Lufthansa Group News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Cardude2 · Tue May 10, 2022 12:45 am

I have a question, with the A380s gon and the A343s, A346s, and 744's soon to follow how is Lufthansa in order to replace the aircraft (I.e: do they need more to substitute these 4 fleets, or are they all good now)?

also, do you guys think the LH group might buy some of the ex Qatar a350s? (not the NTU's)

smartplane · Tue May 10, 2022 12:54 am

accentra wrote:
mig17 wrote:
accentra wrote:

I suspect that Boeing had to move fast and go quite far to shore up the LH 779 order, in light of the new delays to the programme. The chatter over the last days has all been about LH taking the QR NTU A350-1000s and, potentially, taking over the future QR delivery positions. That could have played badly for the 779. This keeps Lufthansa onboard and committed to the 779. Be interesting to see what happens with the QR A350s and LH now! LH could still have room for them.

The wording is ambiguous: "Seven Boeing 787-9s will compensate for delayed 777-9 deliveries", but what ever level of compensation credit there is here, it seems costly.
By the same logic, EK could get 40 787-9 the same way with 115 777-9 delayed.

Yes, could be that all the 779 airlines will be seeking something similar, now this precedent has been set. I would imagine BA will be looking at this 'deal' very closely and probably expecting something similar to be offered to them? Although I think they've already had some deal on 787s as compensation for various programme delays?

Other 779 customers are not seeking anything similar - they have the same compensation deal, unless their order has been cancelled or amended.

What some airlines are doing, including EK, and now LH, is seeking to vary the agreement, by applying credits for different models, which would normally see the credit value discounted. Presumably the credit is being used with a small or no discount.

LH is a Boeing WB champion, for good reason.

Nicoeddf · Tue May 10, 2022 2:23 am

smartplane wrote:

LH is a Boeing WB champion, for good reason.

Oh, interesting. What are those good reasons?

Blerg · Tue May 10, 2022 6:18 am

I wonder if all these B787s will end up with Lufthansa or some might be handed over to OS. After all, they are in desperate need of younger widebody aircraft.
That said, OS is getting some A320neo so who knows, maybe this is part of their fleet rejuvenation process.

frigatebird · Tue May 10, 2022 9:06 am

Blerg wrote:
I wonder if all these B787s will end up with Lufthansa or some might be handed over to OS. After all, they are in desperate need of younger widebody aircraft.
That said, OS is getting some A320neo so who knows, maybe this is part of their fleet rejuvenation process.

I was wondering about that too. Last year, there was a rumor that OS would get 4 former Norwegian 787s. That has gone quiet, and I speculate now LH will gobble up all 787s on order, as full replacement for their A333/A343s. Their remaining A330s are not that old at all, and could be useful for OS. OS would then have just Airbus and Embraer aircraft, which makes sense for a relatively small airline.

I think the "originally intended for other airlines" in the Lufthansa press release mentioned below, was a reference to Austrian. I think Swiss will get A350s eventually.

Breathe wrote:
Nicoeddf wrote:
One hears 777-8F, 787-9 and more 777F have been ordered…

https://www.lufthansagroup.com/en/newsroom.html

The press release regarding the new 787s says:

Lufthansa will receive the aircraft, which were originally intended for other airlines, in 2025 and 2026.

Any ideas which airlines they were originally destined to and what engines they will use?

Blotto · Tue May 10, 2022 9:31 am

frigatebird wrote:
I think the "originally intended for other airlines" in the Lufthansa press release mentioned below, was a reference to Austrian. I think Swiss will get A350s eventually.

No it's a reference to those aircraft being NTUs

frigatebird · Tue May 10, 2022 10:29 am

Blotto wrote:
frigatebird wrote:
I think the "originally intended for other airlines" in the Lufthansa press release mentioned below, was a reference to Austrian. I think Swiss will get A350s eventually.

No it's a reference to those aircraft being NTUs

Oh, OK. That makes sense indeed. Thank you :thumbsup:

Blerg · Tue May 10, 2022 1:45 pm

frigatebird wrote:
Blerg wrote:
I wonder if all these B787s will end up with Lufthansa or some might be handed over to OS. After all, they are in desperate need of younger widebody aircraft.
That said, OS is getting some A320neo so who knows, maybe this is part of their fleet rejuvenation process.

