The Rest of Ohio Aviation Thread - 2022

cmhman · Tue Aug 02, 2022 4:45 pm

CMHtraveler wrote:
F9 winter seasonal routes CMH-CUN and CMH-TPA have both been dropped from the schedule. Other carriers on these routes obviously, but it’s too bad to lose the option. Particularly CUN which was set to be 3x weekly instead of 1x like AA and WN.

Has NK dropped any routes? Someone in the CLE threat said NK dropped MYR and CUN from CLE.
Not surprised that F9 dropped these. They've been doing that to CMH forever it seems.

brn2Bwld92 · Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:12 am

a320flyer wrote:
FlyingRocks wrote:
Just happened to see this Delta 757 on flightradar24 a while ago at CVG and checked out its registration: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N655DL. Interestingly it flew a point to point route from SAN to CVG. Now its going to fly from CVG to MIA on Sunday. I wonder if Delta is bring more point to point routes back to CVG or if its a cargo flight that just happened to be going to CVG. Speaking of CVG, Delta's nonstop CVG to CDG flight is returning next Tuesday so yay for Cincy.

Delta has a small subtfleet of 752s working charter flights, this is one of those.

This was the Cincinnati Reds charter flight

brn2Bwld92 · Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:27 am

FlyingRocks wrote:
Just happened to see this Delta 757 on flightradar24 a while ago at CVG and checked out its registration: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N655DL. Interestingly it flew a point to point route from SAN to CVG. Now its going to fly from CVG to MIA on Sunday. I wonder if Delta is bring more point to point routes back to CVG or if its a cargo flight that just happened to be going to CVG. Speaking of CVG, Delta's nonstop CVG to CDG flight is returning next Tuesday so yay for Cincy.

Regarding the return of nonstop between CVG and CDG, interesting equipment movement for this. Pre-COVID, the same 763 coming from CDG to CVG would turn around and fly right back to CDG. Now, it looks like the eastbound CVG to CDG aircraft comes from a revenue ATL-CVG flight first, then the international segment. Likewise, the westbound CDG-CVG turns and goes to ATL as a revenue flight after landing from CDG. Must be because demand isn’t back for this flight pair yet. Thursday 8/4’s CDG-CVG was canceled and Delta dead headed a 764 from JFK to fulfill the CVG-ATL leg after that. But Thursday’s CVG-CDG still went out as scheduled on a 763.

AirportRival · Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:43 pm

brn2Bwld92 wrote:
FlyingRocks wrote:
Just happened to see this Delta 757 on flightradar24 a while ago at CVG and checked out its registration: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N655DL. Interestingly it flew a point to point route from SAN to CVG. Now its going to fly from CVG to MIA on Sunday. I wonder if Delta is bring more point to point routes back to CVG or if its a cargo flight that just happened to be going to CVG. Speaking of CVG, Delta's nonstop CVG to CDG flight is returning next Tuesday so yay for Cincy.

Regarding the return of nonstop between CVG and CDG, interesting equipment movement for this. Pre-COVID, the same 763 coming from CDG to CVG would turn around and fly right back to CDG. Now, it looks like the eastbound CVG to CDG aircraft comes from a revenue ATL-CVG flight first, then the international segment. Likewise, the westbound CDG-CVG turns and goes to ATL as a revenue flight after landing from CDG. Must be because demand isn’t back for this flight pair yet. Thursday 8/4’s CDG-CVG was canceled and Delta dead headed a 764 from JFK to fulfill the CVG-ATL leg after that. But Thursday’s CVG-CDG still went out as scheduled on a 763.

They did this back in 2018 or 19 for a while too. I think somebody said that it had something to do with the rotation of the aircraft and crews but I could be mistaken.

AirportRival · Fri Aug 05, 2022 5:18 pm

Didn't see this coming. AA adds CVG-RDU.

Maybe I should have got an AAdvantage card instead of a Skymiles card a couple years ago

https://www.wlwt.com/article/cincinnati ... -autopilot

a320flyer · Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:18 pm

AirportRival wrote:
Didn't see this coming. AA adds CVG-RDU.

Maybe I should have got an AAdvantage card instead of a Skymiles card a couple years ago

https://www.wlwt.com/article/cincinnati ... -autopilot

F9 drops the route in November, so it does make some sense, but it won’t be long until DL restores the route. Pretty frustrating that DL continues this practice. SEA/BOS/AUS are perfect examples, where capacity was artificially constrained, yet now that the competition flies it, they suddenly can make double the capacity work.

Good to see AA putting on the pressure with more P2P routes out of CVG! Now I’d like to see them go for LAX. Then DL will suddenly be able to run 2x/day like they did before 2020

a320flyer · Sun Aug 07, 2022 2:42 pm

By November:
UA will be up to 3x/day mainline on CVG-ORD
UA will be up to 1x/day mainline on CVG-EWR
UA will be all mainline on CVG-DEN/IAH (both 2x/day)
AA will be at 3x/day mainline on CVG-CLT (DFW/PHX are already all mainline)

This has to be the most non-DL mainline CVG has seen in quite some time. Up until a few years ago, both legacies were mostly 50-seat RJs into CVG.

jplatts · Sun Aug 07, 2022 2:53 pm

a320flyer wrote:
By November:
UA will be all mainline on CVG-DEN/IAH (both 2x/day)

CVG can support nonstop service to Houston on more than just UA with UA down to 2x daily nonstops on CVG-IAH through end-of-schedule (which goes through 7/2/2023).

