Midwestindy wrote:

Got asked about AA yield data through CMH, similar to what I posted on another thread. Below are the numbers for Q1 '22

Might make more sense to compare WN in CMH's case, since WN has ~10% more share than AA in CMH, but here it is:

DFW surprised me, I'd expect CMH to be closer to average there. DCA-CMH underperformance is due to WN surely.
Haven't figured out how to shrink images.

Thanks very much for posting this; I find the information to be very interesting. I didn't realize the strength of CLT O&D from CMH. DCA was also a big surprise for me. I didn't think WN's presence would suppress demand and yield on AA that much, considering the legacy of the route.

flyCMH wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

Got asked about AA yield data through CMH, similar to what I posted on another thread. Below are the numbers for Q1 '22

Might make more sense to compare WN in CMH's case, since WN has ~10% more share than AA in CMH, but here it is:

DFW surprised me, I'd expect CMH to be closer to average there. DCA-CMH underperformance is due to WN surely.
Haven't figured out how to shrink images.

Thanks very much for posting this; I find the information to be very interesting. I didn't realize the strength of CLT O&D from CMH. DCA was also a big surprise for me. I didn't think WN's presence would suppress demand and yield on AA that much, considering the legacy of the route.

I wonder how much of an impact WN to DAL has on AA to DFW.

DeltaRules wrote:

flyCMH wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

Got asked about AA yield data through CMH, similar to what I posted on another thread. Below are the numbers for Q1 '22

Might make more sense to compare WN in CMH's case, since WN has ~10% more share than AA in CMH, but here it is:

DFW surprised me, I'd expect CMH to be closer to average there. DCA-CMH underperformance is due to WN surely.
Haven't figured out how to shrink images.

Thanks very much for posting this; I find the information to be very interesting. I didn't realize the strength of CLT O&D from CMH. DCA was also a big surprise for me. I didn't think WN's presence would suppress demand and yield on AA that much, considering the legacy of the route.

I wonder how much of an impact WN to DAL has on AA to DFW.

That would be interesting to track. Anecdotally, DFW has seem some big time increases in capacity lately with (3) A321s and (1) 738, which is probably the most seats per day CMH has ever had to DFW on a consistent basis. Even CLT continues to see heavy mainline resulting in a fairly even amount of seats compared to the pre-pandemic 7-8 CR9s or 175s with a CR7 thrown in too.

I think there is a good chance we will continue to see increasing mainline at CMH across all carriers given the competitive market and need to deploy resources where they best fit both demand and the ability to fly the flights. Another thread mentioned the block time piece and it kinda dawned on me that we are an hour or less flight (more or less) from EWR, PHL, LGA, JFK, DCA, CLT, ATL, DTW, ORD, and YYZ- meaning a great level of flexibility in what can be assigned to fly here without a significant impact. Its not uncommon at all to see AA sub 320 and 321 for the 319s to CLT for example.

I guess the interesting times will continue. Very excited to see what we get in the next tranche of federal grant funds for airports.

Speaking of capacity increases, how is it that more midsize cities like PIT, RIC, ORF, CHS, and BNA get DL 757s but ATL-CMH remains a 739/738 hotbed? I'd imagine they'll become more short-haul birds again with fuel prices climbing and the places I listed getting them in between Florida runs, but it's a bit annoying (especially since the gaspers on the 739 are worthless on hot days).

DeltaRules wrote:

Speaking of capacity increases, how is it that more midsize cities like PIT, RIC, ORF, CHS, and BNA get DL 757s but ATL-CMH remains a 739/738 hotbed? I'd imagine they'll become more short-haul birds again with fuel prices climbing and the places I listed getting them in between Florida runs, but it's a bit annoying (especially since the gaspers on the 739 are worthless on hot days).

Yeah, I've been likewise annoyed by the absence of the 757 on CMH-ATL when other similar markets get them. I guess CMH is just outside whatever algorithm DL is using to justify that aircraft on the route. But given the still-precarious state of the industry, I'll take what we can get. Still keeping hope alive for the return of CLE/CMH/IND/PIT-SLC by year's end, also.

flyCMH wrote:

DeltaRules wrote:

Speaking of capacity increases, how is it that more midsize cities like PIT, RIC, ORF, CHS, and BNA get DL 757s but ATL-CMH remains a 739/738 hotbed? I'd imagine they'll become more short-haul birds again with fuel prices climbing and the places I listed getting them in between Florida runs, but it's a bit annoying (especially since the gaspers on the 739 are worthless on hot days).

Yeah, I've been likewise annoyed by the absence of the 757 on CMH-ATL when other similar markets get them. I guess CMH is just outside whatever algorithm DL is using to justify that aircraft on the route. But given the still-precarious state of the industry, I'll take what we can get. Still keeping hope alive for the return of CLE/CMH/IND/PIT-SLC by year's end, also.

