Lufthansa Group News and Discussion Thread - 2022

A359bw · Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:23 pm

I don't believe in it either. But there were once rumors for these whitetails. And currently leasing conditions are certainly somewhat better

A359bw · Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:16 am

CityLine's two E195s are rumored to be moving to Austrian

MartijnNL · Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:59 pm

zkojq wrote:
The A340-600s are returning! People said they would never return to LH, but it's finally happening!

D-AIHT flew MLA-FRA after post storage work.

D-AIHV flew TEV-MLA to begin post storage work.

That is really great news for us aviation addicts. I specifically looked up this thread to ask the following question: is anything known about the announced A340-600 service re-entry? Now I already have the answer. Thank you.

DABYT wrote:
Supposedly 5 will be returning to service and stay in the fleet until the end of 2023. First routes will be flown from FRA and later this summer they’ll all be shifted to MUC as LH cannot offer any first class flights from MUC at the moment. They‘ll finally be replaced when the A350 with first class cabin will be delivered.

Are any destinations already known? I will surely keep an eye out for flights operated by the A340-600 as this type is still missing from my logbook. Let's hope all covid testing requirements will soon be abolished now and we can travel on this magnificant machine without worry and stress.

Fingers crossed for a U.S. west coast destination! :crossfingers:

runway23 · Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:27 pm

MartijnNL wrote:
zkojq wrote:
The A340-600s are returning! People said they would never return to LH, but it's finally happening!

D-AIHT flew MLA-FRA after post storage work.

D-AIHV flew TEV-MLA to begin post storage work.

That is really great news for us aviation addicts. I specifically looked up this thread to ask the following question: is anything known about the announced A340-600 service re-entry? Now I already have the answer. Thank you.

DABYT wrote:
Supposedly 5 will be returning to service and stay in the fleet until the end of 2023. First routes will be flown from FRA and later this summer they’ll all be shifted to MUC as LH cannot offer any first class flights from MUC at the moment. They‘ll finally be replaced when the A350 with first class cabin will be delivered.

Are any destinations already known? I will surely keep an eye out for flights operated by the A340-600 as this type is still missing from my logbook. Let's hope all covid testing requirements will soon be abolished now and we can travel on this magnificant machine without worry and stress.

Fingers crossed for a U.S. west coast destination!

The 346s would have probably not returned had the 787s been delivered as scheduled.

C777ER · Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:33 pm

They will be flying them between Munich and BOS, LAX, JFK & EWR.

MartijnNL · Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:37 pm

C777ER wrote:
They will be flying them between Munich and BOS, LAX, JFK & EWR.

Thank you. Do you also know the destinations from Frankfurt?

C777ER · Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:42 am

They were supposed to have started service from FRA to JFK & IAD already, not sure what happened, then they get moved to MUC

jfk777 · Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:14 am

Fuel was much cheaper when LH planned the return for their A340-600 planes. Flying an A340-600 to LAX from Munich is not cheap even when fuel is cheap. Good Luck LH, bet you can't wait for those A350's.

ben7x · Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:35 am

runway23 wrote:
MartijnNL wrote:
zkojq wrote:
The A340-600s are returning! People said they would never return to LH, but it's finally happening!

D-AIHT flew MLA-FRA after post storage work.

D-AIHV flew TEV-MLA to begin post storage work.

That is really great news for us aviation addicts. I specifically looked up this thread to ask the following question: is anything known about the announced A340-600 service re-entry? Now I already have the answer. Thank you.

DABYT wrote:
Supposedly 5 will be returning to service and stay in the fleet until the end of 2023. First routes will be flown from FRA and later this summer they’ll all be shifted to MUC as LH cannot offer any first class flights from MUC at the moment. They‘ll finally be replaced when the A350 with first class cabin will be delivered.

Are any destinations already known? I will surely keep an eye out for flights operated by the A340-600 as this type is still missing from my logbook. Let's hope all covid testing requirements will soon be abolished now and we can travel on this magnificant machine without worry and stress.

Fingers crossed for a U.S. west coast destination!

