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Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2021

Lufthansa Group cancelling 33,000 flights over next 2 month due to omicron

https://twitter.com/alexinair/status/14 ... 00577?s=21

qf789 wrote:

Lufthansa Group cancelling 33,000 flights over next 2 month due to omicron

https://twitter.com/alexinair/status/14 ... 00577?s=21

I wonder if it's mainly intra European routes being cancelled

Happy 2022 to all of you here, just wanted to ask if there is any news on the 787s?

With 33.000 flights being cancelled, did LHG ground some planes or...? Anyone know what markets are most affected? Long-haul or short-haul?

Edelweiss will receive two A320s from Swiss in the summer of 2022. HB-JLS and HB-JLT
These are the two newest CEOs

A359bw wrote:

Edelweiss will receive two A320s from Swiss in the summer of 2022. HB-JLS and HB-JLT
These are the two newest CEOs

Does it make sense for WK to have 1 Winglet A320 in the fleet? JLT has the "sharklets".

What about getting some A330 from LX...? The A340s are heavily utilized at the time, no spares.

hervebkk wrote:

A359bw wrote:

Edelweiss will receive two A320s from Swiss in the summer of 2022. HB-JLS and HB-JLT
These are the two newest CEOs

Does it make sense for WK to have 1 Winglet A320 in the fleet? JLT has the "sharklets".

What about getting some A330 from LX...? The A340s are heavily utilized at the time, no spares.

it doesn't matter. it has no effect on the planning or anything else.

I would also be interested to know what happens with the long haul. The 340 fly at the limit and in the summer still further routes are to be taken up again. So something has to happen soon. Or LX will continue to help out.

A359bw wrote:

Edelweiss will receive two A320s from Swiss in the summer of 2022. HB-JLS and HB-JLT
These are the two newest CEOs

I wonder which seats they will have. Just the same Recaro, but with WK corporate color?
And are there no plans of HB-IH* phase-out anymore?

According to this article, LH threatens to dump all short haul flights and become a long haul only airline unless pilots agree to cost cuts.

https://www.aero.de/news-41590/Lufthans ... recke.html

In my opinion, I am unsure if LH can even be profitable if LH goes 100% long haul. Before Covid, LH could not make a profit on their short haul flights and has been over-reliant on long haul for profits instead. Long haul traffic is way down during the pandemic, and will likely take years to recover to pre-pandemic levels. So I think LH is stuck - short haul loses money and long haul has been hammered by the pandemic.

max999 wrote:

According to this article, LH threatens to dump all short haul flights and become a long haul only airline unless pilots agree to cost cuts.

https://www.aero.de/news-41590/Lufthans ... recke.html

In my opinion, I am unsure if LH can even be profitable if LH goes 100% long haul. Before Covid, LH could not make a profit on their short haul flights and has been over-reliant on long haul for profits instead. Long haul traffic is way down during the pandemic, and will likely take years to recover to pre-pandemic levels. So I think LH is stuck - short haul loses money and long haul has been hammered by the pandemic.

That’s a very massive and unnecessary threat.

max999 wrote:

According to this article, LH threatens to dump all short haul flights and become a long haul only airline unless pilots agree to cost cuts.

https://www.aero.de/news-41590/Lufthans ... recke.html

In my opinion, I am unsure if LH can even be profitable if LH goes 100% long haul. Before Covid, LH could not make a profit on their short haul flights and has been over-reliant on long haul for profits instead. Long haul traffic is way down during the pandemic, and will likely take years to recover to pre-pandemic levels. So I think LH is stuck - short haul loses money and long haul has been hammered by the pandemic.

You misunderstood the threat. It’s about moving the short haul flying to other subsidiaries.

OS has ended A319 ops.
7 former OS birds are being transferred to LH CityLine

https://www.airlinerwatch.com/2022/01/a ... irbus.html

I am confused..Why OS doesn't need smaller Airbus jets and LH needs more?

Opus99 wrote:

That’s a very massive and unnecessary threat.

I'm sure that they mean LH mainline only. Short haul feeders would be transferred to Cityline or EW branded as LH to achieve lower wages.

marcogr12 wrote:

I am confused..Why OS doesn't need smaller Airbus jets and LH needs more?

My guess is that the E95 does the job and it's the right fit, right between the Q400 and the A319 ... both models that OS has now retired.

DUSZRH wrote:

max999 wrote:

According to this article, LH threatens to dump all short haul flights and become a long haul only airline unless pilots agree to cost cuts.

https://www.aero.de/news-41590/Lufthans ... recke.html

In my opinion, I am unsure if LH can even be profitable if LH goes 100% long haul. Before Covid, LH could not make a profit on their short haul flights and has been over-reliant on long haul for profits instead. Long haul traffic is way down during the pandemic, and will likely take years to recover to pre-pandemic levels. So I think LH is stuck - short haul loses money and long haul has been hammered by the pandemic.

