Minneapolis Aviation Thread - 2022

N292UX · Fri Dec 31, 2021 4:24 pm

Welcome to the Minneapolis Aviation Thread for 2022.

Continue discussions from the 2021 thread:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1456153

N292UX · Fri Dec 31, 2021 4:28 pm

Predictions for 2022:
-DL adds MSP-GSP
-SY adds several routes, including MSP-ORF/PNS/HUX/ABQ
-WN drops MSP-AUS
-EI potentially announces a return to MSP in 2022

LCDFlight · Fri Dec 31, 2021 9:08 pm

It looked like MSP-LHR, MSP-HND and MSP-ICN will be added back in late 2022.

sunking737 · Fri Dec 31, 2021 9:13 pm

Sun Country has 2 more 737-800 joining the fleet in 1 Q 2022. could be has many as 8, by 4Q 2022

jplatts · Fri Dec 31, 2021 9:22 pm

WN is going to be completely dropping MSP-DAL/HOU nonstop service (and some other nonstop routes) on 6/3/2022, but WN is facing a fleet shortage due to delays in getting the 737 MAX 7 into service.

Both DFW and IAH will still have nonstop service on multiple airlines after WN discontinues MSP-DAL/HOU nonstop service, with AA, DL, and SY all still serving DFW nonstop from MSP and with DL, UA, and SY all serving IAH nonstop from MSP.

SteveXC500 · Sat Jan 01, 2022 10:35 pm

jplatts wrote:
WN is going to be completely dropping MSP-DAL/HOU nonstop service (and some other nonstop routes) on 6/3/2022, but WN is facing a fleet shortage due to delays in getting the 737 MAX 7 into service.

Both DFW and IAH will still have nonstop service on multiple airlines after WN discontinues MSP-DAL/HOU nonstop service, with AA, DL, and SY all still serving DFW nonstop from MSP and with DL, UA, and SY all serving IAH nonstop from MSP.

I think MSP-AUS will stay through 2022 given HOU and DAL are being dropped. Will they return in 23 would be the question. WN is somewhat abandoning MSP but if fleet issues are the main reason, we could see them build back into the future.

NK seems to be dying off slowly here as well. I could see them going away too.

wjcandee · Sat Jan 01, 2022 10:40 pm

Gonna be MINUS 20 DEGREES FAHRENHEIT tonight in MSP. Colder than that with the wind chill. Wow. Stay safe out there, folks!

sunking737 · Sat Jan 01, 2022 10:46 pm

Wind Chills have been near -35 all day....We are a hardy bunch.....

WA707atMSP · Sun Jan 02, 2022 1:27 pm

Two predictions from me:

1. Westjet and / or Westjet Encore begin serving MSP in 2022 if Canada and the US loosen their Covid travel restrictions

2. SY's Amazon operation adds several more 737s.

IceCream · Wed Jan 05, 2022 9:34 pm

WA707atMSP wrote:
Two predictions from me:

1. Westjet and / or Westjet Encore begin serving MSP in 2022 if Canada and the US loosen their Covid travel restrictions

2. SY's Amazon operation adds several more 737s.

Where would WS serve MSP from? It seems much more suited for DL to keep all the MSP-Canada flights considering MSP is their hub.

WS7M8 · Fri Jan 07, 2022 3:27 am

IceCream wrote:
WA707atMSP wrote:
Two predictions from me:

1. Westjet and / or Westjet Encore begin serving MSP in 2022 if Canada and the US loosen their Covid travel restrictions

2. SY's Amazon operation adds several more 737s.

Where would WS serve MSP from? It seems much more suited for DL to keep all the MSP-Canada flights considering MSP is their hub.

Agree.

Possibly MSP - YWG / YQR / YXE could be covered with an Encore Q400. I seem to recall in the last couple years that DL pulled out of one of the Saskatchewan destinations.

I don't really see the demand for that kind of route until at least 2023.

MesabaF27 · Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:54 am

WN has been running between 11-14 departures a day out of Minny for a few months now, with some higher days over the holidays. Current planned schedule has MSP up to either side of 21 departures a day in June, which was around where things were pre-COVID, so hopefully that is a good sign!

CIDFlyer · Fri Jan 07, 2022 12:46 pm

How is G4 doing in MSP? Has anyone heard?

SteveXC500 · Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:32 pm

MesabaF27 wrote:
WN has been running between 11-14 departures a day out of Minny for a few months now, with some higher days over the holidays. Current planned schedule has MSP up to either side of 21 departures a day in June, which was around where things were pre-COVID, so hopefully that is a good sign!