The return of WN CVG-HOU nonstop service, the return of DL CVG-IAH nonstop service, or the addition of G4 CVG-HOU nonstop service are possibilities.

jplatts · Sun Aug 07, 2022 3:49 pm

a320flyer wrote:
Good to see AA putting on the pressure with more P2P routes out of CVG! Now I’d like to see them go for LAX.

I agree that CVG can likely support AA nonstop service out of LAX with DL still down to 1x daily nonstop on CVG-LAX through end-of-schedule (which goes through 7/2/2023) and with F9 no longer serving LAX nonstop from CVG.

CMHtraveler · Sun Aug 07, 2022 5:13 pm

November is scheduled for a lot of legacy mainline at CMH too; AA has CLT up to 3x mainline and PHL getting a 319 as well in addition to the usual all-mainline DFW and PHX. UA has ORD up to 3x mainline as well and IAH goes all-mainline, along with DEN and SFO. Even DL gets in on the action with a 717 on the last DTW turn of the day to go along with the usual mainline shuttle to ATL. It’s a trend we’ve already been seeing post-pandemic (fewer frequencies, larger aircraft) but seems like it’s accelerating as we move into fall.

On the not so good news side, DL is cutting DAY-DTW in October, currently 1x CR9. Smaller markets like DAY are really suffering with the regional staffing situation.

Midwestindy · Sun Aug 07, 2022 7:31 pm

a320flyer wrote:
AirportRival wrote:
Didn't see this coming. AA adds CVG-RDU.

Maybe I should have got an AAdvantage card instead of a Skymiles card a couple years ago

https://www.wlwt.com/article/cincinnati ... -autopilot

F9 drops the route in November, so it does make some sense, but it won’t be long until DL restores the route. Pretty frustrating that DL continues this practice. SEA/BOS/AUS are perfect examples, where capacity was artificially constrained, yet now that the competition flies it, they suddenly can make double the capacity work.

Good to see AA putting on the pressure with more P2P routes out of CVG! Now I’d like to see them go for LAX. Then DL will suddenly be able to run 2x/day like they did before 2020

AA applying pressure elsewhere too:

In November
CVG-JFK up to 3x daily (DL only flies it 1x daily)
CVG-BOS up to 3x daily

brooklynchris13 · Sun Aug 07, 2022 10:29 pm

CMHtraveler wrote:
November is scheduled for a lot of legacy mainline at CMH too; AA has CLT up to 3x mainline and PHL getting a 319 as well in addition to the usual all-mainline DFW and PHX. UA has ORD up to 3x mainline as well and IAH goes all-mainline, along with DEN and SFO. Even DL gets in on the action with a 717 on the last DTW turn of the day to go along with the usual mainline shuttle to ATL. It’s a trend we’ve already been seeing post-pandemic (fewer frequencies, larger aircraft) but seems like it’s accelerating as we move into fall.

On the not so good news side, DL is cutting DAY-DTW in October, currently 1x CR9. Smaller markets like DAY are really suffering with the regional staffing situation.

Add DCA to the destinations getting mainline in the November AA schedule. 11 mainline a day is pretty high for CMH, I don’t recall the last time we were to that number.

As far as odd city pair adds go, would not shock me to see a CMH-RDU add or even a CMH-AUS add sometime in the near future, maybe even a BNA. Lots of talk in the IND thread about explosive AA growth there, maybe they could work some of that magic here.

jplatts · Sun Aug 07, 2022 10:32 pm

AirportRival wrote:
Didn't see this coming. AA adds CVG-RDU.

AA already operates RDU-AUS/BNA/PIT/TPA p2p nonstop service in addition to the nonstop service that AA has out of RDU to its hubs.

bigred10k · Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:57 pm

Love the adds by AA -- particularly the increased frequency to JFK with all of its international options. Now just add some LAX options or DAY-JFK and I would be even happier.

It really seems like DL is throwing in the towel on serving the midwest, Ohio in particular. Travelling from DAY on DL will now require going through ATL or LGA (1x daily?). Meanwhile AA maintains robust service to many of its hubs (DCA, DFW, ORD, CLT, LGA, and PHL) from DAY.

DeltaRules · Mon Aug 08, 2022 2:41 pm

brooklynchris13 wrote:
CMHtraveler wrote:
November is scheduled for a lot of legacy mainline at CMH too; AA has CLT up to 3x mainline and PHL getting a 319 as well in addition to the usual all-mainline DFW and PHX. UA has ORD up to 3x mainline as well and IAH goes all-mainline, along with DEN and SFO. Even DL gets in on the action with a 717 on the last DTW turn of the day to go along with the usual mainline shuttle to ATL. It’s a trend we’ve already been seeing post-pandemic (fewer frequencies, larger aircraft) but seems like it’s accelerating as we move into fall.

