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SQ22
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Wizz Air News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Fri Dec 31, 2021 4:17 pm

Welcome to the Wizz Air News and Discussion Thread 2022. Please continue to post your news and your discussion here.

Link to previous thread:

Wizz Air News and Discussion Thread - 2021
 
Blerg
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Re: Wizz Air News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Mon Jan 03, 2022 12:26 pm

According to the booking system, Wizz Air has removed three routes from North Macedonia.

SKP-BCN
SKP-LCA
OHD-MXP
 
330lover
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Wizzair (W6) at Kecskemet Air Base

Wed Jan 12, 2022 12:17 pm

Hi all,
just saw that there was a Wizzair aircraft doing some touch-and-go at Kecskemet Air Base.
Just curious why, is it common that commercial airlines do this kind of things at military airports?
Thanks

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airc ... i#2a7831fc
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airc ... i#2a785917
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airc ... i#2a786f7d
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Wizzair (W6) at Kecskemet Air Base

Wed Jan 12, 2022 12:19 pm

Probably crew training. Touch&go's are usually done at remote airport to not waste prescious slots at primary airports.
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Wizzair (W6) at Kecskemet Air Base

Wed Jan 12, 2022 12:26 pm

Touch & go would not happen at BUD. However, why a military airbase instead of a quiet civilian airport like Balaton or Gyor ?
 
330lover
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Re: Wizzair (W6) at Kecskemet Air Base

Wed Jan 12, 2022 12:33 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
Probably crew training. Touch&go's are usually done at remote airport to not waste prescious slots at primary airports.


Makes sense off course, but never saw it done at military bases.
 
seansasLCY
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Re: Wizzair (W6) at Kecskemet Air Base

Wed Jan 12, 2022 1:51 pm

davidjohnson6 wrote:
Touch & go would not happen at BUD. However, why a military airbase instead of a quiet civilian airport like Balaton or Gyor ?


Wizz seems to have some sort of good connections with Hungarian Gov/Military. The A330Fs that the Hungarian Gov got were operated by Wizz (not sure if they still are?).
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Wizzair (W6) at Kecskemet Air Base

Wed Jan 12, 2022 2:23 pm

Air France has good connections with the French military. Doesn't mean they can put trainee FOs in A220s to fly in/out of French air force bases
I don't know of many air forces in the world that happily open up a base with fighter jets stationed there unless there is a good reason. Hungary has plenty of quiet airports where A320 training flights can take place
 
holczakker
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Re: Wizzair (W6) at Kecskemet Air Base

Wed Jan 12, 2022 4:00 pm

Free of charge. The pilot base training is done at Papa or Kecskemet (if Papa is unavailable), training for the local military ATC as well (as the government is pushing the civilian use of Kecskemet, which is bollocks). If the military airports are not available, Sarmellek, Debrecen or Kosice is used. Gyor has a narrow (30m) and shortish runway which is not OK for base training.
 
seansasLCY
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Re: Wizzair (W6) at Kecskemet Air Base

Wed Jan 12, 2022 4:19 pm

davidjohnson6 wrote:
Air France has good connections with the French military. Doesn't mean they can put trainee FOs in A220s to fly in/out of French air force bases
I don't know of many air forces in the world that happily open up a base with fighter jets stationed there unless there is a good reason. Hungary has plenty of quiet airports where A320 training flights can take place


Bit of a difference between how Hungary operates… Rules seem a bit more flexible especially if you get along with Mr Orban.
 
aviatorcraig
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Re: Wizzair (W6) at Kecskemet Air Base

Wed Jan 12, 2022 4:32 pm

Back in the day, British Airways used RAF Brize Norton quite often for concorde crew training... residents around military bases don't complain about the noise so much!
 
330lover
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Re: Wizzair (W6) at Kecskemet Air Base

Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:08 pm

holczakker wrote:
Free of charge. The pilot base training is done at Papa or Kecskemet (if Papa is unavailable), training for the local military ATC as well (as the government is pushing the civilian use of Kecskemet, which is bollocks). If the military airports are not available, Sarmellek, Debrecen or Kosice is used. Gyor has a narrow (30m) and shortish runway which is not OK for base training.


Thanks for that info
 
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Alsatian
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Re: Wizz Air News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:08 pm

Some rumours about Wizz Air plans to move its Hahn operations to Saarbrücken. About 110km between the two airports and 1h40 drive.
 
