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yzfElite
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Re: The WestJet Thread - 2022

Sat May 14, 2022 2:48 pm

casperCA wrote:
CrewBunk wrote:
cirrusdragoon wrote:

Air Canada overbooks yes, like every other legacy.


Only in Economy. Premium Economy and Business are never (intentionally) overbooked. With three A320s a day, YYZ-YQR and three A220s a day YYZ-YXE, not to mention countless connections through YWG it’s hard to fathom these passengers could not be accommodated on Air Canada.


Having lived in YXE for 12 years before moving to the coast I know it sounds weird but certain times of the year it is impossible to find a seat into either YXE or YQR. Spring break in SK is a good example. There are a few weeks in January and February where every flight can be full for days at a time. The rest of the year most of the time there are empty seats on every flight.

You just need an event Spring Break or some large Convention etc happening for to fill up. Air Canada and WestJet do a crappy job of adjusting to these events.

Delta use to do better. The Delta twice daily YXE flight would normally be a small regional jet. Typically a larger CRJ or E-75. However come hunting season of peek times it would be swapped out for a 757 or A320. WS and AC did not do scale like that.


I guess they preferred to take the yield. YZF is like that too, there are times where it's nearly impossible to get seat on AC booking a week out unless you're willing to book a full fare latitude fare (and presumably overbooking the flight).
 
Whiteguy
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Re: The WestJet Thread - 2022

Sat May 14, 2022 3:34 pm

CrewBunk wrote:
cirrusdragoon wrote:

Air Canada overbooks yes, like every other legacy.


Only in Economy. Premium Economy and Business are never (intentionally) overbooked. With three A320s a day, YYZ-YQR and three A220s a day YYZ-YXE, not to mention countless connections through YWG it’s hard to fathom these passengers could not be accommodated on Air Canada.


There may be 3 A320s now for the summer sked, not sure there were back in April prior to sked change.
 
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CrewBunk
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Re: The WestJet Thread - 2022

Sat May 14, 2022 4:15 pm

Whiteguy wrote:
There may be 3 A320s now for the summer sked, not sure there were back in April prior to sked change.

You mean, as in two/three weeks ago? The sked changed in March for the shoulder season. Across summer though, smaller equipment is used. Either A320/A220/CRJ900 or A319/A320/CRJ900 depending on the day of the week/month.

As noted above, they step up during high season, which is not necessarily summer. YYZ-YQR has always been strong for AC. I remember when they flew 767-200s on the route. Hell, I’m old enough to remember they flew a DC-8-60 on the route too!
 
Whiteguy
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Re: The WestJet Thread - 2022

Sat May 14, 2022 5:56 pm

CrewBunk wrote:
Whiteguy wrote:
There may be 3 A320s now for the summer sked, not sure there were back in April prior to sked change.

You mean, as in two/three weeks ago? The sked changed in March for the shoulder season. Across summer though, smaller equipment is used. Either A320/A220/CRJ900 or A319/A320/CRJ900 depending on the day of the week/month.

As noted above, they step up during high season, which is not necessarily summer. YYZ-YQR has always been strong for AC. I remember when they flew 767-200s on the route. Hell, I’m old enough to remember they flew a DC-8-60 on the route too!


Yeah May 1st sked change, not sure what they were using before….
 
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CrewBunk
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Re: The WestJet Thread - 2022

Sat May 14, 2022 6:18 pm

Whiteguy wrote:
Yeah May 1st sked change, not sure what they were using before….


The pilot pairings show twice daily on the A320 from the last week of March, with additional 13 frequencies throughout April. In addition the A220 flew an additional 17 round trips between YYZ and YQR.

But, I don’t know why we’re talking about YYZ-YQR, it was YYZ-YYC that these Customers missed, with a connection to YQR. My thoughts are that if Westjet was willing to route them through Alberta as well, then that opens many many more possibilities to get them to YQR. That is what I find surprising, that even through YYC, YEG, YWG or YXE, it is unlikely that there weren’t open seats available on either WS or AC.

My guess is that there were no open seats at that fare level.
 
alo2yyz
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Re: The WestJet Thread - 2022

Sat May 14, 2022 6:24 pm

casperCA wrote:
CrewBunk wrote:
cirrusdragoon wrote:

Air Canada overbooks yes, like every other legacy.


Only in Economy. Premium Economy and Business are never (intentionally) overbooked. With three A320s a day, YYZ-YQR and three A220s a day YYZ-YXE, not to mention countless connections through YWG it’s hard to fathom these passengers could not be accommodated on Air Canada.


Having lived in YXE for 12 years before moving to the coast I know it sounds weird but certain times of the year it is impossible to find a seat into either YXE or YQR. Spring break in SK is a good example. There are a few weeks in January and February where every flight can be full for days at a time. The rest of the year most of the time there are empty seats on every flight.

You just need an event Spring Break or some large Convention etc happening for to fill up. Air Canada and WestJet do a crappy job of adjusting to these events.

Delta use to do better. The Delta twice daily YXE flight would normally be a small regional jet. Typically a larger CRJ or E-75. However come hunting season of peek times it would be swapped out for a 757 or A320. WS and AC did not do scale like that.


How I long for that DL flight to return.