DL faces nonstop competition from WN on its ATL-CMH/BNA/PIT/RIC routes.

DL doesn't currently have nonstop competition on ATL-CHS/ORF, even though WN had plans to resume ATL-ORF nonstop service and start ATL-CHS nonstop service prior to the COVID-19 pandemic.

I am surprised that DL doesn't have 757's on CMH-ATL when DL has 757's on some other routes out of ATL that have nonstop competition from WN (including some markets smaller than that of CMH such as RIC).

DL will be taking delivery of additional A320neo planes, which have similar capacity to that of DL's 757-200's.

DL's 737-900ER's also have 180 seats, which is only 13 seats less than that of DL's 193-seat 757-200's.

CMH also has more nonstop service to Florida than markets such as CHS, RIC, and ORF do, and there are likely fewer passengers making connections through ATL from CMH on DL with the additional nonstop flights that are there to Florida from CMH.

brooklynchris13 wrote:

Sorry to see in another thread that Toledo is loosing service on AA, leaving only Allegiant serving the Airport. Got me thinking though, how many airports used to have mainline service in Ohio, but no longer do. I think we might have talked about this a few years ago, but did we ever create the definitive list?
From memory I know the commercial airports below, would be interesting to know when they lost service:
Columbus (CMH); still served
Columbus (LCK); still served
Cleveland (CLE); still served
Cleveland (BKL) Burke Lakefront; dates?
Cincinnati (LUK) Luken; dates?
Cincinnati (CVG) still served
Akron-Canton (CAK); dates?
Akron-Fulton (???); dates?
Findlay? Dates?
Lima; Dates?
Mansfield; Dates?
Marion; Dates?
Youngstown; Dates?
Zanesville; Dates?

Youngstown (YNG) - Northwest left YNG on September 8, 2002: https://vindyarchives.com/news/2002/jun ... esnt-mean/

A view from an archived webpage for YNG shows at one time they had service aboard US Air (to PIT), United (to ORD), Continental (not sure where on this one), and Northwest (DTW): http://web.archive.org/web/200008230309 ... wrairport/

Is this the first live pax Breeze A220-300 to fly into CMH?

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/MXY ... /KCHS/KCMH

YNGguins wrote:

brooklynchris13 wrote:

Sorry to see in another thread that Toledo is loosing service on AA, leaving only Allegiant serving the Airport. Got me thinking though, how many airports used to have mainline service in Ohio, but no longer do. I think we might have talked about this a few years ago, but did we ever create the definitive list?
From memory I know the commercial airports below, would be interesting to know when they lost service:
Columbus (CMH); still served
Columbus (LCK); still served
Cleveland (CLE); still served
Cleveland (BKL) Burke Lakefront; dates?
Cincinnati (LUK) Luken; dates?
Cincinnati (CVG) still served
Akron-Canton (CAK); dates?
Akron-Fulton (???); dates?
Findlay? Dates?
Lima; Dates?
Mansfield; Dates?
Marion; Dates?
Youngstown; Dates?
Zanesville; Dates?

Youngstown (YNG) - Northwest left YNG on September 8, 2002: https://vindyarchives.com/news/2002/jun ... esnt-mean/

A view from an archived webpage for YNG shows at one time they had service aboard US Air (to PIT), United (to ORD), Continental (not sure where on this one), and Northwest (DTW): http://web.archive.org/web/200008230309 ... wrairport/

YNG actually had UA jet service in the mid 80's via Air Wisconsin using BAE 146 equipment ... to ORD via TOL with a 20 minute stop at TOL

It's been quiet on here, this week. Thought I'd just chime in to keep things lively.

Any updates on:
* Service expansions/reductions?
* Progress on CMH taxiway relocation?
* Status on new CMH terminal construction?
* Pax numbers?

CMHMarc787 wrote:

It's been quiet on here, this week. Thought I'd just chime in to keep things lively.

Any updates on:
* Service expansions/reductions?
* Progress on CMH taxiway relocation?
* Status on new CMH terminal construction?
* Pax numbers?

I checked in today for the same reason, it has been quiet! The good news is that the CRAA Board meeting agenda for this month should be out soon with updates on some of your questions.

We won’t get it from the agenda, but I’m quite interested in how the new-ish CMH-AUS service on WN is performing.

CMHtraveler wrote:

CMHMarc787 wrote:

It's been quiet on here, this week. Thought I'd just chime in to keep things lively.

Any updates on:
* Service expansions/reductions?
* Progress on CMH taxiway relocation?
* Status on new CMH terminal construction?
* Pax numbers?

I checked in today for the same reason, it has been quiet! The good news is that the CRAA Board meeting agenda for this month should be out soon with updates on some of your questions.

