BahamasAir will begin flight to Raleigh/Durham this November. Also sounds like they’d be able to stay on the aircraft and fly to Nassau. By stopping in Nassau, then Freeport, then RDU, it’s gives RDU travelers options for both islands the BahamasAir spokeswoman said.

Bentheswim11 wrote:

BahamasAir will begin flight to Raleigh/Durham this November. Also sounds like they’d be able to stay on the aircraft and fly to Nassau. By stopping in Nassau, then Freeport, then RDU, it’s gives RDU travelers options for both islands the BahamasAir spokeswoman said.

Hopefully it’s timed to not be too close to other departures at FPO. The temporary terminal is rough.

Sky high erj190 visiting st kitts

https://www.facebook.com/10006350289520 ... ndRqWu22l/

303dk wrote:

Bentheswim11 wrote:

BahamasAir will begin flight to Raleigh/Durham this November. Also sounds like they’d be able to stay on the aircraft and fly to Nassau. By stopping in Nassau, then Freeport, then RDU, it’s gives RDU travelers options for both islands the BahamasAir spokeswoman said.

Hopefully it’s timed to not be too close to other departures at FPO. The temporary terminal is rough.

The flight would have to leave Raleigh by 2 most likely due to the other international flights. I’m assuming they’ll try and line it up with the existing 5:45 FPO-NAS time and just not add a new frequency. More so a replacement on rotation.

Brickell305 wrote:

I think an A220 or E-jet would do well based in KIN. They could add CUR, BZE, HAV, SDQ, TPA, ATL and boost frequency on NAS, GCM, MCO. From POS, I could see them boosting frequency on PBM, HAV, MCO and possibly adding PTY.

in addition to the above suggested routes what about others like
KIN-SXM
POS-SXM
POS-ANU
GEO-PBM?
POS-IAH? Do the E2s have the legs for this?
POS-IAD? Do they have the legs for this?
GEO-IAH? Do they have the legs for this?

Cheers,
AA1818

aa1818 wrote:

Brickell305 wrote:

I think an A220 or E-jet would do well based in KIN. They could add CUR, BZE, HAV, SDQ, TPA, ATL and boost frequency on NAS, GCM, MCO. From POS, I could see them boosting frequency on PBM, HAV, MCO and possibly adding PTY.

in addition to the above suggested routes what about others like
KIN-SXM
POS-SXM
POS-ANU
GEO-PBM?
POS-IAH? Do the E2s have the legs for this?
POS-IAD? Do they have the legs for this?
GEO-IAH? Do they have the legs for this?

Cheers,
AA1818

For POS-SXM/ANU and GEO-PBM I feel like if they wanted to add frequency they could’ve done that with the ATRs. I don’t think the eJet has the legs for the IAH/IAD routes from POS/GEO.

Arajet visiting piarco with the max8

https://www.facebook.com/38583148176655 ... 9QuS9dHpl/

Arajet visiting piarco with the max8

https://www.facebook.com/38583148176655 ... 9QuS9dHpl/

Arajet visiting piarco with the max8

https://www.facebook.com/38583148176655 ... 9QuS9dHpl/

Brickell305 wrote:

aa1818 wrote:

Brickell305 wrote:

I think an A220 or E-jet would do well based in KIN. They could add CUR, BZE, HAV, SDQ, TPA, ATL and boost frequency on NAS, GCM, MCO. From POS, I could see them boosting frequency on PBM, HAV, MCO and possibly adding PTY.

in addition to the above suggested routes what about others like
KIN-SXM
POS-SXM
POS-ANU
GEO-PBM?
POS-IAH? Do the E2s have the legs for this?
POS-IAD? Do they have the legs for this?
GEO-IAH? Do they have the legs for this?

Cheers,
AA1818

For POS-SXM/ANU and GEO-PBM I feel like if they wanted to add frequency they could’ve done that with the ATRs. I don’t think the eJet has the legs for the IAH/IAD routes from POS/GEO.

I think the E2 has the legs for IAD, the others suggested however would be out of range.

Arajet has 20 max8's on order.

Is their space for so many 737max's in the dominican republic market???????

Arajet has 20 max8's on order.

Is their space for so many 737max's in the dominican republic market???????

embraer175e2 wrote:

Arajet has 20 max8's on order.

Is their space for so many 737max's in the dominican republic market???????

I don't have any specific insight into the DR aviation market but, Arajet has got a few positives in its favour that might support a 20-jet fleet and even more.
1) 10million population (T&T has 1.4million and supports a carrier with more than half the proposed Arajet fleet.
2) Relatively strong economy- GDP (nominal) of over USD 10K p.a.- solid banking sector, good industry which will support business travel and has seen increasing FDI over the past decade.
3) Proximity to the US- shorter travel distances make shopping trips, visits, holidays etc even more feasible
4) Well known all-inclusive tourism product
5) Trade links with smaller less accessible CARICOM nations which may support a hub/spoke model in the medium term
6) Cultural ties to Spanish speaking regional neighbours- Puerto Rico, Cuba, Mexico, Venezuela, Panama, Colombia etc.
7) A not terrible geographic location as a north-south hub and as an east/west connecting point for Eastern Caribbean/ Central America.

Cheers,
AA1818

aa1818 wrote:

embraer175e2 wrote:

Arajet has 20 max8's on order.

Is their space for so many 737max's in the dominican republic market???????

I don't have any specific insight into the DR aviation market but, Arajet has got a few positives in its favour that might support a 20-jet fleet and even more.
1) 10million population (T&T has 1.4million and supports a carrier with more than half the proposed Arajet fleet.
2) Relatively strong economy- GDP (nominal) of over USD 10K p.a.- solid banking sector, good industry which will support business travel and has seen increasing FDI over the past decade.
3) Proximity to the US- shorter travel distances make shopping trips, visits, holidays etc even more feasible
4) Well known all-inclusive tourism product
5) Trade links with smaller less accessible CARICOM nations which may support a hub/spoke model in the medium term
6) Cultural ties to Spanish speaking regional neighbours- Puerto Rico, Cuba, Mexico, Venezuela, Panama, Colombia etc.
7) A not terrible geographic location as a north-south hub and as an east/west connecting point for Eastern Caribbean/ Central America.