How/why Canadians tolerate this sort of thing, I don't understand. In a market that functions reasonably well for the consumer, you should be able to get from YYZ to the country's other major cities (of which there are, what, 20-23ish at the absolute most?) with 72 hours' notice. It's not like this family walked up to a counter at 11am and demanded to be in, say, Deer Lake before 4pm.

But at least we have high AIFs so the airports have waterfalls in them while we wait on a seat to open.
 
ElPistolero
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Re: The WestJet Thread - 2022

Sat May 14, 2022 7:06 pm

CrewBunk wrote:

The pilot pairings show twice daily on the A320 from the last week of March, with additional 13 frequencies throughout April. In addition the A220 flew an additional 17 round trips between YYZ and YQR.

But, I don’t know why we’re talking about YYZ-YQR, it was YYZ-YYC that these Customers missed, with a connection to YQR. My thoughts are that if Westjet was willing to route them through Alberta as well, then that opens many many more possibilities to get them to YQR. That is what I find surprising, that even through YYC, YEG, YWG or YXE, it is unlikely that there weren’t open seats available on either WS or AC.

My guess is that there were no open seats at that fare level.


Is there a way of checking historical availability? Because the way the CTA operates, I suspect the onus may well be on the pax to show that there were seats available, rather than on the airline to prove that there weren’t.

But that aside, I agree - if WS insists that this was outside their control and weren’t willing to incur the cost of relatively cheap airport hotel rooms, hard to see why they would look at tickets that cost even a cent more than what they were paid … or even other airlines. Their track record on honesty with passengers isn’t great (even got a formal warning about it).

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5149512

Personally think the refusal to provide accommodation and food during a mid-transit disruption raises questions about their overall handling - including what alternatives they actually searched for. I somehow seem to be under the impression that AC typically provides accommodation for passengers misconnecting for various reasons (even weather) but I may be wrong.

More than a hint of WS’ LCC/ULCC tendencies/mindset shining through.
 
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cirrusdragoon
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Re: The WestJet Thread - 2022

Sat May 14, 2022 7:33 pm

ElPistolero wrote:
CrewBunk wrote:

The pilot pairings show twice daily on the A320 from the last week of March, with additional 13 frequencies throughout April. In addition the A220 flew an additional 17 round trips between YYZ and YQR.

But, I don’t know why we’re talking about YYZ-YQR, it was YYZ-YYC that these Customers missed, with a connection to YQR. My thoughts are that if Westjet was willing to route them through Alberta as well, then that opens many many more possibilities to get them to YQR. That is what I find surprising, that even through YYC, YEG, YWG or YXE, it is unlikely that there weren’t open seats available on either WS or AC.

My guess is that there were no open seats at that fare level.


Is there a way of checking historical availability? Because the way the CTA operates, I suspect the onus may well be on the pax to show that there were seats available, rather than on the airline to prove that there weren’t.

But that aside, I agree - if WS insists that this was outside their control and weren’t willing to incur the cost of relatively cheap airport hotel rooms, hard to see why they would look at tickets that cost even a cent more than what they were paid … or even other airlines. Their track record on honesty with passengers isn’t great (even got a formal warning about it).

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5149512

Personally think the refusal to provide accommodation and food during a mid-transit disruption raises questions about their overall handling - including what alternatives they actually searched for. I somehow seem to be under the impression that AC typically provides accommodation for passengers misconnecting for various reasons (even weather) but I may be wrong.

More than a hint of WS’ LCC/ULCC tendencies/mindset shining through.


Westjet used to offer accommodation for even reasons out if their control, but with Canada’s insane weather patterns , especially out of central Canada , and no competitor offering the same level of complimentary accommodation , they decided it was best to align with industry standards and reduce their costs. I think you might be over simplifying the costs incurred by any airline for accommodating passengers. If it were so cheap, why does Flair or Lynx Air not provide them ?

AC certainly does not for reasons out of their control, you must purchase On My Way© https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/hom ... way.html#/
 
ElPistolero
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Re: The WestJet Thread - 2022

Sat May 14, 2022 10:47 pm

cirrusdragoon wrote:

Westjet used to offer accommodation for even reasons out if their control, but with Canada’s insane weather patterns , especially out of central Canada , and no competitor offering the same level of complimentary accommodation , they decided it was best to align with industry standards and reduce their costs. I think you might be over simplifying the costs incurred by any airline for accommodating passengers. If it were so cheap, why does Flair or Lynx Air not provide them ?

AC certainly does not for reasons out of their control, you must purchase On My Way© https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/hom ... way.html#/


Unless these types of multi-day misconnects are the norm, rather than the exception, at WS, it’s hard to see how putting up a family of 6 in 2-3 rooms at a hotel is going to cost WS much. It’s one thing asking someone to overnight at an airport during IRROPs. 3 days? That’s a bit much. Is that a common occurrence with WS? I thought it’s big fleet meant it was better at IRROPs recovery. Guess not.

I don’t understand the comparison to Lynx and F8. Those are out-and-out ULCCs - they don’t pretend to be anything more than that. Comparing WS to them - given that WS (or at least it’s boosters here) insist that it’s more than a ULCC - almost comes off as tacit acceptance that WS is a ULCC in all but name, and should be regarded as such. Their handling of this situation certainly won’t disabuse anyone of that notion.

