F9 has already dropped CVG-DFW nonstop service from its flight schedules after 6/7/2022 (apart from CVG-DFW nonstop flights on 11/16/2022).

CVG can likely support nonstop service to DAL on WN in addition to AA nonstop service to DFW, especially with the cuts that F9 and DL have made on the CVG-DFW route.

WN would also be able to offer connections to other destinations in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, and Southern California through DAL from CVG if WN adds CVG-DAL nonstop service.

WN also has a significant FF base in the Dallas/Fort Worth market (plus stronger point-of-sale than DL or F9 in the Dallas/Fort Worth market) to support CVG-DAL nonstop service on WN.

One issue that F9 was facing on the CVG-DFW route in 2021 was that F9 had weaker load factors on CVG-DFW in 2021 than it did prior to the COVID-19 pandemic.

WN would probably be able to more easily fill CVG-DAL nonstop flights than F9 with (a) the connecting traffic that WN would have on CVG-DAL, (b) the stronger point-of-sale that WN has in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and Southern California, and (c) WN able to operate CVG-DAL on 143-seat 737-700's whereas F9 has to use 180-seat A320's or bigger planes to operate CVG-DFW nonstop service.

WN has still had to make some cuts to its Summer 2022 flight schedules (including completely dropping a few routes that WN was originally planning on operating in Summer 2022) due to the operational issues that WN is still facing.

I have noticed that F9 still has nonstop service out of CVG to most of the other markets that it was planning on serving nonstop from CVG in Summer 2022, including ATL, DEN, RSW, LAS, MIA, MCO, PHL, RDU, and TPA.

jplatts wrote:

F9 has already dropped CVG-DFW nonstop service from its flight schedules after 6/7/2022 (apart from CVG-DFW nonstop flights on 11/16/2022).

CVG can likely support nonstop service to DAL on WN in addition to AA nonstop service to DFW, especially with the cuts that F9 and DL have made on the CVG-DFW route.

WN would also be able to offer connections to other destinations in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, and Southern California through DAL from CVG if WN adds CVG-DAL nonstop service.

WN also has a significant FF base in the Dallas/Fort Worth market (plus stronger point-of-sale than DL or F9 in the Dallas/Fort Worth market) to support CVG-DAL nonstop service on WN.

One issue that F9 was facing on the CVG-DFW route in 2021 was that F9 had weaker load factors on CVG-DFW in 2021 than it did prior to the COVID-19 pandemic.

WN would probably be able to more easily fill CVG-DAL nonstop flights than F9 with (a) the connecting traffic that WN would have on CVG-DAL, (b) the stronger point-of-sale that WN has in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and Southern California, and (c) WN able to operate CVG-DAL on 143-seat 737-700's whereas F9 has to use 180-seat A320's or bigger planes to operate CVG-DFW nonstop service.

WN has still had to make some cuts to its Summer 2022 flight schedules (including completely dropping a few routes that WN was originally planning on operating in Summer 2022) due to the operational issues that WN is still facing.

I have noticed that F9 still has nonstop service out of CVG to most of the other markets that it was planning on serving nonstop from CVG in Summer 2022, including ATL, DEN, RSW, LAS, MIA, MCO, PHL, RDU, and TPA.

F9 still feels like a dartboard airline. They drop CVG-DFW and then restart for the umpteenth time CLE-DFW. Don't get it.

CMHtraveler wrote:

DeltaRules wrote:

AC's CMH-YYZ is back up to 3x/day starting today.

Great to see the AC counter come back to life as well as the quirky boarding operation with passengers walking out on the ramp between two UA gates. It will be really interesting to find out what the plan is for AC boarding at the new terminal.

I would think they would get a normal gate somewhere around where United is (at least in general terms since I don’t think any airlines will have full control over any gates)

Regarding the new terminal, does anyone have any intel on if Allegiant will make the move up to the new terminal or will they likely stay at LCK? With LCK busy with cargo now, maybe the need is not there for the small passenger operation to help sustain thinngs there?

brooklynchris13 wrote:

CMHtraveler wrote:

DeltaRules wrote:

AC's CMH-YYZ is back up to 3x/day starting today.

Great to see the AC counter come back to life as well as the quirky boarding operation with passengers walking out on the ramp between two UA gates. It will be really interesting to find out what the plan is for AC boarding at the new terminal.

I would think they would get a normal gate somewhere around where United is (at least in general terms since I don’t think any airlines will have full control over any gates)

Regarding the new terminal, does anyone have any intel on if Allegiant will make the move up to the new terminal or will they likely stay at LCK? With LCK busy with cargo now, maybe the need is not there for the small passenger operation to help sustain thinngs there?

Outside opinion. New terminal means higher fees. So that probably doesn’t bode well for Allegiant moving into it.

Also if cargo is up at LCK that probably means fees are down for Allegiant.

Moving from LCK to CMH would make no sense whatsoever, given G4 usually goes for second-tier airports (SFB vs MCO, PIE vs TPA, AZA vs PHX, etc.). LCK works well for them, so why change just for the sake of change? I actually think G4 could expand their service there without a need to expand the terminal (though some better amenities would hope to come with expansion).

Looks like CMH-PHL will join the AA upguage party with a 319 for the evening flight in September.

CMHtraveler wrote:

Looks like CMH-PHL will join the AA upguage party with a 319 for the evening flight in September.

Saw that, and the introduction of a 321(!) on one of the CLT flights. I do not think that has ever happened before.