I was wondering about that too. Last year, there was a rumor that OS would get 4 former Norwegian 787s. That has gone quiet, and I speculate now LH will gobble up all 787s on order, as full replacement for their A333/A343s. Their remaining A330s are not that old at all, and could be useful for OS. OS would then have just Airbus and Embraer aircraft, which makes sense for a relatively small airline.

I think the "originally intended for other airlines" in the Lufthansa press release mentioned below, was a reference to Austrian. I think Swiss will get A350s eventually.

Breathe wrote:
Nicoeddf wrote:
One hears 777-8F, 787-9 and more 777F have been ordered…

https://www.lufthansagroup.com/en/newsroom.html

The press release regarding the new 787s says:

Lufthansa will receive the aircraft, which were originally intended for other airlines, in 2025 and 2026.

Any ideas which airlines they were originally destined to and what engines they will use?

I wonder if maybe adding B788s would a good first start. I don't know if OS needs the 777/789 capacity right now. The market doesn't seem to be back to where it was pre-covid.

jreuschl · Tue May 10, 2022 3:44 pm

I flew out of TPA yesterday and noticed the LH flight. How is the TPA route doing? What is its status as far as full mainline, or one of the other divisions?

MaxiAir · Tue May 10, 2022 8:43 pm

Cardude2 wrote:
accentra wrote:
It will be interesting to see what engines these additional 787s end up with. LH opted for RR for their original frames. But things are becoming muddied as Boeing offers them NTUs, potentially with GE engines. We'll see what the fleet ultimately looks like.

LH's fleet will probably be all GE due to the 748 while the RRs will go to the other airlines (i.e: OS, SN, or 4Y)

Wrong. The 5 HNA ntu frames are GE, the next 25 are RR. Its still unclear as of now, what the additional 7 will be equipped with. So LH will have plenty of RR powered 789 in their fleet.

Further, 748 and 787 engines look similar, but are nowhere near interchangeable. Almost completely different engines.

MaxiAir · Tue May 10, 2022 8:45 pm

Nicoeddf wrote:
smartplane wrote:

LH is a Boeing WB champion, for good reason.

Oh, interesting. What are those good reasons?

I'm also interested what these "good reasons" are. The original 787 order was mostly a political one, as Carsten Spohr has stated plenty of times. Keeping both manufacturers in the loop to prevent "having an all Airbus fleet" for obvious reasons. Not more, not less.

MaxiAir · Tue May 10, 2022 8:49 pm

Blotto wrote:
frigatebird wrote:
I think the "originally intended for other airlines" in the Lufthansa press release mentioned below, was a reference to Austrian. I think Swiss will get A350s eventually.

No it's a reference to those aircraft being NTUs

Or at least originally ordered by other airlines, as those 7 are supposed to be delivered from 2025 onwards. (While the original 25 are being delivered in a tighter schedule)
So assuming those are already built and sitting in the desert for another 3 years is a bit weird.
These are probably just delivery slots, possibly with some long lead time items attached to those frames (ie engines or whatever).

yyztpa2 · Wed May 11, 2022 4:14 am

jreuschl wrote:
I flew out of TPA yesterday and noticed the LH flight. How is the TPA route doing? What is its status as far as full mainline, or one of the other divisions?

Schedule shows the LH flight only in May with no direct option on either Lufthansa or Eurowing in June

Blotto · Wed May 11, 2022 7:21 am

MaxiAir wrote:
Or at least originally ordered by other airlines, as those 7 are supposed to be delivered from 2025 onwards. (While the original 25 are being delivered in a tighter schedule)
So assuming those are already built and sitting in the desert for another 3 years is a bit weird.
These are probably just delivery slots, possibly with some long lead time items attached to those frames (ie engines or whatever).

Yeah, I head the same thought. But appearently Boeing agread to some kind of cabin rework. That wouldn't be necessary for just build slots. I guess the information will flow in the next days

PM · Wed May 11, 2022 7:41 am

MaxiAir wrote:
Cardude2 wrote:
accentra wrote:
It will be interesting to see what engines these additional 787s end up with. LH opted for RR for their original frames. But things are becoming muddied as Boeing offers them NTUs, potentially with GE engines. We'll see what the fleet ultimately looks like.