We won’t get it from the agenda, but I’m quite interested in how the new-ish CMH-AUS service on WN is performing.

All I want are my DL 757s, both because "it's a 757" and "the person who designed the gaspers on the 739s deserves to find another job". IND has two of them on RONs tonight and PIT has one and it's driving the most inner-workings of my avgeekery bananas.

If that's the main observation I have to share, I'm guessing things are going about as well as they can.

Lol, was loaded last week, but DL has scheduled an extra CR9 on CVG-ATL beginning September 12. They must be really desperate to have more routes for the CVG-based 9E crew to fly.

a320flyer wrote:

Lol, was loaded last week, but DL has scheduled an extra CR9 on CVG-ATL beginning September 12. They must be really desperate to have more routes for the CVG-based 9E crew to fly.

Do you know if that is an addition or did it replace another flight?

DeltaRules wrote:

CMHtraveler wrote:

CMHMarc787 wrote:

It's been quiet on here, this week. Thought I'd just chime in to keep things lively.

Any updates on:
* Service expansions/reductions?
* Progress on CMH taxiway relocation?
* Status on new CMH terminal construction?
* Pax numbers?

I checked in today for the same reason, it has been quiet! The good news is that the CRAA Board meeting agenda for this month should be out soon with updates on some of your questions.

We won’t get it from the agenda, but I’m quite interested in how the new-ish CMH-AUS service on WN is performing.

All I want are my DL 757s, both because "it's a 757" and "the person who designed the gaspers on the 739s deserves to find another job". IND has two of them on RONs tonight and PIT has one and it's driving the most inner-workings of my avgeekery bananas.

If that's the main observation I have to share, I'm guessing things are going about as well as they can.

I remember quite well back in the day when I worked the ramp for Delta in CMH, there was one schedule that had all but 1 flight to ATL (727) all the others going to CVG and ATL were 757’s. I missed working the ramp. Too bad my body could not handle it now.

beertrucker wrote:

DeltaRules wrote:

CMHtraveler wrote:

I checked in today for the same reason, it has been quiet! The good news is that the CRAA Board meeting agenda for this month should be out soon with updates on some of your questions.

We won’t get it from the agenda, but I’m quite interested in how the new-ish CMH-AUS service on WN is performing.

All I want are my DL 757s, both because "it's a 757" and "the person who designed the gaspers on the 739s deserves to find another job". IND has two of them on RONs tonight and PIT has one and it's driving the most inner-workings of my avgeekery bananas.

If that's the main observation I have to share, I'm guessing things are going about as well as they can.

I remember quite well back in the day when I worked the ramp for Delta in CMH, there was one schedule that had all but 1 flight to ATL (727) all the others going to CVG and ATL were 757’s. I missed working the ramp. Too bad my body could not handle it now.

I remember the days when DL, UA, HP, and TW all had 757s scheduled into CMH. It doesn't seem like that long ago, but I guess it really has been a while. I worked ramp/CS at UA in CMH and always loved when we would get the 7-5 in the schedule. As a huge 757 fan myself, I too would love to see DL replace just one of the 737 flights with a 757 to ATL. While there's none in sight in the latest schedule update, there is some good news: effective September 12, the last DTW turn is upgauged from a CR7 to a 717.

flyCMH wrote:

beertrucker wrote:

DeltaRules wrote:

All I want are my DL 757s, both because "it's a 757" and "the person who designed the gaspers on the 739s deserves to find another job". IND has two of them on RONs tonight and PIT has one and it's driving the most inner-workings of my avgeekery bananas.

If that's the main observation I have to share, I'm guessing things are going about as well as they can.

I remember quite well back in the day when I worked the ramp for Delta in CMH, there was one schedule that had all but 1 flight to ATL (727) all the others going to CVG and ATL were 757’s. I missed working the ramp. Too bad my body could not handle it now.

I remember the days when DL, UA, HP, and TW all had 757s scheduled into CMH. It doesn't seem like that long ago, but I guess it really has been a while. I worked ramp/CS at UA in CMH and always loved when we would get the 7-5 in the schedule. As a huge 757 fan myself, I too would love to see DL replace just one of the 737 flights with a 757 to ATL. While there's none in sight in the latest schedule update, there is some good news: effective September 12, the last DTW turn is upgauged from a CR7 to a 717.

Huh- I never realized TW ran 757s into CMH, but I remember them from the other three. There was another user a few years ago who said US ran 757s to PIT, but I never saw anything other than DC-9s/Fokkers/737s/Express.

Mainline to DTW returning is good news. I wonder if it'll work its way up to bigger types again; remember, the DTW RON was supposed to be an A321 just after COVID started.

a320flyer wrote:

Lol, was loaded last week, but DL has scheduled an extra CR9 on CVG-ATL beginning September 12. They must be really desperate to have more routes for the CVG-based 9E crew to fly.

