Welcome to the Rest of Ohio Aviation Thread 2022. Please continue to post your news and your discussion here.

Link to previous thread:

The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Welcome to the 2022 regional thread for aviation in Ohio (except CLE- more on that later). This is sixth "annual" thread we've had where we've been able to have an ongoing regional hub for the Buckeye State and I'd like to thank everyone for continuing to keep these going and active.

Taking a lap around the state, the Ohio airports with/which could have scheduled service we primarily chat in these threads include:
-CVG (Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International Airport)- DL Hub/Focus City, G4 & F9 Focus City, large DHL/major Amazon Air hub, Endeavor crew base. (Yes, it's in Kentucky, but it's Cincinnati's airport. )
--LUK (Cincinnati Municipal Lunken Airport)- Home of Ultimate Air Shuttle.
-CMH (John Glenn Columbus International Airport)- Home of NetJets, Republic MX & crew base, Envoy MX base.
--LCK (Rickenbacker International Airport (Columbus))- Rapidly-developing international air cargo/logistics center, also served by G4.
-DAY (James M. Cox Dayton International Airport)- Home of PSA Airlines with a large MX and crew base, also houses an Air Wisconsin MX and F/A base.
-TOL (Toledo Express Airport)- Served by G4 and AA, new G4 service to IWA coming soon.
-CAK (Akron-Canton Airport)- Serves its own region and also acts as a secondary Cleveland airport.
-YNG (Youngstown-Warren Regional Airport)- No scheduled service now, but working on regaining passenger service.
-ILN (Wilmington Air Park)- Home of ABX/ATSG, Phoenix from the flames hub/sort facility for Amazon Air.
-HTS (Tri-State Airport, Huntington, WV)- Regional airport which serves southern Ohio, located across the Ohio River from Ironton.
-PKB (Mid-Ohio Valley Regional Airport, Parkersburg, WV)- EAS-served regional airport which advertises itself as an airport for Marietta.

While CVG and CMH generate a good bit of the discussion, there's also talk in this thread about the smaller airports, and that's the intended beauty of these threads- a community stream to keep track of what's going on in and around the state. If you find something interesting about a non-commercially served airport, again, share it! In recent years, we've also "adopted" airports in West Virginia which are a stone's throw from Ohio (HTS and PKB).

Previous threads:
-2021: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1455993
-2020: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1437963
-2019: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1411841
-2018- viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1382407&hilit=cle
-2017- viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1351523
-Part 5- viewtopic.php?f=3&t=607803

The reason we don't specifically include CLE in this series of threads is they've long had their own discussion (and, if memory serves, theirs came first and this was a response/supplement to that for the other airports). The newest CLE thread isn't up as of the time of this post, but if you'd like to chat CLE here, however, feel free!

WN is going to be completely dropping CVG-HOU nonstop service after 6/3/2022 and reducing CVG-DEN nonstop service to Saturday-only nonstop service starting on 6/4/2022.

While enough demand was likely there for daily WN CVG-DEN/HOU nonstop service in Summer 2022 with the load factors that WN was getting on CVG-DEN/HOU in June 2021 and July 2021, WN is facing a fleet shortage due to the delays in getting the 737 MAX 7 into service.

Here were the load factors that WN was getting on CVG-DEN/HOU in Summer 2021:
CVG-DEN in 6/2021 - 8617 passengers, 9495 seats, 90.75% load factor
CVG-DEN in 7/2021 - 10649 passengers, 11768 seats, 90.49% load factor
CVG-DEN in 8/2021 - 9745 passengers, 10848 seats, 89.83% load factor
CVG-DEN in 9/2021 - 8107 passengers, 9668 seats, 83.85% load factor

CVG-HOU in 6/2021 - 5725 passengers, 6836 seats, 83.75% load factor
CVG-HOU in 7/2021 - 5953 passengers, 6996 seats, 85.09% load factor
CVG-HOU in 8/2021 - 4886 passengers, 6646 seats, 73.52% load factor
CVG-HOU in 9/2021 - 4657 passengers, 7026 seats, 66.28% load factor

I would likely expect WN to resume daily nonstop service to DEN from CVG and to resume CVG-HOU nonstop service on at least a seasonal basis once WN has more planes in its fleet.

G4 adding CVG-HOU nonstop service might also be a possibility if WN or DL doesn't re-add nonstop service to Houston from CVG.

Thank you DeltaRules as always for your excellent yearly introduction post for those who may be new to the thread.

I’ll leave CVG and the smaller airports to someone more knowledgeable, but here are my CMH hopes for 2022:

AA- BOS and seasonal CUN added in 2021 and resumed JFK. Nothing new planned as far as we know. Wishlist item: I hope they will bring back LAX at some point in 2022.

AC - YYZ returned in 2021. Nothing new planned currently. Wishlist item: YYZ goes at least 2x daily, seems likely at some point this summer.

AS - SEA went less than daily for winter. SEA 2x daily planned for summer 2022. Wishlist item: AS begins LAX with AA codeshare if AA doesn’t bring it back themselves, seems very unlikely as they serve very little east of the Mississippi from LAX.

DL - Formally cut seasonal CUN and SLC in 2021, returned to JFK and BOS. Wishlist item: Return of SLC, but seems unlikely unless business traffic rebounds unexpectedly.

F9 - Nothing added or cut in 2021. Announced the start of CUN and TPA in early 2022. Wishlist item: CUN sticks, good to see Mexico service more than 1x weekly.