On the not so good news side, DL is cutting DAY-DTW in October, currently 1x CR9. Smaller markets like DAY are really suffering with the regional staffing situation.

Add DCA to the destinations getting mainline in the November AA schedule. 11 mainline a day is pretty high for CMH, I don’t recall the last time we were to that number.

As far as odd city pair adds go, would not shock me to see a CMH-RDU add or even a CMH-AUS add sometime in the near future, maybe even a BNA. Lots of talk in the IND thread about explosive AA growth there, maybe they could work some of that magic here.

I'm assuming this is an A319?

jplatts · Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:10 pm

bigred10k wrote:
Love the adds by AA -- particularly the increased frequency to JFK with all of its international options. Now just add some LAX options or DAY-JFK and I would be even happier.

AA is unlikely to add DAY-LAX nonstop service with IND, OMA, and STL being the only Midwest cities other than Chicago that currently have AA nonstop service to LAX.

IND, OMA, and STL are all also in bigger markets by number of passengers than DAY is. IND and STL are also in bigger metro areas (by metropolitan area population) than both DAY and OMA.

bigred10k wrote:
It really seems like DL is throwing in the towel on serving the midwest, Ohio in particular. Travelling from DAY on DL will now require going through ATL or LGA (1x daily?). Meanwhile AA maintains robust service to many of its hubs (DCA, DFW, ORD, CLT, LGA, and PHL) from DAY.

DAY can likely support service on a 5th airline in addition to AA, DL, UA, and G4 with the cuts that DL and UA have made at DAY in the last 2 1/2 years.

XP adding service to DAY might be a possibility with XP having recently added service to markets such as AZO, LAN, and LEX that don't currently have service on F9, NK, MX, or WN.

F9 re-adding service to DAY might be a possibility with DAY no longer having any nonstop service to DEN along with F9 having added or resumed service to some markets east of the Mississippi River that are smaller than DAY. F9 also currently has nonstop service to DEN from a few markets that don't currently have UA nonstop service to DEN such as ALB, BMI, BUF, GRB, PVD, and ROC.

The possibility of MX adding service to DAY had also previously been discussed in the Rest of Ohio Aviation Thread.

N292UX · Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:20 pm

Not sure if anyone posted this yet but DL officially resumed CVG-CDG on 8/2. Currently 3x weekly and is currently loaded in the schedule as going daily in March but that obviously could change. Glad to se that DL's most important route out of CVG is officially back up and running for the first time since 2020.

CVG-ORD/DFW are also currently slated to resume in April. Obviously could change but wouldn't surprise me if they do actually resume just to give the 9E CVG crew some extra cycles. Also wouldn't surprise me if DL does eventually try out CVG-MIA given their current position/plans in MIA with LATAM.

bigred10k · Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:25 pm

JPlatts, just to be clear, I was not at all asking or expecting that DAY-LAX would be added anytime soon. It would make much more sense for AA to add CMH/CVG to LAX first and fully resume CVG-PHX. Meanwhile, I would think AA would first resume DAY-MIA and consider DAY-PHX before DAY-LAX.

brooklynchris13 · Tue Aug 09, 2022 5:58 am

DeltaRules wrote:
brooklynchris13 wrote:
CMHtraveler wrote:
November is scheduled for a lot of legacy mainline at CMH too; AA has CLT up to 3x mainline and PHL getting a 319 as well in addition to the usual all-mainline DFW and PHX. UA has ORD up to 3x mainline as well and IAH goes all-mainline, along with DEN and SFO. Even DL gets in on the action with a 717 on the last DTW turn of the day to go along with the usual mainline shuttle to ATL. It’s a trend we’ve already been seeing post-pandemic (fewer frequencies, larger aircraft) but seems like it’s accelerating as we move into fall.

On the not so good news side, DL is cutting DAY-DTW in October, currently 1x CR9. Smaller markets like DAY are really suffering with the regional staffing situation.

Add DCA to the destinations getting mainline in the November AA schedule. 11 mainline a day is pretty high for CMH, I don’t recall the last time we were to that number.

As far as odd city pair adds go, would not shock me to see a CMH-RDU add or even a CMH-AUS add sometime in the near future, maybe even a BNA. Lots of talk in the IND thread about explosive AA growth there, maybe they could work some of that magic here.

I'm assuming this is an A319?

Yes, your assumption is correct. One DCA turn is a 319.

Speaking from recent experience, the upguage in AC size is making the morning rush very crowded at CMH. The B security line was out to the Delta ticket counters on Sunday AM (although there was a dog being used for enhanced security) and the boarding lounges were packed, esp B21 for my 319 to PHX.