I stand corrected on AC and hotels. Faulty memory. My only encounter with an outside airline control misconnect (airspace closure) was on a LH-AC combination. Must’ve been LH that put me up in a hotel that night.
 
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cirrusdragoon
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Re: The WestJet Thread - 2022

Sun May 15, 2022 12:13 am

With ws it apparent they wish to align with industry standard practice in regards to compensation. They clearly want to have a consistent policy (inconsistent policies are not appealing in customer service) when it comes to these situations which quite possibly could occur more frequent during Canada’s dreary winters. It would be nice if ws would offer an insurance like Air Canada’s On my way©.

With Westjet, they are an in-transition full service carrier that is aligned with other full service carriers in not providing hotels for issues outside of carriers control. Name one major North American carrier which provides this type of coverage ?

Perhaps Flair Air will become the saviour of the aviation world and invest in taking care of its’ customers during an irregular event ( cancellations outside of their control) and put their customers in hotels.
That would certainly differentiate them from Lynx Air. That right there would make me want to switch from flying with Air Canada and Westjet or Porter.
 
casperCA
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Re: The WestJet Thread - 2022

Sun May 15, 2022 1:32 am

cirrusdragoon wrote:
With ws it apparent they wish to align with industry standard practice in regards to compensation. They clearly want to have a consistent policy (inconsistent policies are not appealing in customer service) when it comes to these situations which quite possibly could occur more frequent during Canada’s dreary winters. It would be nice if ws would offer an insurance like Air Canada’s On my way©.

With Westjet, they are an in-transition full service carrier that is aligned with other full service carriers in not providing hotels for issues outside of carriers control. Name one major North American carrier which provides this type of coverage ?

Perhaps Flair Air will become the saviour of the aviation world and invest in taking care of its’ customers during an irregular event ( cancellations outside of their control) and put their customers in hotels.
That would certainly differentiate them from Lynx Air. That right there would make me want to switch from flying with Air Canada and Westjet or Porter.


The assumption here is AC does not. Pre-covid that was not the case. There is what is written in term and then there is what they actually do. On a connection at a hub it was common for AC to provide accommodation or offer to get a room at their discounted rate. No idea post-covid.
 
casperCA
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Re: The WestJet Thread - 2022

Sun May 15, 2022 1:37 am

ElPistolero wrote:
CrewBunk wrote:
.....

But that aside, I agree - if WS insists that this was outside their control and weren’t willing to incur the cost of relatively cheap airport hotel rooms, hard to see why they would look at tickets that cost even a cent more than what they were paid … or even other airlines. Their track record on honesty with passengers isn’t great (even got a formal warning about it).


The reality is at time of boarding all empty flights seats on a flight cost WS exactly the same. $0.00. WS is not giving up any revenue for the flight to go out with the empty seat.

They could have put these passengers on standby for the next flight. Given they don't over book economy that would likely have gotten them a bit sooner.

Yes, moving them over to AC would cost cash.
 
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cirrusdragoon
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Re: The WestJet Thread - 2022

Sun May 15, 2022 1:41 am

casperCA wrote:
cirrusdragoon wrote:
With ws it apparent they wish to align with industry standard practice in regards to compensation. They clearly want to have a consistent policy (inconsistent policies are not appealing in customer service) when it comes to these situations which quite possibly could occur more frequent during Canada’s dreary winters. It would be nice if ws would offer an insurance like Air Canada’s On my way©.

With Westjet, they are an in-transition full service carrier that is aligned with other full service carriers in not providing hotels for issues outside of carriers control. Name one major North American carrier which provides this type of coverage ?

Perhaps Flair Air will become the saviour of the aviation world and invest in taking care of its’ customers during an irregular event ( cancellations outside of their control) and put their customers in hotels.
That would certainly differentiate them from Lynx Air. That right there would make me want to switch from flying with Air Canada and Westjet or Porter.


The assumption here is AC does not. Pre-covid that was not the case. There is what is written in term and then there is what they actually do. On a connection at a hub it was common for AC to provide accommodation or offer to get a room at their discounted rate. No idea post-covid.


Well different strokes for different yolks. If that is the case , I wonder why do they bother selling On My Way©?
 
ElPistolero
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Re: The WestJet Thread - 2022

Sun May 15, 2022 2:08 am

cirrusdragoon wrote:
With ws it apparent they wish to align with industry standard practice in regards to compensation. They clearly want to have a consistent policy (inconsistent policies are not appealing in customer service) when it comes to these situations which quite possibly could occur more frequent during Canada’s dreary winters. It would be nice if ws would offer an insurance like Air Canada’s On my way©.

With Westjet, they are an in-transition full service carrier that is aligned with other full service carriers in not providing hotels for issues outside of carriers control. Name one major North American carrier which provides this type of coverage ?

Perhaps Flair Air will become the saviour of the aviation world and invest in taking care of its’ customers during an irregular event ( cancellations outside of their control) and put their customers in hotels.
That would certainly differentiate them from Lynx Air. That right there would make me want to switch from flying with Air Canada and Westjet or Porter.


Can’t think of any US carrier that wouldn’t be able to transport someone from its principal hub to a state capital within 24 hours. Same for AC. This is a peculiarly WS outcome. For all the talk of aligning with industry standard practice, they’re not very good at operating like other industry actors, eh?