MX - Started a host of routes in 2021. Cut ORF at least temporarily. Plans to start PBI in 2022. Wishlist item: Introduction of A220s brings at least one unserved west coast route such as SAN.

NK - began LAX and PNS. Plan to resume MSY in 2022. Wishlist item: Can’t ask for much more but maybe 2x to LAX this summer if no one else hops on the route?

WN - Returned DCA, HOU, and STL service in 2021. Big frequency increases planned for 2022 plus daily AUS in March. Wishlist item: Again, hard to envision much more but a return to OAK would be nice if UA doesn’t resume SFO.

UA - Added seasonal leisure routes like HHH, PWM, and RSW in 2021 Pushed back SFO repeatedly with a return in 2022 looking increasingly unlikely. Wishlist item: Bring back SFO. Also worth noting they experimented with mainline on many routes. Would be nice if IAH mainline stuck.

New entrants - B6 looks unlikely this coming year with AA adding BOS as part of the NEA. I Was convinced by quite a few posters on this thread that SY to MSP is a real possibility.

Have a wonderful new year everyone!

CMHtraveler wrote:

Thank you DeltaRules as always for your excellent yearly introduction post for those who may be new to the thread.

I’ll leave CVG and the smaller airports to someone more knowledgeable, but here are my CMH hopes for 2022:

AA- BOS and seasonal CUN added in 2021 and resumed JFK. Nothing new planned as far as we know. Wishlist item: I hope they will bring back LAX at some point in 2022.

AC - YYZ returned in 2021. Nothing new planned currently. Wishlist item: YYZ goes at least 2x daily, seems likely at some point this summer.

AS - SEA went less than daily for winter. SEA 2x daily planned for summer 2022. Wishlist item: AS begins LAX with AA codeshare if AA doesn’t bring it back themselves, seems very unlikely as they serve very little east of the Mississippi from LAX.

DL - Formally cut seasonal CUN and SLC in 2021, returned to JFK and BOS. Wishlist item: Return of SLC, but seems unlikely unless business traffic rebounds unexpectedly.

F9 - Nothing added or cut in 2021. Announced the start of CUN and TPA in early 2022. Wishlist item: CUN sticks, good to see Mexico service more than 1x weekly.

MX - Started a host of routes in 2021. Cut ORF at least temporarily. Plans to start PBI in 2022. Wishlist item: Introduction of A220s brings at least one unserved west coast route such as SAN.

NK - began LAX and PNS. Plan to resume MSY in 2022. Wishlist item: Can’t ask for much more but maybe 2x to LAX this summer if no one else hops on the route?

WN - Returned DCA, HOU, and STL service in 2021. Big frequency increases planned for 2022 plus daily AUS in March. Wishlist item: Again, hard to envision much more but a return to OAK would be nice if UA doesn’t resume SFO.

UA - Added seasonal leisure routes like HHH, PWM, and RSW in 2021 Pushed back SFO repeatedly with a return in 2022 looking increasingly unlikely. Wishlist item: Bring back SFO. Also worth noting they experimented with mainline on many routes. Would be nice if IAH mainline stuck.

New entrants - B6 looks unlikely this coming year with AA adding BOS as part of the NEA. I Was convinced by quite a few posters on this thread that SY to MSP is a real possibility.

Have a wonderful new year everyone!

Second the thanks to Delta Rules for that wonderful introductory post and CMHTraveler I love your list. The only things I would add are:

1) a hope that CMH sees passenger traffic rebound significantly enough to motivate movement in the plans for the Midfield terminal complex. I know the trigger has been publicly stated as 9M passengers, and I don't think we will get there this year or maybe even in 2023 but the closer we get, the better the odds.

2) I really want to see progress on the Historic CMH Terminal being turned into a museum. That building is such a key piece of American Aviation History and has such a wonderful story. That story deserves to be shared widely and can serve as a great new community resource.

https://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/news/2021/03/15/original-port-columbus-terminal-renovation.html
https://www.columbusnavigator.com/ohio-air-and-space-museum-old-terminal/

Attn CMH spotters. A United Airlines 77W will bring the OSU team back to CMH on Jan 2 2022

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL ... /KLAX/KCMH

miaami wrote:

Attn CMH spotters. A United Airlines 77W will bring the OSU team back to CMH on Jan 2 2022

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL ... /KLAX/KCMH

Thanks miaami! Looks like If you arrive an hour early you can also catch a rare AC Dash 8 subbing in today for the usual CRJ on YYZ-CMH:

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/JZA ... /CYYZ/KCMH

miaami wrote:

Attn CMH spotters. A United Airlines 77W will bring the OSU team back to CMH on Jan 2 2022

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL ... /KLAX/KCMH

Looks as if the United 77W will ferry to SFO after dropping off the OSU team tonight

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL ... /KCMH/KSFO

CMHtraveler wrote:

Thanks miaami! Looks like If you arrive an hour early you can also catch a rare AC Dash 8 subbing in today for the usual CRJ on YYZ-CMH:

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/JZA ... /CYYZ/KCMH

Looks like it got cancelled. I would really like to get on a Dash 8 before they are all replaced.

CMHtraveler wrote:

Thank you DeltaRules as always for your excellent yearly introduction post for those who may be new to the thread.

I’ll leave CVG and the smaller airports to someone more knowledgeable, but here are my CMH hopes for 2022:

AA- BOS and seasonal CUN added in 2021 and resumed JFK. Nothing new planned as far as we know. Wishlist item: I hope they will bring back LAX at some point in 2022.