TexasAirCorp
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Re: Wizz Air News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:25 pm

Alsatian wrote:
Some rumours about Wizz Air plans to move its Hahn operations to Saarbrücken. About 110km between the two airports and 1h40 drive.

Really? Not sure 'Frankfurt/Saarbrücken' will work, a two-hour drive is a bit of a stretch.
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Wizz Air News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Wed Jan 26, 2022 3:09 pm

Do Wizz have to go to Saarbrucken ? Dortmund seems like a better idea
As one (well known and successful) airline exec said... "You can make a pizza so cheap, nobody will eat it"
 
holczakker
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Re: Wizz Air News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Wed Jan 26, 2022 5:55 pm

Wizz just closed its Dortmund base recently (3 months ago). It's A-320 only (A-321s can't be used for runway limitations) and the night curfew does not help either. Besides it is 170 km from Hahn (same distance from Frankfurt). Saarbrücken is "only" approx 140 km from Frankfurt but it can serve the area of Luxembourg and Strasbourg as well.
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Wizz Air News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:01 pm

Dortmund may be far from Hahn... but being 170 km from farmland is unlikely to be a bad thing for an airline focussed on people rather than cargo. Perhaps Karlsruhe would be a better idea... still close to Strasbourg. With just 650,000 people in the whole country, Wizz shouldn't worry too much about not serving Luxembourg
 
EIBPI
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Re: Wizz Air News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Wed Jan 26, 2022 7:14 pm

Alsatian wrote:
Some rumours about Wizz Air plans to move its Hahn operations to Saarbrücken. About 110km between the two airports and 1h40 drive.


Where is that reported? Wizz Air had been quietly ramping up HHN operations in the past months. Ryanair will shortly do the same when they leave FRA.
 
myki
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Re: Wizz Air News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Fri Jan 28, 2022 3:52 am

Looks like AUH has lost a few Wizz destinations - I will presume these were operated by 5W and not W6.

KIV, LCA, ODS, RHO, SKG

Also LXR has been removed as a destination but I believe this had never started.
 
krizzzy
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Re: Wizz Air News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Fri Jan 28, 2022 4:38 pm

myki wrote:
Looks like AUH has lost a few Wizz destinations - I will presume these were operated by 5W and not W6.

KIV, LCA, ODS, RHO, SKG

Also LXR has been removed as a destination but I believe this had never started.


Hi, I just checked on flightconnections and this does not seem to be accurate. All destinations still have flights for months still. Also, Kiev is KBP.
Hope that helped.
 
myki
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Re: Wizz Air News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Sat Jan 29, 2022 8:33 pm

krizzzy wrote:
myki wrote:
Looks like AUH has lost a few Wizz destinations - I will presume these were operated by 5W and not W6.

KIV, LCA, ODS, RHO, SKG

Also LXR has been removed as a destination but I believe this had never started.


Hi, I just checked on flightconnections and this does not seem to be accurate. All destinations still have flights for months still. Also, Kiev is KBP.
Hope that helped.

Nope, they have gone from the list for departing AUH on wizzair.com ... and yes, Kiev (KBP) is still available, however Chisinau (KIV) is not :D
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Wizz Air News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Sun Jan 30, 2022 12:38 pm

krizzzy wrote:
myki wrote:
Looks like AUH has lost a few Wizz destinations - I will presume these were operated by 5W and not W6.

KIV, LCA, ODS, RHO, SKG

Also LXR has been removed as a destination but I believe this had never started.


Hi, I just checked on flightconnections and this does not seem to be accurate. All destinations still have flights for months still. Also, Kiev is KBP.
Hope that helped.


The Greek islands are likely to be summer seasonal destinations, not much to do there in the winter.

As for Kiev, is it possible that they're shifting this flight over from KBP to IEV? Wizzair has a big base in IEV while the AUH flight is the only one using KBP for Kiev. What could make more sense than to pull that one flight out of KBP and operate it out of IEV instead?
 
myki
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Re: Wizz Air News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Tue Feb 01, 2022 5:53 am

PatrickZ80 wrote:
krizzzy wrote:
myki wrote:
Looks like AUH has lost a few Wizz destinations - I will presume these were operated by 5W and not W6.

KIV, LCA, ODS, RHO, SKG

Also LXR has been removed as a destination but I believe this had never started.


Hi, I just checked on flightconnections and this does not seem to be accurate. All destinations still have flights for months still. Also, Kiev is KBP.
Hope that helped.


The Greek islands are likely to be summer seasonal destinations, not much to do there in the winter.