The 346s would have probably not returned had the 787s been delivered as scheduled.

That’s probably not right. They brought back the A346 because of First class for MUC. That has nothing to do with 787 deliveries as they neither have First, nor will they be based in MUC.

ben7x · Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:39 am

C777ER wrote:
They were supposed to have started service from FRA to JFK & IAD already, not sure what happened, then they get moved to MUC

There are rumours that the aircraft needed more maintenance than initially expected due to damage which occurred during storage. That’s why they cancelled the A346 ops from FRA for now as the aircraft are not yet ready.

jfk777 · Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:51 pm

What " Damage" happened to the stored A340-600's ?

A359bw · Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:39 pm

They have problems with corrosion and with reversers

ben7x · Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:23 pm

jfk777 wrote:
What " Damage" happened to the stored A340-600's ?

In German it’s called Standschäden. I don’t know how it’s called in English. Word-by-word translated it would be something like ,standing-damage‘.
As @A359bw already wrote, something like corrosion. Condor has similar problems on their ex EY A332 after they have been stored in AUH for years.

RalXWB · Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:25 pm

Corrosion damage or storage damage.

A359bw · Fri Jan 28, 2022 7:44 am

https://www.facebook.com/lufthansacargoag/photos/pcb.4864058483685898/4864058160352597/

This is the first A321P2F for Lufthansa Cargo.

He will be transferred to munich on saturday

ben7x · Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:27 pm

A359bw wrote:
https://www.facebook.com/lufthansacargoag/photos/pcb.4864058483685898/4864058160352597/

This is the first A321P2F for Lufthansa Cargo.

He will be transferred to munich on saturday

I wonder if it will be painted prior to EIS. But their leased 777 is all-white to, so probably not.

A321Lufthansa · Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:23 am

Why are the repaints at EW held constantly even with less than 6 years after the previous repaint while at LH there are no repaints at all?

A359bw · Mon Jan 31, 2022 11:11 am

Lufthansa must save money

A359bw · Mon Jan 31, 2022 4:59 pm

The last of the four former PAL A350s has now arrived in MUC.

The first A350 will then be officially taken over in February.

nipkow · Tue Feb 01, 2022 8:15 am

A359bw wrote:
CityLine's two E195s are rumored to be moving to Austrian

It is confirmed that these two E195s are moving to EN.
German Article

marcogr12 · Tue Feb 01, 2022 12:08 pm

nipkow wrote:
A359bw wrote:
CityLine's two E195s are rumored to be moving to Austrian

It is confirmed that these two E195s are moving to EN.
German Article

Does this mean EN will expand its network from its italian bases, with more aircraft to come ? And if LH gets rid of all E190/95s what will their regional fleet consist of? CRJ-900s and A319s which are a lot heavier and costly than the E195s?

ben7x · Tue Feb 01, 2022 1:49 pm

marcogr12 wrote:
nipkow wrote:
A359bw wrote:
CityLine's two E195s are rumored to be moving to Austrian

It is confirmed that these two E195s are moving to EN.
German Article

Does this mean EN will expand its network from its italian bases, with more aircraft to come ? And if LH gets rid of all E190/95s what will their regional fleet consist of? CRJ-900s and A319s which are a lot heavier and costly than the E195s?

Who said they will phase out their E190? For now they will keep them as they need them for LCY.
If EN gets the E190 and operates the flights to LCY, yes, then the fleet will only consist of CRJ900 and A319. But EN does lots of (if not only?) wetlease for LH, so actually it doesn’t matter who operates the flights. It will be the airline with the lowest cost base.

A359bw · Wed Feb 02, 2022 1:04 pm

Austrian Airlines adds two new A320neo aircraft from the Lufthansa Group order in summer 2022.

HB-IWC · Wed Feb 02, 2022 3:49 pm

A359bw wrote:
Austrian Airlines adds two new A320neo aircraft from the Lufthansa Group order in summer 2022.

Are all the existing A320/321 staying? Plenty are currently parked, in particular the A321 fleet reaching advanced age.