As for F8, given that they don’t offer connecting flights (which WS hacks like to deride them for), stands to reason that they have a very low likelihood of stranding someone in a city that isn’t their origin or destination. Perhaps WS should take a page out of F8’s book and stop offering connecting flights if it can’t get people from their hub to their (non-remote destination within 24 hours?
 
ElPistolero
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Re: The WestJet Thread - 2022

Sun May 15, 2022 2:10 am

cirrusdragoon wrote:
casperCA wrote:
cirrusdragoon wrote:
With ws it apparent they wish to align with industry standard practice in regards to compensation. They clearly want to have a consistent policy (inconsistent policies are not appealing in customer service) when it comes to these situations which quite possibly could occur more frequent during Canada’s dreary winters. It would be nice if ws would offer an insurance like Air Canada’s On my way©.

With Westjet, they are an in-transition full service carrier that is aligned with other full service carriers in not providing hotels for issues outside of carriers control. Name one major North American carrier which provides this type of coverage ?

Perhaps Flair Air will become the saviour of the aviation world and invest in taking care of its’ customers during an irregular event ( cancellations outside of their control) and put their customers in hotels.
That would certainly differentiate them from Lynx Air. That right there would make me want to switch from flying with Air Canada and Westjet or Porter.


The assumption here is AC does not. Pre-covid that was not the case. There is what is written in term and then there is what they actually do. On a connection at a hub it was common for AC to provide accommodation or offer to get a room at their discounted rate. No idea post-covid.


Well different strokes for different yolks. If that is the case , I wonder why do they bother selling On My Way©?


On my way! isnt actually offered on all itineraries. Think it’s region-restricted or something.
 
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cirrusdragoon
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Re: The WestJet Thread - 2022

Sun May 15, 2022 2:30 am

ElPistolero wrote:
cirrusdragoon wrote:
casperCA wrote:

The assumption here is AC does not. Pre-covid that was not the case. There is what is written in term and then there is what they actually do. On a connection at a hub it was common for AC to provide accommodation or offer to get a room at their discounted rate. No idea post-covid.


Well different strokes for different yolks. If that is the case , I wonder why do they bother selling On My Way©?


On my way! isnt actually offered on all itineraries. Think it’s region-restricted or something.


Air Canada-coded flights operated by Air Canada or Air Canada Rouge, or by an Air Canada Express carrier, i.e., Jazz for travel within Canada and between Canada and the Continental U.S.A., Hawaii and Alaska (flights operated by codeshare partners are excluded)
 
ElPistolero
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Re: The WestJet Thread - 2022

Sun May 15, 2022 1:36 pm

cirrusdragoon wrote:
ElPistolero wrote:
cirrusdragoon wrote:

Well different strokes for different yolks. If that is the case , I wonder why do they bother selling On My Way©?


On my way! isnt actually offered on all itineraries. Think it’s region-restricted or something.


Air Canada-coded flights operated by Air Canada or Air Canada Rouge, or by an Air Canada Express carrier, i.e., Jazz for travel within Canada and between Canada and the Continental U.S.A., Hawaii and Alaska (flights operated by codeshare partners are excluded)


Unless Costa Rica falls within “North America” (I don’t do sun destinations, so no idea how they’re classed), an On my way!-type product wouldn’t apply here.

Governments can regulate this issue away if they want. The EU already has. Unfortunately, we haven’t quite gotten there with our “world class” APPRs and CTA. Even after APPRs, consumer advocates are telling people to disregard CTA advice to submit complains to the CTA, and go to small claims for a fair hearing.

“Also, says Lukacs, it’s best to avoid seeking help from the Canadian Transportation Agency. “We’ve been seeing passengers don’t get satisfaction there, don’t get answers there and don’t get help there. So small claims court is the way to go.””

https://www.thestar.com/amp/news/canada ... light.html

Bit of a shame that these folk followed CTA advice and went the CTA route, instead of small claims.
 
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cirrusdragoon
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Re: The WestJet Thread - 2022

Fri May 20, 2022 1:28 pm

WestJet today inaugurated their new cross-border service between Toronto and Chicago , with daily flights that will be available year-round. Offering 1,092 seats per week.

Flight WR 3674 took off from Lester Pearson International Airport at 15:36 local time and landed at O’Hare Airport at 16:46.
Image
 
YEGFlyer
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Re: The WestJet Thread - 2022

Fri May 20, 2022 3:20 pm

I'm shocked that WS didn't already fly between ORD and YYZ?
 
Juju2004
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Re: The WestJet Thread - 2022

Fri May 20, 2022 3:28 pm

Swoop will also compete with WS on that route. I can't see it not cannibalizing their own LF.
 
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cirrusdragoon
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Re: The WestJet Thread - 2022

Fri May 20, 2022 3:36 pm

Juju2004 wrote:
Swoop will also compete with WS on that route. I can't see it not cannibalizing their own LF.


WO won’t be a year long service and it won’t offer the same frequency. WS is daily on DH8-Q400 with only 80 seats whilst WO is 5x per week on a 737-800 and just for summer season.
 
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Aresxerexade
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Re: The WestJet Thread - 2022

Fri May 20, 2022 5:40 pm

YEGFlyer wrote:
I'm shocked that WS didn't already fly between ORD and YYZ?