Cheers,
AA1818

The problem Dominican carriers have to the US is the intense competition from US carriers who have the advantage of traffic being skewed to US point of sale. Trinidad has more balanced point of sale, is further away from the US, and is less touristy. That makes it less attractive for US carriers to flood that market and leaves more room for a local carrier.

The problem on the Caribbean end is that demand to most other Caribbean destinations is extremely thin.

aa1818 wrote:

embraer175e2 wrote:

Arajet has 20 max8's on order.

Is their space for so many 737max's in the dominican republic market???????

I don't have any specific insight into the DR aviation market but, Arajet has got a few positives in its favour that might support a 20-jet fleet and even more.
1) 10million population (T&T has 1.4million and supports a carrier with more than half the proposed Arajet fleet.
2) Relatively strong economy- GDP (nominal) of over USD 10K p.a.- solid banking sector, good industry which will support business travel and has seen increasing FDI over the past decade.
3) Proximity to the US- shorter travel distances make shopping trips, visits, holidays etc even more feasible
4) Well known all-inclusive tourism product
5) Trade links with smaller less accessible CARICOM nations which may support a hub/spoke model in the medium term
6) Cultural ties to Spanish speaking regional neighbours- Puerto Rico, Cuba, Mexico, Venezuela, Panama, Colombia etc.
7) A not terrible geographic location as a north-south hub and as an east/west connecting point for Eastern Caribbean/ Central America.

Cheers,
AA1818

Thx for the expln.

AraJet plans to fly from the Dominican Republic to the United States, Cuba, Colombia, Puerto Rico, Costa Rica, St. Maarten, Curaçao, Mexico, Panama, Aruba, Guadeloupe, Guatemala, Peru, Haiti, Trinidad & Tobago, Canada, El Salvador, and Jamaica

Brickell305 wrote:

The problem Dominican carriers have to the US is the intense competition from US carriers who have the advantage of traffic being skewed to US point of sale. Trinidad has more balanced point of sale, is further away from the US, and is less touristy. That makes it less attractive for US carriers to flood that market and leaves more room for a local carrier.

When it comes to airlines, I'd include Puerto Rico/US Virgin Islands to the Dominican Republic - US Market = B6/NK/AA? in that market.
It's kind of odd that on Google flights there aren't any 0500-0700 SDQ-SJU and SJU SDQ late evening flights, one would guess there is a passenger demand for those times.

The problem on the Caribbean end is that demand to most other Caribbean destinations is extremely thin.

Dominican Republic has several major airports: SDQ, PUJ, STI, POP.. SDQ would work for most major and somewhat thin destinations. PUJ is another case by itself, but usually leisure airports are not know for becoming hubs. SIT in The Caribbean and Latin America might only support SJU, SXM, HAV (very iffy), CCS and PTY (if CM doesn't re-starts PTY flights). POP - because its distance to SIT - may cannibalise any Latin American/Caribbean route from STI.

A388 wrote:

[

Your talking different things. You're talking about bad management in other areas like using the wrong aircraft types and expanding too quickly but airlines do have better market data they base their decisions on. So yes, airlines do know the markets they serve better. How is the JFK GEO route intensely competitive now? Only AA serves the route now too since not so long ago? If no airline serves a route but you and the demand is high, of course you ask high fares and don't focus too much on service. Any airline will do that!

A388

Bad management is when you have a route which is profitable because of high yields and loads (an airline's dream) and you anger the market by high fares and at times suboptimal ground service. Do you know how often complaints about BW were in the Guyanese media and in fact the Guyana gov't warned them about this? BW once had higher market share into GEO than they did into POS, interesting when one would think otherwise, given that its a TT owned and based carrier.

JFK GEO has THREE flights daily nonstop. B6 with A321 and AA with 7M8, plus BWs daily flight which continues on to POS. BW used to have 10x weekly nonstop plus daily connections via POS. AA now also offers a daily MIA GEO service. AA and B6 collaborate with each other to put a squeeze on BW on this route. I can also bet that the high yielding GEO based business travelers have switched their FF miles away from BW to AA. Pity because with Guyana's now oil riches this type of traveler is growing.

This is what BW lost and now AA and B6 got. BW now has less cash generated on the once lucrative JFK GEO service to support other less lucrative routes where there is more yield pressure. BW once had 60% of a high yeild market, and now they are the 3rd wheel. Lucky for them the POS GEO route is now quite lucrative thanks to oil which has resulted in massive

BW used to boast about the JFK GEO route when questions were asked about their financial viability. Recent developments are giving them a hurting. Had BW handled the JFK GEO market better likely their only competitor on that route would have been B6, competition that they would have been well able to handle and yet still get decent yields. But 2 US giants. Ouch!

caribbean484 wrote:

BWIA330 wrote:

Just an FYI Air Canada will discontinue POS from the end of September 2022 and as of right now it will resume in May 2023. This is really unfortunate as WS has also pulled out but apparently Swoop may start YYZ POS and GEO. Anyone have any information on this?

No info on Swoop however, 3 airlines operating POS-YYZ was always going to be difficult with 1 Canadian airline would have leaved. Now we have both Canadian airlines leaving says that it's really challenging to compete with BW.
Swoop won't make any difference to the eventual outcome.

baje427 wrote:

INFINITI329 wrote:

Economics aside I think the 717 is the perfect fit for BW. ( I mentioned this up thread several months ago). The 717 range would allow BW to fly routes in the Caribbean, Central America, South America & Florida. It also will be able to handle the airbridge rather well. I hope BW at least talks to Boeing to run the numbers. I don't think the ATR would be replaced by one of these three aircraft. As others have stated the gap is just too large between the ATR and 7M8.

The 717 is long in the tooth, the newest are heading towards two decades old. The 717 will follow it's older siblings into retirement in in another couple years.

Agreed with Baje427, the 717 is old now and mostly retired from airlines. There is no way BW would have bought into it. And to be frank the Ejet or the Cseries would have been better economically.