LH's fleet will probably be all GE due to the 748 while the RRs will go to the other airlines (i.e: OS, SN, or 4Y)

Wrong. The 5 HNA ntu frames are GE, the next 25 are RR. Its still unclear as of now, what the additional 7 will be equipped with. So LH will have plenty of RR powered 789 in their fleet.

I think you're doing a bit of double accounting there. LH ordered 20 with RR in 2019. Last year they added 5 with GE. Now there are 7 more coming with the engine type (so far) unknown.

stylo777 · Wed May 11, 2022 7:44 am

yyztpa2 wrote:
jreuschl wrote:
I flew out of TPA yesterday and noticed the LH flight. How is the TPA route doing? What is its status as far as full mainline, or one of the other divisions?

Schedule shows the LH flight only in May with no direct option on either Lufthansa or Eurowing in June

no entirely correct:
- LH operates until end of May
- 4Y (EW Discover) will take over over the summer schedule with 5x weekly flights (almost same evening departure times)
- those 4Y flights will be operated by AY/A359s this summer and continues with 4Y own 330s next winter

mercure1 · Wed May 11, 2022 5:03 pm

Lufthansa says it seeks to divest the rest of its stake LSG catering unit and could also sell a minority stake in Lufthansa Technik.

https://www.euronews.com/next/2022/05/1 ... tructuring
https://centreforaviation.com/news/luft ... ik-1135721

A321Lufthansa · Wed May 11, 2022 7:46 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
LH orders 7 more 787-9s and has accelerated delivery of aircraft.

https://www.lufthansagroup.com/en/newsr ... craft.html

Maybe there is some reserve for OS?

Blerg · Wed May 11, 2022 8:04 pm

A321Lufthansa wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
LH orders 7 more 787-9s and has accelerated delivery of aircraft.

https://www.lufthansagroup.com/en/newsr ... craft.html

Maybe there is some reserve for OS?

Who knows. Lufthansa said that they don't intend on renewing OS' fleet until they improve their finances. Given their catastrophic Q1 2022 financial performance ...

LXA340 · Wed May 11, 2022 8:19 pm

Blerg wrote:
A321Lufthansa wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
LH orders 7 more 787-9s and has accelerated delivery of aircraft.

https://www.lufthansagroup.com/en/newsr ... craft.html

Maybe there is some reserve for OS?

Who knows. Lufthansa said that they don't intend on renewing OS' fleet until they improve their finances. Given their catastrophic Q1 2022 financial performance ...

The OS Long Haul fleet is so old that there is no other choice than replacing it. The cheapest option would be to replace the long haul fleet with A333's currently with other group airlines. Resulting that certain routes could not be served anymore by OS as the A333 doesn't have the range such as LAX, CPT and NRT (especially now with the detours involved).

ikolkyo · Wed May 11, 2022 8:25 pm

LXA340 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
A321Lufthansa wrote:

Maybe there is some reserve for OS?

Who knows. Lufthansa said that they don't intend on renewing OS' fleet until they improve their finances. Given their catastrophic Q1 2022 financial performance ...

The OS Long Haul fleet is so old that there is no other choice than replacing it. The cheapest option would be to replace the long haul fleet with A333's currently with other group airlines. Resulting that certain routes could not be served anymore by OS as the A333 doesn't have the range such as LAX, CPT and NRT (especially now with the detours involved).

The cabins on their aircraft are still very nice despite the age.

Blerg · Thu May 12, 2022 5:38 am

LXA340 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
A321Lufthansa wrote:

Maybe there is some reserve for OS?

Who knows. Lufthansa said that they don't intend on renewing OS' fleet until they improve their finances. Given their catastrophic Q1 2022 financial performance ...

The OS Long Haul fleet is so old that there is no other choice than replacing it. The cheapest option would be to replace the long haul fleet with A333's currently with other group airlines. Resulting that certain routes could not be served anymore by OS as the A333 doesn't have the range such as LAX, CPT and NRT (especially now with the detours involved).