Boy, that's an interesting add. At least it might be for operational reasons as opposed to a massive downgauge- I survived the 2006-2008 era when DL dumped CMH-ATL to ERJ/E70/CR7s with a couple mainline flights thrown in and don't want that ever again. (Thank you, FL.)

CMHMarc787 wrote:

It's been quiet on here, this week. Thought I'd just chime in to keep things lively.

Any updates on:
* Service expansions/reductions?
* Progress on CMH taxiway relocation?
* Status on new CMH terminal construction?
* Pax numbers?

Do you or anyone else have the final movement / placement of terminal area. I know they did not choose a terminal design yet. However I just looked back but I was not scanning all pages. I would love to see plans / progress as it goes.

beertrucker wrote:

CMHMarc787 wrote:

It's been quiet on here, this week. Thought I'd just chime in to keep things lively.

Any updates on:
* Service expansions/reductions?
* Progress on CMH taxiway relocation?
* Status on new CMH terminal construction?
* Pax numbers?

Do you or anyone else have the final movement / placement of terminal area. I know they did not choose a terminal design yet. However I just looked back but I was not scanning all pages. I would love to see plans / progress as it goes.

Good Morning. Yes, its going onto the south side of International Gateway, directly across from the new rental car facility and west of the Control Tower. Basically where the Red Parking Lot and the Cell Phone waiting lot are now.

brooklynchris13 wrote:

beertrucker wrote:

CMHMarc787 wrote:

It's been quiet on here, this week. Thought I'd just chime in to keep things lively.

Any updates on:
* Service expansions/reductions?
* Progress on CMH taxiway relocation?
* Status on new CMH terminal construction?
* Pax numbers?

Do you or anyone else have the final movement / placement of terminal area. I know they did not choose a terminal design yet. However I just looked back but I was not scanning all pages. I would love to see plans / progress as it goes.

Good Morning. Yes, its going onto the south side of International Gateway, directly across from the new rental car facility and west of the Control Tower. Basically where the Red Parking Lot and the Cell Phone waiting lot are now.

Knew it was there just was not sure about the new taxiway and all that comes was seeing if there was a plan map out there or not.

CMHMarc787 wrote:

It's been quiet on here, this week. Thought I'd just chime in to keep things lively.

Any updates on:
* Service expansions/reductions?
* Progress on CMH taxiway relocation?
* Status on new CMH terminal construction?
* Pax numbers?

The July CRAA Board agenda is out which means your pax numbers question can be answered. June was up 20% from 2021 with 692k pax, about 89% of 2019 numbers for the month. Year-to-date is running at about 85% of 2019, but up 55% from last year.

Everyone made YOY gains except NK, whose operational meltdown and resulting schedule cuts have them down 38% from June last year. The most dramatic change on the positive side is UA, whose upguages, restorations, and increased frequencies have them up 68%(!) from June 2021.

https://columbusairports.com/storage/pr ... erials.pdf

DeltaRules wrote:

CMHtraveler wrote:

CMHMarc787 wrote:

It's been quiet on here, this week. Thought I'd just chime in to keep things lively.

Any updates on:
* Service expansions/reductions?
* Progress on CMH taxiway relocation?
* Status on new CMH terminal construction?
* Pax numbers?

I checked in today for the same reason, it has been quiet! The good news is that the CRAA Board meeting agenda for this month should be out soon with updates on some of your questions.

We won’t get it from the agenda, but I’m quite interested in how the new-ish CMH-AUS service on WN is performing.

All I want are my DL 757s, both because "it's a 757" and "the person who designed the gaspers on the 739s deserves to find another job". IND has two of them on RONs tonight and PIT has one and it's driving the most inner-workings of my avgeekery bananas.

If that's the main observation I have to share, I'm guessing things are going about as well as they can.

Same! And you have no idea how frustrating it is when I've been out flying this summer and seeing DL 757s in RIC and ORF, Actually, in RIC, there was one at the gate and another touching down as we taxied out. Couldn't believe it.

beertrucker wrote:

brooklynchris13 wrote:

beertrucker wrote:

Do you or anyone else have the final movement / placement of terminal area. I know they did not choose a terminal design yet. However I just looked back but I was not scanning all pages. I would love to see plans / progress as it goes.

Good Morning. Yes, its going onto the south side of International Gateway, directly across from the new rental car facility and west of the Control Tower. Basically where the Red Parking Lot and the Cell Phone waiting lot are now.

Knew it was there just was not sure about the new taxiway and all that comes was seeing if there was a plan map out there or not.