Moves by AA and WS indicate that their jets are best used in other more leisure focused islands, given that all carriers are under pressure. Canada's pandemic policies put a hurting on travel overall. No point putting on a long route YYZ POS when Cuba, DR, MBJ and Mexico offer better opportunities.

embraer175e2 wrote:

Sky high erj190 visiting st kitts

https://www.facebook.com/10006350289520 ... ndRqWu22l/

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... d-for-liat

Talking about intra CARICOM travel. One can get to SKB 2x weekly with nonstop flights from SDQ. No such luck from POS or GEO. Even SLU and BGI arent that easy. Consider that SKB is the HQ of the Eastern Caribbean Central Bank and other OECS financial institution.

On another front Mia Mottley of BGI was once AGAIN expressing the desire for West Africa Caribbean airlift as she looks to host a African Caribbean Trade Investment conference. The only airline I thought that might have been able to do this is Air Peace which has planes capable of such a flight. I suspect that Gaston is engaging in wishful thinking as none of these islands are going to invest in an entity that they kicked down the stairs a mere 2 years ago. They are financially strapped and investing in a regional carrier even now more risky. Maybe Gaston should negotiate to get the Nigerian money by giving them minority ownership.

Air Peace has flights from Nigeria to China.

aa1818 wrote:

caribny wrote:

Who here is complaining about BWs lack of expansion? In the post that I made I stated financial and staffing constraints and a need to be cautious, and therefore not taking on an intense intra-regional route network to replace LIAT. I just do not think that a SJU flight is a priority for them now, and I do not see a rationale for BW to service the US/BVI either. The milk run idea was pre pandemic and I think its a whole new world now. If they are not servicing JFK at the level that they used to (though YYZ service is almost fully back) I do not see flights to SJU. You will agree that JFK POS is a good deal less speculative than SJU STX POS.

Here's the problem, it may be less speculative in your opinion but consider that current yields on JFK-POS may not be what they were pre-pandemic and so in the interim there may be data available that suggests that a milk run from the northern Caribbean may be lucrative even at a couple times per week. Republic Bank now has banks in St. Maarten and the BVI, First Citizens is keenly looking at northern Caribbean opportunities by their own admission, ANSA McAL has manufacturing and distribution in the norther Caribbean including Carib Beer...there are many factors which may be driving CAL's decisions. I'm not saying that I have any data to support it, but you continue to write authoritatively and dogmatically when in fact you are merely speculating and spewing opinions which have no basis in data or fact.

caribny wrote:

Having said that there is a clear difference between JFK KIN and JFK POS. Both are similar in their market composition. As weak as the economy in TT has been (and the current boom in natural gas must be offsetting this) tourist dependent Jamaica was hit even harder. I do not think that there are different socioeconomic dynamics between TT and Jamaicans in NY. Yet JFK KIN is only down slightly and yet JFK POS is down by more than 50%. Even though one would think that with TT only now fully open without restrictions one would expect pent up demand into POS. KIN has been fully open for a long while now.

And you have to look at data- perhaps KIN is driven by North American originating pax. If so then that explains why the supply has rebounded since...tourism. POS may not have the North American originating bias, and local demand may not have returned as quickly. As KIN is so heavily dependent on tourism, the value proposition or visiting Jamaica, may make more financial sense than visiting T&T. Leisure travel has rebounded. Business travel has not. Perhaps POS is more skewed to business travel. There are a number of explanations for the lack of supply on the POS-JFK route. Give it time. CAL are not shying away from profit or choosing to leave money on the table. They are very much profit driven- especially these days.

caribny wrote:

I also think that AA/B6 on the JFK GEO means that fewer GEO bound passengers are on the JFK POS nonstops. It may well be that larger numbers of GEO passengers then we thought were traveling via POS.

That may well be a plausible partial explanation, but I doubt it tells the whole story.

Cheers,
AA1818

JFK KIN has the same market dynamics as JFK POS. Very little leisure travel there. People havent forgotten scenes of rocket launchers in KIN when the cops were looking for Dudus, plus not much in terms of beaches. In fact the KIN hotels cater to the business market just as do those in POS and there is little of those all-inclusive facilities that are the staple of Jamaica's tourism product.

BW has reduced its fleet as you know, so some routes have taken it on the chin and JFK/FLL POS are one of those. Maybe decent loads but lousy yields. While they do have options to acquire more jets given supply issues they will have to stand in line for these additional jets, given that AA and other large carriers have already exercised firm orders. So I dont see JFK POS returning for just now. So maybe less discretionary travel by the VFR on the JFK POS. More of the mom having to see her kids and less of the "travel to party this weekend".

BW has decided that sending a jet to KIN to spend more time on the ground than flying beats adding a 2nd daily nonstop on the JFK POS. Like you said they have the data and have made decisions on that. GEO yields are less there to support lower JFK POS yields so BW and B6 have decided to skip that price sensitive end of the JFK POS market. B6 did plan a 2nd JFK POS flight then dropped it when realities of crew/plane issues forced them to cut some flights.

I wasnt of the opinion that LIs nonstop POS ANU flight was doing that well, and so I wonder about BW on a milk run. If SXM needs more service they can add a 3rd 7M8 and put EIS bound pax on WM. Having said that SKB would love to have BW add service to that island to improve connectivity to the southern Caribbean. But is that the best way to do so or having some arrangement with LI/JY given their smaller planes? This allowing BWs larger ATRs to operate in the south where most of the demand is, and where JY probably cannot adequately serve now that there is some return of demand.

Max8 contest arajet vs caribbean airlines

https://www.facebook.com/10005057154609 ... Ft8P3dndl/

caribny wrote:

aa1818 wrote:

caribny wrote:

Who here is complaining about BWs lack of expansion? In the post that I made I stated financial and staffing constraints and a need to be cautious, and therefore not taking on an intense intra-regional route network to replace LIAT. I just do not think that a SJU flight is a priority for them now, and I do not see a rationale for BW to service the US/BVI either. The milk run idea was pre pandemic and I think its a whole new world now. If they are not servicing JFK at the level that they used to (though YYZ service is almost fully back) I do not see flights to SJU. You will agree that JFK POS is a good deal less speculative than SJU STX POS.