As for Kiev, is it possible that they're shifting this flight over from KBP to IEV? Wizzair has a big base in IEV while the AUH flight is the only one using KBP for Kiev. What could make more sense than to pull that one flight out of KBP and operate it out of IEV instead?

Please note that it is Chisinau (KIV) that is being dropped, not Kiev (KBP). Easy to confuse the two!
 
NeperQiell
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Re: Wizz Air News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Fri Feb 04, 2022 4:05 pm

Wizz Air launches operations to Kukës Airport (KFZ) in Albania. From June they will offer flights to 4 destinations including BSL, FKB, FMM and VIE. Additionally they will add 2 more destinations from their TIA base which are FDH and RMI. All these flights will initially be operated 2x weekly.
 
xwb777
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Re: Wizz Air News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Wed Feb 09, 2022 1:04 pm

Wizz Air Abu Dhabi to launch flights to Amman and Aqaba in Jordan.

Source: Wizz Air LinkedIn Account
 
holczakker
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Re: Wizz Air News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Wed Feb 09, 2022 4:36 pm

It seems that Wizz Air abandoned HAJ (Hannover) completely. The flights "suspended" for the winter (to Kyiv, Skopje, Budapest and Belgrade) will not return in 2022 and the airport was removed from the route map of the airline.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Wizz Air News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Wed Mar 02, 2022 8:21 am

Wizzair has announced that they're handing out free tickets to Ukrainian refugees to continue their journey from Ukraine's neighboring countries.

https://nieuws.nl/economie/20220302/wiz ... s-tickets/
 
xwb777
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Re: Wizz Air News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Wed Mar 09, 2022 1:18 pm

Wizz Air Abu Dhabi announces flights to Mattala, Sri Lanka.

Source: Wizz Air Linkedin Page
 
holczakker
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Re: Wizz Air News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Wed Mar 09, 2022 2:23 pm

It's an interesting airport which was built on chinese money in the middle of nowhere (as a pet project of the president who is from the area). It's sporting a 3500x60m runway, a 35m ATC tower, a fuel hydrant system, a terminal (with 2 jetways) able to handle 1 million passengers/year and a cargo facility with a capacity of 50.000 tons/year.
Yet (as the population of the largest town in the area is under 20k with very limited tourism) on most days there are no flights at all. The number of passengers in 2020 was 25.767 (increased significantly from less than 2.000 in 2019 because this airport was used for covid repatriation flights). Forbes ran a story about it in 2016 calling it the "World"s emptiest international airport".
https://www.forbes.com/sites/wadeshepard/2016/05/28/the-story-behind-the-worlds-emptiest-international-airport-sri-lankas-mattala-rajapaksa/?sh=66bb6dbe7cea
No question who pays the bill here.
 
atal17
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Re: Wizz Air News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Wed Mar 09, 2022 2:33 pm

xwb777 wrote:
Wizz Air Abu Dhabi announces flights to Mattala, Sri Lanka.

Source: Wizz Air Linkedin Page


One wonders why Wizz Air is (atleast so far) mum on any Indian expansion.

Since India will revert to the bilaterals from end of March - they should have some opportunities coming, won’t they?
 
myki
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Re: Wizz Air News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Thu Mar 10, 2022 9:16 pm

atal17 wrote:
Since India will revert to the bilaterals from end of March - they should have some opportunities coming, won’t they?

I'd imagine they could easily grab the point-to-point market of the smaller cities not connected with AUH (e.g. PNQ, LKO, JAI).
 
TIA
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Re: Wizz Air News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Sat Apr 02, 2022 8:41 am

Wizzair is basing a ninth aircraft (A321ceo) in TIA this summer and starting LYS, WAW and NUE, all 2 weekly.

According to an interview by W6 rep in the local media, they want to grow to 19 aircraft by 2025.

Does anyone have the ranking of the largest Wizzair bases?

https://wizzair.com/en-gb/information-a ... -to-tirana
 
MCTSET
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Re: Wizz Air News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Sat Apr 02, 2022 10:28 am

Bucharest is the largest growing to 12 aircraft in a few months.
 
jmmadrid
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Re: Wizz Air News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Sat Apr 02, 2022 10:42 am

TIA wrote:
Wizzair is basing a ninth aircraft (A321ceo) in TIA this summer and starting LYS, WAW and NUE, all 2 weekly.

According to an interview by W6 rep in the local media, they want to grow to 19 aircraft by 2025.


https://wizzair.com/en-gb/information-a ... -to-tirana


It's amazing that such a small city, in a small and almost irrelevant economy as the albanian, with very little inbound/outbound tourism could sustain profitably a 19 airplane base! Guess it's all about the diaspora...