Would CPT be such an issue for OS? I mean TK sends (or used to send) their A330s into South Africa. I can't imagine the flight from Vienna being much longer.
Then again, who knows what will happen in the end. OS' long-haul fleet has shrunk in the past few years, I believe they have retired three B767s without replacing them. Maybe Lufthansa feels that there is no need for OS to have a considerable long-haul network especially since MUC is right next door. The last thing they need is to have two of their hubs compete against each other.

Blerg · Thu May 12, 2022 5:38 am

ikolkyo wrote:
LXA340 wrote:
Blerg wrote:

Who knows. Lufthansa said that they don't intend on renewing OS' fleet until they improve their finances. Given their catastrophic Q1 2022 financial performance ...

The OS Long Haul fleet is so old that there is no other choice than replacing it. The cheapest option would be to replace the long haul fleet with A333's currently with other group airlines. Resulting that certain routes could not be served anymore by OS as the A333 doesn't have the range such as LAX, CPT and NRT (especially now with the detours involved).

The cabins on their aircraft are still very nice despite the age.

True, they did get a cabin upgrade but I wonder what the reliability is like of such an old fleet.

mxaxai · Thu May 12, 2022 6:50 am

mercure1 wrote:
Lufthansa says it seeks to divest the rest of its stake LSG catering unit

On that topic, I had two flights with LH some weeks ago, and on both flights they didn't offer any food or drinks to buy due to "staff shortages at the caterer". Handed out a complimentary bottle of water and a small piece of chocolate instead. I wonder if issues like this will increase as LSG gets reorganized.

stylo777 · Thu May 12, 2022 7:20 am

The number of OS longhaul destinations is quite limited and has steadily gone down in recent years. Very unfortunate since OS has one of the best onboard products among all LHG airlines - especially crews, catering and Business/Premium Eco seats. And in this regards and all honesty, for the passengers it rarely matters if it's an 20+ years old 76W or brandnew 787 they are sitting in if those llisted before are good/bad.

Destinations currently served from VIE with 772: BKK, EWR, NRT, ORD, PVG and MLE, MRU
...and with 76W: IAD, JFK, YUL

Blerg wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
LXA340 wrote:

The OS Long Haul fleet is so old that there is no other choice than replacing it. The cheapest option would be to replace the long haul fleet with A333's currently with other group airlines. Resulting that certain routes could not be served anymore by OS as the A333 doesn't have the range such as LAX, CPT and NRT (especially now with the detours involved).

The cabins on their aircraft are still very nice despite the age.

True, they did get a cabin upgrade but I wonder what the reliability is like of such an old fleet.

in fact, dispatch reliability is extremely good despite the age. Austrian Technik is doing a great job.

Blerg · Thu May 12, 2022 7:53 am

stylo777 wrote:
The number of OS longhaul destinations is quite limited and has steadily gone down in recent years. Very unfortunate since OS has one of the best onboard products among all LHG airlines - especially crews, catering and Business/Premium Eco seats. And in this regards and all honesty, for the passengers it rarely matters if it's an 20+ years old 76W or brandnew 787 they are sitting in if those llisted before are good/bad.

Destinations currently served from VIE with 772: BKK, EWR, NRT, ORD, PVG and MLE, MRU
...and with 76W: IAD, JFK, YUL

Blerg wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:

The cabins on their aircraft are still very nice despite the age.

True, they did get a cabin upgrade but I wonder what the reliability is like of such an old fleet.

in fact, dispatch reliability is extremely good despite the age. Austrian Technik is doing a great job.

I think it also helps that their widebody fleet isn't stretched thin. I think their long-haul flights have at least 4 to 5 hours between two rotations.

stylo777 · Thu May 12, 2022 8:28 am

Blerg wrote:
stylo777 wrote:
The number of OS longhaul destinations is quite limited and has steadily gone down in recent years. Very unfortunate since OS has one of the best onboard products among all LHG airlines - especially crews, catering and Business/Premium Eco seats. And in this regards and all honesty, for the passengers it rarely matters if it's an 20+ years old 76W or brandnew 787 they are sitting in if those llisted before are good/bad.