I’m not shocked. Prior, when they were cozying up with AA during the 10’s , they operated YVR and YYC to ORD.

Once they aligned with DL , they prioritized routes that would garner greater connectivity with DL. And now they seem to be adding some new US points . Great to see them add ORD back to the network.
 
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cirrusdragoon
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Re: The WestJet Thread - 2022

Fri May 20, 2022 11:32 pm

Westjet returns to DEN starting May 22.


Denver flyers will once again be able to fly to Calgary with nonstop service two days per week, on Sundays and on Thursdays. Flights will be operated aboard Boeing 737 aircraft.

"We are excited to welcome WestJet back to Denver, offering travelers from across their network increased access to the Mile High City," said DIA CEO Phil Washington in a statement. “Calgary and Denver share many similarities, as gateways to outdoor recreation rooted in western culture, and this renewed connection will support future collaboration.”

The airline first started its Denver to Calgary route in March 2018. When the flight was announced in August 2017, it was expected to generate $19 million in annual economic impact and create 150 new jobs in the Denver area, according to reporting at the time.

The last flight took place on March 24, 2020, and had remained suspended due to travel restrictions associated with the Covid-19 pandemic.

Flight 1070 D YYC 11:20 / A DEN 13:47

Flight 1071 D DEN 14:39 / A YYC 16:59
 
YEGFlyer
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Re: The WestJet Thread - 2022

Sun May 22, 2022 8:01 pm

WestJet has run the trans-Atlantic carriers out of YYC... will the US carriers be next? UA facing pilot, staff shortage, their DEN run might be vulnerable.
 
YYCFlier
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Re: The WestJet Thread - 2022

Sun May 22, 2022 9:06 pm

YEGFlyer wrote:
WestJet has run the trans-Atlantic carriers out of YYC... will the US carriers be next? UA facing pilot, staff shortage, their DEN run might be vulnerable.


Ummm no. DEN was running through the pandemic. It's a major UA hub. WS is just O&D. DEN is mostly connecting. The US hub flights will be fine.
 
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IceCream
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Re: The WestJet Thread - 2022

Sun May 22, 2022 10:27 pm

YEGFlyer wrote:
WestJet has run the trans-Atlantic carriers out of YYC... will the US carriers be next? UA facing pilot, staff shortage, their DEN run might be vulnerable.

The US carriers will certainly not be next. UA is quite successful on their DEN/SFO/ORD/IAH runs out of YYC. 3x weekly DEN on WS is no match for 3x daily pre-pandemic on UA.
AA has been doing very well too and went from 2 daily E175 on YYC-DFW to two daily 737's to DFW and now a daily 737 to ORD. Alaska has been holding out as well.

WS is certainly expanding fast out of YYC, but they'll never be able to drive UA/AA out of their core markets.
 
Acey
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Re: The WestJet Thread - 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 1:53 am

YEGFlyer wrote:
WestJet has run the trans-Atlantic carriers out of YYC... will the US carriers be next? UA facing pilot, staff shortage, their DEN run might be vulnerable.

What kind of baseless statement is this? :lol:

You guys just love to hear yourselves talk sometimes. WS is running 2x weekly with poor bookings and zero feed on the south end compared to what will be 3 daily UA to the DEN hub... and you somehow think WS has the advantage.
 
jimbo737
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Re: The WestJet Thread - 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 3:19 am

Except that anyone looking for a standby seat northbound over the next couple of weeks best look for an alternative routing......
 
Aliqiout
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Re: The WestJet Thread - 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 3:44 am

ElPistolero wrote:
cirrusdragoon wrote:
With ws it apparent they wish to align with industry standard practice in regards to compensation. They clearly want to have a consistent policy (inconsistent policies are not appealing in customer service) when it comes to these situations which quite possibly could occur more frequent during Canada’s dreary winters. It would be nice if ws would offer an insurance like Air Canada’s On my way©.

With Westjet, they are an in-transition full service carrier that is aligned with other full service carriers in not providing hotels for issues outside of carriers control. Name one major North American carrier which provides this type of coverage ?

Perhaps Flair Air will become the saviour of the aviation world and invest in taking care of its’ customers during an irregular event ( cancellations outside of their control) and put their customers in hotels.
That would certainly differentiate them from Lynx Air. That right there would make me want to switch from flying with Air Canada and Westjet or Porter.


Can’t think of any US carrier that wouldn’t be able to transport someone from its principal hub to a state capital within 24 hours. Same for AC. This is a peculiarly WS outcome. For all the talk of aligning with industry standard practice, they’re not very good at operating like other industry actors, eh?

As for F8, given that they don’t offer connecting flights (which WS hacks like to deride them for), stands to reason that they have a very low likelihood of stranding someone in a city that isn’t their origin or destination. Perhaps WS should take a page out of F8’s book and stop offering connecting flights if it can’t get people from their hub to their (non-remote destination within 24 hours?

WN can't get you to SAF, JNU, HLN, TLH....ect
 
casperCA
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Re: The WestJet Thread - 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 5:20 am

YEGFlyer wrote:
WestJet has run the trans-Atlantic carriers out of YYC... will the US carriers be next? UA facing pilot, staff shortage, their DEN run might be vulnerable.


The major transatlantic carrier from YYC is Air Canada. As far as I can tell it has not been run out YYC.
 