Re:Allegiant moving to New CMH, by the time that the new terminal opens, LCK will be due for some sort of refresh. If those facility updates get passed to the only airline there, it could become a wash to move where everyone else is. Plus you have the costs of everything else associated with the terminal from Police to TSA, maintenance personnel, utilities, etc. I understand its a good operation for Allegiant, but would they pull out of the Columbus market if they had to move up the road? Maybe they are narrow on profit margin, but if they can fly from IND I have to think that it work at CMH, especially since they are doing well here.

brooklynchris13 wrote:

Regarding the new terminal, does anyone have any intel on if Allegiant will make the move up to the new terminal or will they likely stay at LCK? With LCK busy with cargo now, maybe the need is not there for the small passenger operation to help sustain thinngs there?

Valid question. As others have mentioned, Allegiant has built some nice niche operations in cities with more than one airport in their metropolitan area. I don't really see them moving to CMH and giving up on the exclusivity and market differentiation that LCK affords them. The CRAA also has a financial incentive to keeping G4 at LCK as their passenger numbers make the facility eligible for federal grants for airport improvements.

CMHtraveler wrote:

Looks like CMH-PHL will join the AA upguage party with a 319 for the evening flight in September.

Nice find! Assuming all stays the same, CLT is slated to go down to only 2 of 6 flights on mainline aircraft, though the morning flight is upgauged to an A321. Still no LAX.

Good to see PHL finally get mainline back that isn't in the form of an E190. Not that there's anything wrong with an E190, mind, it's just no longer an option.

brooklynchris13 wrote:

Maybe they are narrow on profit margin, but if they can fly from IND I have to think that it work at CMH, especially since they are doing well here.

The difference between IND and Columbus is why I had to spell out the name of the latter; IND only has one airport for commercial operations, giving G4 no choice, while Columbus has two.

The better analog in the region might be STL and BLV or, perhaps, DTW and TOL.

flyCMH wrote:

brooklynchris13 wrote:

Regarding the new terminal, does anyone have any intel on if Allegiant will make the move up to the new terminal or will they likely stay at LCK? With LCK busy with cargo now, maybe the need is not there for the small passenger operation to help sustain thinngs there?

Valid question. As others have mentioned, Allegiant has built some nice niche operations in cities with more than one airport in their metropolitan area. I don't really see them moving to CMH and giving up on the exclusivity and market differentiation that LCK affords them. The CRAA also has a financial incentive to keeping G4 at LCK as their passenger numbers make the facility eligible for federal grants for airport improvements.

Anecdotal, but a non-avgeek work buddy (for whom ticket price is not a major factor) takes his whole family of 4 down to Florida for vacation on G4 regularly for no other reason than the perceived ease of travel through LCK. I’m not even sure it’s really that different (CMH is no ATL), but at least one person in G4’s target demographic believes it to be easier with kids. Just one example of the market differentiation you’re describing, but I agree they wouldn’t want to lose it. They seem to have a good thing going and the place all to themselves.

flyCMH wrote:

Still no LAX.

I’m trying out the NK nonstop next week and am not overly excited about it. With the restart of SFO in a few weeks, lack of a network carrier to LAX remains the biggest post-pandemic hole CRAA should be working to fill. I wonder if UA would bite with the proper incentive or if they’d be worried it would cannibalize SFO too much? Very different markets though.

Official release regarding the new Centurion Lounge at CMH: https://columbusairports.com/blog/posts ... fJjGrEMJIM

Interestingly, eligible passengers seeking lounge access flying WN/MX/F9/DL will be given access to Concourse B to visit.

DeltaRules wrote:

Official release regarding the new Centurion Lounge at CMH: https://columbusairports.com/blog/posts ... fJjGrEMJIM

Interestingly, eligible passengers seeking lounge access flying WN/MX/F9/DL will be given access to Concourse B to visit.

The Centurion Lounges are extremely nice. This looks to be a pared-down version:

https://escapelounges.com/

I'm glad CMH was able to partner with them for the new lounge space. The press release says it will be located by B32. I believe it was mentioned the lounge will take former office space located behind the "Columbus Marketplace" sundries store. So it certainly won't be a very large lounge. Too bad they couldn't put the lounge in Concourse C. While B has more traffic, more Delta passengers would likely be able to avail themselves of the new lounge. A Delta passenger will have to go through screening twice, once to access the lounge and once again to go to their gate in C, walking down the length of both concourse to get to each destination. Definitely far from optimal.

May CRAA board agenda is out and includes some lounge updates as well as the hiring of a civil engineering firm to begin expansion of the red lot. The agenda explains that this is necessary because the blue lot will be closed for construction of the new terminal.

https://columbusairports.com/storage/pr ... 4-2022.pdf

Has MX been using C50 recently? I came in the other night and there was a photocopied Breeze Contract of Carriage on the podium.

CMHtraveler wrote:

May CRAA board agenda is out and includes some lounge updates as well as the hiring of a civil engineering firm to begin expansion of the red lot. The agenda explains that this is necessary because the blue lot will be closed for construction of the new terminal.

https://columbusairports.com/storage/pr ... 4-2022.pdf

This also illustrates where the club is going to be and it's between the restrooms and B32. I thought it was going to be on the bend where there was once an arcade for some reason.

izbtmnhd wrote:

F9 still feels like a dartboard airline. They drop CVG-DFW and then restart for the umpteenth time CLE-DFW. Don't get it.

WN can likely make CVG-DAL nonstop service work with the stronger point of sale that WN has in the Dallas/Fort Worth market and the connecting opportunities that would be there to some other destinations in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and Southern California through DAL.