Destinations currently served from VIE with 772: BKK, EWR, NRT, ORD, PVG and MLE, MRU
...and with 76W: IAD, JFK, YUL

Blerg wrote:

True, they did get a cabin upgrade but I wonder what the reliability is like of such an old fleet.

in fact, dispatch reliability is extremely good despite the age. Austrian Technik is doing a great job.

I think it also helps that their widebody fleet isn't stretched thin. I think their long-haul flights have at least 4 to 5 hours between two rotations.

I would say it's a bit less (2-3 hrs), but you are absolutely correct - it surely helps to have enough time at your hub to perform smaller maintenance tasks.
On top of that, the "operational reserve" is also taken care of through the flight schedule. For example, their 76W fleet is down to 3 frames and dedicated to daily IAD and JFK runs as well as 5x weekly YUL. Similarily on the 772 fleet (6 frames): BKK, EWR and ORD are daily, NRT for this summer at least 3x weekly, LAX will come online (6x weekly eff. 06JUL) and MLE, MRU will be gone for the summer.

Blerg · Thu May 12, 2022 8:50 am

stylo777 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
stylo777 wrote:
The number of OS longhaul destinations is quite limited and has steadily gone down in recent years. Very unfortunate since OS has one of the best onboard products among all LHG airlines - especially crews, catering and Business/Premium Eco seats. And in this regards and all honesty, for the passengers it rarely matters if it's an 20+ years old 76W or brandnew 787 they are sitting in if those llisted before are good/bad.

Destinations currently served from VIE with 772: BKK, EWR, NRT, ORD, PVG and MLE, MRU
...and with 76W: IAD, JFK, YUL

in fact, dispatch reliability is extremely good despite the age. Austrian Technik is doing a great job.

I think it also helps that their widebody fleet isn't stretched thin. I think their long-haul flights have at least 4 to 5 hours between two rotations.

I would say it's a bit less (2-3 hrs), but you are absolutely correct - it surely helps to have enough time at your hub to perform smaller maintenance tasks.
On top of that, the "operational reserve" is also taken care of through the flight schedule. For example, their 76W fleet is down to 3 frames and dedicated to daily IAD and JFK runs as well as 5x weekly YUL. Similarily on the 772 fleet (6 frames): BKK, EWR and ORD are daily, NRT for this summer at least 3x weekly, LAX will come online (6x weekly eff. 06JUL) and MLE, MRU will be gone for the summer.

That is why I expect them to change something once the global situation improves. I think they need to decide what kind of long-haul product they want to have. Either stick to Star Alliance hubs or develop new markets. However, I think for them the biggest problem is MUC which seems to be aggressively expanding.

InnsbruckFlyer · Thu May 12, 2022 9:57 am

Seems like LH will introduce a new, fully closable F product. Can't see the seat itself, but there's a banner for it behind the Premium Economy mockup:
https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/ur ... 386056193/

4engines4short · Thu May 12, 2022 3:02 pm

InnsbruckFlyer wrote:
Seems like LH will introduce a new, fully closable F product. Can't see the seat itself, but there's a banner for it behind the Premium Economy mockup:
https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/ur ... 386056193/

Thats a shame privacy is nice in j class but in first I would want a more open space. But a fully included space has more wow factor. I honestly prefer the look of la premiere over emirates . It's not like they are lacking in privatey for sleeping the former has curtains and LH has a large privacy patichion.

georgiabill · Thu May 12, 2022 6:16 pm

I wonder if in the next few years OS might consider starting BOS again?

scottb2001 · Fri May 13, 2022 11:43 am

I see D-AIHW A346 is on its way back from TEV storage to FRA.

RB211trent · Fri May 13, 2022 4:47 pm

PM wrote:
MaxiAir wrote:
Cardude2 wrote:

LH's fleet will probably be all GE due to the 748 while the RRs will go to the other airlines (i.e: OS, SN, or 4Y)

Wrong. The 5 HNA ntu frames are GE, the next 25 are RR. Its still unclear as of now, what the additional 7 will be equipped with. So LH will have plenty of RR powered 789 in their fleet.