Detailed design work is underway now. The general configuration has been established for awhile now with the plans previously posted. The CRAA meeting minutes detail the plan to move the taxiway that runs on the northside of 10R/28L closer to the runway to allow more room for the new terminal. Phase one is the western portion of that project and involves moving some other equipment as well. I would expect the public input phase of the design phase to
Come pretty quickly as they will want to use the finalized plans for grant applications and other funding requests. Every month that we can show growth back towards the 2019 baseline is a good one.

On that note we seem to have been stuck at the 10-11% off number for a few months, have to wonder if that is at least in part the combination of remaining challenges in international travel and a possible permanent reduction in business travel. If true, that may mean a little longer to get to 2019 levels (maybe 2023) and exceed them (2024?). Which would put the airport at the magic 9M number probably in 2025. That bodes well for the timeline of the new airport terminal…. Meaning the existing terminal will only have to deal with a year or two of being max’d out in capacity (if trends continue and lord knows they may not).

Does anyone have any insight on how convention business is looking in CMH in the next year or two? That will also be a big driver…

AirportRival wrote:

a320flyer wrote:

Lol, was loaded last week, but DL has scheduled an extra CR9 on CVG-ATL beginning September 12. They must be really desperate to have more routes for the CVG-based 9E crew to fly.

Do you know if that is an addition or did it replace another flight?

I don’t know the exact timeline, but the future schedule has been at 7x/day, but they’re rolled it down to 6x/day for most of the past year. This flight adds a 7th daily to the schedule for Sept/Oct, so while technically a downguage, I think it’s likely they would have been doing 6x/day during this period.

DeltaRules wrote:

Boy, that's an interesting add. At least it might be for operational reasons as opposed to a massive downgauge- I survived the 2006-2008 era when DL dumped CMH-ATL to ERJ/E70/CR7s with a couple mainline flights thrown in and don't want that ever again. (Thank you, FL.)

Yeah, I’m pretty confident it’s related to the 9E base. Not too long ago (2020/2021), the late night frequency was operated on a 767.

Looks like CMH-AUS is off the schedule after New Years. Hopefully only temporary.

cmhman wrote:

Looks like CMH-AUS is off the schedule after New Years. Hopefully only temporary.

Wonder if AA will jump onto that route given their mostly successful (I think) efforts to turn AUS into a big time focus city.

Any sightings/rumors of SLC returning or, equally exciting, LAX.

brooklynchris13 wrote:

cmhman wrote:

Looks like CMH-AUS is off the schedule after New Years. Hopefully only temporary.

Wonder if AA will jump onto that route given their mostly successful (I think) efforts to turn AUS into a big time focus city.

Any sightings/rumors of SLC returning or, equally exciting, LAX.

Where are you seeing that? The WN app is selling CMH-AUS at it’s current 1x daily all the way through the end of the schedule in March. It does change times a bit before landing on a 9:55a departure the second week of January.

brooklynchris13 wrote:

cmhman wrote:

Looks like CMH-AUS is off the schedule after New Years. Hopefully only temporary.

Wonder if AA will jump onto that route given their mostly successful (I think) efforts to turn AUS into a big time focus city.

Any sightings/rumors of SLC returning or, equally exciting, LAX.

Not loaded on the current schedule but Its rumored for SLC-IND/PIT/CLE/CMH to all come back summer 2023.

CMHtraveler wrote:

brooklynchris13 wrote:

cmhman wrote:

Looks like CMH-AUS is off the schedule after New Years. Hopefully only temporary.

Wonder if AA will jump onto that route given their mostly successful (I think) efforts to turn AUS into a big time focus city.

Any sightings/rumors of SLC returning or, equally exciting, LAX.

Where are you seeing that? The WN app is selling CMH-AUS at it’s current 1x daily all the way through the end of the schedule in March. It does change times a bit before landing on a 9:55a departure the second week of January.

Ah I see now, maybe you were looking at a Saturday? Looks like it goes 6x weekly (no Saturdays) after New Years. That’s unfortunate but not a total loss of the route.

CMHtraveler wrote:

CMHtraveler wrote:

brooklynchris13 wrote:

Wonder if AA will jump onto that route given their mostly successful (I think) efforts to turn AUS into a big time focus city.

Any sightings/rumors of SLC returning or, equally exciting, LAX.

Where are you seeing that? The WN app is selling CMH-AUS at it’s current 1x daily all the way through the end of the schedule in March. It does change times a bit before landing on a 9:55a departure the second week of January.

Ah I see now, maybe you were looking at a Saturday? Looks like it goes 6x weekly (no Saturdays) after New Years. That’s unfortunate but not a total loss of the route.

Yeah, I think I was looking at Saturday! Good to know!