WN would also probably be able to provide more stable service on CVG-DAL than what F9 was offering on CVG-DFW if WN wasn't facing the operational issues that WN is currently facing.

WN also has more room at DAL than it did 3 years ago with the cuts that WN has made on other routes out of DAL and with WN currently operating fewer flights out of DAL than it did prior to the COVID-19 pandemic (174 daily departures out of DAL on WN in Summer 2022 compared to 195 daily departures out of DAL on WN in Summer 2019).

DL has already completely dropped CVG-SFO nonstop service from its flight schedules and pushed back the resumption of CVG-ORD/DFW nonstop service to 4/10/2023.

CVG can support the return of UA CVG-SFO nonstop service with DL having already completely dropped CVG-SFO nonstop service. The PDEW of CVG-SFO/OAK/SJC was 130 passengers/day in Q4 2021, and UA can make the return of CVG-SFO nonstop service work with the amount of O&D that is there between CVG and the San Francisco Bay Area.

Is 130 PDEW enough for a long route like that? I know it's an average and Q4 is not the busiest quarter. It seems a little light to me, not like Delta will get 100% of that even with a nonstop and even if a nonstop would stimulate demand.

ncflyer wrote:

Is 130 PDEW enough for a long route like that? I know it's an average and Q4 is not the busiest quarter. It seems a little light to me, not like Delta will get 100% of that even with a nonstop and even if a nonstop would stimulate demand.

For comparison, CMH-SFO/OAK/SJC had a PDEW of 148 passengers/day in Q4 2021, and UA is going to be resuming CMH-SFO on 6/4/2022 (which is only a week-and-a-half away).

Yes, a PDEW of 130 passengers/day is likely enough to support the resumption of UA CVG-SFO nonstop service with UA going to be resuming CMH-SFO nonstop service soon.

UA's 737-700 and A319 planes only have 126 seats, and an average load factor of 85% on a 126-seat 737-700 or A319 comes out to an average of 107 seats per flight.

There would also still be some connecting opportunities to other destinations in California and Hawaii through SFO from CVG on UA if UA re-adds CVG-SFO nonstop service.

jplatts wrote:

DL has already completely dropped CVG-SFO nonstop service from its flight schedules and pushed back the resumption of CVG-ORD/DFW nonstop service to 4/10/2023.

CVG can support the return of UA CVG-SFO nonstop service with DL having already completely dropped CVG-SFO nonstop service. The PDEW of CVG-SFO/OAK/SJC was 130 passengers/day in Q4 2021, and UA can make the return of CVG-SFO nonstop service work with the amount of O&D that is there between CVG and the San Francisco Bay Area.

Well that is disappointing. Not that I have a reason to fly the route but I hate to see another nonstop option disappear from CVG's route map.

jplatts wrote:

DL has already completely dropped CVG-SFO nonstop service from its flight schedules and pushed back the resumption of CVG-ORD/DFW nonstop service to 4/10/2023.

CVG can support the return of UA CVG-SFO nonstop service with DL having already completely dropped CVG-SFO nonstop service. The PDEW of CVG-SFO/OAK/SJC was 130 passengers/day in Q4 2021, and UA can make the return of CVG-SFO nonstop service work with the amount of O&D that is there between CVG and the San Francisco Bay Area.

It's long been discussed here that DL will likely wait to relaunch CVG-SFO until summer 2023 (similarly, they took the route off the schedule during 2021 and later reloaded it for June 2022). UA (or any other carrier) is well aware DL will relaunch the route the moment they try it (see AA/AS on CVG-AUS/BOS/SEA/etc). It has nothing to do with PDEW, there is enough demand, pre-COVID it had up to 3x/day. DL simply sees better use of their limited fleet and crew on other routes. For now, 2x CVG-SLC allows easy connections to SFO.

UA will not restart CVG-SFO, and if they do, DL will push them out quickly. They couldn't even compete with DL pre-COVID.

Similarly, DL will continue to push ORD/DFW back as long as RJ fleet/crew is tight and business demand remains low.

a320flyer wrote:

It's long been discussed here that DL will likely wait to relaunch CVG-SFO until summer 2023 (similarly, they took the route off the schedule during 2021 and later reloaded it for June 2022). UA (or any other carrier) is well aware DL will relaunch the route the moment they try it (see AA/AS on CVG-AUS/BOS/SEA/etc). It has nothing to do with PDEW, there is enough demand, pre-COVID it had up to 3x/day. DL simply sees better use of their limited fleet and crew on other routes. For now, 2x CVG-SLC allows easy connections to SFO.

UA will not restart CVG-SFO, and if they do, DL will push them out quickly. They couldn't even compete with DL pre-COVID.

UA still serves its ORD, IAH, and IAD hubs nonstop from CVG, whereas DL has already completely dropped CVG-IAH nonstop service and DL has already pushed back the resumption date of CVG-ORD to 4/10/2023. While DL had dropped CVG-IAD nonstop service almost 9 years ago, DL still serves DCA nonstop form CVG.

DL has already completely dropped CVG-CLT/PHL/PHX nonstop service, but AA still has daily nonstop service to its CLT/PHL hubs from CVG and seasonal daily nonstop service to PHX from CVG.

CVG can likely support nonstop service to Houston on more than just UA with UA currently down to 2x daily nonstops on CVG-IAH. DL re-adding CVG-IAH nonstop service, WN re-adding CVG-HOU nonstop service, or G4 adding CVG-HOU nonstop service are possibilities.