Is there even room at TIA for 19 planes at the same time?
 
NeperQiell
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Re: Wizz Air News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Sat Apr 02, 2022 11:10 am

jmmadrid wrote:

such a small city, in a small and almost irrelevant economy as the albanian, with very little inbound/outbound tourism


Wow... continue please...
 
MalevTU134
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Re: Wizz Air News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Sat Apr 02, 2022 2:27 pm

NeperQiell wrote:
jmmadrid wrote:

such a small city, in a small and almost irrelevant economy as the albanian, with very little inbound/outbound tourism


Wow... continue please...

Why, is he incorrect in any way? On a European scale, it's an observation that is spot on. To have 19 aircraft based there,
each carrying 200 pax, seems overkill. Or do you have the numbers to show regarding the huge size of Tirana, or the big important economy of Albania, or the millions and millions of tourists visiting every year? Mind you, at 200 pax/aircraft, 3 roundtrips/day per aircraft, with 19 aircraft that is a capacity of almost 12,000 seats/day each way. Or if you want, over 4 million seats/year, per way. So, do you have the numbers for that? ...continue please...

I'll help you out: in 2019, there were 2.9 million foreign visitors to Albania for leisure purposes. However, most of them came from Kosovo, Macedonia, Montenegro and Greece, in that order, so they didn't fly in. That same year, according do its Wikipedia page, Tirana Nëne Tereza Airport has 3.3 million passengers in total (arriving, departing and transferring, in total). So, assuming every passenger arrived and departed (or the other way around), that's less than 1.7 million people actually travelling, or less than half the capacity WizzAir is throwing at the airport, only counting aircraft based there. Plus all other airlines operating there, of course....
 
NeperQiell
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Re: Wizz Air News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Sat Apr 02, 2022 4:06 pm

In that case i must go tell them to stop speaking such nonsense because an airliners.net expert concluded that it would impossible. Imagine if i told you back in 2020 that Wizz would have 9 aircraft based in TIA by 2022.
 
MalevTU134
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Re: Wizz Air News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Sat Apr 02, 2022 4:31 pm

NeperQiell wrote:
In that case i must go tell them to stop speaking such nonsense because an airliners.net expert concluded that it would impossible. Imagine if i told you back in 2020 that Wizz would have 9 aircraft based in TIA by 2022.

If this was in reply to my post, then I'm still awaiting your factual reply to it. And WizzAir are (in)famous for announcing new destinations, new bases and base increases that then don't materialize, so we shall see how much of this actually survives the news release stage.
 
BuildingMyBento
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Re: Wizz Air News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Sat Apr 02, 2022 7:20 pm

jmmadrid wrote:
TIA wrote:
Wizzair is basing a ninth aircraft (A321ceo) in TIA this summer and starting LYS, WAW and NUE, all 2 weekly.

According to an interview by W6 rep in the local media, they want to grow to 19 aircraft by 2025.


https://wizzair.com/en-gb/information-a ... -to-tirana


It's amazing that such a small city, in a small and almost irrelevant economy as the albanian, with very little inbound/outbound tourism could sustain profitably a 19 airplane base! Guess it's all about the diaspora...

Is there even room at TIA for 19 planes at the same time?


There are a lot of Albanian guest workers in Italy and Germany; Wizz Air seems like the right airline for the job.

Albania is a cool country, but Tirana isn't exactly a tourism mecca. The most popular places for foreign tourists are in the northern and southwestern areas, close to Montenegro and Greece, respectively; Tirana may be the transport hub, but it's not necessarily convenient for airline passengers going to the Riviera, or to Shkodra. Still, since it's by far the most important airport, options are limited.

Perhaps more Middle Eastern money could develop the Albanian Riviera, by first investing in an airport in the region.
 
Blerg
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Re: Wizz Air News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Sun Apr 03, 2022 6:11 am

MalevTU134 wrote:
NeperQiell wrote:
In that case i must go tell them to stop speaking such nonsense because an airliners.net expert concluded that it would impossible. Imagine if i told you back in 2020 that Wizz would have 9 aircraft based in TIA by 2022.

If this was in reply to my post, then I'm still awaiting your factual reply to it. And WizzAir are (in)famous for announcing new destinations, new bases and base increases that then don't materialize, so we shall see how much of this actually survives the news release stage.