Here's the problem, it may be less speculative in your opinion but consider that current yields on JFK-POS may not be what they were pre-pandemic and so in the interim there may be data available that suggests that a milk run from the northern Caribbean may be lucrative even at a couple times per week. Republic Bank now has banks in St. Maarten and the BVI, First Citizens is keenly looking at northern Caribbean opportunities by their own admission, ANSA McAL has manufacturing and distribution in the norther Caribbean including Carib Beer...there are many factors which may be driving CAL's decisions. I'm not saying that I have any data to support it, but you continue to write authoritatively and dogmatically when in fact you are merely speculating and spewing opinions which have no basis in data or fact.

caribny wrote:

Having said that there is a clear difference between JFK KIN and JFK POS. Both are similar in their market composition. As weak as the economy in TT has been (and the current boom in natural gas must be offsetting this) tourist dependent Jamaica was hit even harder. I do not think that there are different socioeconomic dynamics between TT and Jamaicans in NY. Yet JFK KIN is only down slightly and yet JFK POS is down by more than 50%. Even though one would think that with TT only now fully open without restrictions one would expect pent up demand into POS. KIN has been fully open for a long while now.

And you have to look at data- perhaps KIN is driven by North American originating pax. If so then that explains why the supply has rebounded since...tourism. POS may not have the North American originating bias, and local demand may not have returned as quickly. As KIN is so heavily dependent on tourism, the value proposition or visiting Jamaica, may make more financial sense than visiting T&T. Leisure travel has rebounded. Business travel has not. Perhaps POS is more skewed to business travel. There are a number of explanations for the lack of supply on the POS-JFK route. Give it time. CAL are not shying away from profit or choosing to leave money on the table. They are very much profit driven- especially these days.

caribny wrote:

I also think that AA/B6 on the JFK GEO means that fewer GEO bound passengers are on the JFK POS nonstops. It may well be that larger numbers of GEO passengers then we thought were traveling via POS.

That may well be a plausible partial explanation, but I doubt it tells the whole story.

Cheers,
AA1818

JFK KIN has the same market dynamics as JFK POS. Very little leisure travel there. People havent forgotten scenes of rocket launchers in KIN when the cops were looking for Dudus, plus not much in terms of beaches. In fact the KIN hotels cater to the business market just as do those in POS and there is little of those all-inclusive facilities that are the staple of Jamaica's tourism product.

BW has reduced its fleet as you know, so some routes have taken it on the chin and JFK/FLL POS are one of those. Maybe decent loads but lousy yields. While they do have options to acquire more jets given supply issues they will have to stand in line for these additional jets, given that AA and other large carriers have already exercised firm orders. So I dont see JFK POS returning for just now. So maybe less discretionary travel by the VFR on the JFK POS. More of the mom having to see her kids and less of the "travel to party this weekend".

BW has decided that sending a jet to KIN to spend more time on the ground than flying beats adding a 2nd daily nonstop on the JFK POS. Like you said they have the data and have made decisions on that. GEO yields are less there to support lower JFK POS yields so BW and B6 have decided to skip that price sensitive end of the JFK POS market. B6 did plan a 2nd JFK POS flight then dropped it when realities of crew/plane issues forced them to cut some flights.

I wasnt of the opinion that LIs nonstop POS ANU flight was doing that well, and so I wonder about BW on a milk run. If SXM needs more service they can add a 3rd 7M8 and put EIS bound pax on WM. Having said that SKB would love to have BW add service to that island to improve connectivity to the southern Caribbean. But is that the best way to do so or having some arrangement with LI/JY given their smaller planes? This allowing BWs larger ATRs to operate in the south where most of the demand is, and where JY probably cannot adequately serve now that there is some return of demand.

I don't think demand has returned to any great degree, JY's frequencies remain quite limited given their long ground times and that they seem to stop flying after 8pm they would be able to fit in extra frequencies if the demand was there.

baje427 wrote:

caribny wrote:

aa1818 wrote:

Here's the problem, it may be less speculative in your opinion but consider that current yields on JFK-POS may not be what they were pre-pandemic and so in the interim there may be data available that suggests that a milk run from the northern Caribbean may be lucrative even at a couple times per week. Republic Bank now has banks in St. Maarten and the BVI, First Citizens is keenly looking at northern Caribbean opportunities by their own admission, ANSA McAL has manufacturing and distribution in the norther Caribbean including Carib Beer...there are many factors which may be driving CAL's decisions. I'm not saying that I have any data to support it, but you continue to write authoritatively and dogmatically when in fact you are merely speculating and spewing opinions which have no basis in data or fact.




And you have to look at data- perhaps KIN is driven by North American originating pax. If so then that explains why the supply has rebounded since...tourism. POS may not have the North American originating bias, and local demand may not have returned as quickly. As KIN is so heavily dependent on tourism, the value proposition or visiting Jamaica, may make more financial sense than visiting T&T. Leisure travel has rebounded. Business travel has not. Perhaps POS is more skewed to business travel. There are a number of explanations for the lack of supply on the POS-JFK route. Give it time. CAL are not shying away from profit or choosing to leave money on the table. They are very much profit driven- especially these days.



That may well be a plausible partial explanation, but I doubt it tells the whole story.

Cheers,
AA1818

JFK KIN has the same market dynamics as JFK POS. Very little leisure travel there. People havent forgotten scenes of rocket launchers in KIN when the cops were looking for Dudus, plus not much in terms of beaches. In fact the KIN hotels cater to the business market just as do those in POS and there is little of those all-inclusive facilities that are the staple of Jamaica's tourism product.

BW has reduced its fleet as you know, so some routes have taken it on the chin and JFK/FLL POS are one of those. Maybe decent loads but lousy yields. While they do have options to acquire more jets given supply issues they will have to stand in line for these additional jets, given that AA and other large carriers have already exercised firm orders. So I dont see JFK POS returning for just now. So maybe less discretionary travel by the VFR on the JFK POS. More of the mom having to see her kids and less of the "travel to party this weekend".