Who would be most likely to add or resume nonstop service to Houston from CVG: DL, WN, or G4?

jplatts wrote:

a320flyer wrote:

It's long been discussed here that DL will likely wait to relaunch CVG-SFO until summer 2023 (similarly, they took the route off the schedule during 2021 and later reloaded it for June 2022). UA (or any other carrier) is well aware DL will relaunch the route the moment they try it (see AA/AS on CVG-AUS/BOS/SEA/etc). It has nothing to do with PDEW, there is enough demand, pre-COVID it had up to 3x/day. DL simply sees better use of their limited fleet and crew on other routes. For now, 2x CVG-SLC allows easy connections to SFO.

UA will not restart CVG-SFO, and if they do, DL will push them out quickly. They couldn't even compete with DL pre-COVID.

UA still serves its ORD, IAH, and IAD hubs nonstop from CVG, whereas DL has already completely dropped CVG-IAH nonstop service and DL has already pushed back the resumption date of CVG-ORD to 4/10/2023. While DL had dropped CVG-IAD nonstop service almost 9 years ago, DL still serves DCA nonstop form CVG.

DL has already completely dropped CVG-CLT/PHL/PHX nonstop service, but AA still has daily nonstop service to its CLT/PHL hubs from CVG and seasonal daily nonstop service to PHX from CVG.

CVG can likely support nonstop service to Houston on more than just UA with UA currently down to 2x daily nonstops on CVG-IAH. DL re-adding CVG-IAH nonstop service, WN re-adding CVG-HOU nonstop service, or G4 adding CVG-HOU nonstop service are possibilities.

Who would be most likely to add or resume nonstop service to Houston from CVG: DL, WN, or G4?

What does any of this have to do with CVG-SFO?

DeltaRules wrote:

What does any of this have to do with CVG-SFO?

The discussion was about filling in the void left behind by the cuts and suspensions that DL has made at CVG (not only on CVG-SFO, but on other routes that have seen cuts or suspensions by DL out of CVG).

CVG-ORD/DFW/IAH/SFO/PHX/CUN/YYZ/PHL/CLT/RDU/BWI/BDL/STL/MCI will not be coming back on DL unless crew staffing issues are resolved, even if demand is getting stronger. DL is running significantly reduced schedules out of DTW/MSP and does not have the mainline capacity to backfill missing regional capacity. All the major airlines are running reduced schedules on many routes, even to major hubs.

Right now airlines are bridging the gap in capacity by raising prices. Just look at CVG-SEA prices right now. No carriers are going to rush in to fill capacity, there simply is not the staffing capacity to operate 2019 levels of service, even if the demand is there. Once things settle back down, DL will likely attempt to re-add as many of these routes as possible. Without CRJ-200s, at least some routes will be difficult to bring back (i.e. YYZ/MCI/STL/BWI/PHL/CLT). Many have decent Y demand, but were historically difficult to fill in C+/F.

a320flyer wrote:

CVG-ORD/DFW/IAH/SFO/PHX/CUN/YYZ/PHL/CLT/RDU/BWI/BDL/STL/MCI will not be coming back on DL unless crew staffing issues are resolved, even if demand is getting stronger. DL is running significantly reduced schedules out of DTW/MSP and does not have the mainline capacity to backfill missing regional capacity. All the major airlines are running reduced schedules on many routes, even to major hubs.

Right now airlines are bridging the gap in capacity by raising prices. Just look at CVG-SEA prices right now. No carriers are going to rush in to fill capacity, there simply is not the staffing capacity to operate 2019 levels of service, even if the demand is there. Once things settle back down, DL will likely attempt to re-add as many of these routes as possible. Without CRJ-200s, at least some routes will be difficult to bring back (i.e. YYZ/MCI/STL/BWI/PHL/CLT). Many have decent Y demand, but were historically difficult to fill in C+/F.

Most of the nonstop routes out of CVG that were dropped by DL in the last 2 years are ones that either (a) still have nonstop service out of CVG on other airlines or (b) could be picked up by other airlines.

CVG can probably support WN nonstop service to STL on a 143-seat 737-700 with the connecting opportunities that would be available through STL on WN along with the significant FF base that WN has in the STL market.

WN had average O&D PDEW's of less than 26 passengers/day and average load factors of over 75% on STL-TUL/ICT in Q4 2021, and WN can make CVG-STL nonstop service work if WN can get enough connecting traffic onto CVG-STL flights.

DL can probably make 1x daily nonstop work to MCI from CVG on a CRJ-900 regional jet if DL can get CVG-MCI O&D demand back to pre-pandemic levels as the CVG-MCI PDEW was 69 passengers/day in 2019. WN would probably need more O&D than DL would to make CVG-MCI nonstop service work with there being very few connecting opportunities remaining at MCI on WN with the significant cuts that WN has made at MCI due to the COVID-19 pandemic (unlike other adds such as CVG-ATL/DAL/LAS/STL where WN would have significantly more connecting opportunities).

BWI might possibly be able to support the return of DL nonstop service out of CVG on CRJ-700 or CRJ-900 regional jets as DL had 3x daily nonstops to BWI from CVG 4 years ago, even though DL has less of a need to resume CVG-BWI nonstop service with DL still serving DCA nonstop from CVG and WN still serving BWI nonstop from CVG.

CVG can also likely support frequency increases and upgauging on AA CVG-ORD nonstop service with AA currently operating only 3x daily nonstops to ORD from CVG (one of which is currently operated on a 50-seat ERJ-145 regional jet). AA also had more nonstop service to ORD from CVG prior to the COVID-19 pandemic.