From what I remember, when Wizz Air announced TIA they said it was because the airport had a new incentive scheme for new routes where they would even get money for marketing purposes. I guess that is still in place.

Also, don't forget that they might be using some of the 9 planes that are based in Tirana for W pattern flights. Albania is not a developed country so their costs are probably low making their operations over there quite lucrative.
 
Tunnelvision
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Re: Wizz Air News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Sun Apr 03, 2022 7:51 am

Hey does anyone know the reason Wizz has no spanish bases? Or if this is on the cards?

Tia
 
MalevTU134
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Re: Wizz Air News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Sun Apr 03, 2022 9:30 am

Tunnelvision wrote:
Hey does anyone know the reason Wizz has no spanish bases? Or if this is on the cards?

Tia

Probably because of the fierce competition in Spain, mainly from Ryanair, Vueling, but also all the charter operators. And everybody else and their mother (easyJet, Transavia, Norwegian, you name it) also fly between Spain and somewhere (usually Western or Northern Europe).
 
MalevTU134
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Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: Wizz Air News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Sun Apr 03, 2022 9:32 am

Blerg wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
NeperQiell wrote:
In that case i must go tell them to stop speaking such nonsense because an airliners.net expert concluded that it would impossible. Imagine if i told you back in 2020 that Wizz would have 9 aircraft based in TIA by 2022.

If this was in reply to my post, then I'm still awaiting your factual reply to it. And WizzAir are (in)famous for announcing new destinations, new bases and base increases that then don't materialize, so we shall see how much of this actually survives the news release stage.


From what I remember, when Wizz Air announced TIA they said it was because the airport had a new incentive scheme for new routes where they would even get money for marketing purposes. I guess that is still in place.

Also, don't forget that they might be using some of the 9 planes that are based in Tirana for W pattern flights. Albania is not a developed country so their costs are probably low making their operations over there quite lucrative.

Excellent points. Thanks!!
 
TIA
Posts: 473
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 3:42 am

Re: Wizz Air News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Sun Apr 03, 2022 4:27 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
NeperQiell wrote:
jmmadrid wrote:

such a small city, in a small and almost irrelevant economy as the albanian, with very little inbound/outbound tourism


Wow... continue please...

Why, is he incorrect in any way? On a European scale, it's an observation that is spot on. To have 19 aircraft based there,
each carrying 200 pax, seems overkill. Or do you have the numbers to show regarding the huge size of Tirana, or the big important economy of Albania, or the millions and millions of tourists visiting every year? Mind you, at 200 pax/aircraft, 3 roundtrips/day per aircraft, with 19 aircraft that is a capacity of almost 12,000 seats/day each way. Or if you want, over 4 million seats/year, per way. So, do you have the numbers for that? ...continue please...

I'll help you out: in 2019, there were 2.9 million foreign visitors to Albania for leisure purposes. However, most of them came from Kosovo, Macedonia, Montenegro and Greece, in that order, so they didn't fly in. That same year, according do its Wikipedia page, Tirana Nëne Tereza Airport has 3.3 million passengers in total (arriving, departing and transferring, in total). So, assuming every passenger arrived and departed (or the other way around), that's less than 1.7 million people actually travelling, or less than half the capacity WizzAir is throwing at the airport, only counting aircraft based there. Plus all other airlines operating there, of course....

Well, let me help you there. How many tourists were in Albania in 2017, what about 2018? Now, how does the growth look like? See where I'm going with this? The growth at TIA is not due to the diaspora. After all that doesn't grow steadily. I'm not saying that the new routes don't have any VFR on them, but they need more than just them to support them. Otherwise, how does WAW or AUH work?
Albania is the only country in Europe showing growth on the 2019 numbers. Now you can say it's all due to the diaspora, or you can stop letting your biases cloud your judgment and realise that tourism in Albania is skyrocketing. Part of that success story have no doubt been the lower airport fees and fares. Two years ago there were no W6 aircraft based in TIA, this summer there will be nine. What's so strange to believe that there could well be 19 in three years. No, Albania is not going to be Croatia or Greece in 2025, but enough with this bs that only Albanians go to Albania. After all the numbers speak for themselves.
 
TIA
Posts: 473
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 3:42 am

Re: Wizz Air News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Sun Apr 03, 2022 4:52 pm

Blerg wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
NeperQiell wrote:
In that case i must go tell them to stop speaking such nonsense because an airliners.net expert concluded that it would impossible. Imagine if i told you back in 2020 that Wizz would have 9 aircraft based in TIA by 2022.