It’s reasonable, IMO. They cut HOU and DAL though.
Cities will include, AUS, PHX (cut to less than daily in summer which they don’t usually do), DEN, MDW, STL, BWI, BNA.

So just 7 cities. Half of those flights, or more, will be DEN and MDW.

I’m still floored they couldn’t make LAS work year round, pre-Covid, and even keep the other Texas cities. Did OAK do that poorly too?

Antoli0794 · Sat Jan 08, 2022 5:58 pm

Looks like it wasn’t MSP for the new Virgin Atlantic route
https://onemileatatime.com/news/virgin- ... n-flights/

usflyer msp · Wed Mar 02, 2022 8:14 am

I just noticed that AC is launching MSP-YUL starting June 2nd. . It doesn't seem to have been announced anywhere but it is in the schedule - a 1x daily CR9. I guess that is why AC has their own gate now (E3) instead of sharing with UA as they've done for the last 25 years. UA still seems to be doing their ground handling however.

SteveXC500 · Wed Mar 02, 2022 3:57 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
I just noticed that AC is launching MSP-YUL starting June 2nd. . It doesn't seem to have been announced anywhere but it is in the schedule - a 1x daily CR9. I guess that is why AC has their own gate now (E3) instead of sharing with UA as they've done for the last 25 years. UA still seems to be doing their ground handling however.

Announced a couple weeks ago, somewhat silently by AC. YYZ is "supposed" to go up to 3x daily in summer as well.

Antoli0794 · Wed Mar 02, 2022 7:52 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
I just noticed that AC is launching MSP-YUL starting June 2nd. . It doesn't seem to have been announced anywhere but it is in the schedule - a 1x daily CR9. I guess that is why AC has their own gate now (E3) instead of sharing with UA as they've done for the last 25 years. UA still seems to be doing their ground handling however.

Looks like AC will be the sole carrier on that route.

SANMSP · Thu Apr 14, 2022 3:12 pm

Quick thread bump that takeoffs and landings are on RWY 22 this morning. Great spotting opportunity from the viewing area next to the FedEx ramp!

Antoli0794 · Thu Jun 02, 2022 2:55 am

https://www.internationalairportreview. ... l-airport/

WA707atMSP · Mon Jul 25, 2022 6:57 pm

The Minneapolis Star Tribune had a grim article yesterday about how airline employees are afraid to take the light rail line between Terminal 1 and Terminal 2 at MSP, due to unsanitary trains, homeless passengers, and concerns about harassment.

Here's a link:

https://www.startribune.com/msp-airport ... 600192556/

The article didn't say it, but the problems aren't just on the part of the light rail line that goes between terminals; it affects the entire line from downtown Minneapolis to the Mall of America.

Pre-George Floyd, if I was going to / from MSP during daylight hours, I'd take a bus from my house in the west metro to downtown Minneapolis, then take light rail the rest of the way. Now, however, because both the light rail stations and the trains themselves are so dangerous, I'll either take Uber or use Park and Fly, even though both Uber and Park and fly are far more expensive than light rail.

Elementalism · Mon Jul 25, 2022 7:27 pm

I have never felt safe on the light rail during the night. I take an uber now even during the day if for pleasure. If work is paying I park right at the terminal. Shame what is happening to Minneapolis.

Antoli0794 · Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:59 am

Since this thread has been quiet, How important is DL MSP maintenance base?

DakotaFlyer · Thu Aug 18, 2022 5:26 am

I was looking at holiday flights and discovered there will be a MSP<->BRD<->BJI flight every day. First time I've noticed that happening. I wonder if more tag flights will such as HIB/INL are in the future?

usflyer msp · Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:30 pm

WA707atMSP wrote:
The Minneapolis Star Tribune had a grim article yesterday about how airline employees are afraid to take the light rail line between Terminal 1 and Terminal 2 at MSP, due to unsanitary trains, homeless passengers, and concerns about harassment.

Here's a link:

https://www.startribune.com/msp-airport ... 600192556/

The article didn't say it, but the problems aren't just on the part of the light rail line that goes between terminals; it affects the entire line from downtown Minneapolis to the Mall of America.

Pre-George Floyd, if I was going to / from MSP during daylight hours, I'd take a bus from my house in the west metro to downtown Minneapolis, then take light rail the rest of the way. Now, however, because both the light rail stations and the trains themselves are so dangerous, I'll either take Uber or use Park and Fly, even though both Uber and Park and fly are far more expensive than light rail.