The possibilities of WN adding CVG-DAL nonstop service and UA re-adding CVG-SFO nonstop service were also previously discussed in the Rest of Ohio Aviation Thread.

G4 adding CVG-HOU/OAK nonstop service are possibilities to fill in the void left behind by the cuts that other airlines have made on CVG-IAH/HOU/SFO, and G4 would also be willing to operate CVG-HOU/OAK nonstop service on a less-than-daily basis.

a320flyer wrote:

CVG-ORD/DFW/IAH/SFO/PHX/CUN/YYZ/PHL/CLT/RDU/BWI/BDL/STL/MCI will not be coming back on DL unless crew staffing issues are resolved, even if demand is getting stronger. DL is running significantly reduced schedules out of DTW/MSP and does not have the mainline capacity to backfill missing regional capacity. All the major airlines are running reduced schedules on many routes, even to major hubs.

No carriers are going to rush in to fill capacity, there simply is not the staffing capacity to operate 2019 levels of service, even if the demand is there.

There is already a discussion over in the Delta Network Thread regarding the cuts that DL is making due to the staffing shortages that DL is currently facing, and that discussion can be found at viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1468453&start=750#p23319155.

jplatts wrote:

a320flyer wrote:

CVG-ORD/DFW/IAH/SFO/PHX/CUN/YYZ/PHL/CLT/RDU/BWI/BDL/STL/MCI will not be coming back on DL unless crew staffing issues are resolved, even if demand is getting stronger. DL is running significantly reduced schedules out of DTW/MSP and does not have the mainline capacity to backfill missing regional capacity. All the major airlines are running reduced schedules on many routes, even to major hubs.

Right now airlines are bridging the gap in capacity by raising prices. Just look at CVG-SEA prices right now. No carriers are going to rush in to fill capacity, there simply is not the staffing capacity to operate 2019 levels of service, even if the demand is there. Once things settle back down, DL will likely attempt to re-add as many of these routes as possible. Without CRJ-200s, at least some routes will be difficult to bring back (i.e. YYZ/MCI/STL/BWI/PHL/CLT). Many have decent Y demand, but were historically difficult to fill in C+/F.

Most of the nonstop routes out of CVG that were dropped by DL in the last 2 years are ones that either (a) still have nonstop service out of CVG on other airlines or (b) could be picked up by other airlines.

CVG can probably support WN nonstop service to STL on a 143-seat 737-700 with the connecting opportunities that would be available through STL on WN along with the significant FF base that WN has in the STL market.

WN had average O&D PDEW's of less than 26 passengers/day and average load factors of over 75% on STL-TUL/ICT in Q4 2021, and WN can make CVG-STL nonstop service work if WN can get enough connecting traffic onto CVG-STL flights.

DL can probably make 1x daily nonstop work to MCI from CVG on a CRJ-900 regional jet if DL can get CVG-MCI O&D demand back to pre-pandemic levels as the CVG-MCI PDEW was 69 passengers/day in 2019. WN would probably need more O&D than DL would to make CVG-MCI nonstop service work with there being very few connecting opportunities remaining at MCI on WN with the significant cuts that WN has made at MCI due to the COVID-19 pandemic (unlike other adds such as CVG-ATL/DAL/LAS/STL where WN would have significantly more connecting opportunities).

BWI might possibly be able to support the return of DL nonstop service out of CVG on CRJ-700 or CRJ-900 regional jets as DL had 3x daily nonstops to BWI from CVG 4 years ago, even though DL has less of a need to resume CVG-BWI nonstop service with DL still serving DCA nonstop from CVG and WN still serving BWI nonstop from CVG.

CVG can also likely support frequency increases and upgauging on AA CVG-ORD nonstop service with AA currently operating only 3x daily nonstops to ORD from CVG (one of which is currently operated on a 50-seat ERJ-145 regional jet). AA also had more nonstop service to ORD from CVG prior to the COVID-19 pandemic.

The possibilities of WN adding CVG-DAL nonstop service and UA re-adding CVG-SFO nonstop service were also previously discussed in the Rest of Ohio Aviation Thread.

G4 adding CVG-HOU/OAK nonstop service are possibilities to fill in the void left behind by the cuts that other airlines have made on CVG-IAH/HOU/SFO, and G4 would also be willing to operate CVG-HOU/OAK nonstop service on a less-than-daily basis.

Making a route work is so much more than PDEW however. The revenue generated by those flights compared to what they cost to operate, the availability of crews and aircraft, even slots in those airports where it applies all contribute to whether or not a route can be flown and by whom. There are many routes that have more than 100 passengers a day that remain unserved by airlines. The reverse is also true, airlines can drive demand for city pairs that maybe do not look impressive but can be developed into something because of pricing or tourist attractions etc. Even more important is the consideration of the entire network and the use of the finite resources of aircraft and crew. Maybe there are xxx number on xxx-xxx route which will fill an A320 but on some other pair there is a corporate contract that makes it much more valuable even those its less passengers per day. All in all, its a very complex equation made only more so by staffing, fuel prices, alliances and joint ventures and more. I remember when WN would routinely suspend FLL even though it was one of the highest LFs in the system, despite that it was not enough to keep the route around all the time.

DL is sending a 757 (The spirit of freedom livery!) to CMH tomorrow morning.

AA.com is showing CMH-JFK increases to 4 daily on Nov 4. CMH-CUN Saturday flights resume Nov 5

Jgsushi wrote:

DL is sending a 757 (The spirit of freedom livery!) to CMH tomorrow morning.

Very cool- upgauging to counter staffing shortages, I wonder?

If they'd be so kind as to do that again next Saturday, I'd be much obliged.