BW has decided that sending a jet to KIN to spend more time on the ground than flying beats adding a 2nd daily nonstop on the JFK POS. Like you said they have the data and have made decisions on that. GEO yields are less there to support lower JFK POS yields so BW and B6 have decided to skip that price sensitive end of the JFK POS market. B6 did plan a 2nd JFK POS flight then dropped it when realities of crew/plane issues forced them to cut some flights.

I wasnt of the opinion that LIs nonstop POS ANU flight was doing that well, and so I wonder about BW on a milk run. If SXM needs more service they can add a 3rd 7M8 and put EIS bound pax on WM. Having said that SKB would love to have BW add service to that island to improve connectivity to the southern Caribbean. But is that the best way to do so or having some arrangement with LI/JY given their smaller planes? This allowing BWs larger ATRs to operate in the south where most of the demand is, and where JY probably cannot adequately serve now that there is some return of demand.

I don't think demand has returned to any great degree, JY's frequencies remain quite limited given their long ground times and that they seem to stop flying after 8pm they would be able to fit in extra frequencies if the demand was there.

Au contraire, LIs POS-ANU-POS pre covid held its own, especially since when it tagged onto OGL. Even BWs once weekly POS-ANU ATR flight was doing ok until they chopped it and returned the POS-ANU-KIN milk run which I understand still does well. Given its summer, the loads are fairly decent with complaints that flights are full and people still looking seats. Im sure the numbers are still below pre-covid levels, but its getting better.

As for why JY seems to stop flying after 8pm (same for LI) some airports are struggling to staff a night shift and some are even charging overtime for operating after 6 or 8pm (DOM comes to mind). Even ANU until recently was closing at 10pm.

caribny wrote:

Bad management is when you have a route which is profitable because of high yields and loads (an airline's dream) and you anger the market by high fares and at times suboptimal ground service. Do you know how often complaints about BW were in the Guyanese media and in fact the Guyana gov't warned them about this? BW once had higher market share into GEO than they did into POS, interesting when one would think otherwise, given that its a TT owned and based carrier.

JFK GEO has THREE flights daily nonstop. B6 with A321 and AA with 7M8, plus BWs daily flight which continues on to POS. BW used to have 10x weekly nonstop plus daily connections via POS. AA now also offers a daily MIA GEO service. AA and B6 collaborate with each other to put a squeeze on BW on this route. I can also bet that the high yielding GEO based business travelers have switched their FF miles away from BW to AA. Pity because with Guyana's now oil riches this type of traveler is growing.

This is what BW lost and now AA and B6 got. BW now has less cash generated on the once lucrative JFK GEO service to support other less lucrative routes where there is more yield pressure. BW once had 60% of a high yeild market, and now they are the 3rd wheel. Lucky for them the POS GEO route is now quite lucrative thanks to oil which has resulted in massive

BW used to boast about the JFK GEO route when questions were asked about their financial viability. Recent developments are giving them a hurting. Had BW handled the JFK GEO market better likely their only competitor on that route would have been B6, competition that they would have been well able to handle and yet still get decent yields. But 2 US giants. Ouch!

Again, CAL did what any airline would have done in a monopoly situation. The fact that AA and B6 entered the market was a matter of time no matter how CAL treated that market. Just like how AA now also flies to Surinam. They see potential with no competition except PY.

A388

caribny wrote:

A388 wrote:

[

Your talking different things. You're talking about bad management in other areas like using the wrong aircraft types and expanding too quickly but airlines do have better market data they base their decisions on. So yes, airlines do know the markets they serve better. How is the JFK GEO route intensely competitive now? Only AA serves the route now too since not so long ago? If no airline serves a route but you and the demand is high, of course you ask high fares and don't focus too much on service. Any airline will do that!

A388

Bad management is when you have a route which is profitable because of high yields and loads (an airline's dream) and you anger the market by high fares and at times suboptimal ground service. Do you know how often complaints about BW were in the Guyanese media and in fact the Guyana gov't warned them about this? BW once had higher market share into GEO than they did into POS, interesting when one would think otherwise, given that its a TT owned and based carrier.

JFK GEO has THREE flights daily nonstop. B6 with A321 and AA with 7M8, plus BWs daily flight which continues on to POS. BW used to have 10x weekly nonstop plus daily connections via POS. AA now also offers a daily MIA GEO service. AA and B6 collaborate with each other to put a squeeze on BW on this route. I can also bet that the high yielding GEO based business travelers have switched their FF miles away from BW to AA. Pity because with Guyana's now oil riches this type of traveler is growing.

This is what BW lost and now AA and B6 got. BW now has less cash generated on the once lucrative JFK GEO service to support other less lucrative routes where there is more yield pressure. BW once had 60% of a high yeild market, and now they are the 3rd wheel. Lucky for them the POS GEO route is now quite lucrative thanks to oil which has resulted in massive

BW used to boast about the JFK GEO route when questions were asked about their financial viability. Recent developments are giving them a hurting. Had BW handled the JFK GEO market better likely their only competitor on that route would have been B6, competition that they would have been well able to handle and yet still get decent yields. But 2 US giants. Ouch!

I must commend you for your constant bashing of BW. You are consistent. Acting as if AA isnt in the same position BW was in a lot of markets and price gouging the same way. Thats what airlines do. And as if AA / B6 care about GEO, they are only there becuase of the oil boom but it is what it is. Continue to hold BW to different standards than the others

maverick4002 wrote:

I must commend you for your constant bashing of BW. You are consistent. Acting as if AA isnt in the same position BW was in a lot of markets and price gouging the same way. Thats what airlines do. And as if AA / B6 care about GEO, they are only there becuase of the oil boom but it is what it is. Continue to hold BW to different standards than the others

I feel like when trying to explain that BW is simply doing what any other carrier would do. On the one hand he bashes the airline for price gousing on GEO-JFK and on the other hand continuously questions their decision not to flood the POS-JFK market in a pandemic with capacity.

AA1818

A bit off topic but I've always wondered if a BW/LI crew does a turn to a US destination do they have to get off the aircraft and clear immigration/customs and board again or can they stay on board?

baje427 wrote:

A bit off topic but I've always wondered if a BW/LI crew does a turn to a US destination do they have to get off the aircraft and clear immigration/customs and board again or can they stay on board?

