Hockeyfan125 wrote:

Whiteguy wrote:

Hockeyfan125 wrote:

Great! WestJet Toronto YYZ - Barcelona BCN, Spain has increased to 4x weekly from June 5- September 2 this upcoming Summer 2022 too, also on the 787.

Basically WestJet 787 Europe international flights will be mostly Calgary YYC & Toronto. A Smaller extent Vancouver YVR to London Gatwick LGW, UK.

Europe flying was planned like that before COVID on the 787.

Yep for Calgary YYC, Toronto YYZ & Vancouver YVR it is.

There are WestJet Boeing 737Max 8’s too this Summer 2022 to Europe from Halifax YHZ/ YYZ .

Yup, MAX flying from YYZ is new this summer, YHZ had a summer or two prior to the grounding. Plus NG flying.

In a new development, former BA CEO Álex Cruz joins Westjet Groups Board Of Directors.

Cruz led British Airways from April 2016 through October 2020. Prior to that, he founded and served as the CEO of low-cost carrier Clickair, which merged with Vueling in July 2009. He also held several management roles at American Airlines before founding his own aviation consulting company.

I would like to know whom else is on the BOD? It is not published ever since Onex took the reins, but all we know is Chris Burley was on the former board.

Only update on this week is they’ve reversed the increases on YYC-FCO and YYZ-BCN.

Otherwise still no update to S22.

It would appear that WestJet (or at the very least, Onex) is buying Sunwing.

Apparently there is a big announcement coming from the company sometime today.

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/westjet-nea ... -1.1731321

That's very interesting. Not completely unexpected but I'm still surprised. I wonder if WG joins WS and their flights become WS operated or do the operations remain separate?

IceCream wrote:

That's very interesting. Not completely unexpected but I'm still surprised. I wonder if WG joins WS and their flights become WS operated or do the operations remain separate?

Deal is confirmed pending Government approval. I imagine it's a move to increase the portfolio of WJ vacations and grab traffic from secondary markets that SWG serves. It would appear though that the brands will remain separate, so not to sure how integration is going to look (I.E- If they keep it like Swoop where all is separate, of if they have it like integrated like AC does with Rouge).

Hope the employees get taken care of as well.

https://www.thespec.com/ts/business/202 ... ravel.html

I wonder how it will work for routes both of them operate (eg YYC/YEG-CUN, YYC-MBJ, a lot more in the east as well)

Merger already being discussed here

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1470903

IceCream wrote:

I wonder how it will work for routes both of them operate (eg YYC/YEG-CUN, YYC-MBJ, a lot more in the east as well)

I imagine those routes will be consolidated. Based on the Wikipedia pages from the respective airports, it could add a lot of flying from YUL/YYZ/YVR.

Jayce wrote:

IceCream wrote:

I wonder how it will work for routes both of them operate (eg YYC/YEG-CUN, YYC-MBJ, a lot more in the east as well)

I imagine those routes will be consolidated. Based on the Wikipedia pages from the respective airports, it could add a lot of flying from YUL/YYZ/YVR.

Interesting. I would assume some (probably not all) Southern flights in the winter on WS are then merged with the WG operations under the Sunwing name?

IceCream wrote:

Jayce wrote:

IceCream wrote:

I wonder how it will work for routes both of them operate (eg YYC/YEG-CUN, YYC-MBJ, a lot more in the east as well)

I imagine those routes will be consolidated. Based on the Wikipedia pages from the respective airports, it could add a lot of flying from YUL/YYZ/YVR.

Interesting. I would assume some (probably not all) Southern flights in the winter on WS are then merged with the WG operations under the Sunwing name?

I would imagine that’s the plan, though I could WestJet deploying the 787 on some of these routes in the winter.

I think the 787’s are destined for transoceanic missions.

IceCream wrote:

Jayce wrote:

IceCream wrote:

I wonder how it will work for routes both of them operate (eg YYC/YEG-CUN, YYC-MBJ, a lot more in the east as well)

I imagine those routes will be consolidated. Based on the Wikipedia pages from the respective airports, it could add a lot of flying from YUL/YYZ/YVR.

Interesting. I would assume some (probably not all) Southern flights in the winter on WS are then merged with the WG operations under the Sunwing name?

I can very much see this happening. Also with the added QC market of Sunwing, and the upcoming codesharing with TS , there most definitely will be reason to add flights year round to Quebec from British Columbia.

Just noticed they've reduced YYZ-LGA to just 2x daily (from 7x daily) this summer. Wonder if this is hinting at WS/DL trying again at their JV? If I remember correctly, LGA slots had to be given up as part of the conditional approval?

hollywoodcory wrote:

Just noticed they've reduced YYZ-LGA to just 2x daily (from 7x daily) this summer. Wonder if this is hinting at WS/DL trying again at their JV? If I remember correctly, LGA slots had to be given up as part of the conditional approval?