AA is showing 3x/day on CVG-JFK on Nov 4 as well.

Also, morning frequency of DL CVG-SEA is going to an A220. Might help with reliability, though definitely reduces thee number of seats on a very popular route right now.

Just tried NK’s CMH-LAX service for the first time. Both outbound and inbound service were on the wifi-equipped 320neo. My main takeaway is that if one is willing to fork over some cash (bags, big seats, snacks, and internet) and the weather cooperates, Spirit can be quite pleasant contrary to popular belief. It’s no surprise on a holiday weekend that the flights were packed (to the point of asking for volunteers to switch) each way. However, with only 8 “premium” seats on each aircraft, a network carrier is still needed on the route and it will be a disappointment if next summer arrives without additional nonstop service.

CMHtraveler wrote:

Just tried NK’s CMH-LAX service for the first time. Both outbound and inbound service were on the wifi-equipped 320neo. My main takeaway is that if one is willing to fork over some cash (bags, big seats, snacks, and internet) and the weather cooperates, Spirit can be quite pleasant contrary to popular belief. It’s no surprise on a holiday weekend that the flights were packed (to the point of asking for volunteers to switch) each way. However, with only 8 “premium” seats on each aircraft, a network carrier is still needed on the route and it will be a disappointment if next summer arrives without additional nonstop service.

WN adding CMH-LAX nonstop service might be a possibility once WN has more staff as WN has previously operated nonstop service to LAX from a few markets that didn't have nonstop service to LAX on AA, DL, or UA such as MKE and PIT (at least back when WN was operating LAX-MKE/PIT nonstop service).

WN would also be offering connections to SFO/OAK/SJC through LAX from CMH if it adds CMH-LAX nonstop service.

There are also fewer connecting options to LAX from CMH on WN with WN having fewer nonstop flights to LAX from MDW/DAL/DEN/HOU/BNA/STL than it did prior to the COVID-19 pandemic.

Anyone know why UPS 2135 SYR-SDF is diverting to LCK?: https://www.flightradar24.com/UPS2135/2c134494

There are scheduled to be five mainline UA RONs tonight at CMH:
5:45 ORD 738
6:10 IAD 319
7:02 IAH 319
7:44 SFO 738
7:50 DEN 738

Where are they going to park all these, I wonder? I know B29 is a swing gate with two parking lines.

DeltaRules wrote:

There are scheduled to be five mainline UA RONs tonight at CMH:
5:45 ORD 738
6:10 IAD 319
7:02 IAH 319
7:44 SFO 738
7:50 DEN 738

Where are they going to park all these, I wonder? I know B29 is a swing gate with two parking lines.

The SFO outbound flight is from the inbound SFO redeye flight. UA1649 is scheduled to arrive into CMH at 6:47am. The ORD and IAD gates will be vacant by then.

CMHARJ wrote:

DeltaRules wrote:

There are scheduled to be five mainline UA RONs tonight at CMH:
5:45 ORD 738
6:10 IAD 319
7:02 IAH 319
7:44 SFO 738
7:50 DEN 738

Where are they going to park all these, I wonder? I know B29 is a swing gate with two parking lines.

The SFO outbound flight is from the inbound SFO redeye flight. UA1649 is scheduled to arrive into CMH at 6:47am. The ORD and IAD gates will be vacant by then.

I was wondering the same thing. Even with the SFO red-eye, they still have to park 4 mainliners at their 3 leased gates plus United Express RONs. My guess is B29 will house 2 with the other 2 going on B31 and B32. But then that leaves only 34, as 32A wouldn't be able to park a plane there and B35 generally has 2 NK jets in the morning. They could also hardstand one of the mainliners or take all the Republic RONs to the hangar. Should be interesting to see how it plays out.

flyCMH wrote:

CMHARJ wrote:

DeltaRules wrote:

There are scheduled to be five mainline UA RONs tonight at CMH:
5:45 ORD 738
6:10 IAD 319
7:02 IAH 319
7:44 SFO 738
7:50 DEN 738

Where are they going to park all these, I wonder? I know B29 is a swing gate with two parking lines.

The SFO outbound flight is from the inbound SFO redeye flight. UA1649 is scheduled to arrive into CMH at 6:47am. The ORD and IAD gates will be vacant by then.

I was wondering the same thing. Even with the SFO red-eye, they still have to park 4 mainliners at their 3 leased gates plus United Express RONs. My guess is B29 will house 2 with the other 2 going on B31 and B32. But then that leaves only 34, as 32A wouldn't be able to park a plane there and B35 generally has 2 NK jets in the morning. They could also hardstand one of the mainliners or take all the Republic RONs to the hangar. Should be interesting to see how it plays out.

Didn’t this happen before and UA ended up using B36? It can handle 2 Aircraft and one spot is normally a WN RON. Maybe it could go there? (Im not up to date on just how many NK aircraft will be there on a Saturday morning)

flyCMH wrote:

CMHARJ wrote:

DeltaRules wrote:

There are scheduled to be five mainline UA RONs tonight at CMH:
5:45 ORD 738
6:10 IAD 319
7:02 IAH 319
7:44 SFO 738
7:50 DEN 738

Where are they going to park all these, I wonder? I know B29 is a swing gate with two parking lines.

The SFO outbound flight is from the inbound SFO redeye flight. UA1649 is scheduled to arrive into CMH at 6:47am. The ORD and IAD gates will be vacant by then.