AFAIK, yes. I know BW crew do clear immigration/customs when they do turns at MIA. LI crew used to do the same at SJU when they did turns.

Brickell305 wrote:

baje427 wrote:

A bit off topic but I've always wondered if a BW/LI crew does a turn to a US destination do they have to get off the aircraft and clear immigration/customs and board again or can they stay on board?

AFAIK, yes. I know BW crew do clear immigration/customs when they do turns at MIA. LI crew used to do the same at SJU when they did turns.

Like they get off the plane and back on? Is this a USA thing? I flew United to Belize last year and the crew just stayed on the plane.

maverick4002 wrote:

Brickell305 wrote:

baje427 wrote:

A bit off topic but I've always wondered if a BW/LI crew does a turn to a US destination do they have to get off the aircraft and clear immigration/customs and board again or can they stay on board?

AFAIK, yes. I know BW crew do clear immigration/customs when they do turns at MIA. LI crew used to do the same at SJU when they did turns.

Like they get off the plane and back on? Is this a USA thing? I flew United to Belize last year and the crew just stayed on the plane.

Yes. They get off the plane, clear immigration/customs and go back on the plane.

Brickell305 wrote:

baje427 wrote:

A bit off topic but I've always wondered if a BW/LI crew does a turn to a US destination do they have to get off the aircraft and clear immigration/customs and board again or can they stay on board?

AFAIK, yes. I know BW crew do clear immigration/customs when they do turns at MIA. LI crew used to do the same at SJU when they did turns.

Thanks for the info I guess this explains the turn around time in MIA.

Been a squabble recently between DR and SXM Civil Aviation Authorities that has now been resolved.

DR stated that they believed that SkyHigh Aviation Services and Air Century adequately served the market between DR and SXM and would therefore no longer be allowing WM to operate into the DR; in contradiction of the bilateral agreement between Sint Maarten and the DR.

Because of this the Sint Maarten Civil Aviation Authority pulled the rights of Sky High and Air Century to operate into SXM past August 5th, that was then extended to August 31st by a government minister in SXM.

Apparently the issue has been resolved and flights between DR and SXM will be allowed to continue. The interesting part is that it seems like WM is operating into SDQ under a charter permit and not a scheduled air carrier permit. Which seemed odd to me. Not sure the reasoning why, but glad the issue has been resolved especially as the squabble would have affected the market during the heavily travelled August period.

WM's ATR expansion still on schedule for late Q4 entry into service.

baje427 wrote:

The 717 is long in the tooth, the newest are heading towards two decades old. The 717 will follow it's older siblings into retirement in in another couple years.

While I agree the 717 is old it still has some life left . For inter-Caribbean travel, I think It is perfect. BW could acquire these birds way cheaper than A220s or E2s. Boeing would love nothing more than place some of their stored 717s at a new airline, especially at one they have an existing relationship with which would translate into BW getting an extremely beneficial deal. Adding a new frame and keeping the associated debt low is a win-win for any airline, especially for a small airline like BW. Just my It appears in there will be a 4th 717 operator US-based Global X has job postings for 717 flight crew, but they do not officially have the 717 in their fleet as of yet. So finding new homes for 717s is not so far-fetched.

aa1818 wrote:

POS-IAH? Do the E2s have the legs for this?
POS-IAD? Do they have the legs for this?
GEO-IAH? Do they have the legs for this?

Going strictly by the book ranges it could be argued maybe. The 190E2 has a range of 2850 nm and the 195E2 has a range of 2600nm. Once you factor in bags and hot weather those numbers will change

POS-IAH 2227nm
POS-IAD 1904nm
GEO-IAH 2521nm

INFINITI329 wrote:

baje427 wrote:

The 717 is long in the tooth, the newest are heading towards two decades old. The 717 will follow it's older siblings into retirement in in another couple years.

While I agree the 717 is old it still has some life left . For inter-Caribbean travel, I think It is perfect. BW could acquire these birds way cheaper than A220s or E2s. Boeing would love nothing more than place some of their stored 717s at a new airline, especially at one they have an existing relationship with which would translate into BW getting an extremely beneficial deal. Adding a new frame and keeping the associated debt low is a win-win for any airline, especially for a small airline like BW. Just my It appears in there will be a 4th 717 operator US-based Global X has job postings for 717 flight crew, but they do not officially have the 717 in their fleet as of yet. So finding new homes for 717s is not so far-fetched.

aa1818 wrote:

POS-IAH? Do the E2s have the legs for this?
POS-IAD? Do they have the legs for this?
GEO-IAH? Do they have the legs for this?

Going strictly by the book ranges it could be argued maybe. The 190E2 has a range of 2850 nm and the 195E2 has a range of 2600nm. Once you factor in bags and hot weather those numbers will change

POS-IAH 2227nm
POS-IAD 1904nm
GEO-IAH 2521nm

Air temperature doesnt affect range.

embraer175e2 wrote:

INFINITI329 wrote:

baje427 wrote:

The 717 is long in the tooth, the newest are heading towards two decades old. The 717 will follow it's older siblings into retirement in in another couple years.

While I agree the 717 is old it still has some life left . For inter-Caribbean travel, I think It is perfect. BW could acquire these birds way cheaper than A220s or E2s. Boeing would love nothing more than place some of their stored 717s at a new airline, especially at one they have an existing relationship with which would translate into BW getting an extremely beneficial deal. Adding a new frame and keeping the associated debt low is a win-win for any airline, especially for a small airline like BW. Just my It appears in there will be a 4th 717 operator US-based Global X has job postings for 717 flight crew, but they do not officially have the 717 in their fleet as of yet. So finding new homes for 717s is not so far-fetched.

aa1818 wrote:

POS-IAH? Do the E2s have the legs for this?
POS-IAD? Do they have the legs for this?
GEO-IAH? Do they have the legs for this?

Going strictly by the book ranges it could be argued maybe. The 190E2 has a range of 2850 nm and the 195E2 has a range of 2600nm. Once you factor in bags and hot weather those numbers will change

POS-IAH 2227nm
POS-IAD 1904nm
GEO-IAH 2521nm

Air temperature doesnt affect range.

