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SQ22
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Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2022

Fri Dec 31, 2021 4:04 pm

Welcome to the Hawaiian Aviation Thread 2022. Please continue to post your news and your discussion here.

Link to previous thread:

Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021
 
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mke717spotter
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2022

Mon Apr 04, 2022 12:17 am

Has mask wearing been required at KOA even though the entire terminal is open-air?
 
roadrunner165
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2022

Mon Apr 04, 2022 9:56 am

Yes. I was there the first week of January and again last week. Hopefully the federal mask mandate will end in a couple more weeks.
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2022

Sun Jul 10, 2022 12:32 am

Hawaiian is ending service to Orlando after Sept 8.

https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/hawai ... d-honolulu
 
Runway765
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2022

Sun Jul 10, 2022 12:39 am

hawaiian717 wrote:
Hawaiian is ending service to Orlando after Sept 8.

https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/hawai ... d-honolulu


Not surprised, this route never made much sense for a variety of reasons. I wonder if they’ll try a different market in the Eastern US.
 
x1234
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2022

Sun Jul 10, 2022 12:45 am

I knew the Orlando service was a cheap way for Aussies/Kiwis to travel to Orlando and it was on the way instead of cheaper Asian compeititon.
 
ASFlyer
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2022

Sun Jul 10, 2022 1:38 am

x1234 wrote:
I knew the Orlando service was a cheap way for Aussies/Kiwis to travel to Orlando and it was on the way instead of cheaper Asian compeititon.


Except Aussies and Kiwis haven’t really been free to travel internationally pretty much the entire time the service has existed. It just never made sense.
 
flyaa757
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2022

Sun Jul 10, 2022 2:32 am

Well I sampled Southwest’s inter island service this week, and am sorry I did. Figured you cant go wrong for $29, but you can. I am really curious how long this will go on. WN has a very weird schedule with some aircraft doing multiple island hops, and others seemingly randomly flying inter island after arriving from the mainland. E.g. SMF-KOA-OGG. This schedule seems to make the operation extremely prone to delays, as I experienced and also observed.

I flew HNL-KOA. A/C 1 went tech, a/c 2 scheduled and then pulled to operate HNL-LIH-HNL before HNL-KOA. I guess LIH had more pax? Ultimately flight cancelled and all pax reaccomodated on a later flight, which still had empty seats.

I flew KOA-OGG. This one, thankfully operated on time, however load was abysmal. 57 pax on a 175 seat MAX.

Considering the loads and the “goodwill” being generated, not sure this operation is assured to be a success.
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2022

Sun Jul 10, 2022 2:40 am

flyaa757 wrote:
WN has a very weird schedule with some aircraft doing multiple island hops, and others seemingly randomly flying inter island after arriving from the mainland. E.g. SMF-KOA-OGG.


That’s exactly what they do. Fly over from the mainland, then hop around the islands for a day or two before going back. It, along with not needing to run as many turns per day on the interisland schedule, helps avoid the engine overheating issues that Aloha experienced with the CFM56 engines on the 737-300, -400, and -700.
 
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SANFan
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2022

Sun Jul 10, 2022 7:47 am

hawaiian717 wrote:
Hawaiian is ending service to Orlando after Sept 8.

When the route was announced and begun a couple of years ago, some speculated that those odd adds -- wasn't AUS the other one? -- were simply someplace for HA to use the a/c that were available as covid shut down much of HA's int'l flying. Seems to me some of those int'l routes are returning (or soon will be) so back come the "extra" long range a/c.

bb
 
Wneast
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2022

Sun Jul 10, 2022 7:52 am

SANFan wrote:
hawaiian717 wrote:
Hawaiian is ending service to Orlando after Sept 8.

When the route was announced and begun a couple of years ago, some speculated that those odd adds -- wasn't AUS the other one? -- were simply someplace for HA to use the a/c that were available as covid shut down much of HA's int'l flying. Seems to me some of those int'l routes are returning (or soon will be) so back come the "extra" long range a/c.

bb

It’s been running for a year what’s interesting is the AUS hasn’t been cut yet.
 
DaCubbyBearBar
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2022

Sun Jul 10, 2022 10:45 am

x1234 wrote:
I knew the Orlando service was a cheap way for Aussies/Kiwis to travel to Orlando and it was on the way instead of cheaper Asian compeititon.