AC - YYZ returned in 2021. Nothing new planned currently. Wishlist item: YYZ goes at least 2x daily, seems likely at some point this summer.

AS - SEA went less than daily for winter. SEA 2x daily planned for summer 2022. Wishlist item: AS begins LAX with AA codeshare if AA doesn’t bring it back themselves, seems very unlikely as they serve very little east of the Mississippi from LAX.

DL - Formally cut seasonal CUN and SLC in 2021, returned to JFK and BOS. Wishlist item: Return of SLC, but seems unlikely unless business traffic rebounds unexpectedly.

F9 - Nothing added or cut in 2021. Announced the start of CUN and TPA in early 2022. Wishlist item: CUN sticks, good to see Mexico service more than 1x weekly.

MX - Started a host of routes in 2021. Cut ORF at least temporarily. Plans to start PBI in 2022. Wishlist item: Introduction of A220s brings at least one unserved west coast route such as SAN.

NK - began LAX and PNS. Plan to resume MSY in 2022. Wishlist item: Can’t ask for much more but maybe 2x to LAX this summer if no one else hops on the route?

WN - Returned DCA, HOU, and STL service in 2021. Big frequency increases planned for 2022 plus daily AUS in March. Wishlist item: Again, hard to envision much more but a return to OAK would be nice if UA doesn’t resume SFO.

UA - Added seasonal leisure routes like HHH, PWM, and RSW in 2021 Pushed back SFO repeatedly with a return in 2022 looking increasingly unlikely. Wishlist item: Bring back SFO. Also worth noting they experimented with mainline on many routes. Would be nice if IAH mainline stuck.

New entrants - B6 looks unlikely this coming year with AA adding BOS as part of the NEA. I Was convinced by quite a few posters on this thread that SY to MSP is a real possibility.

Have a wonderful new year everyone!

Happy New Year, everyone! Thanks to both DeltaRules for the intro and CMHtraveler for the 2021 summary and wish list. Honestly, my hopes for 2022 match yours very closely:

AA - would love to see LAX added back as well a new nonstop to AUS. Hope the mainline upgauges continue to CLT and MIA through the year.

AC - hope to see the route go to 2x daily in 2022.

AS - good to see the route go double-daily this summer. Would really like to see CMH-PDX added, at least seasonally, in lieu of a second SEA flight.

DL - really bummed about the SLC cuts. Hopefully as 2022 rolls along, they find a way to bring SLC-CMH and other route back to the network. Not too confident we'll see CMH-RDU/LAX/SEA/CUN come back in 2022, if ever. Year-round mainline to MSP and the return of mainline DTW, at least seasonally, would be nice.

F9 - glad they're adding something from CMH after years of route cuts and stagnation. Really hoping the TPA and CUN flights are successful. I'd really like to see more frequency from them: daily to DEN and MCO along with 4x weekly TPA and 2x weekly CUN would be nice.

MX - lots of opportunities from Breeze in 2022. I hope their current network from CMH sticks and continues to grow. Similar to F9, additional frequencies to their current list of cities would be optimal, assuming the market can support it. I like the idea of the 220's allowing them to do a west coast jaunt from CMH. SAN, OAK, and PDX would be at the top of the list for me.

NK - really happy with their growth since being introduced to the market. Not really seeing additional markets in 2022, but similar to F9 and MX, would like to see current cities that aren't daily already brought up to daily or near-daily schedules.

WN - very satisfied with their commitment to the market. I'd like to see them do CMH-MCI and return CMH-OAK, but both markets probably aren't quite there yet as business traffic remains subdued and new terminal construction continues at MCI.

UA - fingers crossed for a return of CMH-SFO in 2022. With transpac traffic still depressed, it's going to be hard for that one to come back without it. In the meantime, hoping CMH-DEN all-mainline continues along with consistent mainline adds to other hubs, particularly IAH.

New entrants - as much as I'd like to see them in CMH, B6 is likely not in the cards for 2022. Likewise I can't see any transatlantic flight out of CMH in 2022 or anytime until more business traffic returns. SY would make a nice addition to the local market with 4x weekly to MSP. Would love to see Contour come in and do something similar as in IND with flights to MKE, BDL, MCI, etc. But with continued depressed business and convention travel, this likely will remain just a dream.

Not sure if this has been discussed or not, but on the mainline flights out of CMH that offer meal service (AA CMH-MIA/DFW/PHX, UA CMH-DEN, AS CMH-SEA), do any of these qualify for a "hot" meal and what is a typical meal on a longer flight for these routes?

DeltaRules wrote:

Welcome to the 2022 regional thread for aviation in Ohio (except CLE- more on that later). This is sixth "annual" thread we've had where we've been able to have an ongoing regional hub for the Buckeye State and I'd like to thank everyone for continuing to keep these going and active.

The reason we don't specifically include CLE in this series of threads is they've long had their own discussion (and, if memory serves, theirs came first and this was a response/supplement to that for the other airports). The newest CLE thread isn't up as of the time of this post, but if you'd like to chat CLE here, however, feel free!

Just for your reference, the Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2022 is up and running:

viewtopic.php?p=23109977#p23109977

flyCMH wrote:

CMHtraveler wrote:

Thank you DeltaRules as always for your excellent yearly introduction post for those who may be new to the thread.

I’ll leave CVG and the smaller airports to someone more knowledgeable, but here are my CMH hopes for 2022:

AA- BOS and seasonal CUN added in 2021 and resumed JFK. Nothing new planned as far as we know. Wishlist item: I hope they will bring back LAX at some point in 2022.