I think it affects engine performance at takeoff which results in lower maximum take off weight and thus less fuel loaded on plane and hence lower range for aircraft....

The 717 would make for an opportunistic acquisition for BW. Delta’s Fleet SVP is on record with an extended service outlook to 2029-2031. This means near-term parts/support/infrastructure are not a concern.

The 717s are likely to stick around until 2029/31, said fleet SVP Mahendra Nair.

https://mobile.twitter.com/byerussell/s ... 2521376768

Furthermore, GlobalX have been rumored to have acquired 10 former Volotea frames with service entry slated for October 2022.

This leaves a well cared for fleet with Qantas plus the remaining lower cycle late build Volotea aircraft available at presumably very attractive rates. BW could work out an arrangement with Delta for services and support (similar to GlobalX). ATL is not too far from the Caribbean, after all. Could be a golden out-of-the-box fleet acquisition strategy for BW. We know the 717 is optimal for the short haul, high cycle, quick turnaround assignments. Delta’s commitment to end of decade and GlobalX’s planned acquisition strengthen the viability for the next 7-8 years, at least. Not to mention HA’s loyalty, who may be the final operator one day.

embraer175e2 wrote:

INFINITI329 wrote:

baje427 wrote:

The 717 is long in the tooth, the newest are heading towards two decades old. The 717 will follow it's older siblings into retirement in in another couple years.

While I agree the 717 is old it still has some life left . For inter-Caribbean travel, I think It is perfect. BW could acquire these birds way cheaper than A220s or E2s. Boeing would love nothing more than place some of their stored 717s at a new airline, especially at one they have an existing relationship with which would translate into BW getting an extremely beneficial deal. Adding a new frame and keeping the associated debt low is a win-win for any airline, especially for a small airline like BW. Just my It appears in there will be a 4th 717 operator US-based Global X has job postings for 717 flight crew, but they do not officially have the 717 in their fleet as of yet. So finding new homes for 717s is not so far-fetched.

aa1818 wrote:

POS-IAH? Do the E2s have the legs for this?
POS-IAD? Do they have the legs for this?
GEO-IAH? Do they have the legs for this?

Going strictly by the book ranges it could be argued maybe. The 190E2 has a range of 2850 nm and the 195E2 has a range of 2600nm. Once you factor in bags and hot weather those numbers will change

POS-IAH 2227nm
POS-IAD 1904nm
GEO-IAH 2521nm

Air temperature doesnt affect range.

It does, becasue it can limit maximum take off weight with limits how much fuel can be carried.

LIAT 1974 Ltd is to be liquidated by its shareholders

https://www.stvincenttimes.com/liat-197 ... reholders/

Wonder when Caribbean will "return" to San Juan (they flew there many years as BWIA)

aa1818 wrote:

maverick4002 wrote:

I must commend you for your constant bashing of BW. You are consistent. Acting as if AA isnt in the same position BW was in a lot of markets and price gouging the same way. Thats what airlines do. And as if AA / B6 care about GEO, they are only there becuase of the oil boom but it is what it is. Continue to hold BW to different standards than the others

I feel like when trying to explain that BW is simply doing what any other carrier would do. On the one hand he bashes the airline for price gousing on GEO-JFK and on the other hand continuously questions their decision not to flood the POS-JFK market in a pandemic with capacity.

AA1818

If you werent so blinded by some personal animosity that you have with me you would have noted that I offered an explanation for their JFK POS cut in service. A structural decline in the JFK POS VFR, and low yields. And also that JFK GEO is now well served so JFK POS is no longer propped up by intransits to GEO. BW reduced its fleet by 3 jets for the time being as it reequiped and JFK/FLL POS got the chop. Now fares on the JFK POS are higher and Trinis are now bawling.

Clearly you are NOT Guyanese so are unaware of the extreme animosity that Guyanese had towards BW JFK GEO fares. You are not Guyanese so I understand why you do not understand this and why the GY gov't did what it can to entice competition on this route. AA doesnt do JFK POS. So why GEO? In the spring both AA and B6 offered very low fares on this route.


And JFK GEO is NOT an oil route. MIA GEO is the route that handles this as most of this traffic either originates in TX, or n FL where most US corporations locate their Caribbean focused operations.


And as for my BW bashing. You should have gone on FB in the days when BW had a monopoly on the JFK GEO. I think that some Guyanese compared BW to the devil with a plot to destroy Guyanese. IMHO they just took advantage of a monopoly and the loud protests about it attracted others and now JFK GEO is now a fiercely competitive route. When a company doesnt listen to its customers others take advantage.

A388 wrote:

caribny wrote:

Again, CAL did what any airline would have done in a monopoly situation. The fact that AA and B6 entered the market was a matter of time no matter how CAL treated that market. Just like how AA now also flies to Surinam. They see potential with no competition except PY.

A388

AAs MIA PBM wasnt inevitable. Had Suriname not emerged as a oil producer AA wouldnt have ventured there. In fact even AAs daily MIA GEO is because of this growing oil business. Before that AA turned up its nose at the desperate attempts by the GY gov't to attract them. Prior to this PY struggled to fill its MIA PBM planes and had to rely on travel on the MIA GEO sector to allow this route to be viable. They were never able to sustain nonstop MIA PBM service even after many attempts.

It has been a while but I have just returned from my first trip to Trinidad and Tobago in 2 and a half years. I share some observations and reflections on various aviation matters there.

1. Caribbean Airlines appear to have their house in order and are running very well. They have turned over their jet fleet, retired the 737-800s (one of which flew to St Athan DGX, not far from Cardiff where I write this, on its last journey) and the 737-8s are doing well. For the most part there seemed to be few delays. Overall they seem to be taking a measured approach in ramping up their operations and this is working brilliantly for them.

2. I only flew BW on the domestic route between POS and TAB. While there were a few complaints about capacity on this route (which arise especially during peak periods like summer) the services themselves ran smoothly. They have run the 737-8s on a few flights a day to help things out. The standby list is now managed better with information screens indicating passengers who have been accepted onto given flights throughout the day. I suspect that part of the issue with this service is that, with forex being a problem in T&T, more people are holidaying in TAB rather than overseas. BW run 15 flights per day now, still down from the 20 or more that were standard pre-pandemic.