Dont know how A and C are doing but I assume that A has to be pretty packed as well.

jplatts · Wed Aug 10, 2022 10:24 pm

a320flyer wrote:
Up until a few years ago, both legacies were mostly 50-seat RJs into CVG.

All of the AA CVG-ORD nonstop flights after 3/25/2023 have been upgauged to CRJ-700 or bigger aircraft, and all of the AA CVG-PHL nonstop flights after 11/29/2022 have been upgauged to CRJ-700 or larger aircraft.

UA CVG-ORD/IAD will be the only remaining domestic routes out of CVG that still have nonstop flights on 50-seat regional jets after March 2023, but some of the UA CVG-ORD/IAD nonstop flights will be on planes larger than 50-seat regional jets in April 2023.

AC will be the only other airline operating 50-seat regional jets out of CVG after March 2023 with AC still operating 50-seat regional jets on its CVG-YYZ nonstop flights.

jplatts · Thu Aug 11, 2022 1:30 am

F9 is going to be completely dropping ATL-CVG nonstop service after 1/2/2023.

CVG can probably support WN nonstop service to ATL with F9 completely dropping ATL-CVG nonstop service. CVG-ATL had similar PDEW's in Q1 2022 to that of some other markets with WN nonstop service to ATL such as ATL-LIT/SDF/OKC/OMA/SRQ.

Here is how the CVG-ATL PDEW compares to other nonstop routes out of ATL in Q1 2022:
ATL-SRQ - 158
ATL-SDF - 138
ATL-CVG - 138
ATL-OKC - 121
ATL-OMA - 116
ATL-LIT - 113

There would be more connecting opportunities available through ATL on WN than what F9 had offered from CVG-ATL flights if WN adds CVG-ATL nonstop service.

ibthebigd · Thu Aug 11, 2022 10:24 pm

I'd be happy with CVG-STL on Southwest.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

Midwestindy · Sat Aug 13, 2022 2:32 pm

Looks like DL threw in the towel on CVG-DFW/ORD, previously were slated to return next April but now completely gone from schedule.

a320flyer · Sat Aug 13, 2022 2:52 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Looks like DL threw in the towel on CVG-DFW/ORD, previously were slated to return next April but now completely gone from schedule.

RDU-ORD/PHL also wiped from the schedules. Seems like DL has little interest competing with AA out of CVG/RDU.

Makes you wonder how long AUS-CVG/RDU and BNA-RDU on DL will stick around.

jplatts · Sat Aug 13, 2022 6:53 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Looks like DL threw in the towel on CVG-DFW/ORD, previously were slated to return next April but now completely gone from schedule.

CVG can support WN nonstop service to DAL with DL and F9 having completely dropped CVG-DFW nonstop service.

WN also has stronger point-of-sale than DL or F9 in the Dallas/Fort Worth market to support CVG-DAL nonstop service on WN.

The connecting opportunities that were previously there from DL CVG-DFW nonstop flights are no longer there with DL having already completely dropped CVG-BWI/CLT/BDL/PHL/RDU nonstop service, whereas there would be connecting opportunities to other destinations in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, and California if WN CVG-DAL nonstop service is added.

WN can make CVG-DAL nonstop service work with less O&D traffic with the connections that WN would be able to offer through DAL if WN CVG-DAL nonstop service is added, whereas DL and F9 are more reliant on CVG-DFW O&D to make CVG-DFW nonstop service work.

jplatts · Sun Aug 14, 2022 3:25 pm

a320flyer wrote:
RDU-ORD/PHL also wiped from the schedules. Seems like DL has little interest competing with AA out of CVG/RDU.

Makes you wonder how long AUS-CVG/RDU and BNA-RDU on DL will stick around.

There are a few markets that both AA and DL still serve nonstop from CVG such as AUS, BOS, MIA/FLL (with AA operating CVG-MIA nonstop service and DL operating CVG-FLL nonstop service), NYC (with both AA and DL serving LGA/JFK nonstop from CVG), and WAS (with both AA and DL serving DCA nonstop from CVG).

DL CVG-DCA nonstop service is likely safe through at least October 2023 as DL still has the GSA contract for CVG-DCA through 9/30/2023. DCA is also a slot restricted airport.

DL CVG-BOS/LGA/JFK nonstop service is not at risk of getting dropped with DL still having hubs at BOS/LGA/JFK.

DL CVG-LAX nonstop service is likely safe, even if CVG-LAX nonstop service is added by AA, with DL having a hub at LAX along with DL having nonstop service to LAX to some other destinations that AA/AS don't currently serve nonstop from LAX such as DTW, MCI, MEM, MSP, and MSY.

Here were the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors for CVG-AUS in April 2022:
CVG-AUS on AA - 7125 passengers, 8284 seats, 86.01% load factor
CVG-AUS on DL - 3177 passengers, 3800 seats, 83.61% load factor

Here were the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors for CVG-AUS in May 2022:
CVG-AUS on AA - 7256 passengers, 8208 seats, 88.40% load factor
CVG-AUS on DL - 3316 passengers, 3800 seats, 87.26% load factor
CVG-AUS on G4 - 1361 passengers, 1488 seats, 91.47% load factor

Enough demand is there for DL to continue to serve AUS nonstop from CVG with the load factors that DL was getting on CVG-AUS nonstop service in April 2022 and May 2022.