You misunderstood the threat. It’s about moving the short haul flying to other subsidiaries.

If LH does this, it will have a huge impact on thousands of pilots and flight attendants. Many would be laid off and forced to accept lower pay at the other subsidiaries.

max999 wrote:

DUSZRH wrote:

max999 wrote:

According to this article, LH threatens to dump all short haul flights and become a long haul only airline unless pilots agree to cost cuts.

https://www.aero.de/news-41590/Lufthans ... recke.html

In my opinion, I am unsure if LH can even be profitable if LH goes 100% long haul. Before Covid, LH could not make a profit on their short haul flights and has been over-reliant on long haul for profits instead. Long haul traffic is way down during the pandemic, and will likely take years to recover to pre-pandemic levels. So I think LH is stuck - short haul loses money and long haul has been hammered by the pandemic.

You misunderstood the threat. It’s about moving the short haul flying to other subsidiaries.

If LH does this, it will have a huge impact on thousands of pilots and flight attendants. Many would be laid off and forced to accept lower pay at the other subsidiaries.

It's an empty threat. Lufthansa doesn't have the means to do it. Who will take over their short-haul flying? Eurowings which is an absolute mess and which struggled with their own business?

Talking of all this, how does CityLine fit into all of this? Are they owned by LH but do their crew have different contracts and lower pay? I noticed they got OS' A319s so this could be one way for Lufthansa mainline to lower costs and silence protesters in the future.

Blerg wrote:

max999 wrote:

DUSZRH wrote:

You misunderstood the threat. It’s about moving the short haul flying to other subsidiaries.

If LH does this, it will have a huge impact on thousands of pilots and flight attendants. Many would be laid off and forced to accept lower pay at the other subsidiaries.

It's an empty threat. Lufthansa doesn't have the means to do it. Who will take over their short-haul flying? Eurowings which is an absolute mess and which struggled with their own business?

Talking of all this, how does CityLine fit into all of this? Are they owned by LH but do their crew have different contracts and lower pay? I noticed they got OS' A319s so this could be one way for Lufthansa mainline to lower costs and silence protesters in the future.

The threat is not that empty. It wouldn’t happen all at once for obvious reasons. Nonetheless, they reduced flying in total, while increasing flying at the lower cost units. At EW/4U they increased the number of planes operated by EW, while closing down all of 4U (which is staffed by mainline pilots). They had a small reduction in Cargo with the MD11 leaving. The E195s at city line are leaving (ejets are flown by mainline pilots with city line CC). Some flying moved to 4Y from mainline.

They plan to be 10-15% smaller than before C19, while the lower cost units are growing or stable in size. It means that mainline pilots basically lost 20-25% of flying already (out of approx 325 planes staffed by them +80 at EW (excl 4U) and ~50 at CL and EN, a reduction would be 46 to 70 planes, plus an additional 10 which went to 4Y). It’s because all reductions are at mainline, so the impact is much stronger than 10-15%.

The negotiations will be very interesting. From what I have heard Lufthansa has offered/threatened different things: Mandatory part-time of the mentioned 75-80% (in line with the reduction in flying), a reduction of 15-20% in casm (pay decrease/productivity increase), layoff of 20-25% of pilots (600+). Notices would be due end of March for end of June.

DUSZRH wrote:

Blerg wrote:

max999 wrote:

If LH does this, it will have a huge impact on thousands of pilots and flight attendants. Many would be laid off and forced to accept lower pay at the other subsidiaries.

It's an empty threat. Lufthansa doesn't have the means to do it. Who will take over their short-haul flying? Eurowings which is an absolute mess and which struggled with their own business?

Talking of all this, how does CityLine fit into all of this? Are they owned by LH but do their crew have different contracts and lower pay? I noticed they got OS' A319s so this could be one way for Lufthansa mainline to lower costs and silence protesters in the future.

The threat is not that empty. It wouldn’t happen all at once for obvious reasons. Nonetheless, they reduced flying in total, while increasing flying at the lower cost units. At EW/4U they increased the number of planes operated by EW, while closing down all of 4U (which is staffed by mainline pilots). They had a small reduction in Cargo with the MD11 leaving. The E195s at city line are leaving (ejets are flown by mainline pilots with city line CC). Some flying moved to 4Y from mainline.