IMHO, the employees are being drama queens. They just want to park at T1 because it is much more convenient and are trying to use LRT as a reason. Some of the complaints are ridiculous - like the lady complaining about someone on public transportation looking at her. I catch the LRT between the terminals regularly and while it is far from perfect, these complaints are way overblown - I mean you are on it for 90 seconds.

bomber996 · Thu Aug 18, 2022 10:12 pm

DakotaFlyer wrote:
I was looking at holiday flights and discovered there will be a MSP<->BRD<->BJI flight every day. First time I've noticed that happening. I wonder if more tag flights will such as HIB/INL are in the future?

I would not be surprised at all to see this. You're already seeing it in other EAS routes with the MSP-RHI-IMT-DTW, MSP-ESC-PLN-DTW, and MSP-CIU-APN-DTW routings starting in the fall. OO, who bids these routes under the DL brand, are hurting for pilots badly. These milk runs will be the future of these routes.

Peace :box:

af773atmsp · Thu Aug 18, 2022 10:53 pm

Aer Lingus is no longer shown on the freeway signs listing airlines for Terminal 1. They were still listed on those signs throughout the pandemic even though EI didn't fly here at all in 2020 to present. Last I checked in December of last year their logo was still hanging at the check-in counters, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's gone too. A shame that we only briefly had non-stop service to DUB.

usflyer msp · Thu Aug 18, 2022 11:22 pm

af773atmsp wrote:
Aer Lingus is no longer shown on the freeway signs listing airlines for Terminal 1. They were still listed on those signs throughout the pandemic even though EI didn't fly here at all in 2020 to present. Last I checked in December of last year their logo was still hanging at the check-in counters, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's gone too. A shame that we only briefly had non-stop service to DUB.

When EI dropped MSP in 2020, they said it was permanent. I still think they shall return again someday.

Antoli0794 · Thu Aug 18, 2022 11:33 pm

They spent money upgrading gate D3 to handle the A330 and had incentives as well so maybe they’ll return

A333MSPtoAMS · Thu Aug 18, 2022 11:35 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
af773atmsp wrote:
Aer Lingus is no longer shown on the freeway signs listing airlines for Terminal 1. They were still listed on those signs throughout the pandemic even though EI didn't fly here at all in 2020 to present. Last I checked in December of last year their logo was still hanging at the check-in counters, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's gone too. A shame that we only briefly had non-stop service to DUB.

When EI dropped MSP in 2020, they said it was permanent. I still think they shall return again someday.

I think once they take delivery of the A321XLR then we could see them back again. But that's not until 2024, give or take

SANMSP · Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:07 am

Antoli0794 wrote:
Since this thread has been quiet, How important is DL MSP maintenance base?

Is there any fleet type they don't do maintenance on, and how does their work compare to the non-ATL maintenance bases?

Antoli0794 · Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:47 am

SANMSP wrote:
Antoli0794 wrote:
Since this thread has been quiet, How important is DL MSP maintenance base?

Is there any fleet type they don't do maintenance on, and how does their work compare to the non-ATL maintenance bases?

After ATL, is it the second largest?

UppinhereP · Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:51 am

Antoli0794 wrote:
SANMSP wrote:
Antoli0794 wrote:
Since this thread has been quiet, How important is DL MSP maintenance base?

Is there any fleet type they don't do maintenance on, and how does their work compare to the non-ATL maintenance bases?

After ATL, is it the second largest?

Yes... Well DL had a bunch of planes in the maintenance hangar right out front of the Springhill Suites... Plus planes parked out front of the hanger... But, this was last June during Covid 2021... MSP is a huge Maintenance Base outside of ATL, especially for Airbus aircraft... But things could have changed... MSP has always been a bigger Maintenance Factily than DTW during the NWA era..

Try non-reving from ATL to MSP... Nightmare!!! Buy a ticket...
Lol

And I'm not an Aviation Employee...

Antoli0794 · Fri Aug 19, 2022 2:14 am

UppinhereP wrote:
Antoli0794 wrote:
SANMSP wrote:

Is there any fleet type they don't do maintenance on, and how does their work compare to the non-ATL maintenance bases?

After ATL, is it the second largest?

Yes... Well DL had a bunch of planes in the maintenance hangar right out front of the Springhill Suites... Plus planes parked out front of the hanger... But, this was last June during Covid 2021... MSP is a huge Maintenance Base outside of ATL, especially for Airbus aircraft... But things could have changed... MSP has always been a bigger Maintenance Factily than DTW during the NWA era..