Here were the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors for CVG-MIA/FLL in April 2022:
CVG-MIA on AA - 9087 passengers, 9908 seats, 91.71% load factor
CVG-MIA on F9 - 3258 passengers, 4092 seats, 79.62% load factor
CVG-FLL on DL - 6516 passengers, 7038 seats, 92.58% load factor
CVG-FLL on G4 - 9838 passengers, 10458 seats, 94.07% load factor

Here were the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors for CVG-MIA/FLL in May 2022:
CVG-MIA on AA - 8501 passengers, 9424 seats, 90.21% load factor
CVG-FLL on DL - 6446 passengers, 7034 seats, 91.64% load factor
CVG-FLL on G4 - 10025 passengers, 10938 seats, 91.65% load factor

DL CVG-AUS/FLL nonstop service is probably safe with the amount of demand that is there to AUS/FLL from CVG on DL and with DL currently serving both of these destinations nonstop from CVG.

beertrucker · Sun Aug 14, 2022 10:18 pm

Just landed at CMH. As approaching gate 26 off of 10L I saw a tail of an ex Southern Air plane I think on the east pad. I never walked over to see and got in my car and went home. I kinda forgot about it and did not take sawyer road out to see it. I remembered it while on 270. Anyone one out that way have any info about it or a pic?

beertrucker · Sun Aug 14, 2022 10:20 pm

Duplicate please delete

brooklynchris13 · Sun Aug 14, 2022 11:46 pm

beertrucker wrote:
Just landed at CMH. As approaching gate 26 off of 10L I saw a tail of an ex Southern Air plane I think on the east pad. I never walked over to see and got in my car and went home. I kinda forgot about it and did not take sawyer road out to see it. I remembered it while on 270. Anyone one out that way have any info about it or a pic?

If you are talking about N8314, the National 757 its still there. Parked over by the Caravelle. Can’t say I remember ever seeing one of those here. According to FR24 it came in from Ponce PR yesterday. Have to see what that may be related to. Probably something sports related but ya never know.

brooklynchris13 · Sun Aug 14, 2022 11:47 pm

brooklynchris13 wrote:
beertrucker wrote:
Just landed at CMH. As approaching gate 26 off of 10L I saw a tail of an ex Southern Air plane I think on the east pad. I never walked over to see and got in my car and went home. I kinda forgot about it and did not take sawyer road out to see it. I remembered it while on 270. Anyone one out that way have any info about it or a pic?

If you are talking about N963CW, the National 757 its still there. Parked over by the Caravelle. Can’t say I remember ever seeing one of those here. According to FR24 it came in from Ponce PR yesterday. Have to see what that may be related to. Probably something sports related but ya never know.

beertrucker · Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:14 am

brooklynchris13 wrote:
beertrucker wrote:
Just landed at CMH. As approaching gate 26 off of 10L I saw a tail of an ex Southern Air plane I think on the east pad. I never walked over to see and got in my car and went home. I kinda forgot about it and did not take sawyer road out to see it. I remembered it while on 270. Anyone one out that way have any info about it or a pic?

If you are talking about N8314, the National 757 its still there. Parked over by the Caravelle. Can’t say I remember ever seeing one of those here. According to FR24 it came in from Ponce PR yesterday. Have to see what that may be related to. Probably something sports related but ya never know.

I guessing that what it is. I only caught a glimpse quick so it kinda looked like southern. Ty national makes sense too. Thank you for the answer.

brooklynchris13 · Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:52 pm

beertrucker wrote:
brooklynchris13 wrote:
beertrucker wrote:
Just landed at CMH. As approaching gate 26 off of 10L I saw a tail of an ex Southern Air plane I think on the east pad. I never walked over to see and got in my car and went home. I kinda forgot about it and did not take sawyer road out to see it. I remembered it while on 270. Anyone one out that way have any info about it or a pic?

If you are talking about N8314, the National 757 its still there. Parked over by the Caravelle. Can’t say I remember ever seeing one of those here. According to FR24 it came in from Ponce PR yesterday. Have to see what that may be related to. Probably something sports related but ya never know.

I guessing that what it is. I only caught a glimpse quick so it kinda looked like southern. Ty national makes sense too. Thank you for the answer.

My pleasure! Whenever I am on the east side, if I have time, I will take a quick drive by CMH to see if anything interesting is there. Yesterday the National 757 (Ex AA Bird) and a few months ago, a C5... you just never know what might be out there.

cmhman · Mon Aug 15, 2022 9:16 pm

CMH peeps: does gate A7 have a hold room downstairs? I remember flying Continental from gate A5A and it was just stairs and a door to the tarmac. I drove by the terminal today and looked like there may be something downstairs at A7. Just curious. I’m sure it’s closed off now since WN has no need for it.

brooklynchris13 · Mon Aug 15, 2022 9:31 pm

cmhman wrote:
CMH peeps: does gate A7 have a hold room downstairs? I remember flying Continental from gate A5A and it was just stairs and a door to the tarmac. I drove by the terminal today and looked like there may be something downstairs at A7. Just curious. I’m sure it’s closed off now since WN has no need for it.