A359bw · Thu Feb 03, 2022 8:35 am

HB-IWC wrote:
A359bw wrote:
Austrian Airlines adds two new A320neo aircraft from the Lufthansa Group order in summer 2022.

Are all the existing A320/321 staying? Plenty are currently parked, in particular the A321 fleet reaching advanced age.

All 61 planes that are currently there will be operated in the summer.

xwb777 · Thu Feb 03, 2022 3:12 pm

Lufthansa to install new upgraded PE seats on its A350, B748 and B789 fleets.

https://www.businesstraveller.com/busin ... o-b747-8s/

Cardude2 · Thu Feb 03, 2022 7:05 pm

xwb777 wrote:
Lufthansa to install new upgraded PE seats on its A350, B748 and B789 fleets.

https://www.businesstraveller.com/busin ... o-b747-8s/

great but what puzzles me is that for swiss thay will install these an their A340's which I thought were suppose to be retired shortly.

Someone83 · Fri Feb 04, 2022 2:31 pm

Will Lufthansa's coming A321P2Fs get a full/regular Lufthansa Cargo livery?

JerseyFlyer · Wed Feb 09, 2022 1:06 pm

One of the recently unretired B744s had an engine shutdown a couple of days ago.

https://www.aerotime.aero/30173-lufhans ... ne-trouble

330lover · Wed Feb 09, 2022 9:02 pm

JerseyFlyer wrote:
One of the recently unretired B744s had an engine shutdown a couple of days ago.

https://www.aerotime.aero/30173-lufhans ... ne-trouble

Just saw this Passing by on FB
https://mentourpilot.com/incident-lufth ... tyiUlrlTy8

54678264582 · Thu Feb 10, 2022 3:00 am

JerseyFlyer wrote:
One of the recently unretired B744s had an engine shutdown a couple of days ago.

https://www.aerotime.aero/30173-lufhans ... ne-trouble

Sensationalist wording in there, "plunged". Doesn't really mean much tbh if they had an engine problem it happens

atcsundevil · Thu Feb 10, 2022 3:13 am

777luver wrote:
JerseyFlyer wrote:
One of the recently unretired B744s had an engine shutdown a couple of days ago.

https://www.aerotime.aero/30173-lufhans ... ne-trouble

Sensationalist wording in there, "plunged". Doesn't really mean much tbh if they had an engine problem it happens

No kidding. It brings to mind the joke about "the dreaded three engine landing". Plunged two thousand feet and managed to return an hour back to its origin...terrifying. There's no question that it's disconcerting for those on board, but I can think of worse aircraft to lose an engine on. Anything with one engine comes to mind.

columba · Thu Feb 10, 2022 7:21 am

According to the website aerotelegraph LH will have to wait a little bit longer till they receive their first 787

mcg · Thu Feb 10, 2022 3:14 pm

I've got a flight booked on LH DEN - FRA in early May. Now it shows the flight operated by a Airbus 333, I'm curious as to the probability that the flight is actually operated by an Airbus 333, what is the chance that the equipment changes? I know it's all speculation, but I really hope it turns out to be the 333. thanks in advance for any info.

ben7x · Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:56 pm

mcg wrote:
I've got a flight booked on LH DEN - FRA in early May. Now it shows the flight operated by a Airbus 333, I'm curious as to the probability that the flight is actually operated by an Airbus 333, what is the chance that the equipment changes? I know it's all speculation, but I really hope it turns out to be the 333. thanks in advance for any info.

The flights to Austin were also operated by an A333 and as it’s winter I don’t think it’s unlikely that the A333 will make it to Denver.

mcg · Thu Feb 10, 2022 6:53 pm

ben7x wrote:
mcg wrote:
I've got a flight booked on LH DEN - FRA in early May. Now it shows the flight operated by a Airbus 333, I'm curious as to the probability that the flight is actually operated by an Airbus 333, what is the chance that the equipment changes? I know it's all speculation, but I really hope it turns out to be the 333. thanks in advance for any info.

The flights to Austin were also operated by an A333 and as it’s winter I don’t think it’s unlikely that the A333 will make it to Denver.