If this was in reply to my post, then I'm still awaiting your factual reply to it. And WizzAir are (in)famous for announcing new destinations, new bases and base increases that then don't materialize, so we shall see how much of this actually survives the news release stage.


From what I remember, when Wizz Air announced TIA they said it was because the airport had a new incentive scheme for new routes where they would even get money for marketing purposes. I guess that is still in place.

Also, don't forget that they might be using some of the 9 planes that are based in Tirana for W pattern flights. Albania is not a developed country so their costs are probably low making their operations over there quite lucrative.

The airport is run by a private company which did introduce lower fees, which until then had been significantly higher than in neighbouring airports. But no, this private company is not paying airlines to fly there, unless I'm missing anything on how private entrepreneurship works. They're also expanding the airport, so obviously whatever they're doing is working.
And if it was all about W patterns, then why not keep the planes in SKP or BEG, especially since they were already there. It's not like the crews in Albania are being paid less than in those countries.
 
MalevTU134
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Re: Wizz Air News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Sun Apr 03, 2022 5:04 pm

TIA wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
NeperQiell wrote:

Wow... continue please...

Why, is he incorrect in any way? On a European scale, it's an observation that is spot on. To have 19 aircraft based there,
each carrying 200 pax, seems overkill. Or do you have the numbers to show regarding the huge size of Tirana, or the big important economy of Albania, or the millions and millions of tourists visiting every year? Mind you, at 200 pax/aircraft, 3 roundtrips/day per aircraft, with 19 aircraft that is a capacity of almost 12,000 seats/day each way. Or if you want, over 4 million seats/year, per way. So, do you have the numbers for that? ...continue please...

I'll help you out: in 2019, there were 2.9 million foreign visitors to Albania for leisure purposes. However, most of them came from Kosovo, Macedonia, Montenegro and Greece, in that order, so they didn't fly in. That same year, according do its Wikipedia page, Tirana Nëne Tereza Airport has 3.3 million passengers in total (arriving, departing and transferring, in total). So, assuming every passenger arrived and departed (or the other way around), that's less than 1.7 million people actually travelling, or less than half the capacity WizzAir is throwing at the airport, only counting aircraft based there. Plus all other airlines operating there, of course....

Well, let me help you there. How many tourists were in Albania in 2017, what about 2018? Now, how does the growth look like? See where I'm going with this? The growth at TIA is not due to the diaspora. After all that doesn't grow steadily. I'm not saying that the new routes don't have any VFR on them, but they need more than just them to support them. Otherwise, how does WAW or AUH work?
Albania is the only country in Europe showing growth on the 2019 numbers. Now you can say it's all due to the diaspora, or you can stop letting your biases cloud your judgment and realise that tourism in Albania is skyrocketing. Part of that success story have no doubt been the lower airport fees and fares. Two years ago there were no W6 aircraft based in TIA, this summer there will be nine. What's so strange to believe that there could well be 19 in three years. No, Albania is not going to be Croatia or Greece in 2025, but enough with this bs that only Albanians go to Albania. After all the numbers speak for themselves.

I suggest you re-read my post...and indicate to me where I stated anything that even resembles "only Albanians go to Albania"? Of course there's tourism to Albania. And rightfully so; it's a delightful country. But as I pointed out, current total departing (or arriving) passengers total no more than 1.7 million (tourists + VFR) per year. WizzAir would unleash capacity that is 250% of this. In only 3 years' time, as you pointed out. There's no way international tourism in Albania will increase by that number, or more, in 3 years. You wouldn't even want that to happen, it would wreak havoc on the tourism infrastructure. Hence my initial skepticism. But, as has been pointed out by another poster, the fact that these aircraft are based in Tirana doesn't necessarily mean that they will only fly flights to/from Tirana, but could do W patterns or circle flights (for example TIA-WAW-LTN-BGY-TIA). The fact that they're based in Tirana could be due to the cost benefit of doing so.
 
MalevTU134
Posts: 2475
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: Wizz Air News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Sun Apr 03, 2022 5:07 pm

TIA wrote:
Blerg wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
If this was in reply to my post, then I'm still awaiting your factual reply to it. And WizzAir are (in)famous for announcing new destinations, new bases and base increases that then don't materialize, so we shall see how much of this actually survives the news release stage.


From what I remember, when Wizz Air announced TIA they said it was because the airport had a new incentive scheme for new routes where they would even get money for marketing purposes. I guess that is still in place.

Also, don't forget that they might be using some of the 9 planes that are based in Tirana for W pattern flights. Albania is not a developed country so their costs are probably low making their operations over there quite lucrative.