I don't know what the condition is of it today, but it absolutely used to. That was where the US Airways Express Aircraft (340s, J31s, etc.) and before that Piedmont J31s to DAY boarded.

cmhman · Tue Aug 16, 2022 1:07 am

brooklynchris13 wrote:
cmhman wrote:
CMH peeps: does gate A7 have a hold room downstairs? I remember flying Continental from gate A5A and it was just stairs and a door to the tarmac. I drove by the terminal today and looked like there may be something downstairs at A7. Just curious. I’m sure it’s closed off now since WN has no need for it.

I don't know what the condition is of it today, but it absolutely used to. That was where the US Airways Express Aircraft (340s, J31s, etc.) and before that Piedmont J31s to DAY boarded.

Thanks. I assume that’s the only ground level hold room at CMH? Other than those they put in for Skybus?

Has anyone gone through customs? Was curious how that was Set up. I saw C46 emptied right onto the C gates with no glass corridor or anything.

beertrucker · Tue Aug 16, 2022 1:11 am

cmhman wrote:
brooklynchris13 wrote:
cmhman wrote:
CMH peeps: does gate A7 have a hold room downstairs? I remember flying Continental from gate A5A and it was just stairs and a door to the tarmac. I drove by the terminal today and looked like there may be something downstairs at A7. Just curious. I’m sure it’s closed off now since WN has no need for it.

I don't know what the condition is of it today, but it absolutely used to. That was where the US Airways Express Aircraft (340s, J31s, etc.) and before that Piedmont J31s to DAY boarded.

Thanks. I assume that’s the only ground level hold room at CMH? Other than those they put in for Skybus?

Has anyone gone through customs? Was curious how that was Set up. I saw C46 emptied right onto the C gates with no glass corridor or anything.

At least when I used to work there. C46 has a garage door style door that comes down and they open doors in the back of room to go down to customs. They have their own bag belt there.

DeltaRules · Tue Aug 16, 2022 3:16 am

brooklynchris13 wrote:
cmhman wrote:
CMH peeps: does gate A7 have a hold room downstairs? I remember flying Continental from gate A5A and it was just stairs and a door to the tarmac. I drove by the terminal today and looked like there may be something downstairs at A7. Just curious. I’m sure it’s closed off now since WN has no need for it.

I don't know what the condition is of it today, but it absolutely used to. That was where the US Airways Express Aircraft (340s, J31s, etc.) and before that Piedmont J31s to DAY boarded.

I always wondered why CO didn't just use A7. I seem to remember ERJs parked perpendicularly at A5A.

AirportRival · Thu Aug 18, 2022 9:58 pm

A little bit of info regarding AA at CVG.

I flew out of CVG on Monday and noticed that AA now has gates B18, B20, B22, B24, B26, B27, and B28. That would mean that they have added B27 and B28 since their move from Concourse A to Concourse B. I would imagine they probably don't really need that many gates except in the morning push but I take it as AA is serious about CVG.

Pair that with this article https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/ ... -push.html and it indicates AA doesn't plan to back down anytime soon.

Maybe I will get an Aadvantage card after all. I may be flying out of CVG again next week so I'll get picks of the additional gates if I have time.

Midwestindy · Thu Aug 18, 2022 10:00 pm

"American Airlines’ CVG push: ‘We will be a force to reckon with’"

New AA service has been succesful, "in first tier of volume and profitability." Will continue to look for new opportunities....

Have their eye on CVG-LAX.

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/ ... -push.html

Midwestindy · Thu Aug 18, 2022 10:01 pm

AirportRival wrote:
A little bit of info regarding AA at CVG.

I flew out of CVG on Monday and noticed that AA now has gates B18, B20, B22, B24, B26, B27, and B28. That would mean that they have added B27 and B28 since their move from Concourse A to Concourse B. I would imagine they probably don't really need that many gates except in the morning push but I take it as AA is serious about CVG.

Pair that with this article https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/ ... -push.html and it indicates AA doesn't plan to back down anytime soon.

Maybe I will get an Aadvantage card after all. I may be flying out of CVG again next week so I'll get picks of the additional gates if I have time.

Lol posted at the same time as you.

PITFlyer330 · Thu Aug 18, 2022 10:07 pm

AirportRival wrote:
A little bit of info regarding AA at CVG.

I flew out of CVG on Monday and noticed that AA now has gates B18, B20, B22, B24, B26, B27, and B28. That would mean that they have added B27 and B28 since their move from Concourse A to Concourse B. I would imagine they probably don't really need that many gates except in the morning push but I take it as AA is serious about CVG.