United announced today their plan to fly a host of extra sections for college football games this season:

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 93256.html

Columbus Business First also caught wind of this announcement and added the information for the extra section to SCE:

https://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/ne ... -2022.html

Looking at the schedules, MSN-CMH-MSN will be on a 739, CID-CMH-CID on a 319, and CMH-SCE-CMH on a CR2.

flyCMH wrote:

United announced today their plan to fly a host of extra sections for college football games this season:

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 93256.html

Columbus Business First also caught wind of this announcement and added the information for the extra section to SCE:

https://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/ne ... -2022.html

Looking at the schedules, MSN-CMH-MSN will be on a 739, CID-CMH-CID on a 319, and CMH-SCE-CMH on a CR2.

C
CMH-SCE-CMH??? Wow, the people taking that flight must have a ton of money to piss away. Columbus to State College is 5.5 hours. Fans typically drive to that game and it's an easy shot down I-70. Most East Division Big Ten games are in driving range from Columbus. The only Big Ten games that fans might possibly fly to is Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, and Nebraska.

I think the death of the NK-F9 merger and NK’s sudden embrace of B6 is bad news for CMH. DOJ may kill it of course, but if approved I can see the loss of many or all NK routes. It’s clear AA is supposed to handle the Midwest stations as part of the NEA and B6 will likely redeploy NK aircraft to bolster it’s costal operations. Too bad really, as I think NK has done a terrific job carving out a niche here as well as serving some long thin routes like CMH-LAX. Is anyone not as pessimistic about this merger news?

CMHtraveler wrote:

I think the death of the NK-F9 merger and NK’s sudden embrace of B6 is bad news for CMH. DOJ may kill it of course, but if approved I can see the loss of many or all NK routes. It’s clear AA is supposed to handle the Midwest stations as part of the NEA and B6 will likely redeploy NK aircraft to bolster it’s costal operations. Too bad really, as I think NK has done a terrific job carving out a niche here as well as serving some long thin routes like CMH-LAX. Is anyone not as pessimistic about this merger news?

NEA is only 2 cities. It might mean B6 doesn’t fly to NYC/BOS from CMH but they don’t have agreements on the other routes. I think JetBlue will keep a fair amount to others. FLL for sure would be a good one

CMHtraveler wrote:

I think the death of the NK-F9 merger and NK’s sudden embrace of B6 is bad news for CMH. DOJ may kill it of course, but if approved I can see the loss of many or all NK routes. It’s clear AA is supposed to handle the Midwest stations as part of the NEA and B6 will likely redeploy NK aircraft to bolster it’s costal operations. Too bad really, as I think NK has done a terrific job carving out a niche here as well as serving some long thin routes like CMH-LAX. Is anyone not as pessimistic about this merger news?

I think LAX, RSW, MSY, MYR, PNS will all go away. FLL and MCO should be safe. Maybe TPA is safe. Not sure they'd have success with BOS and JFK. Already well served by DL and AA. NK might not be for everyone but it has had its place here and I'll be sad to see them go. I've really never been interested in B6.

cmhman wrote:

CMHtraveler wrote:

I think the death of the NK-F9 merger and NK’s sudden embrace of B6 is bad news for CMH. DOJ may kill it of course, but if approved I can see the loss of many or all NK routes. It’s clear AA is supposed to handle the Midwest stations as part of the NEA and B6 will likely redeploy NK aircraft to bolster it’s costal operations. Too bad really, as I think NK has done a terrific job carving out a niche here as well as serving some long thin routes like CMH-LAX. Is anyone not as pessimistic about this merger news?

I think LAX, RSW, MSY, MYR, PNS will all go away. FLL and MCO should be safe. Maybe TPA is safe. Not sure they'd have success with BOS and JFK. Already well served by DL and AA. NK might not be for everyone but it has had its place here and I'll be sad to see them go. I've really never been interested in B6.

Interesting, another analysis I can’t link to on this site has CMH-LAX listed as likely safe.I think the theory is that with the additional LAX gates, B6 keeps the Midwest markets previously served by NK. I agree that the others are goners. LAS is a toss-up.

This merger definitely hits CVG too. The extra planes for F9 could have made CVG a major station for the combined airline, but now neither merging airline has a presence at CVG. Given they will be the 5th largest airline (and CVG has to be one of the largest, if not the largest, airport not served by either airline), hopefully they finally enter CVG.

cmhman wrote:

CMHtraveler wrote:

I think the death of the NK-F9 merger and NK’s sudden embrace of B6 is bad news for CMH. DOJ may kill it of course, but if approved I can see the loss of many or all NK routes. It’s clear AA is supposed to handle the Midwest stations as part of the NEA and B6 will likely redeploy NK aircraft to bolster it’s costal operations. Too bad really, as I think NK has done a terrific job carving out a niche here as well as serving some long thin routes like CMH-LAX. Is anyone not as pessimistic about this merger news?