The airport is run by a private company which did introduce lower fees, which until then had been significantly higher than in neighbouring airports. But no, this private company is not paying airlines to fly there, unless I'm missing anything on how private entrepreneurship works. They're also expanding the airport, so obviously whatever they're doing is working.
And if it was all about W patterns, then why not keep the planes in SKP or BEG, especially since they were already there. It's not like the crews in Albania are being paid less than in those countries.

Is it SKP and/or BEG-based aircraft that will be moved to TIA?
 
jmmadrid
Posts: 427
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 4:00 pm

Re: Wizz Air News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Sun Apr 03, 2022 5:43 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
But, as has been pointed out by another poster, the fact that these aircraft are based in Tirana doesn't necessarily mean that they will only fly flights to/from Tirana, but could do W patterns or circle flights (for example TIA-WAW-LTN-BGY-TIA). The fact that they're based in Tirana could be due to the cost benefit of doing so.


Because this observation made sense to me, I checked Wizzair TIA based airplanes' daily itinerary on FlightRadar and right now it doesn't seem to be the case. There are some exceptions, yes, but the mayority of flights are TIA-xxx-TIA. For example, today there were 22 Wizzair departures at TIA (including one from Wizzair UK and another one from Wizzair AUH). Ten of these departures were to italian destinations, including a double daily to MXP.

Interestingly, WIZZAIR "only" had 6 early morning departures:
06:00 LUT (WIZZAIR UK)
06:10 MXP
06:10 PISA
06:40 FCO
06:40 CGN
07:55 NCE

The next WIZZAIR departure was at 10:40 to TREVISO, which was flown by the same airplane that flew to PISA and back.

So it looks like this schedule can be flown with 5 airplanes (plus maybe one spare). Either they don't have 9 planes based there or they are not using them intensively.

In case you wonder, the situation tomorrow is pretty much the same, with a couple less flights.

People from Milan must love going on holidays to Albania the first week of April to justify a double daily! (Plus other airlines)
 
TIA
Posts: 473
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 3:42 am

Re: Wizz Air News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Sun Apr 03, 2022 5:54 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
TIA wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
Why, is he incorrect in any way? On a European scale, it's an observation that is spot on. To have 19 aircraft based there,
each carrying 200 pax, seems overkill. Or do you have the numbers to show regarding the huge size of Tirana, or the big important economy of Albania, or the millions and millions of tourists visiting every year? Mind you, at 200 pax/aircraft, 3 roundtrips/day per aircraft, with 19 aircraft that is a capacity of almost 12,000 seats/day each way. Or if you want, over 4 million seats/year, per way. So, do you have the numbers for that? ...continue please...

I'll help you out: in 2019, there were 2.9 million foreign visitors to Albania for leisure purposes. However, most of them came from Kosovo, Macedonia, Montenegro and Greece, in that order, so they didn't fly in. That same year, according do its Wikipedia page, Tirana Nëne Tereza Airport has 3.3 million passengers in total (arriving, departing and transferring, in total). So, assuming every passenger arrived and departed (or the other way around), that's less than 1.7 million people actually travelling, or less than half the capacity WizzAir is throwing at the airport, only counting aircraft based there. Plus all other airlines operating there, of course....

Well, let me help you there. How many tourists were in Albania in 2017, what about 2018? Now, how does the growth look like? See where I'm going with this? The growth at TIA is not due to the diaspora. After all that doesn't grow steadily. I'm not saying that the new routes don't have any VFR on them, but they need more than just them to support them. Otherwise, how does WAW or AUH work?
Albania is the only country in Europe showing growth on the 2019 numbers. Now you can say it's all due to the diaspora, or you can stop letting your biases cloud your judgment and realise that tourism in Albania is skyrocketing. Part of that success story have no doubt been the lower airport fees and fares. Two years ago there were no W6 aircraft based in TIA, this summer there will be nine. What's so strange to believe that there could well be 19 in three years. No, Albania is not going to be Croatia or Greece in 2025, but enough with this bs that only Albanians go to Albania. After all the numbers speak for themselves.