Try non-reving from ATL to MSP... Nightmare!!! Buy a ticket...
Lol

And I'm not an Aviation Employee...

Thanks for your input. Just asking since it’s always the talk of passenger traffic and never really maintenance wise with all the hubs.

UppinhereP · Fri Aug 19, 2022 2:56 am

Antoli0794 wrote:
UppinhereP wrote:
Antoli0794 wrote:

After ATL, is it the second largest?

Yes... Well DL had a bunch of planes in the maintenance hangar right out front of the Springhill Suites... Plus planes parked out front of the hanger... But, this was last June during Covid 2021... MSP is a huge Maintenance Base outside of ATL, especially for Airbus aircraft... But things could have changed... MSP has always been a bigger Maintenance Factily than DTW during the NWA era..

Try non-reving from ATL to MSP... Nightmare!!! Buy a ticket...
Lol

And I'm not an Aviation Employee...

Thanks for your input. Just asking since it’s always the talk of passenger traffic and never really maintenance wise with all the hubs.

Agreed, wish I knew how to post picks, cause I would... Love it and specifically stayed there to see the planes.. But, I'm sure someone here in Maintenance can chime in or from ATL...???

nwadeicer · Fri Aug 19, 2022 5:06 am

usflyer msp wrote:
WA707atMSP wrote:
The Minneapolis Star Tribune had a grim article yesterday about how airline employees are afraid to take the light rail line between Terminal 1 and Terminal 2 at MSP, due to unsanitary trains, homeless passengers, and concerns about harassment.

Here's a link:

https://www.startribune.com/msp-airport ... 600192556/

The article didn't say it, but the problems aren't just on the part of the light rail line that goes between terminals; it affects the entire line from downtown Minneapolis to the Mall of America.

Pre-George Floyd, if I was going to / from MSP during daylight hours, I'd take a bus from my house in the west metro to downtown Minneapolis, then take light rail the rest of the way. Now, however, because both the light rail stations and the trains themselves are so dangerous, I'll either take Uber or use Park and Fly, even though both Uber and Park and fly are far more expensive than light rail.

IMHO, the employees are being drama queens. They just want to park at T1 because it is much more convenient and are trying to use LRT as a reason. Some of the complaints are ridiculous - like the lady complaining about someone on public transportation looking at her. I catch the LRT between the terminals regularly and while it is far from perfect, these complaints are way overblown - I mean you are on it for 90 seconds.

I agree completely. I now park at Fort Snelling, saving my back from the employee shuttle bus... My five days a week at 11:00 pm light rail trip from terminal 1 to Ft. Snelling has always been uneventful, never had an issue. Never had an issue either with the one block walk to my car. It was nice to be able to park in the silver lot but those days are gone, quit crying about it.

nwadeicer · Fri Aug 19, 2022 5:08 am

UppinhereP wrote:
Antoli0794 wrote:
UppinhereP wrote:

Yes... Well DL had a bunch of planes in the maintenance hangar right out front of the Springhill Suites... Plus planes parked out front of the hanger... But, this was last June during Covid 2021... MSP is a huge Maintenance Base outside of ATL, especially for Airbus aircraft... But things could have changed... MSP has always been a bigger Maintenance Factily than DTW during the NWA era..

Try non-reving from ATL to MSP... Nightmare!!! Buy a ticket...
Lol

And I'm not an Aviation Employee...

Thanks for your input. Just asking since it’s always the talk of passenger traffic and never really maintenance wise with all the hubs.

Agreed, wish I knew how to post picks, cause I would... Love it and specifically stayed there to see the planes.. But, I'm sure someone here in Maintenance can chime in or from ATL...???

A lot of those planes are parked there, as well at the east base next to the hotel on the airport grounds, due to gate availability. Just a temporary thing.

nwadeicer · Fri Aug 19, 2022 5:09 am

I can tell you that MSP maintenance has been hit just as hard as ATL and other hubs with lack of staffing due to early retirements. Really hard.

UppinhereP · Sat Aug 20, 2022 2:50 am

nwadeicer wrote:
I can tell you that MSP maintenance has been hit just as hard as ATL and other hubs with lack of staffing due to early retirements. Really hard.

Thank you for the insight!!!

Too my understanding from the Fleet Thread, the planes coming out of MX from Asia/ Factory are shuffled between ATL, MSP, DTW depending on Airfact type +Support...???

UppinhereP · Sat Aug 20, 2022 3:13 am

Antoli0794 wrote:
UppinhereP wrote:
Antoli0794 wrote:

After ATL, is it the second largest?