HA has just restarted New Zealand service. Japan just restarted a short time ago, I believe. This MCO run has been done during Covid while there has been virtually no international service by HA. So I am wondering if MCO has been cut with the HA increase of international flights again. HA has not increased their A330 fleet, so the plane has to come off of some other route. Just my $0.02….
 
WN732
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2022

Sun Jul 10, 2022 5:35 pm

Wneast wrote:
SANFan wrote:
hawaiian717 wrote:
Hawaiian is ending service to Orlando after Sept 8.

When the route was announced and begun a couple of years ago, some speculated that those odd adds -- wasn't AUS the other one? -- were simply someplace for HA to use the a/c that were available as covid shut down much of HA's int'l flying. Seems to me some of those int'l routes are returning (or soon will be) so back come the "extra" long range a/c.

bb

It’s been running for a year what’s interesting is the AUS hasn’t been cut yet.


AUS is doing well for them.
 
azjubilee
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2022

Sun Jul 10, 2022 5:44 pm

hawaiian717 wrote:
Hawaiian is ending service to Orlando after Sept 8.

https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/hawai ... d-honolulu


With the 787 delays and the rebuilding of the Japan network, something had to give. The route did well seasonally, but there aren't enough airplanes to fly the entire schedule.
 
jplatts
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2022

Sun Jul 10, 2022 6:33 pm

WN732 wrote:
Wneast wrote:
SANFan wrote:
When the route was announced and begun a couple of years ago, some speculated that those odd adds -- wasn't AUS the other one? -- were simply someplace for HA to use the a/c that were available as covid shut down much of HA's int'l flying. Seems to me some of those int'l routes are returning (or soon will be) so back come the "extra" long range a/c.

bb

It’s been running for a year what’s interesting is the AUS hasn’t been cut yet.


AUS is doing well for them.


HA faces the possibility of AA adding AUS-HNL nonstop service if HA drops AUS-HNL nonstop service, whereas HA isn't currently facing the risk of another airline adding MCO-HNL nonstop service.

AUS-HNL is also approximately 1,000 miles shorter than that of MCO-HNL.
 
Rookinla
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2022

Sun Jul 10, 2022 7:33 pm

WN732 wrote:
Wneast wrote:
SANFan wrote:
When the route was announced and begun a couple of years ago, some speculated that those odd adds -- wasn't AUS the other one? -- were simply someplace for HA to use the a/c that were available as covid shut down much of HA's int'l flying. Seems to me some of those int'l routes are returning (or soon will be) so back come the "extra" long range a/c.

bb

It’s been running for a year what’s interesting is the AUS hasn’t been cut yet.


AUS is doing well for them.


AUS is not doing well for HA. Load factors are in the 60s on average and as low as 40% some months. Yields are basically in line with MCOs and LFs are 15% lower than MCO on an average month. Their only saving grace is shorter stage length than MCO or AUS would be a goner as well. Likely to happen in the not too distant future as HA ramps up international flying.
 
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SANFan
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2022

Sun Jul 10, 2022 7:38 pm

Rookinla wrote:
WN732 wrote:
AUS is doing well for them.

AUS is not doing well for HA. Load factors are in the 60s on average and as low as 40% some months. Yields are basically in line with MCOs and LFs are 15% lower than MCO on an average month. Their only saving grace is shorter stage length than MCO or AUS would be a goner as well. Likely to happen in the not too distant future as HA ramps up international flying.

There are numbers published on the MCO thread... It looks to me like AUS-HNL will be gone as soon as HA needs the a/c elsewhere else.

bb
 
bchandl
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2022

Sun Jul 10, 2022 9:56 pm

SANFan wrote:
Rookinla wrote:
WN732 wrote:
AUS is doing well for them.

AUS is not doing well for HA. Load factors are in the 60s on average and as low as 40% some months. Yields are basically in line with MCOs and LFs are 15% lower than MCO on an average month. Their only saving grace is shorter stage length than MCO or AUS would be a goner as well. Likely to happen in the not too distant future as HA ramps up international flying.