I think you're doing a bit of double accounting there. LH ordered 20 with RR in 2019. Last year they added 5 with GE. Now there are 7 more coming with the engine type (so far) unknown.

The 7 are RR powered.

PM · Fri May 13, 2022 4:56 pm

RB211trent wrote:
PM wrote:
MaxiAir wrote:

Wrong. The 5 HNA ntu frames are GE, the next 25 are RR. Its still unclear as of now, what the additional 7 will be equipped with. So LH will have plenty of RR powered 789 in their fleet.

I think you're doing a bit of double accounting there. LH ordered 20 with RR in 2019. Last year they added 5 with GE. Now there are 7 more coming with the engine type (so far) unknown.

The 7 are RR powered.

Very happy to hear it but how do you know?

JerseyFlyer · Fri May 13, 2022 5:37 pm

Where are the 7 from? Norwegian?

ikolkyo · Fri May 13, 2022 6:01 pm

JerseyFlyer wrote:
Where are the 7 from? Norwegian?

An additional order they made a few days ago.

RB211trent · Fri May 13, 2022 7:31 pm

PM wrote:
RB211trent wrote:
PM wrote:
I think you're doing a bit of double accounting there. LH ordered 20 with RR in 2019. Last year they added 5 with GE. Now there are 7 more coming with the engine type (so far) unknown.

The 7 are RR powered.

Very happy to hear it but how do you know?

Can’t say, but definitely RR. Don’t know exactly which white tails though.

accentra · Fri May 13, 2022 10:03 pm

[code][/code]

RB211trent wrote:
PM wrote:
RB211trent wrote:

The 7 are RR powered.

Very happy to hear it but how do you know?

Can’t say, but definitely RR. Don’t know exactly which white tails though.

Great news for RR. Have the TotalCare packages for the engines been signed then? ;-)

Especially interesting as RR were talking today about re-establishing themselves on the 787:

https://www.flightglobal.com/air-transp ... 55.article

Although I'm still not entirely clear about whether these additional seven frames are white tails or assumed delivery positions from cancelled orders? There's quite a difference, including potential (with the latter) to choose the engine preference.

PM · Sat May 14, 2022 7:31 am

RB211trent wrote:
PM wrote:
RB211trent wrote:

The 7 are RR powered.

Very happy to hear it but how do you know?

Can’t say, but definitely RR. Don’t know exactly which white tails though.

Well, let the guessing begin. Here's a start. The following four MSNs have all flown with RR and were destined for Norwegian.

955, 971, 983, 1011.

Interestingly, there has been speculation that they might be going to Austrian so they seem to be on LH's radar.

Now we need three more.

PM · Sat May 14, 2022 8:16 am

PM wrote:
RB211trent wrote:
PM wrote:
Very happy to hear it but how do you know?

Can’t say, but definitely RR. Don’t know exactly which white tails though.

Well, let the guessing begin. Here's a start. The following four MSNs have all flown with RR and were destined for Norwegian.

955, 971, 983, 1011.

Interestingly, there has been speculation that they might be going to Austrian so they seem to be on LH's radar.

Now we need three more.

These four are, I suppose, the definition of white tails: built and flown but never delivered.

But there are further -9s with RR sitting idle that have been delivered.

400, 418, 450, 488, 588, 600, 608, 619, 664, 673 were all delivered to Norwegian (often through lessors) and are now looking for new homes.

(Ditto 715 but that now appears to be going to LATAM.)

So, no shortage of options!

RB211trent · Sat May 14, 2022 10:34 am

All are coming from Boeing. Air China, LOT or Air Europa white tails?

PM · Sat May 14, 2022 10:37 am

RB211trent wrote:
All are coming from Boeing. Air China, LOT or Air Europa white tails?

I didn't know there were any Air China, LOT or Air Europa white tails.

frigatebird · Sat May 14, 2022 11:33 am

PM wrote:
RB211trent wrote:
All are coming from Boeing. Air China, LOT or Air Europa white tails?

I didn't know there were any Air China, LOT or Air Europa white tails.