3. Both POS and TAB airports operated without significant hiccups but one gets the impression that traffic remains significantly down at both. In POS, the western ramp, which used to be where LI operated from, was eerily quiet without them. This hints that LI had a role in POS despite many claiming otherwise. The slow recovery of regional traffic is also a factor and it appears that BW is gladly taking this market in POS. TAB's international traffic comprises just 5 weekly flights (1 VS A330 to LHR via BGI (no local traffic), 1 BA 777 to LGW via ANU, 1 BW 737-8 to JFK and 2 ATRs to BGI). It is a bit unfortunate that international arrivals in TAB have been slower to recover than elsewhere in the region although a more conservative approach to COVID restrictions has been part of the issue.

4. On a happier note, POS is to regain a spotting area. The viewing area upstairs in the main terminal, which had previously hosted a Pizza Boys outlet and which was closed after they shut, is to be refurbished and reopened for spotting. The AATT have finally responded to calls by local spotters to have a viewing area. Some local media erroneously referred to it as a waving gallery but this will not be the case. There is also conversation of a second viewing area in the old south terminal which will be privately run.

As my first foray into the Caribbean scene after a long break, I think things are moving steadily in the right direction.
Trintocan.

caribny wrote:

A388 wrote:

[

A388

Bad management is when you have a route which is profitable because of high yields and loads (an airline's dream) and you anger the market by high fares and at times suboptimal ground service. !

Core components of monopolies. Same with LIAT and the gawdful service it provided, Will Caribbean Airlines be able to dig itself out of the hole of its own making? Only time will tell.

trintocan wrote:

It has been a while but I have just returned from my first trip to Trinidad and Tobago in 2 and a half years. I share some observations and reflections on various aviation matters there.

1. Caribbean Airlines appear to have their house in order and are running very well. They have turned over their jet fleet, retired the 737-800s (one of which flew to St Athan DGX, not far from Cardiff where I write this, on its last journey) and the 737-8s are doing well. For the most part there seemed to be few delays. Overall they seem to be taking a measured approach in ramping up their operations and this is working brilliantly for them.

2. I only flew BW on the domestic route between POS and TAB. While there were a few complaints about capacity on this route (which arise especially during peak periods like summer) the services themselves ran smoothly. They have run the 737-8s on a few flights a day to help things out. The standby list is now managed better with information screens indicating passengers who have been accepted onto given flights throughout the day. I suspect that part of the issue with this service is that, with forex being a problem in T&T, more people are holidaying in TAB rather than overseas. BW run 15 flights per day now, still down from the 20 or more that were standard pre-pandemic.

3. Both POS and TAB airports operated without significant hiccups but one gets the impression that traffic remains significantly down at both. In POS, the western ramp, which used to be where LI operated from, was eerily quiet without them. This hints that LI had a role in POS despite many claiming otherwise. The slow recovery of regional traffic is also a factor and it appears that BW is gladly taking this market in POS. TAB's international traffic comprises just 5 weekly flights (1 VS A330 to LHR via BGI (no local traffic), 1 BA 777 to LGW via ANU, 1 BW 737-8 to JFK and 2 ATRs to BGI). It is a bit unfortunate that international arrivals in TAB have been slower to recover than elsewhere in the region although a more conservative approach to COVID restrictions has been part of the issue.

4. On a happier note, POS is to regain a spotting area. The viewing area upstairs in the main terminal, which had previously hosted a Pizza Boys outlet and which was closed after they shut, is to be refurbished and reopened for spotting. The AATT have finally responded to calls by local spotters to have a viewing area. Some local media erroneously referred to it as a waving gallery but this will not be the case. There is also conversation of a second viewing area in the old south terminal which will be privately run.

As my first foray into the Caribbean scene after a long break, I think things are moving steadily in the right direction.
Trintocan.

It’s not just forex issues. The US embassy in Trinidad is currently backlogged about 7-8 months for visa applications. That is to say if you begin the process now, your interview and final approval won’t take place until March/April of next year. That will inhibit demand for travel to/via the US as well.

I just saw a post on BW's FB page but it seems to be gone now? They were announcing 3w flights between POS and Bahamas. Is this happening? Is it a direct flight?

Edit: here it is on the instagram https://www.instagram.com/p/Cg_262SOGhU/

embraer175e2 wrote:

LIAT 1974 Ltd is to be liquidated by its shareholders

https://www.stvincenttimes.com/liat-197 ... reholders/

If a new LIAT is to be rebuilt out of the ashes, would this negatively impact their ability to serve the U.S. territories, given the FAA's downgrading of the Eastern Caribbean Civil Aviation Authority to Category 2 status back in 2020?

maverick4002 wrote:

I just saw a post on BW's FB page but it seems to be gone now? They were announcing 3w flights between POS and Bahamas. Is this happening? Is it a direct flight?

Edit: here it is on the instagram https://www.instagram.com/p/Cg_262SOGhU/

I suspect this is POS-KIN-NAS

dominicl316 wrote:

embraer175e2 wrote:

LIAT 1974 Ltd is to be liquidated by its shareholders

https://www.stvincenttimes.com/liat-197 ... reholders/

If a new LIAT is to be rebuilt out of the ashes, would this negatively impact their ability to serve the U.S. territories, given the FAA's downgrading of the Eastern Caribbean Civil Aviation Authority to Category 2 status back in 2020?

I don't see this new version getting off the ground anytime soon. Getting funding is the bigger concern I believe.

baje427 wrote:

dominicl316 wrote:

embraer175e2 wrote:

LIAT 1974 Ltd is to be liquidated by its shareholders

https://www.stvincenttimes.com/liat-197 ... reholders/

If a new LIAT is to be rebuilt out of the ashes, would this negatively impact their ability to serve the U.S. territories, given the FAA's downgrading of the Eastern Caribbean Civil Aviation Authority to Category 2 status back in 2020?

I don't see this new version getting off the ground anytime soon. Getting funding is the bigger concern I believe.

Who is taking over all their routes?