There are numbers published on the MCO thread... It looks to me like AUS-HNL will be gone as soon as HA needs the a/c elsewhere else.

bb


MCO is cancelled as of 9/7

Was supposed to be on the flight 9/16 and 9/24 and got the cancellation email last night.

bchandl
 
smi0006
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2022

Sun Jul 10, 2022 11:22 pm

Random question for Aussie - with Japan slowly building up, and nervous nature of the Japanese consumer with regards to travel, is there any chance we could see a bit of HA expansion else where? I've always been surprised that HA flew into BNE over MEL. Now that AU government is throwing money around to attract airlines back - would HA have the capacity to start MEL? I always felt there would be room for a bit more of a premium product over JQ, although QF has never shown any interest beyond SYD.
 
azjubilee
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2022

Sun Jul 10, 2022 11:48 pm

smi0006 wrote:
Random question for Aussie - with Japan slowly building up, and nervous nature of the Japanese consumer with regards to travel, is there any chance we could see a bit of HA expansion else where? I've always been surprised that HA flew into BNE over MEL. Now that AU government is throwing money around to attract airlines back - would HA have the capacity to start MEL? I always felt there would be room for a bit more of a premium product over JQ, although QF has never shown any interest beyond SYD.


Prob not until the 789's arrive. Until then the fleet is quite busy as the build-back of Japan continues into the fall.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2022

Mon Jul 11, 2022 10:40 am

jplatts wrote:
WN732 wrote:
Wneast wrote:
It’s been running for a year what’s interesting is the AUS hasn’t been cut yet.


AUS is doing well for them.


HA faces the possibility of AA adding AUS-HNL nonstop service if HA drops AUS-HNL nonstop service, whereas HA isn't currently facing the risk of another airline adding MCO-HNL nonstop service.

AUS-HNL is also approximately 1,000 miles shorter than that of MCO-HNL.


AUS-HNL isn't performing well for HA but I think if AA were to add AUS-HNL, it would be a twice-weekly thing at best. MCO-HNL in any other time but the point in the pandemic where it was launched, would be a joke. The market is just not there and likely never was.
 
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chrisnh
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2022

Mon Jul 11, 2022 11:46 am

I flew BOS-HNL-BOS in February and they were full flights. I know that’s not an indicator of success, and I heard anecdotally that BOS doesn’t perform really great, either. Good enough to hold onto? I’ll let others chime in who know the numbers better than I do.
 
Rookinla
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2022

Mon Jul 11, 2022 1:49 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
jplatts wrote:
WN732 wrote:

AUS is doing well for them.


HA faces the possibility of AA adding AUS-HNL nonstop service if HA drops AUS-HNL nonstop service, whereas HA isn't currently facing the risk of another airline adding MCO-HNL nonstop service.

AUS-HNL is also approximately 1,000 miles shorter than that of MCO-HNL.


AUS-HNL isn't performing well for HA but I think if AA were to add AUS-HNL, it would be a twice-weekly thing at best. MCO-HNL in any other time but the point in the pandemic where it was launched, would be a joke. The market is just not there and likely never was.


MCO was and now will be one of the largest unserved markets from HNL. So I wouldn’t say that it’s a joke. HA needed the frame for more profitable international flying so MCO and others will go. The pandemic did send HA looking for markets to serve during the pandemic. So there is a market. It’s just an ULH domestic route and HA can make more money flying shorter legs.
 
foxalphazulu
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2022

Mon Jul 11, 2022 3:52 pm

chrisnh wrote:
I flew BOS-HNL-BOS in February and they were full flights. I know that’s not an indicator of success, and I heard anecdotally that BOS doesn’t perform really great, either. Good enough to hold onto? I’ll let others chime in who know the numbers better than I do.


HA has continuously done well on BOS owing to the local demand (both business related and VFR for students in that area from Hawaii).

While I don’t have numbers, HA is very scrupulous with their planning and only fly to meet demand. Boston and JFK are very popular for those reasons and for being able to get folks quickly to HI. There’s not a lot of people who will pay for that, and accordingly the frequencies fluctuate to meet demand (ie not daily year round).

MCO, on the other hand was a pandemic route launch. In those days, with most Americans essentially shut out of countries due to Covid, Hawaii was a good alternative to most people who would have otherwise stayed home.

I’d be surprised if anyone thought MCO would have stayed on after pandemic.
 