They plan to be 10-15% smaller than before C19, while the lower cost units are growing or stable in size. It means that mainline pilots basically lost 20-25% of flying already (out of approx 325 planes staffed by them +80 at EW (excl 4U) and ~50 at CL and EN, a reduction would be 46 to 70 planes, plus an additional 10 which went to 4Y). It’s because all reductions are at mainline, so the impact is much stronger than 10-15%.

The negotiations will be very interesting. From what I have heard Lufthansa has offered/threatened different things: Mandatory part-time of the mentioned 75-80% (in line with the reduction in flying), a reduction of 15-20% in casm (pay decrease/productivity increase), layoff of 20-25% of pilots (600+). Notices would be due end of March for end of June.

I guess we will have to see how the employees react to all this. Knowing them, I suppose they are not just going to sit around while LH takes away their 'privileges.' Also I wonder if all of these cuts would have happened if covid didn't happen. I wonder if these worked as a catalyst in the downsizing process.

Both remaining E195s in CL fleet are to leave fleet this month - and though not scheduled to EN...

A321Lufthansa wrote:

Both remaining E195s in CL fleet are to leave fleet this month - and though not scheduled to EN...

Allegedly, it is not yet certain to which airline they will go. But I do not think EN is unlikely

Does anyone know where the A340-600 is due to fly to now this month and Feb? It's been removed from IAD and JFK routes as per the Lufthansa website

When is the first repaint of ex-OS A319 scheduled? How long will they remain grounded before finally entering service at CLH?

Where is the best/most accurate source for LH-Group and subsidiary fleets? Be interesting to see a whole group summary, and group orders

smi0006 wrote:

Where is the best/most accurate source for LH-Group and subsidiary fleets? Be interesting to see a whole group summary, and group orders

https://sites.google.com/view/europeana ... authuser=0

Has all the LH Group airlines' fleet

777luver wrote:

smi0006 wrote:

Where is the best/most accurate source for LH-Group and subsidiary fleets? Be interesting to see a whole group summary, and group orders

https://sites.google.com/view/europeana ... authuser=0

Has all the LH Group airlines' fleet

Amazing thank you so much!

Looking at that website, does it mean CL will retire E95 but keep the E90? I guess it makes sense since they are adding A319s.

Brussels wants to expand its short- and medium-haul fleet again in the summer 2022. They realized that it is too small with 30 aircraft of the A320 family and wants to operate a total fleet of more than 39 aircraft again in the summer. 9x 333 / 30+X A32F

Blerg wrote:

Looking at that website, does it mean CL will retire E95 but keep the E90? I guess it makes sense since they are adding A319s.

I believe they need those for London City.

P.S.
As asked above any news on the Dreamliner?

columba wrote:

Blerg wrote:

Looking at that website, does it mean CL will retire E95 but keep the E90? I guess it makes sense since they are adding A319s.

P.S.
As asked above any news on the Dreamliner?

Boeing sources say that no deliveries will take place before april/mail

columba wrote:

Blerg wrote:

Looking at that website, does it mean CL will retire E95 but keep the E90? I guess it makes sense since they are adding A319s.

I believe they need those for London City.

P.S.
As asked above any news on the Dreamliner?

Doesn’t mean they couldn’t be operated by EN

The only two options for the two 95s are EN and OS.

Is there any clarity on who will operate the ex-Cityline A340 routes? Eurowings Discover or LH mainline by default, or on a case-by-case basis? Specifically I'd like to know about FRA-MAA, which has been suspended for several months and keeps getting pushed back every time the schedule rolls over.

CPS001 wrote:

Is there any clarity on who will operate the ex-Cityline A340 routes? Eurowings Discover or LH mainline by default, or on a case-by-case basis? Specifically I'd like to know about FRA-MAA, which has been suspended for several months and keeps getting pushed back every time the schedule rolls over.

It’s case-by-case. Discover operates more like tourist-heavy routes and routes with competition by Condor. The rest is LH. Jump operated actually everything which was too cheap for LH.
But MAA will definitely not be operated by Discover.

777luver wrote:

smi0006 wrote:

Where is the best/most accurate source for LH-Group and subsidiary fleets? Be interesting to see a whole group summary, and group orders

https://sites.google.com/view/europeana ... authuser=0

Has all the LH Group airlines' fleet

Interesting to see ITA Airways on the Lufthansa Group fleet link you shared above. Wasn't aware that any deal had been done here.

NZ321 wrote:

777luver wrote:

smi0006 wrote:

Where is the best/most accurate source for LH-Group and subsidiary fleets? Be interesting to see a whole group summary, and group orders

https://sites.google.com/view/europeana ... authuser=0

Has all the LH Group airlines' fleet

Interesting to see ITA Airways on the Lufthansa Group fleet link you shared above. Wasn't aware that any deal had been done here.