Yes... Well DL had a bunch of planes in the maintenance hangar right out front of the Springhill Suites... Plus planes parked out front of the hanger... But, this was last June during Covid 2021... MSP is a huge Maintenance Base outside of ATL, especially for Airbus aircraft... But things could have changed... MSP has always been a bigger Maintenance Factily than DTW during the NWA era..

Try non-reving from ATL to MSP... Nightmare!!! Buy a ticket...
Lol

And I'm not an Aviation Employee...

Thanks for your input. Just asking since it’s always the talk of passenger traffic and never really maintenance wise with all the hubs.

No problem at all... I'm here to learn and keep up with the Industry... COVID has changed a lot... I can just tell you that Spare Parts ( Airplane) shipping from the NW days mainly came from MSP back then for out stations (DCA)... Now that was many moons ago... There was a lot of Maintenance kept in MSP, to keep the Merger going and to save jobs etc... MSP was always been instrumental in MX, now... With the merger etc, I'm sure others on here know better than my Ole self... I'm fairly sure that the "Mother Ship = ATL" has more spate parts available then the system will ship them from other HUBS to expedite since being MRO...

(Back in the NW days, they had Hangar #4 at DCA and parked two Airbuses in there and did "C" and "D" checks over night but wasn't limited the DC9, 757 etc)...

WA707atMSP · Fri Sep 23, 2022 11:26 pm

Not Minneapolis news, but news about another Minnesota airport: A Star Tribune article about Digi Key's expansion says the airport at Thief River Falls is planning an 800 foot long runway extension, to allow larger cargo aircraft to serve the airport.

TVF's main runway is 6,504 feet long, so an extension would make the runway 7,300 feet long.

The longer runway would also benefit Arctic Cat, another big employer in TVF.

It still puzzles me that DL has not tried to sign an interline agreement with Denver Air Connection, to make connections between DAC's TVF-MSP flights and DL's flights from MSP easier.

flyfresno · Sat Sep 24, 2022 3:05 pm

According to the Rochester (MN) facebook page, Delta will upguage to mainline (717) service between MSP-RST in November. However, this also means the loss of the late afternoon MSP turn, so there will be just two frequencies per day on the route going forward (one 717, one RJ).

Antoli0794 · Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:58 am

What routes DL are still missing from MSP? O&D is increasing but connecting traffic is decreasing.

flyfresno · Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:58 pm

Antoli0794 wrote:
What routes DL are still missing from MSP? O&D is increasing but connecting traffic is decreasing.

FAT

SteveXC500 · Mon Sep 26, 2022 9:20 pm

Antoli0794 wrote:
What routes DL are still missing from MSP? O&D is increasing but connecting traffic is decreasing.

MSP has been one of the slower airports in terms of growth. Labor Day weekend was still 14% lower than 2019, while many US airports were seeing at or above 2019 for the same holiday weekend.

Amfleet82 · Tue Sep 27, 2022 12:11 am

We’re still missing a lot of our former NWA secondary Michigan routes and secondary NY routes. MBS, ALB, BUF, etc

International has bounced back, Asia flying restarts next month.

Adam

Amfleet82 · Tue Sep 27, 2022 9:07 am

Amfleet82 wrote:
We’re still missing a lot of our former NWA secondary Michigan routes and secondary NY routes. MBS, ALB, BUF, etc. Also missing are alot of secondary Canadian routes like Regina/ Saskatoon.

International has bounced back, Asia flying restarts next month. We’re stilling Aer Lingus, but that seems more like an airframe shortage versus lack of demand.

Adam

usflyer msp · Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:29 pm

It is in interesting that the Vikings chartered VS 789's instead of DL widebodies for their trip to London. The support staff left yesterday on G-VOOH and the team leaves today.

WA707atMSP · Fri Sep 30, 2022 1:17 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
It is in interesting that the Vikings chartered VS 789's instead of DL widebodies for their trip to London. The support staff left yesterday on G-VOOH and the team leaves today.

Another thread says that VS handles most NFL flights to / from LHR. The Saints flew directly from CLT to LHR on a VS A35K after last weekend's game, to have extra time to recover from jet lag.

A333MSPtoAMS · Sun Oct 02, 2022 1:50 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
It is in interesting that the Vikings chartered VS 789's instead of DL widebodies for their trip to London. The support staff left yesterday on G-VOOH and the team leaves today.

The B789 was not for the team itself, they also had a A35K that flew the Vikings, though this fight sent to Stansted she not Heathrow.

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