AC - YYZ returned in 2021. Nothing new planned currently. Wishlist item: YYZ goes at least 2x daily, seems likely at some point this summer.

AS - SEA went less than daily for winter. SEA 2x daily planned for summer 2022. Wishlist item: AS begins LAX with AA codeshare if AA doesn’t bring it back themselves, seems very unlikely as they serve very little east of the Mississippi from LAX.

DL - Formally cut seasonal CUN and SLC in 2021, returned to JFK and BOS. Wishlist item: Return of SLC, but seems unlikely unless business traffic rebounds unexpectedly.

F9 - Nothing added or cut in 2021. Announced the start of CUN and TPA in early 2022. Wishlist item: CUN sticks, good to see Mexico service more than 1x weekly.

MX - Started a host of routes in 2021. Cut ORF at least temporarily. Plans to start PBI in 2022. Wishlist item: Introduction of A220s brings at least one unserved west coast route such as SAN.

NK - began LAX and PNS. Plan to resume MSY in 2022. Wishlist item: Can’t ask for much more but maybe 2x to LAX this summer if no one else hops on the route?

WN - Returned DCA, HOU, and STL service in 2021. Big frequency increases planned for 2022 plus daily AUS in March. Wishlist item: Again, hard to envision much more but a return to OAK would be nice if UA doesn’t resume SFO.

UA - Added seasonal leisure routes like HHH, PWM, and RSW in 2021 Pushed back SFO repeatedly with a return in 2022 looking increasingly unlikely. Wishlist item: Bring back SFO. Also worth noting they experimented with mainline on many routes. Would be nice if IAH mainline stuck.

New entrants - B6 looks unlikely this coming year with AA adding BOS as part of the NEA. I Was convinced by quite a few posters on this thread that SY to MSP is a real possibility.

Have a wonderful new year everyone!

Here's my 2022 wishlist, excluding things already discussed:

CMH-
-MX - I still feel like there's got to be some sort of big plan for them at CMH; they wouldn't have had the fanfare from DeWine, Ginther, and others if there weren't more to it (and there wasn't for NK, AS, etc.).
-New entrants - I have a bad feeling CMH is, for whatever reason, going to be the last of the missing Midwest dots added by B6 and that IND, CVG, and STL will get them first. Nothing to prove that, just a gut feel (it would follow the path SY took, who would also be a logical add in town). Contour would also be an interesting entrant to connect CMH to regional destinations.

LCK-
-G4- I don't know how/why they haven't added IWA/LAS yet. Maybe this is the year.

DAY-
-AA- Still has all the bases covered except MIA. It'd be nice to see mainline back to DFW and maybe the return of MIA, though, if the ERJs are leaving there, it makes that tricky.
-DL- I've been told everything DL is sending out of DAY is going out full, that MSP being resumed is a matter of time, and pre-COVID service levels will return. It'd be nice if they added JFK/LGA and/or BOS to connect another dot.
-UA- Not sure a whole lot can happen here unless they'd re-add IAH.
-G4- There have to be at least a few more cities they could make work 2x/week.
-New entrants- Dear God, somebody show this place some more love. I was surprised MX didn't go there instead of CMH and am going to keep banging the "NK would make sense there" drum until it breaks. F9 made it work there for years and could do so again instead of NK.

DeltaRules wrote:

DAY-
-UA- Not sure a whole lot can happen here unless they'd re-add IAH.

Resume DEN.

Cross-posting from the PIT thread, but a user emailed SLC and received a reply that CMH (along with CLE and several other Midwest markets)-SLC will resume Q42022 or Q12023.

cledaybuck wrote:

DeltaRules wrote:

DAY-
-UA- Not sure a whole lot can happen here unless they'd re-add IAH.

Resume DEN.

I forgot DEN was suspended but, yeah, that needs to happen.

I am rooting for Jetblue to return to CMH and Allegiant to add LCK-MLB

With Allegiant slowly entering primary airport markets, they are flying out of both IWA and PHX, do you think they will ever move their operations over to CMH instead of staying at LCK?

CMHARJ wrote:

With Allegiant slowly entering primary airport markets, they are flying out of both IWA and PHX, do you think they will ever move their operations over to CMH instead of staying at LCK?

This sort of falls into the category of “if it ain’t broke”… They seem to have found quite a nice little niche. According to the last available CRAA stats covering Q1-Q3 of 2021, G4 carried only 4% fewer passengers out of LCK than in the same period in 2019, much better than most airlines at CMH.

Anecdotally, the folks I know who use G4 regularly, primarily as a family vacation shuttle to Florida, cite the ease of using LCK as a major reason. I’m not sure what CMH would get them except less differentiation from competitors, higher fees, and more of a headache for their passengers.

CMHtraveler wrote:

CMHARJ wrote:

With Allegiant slowly entering primary airport markets, they are flying out of both IWA and PHX, do you think they will ever move their operations over to CMH instead of staying at LCK?

This sort of falls into the category of “if it ain’t broke”… They seem to have found quite a nice little niche. According to the last available CRAA stats covering Q1-Q3 of 2021, G4 carried only 4% fewer passengers out of LCK than in the same period in 2019, much better than most airlines at CMH.

Anecdotally, the folks I know who use G4 regularly, primarily as a family vacation shuttle to Florida, cite the ease of using LCK as a major reason. I’m not sure what CMH would get them except less differentiation from competitors, higher fees, and more of a headache for their passengers.