I think LAX, RSW, MSY, MYR, PNS will all go away. FLL and MCO should be safe. Maybe TPA is safe. Not sure they'd have success with BOS and JFK. Already well served by DL and AA. NK might not be for everyone but it has had its place here and I'll be sad to see them go. I've really never been interested in B6.

I agree with your take here. Net negative for CMH not just due to loss of destinations, but lower fare choice as well. This may drive some to Allegiant but I suspect some of NKs business at CMH was folks who otherwise would not fly, especially to the southeast.

As for what it looks like with B6 at CMH- agree on no need for BOS or JFK, but FLL, MCO, TPA, and RSW hang on and probably LAX. Maybe another west coast destination or two could come out of this as well.

Overall, although I never flew them, I am sad to see them go. I even liked the yellow paint job, at least it was different!

brooklynchris13 wrote:

cmhman wrote:

CMHtraveler wrote:

I think the death of the NK-F9 merger and NK’s sudden embrace of B6 is bad news for CMH. DOJ may kill it of course, but if approved I can see the loss of many or all NK routes. It’s clear AA is supposed to handle the Midwest stations as part of the NEA and B6 will likely redeploy NK aircraft to bolster it’s costal operations. Too bad really, as I think NK has done a terrific job carving out a niche here as well as serving some long thin routes like CMH-LAX. Is anyone not as pessimistic about this merger news?

I think LAX, RSW, MSY, MYR, PNS will all go away. FLL and MCO should be safe. Maybe TPA is safe. Not sure they'd have success with BOS and JFK. Already well served by DL and AA. NK might not be for everyone but it has had its place here and I'll be sad to see them go. I've really never been interested in B6.

I agree with your take here. Net negative for CMH not just due to loss of destinations, but lower fare choice as well. This may drive some to Allegiant but I suspect some of NKs business at CMH was folks who otherwise would not fly, especially to the southeast.

As for what it looks like with B6 at CMH- agree on no need for BOS or JFK, but FLL, MCO, TPA, and RSW hang on and probably LAX. Maybe another west coast destination or two could come out of this as well.

Overall, although I never flew them, I am sad to see them go. I even liked the yellow paint job, at least it was different!

Between Big Front Seats and WiFi, they are/were a ULCC that was trying and were at least starting to raise the bar for ULCCs. It'll be a shame if they approve the merger and B6 buys them just to wipe them off the map WN/FL-style.

So how does the merger help anyone but the greed of B6? CMH won't be the only station cut. If the merger goes through, then it's one less option for the public and more control by a diminishing network of carriers.

DeltaRules wrote:

brooklynchris13 wrote:

cmhman wrote:

I think LAX, RSW, MSY, MYR, PNS will all go away. FLL and MCO should be safe. Maybe TPA is safe. Not sure they'd have success with BOS and JFK. Already well served by DL and AA. NK might not be for everyone but it has had its place here and I'll be sad to see them go. I've really never been interested in B6.

I agree with your take here. Net negative for CMH not just due to loss of destinations, but lower fare choice as well. This may drive some to Allegiant but I suspect some of NKs business at CMH was folks who otherwise would not fly, especially to the southeast.

As for what it looks like with B6 at CMH- agree on no need for BOS or JFK, but FLL, MCO, TPA, and RSW hang on and probably LAX. Maybe another west coast destination or two could come out of this as well.

Overall, although I never flew them, I am sad to see them go. I even liked the yellow paint job, at least it was different!

Between Big Front Seats and WiFi, they are/were a ULCC that was trying and were at least starting to raise the bar for ULCCs. It'll be a shame if they approve the merger and B6 buys them just to wipe them off the map WN/FL-style.

Yeah I didn’t like when FL went away and don’t like this either. My one experience with NK wasn’t great but I’d fly them again. They served a purpose here and that will be missed. My fear is JB drops the market altogether. Or they become a Frontier with only token service. Perhaps F9 will pick up the pieces if JB abandons the station. Hard to say.

a320flyer wrote:

This merger definitely hits CVG too. The extra planes for F9 could have made CVG a major station for the combined airline, but now neither merging airline has a presence at CVG. Given they will be the 5th largest airline (and CVG has to be one of the largest, if not the largest, airport not served by either airline), hopefully they finally enter CVG.

As a fellow CVG flyer, I agree with your point. On the other hand, it's hard to be sad over service that you never had. I don't think that the soon-to-be-enlarged B6 will continue to serve CMH for long. They served the Capital City once, then they flew the coop! JetBlue will continue to do what works for them, which is primarily serving the USA's East Coast, the West Coast, Florida, the Caribbean (and Mexico), and now, Europe. They will throw a few bones at the Midwest (CLE, ORD, etc.) to make a few bucks, but I don't expect to see any B6 aircraft at CMH or CVG except as charters a year from now and beyond.