The thing I'm sort of counting on is that UA is operating DEN - FRA so it would seem LH would want to use it's smallest trans-Atlantic aircraft, which I think is the 333. Fingers crossed.

SQ22 · Sun Feb 13, 2022 7:32 am

columba wrote:
According to the website aerotelegraph LH will have to wait a little bit longer till they receive their first 787

Link to source: Muss Lufthansa noch länger auf ihre Boeing 787 warten?

This reads as if all other 787 customers are affected as well.

mxaxai · Sun Feb 13, 2022 11:27 am

German media are reporting strong demand for European destinations in the upcoming summer vacation season, with LH planning to use the 747 on some flights to PMI ("350 seats" suggests 747-400). https://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/lu ... i-101.html [German]

GOOYfriction36 · Sun Feb 13, 2022 10:02 pm

Seems as if SWISS will get five A359s according to this (usually very reliable) website: https://sites.google.com/view/europeana ... /swr/lxswr
Replacement for A343s? Intended only for a limited period of time or on a longterm basis? Anybody has more info?

ben7x · Mon Feb 14, 2022 9:42 am

GOOYfriction36 wrote:
Seems as if SWISS will get five A359s according to this (usually very reliable) website: https://sites.google.com/view/europeana ... /swr/lxswr
Replacement for A343s? Intended only for a limited period of time or on a longterm basis? Anybody has more info?

This is known for quite some time now (or at least speculated by the website you refer to). Some more insights here:
https://www.aerotelegraph.com/airbus-a3 ... -bei-swiss (German)

PM · Mon Feb 14, 2022 10:39 am

GOOYfriction36 wrote:
Seems as if SWISS will get five A359s according to this (usually very reliable) website: https://sites.google.com/view/europeana ... /swr/lxswr
Replacement for A343s? Intended only for a limited period of time or on a longterm basis? Anybody has more info?

Lufthansa ordered 5 in May last year. Everyone assumes they are for LX.

My assumption is that 5 is only the start. There will be more.

alphairspace · Mon Feb 14, 2022 5:09 pm

Minimum 10. They need to replace 5 A340 in 2025 and 5 A330 in the long term, when the aviation industry recovers.
But let‘s see. According to another forum in german, there will be a press conference on March 3rd. They might inform us about the fleet planning.
https://forum.airliners.de/topic/48591- ... /#comments (Last 3 posts)

ben7x · Mon Feb 14, 2022 7:02 pm

PM wrote:
GOOYfriction36 wrote:
Seems as if SWISS will get five A359s according to this (usually very reliable) website: https://sites.google.com/view/europeana ... /swr/lxswr
Replacement for A343s? Intended only for a limited period of time or on a longterm basis? Anybody has more info?

Lufthansa ordered 5 in May last year. Everyone assumes they are for LX.

My assumption is that 5 is only the start. There will be more.

I think the question is now if there will be more, but when. If LX -for now- just wants to replace the A343, they’ll just need 5 A359. If they want to replace A333 and A343 together, they will need more like 15 to 20 A359.

So the question is: Will their fleet be like this
9 (14) A333
5 A359
12 77W

or like this
15-20 A359
12 77W

PM · Mon Feb 14, 2022 8:32 pm

ben7x wrote:
PM wrote:
GOOYfriction36 wrote:
Seems as if SWISS will get five A359s according to this (usually very reliable) website: https://sites.google.com/view/europeana ... /swr/lxswr
Replacement for A343s? Intended only for a limited period of time or on a longterm basis? Anybody has more info?

Lufthansa ordered 5 in May last year. Everyone assumes they are for LX.

My assumption is that 5 is only the start. There will be more.

I think the question is now if there will be more, but when. If LX -for now- just wants to replace the A343, they’ll just need 5 A359. If they want to replace A333 and A343 together, they will need more like 15 to 20 A359.

So the question is: Will their fleet be like this
9 (14) A333
5 A359
12 77W

or like this
15-20 A359
12 77W

I am Swiss and have done 300+ flights on Swissair / Balair / Crossair / Swiss over the past four decades. I'd like to think that means something. (But it doesn't.)