There's also probably some sort of incentive for CRAA (X enplanements=federal money?) to keep them at LCK.

As hard as it is to believe, there are times G4 uses both gates at LCK, which might not be conducive to CMH and its somewhat limited available gate space.

Did anyone see this? An article in the Plain Dealer about the proposed massive computer chip facility which may be coming to New Albany. In the article, New Albany City Manager Joseph Stefanov replied when asked "There are a lot of rumors out there. I've heard rumors about an airport. We're not interested in an airport." Has anyone heard through the rumor mill about a airport going in around New Albany? I'm not suggesting it would be a CMH type airport, but maybe a Don Scott Field level airport to meet potential demand for New Albany's growing tech sector.

https://www.cleveland.com/open/2022/01/ ... utType=amp

ChasChandler wrote:

Did anyone see this? An article in the Plain Dealer about the proposed massive computer chip facility which may be coming to New Albany. In the article, New Albany City Manager Joseph Stefanov replied when asked "There are a lot of rumors out there. I've heard rumors about an airport. We're not interested in an airport." Has anyone heard through the rumor mill about a airport going in around New Albany? I'm not suggesting it would be a CMH type airport, but maybe a Don Scott Field level airport to meet potential demand for New Albany's growing tech sector.

https://www.cleveland.com/open/2022/01/ ... utType=amp

Interesting. This is the first article I've seen indicating that a part of proposed development would include the construction of some kind of airport along with the plant. There has been some speculation that the recent RFQ for the new terminal at CMH might have been timed due to this potential announcement.

Cross post from the Breeze thread, simpleflying has suggested that CMH-SAN and CMH-PDX could be amongst potential MX A220 routes. I have no idea if this is based on anything other than looking at long thin unserved routes from MX cities, but I would not complain about these adds at all if they came to fruition. So much more useful than more Florida.

https://simpleflying.com/breeze-airways-plans/

Those two routes would be awesome. It would be nice to see more A220s around the airport.

Regarding the New Albany development, there is no airport as part of the effort. That was just a guessing game on the part of locals trying to figure out why New Albany was going to potentially annex such a large tract of land. This is an extremely exciting opportunity for the entire state and especially central ohio. Time will tell, however, what (if anything) comes to fruition.
On the Breeze front, that is really good news. Curious to see if the possibility of Breeze adding places out west motivates either NK or AS to something or maybe even DL or AA
About LCK and Allegiant, from my understanding the passenger traffic there helps pay the bills for the airport but you never know if something may make it more beneficial for Allegiant to move to CMH when the new terminal comes (crossing fingers).

CMHtraveler wrote:

Cross post from the Breeze thread, simpleflying has suggested that CMH-SAN and CMH-PDX could be amongst potential MX A220 routes. I have no idea if this is based on anything other than looking at long thin unserved routes from MX cities, but I would not complain about these adds at all if they came to fruition. So much more useful than more Florida.

https://simpleflying.com/breeze-airways-plans/

They'd make sense, especially since SAN seems to be the one domestic destination CRAA has wanted and not gotten yet.

brooklynchris13 wrote:

Regarding the New Albany development, there is no airport as part of the effort. That was just a guessing game on the part of locals trying to figure out why New Albany was going to potentially annex such a large tract of land.

Yeah, I can't fathom how a new airport would've been in the mix, even as a rumor. I mean, even on a bad day, you can go from New Albany to CMH in 15 minutes. If you're flying privately and (for some reason) don't want to go CMH, then VTA is about 20 min in the other direction.

Regardless, I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the chip manufacturer plans all pan out - that would be awesome.

brooklynchris13 wrote:

Regarding the New Albany development, there is no airport as part of the effort. That was just a guessing game on the part of locals trying to figure out why New Albany was going to potentially annex such a large tract of land. This is an extremely exciting opportunity for the entire state and especially central ohio. Time will tell, however, what (if anything) comes to fruition.

It’s now being reported that the annexation is for the purpose of Intel building a massive semiconductor factory, which is being called the largest economic development project in Ohio history: https://www.cleveland.com/news/2022/01/ ... utType=amp.

It’s not a new airport (thankfully) but if a project of this scope happens I would think it would be a major boost to Northern California air service from CMH, with UA solidifying/expanding SFO (is that who holds the Intel corporate contract?) and dare we dream- AS or WN to SJC? Exciting stuff!

It's fairly inevitable that CMH will be the biggest metro area in Ohio in a generation or so but this announcement really cements it. 10,000 direct jobs, 100,000 indirect jobs (those indirect jobs may be spread outside of Columbus, I don't know). $100B construction (can that possibly be? wow! and I thought $1B was a lot for an airport!) So lots of possibilities for airport growth. . . but AS why is it that EVERYONE talks about AS to west coast cities beyond SEA, whether it's the PIT thread, Indy, it doesn't matter. They are a small niche airline. Wouldn't the air traffic be largely to Phoenix, Intel's HQ city-- already well served from CMH but definitely room for more .

It's confirmed, central Ohio was chosen by Intel to build a 20B semi conductor factory.
[url]https://www.dispatch.com/story/business/2022/01/14/factory-built-land-annexed-into-new-albany/6524507001/?utm_source=dispatch-News%20Alert&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=news_alerts&utm_term=news_alert&utm_content=OHIO-COLUMBUS-NLETTER01[url]

ncflyer wrote:

It's fairly inevitable that CMH will be the biggest metro area in Ohio in a generation or so but this announcement really cements it. 10,000 direct jobs, 100,000 indirect jobs (those indirect jobs may be spread outside of Columbus, I don't know). $100B construction (can that possibly be? wow! and I thought $1B was a lot for an airport!) So lots of possibilities for airport growth. . . but AS why is it that EVERYONE talks about AS to west coast cities beyond SEA, whether it's the PIT thread, Indy, it doesn't matter. They are a small niche airline. Wouldn't the air traffic be largely to Phoenix, Intel's HQ city-- already well served from CMH but definitely room for more .