Air China there’s definitely one NTU, LOT not sure, their relationship with Boeing has gone sour but I don’t know if this has led to any cancellations. LOT threatened to sue Boeing over 737MAX compensation, didn’t hear how that turned out. Air Europa has leased some 787s from Norse for the summer season, so I can’t imagine them not taking up the 787s when Boeing is allowed to deliver these again.

PM · Sat May 14, 2022 12:50 pm

frigatebird wrote:
PM wrote:
RB211trent wrote:
All are coming from Boeing. Air China, LOT or Air Europa white tails?

I didn't know there were any Air China, LOT or Air Europa white tails.

Air China there’s definitely one NTU, LOT not sure, their relationship with Boeing has gone sour but I don’t know if this has led to any cancellations. LOT threatened to sue Boeing over 737MAX compensation, didn’t hear how that turned out. Air Europa has leased some 787s from Norse for the summer season, so I can’t imagine them not taking up the 787s when Boeing is allowed to deliver these again.

By Air China, you mean the mysterious MSN 688 that was built four years ago but, as far as I know, has never flown. There has be be a story there. I can't see LH (or anyone) wanting that frame.

LOT seem to have two planes that have flown but have not been delivered. But that doesn't mean they don't want them. (And I think they are both leased.)

Air Europa have eight planes flown but not delivered.

Could be but I doubt if this is where LH is getting seven more.

VCVSpotter · Sun May 15, 2022 6:09 pm

PM wrote:
RB211trent wrote:
PM wrote:
Very happy to hear it but how do you know?

Can’t say, but definitely RR. Don’t know exactly which white tails though.

Well, let the guessing begin. Here's a start. The following four MSNs have all flown with RR and were destined for Norwegian.

955, 971, 983, 1011.

Interestingly, there has been speculation that they might be going to Austrian so they seem to be on LH's radar.

Now we need three more.

Apparently LOT 789 SP-LSH is an NTU according to this spotter in CHS (who seems to have some insider info on occasion), so you can add LN1036 to that list too.
https://twitter.com/BoeingSCSpotter/sta ... 1609234434

For the sake of argument, I could see both LOT 789s being an NTU (would be odd if they only cancelled one). That frees up LN1036 and LN1046.

Then, I could see that Air China 789 LN688 filling in the final spot, making it 7/7. This is just guess work though.

Heard a few months ago that LATAM still wanted those 789s, just delayed. Makes sense since they 'just' dumped their entire A359 fleet.

smartplane · Sun May 15, 2022 6:50 pm

VCVSpotter wrote:
Heard a few months ago that LATAM still wanted those 789s, just delayed. Makes sense since they 'just' dumped their entire A359 fleet.

Might look like they were dumped. Reality is the 767 and 777 fleet have very low values, and floating charges over them securing other advances.

Polot · Sun May 15, 2022 8:14 pm

smartplane wrote:
VCVSpotter wrote:
Heard a few months ago that LATAM still wanted those 789s, just delayed. Makes sense since they 'just' dumped their entire A359 fleet.

Might look like they were dumped. Reality is the 767 and 777 fleet have very low values, and floating charges over them securing other advances.

It doesn’t “look” like they were dumped…the A350 fleet was in fact dumped. Now better A350 values (and also therefore higher lease rates) may be why the fleet was eliminated instead of the older 767 or 777 fleet (although I’d argue that while may be the case against the 77W the 767 largely have a different role in LATAM fleet), but that doesn’t change the fact that the fleet was dumped. LATAM might still eventually want those 787s as they still operate the type and have nothing else on order for longhaul replacement or expansion.

conaly · Mon May 16, 2022 5:35 pm

Seems like Lufthansa updates their First Class to fully closable suites:
https://twitter.com/xJonNYC/status/1524 ... 68/photo/1

According to aero.de, ten A350-900 will get four F-suites each. The A350s with F will all be stationed in Munich.
https://www.aero.de/news-42620/Lufthans ... -A350.html

Opus99 · Mon May 16, 2022 6:18 pm

https://twitter.com/mattcawby/status/15 ... W6tjIXEpuQ

First LH 787 fully painted

ikolkyo · Mon May 16, 2022 6:23 pm

The engine situation is very interesting to me when it comes to these 787s, I wonder what the split ends up being.

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