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cirrusdragoon
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Re: The WestJet Thread - 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 5:58 am

casperCA wrote:
YEGFlyer wrote:
WestJet has run the trans-Atlantic carriers out of YYC... will the US carriers be next? UA facing pilot, staff shortage, their DEN run might be vulnerable.


The major transatlantic carrier from YYC is Air Canada. As far as I can tell it has not been run out YYC.


British Airways pulled out of Alberta due to cost cutting measures https://www.bbc.com/news/business-55348474.amp

Air Canada has two non stop flights to Europe FRA and LHR , whereas Westjet operates FCO, CDG ,DUB, LON.
 
ac190
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Re: The WestJet Thread - 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 6:21 am

jimbo737 wrote:
Except that anyone looking for a standby seat northbound over the next couple of weeks best look for an alternative routing......


Except no....

DEN-YYC

26th - 7 open 737-700
29th - 5 open 737-800
02Jun - 22 open 737-700
05Jun - 12 open 737-700
09Jun - 18 open 737-700
etc.

With double bookings on those flights I'd say all with go with open seats.
 
Acey
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Re: The WestJet Thread - 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 7:48 am

casperCA wrote:
YEGFlyer wrote:
WestJet has run the trans-Atlantic carriers out of YYC... will the US carriers be next? UA facing pilot, staff shortage, their DEN run might be vulnerable.


The major transatlantic carrier from YYC is Air Canada. As far as I can tell it has not been run out YYC.


Uhh... for S22...

Air Canada - 14 weekly 789 YYC-Europe
WestJet - 20 weekly 789 YYC-Europe

I agree that AC has not been run out of town, but I feel like we're long past the point where they can be considered the major transatlantic carrier from YYC. The only reason it's only 20 for WS is lack of airplanes.
 
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Aresxerexade
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Re: The WestJet Thread - 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 7:55 am

Acey wrote:
casperCA wrote:
YEGFlyer wrote:
WestJet has run the trans-Atlantic carriers out of YYC... will the US carriers be next? UA facing pilot, staff shortage, their DEN run might be vulnerable.


The major transatlantic carrier from YYC is Air Canada. As far as I can tell it has not been run out YYC.


Uhh... for S22...

Air Canada - 14 weekly 789 YYC-Europe
WestJet - 20 weekly 789 YYC-Europe

I agree that AC has not been run out of town, but I feel like we're long past the point where they can be considered the major transatlantic carrier from YYC. The only reason it's only 20 for WS is lack of airplanes.


Glad someone cleared that up.
 
YEGFlyer
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Re: The WestJet Thread - 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 4:56 pm

Most of the euro carriers are long gone, you have Air Canada holding on by a thread, WS willing to run routes at a loss out of YYC to build up their hub, and subsidize them through other domestic routes. If they keep adding to DEN and other US routes, I wouldn't expect the US carriers to stick around on newly lossmaking routes.
 
Thomaas
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Re: The WestJet Thread - 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 5:06 pm

YEGFlyer wrote:
Most of the euro carriers are long gone, you have Air Canada holding on by a thread, WS willing to run routes at a loss out of YYC to build up their hub, and subsidize them through other domestic routes. If they keep adding to DEN and other US routes, I wouldn't expect the US carriers to stick around on newly lossmaking routes.

I fail to see how a few weekly flights on WS makes them a competitive threat on YYC-DEN. They will certainly not be taking any of the premium traffic on the route.
 
Acey
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Re: The WestJet Thread - 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 5:12 pm

YEGFlyer wrote:
Most of the euro carriers are long gone, you have Air Canada holding on by a thread, WS willing to run routes at a loss out of YYC to build up their hub, and subsidize them through other domestic routes. If they keep adding to DEN and other US routes, I wouldn't expect the US carriers to stick around on newly lossmaking routes.

Yet another post from you that makes so little sense so it's almost not worth addressing... but I'm curious how, from your armchair, you've definitively determined the exact profit margin of UA's YYC-DEN.

Aside from the reduced covid sked, AC to Europe has remain unchanged since 2015. 7x LHR and 7x FRA. That's what it was before the pandemic and that's what it is now post-pandemic. By what backwards Edmonton logic is an unchanged schedule "hanging on by a thread".
 
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CrewBunk
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Re: The WestJet Thread - 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 7:17 pm

The only trans-Atlantic carrier “run out of YYC” (that still makes me chuckle) is British Airways. Their departure had very little to do with westjet, even though I suppose to boost lacklustre employee morale, they are taking the win.

British Airways pulled out of YYC when Alberta’s oil based economy started swirling around the toilet. Their premium cabin based aircraft did not fit with what was becoming a low-yield market. They did try sending in their 767s with a smaller premium cabin, but with the retirement of the type, that option was no longer available.

I suspect, if the Alberta economy rebounds, BA will be back. In the meantime, I’m guessing their assets can be better used elsewhere.
 
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IceCream
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Re: The WestJet Thread - 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 11:01 pm

YEGFlyer wrote:
Most of the euro carriers are long gone, you have Air Canada holding on by a thread, WS willing to run routes at a loss out of YYC to build up their hub, and subsidize them through other domestic routes. If they keep adding to DEN and other US routes, I wouldn't expect the US carriers to stick around on newly lossmaking routes.