What a great day for Greater Columbus and the entire state of Ohio. This will likely be in many ways only the beginning. As with the auto industry 100 years ago, the Aviation Industry in the WW2 era, and the initial decades of the computer industry, regions can become centers of certain types of economic activity. If Greater Columbus evolves into "Data Alley" that is so much more impactful in so many ways than a whole bunch of distribution centers. Starting with, to some degree, the air service and other transportation resources. Exciting times ahead for sure.

Regarding why we clamor for west coast service from someone, anyone. There has been an interest in dots on our aviation service map here for a long, long time. The west coast has always been an air-service emotional holy-grail that maybe is not entirely data based or fact based, but is still a point of pride as we went without west coast sir service for so long. Then we finally got it, SFO, LAX (DL and AA) and SEA (AS and proposed DL) only to mostly lose it. Now, rightly or wrongly, it is seen as a benchmark and folks get really excited about getting that need met and what that services represents-- something more than mostly E-jets to nearby hubs, but instead mainline aircraft connecting CMH to places beyond what we normally see. Including Asia/Pacific connections.

ncflyer wrote:

Wouldn't the air traffic be largely to Phoenix, Intel's HQ city-- already well served from CMH but definitely room for more .

Intel's HQ is Santa Clara, isn't it?

Regardless, awesome news - although I don't think this facility is, by itself, going to move the needle very much in terms of airlines/routes/passengers/etc.

Yes Santa Clara it is my bad. Tons of MFG in phoenix area so that will lead to some travel.

I think at a minimum CMH will get more dependable year round SFO service on UA. SJC or AS growth Can’t see that. Over under on what year CMH passes PIT and CLE for pax? It’s coming question is when.

ncflyer wrote:

Yes Santa Clara it is my bad. Tons of MFG in phoenix area so that will lead to some travel.

I think at a minimum CMH will get more dependable year round SFO service on UA. SJC or AS growth Can’t see that. Over under on what year CMH passes PIT and CLE for pax? It’s coming question is when.

AS adding CMH-PDX nonstop service might be a possibility once the Intel factory opens in New Albany as Intel has manufacturing facilities in Hillsboro, OR in Greater Portland. There are also other companies with a presence in both Greater Columbus and Greater Portland such as Amazon Web Services (who has datacenters in both metro areas).

I don't know when the earliest serious demand for flights related to Intel might start, but it might eventually make CMH-SJC ripe for the picking for someone like MX.

It's the CMH-BDL insurance shuttle for a new generation (which, ironically, was restarted by MX).

When Intel is up and running with 3000 employees, how many of those will be management/travel level (but not senior enough to travel on a corporate jet) and of those that are executives, how many will need to go to PDX or SJC routinely? My bet is 300 and fewer than 20 on a weekly basis, and that's factoring in folks coming in the other direction too.. Do you agree?

ncflyer wrote:

When Intel is up and running with 3000 employees, how many of those will be management/travel level (but not senior enough to travel on a corporate jet) and of those that are executives, how many will need to go to PDX or SJC routinely? My bet is 300 and fewer than 20 on a weekly basis, and that's factoring in folks coming in the other direction too.. Do you agree?

Not sure about the numbers, but it seems like you're insinuating (and I agree) that there isn't going to magically be some huge increase in air travel as a result. Perhaps a couple of new flights/frequencies to Cali... maybe some increase load to/from PDX/PHX... and that's probably about it.

NoTime wrote:

ncflyer wrote:

When Intel is up and running with 3000 employees, how many of those will be management/travel level (but not senior enough to travel on a corporate jet) and of those that are executives, how many will need to go to PDX or SJC routinely? My bet is 300 and fewer than 20 on a weekly basis, and that's factoring in folks coming in the other direction too.. Do you agree?

Not sure about the numbers, but it seems like you're insinuating (and I agree) that there isn't going to magically be some huge increase in air travel as a result. Perhaps a couple of new flights/frequencies to Cali... maybe some increase load to/from PDX/PHX... and that's probably about it.

During the pandemic we lost (at least for now) both AA and DL to LAX, DL to SLC, and UA to SFO. So any hope for an additional flight or two west is good news.

NoTime wrote:

ncflyer wrote:

When Intel is up and running with 3000 employees, how many of those will be management/travel level (but not senior enough to travel on a corporate jet) and of those that are executives, how many will need to go to PDX or SJC routinely? My bet is 300 and fewer than 20 on a weekly basis, and that's factoring in folks coming in the other direction too.. Do you agree?

Not sure about the numbers, but it seems like you're insinuating (and I agree) that there isn't going to magically be some huge increase in air travel as a result. Perhaps a couple of new flights/frequencies to Cali... maybe some increase load to/from PDX/PHX... and that's probably about it.

One thing to also consider is if there are a lot of transfers in, they'll want to go back and visit friends and relatives so you'll have that increase in traffic. The truth is, no one knows how this will effect CMH until they build the plant and we find out. One rule of thumb would be is how much traffic was generated by the Portland plant. If they had a noticeable increase, then we probably will to.