I was wondering the same thing. Even with the SFO red-eye, they still have to park 4 mainliners at their 3 leased gates plus United Express RONs. My guess is B29 will house 2 with the other 2 going on B31 and B32. But then that leaves only 34, as 32A wouldn't be able to park a plane there and B35 generally has 2 NK jets in the morning. They could also hardstand one of the mainliners or take all the Republic RONs to the hangar. Should be interesting to see how it plays out.

Didn’t this happen before and UA ended up using B36? It can handle 2 Aircraft and one spot is normally a WN RON. Maybe it could go there? (Im not up to date on just how many NK aircraft will be there on a Saturday morning)

brooklynchris13 wrote:

flyCMH wrote:

CMHARJ wrote:

The SFO outbound flight is from the inbound SFO redeye flight. UA1649 is scheduled to arrive into CMH at 6:47am. The ORD and IAD gates will be vacant by then.

I was wondering the same thing. Even with the SFO red-eye, they still have to park 4 mainliners at their 3 leased gates plus United Express RONs. My guess is B29 will house 2 with the other 2 going on B31 and B32. But then that leaves only 34, as 32A wouldn't be able to park a plane there and B35 generally has 2 NK jets in the morning. They could also hardstand one of the mainliners or take all the Republic RONs to the hangar. Should be interesting to see how it plays out.

Didn’t this happen before and UA ended up using B36? It can handle 2 Aircraft and one spot is normally a WN RON. Maybe it could go there? (Im not up to date on just how many NK aircraft will be there on a Saturday morning)

And that's exactly what'll happen. Per FlightAware:
B29- ORD 738 and IAH 319
B31- IAD 319 (cancelled) and an EWR-bound E175
B32- an EWR-bound E175 and DEN 738
B34- an ORD-bound E175
B36- SFO 738

Such a great sign that CMH-SFO is back. I’m hoping UA eventually deems the route worthy of better departure/arrival times. It took about a year for NK on CMH-LAX but I think they finally got it right; eastbound departure at a manageable 10:30ish AM from the west coast, a 5:30ish PM turn at CMH, and a 6:30ish PM westbound departure which takes advantage of the time change and arrives at a reasonable evening hour at LAX. I hope UA eventually goes with something similar. My wife is traveling to the Bay Area for work this summer. She took one look at the UA times and booked a connecting flight on WN.

CMHtraveler wrote:

Such a great sign that CMH-SFO is back. I’m hoping UA eventually deems the route worthy of better departure/arrival times. It took about a year for NK on CMH-LAX but I think they finally got it right; eastbound departure at a manageable 10:30ish AM from the west coast, a 5:30ish PM turn at CMH, and a 6:30ish PM westbound departure which takes advantage of the time change and arrives at a reasonable evening hour at LAX. I hope UA eventually goes with something similar. My wife is traveling to the Bay Area for work this summer. She took one look at the UA times and booked a connecting flight on WN.

Agreed 100%! A quick look at the flights by day and destination page on the CRAA website, shows peak days at CMH are back to around 125 departures or so. I think in 2019 the peak was up to about 160, so looking at what is "missing"... (best guess based on my spotty memory of where we were)
(2) ATL flights on WN
(2) CLT flights on AA (but we have upguaged to some mainline)
(1-2) DFW flights on AA (but big upguage in A/C)
(2) IAH flights on UA (there has been an upguage to some on mainline)
(2+) flights on DL and AA to LAX
(3-5) ORD flights on AA
(2-3) PHL flights on AA
(2-3) RDU flights on DL
(1) SEA flight on AS (the scheduled expansion)
(1) SLC flight on DL
(1-2) YYZ flights on AC
so that totals about 25 flights, which would take us back to the 150 ish mark-- or really close in seats from 2019 due to upguages in A/C size.

What do we think will come back of this list? Or is it likely with staffing shortages that we see more mainline replacing even the larger regionals? (flights like MIA which is supposed to go to a 319 morning departure in the fall being an example)

brooklynchris13 wrote:

Agreed 100%! A quick look at the flights by day and destination page on the CRAA website, shows peak days at CMH are back to around 125 departures or so. I think in 2019 the peak was up to about 160, so looking at what is "missing"... (best guess based on my spotty memory of where we were)

What do we think will come back of this list? Or is it likely with staffing shortages that we see more mainline replacing even the larger regionals? (flights like MIA which is supposed to go to a 319 morning departure in the fall being an example)

In addition to the list above, WN was originally planning on operating CMH-BOS nonstop service in Summer 2020, but completely dropped CMH-BOS nonstop service due to the COVID-19 pandemic.