It hasn’t. It’s just wishful thinking on the part of that page owner.

jbs2886 wrote:

NZ321 wrote:

777luver wrote:

https://sites.google.com/view/europeana ... authuser=0

Has all the LH Group airlines' fleet

Interesting to see ITA Airways on the Lufthansa Group fleet link you shared above. Wasn't aware that any deal had been done here.

It hasn’t. It’s just wishful thinking on the part of that page owner.

Not at all. I think it´s their intention to eventually create a list for most European airlines. If you notice there are already Condor and SAS. Others should follow.
And it´s a great project. A constatly updated directory of all major European fleets. An aviation geek paradise

I love the details like color schemes and interior configurations.

The transfer of A320s D-AIZQ - V to LH is cancelled.

A321Lufthansa wrote:

The transfer of A320s D-AIZQ - V to LH is cancelled.

More info on that? Due to more expected demand in the summer?

nipkow wrote:

A321Lufthansa wrote:

The transfer of A320s D-AIZQ - V to LH is cancelled.

More info on that? Due to more expected demand in the summer?

Maybe. D-AIZQ is expected to have just a paint refreshment this month. Also A321s from LH should come a bit later according to airliners.de forum.

At the moment, there are probably some short-term nimble movements that were different in the planning so far.

Apparently the 333 -KG does not change to LH as planned but to 4Y.

At LX, IJL and IJQ will be reactivated and leave the fleet at a later date.

I think this is due to the change of the two A320 to WK.

LH ordered additional Premium Eco seats for 28 aircraft: 19 LH 748 and 9 LX A330.
https://www.aerotelegraph.com/lufthansa ... 30-von-zim (German)
But there must have been already an earlier order because LX just started adding PE on their 777. So the types which seem to receive the new PE (for now) are:
LH 748
LX A330 and 777
+ future A350, 777X and 787

Does anyone have further information?

So it should be clear that swiss will permanently part with 5 A330-300s

My tip: These will go to Austrian, as well as the four newest A330s from Lufthansa.

LH will get all 25 787 and the remaining A330-300 from Lufthansa will go to 4Y

The A340-600s are returning! People said they would never return to LH, but it's finally happening!

D-AIHT flew MLA-FRA after post storage work.

D-AIHV flew TEV-MLA to begin post storage work.

ben7x wrote:

LH ordered additional Premium Eco seats for 28 aircraft: 19 LH 748 and 9 LX A330.
https://www.aerotelegraph.com/lufthansa ... 30-von-zim (German)
But there must have been already an earlier order because LX just started adding PE on their 777. So the types which seem to receive the new PE (for now) are:
LH 748
LX A330 and 777
+ future A350, 777X and 787

Does anyone have further information?

And that’s what it looks like:

zkojq wrote:

The A340-600s are returning! People said they would never return to LH, but it's finally happening!

D-AIHT flew MLA-FRA after post storage work.

D-AIHV flew TEV-MLA to begin post storage work.

Supposedly 5 will be returning to service and stay in the fleet until the end of 2023. First routes will be flown from FRA and later this summer they’ll all be shifted to MUC as LH cannot offer any first class flights from MUC at the moment. They‘ll finally be replaced when the A350 with first class cabin will be delivered.

What happened to the rumor that Lufthansa wants to buy/lease the following 787s for Austrian?

63347 / 955 / 787-9 / ex Norwegian UK /
63348 / 971 / 787-9 / ex Norwegian Air Sweden / N1014X
63349 / 983 / 787-9 / ex Norwegian Air Sweden / N1002R
63350 / 1011 / 787-9 / ex Norwegian Air Sweden / N1002K

A359bw wrote:

So it should be clear that swiss will permanently part with 5 A330-300s

Not necessarily. That's more like a commitment to atleast 9 A330s. What happens to the other 5 A330s is yet to be determined depending on the pandemic.

A359bw wrote:

What happened to the rumor that Lufthansa wants to buy/lease the following 787s for Austrian?

63347 / 955 / 787-9 / ex Norwegian UK /
63348 / 971 / 787-9 / ex Norwegian Air Sweden / N1014X
63349 / 983 / 787-9 / ex Norwegian Air Sweden / N1002R
63350 / 1011 / 787-9 / ex Norwegian Air Sweden / N1002K

If OS can‘t even get NEOs, why should they get new 787?
Ever wondered how expensive it is to lease a 787-9?
Leasingrate per month is 800‘000$. Can‘t see them paying for this..