The impact of Intel in the CMH area is not just the direct jobs from those 3,000 workers. Its all the other jobs associated with similar companies as well as other related suppliers who will potentially drive up demand for air service as a result of this project. If we look out 5-10 years, that impact will likely be significant in ways we are not even able to imagine right now.

Breeze has extended their schedule through September with the following changes for CMH beginning in May:

- CHS goes from 2x to 4x weekly
- BDL goes from 4x to 3x weekly
- MSY goes from 2x to 1x weekly
- ORF goes from 2x to 3x weekly
- TPA appears to be cut
- PBI remains at 1x weekly

No surprise at all about TPA, with F9, NK, WN, and G4 (PIE) also on the route. On the flipside CAK gets upguaged to the A220 on TPA. MSY is disappointing as it’s a weekend destination; who wants to do a Saturday only on MX? Seems like the prelude to being cut completely which makes me hope NK resumes MSY sooner rather than later. CHS increase makes sense given where Ohioans like to escape in the summer months, and I have to say ORF is a pleasant surprise. I’m also assuming we may see more MX announcements as the A220s become available.

CMHtraveler wrote:

Breeze has extended their schedule through September with the following changes for CMH beginning in May:

- CHS goes from 2x to 4x weekly
- BDL goes from 4x to 3x weekly
- MSY goes from 2x to 1x weekly
- ORF goes from 2x to 3x weekly
- TPA appears to be cut
- PBI remains at 1x weekly

No surprise at all about TPA, with F9, NK, WN, and G4 (PIE) also on the route. On the flipside CAK gets upguaged to the A220 on TPA. MSY is disappointing as it’s a weekend destination; who wants to do a Saturday only on MX? Seems like the prelude to being cut completely which makes me hope NK resumes MSY sooner rather than later. CHS increase makes sense given where Ohioans like to escape in the summer months, and I have to say ORF is a pleasant surprise. I’m also assuming we may see more MX announcements as the A220s become available.

Thanks for the summary of changes. Also a bit disappointed to see MSY reduced. I figured that route would be one to see some more flights going into the summer. The BDL-CMH-ORF-CMH-BDL run goes to an A220 in June, according to the seat map. My guess is this will be temporary until the A220 launches on routes that are more suited to its capabilities. That being said, I would have figured CMH-CHS would see an A220 before CMH-BDL/ORF.

flyCMH wrote:

CMHtraveler wrote:

Breeze has extended their schedule through September with the following changes for CMH beginning in May:

- CHS goes from 2x to 4x weekly
- BDL goes from 4x to 3x weekly
- MSY goes from 2x to 1x weekly
- ORF goes from 2x to 3x weekly
- TPA appears to be cut
- PBI remains at 1x weekly

No surprise at all about TPA, with F9, NK, WN, and G4 (PIE) also on the route. On the flipside CAK gets upguaged to the A220 on TPA. MSY is disappointing as it’s a weekend destination; who wants to do a Saturday only on MX? Seems like the prelude to being cut completely which makes me hope NK resumes MSY sooner rather than later. CHS increase makes sense given where Ohioans like to escape in the summer months, and I have to say ORF is a pleasant surprise. I’m also assuming we may see more MX announcements as the A220s become available.

Thanks for the summary of changes. Also a bit disappointed to see MSY reduced. I figured that route would be one to see some more flights going into the summer. The BDL-CMH-ORF-CMH-BDL run goes to an A220 in June, according to the seat map. My guess is this will be temporary until the A220 launches on routes that are more suited to its capabilities. That being said, I would have figured CMH-CHS would see an A220 before CMH-BDL/ORF.

I may have to do a quick out and back to ORF to try out the A220.

NK's CMH-MSY returns 3x/week in February.

DeltaRules wrote:

flyCMH wrote:

CMHtraveler wrote:

Breeze has extended their schedule through September with the following changes for CMH beginning in May:

- CHS goes from 2x to 4x weekly
- BDL goes from 4x to 3x weekly
- MSY goes from 2x to 1x weekly
- ORF goes from 2x to 3x weekly
- TPA appears to be cut
- PBI remains at 1x weekly

No surprise at all about TPA, with F9, NK, WN, and G4 (PIE) also on the route. On the flipside CAK gets upguaged to the A220 on TPA. MSY is disappointing as it’s a weekend destination; who wants to do a Saturday only on MX? Seems like the prelude to being cut completely which makes me hope NK resumes MSY sooner rather than later. CHS increase makes sense given where Ohioans like to escape in the summer months, and I have to say ORF is a pleasant surprise. I’m also assuming we may see more MX announcements as the A220s become available.

Thanks for the summary of changes. Also a bit disappointed to see MSY reduced. I figured that route would be one to see some more flights going into the summer. The BDL-CMH-ORF-CMH-BDL run goes to an A220 in June, according to the seat map. My guess is this will be temporary until the A220 launches on routes that are more suited to its capabilities. That being said, I would have figured CMH-CHS would see an A220 before CMH-BDL/ORF.

NK's CMH-MSY returns 3x/week in February.

Briefly, but sadly NK has pulled these flights from the March calendar. Advanced bookings must have been bad. Interestingly, NK CMH-MSY then reappears in late April at 4x weekly (Th/F/Sa/Su), but I’m sure that will be reassessed closer to the date.

It’s so hard for me to believe a schedule optimized for weekends in New Orleans utilizing an E190/A220 sized aircraft on this route wouldn’t work. Maybe it really is that seasonal or maybe omicron has killed demand.