What concerns me--and I haven't seen anything about this, or I've missed it--is what will happen to Spirit's employees and contractors. I just think that JetBlue would rather employ their own people to operate the expanded airline, even those currently on furlough, than to attempt to integrate Spirit's people into the mix. I was working for Comair full-time when American purchased and attempted to integrate the staff of Reno Air. Remember how well that went? (It did NOT go well AT ALL!) But, we shall see, and I would not mind being wrong about this!

Yes it will probably be a carbon copy of what Southwest did to Airtran when they merged. Elimination of a competitor, it will be amazing how the DOJ continues to allow these type of mergers if B6/NK is allowed

Just happened to see this Delta 757 on flightradar24 a while ago at CVG and checked out its registration: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N655DL. Interestingly it flew a point to point route from SAN to CVG. Now its going to fly from CVG to MIA on Sunday. I wonder if Delta is bring more point to point routes back to CVG or if its a cargo flight that just happened to be going to CVG. Speaking of CVG, Delta's nonstop CVG to CDG flight is returning next Tuesday so yay for Cincy.

CMHtraveler wrote:

I think the death of the NK-F9 merger and NK’s sudden embrace of B6 is bad news for CMH. DOJ may kill it of course, but if approved I can see the loss of many or all NK routes. It’s clear AA is supposed to handle the Midwest stations as part of the NEA and B6 will likely redeploy NK aircraft to bolster it’s costal operations. Too bad really, as I think NK has done a terrific job carving out a niche here as well as serving some long thin routes like CMH-LAX. Is anyone not as pessimistic about this merger news?

I am wondering what the future has in store for Jetblue at CMH.They pulled out once already, If JetBlue stays in CMH they may keep the Florida routes they would be competing with Southwest. I think
CMH-LAX/PNS/MSY/LAS/MYR will be cut. Its possible B6 could add JFK.

FlyingRocks wrote:

Just happened to see this Delta 757 on flightradar24 a while ago at CVG and checked out its registration: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N655DL. Interestingly it flew a point to point route from SAN to CVG. Now its going to fly from CVG to MIA on Sunday. I wonder if Delta is bring more point to point routes back to CVG or if its a cargo flight that just happened to be going to CVG. Speaking of CVG, Delta's nonstop CVG to CDG flight is returning next Tuesday so yay for Cincy.

Delta has a small subtfleet of 752s working charter flights, this is one of those.

Runway 10L/28R at CMH is currently closed for a small aircraft accident. Here’s a poor quality photo I took from the garage, looks like a single engine prop (cub?) runway excursion. Tower is telling other aircraft that as far as they know everyone is ok.

CMHtraveler wrote:

cmhman wrote:

CMHtraveler wrote:

I think the death of the NK-F9 merger and NK’s sudden embrace of B6 is bad news for CMH. DOJ may kill it of course, but if approved I can see the loss of many or all NK routes. It’s clear AA is supposed to handle the Midwest stations as part of the NEA and B6 will likely redeploy NK aircraft to bolster it’s costal operations. Too bad really, as I think NK has done a terrific job carving out a niche here as well as serving some long thin routes like CMH-LAX. Is anyone not as pessimistic about this merger news?

I think LAX, RSW, MSY, MYR, PNS will all go away. FLL and MCO should be safe. Maybe TPA is safe. Not sure they'd have success with BOS and JFK. Already well served by DL and AA. NK might not be for everyone but it has had its place here and I'll be sad to see them go. I've really never been interested in B6.

Interesting, another analysis I can’t link to on this site has CMH-LAX listed as likely safe.I think the theory is that with the additional LAX gates, B6 keeps the Midwest markets previously served by NK. I agree that the others are goners. LAS is a toss-up.

what happened to American Airlines CMH-LAX non stop.

doulasc wrote:

CMHtraveler wrote:

cmhman wrote:

I think LAX, RSW, MSY, MYR, PNS will all go away. FLL and MCO should be safe. Maybe TPA is safe. Not sure they'd have success with BOS and JFK. Already well served by DL and AA. NK might not be for everyone but it has had its place here and I'll be sad to see them go. I've really never been interested in B6.

Interesting, another analysis I can’t link to on this site has CMH-LAX listed as likely safe.I think the theory is that with the additional LAX gates, B6 keeps the Midwest markets previously served by NK. I agree that the others are goners. LAS is a toss-up.

what happened to American Airlines CMH-LAX non stop.

AA and DL to LAX were early pandemic victims. Especially sad because were planned to (or did) go double daily! Until business travel returns and international connections via LAX, it likely wont return on either legacy carrier.

F9 winter seasonal routes CMH-CUN and CMH-TPA have both been dropped from the schedule. Other carriers on these routes obviously, but it’s too bad to lose the option. Particularly CUN which was set to be 3x weekly instead of 1x like AA and WN.