Pair that with this article https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/ ... -push.html and it indicates AA doesn't plan to back down anytime soon.

Maybe I will get an Aadvantage card after all. I may be flying out of CVG again next week so I'll get picks of the additional gates if I have time.

Maybe CVG to IND PIT TPA?

good candidate for British airways to Heathrow?

Midwestindy · Thu Aug 18, 2022 10:53 pm

PITFlyer330 wrote:
AirportRival wrote:
A little bit of info regarding AA at CVG.

I flew out of CVG on Monday and noticed that AA now has gates B18, B20, B22, B24, B26, B27, and B28. That would mean that they have added B27 and B28 since their move from Concourse A to Concourse B. I would imagine they probably don't really need that many gates except in the morning push but I take it as AA is serious about CVG.

Pair that with this article https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/ ... -push.html and it indicates AA doesn't plan to back down anytime soon.

Maybe I will get an Aadvantage card after all. I may be flying out of CVG again next week so I'll get picks of the additional gates if I have time.

Maybe CVG to IND PIT TPA?

good candidate for British airways to Heathrow?

CVG-TPA likely, no chance of CVG-IND/PIT

RAM787 · Thu Aug 18, 2022 11:45 pm

cmhman wrote:
CMH peeps: does gate A7 have a hold room downstairs? I remember flying Continental from gate A5A and it was just stairs and a door to the tarmac. I drove by the terminal today and looked like there may be something downstairs at A7. Just curious. I’m sure it’s closed off now since WN has no need for it.

It doesn't have a holding room for passengers, just a room with an elevator, a staircase, and a pet relief area that nobody uses because it's not in the sterile area. The staircase is carpeted and drywalled and has a sign that says "welcome to Columbus".

jplatts · Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:06 am

Midwestindy wrote:
CVG-TPA likely, no chance of CVG-IND/PIT

I agree that IND would probably be never served nonstop from CVG with the great circle distance of IND-CVG being only 99 miles. All of the AA/DL/UA nonstop routes that are 100 miles or shorter are to or from hubs.

B6 and 9K operate BOS-MVY/ACK nonstop service (both of which are shorter than CVG-IND), but MVY and ACK are located on islands in the Atlantic Ocean that are only connected to the Massachusetts mainland by ferry or air.

The only nonstop routes shorter than CVG-IND that are served nonstop by WN are COS-DEN and OGG-KOA, but COS-DEN is a nonstop route to a WN hub and OGG-KOA is an interisland nonstop route between Maui and the Big Island.

I also agree that CVG-PIT nonstop service is unlikely to be added as there isn't likely enough CVG-PIT O&D demand to justify adding CVG-PIT nonstop service. The PDEW's of CVG-CHI were also significantly below pre-pandemic levels through at least the end of March 2022, but MDW/ORD still have nonstop service from CVG due to AA/UA/WN hubs.

jplatts · Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:22 am

Here are the Q1 2022 PDEW's of the top contiguous U.S. markets traveled to from CVG that don't currently have AA nonstop service out of CVG:
CVG-MCO/SFB - 575
CVG-RSW/PGD - 385
CVG-LAS - 327
CVG-TPA/PIE - 305
CVG-DEN - 295
CVG-LAX/BUR/LGB/ONT/SNA - 259
CVG-ATL - 138
CVG-IAH/HOU - 129
CVG-SFO/OAK/SJC - 92
CVG-SEA - 90 (AA codeshares on AS's CVG-SEA nonstop flights)
CVG-SLC - 87
CVG-SRQ - 86
CVG-MSP - 83
CVG-SAN - 62
CVG-VPS - 62

Most of the above markets already have nonstop service out of CVG on other airlines, but SFO/SAN currently don't have any nonstop service out of CVG.

WWads · Fri Aug 19, 2022 3:31 am

AirportRival wrote:
A little bit of info regarding AA at CVG.

I flew out of CVG on Monday and noticed that AA now has gates B18, B20, B22, B24, B26, B27, and B28. That would mean that they have added B27 and B28 since their move from Concourse A to Concourse B. I would imagine they probably don't really need that many gates except in the morning push but I take it as AA is serious about CVG.

Pair that with this article https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/ ... -push.html and it indicates AA doesn't plan to back down anytime soon.

Maybe I will get an Aadvantage card after all. I may be flying out of CVG again next week so I'll get picks of the additional gates if I have time.

I wonder if there's space for an Admirals Club. Maybe an un-used concourse level crew lounge from the DL hub days?

If AA truly has serious long term plans a lounge would help solidify their position.

DeltaRules · Fri Aug 19, 2022 3:48 am

jplatts wrote:
Here are the Q1 2022 PDEW's of the top contiguous U.S. markets traveled to from CVG that don't currently have AA nonstop service out of CVG:
CVG-MCO/SFB - 575
CVG-RSW/PGD - 385
CVG-LAS - 327
CVG-TPA/PIE - 305
CVG-DEN - 295
CVG-LAX/BUR/LGB/ONT/SNA - 259
CVG-ATL - 138
CVG-IAH/HOU - 129
CVG-SFO/OAK/SJC - 92
CVG-SEA - 90 (AA codeshares on AS's CVG-SEA nonstop flights)
CVG-SLC - 87
CVG-SRQ - 86
CVG-MSP - 83
CVG-SAN - 62
CVG-VPS - 62

Most of the above markets already have nonstop service out of CVG on other airlines, but SFO/SAN currently don't have any nonstop service out of CVG.