DeltaRules wrote:

I may have to do a quick out and back to ORF to try out the A220.

I was just thinking the exact same thing. I haven't been on an A220, and from what I've seen, Breeze will have the nicest ones around. So, I might have to make a quick trip to ORF in June.

On an unrelated note - I saw that Northern Pacific unveiled their livery yesterday. If all goes according to plan, they hope to be flying by the end of the year. (For those that don't know, they plan to try an Iceland Air model, but instead of serving US - Europe with stops in KEF, they'll be serving US - Asia with stops at ANC.) They're using 757-200's, so that opens up most (all?) of the US.

Considering Ohio's Asian-American population, and especially central Ohio's Japanese population, what are the chances that CMH could get a 2x or 3x weekly route to ANC?

NoTime wrote:

On an unrelated note - I saw that Northern Pacific unveiled their livery yesterday. If all goes according to plan, they hope to be flying by the end of the year. (For those that don't know, they plan to try an Iceland Air model, but instead of serving US - Europe with stops in KEF, they'll be serving US - Asia with stops at ANC.) They're using 757-200's, so that opens up most (all?) of the US.

Considering Ohio's Asian-American population, and especially central Ohio's Japanese population, what are the chances that CMH could get a 2x or 3x weekly route to ANC?

Looking through the thread on Northern Pacific, I wouldn't get my hopes up. Interesting concept trying to copy the Icelandair model to Pacific travel, though I doubt many mid-sized cities like CMH would be on the horizon. While CMH generally had very robust travel volume to the Asia/Pacific region, a lot of that remains extremely depressed due to the continued pandemic and lack of business travel. I truly think that's the main reason AA/DL to LAX and UA to SFO disappeared and have yet to come back. Also, many of these travelers tend to be extremely loyal to their network carrier of choice (NH-UA, JL-AA, KE-DL, etc.). I doubt the little market that still exists would immediately jump to a startup carrier funneling connections through ANC. If/when that market segment does return, the focus should be on re-establishing connections from CMH to these large Asia/Pacific gateways multiple times a day on network carriers, IMO.

I don't get all this talk on the midwestern threads about west coast as a connecting point to Asia. For the most popular Asian cities Tokyo Taipei Beijing Seoul Shanghai Honk Kong , it saves hours to change in ORD/IAD/DTW/EWR/MSP and fly the polar route. Backtracking to ATL and DFW may even be a time savings over west coast, I'm not sure. OK I get that there are some cities only served from the west coast. What market are you feeling could be served by one stop service that isn't already (at least in non-COVID times?)

ncflyer wrote:

I don't get all this talk on the midwestern threads about west coast as a connecting point to Asia. For the most popular Asian cities Tokyo Taipei Beijing Seoul Shanghai Honk Kong , it saves hours to change in ORD/IAD/DTW/EWR/MSP and fly the polar route. Backtracking to ATL and DFW may even be a time savings over west coast, I'm not sure. OK I get that there are some cities only served from the west coast. What market are you feeling could be served by one stop service that isn't already (at least in non-COVID times?)

Well, while your geography is faultless, Sir the West Coast still makes sense
1. it (well LAX and SFO anyway) gives you access to more points in Asia and the South Pacific with 1 connection
2. on the bigger cities, you have a plethora of carriers flying multiple times a day so better schedule
3. because of 2, it's often quite a bit cheaper

Which is also why Northern Pacific is going to crash and burn. Slightly cheaper and slightly quicker, if you're lucky, but a lot less comfortable is not a winning proposition.

BangersAndMash wrote:

ncflyer wrote:

I don't get all this talk on the midwestern threads about west coast as a connecting point to Asia. For the most popular Asian cities Tokyo Taipei Beijing Seoul Shanghai Honk Kong , it saves hours to change in ORD/IAD/DTW/EWR/MSP and fly the polar route. Backtracking to ATL and DFW may even be a time savings over west coast, I'm not sure. OK I get that there are some cities only served from the west coast. What market are you feeling could be served by one stop service that isn't already (at least in non-COVID times?)

Well, while your geography is faultless, Sir the West Coast still makes sense
1. it (well LAX and SFO anyway) gives you access to more points in Asia and the South Pacific with 1 connection
2. on the bigger cities, you have a plethora of carriers flying multiple times a day so better schedule
3. because of 2, it's often quite a bit cheaper

Which is also why Northern Pacific is going to crash and burn. Slightly cheaper and slightly quicker, if you're lucky, but a lot less comfortable is not a winning proposition.

I'm not so sure. If "slightly cheaper and slightly quicker, if you're lucky, but a lot less comfortable" is not a winning proposition, then how do NK, G4 and their ilk stay afloat? Maybe the calculus is a little different if you're flying domestic vs. international?

Don't get me wrong - I think Northern Pacific is a long shot... but I'm not ready to rule them out just yet.

Well the Intel facility is soon to be announced officially and the more I hear about it-- wow, just wow. The scale of this plant is so significant that I do think there will be some immediate impacts on air service to CMH. According to NPR radio broadcast-- average pay >$100K. 7,000 construction jobs. Largest silicon production sight in the world. The fresh water and electrical needs of this plant are ginormous, state is investing $1B in infrastructure. The acreage of 5 square miles is the equivalent of decent sized suburbs. Most immediately I have to assume SFO service on UA will be more stable. Construction starts end of '22.

A new terminal at CMH is back on the table

https://www.dispatch.com/story/business ... Ywdp7NJVXo