Ok. A soon to be bankrupt WestJet is losing tons of money at YYC and so is Air Canada and every other airline that touches YYC, and YYC is bound to become a wasteland or some sort of a creepy abandoned building that thrill-seekers go to. Happy?
 
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cirrusdragoon
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Re: The WestJet Thread - 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 11:06 pm

I just added that troll poster to my blocked list. Peace and quiet do not see their posts or replies.
 
Acey
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Re: The WestJet Thread - 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 11:18 pm

CrewBunk wrote:
The only trans-Atlantic carrier “run out of YYC” (that still makes me chuckle) is British Airways. Their departure had very little to do with westjet, even though I suppose to boost lacklustre employee morale, they are taking the win.

British Airways pulled out of YYC when Alberta’s oil based economy started swirling around the toilet. Their premium cabin based aircraft did not fit with what was becoming a low-yield market. They did try sending in their 767s with a smaller premium cabin, but with the retirement of the type, that option was no longer available.

I suspect, if the Alberta economy rebounds, BA will be back. In the meantime, I’m guessing their assets can be better used elsewhere.


Fully agree, BA's departure was sealed well before WS began their transatlantic ramp up. That said, I'd list Transat as the transatlantic carrier whose departure I would attribute to WestJet.

Aside from that, coming to YYC this summer is Eurowings (by way of leased Finnair A350), and Edelweiss will return. AC's non-transatlantic schedule is perhaps not where we want it, but overall YYC is in great shape this summer for the first year of post-pandemic schedules. Nobody expected it to bounce back this quickly.

Back to transborder, YEGFlyer must be unaware that WS previously operated YYC-DFW and YYC-ORD pre-pandemic, both of which were no longer viable once they switched to team Delta and bailed on working with American. The notion that WS is on the verge of somehow forcing out AA or anyone else on these key hub routes is not based on fact whatsoever.
 
Skywatcher
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Re: The WestJet Thread - 2022

Mon May 23, 2022 11:36 pm

From what I can see Transat has switched to transferring passengers from YYC (and YVR) to Europe via YYZ/YUL as opposed to non-stops a few years ago. They have 2 daily non-stops from each of YYC/YVR to YUL now for example. I've never seen more than daily on those routings. So whatever Transat lost in YYC to Europe they picked up from Westjet domestically maybe?
 
YEGFlyer
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Re: The WestJet Thread - 2022

Tue May 24, 2022 2:33 am

LH, Edelweiss, AC US routes all to regional? AC capacity/freq cuts or lack of growth?

No idea why this is so controversial...West Jet is muscling out competition and I think this is a pretty obvious conclusion when you look at the market objectively?

With their ambitions to become a neo-legacy carrier, don't you think they'll keep building up frequencies? I think it is valid to talk about market shifts. Granted, UA and DEN might be in a better place than some other routes given the UA AC tie-up so you do have some feed on both ends. I could see YYC becoming more of a one-airline show in years ahead.
 
jimbo737
Posts: 675
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Re: The WestJet Thread - 2022

Tue May 24, 2022 4:09 am

ac190 wrote:
jimbo737 wrote:
Except that anyone looking for a standby seat northbound over the next couple of weeks best look for an alternative routing......


Except no....

DEN-YYC

26th - 7 open 737-700
29th - 5 open 737-800
02Jun - 22 open 737-700
05Jun - 12 open 737-700
09Jun - 18 open 737-700
etc.

With double bookings on those flights I'd say all with go with open seats.


That’s an inbound booked l/f of a little over 90% assuming no further seats are sold. I doubt WS sees many double bookings on a route of this nature and frequency.

I’m sure WS isn’t complaining......
 
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Aresxerexade
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Re: The WestJet Thread - 2022

Tue May 24, 2022 4:20 am

Westjet kicked off its inaugural GLA-YYZ service with its 737-800 this past Saturday with the route running four times a week on Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday.
Image

Nice to see it up and running! https://www.ttgmedia.com/news/news/new- ... ches-34406

Earlier in the month WS also resumed its YHZ route from GLA with three services operating per week.
 
Whiteguy
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Re: The WestJet Thread - 2022

Tue May 24, 2022 5:08 am

Aresxerexade wrote:
Westjet kicked off its inaugural GLA-YYZ service with its 737-800 this past Saturday with the route running four times a week on Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday.
Image

Nice to see it up and running! https://www.ttgmedia.com/news/news/new- ... ches-34406

Earlier in the month WS also resumed its YHZ route from GLA with three services operating per week.


Operated with the MAX8 from YYZ…
 
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Aresxerexade
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Re: The WestJet Thread - 2022

Tue May 24, 2022 7:14 am

Whiteguy wrote:
Aresxerexade wrote:
Westjet kicked off its inaugural GLA-YYZ service with its 737-800 this past Saturday with the route running four times a week on Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday.
Image

Nice to see it up and running! https://www.ttgmedia.com/news/news/new- ... ches-34406

Earlier in the month WS also resumed its YHZ route from GLA with three services operating per week.


Operated with the MAX8 from YYZ…


Apologies for the error :)
 
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IceCream
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Re: The WestJet Thread - 2022

Tue May 24, 2022 1:42 pm

YEGFlyer wrote:
LH, Edelweiss, AC US routes all to regional? AC capacity/freq cuts or lack of growth?