P2P of that scale doesn't seem to be AA's style for the most part, but CVG-SFO suddenly would have lots of nonstop service if AA tried to start it. I can't see neither of DL or UA going "Nuh-uh".

Jshank83 · Fri Aug 19, 2022 6:33 am

jplatts wrote:
Here are the Q1 2022 PDEW's of the top contiguous U.S. markets traveled to from CVG that don't currently have AA nonstop service out of CVG:
CVG-MCO/SFB - 575
CVG-RSW/PGD - 385
CVG-LAS - 327
CVG-TPA/PIE - 305
CVG-DEN - 295
CVG-LAX/BUR/LGB/ONT/SNA - 259
CVG-ATL - 138
CVG-IAH/HOU - 129
CVG-SFO/OAK/SJC - 92
CVG-SEA - 90 (AA codeshares on AS's CVG-SEA nonstop flights)
CVG-SLC - 87
CVG-SRQ - 86
CVG-MSP - 83
CVG-SAN - 62
CVG-VPS - 62

Most of the above markets already have nonstop service out of CVG on other airlines, but SFO/SAN currently don't have any nonstop service out of CVG.

I feel like you keep posting quarter 1 numbers and it’s misleading. I’d do the average for the last year or something. Quarter 1 is almost always the worst month except maybe to Florida destinations.

jplatts · Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:26 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
P2P of that scale doesn't seem to be AA's style for the most part, but CVG-SFO suddenly would have lots of nonstop service if AA tried to start it. I can't see neither of DL or UA going "Nuh-uh".

I agree that AA is unlikely to add CVG-SFO nonstop service with AA currently only serving its CLT/ORD/DFW/LAX/MIA/JFK/PHL/PHX hubs nonstop from SFO.

Most of the domestic nonstop routes that UA operated out of SFO prior to the COVID-19 pandemic currently have UA nonstop service to SFO.

There are still a handful of UA nonstop routes out of SFO that are still suspended such as SFO-DTW/MCI/MSN/MSP/OKC/OMA/STL, but UA will be resuming SFO-MCI nonstop service on 9/5/2022 and UA will be resuming SFO-MSP/OMA nonstop service on 9/6/2022. UA SFO-DTW/MSN/OKC/STL nonstop service is still scheduled to resume on 1/4/2023.

There are only a handful of UA domestic nonstop routes out of SFO that have been completely dropped by UA, including SFO-CVG/FAI/GJT/MMH/RAP/TWF/XNA.

I agree that the return of UA CVG-SFO nonstop service is a possibility with
(a) the lack of CVG-SFO nonstop service being one of the biggest holes in both markets,
(b) UA likely able to get enough O&D traffic onto CVG-SFO nonstop flights if it re-adds CVG-SFO nonstop service,
(c) UA still having a significant FF base in the San Francisco Bay Area,
(d) most of the domestic nonstop routes that UA was operating out of SFO prior to the COVID-19 pandemic still have UA nonstop service out of SFO, whereas DL has permanently dropped more of its nonstop routes out of CVG to non-DL hub destinations, and
(e) UA facing the possibility of a competitor such as AS, G4, AA, F9, or WN adding nonstop service to SFO/OAK out of CVG if it doesn't re-add SFO-CVG nonstop service.

UA is also less likely to see a competitive response from DL if UA re-adds CVG-SFO nonstop service with UA still having nonstop service to ORD/IAH/IAD out of CVG whereas DL has already completely dropped CVG-ORD/IAH/IAD nonstop service.

jplatts · Fri Aug 19, 2022 3:44 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
I feel like you keep posting quarter 1 numbers and it’s misleading. I’d do the average for the last year or something. Quarter 1 is almost always the worst month except maybe to Florida destinations.

Here were the 2019 PDEW's of the top contiguous U.S. markets traveled to from CVG that don't currently have AA nonstop service out of CVG:
CVG-MCO/SFB - 521
CVG-LAX/BUR/LGB/ONT/SNA - 399
CVG-DEN - 385
CVG-LAS - 366
CVG-TPA/PIE - 323
CVG-RSW/PGD - 301
CVG-SFO/OAK/SJC - 297
CVG-ATL - 227
CVG-IAH/HOU - 189
CVG-MSP - 152
CVG-SEA - 135 (AA already codeshares on AS CVG-SEA nonstop service)
CVG-VPS - 112
CVG-SAN - 107
CVG-SLC - 98
CVG-MSY - 84

Most of the above markets already have plenty of nonstop service out of CVG on other airlines, but SFO/SAN don't currently have any nonstop service out of CVG.

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