Here were the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors on WN CMH-BOS from January 2018 through February 2020, broken down by month:
WN BOS-CMH in 1/2018 - 4025 passengers, 9173 seats, 43.88% load factor
WN BOS-CMH in 2/2018 - 3451 passengers, 7282 seats, 47.39% load factor
WN BOS-CMH in 3/2018 - 4970 passengers, 7329 seats, 67.81% load factor
WN BOS-CMH in 4/2018 - 8698 passengers, 12744 seats, 68.25% load factor
WN BOS-CMH in 5/2018 - 10029 passengers, 15047 seats, 66.65% load factor
WN BOS-CMH in 6/2018 - 11273 passengers, 15444 seats, 72.99% load factor
WN BOS-CMH in 7/2018 - 12317 passengers, 15444 seats, 79.75% load factor
WN BOS-CMH in 8/2018 - 12829 passengers, 16334 seats, 78.54% load factor
WN BOS-CMH in 9/2018 - 7610 passengers, 10153 seats, 74.95% load factor
WN BOS-CMH in 10/2018 - 12572 passengers, 15986 seats, 78.64% load factor
WN BOS-CMH in 11/2018 - 9321 passengers, 14063 seats, 66.28% load factor
WN BOS-CMH in 12/2018 - 7507 passengers, 10917 seats, 68.76% load factor
WN BOS-CMH in 1/2019 - 3805 passengers, 8349 seats, 45.57% load factor
WN BOS-CMH in 2/2019 - 4255 passengers, 7826 seats, 54.37% load factor
WN BOS-CMH in 3/2019 - 4948 passengers, 7056 seats, 70.12% load factor
WN BOS-CMH in 4/2019 - 8537 passengers, 14372 seats, 59.40% load factor
WN BOS-CMH in 5/2019 - 10835 passengers, 16869 seats, 64.23% load factor
WN BOS-CMH in 6/2019 - 9388 passengers, 15132 seats, 62.04% load factor
WN BOS-CMH in 7/2019 - 10762 passengers, 15322 seats, 70.24% load factor
WN BOS-CMH in 8/2019 - 12261 passengers, 16086 seats, 76.22% load factor
WN BOS-CMH in 9/2019 - 6922 passengers, 9538 seats, 72.57% load factor
WN BOS-CMH in 10/2019 - 11801 passengers, 16594 seats, 71.12% load factor
WN BOS-CMH in 11/2019 - 5815 passengers, 11369 seats, 51.15% load factor
WN BOS-CMH in 12/2019 - 6813 passengers, 11512 seats, 59.18% load factor
WN BOS-CMH in 1/2020 - 3892 passengers, 7632 seats, 51.00% load factor
WN BOS-CMH in 2/2020 - 4007 passengers, 6360 seats, 63.00% load factor

I had been wondering if recent NK summer cuts at CMH were staffing or demand related, and we appear to have our answer in the latest NK schedule extension that runs through December. FLL, LAS, LAX, MCO, and TPA are all back to 1x daily (MCO more than daily) from November through the beginning of 2023.

MX is starting CAK-LAS on 10/6.

As for CMH transcon, I think we'll eventually get a legacy back on CMH-LAX. It didn't dawn on me until now, but the travel service my company uses excludes four airlines (IIRC, B6, NK, F9, G4) from its search engine, which may be indicative of other businesses as well.

DeltaRules wrote:

MX is starting CAK-LAS on 10/6.

As for CMH transcon, I think we'll eventually get a legacy back on CMH-LAX. It didn't dawn on me until now, but the travel service my company uses excludes four airlines (IIRC, B6, NK, F9, G4) from its search engine, which may be indicative of other businesses as well.

I hope you are right. Is your travel service Concur? We have the same exclusions. Only DL, UA, AA, and WN appear. (As well as Amtrak when appropriate).

brooklynchris13 wrote:

DeltaRules wrote:

MX is starting CAK-LAS on 10/6.

As for CMH transcon, I think we'll eventually get a legacy back on CMH-LAX. It didn't dawn on me until now, but the travel service my company uses excludes four airlines (IIRC, B6, NK, F9, G4) from its search engine, which may be indicative of other businesses as well.

I hope you are right. Is your travel service Concur? We have the same exclusions. Only DL, UA, AA, and WN appear. (As well as Amtrak when appropriate).

Yeah, it's Concur; those were the four airlines listed as the blacklisted ones "due to their reputation" according to the orientation I sat through pre-COVID. That in itself will draw business travel away from the NK nonstop.

DeltaRules wrote:

brooklynchris13 wrote:

DeltaRules wrote:

MX is starting CAK-LAS on 10/6.

As for CMH transcon, I think we'll eventually get a legacy back on CMH-LAX. It didn't dawn on me until now, but the travel service my company uses excludes four airlines (IIRC, B6, NK, F9, G4) from its search engine, which may be indicative of other businesses as well.

I hope you are right. Is your travel service Concur? We have the same exclusions. Only DL, UA, AA, and WN appear. (As well as Amtrak when appropriate).

Yeah, it's Concur; those were the four airlines listed as the blacklisted ones "due to their reputation" according to the orientation I sat through pre-COVID. That in itself will draw business travel away from the NK nonstop.

I have used Concur at my prior job and current one and have these options as well. I find it takes a lot of researching to get the right flights. I will often get suggested two stop flights both ways with crazy routing which can be annoying. I'd like to see Breeze added to the mix since it is targeting a lot of business oriented airports like BDL.

A mess today at CMH due to a necessary COVID-19 decontamination in the tower:

https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/202 ... 574345001/

I count at least 10 diversions on flightaware as a result.

atbPy wrote:

DeltaRules wrote:

brooklynchris13 wrote:

I hope you are right. Is your travel service Concur? We have the same exclusions. Only DL, UA, AA, and WN appear. (As well as Amtrak when appropriate).

Yeah, it's Concur; those were the four airlines listed as the blacklisted ones "due to their reputation" according to the orientation I sat through pre-COVID. That in itself will draw business travel away from the NK nonstop.

I have used Concur at my prior job and current one and have these options as well. I find it takes a lot of researching to get the right flights. I will often get suggested two stop flights both ways with crazy routing which can be annoying. I'd like to see Breeze added to the mix since it is targeting a lot of business oriented airports like BDL.

The “art” of getting the itinerary and preferred airline can be quite the challenge. I would be hesitant about using Breeze though because of the less than daily service between city pairs. Thats what makes AA, DL, UA, and WN so useful for business travel- there are always multiple options to get there and multiple options to get back if something changes. That flexibility is probably the most important thing for most business travelers.