Pi7472000
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2022

Mon Jul 11, 2022 4:37 pm

WN732 wrote:
Wneast wrote:
SANFan wrote:
When the route was announced and begun a couple of years ago, some speculated that those odd adds -- wasn't AUS the other one? -- were simply someplace for HA to use the a/c that were available as covid shut down much of HA's int'l flying. Seems to me some of those int'l routes are returning (or soon will be) so back come the "extra" long range a/c.

bb

It’s been running for a year what’s interesting is the AUS hasn’t been cut yet.


AUS is doing well for them.


Interesting. I flew that route and it was half empty. Tourism to Hawaii is finally dropping. I may have just flown it on an off day.

https://beatofhawaii.com/decline-in-haw ... nt-page-2/
 
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usxguy
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2022

Mon Jul 11, 2022 8:00 pm

I can't see AA putting time or effort on Austin to Hawai'i, mostly because they need widebodies for other routes. And as we see Asia start to slowly perk back up in terms of service, those planes have to come from somewhere.
 
UALFAson
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2022

Mon Jul 11, 2022 10:03 pm

jplatts wrote:
WN732 wrote:
Wneast wrote:
It’s been running for a year what’s interesting is the AUS hasn’t been cut yet.


AUS is doing well for them.


HA faces the possibility of AA adding AUS-HNL nonstop service if HA drops AUS-HNL nonstop service, whereas HA isn't currently facing the risk of another airline adding MCO-HNL nonstop service.

AUS-HNL is also approximately 1,000 miles shorter than that of MCO-HNL.


I know you like to propose all sorts of random routes where there isn't existing service, but this one is a stretch even for you. AA doesn't even offer year-round ORD-Hawaii service. There is NO WAY they will offer AUS-HNL nonstop service. They are already short on widebodies and it's too easy for them to funnel AUS-Hawaii passengers through DFW or LAX.
 
PITFlyer330
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2022

Tue Jul 12, 2022 12:14 am

UALFAson wrote:
jplatts wrote:
WN732 wrote:

AUS is doing well for them.


HA faces the possibility of AA adding AUS-HNL nonstop service if HA drops AUS-HNL nonstop service, whereas HA isn't currently facing the risk of another airline adding MCO-HNL nonstop service.

AUS-HNL is also approximately 1,000 miles shorter than that of MCO-HNL.


I know you like to propose all sorts of random routes where there isn't existing service, but this one is a stretch even for you. AA doesn't even offer year-round ORD-Hawaii service. There is NO WAY they will offer AUS-HNL nonstop service. They are already short on widebodies and it's too easy for them to funnel AUS-Hawaii passengers through DFW or LAX.


Except AUS is paying the airline to fly HNL.

american would do better on AUS HNL anyway
 
rnav2dlrey
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2022

Tue Jul 12, 2022 12:01 pm

chrisnh wrote:
I flew BOS-HNL-BOS in February and they were full flights. I know that’s not an indicator of success, and I heard anecdotally that BOS doesn’t perform really great, either. Good enough to hold onto? I’ll let others chime in who know the numbers better than I do.


BOS does very well for HA, especially in the front cabin. they reduced frequency on the route in the heart of the pandemic (from daily down to 2-3x/wk), but that’s when the virus and hawaii state restrictions were at their highest. it was telling to me that they didn’t cut it completely.

HA charges a premium for the nonstop, whereas other airlines (especially AA) have discount fares constantly for BOS-hawaii tickets. i’m sure fuel prices are eating into the profitability for such a long A330 route, but that’s industry-wide i suppose.

don’t forget that HA and B6 have a decent partnership, so i’m sure there are some oddball BOS connections ticketed (which might involve backtracking) that can keep the plane full. i’ve seen people holding B6 BOS-EWR boarding passes upon arrival in BOS a couple times.

that being said, i generally avoid the flight bc HA is useless whenever it comes to IRROPS. it wouldn’t be bad if they would (for example) allow rebooking HNL-LAX/SFO on their own metal, and then the transcon on B6 metal. but anything rebooked onto B6 has always been a non-starter IME.
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Jul 13, 2022 1:44 am

Mokuleke’s first SAAB 340 has been unveiled at HNL. Video story here, other local news outlets have coverage as well: https://www.kitv.com/video/news/mokulel ... 84bb2.html

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