlue have today further slashed their summer schedule, but I cannot find any corroboration online. Anyone have details or confirmation?

I am beginning to worry deeply about the viability of JetBlue under their current management and strategy.

trueblew wrote:

I received a quite vague tip that JetBlue have today further slashed their summer schedule, but I cannot find any corroboration online. Anyone have details or confirmation?

I am beginning to worry deeply about the viability of JetBlue under their current management and strategy.

If their bid for NK does not go through, which looks to be the case, I think B6 management will shop the airline (if they haven't started already). The pilot shortage is real, gas prices are going to remain high for a while, and there's always the possibility that the economy which has proven extremely resilient will relent under inflation. Jetblue has great assets and a strong order book for new aircraft.

Watch JetBlue get bought they just cut and cut and seem to be in desperate need of another airline.

Wneast wrote:

Watch JetBlue get bought they just cut and cut and seem to be in desperate need of another airline.

To be fair every airline cut, Jetblue just was way over bullish on their growth of +10-15% more ASM's above 2019 while everyone else except for the ULCC's are still well below 2019 levels. They will pretty much be AT 2019 levels at this point, still way ahead of their peers. They are not "desperate need of another airline" they are being strategic in making a buy when the market is at a very low pricing point coupled with a good time to get additional resources. They were clear if they don't succeed in the spirit purchase then they will continue growing via future deliveries and purchasing more aircraft, it will just take longer.
Spirit and Alaska also cut back. Lets not all get over dramatic on this

FLL is now a joke. Let’s hope they recover and recuperate their schedule.

avi8 wrote:

FLL is now a joke. Let’s hope they recover and recuperate their schedule.

The report is "suspensions" not cancellations they need resources for the NEA for now and they aren't getting the staffing as they were too bullish on.