No idea why this is so controversial...West Jet is muscling out competition and I think this is a pretty obvious conclusion when you look at the market objectively?

With their ambitions to become a neo-legacy carrier, don't you think they'll keep building up frequencies? I think it is valid to talk about market shifts. Granted, UA and DEN might be in a better place than some other routes given the UA AC tie-up so you do have some feed on both ends. I could see YYC becoming more of a one-airline show in years ahead.

Edelweiss is still at YYC, LH is coming back through Eurowings, and AC US routes being regional is for one summer during the first year of recovery. AC's going to focus on their largest hubs to bring back service, just like WS is. Totally normal stuff. It's controversial because it's not completely true. That being said WS certainly drove AT out of the market.

Anyways I wonder if WS adds more Max 8 to Europe out of YYZ (could LIS, KEF, etc happen?)
 
ElPistolero
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Re: The WestJet Thread - 2022

Tue May 24, 2022 2:46 pm

Aliqiout wrote:
ElPistolero wrote:
cirrusdragoon wrote:
With ws it apparent they wish to align with industry standard practice in regards to compensation. They clearly want to have a consistent policy (inconsistent policies are not appealing in customer service) when it comes to these situations which quite possibly could occur more frequent during Canada’s dreary winters. It would be nice if ws would offer an insurance like Air Canada’s On my way©.

With Westjet, they are an in-transition full service carrier that is aligned with other full service carriers in not providing hotels for issues outside of carriers control. Name one major North American carrier which provides this type of coverage ?

Perhaps Flair Air will become the saviour of the aviation world and invest in taking care of its’ customers during an irregular event ( cancellations outside of their control) and put their customers in hotels.
That would certainly differentiate them from Lynx Air. That right there would make me want to switch from flying with Air Canada and Westjet or Porter.


Can’t think of any US carrier that wouldn’t be able to transport someone from its principal hub to a state capital within 24 hours. Same for AC. This is a peculiarly WS outcome. For all the talk of aligning with industry standard practice, they’re not very good at operating like other industry actors, eh?

As for F8, given that they don’t offer connecting flights (which WS hacks like to deride them for), stands to reason that they have a very low likelihood of stranding someone in a city that isn’t their origin or destination. Perhaps WS should take a page out of F8’s book and stop offering connecting flights if it can’t get people from their hub to their (non-remote destination within 24 hours?

WN can't get you to SAF, JNU, HLN, TLH....ect


Makes it highly unlikely, then, that WN will sell tickets to those destinations and strand pax in third cities in between.

To be clear, that wasn’t about WS not being able to get pax to YFB (which WS - and AC - don’t serve); that was about YQR, which both theoretically serve.
 
ac190
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Re: The WestJet Thread - 2022

Tue May 24, 2022 3:18 pm

cirrusdragoon wrote:
Even when a carrier the size of Westjet has the leverage of rebooking passengers onto other airlines to get them home, that too can fail. Nothing is fool proof .

In the end, wish WS would have gone above and beyond for this family. But if they do this for this family , you may as well do that for every case beyond their control which ultimately affects an organizations bottom line. The farm cannot be given away anymore I suppose?

https://globalnews.ca/news/8834493/regi ... ts-westjet

“We apologize for the inconvenience these guests faced and understand three days is a significant period of time to wait, however unfortunately, every flight including WestJet and other carriers was fully booked until then,” the statement reads.

WestJet added that since the guests opted to drive the duration of their journey, the airline provided all six guests with a credit to refund the segments of their trip they weren’t able to fly “as a gesture of goodwill.”

“As these guest’s journeys were impacted by events outside of WestJet’s control, they unfortunately do not qualify for compensation under APPR,” WestJet’s statement continued.

Thoughts? oh and sincerest apologies if I come off as too journalistically Global News.


Clearing up the recent comments on why Westjet can't get them there by using other airlines and comepensation.

WS has rebooking agreements with other airlines. Welcome to the industry standard... AC is a partner with them however there are rules. First off being, the entire journey has to be within Canada. Second being travel has to be day of.

If I am flying YYC - YYZ - LGA and my YYC-YYZ flight is cancelled/delayed, the CSA is not allowed to rebooking using Air Canada since it includes a trans-border (same for international) segment. So that shuts down pretty much why they couldn't be rebooked on AC using that reservation. Now there have been instances of both AC & WJ employees not playing by the rules and rebooking anyways regardless of those two rules but you're risking it.

WestJet's rebooking, a version of Sabre is pretty garbage so just going to add not surprised that they weren't able to be rebooked on a WJ connection/flight sooner. That and they don't overbook a flight or standby confirmed passengers complicates things.

Second being compensation. According to the news article there was an issue with a broken air conditioner on the aircraft. That automatically should've entitled them to a hotel and meal vouchers until they reach their destination - YQR. So if it's 3 nights in a hotel than Westjet needs to suck it up and pay. While under the APPR last minute mechanical is classified as safety and therefor means no payout of money, it doesn't trump the fact that under Westjets tariff they are to take care of the passenger for an issue within carrier control. Pretty much every airline does that without purchase of insurance or an addon to the ticket. Hence why if the news article is 100% (never is) true Westjet did fail them this time, however rebooking on AC wasn't going to happen so going back and forth on how much frequency AC or WJ has is irrelevant unfortunately.

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