I suggest you re-read my post...and indicate to me where I stated anything that even resembles "only Albanians go to Albania"? Of course there's tourism to Albania. And rightfully so; it's a delightful country. But as I pointed out, current total departing (or arriving) passengers total no more than 1.7 million (tourists + VFR) per year. WizzAir would unleash capacity that is 250% of this. In only 3 years' time, as you pointed out. There's no way international tourism in Albania will increase by that number, or more, in 3 years. You wouldn't even want that to happen, it would wreak havoc on the tourism infrastructure. Hence my initial skepticism. But, as has been pointed out by another poster, the fact that these aircraft are based in Tirana doesn't necessarily mean that they will only fly flights to/from Tirana, but could do W patterns or circle flights (for example TIA-WAW-LTN-BGY-TIA). The fact that they're based in Tirana could be due to the cost benefit of doing so.


Again look at the growth trajectory. Why are you fixating on the 2019 numbers in isolation? In 2019 there were ZERO aircraft based there, this year there will be NINE! Look also at the 2021 numbers. It's a bigger feat going from zero to nine in two years in the middle of covid, then from nine to 19 three years from now. You're speaking of this growth as impossible when it's already been happening. As I said, Albania has been surpassing its 2019 numbers, since last July. The only country to do so. Kosovo is the only other country that comes close to it. TIA in the first two months of this year has surpassed even BEG, despite having no transfer passengers.

Regarding your last question, yes the bases in other countries like Serbia and N Macedonia have been scaled down in recent years with capacity being transferred to new bases like TIA. So TIA must bring in more than just cheap labour to justify moving aircraft over. After all, there is no pilot pool in Albania for W6 to take advantage of. They need to transfer staff over from abroad. And that's not dirt cheap. Anecdotal, but some of the highest paid people on the govt payroll in Albania are the foreign pilots of Air Albania.
 
MalevTU134
Posts: 2475
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: Wizz Air News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Sun Apr 03, 2022 6:02 pm

TIA wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
TIA wrote:
Well, let me help you there. How many tourists were in Albania in 2017, what about 2018? Now, how does the growth look like? See where I'm going with this? The growth at TIA is not due to the diaspora. After all that doesn't grow steadily. I'm not saying that the new routes don't have any VFR on them, but they need more than just them to support them. Otherwise, how does WAW or AUH work?
Albania is the only country in Europe showing growth on the 2019 numbers. Now you can say it's all due to the diaspora, or you can stop letting your biases cloud your judgment and realise that tourism in Albania is skyrocketing. Part of that success story have no doubt been the lower airport fees and fares. Two years ago there were no W6 aircraft based in TIA, this summer there will be nine. What's so strange to believe that there could well be 19 in three years. No, Albania is not going to be Croatia or Greece in 2025, but enough with this bs that only Albanians go to Albania. After all the numbers speak for themselves.

I suggest you re-read my post...and indicate to me where I stated anything that even resembles "only Albanians go to Albania"? Of course there's tourism to Albania. And rightfully so; it's a delightful country. But as I pointed out, current total departing (or arriving) passengers total no more than 1.7 million (tourists + VFR) per year. WizzAir would unleash capacity that is 250% of this. In only 3 years' time, as you pointed out. There's no way international tourism in Albania will increase by that number, or more, in 3 years. You wouldn't even want that to happen, it would wreak havoc on the tourism infrastructure. Hence my initial skepticism. But, as has been pointed out by another poster, the fact that these aircraft are based in Tirana doesn't necessarily mean that they will only fly flights to/from Tirana, but could do W patterns or circle flights (for example TIA-WAW-LTN-BGY-TIA). The fact that they're based in Tirana could be due to the cost benefit of doing so.


Again look at the growth trajectory. Why are you fixating on the 2019 numbers in isolation? In 2019 there were ZERO aircraft based there, this year there will be NINE! Look also at the 2021 numbers. It's a bigger feat going from zero to nine in two years in the middle of covid, then from nine to 19 three years from now. You're speaking of this growth as impossible when it's already been happening. As I said, Albania has been surpassing its 2019 numbers, since last July. The only country to do so. Kosovo is the only other country that comes close to it. TIA in the first two months of this year has surpassed even BEG, despite having no transfer passengers.

Regarding your last question, yes the bases in other countries like Serbia and N Macedonia have been scaled down in recent years with capacity being transferred to new bases like TIA. So TIA must bring in more than just cheap labour to justify moving aircraft over. After all, there is no pilot pool in Albania for W6 to take advantage of. They need to transfer staff over from abroad. And that's not dirt cheap. Anecdotal, but some of the highest paid people on the govt payroll in Albania are the foreign pilots of Air Albania.

We shall see, time will tell. Speak again in 2025, shall we? :)
Interesting post. Let's hope Albanian tourism does well, but I wouldn't wish 250% growth in 3 years on anyone.

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