So , I'm just guessing like everyone. My guess is that the A350 will become the long haul plane of choice for Swiss. I certainly hope so. The sooner the 777s are gone, the better.

FluidFlow · Mon Feb 14, 2022 9:29 pm

PM wrote:
ben7x wrote:
PM wrote:
Lufthansa ordered 5 in May last year. Everyone assumes they are for LX.

My assumption is that 5 is only the start. There will be more.

I think the question is now if there will be more, but when. If LX -for now- just wants to replace the A343, they’ll just need 5 A359. If they want to replace A333 and A343 together, they will need more like 15 to 20 A359.

So the question is: Will their fleet be like this
9 (14) A333
5 A359
12 77W

or like this
15-20 A359
12 77W

I am Swiss and have done 300+ flights on Swissair / Balair / Crossair / Swiss over the past four decades. I'd like to think that means something. (But it doesn't.)

So , I'm just guessing like everyone. My guess is that the A350 will become the long haul plane of choice for Swiss. I certainly hope so. The sooner the 777s are gone, the better.

Over time the 777 will be gone but they are still young. The 77X is too big so whenever 77W will be up for replacement it will be something smaller. If the 350 will go to LX in the very long term they will have a single WB fleet of 350s. With the future of 4 class configuration the 350 makes the most sense. But for the next 10 years the 777 will be around except if LH-Group finds other places for the 777. I dont know where though. Maybe P-F conversions for LH cargo? But that is a stretch

alphairspace · Mon Feb 14, 2022 10:25 pm

I am swiss as well, but i still don‘t get it, why there are talks about the 777 leaving swiss? The chances are higher that swiss buys 737MAX than the 777 leave in the next 10 years. The 77W has the perfect size and is necessary for some routes from Zurich, pre and after pandemic. Especially BKK/LAX/GRU are always well booked. LX will never have a single WB fleet of A350. He‘s just too small. 77W has 340, with the PE, its gonna be somewhere between 310 and 330. The A350 in 4 class configurations won‘t have over 270. its the perfect addition to the A330 with 220 seats and the 77W with over 320. there‘s a huge gap between it and very advantageous because of the limited range of the A333 as talked before somewhere in this Forum.
PM you as a swiss should know it. It has been a huuuge effort to induct the 77W. All the know-how, pilot training, maintenance, investments over the past 5 years. That‘s all money Swiss invested on its own with their yield. Lufthansa didn‘t spend a single cent on the 77W. This will not be thrown away any moment or shifted to Germany.

oldJoe · Tue Feb 15, 2022 1:00 am

alphairspace wrote :
Lufthansa didn‘t spend a single cent on the 77W

If you consider the pricing power of the LH Group over Swiss on it`s own and say a million per frame saved we are talking about 12 million wich is a shiny bit more than your single cent , isn`t it ? Who spent alot of money after the Swissair disaster to bring this airline where it is today ? Yes .........

A359bw · Tue Feb 15, 2022 6:08 am

In my opinion, LX will get up to 10 A350s to replace the five 343s and five 333s.

then lx will have a good fleet

9x 333
10x 359
12x 77w

alphairspace · Tue Feb 15, 2022 7:03 am

oldJoe wrote:
alphairspace wrote :
Lufthansa didn‘t spend a single cent on the 77W

If you consider the pricing power of the LH Group over Swiss on it`s own and say a million per frame saved we are talking about 12 million wich is a shiny bit more than your single cent , isn`t it ? Who spent alot of money after the Swissair disaster to bring this airline where it is today ? Yes .........

That's correct. LH is also the one benefitting the most from the success of LX. That does compensate their investments more than enough and is the result/reward.

zkojq · Tue Feb 15, 2022 9:59 am

Imo the logical course of action was always to get Swiss a fleet of A359 and A35Ks. Configure the 77Ws in a high Y layout and transfer half to Eurowings (for LAS, CUN, VRA, PUJ etc) and the other half to Austrian.

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