Could very well be, I wonder when they will reapply for the JV with DL

hollywoodcory wrote:

Just noticed they've reduced YYZ-LGA to just 2x daily (from 7x daily) this summer. Wonder if this is hinting at WS/DL trying again at their JV? If I remember correctly, LGA slots had to be given up as part of the conditional approval?

I thought I read a few weeks ago that the US has granted slot exemption extensions for international carriers only at slot-controlled airports.?

I haven't seen anything about that being extended into S22 yet?

On another note, another week and still no S22 updates. They are either planning to operate a mostly pre-COVID schedule or waiting until the last possible minute to file updates.

hollywoodcory wrote:

I haven't seen anything about that being extended into S22 yet?

On another note, another week and still no S22 updates. They are either planning to operate a mostly pre-COVID schedule or waiting until the last possible minute to file updates.

It seems a little risky to make last-minute changes (imagine all the people having to be rebooked). There have only been minor tweaks so far so maybe you're right that they end up operating a mostly pre covid schedule. It just seems odd that pretty much everyone else has changed their schedules except WS.

IceCream wrote:

hollywoodcory wrote:

I haven't seen anything about that being extended into S22 yet?

On another note, another week and still no S22 updates. They are either planning to operate a mostly pre-COVID schedule or waiting until the last possible minute to file updates.

It seems a little risky to make last-minute changes (imagine all the people having to be rebooked). There have only been minor tweaks so far so maybe you're right that they end up operating a mostly pre covid schedule. It just seems odd that pretty much everyone else has changed their schedules except WS.

Yep & it seems like WestJet’s plan will be to continue consolidating most their flights and passengers through its 3 busiest WS Hubs in Calgary YYC, Toronto YYZ & Vancouver YVR

Rebooking flights is happening a lot on all airlines as most are consolidating flights routes together. Plus delays ,cancellations or missed connections for flights etc.

Some competing airlines like Air Canada- WestJet will rebook you and accommodate (if needed)

Good example,someone on the SkyscraperPage Forum for Saskatoon and Regina Air Service thread that few days ago mentioned they were traveling home from Toronto YYZ- Regina YQR (via Calgary YYC) on AC recently & there were many people on the flight that were connecting to YQR and Saskatoon YXE & that some on the Regina flight missed their connection by just a few minutes & eventually got booked onto the late WestJet flight.
Likely with the help of Air Canada doing the rebooking part & WS accommodating them.

Hockeyfan125 wrote:

Yep & it seems like WestJet’s plan will be to continue consolidating most their flights and passengers through its 3 busiest WS Hubs in Calgary YYC, Toronto YYZ & Vancouver YVR

Please, please stop referring to these airports as WestJet’s “busiest hubs”. They are WestJet’s only hubs.

It’s like saying a government office is relocating to “Canada’s largest federal capital”. There’s only one.

And yes with hub and spoke, you generally have all your flights out of your hubs and feed into those hubs vs. point-to-point which is what ULCCs do.

Hockeyfan125 wrote:

IceCream wrote:

hollywoodcory wrote:

I haven't seen anything about that being extended into S22 yet?

On another note, another week and still no S22 updates. They are either planning to operate a mostly pre-COVID schedule or waiting until the last possible minute to file updates.

It seems a little risky to make last-minute changes (imagine all the people having to be rebooked). There have only been minor tweaks so far so maybe you're right that they end up operating a mostly pre covid schedule. It just seems odd that pretty much everyone else has changed their schedules except WS.

Yep & it seems like WestJet’s plan will be to continue consolidating most their flights and passengers through its 3 busiest WS Hubs in Calgary YYC, Toronto YYZ & Vancouver YVR

Rebooking flights is happening a lot on all airlines as most are consolidating flights routes together. Plus delays ,cancellations or missed connections for flights etc.

Some competing airlines like Air Canada- WestJet will rebook you and accommodate (if needed)

Good example,someone on the SkyscraperPage Forum for Saskatoon and Regina Air Service thread that few days ago mentioned they were traveling home from Toronto YYZ- Regina YQR (via Calgary YYC) on AC recently & there were many people on the flight that were connecting to YQR and Saskatoon YXE & that some on the Regina flight missed their connection by just a few minutes & eventually got booked onto the late WestJet flight.
Likely with the help of Air Canada doing the rebooking part & WS accommodating them.

Yes, rebookings happen quite often. But since all bookings are/will be on the original S19 schedule, if they changed the flights just a couple of months in advance there would be a lot of rebookings to do, which would be rather uneccesary versus if they just changed their schedules with more advance notice like every other airline.

Given how poorly it went the last time YYZ shut a runway down all summer for maintenance (05-23 in 2017), I wonder if the delayed publishing is due to:

A) YYZ's next runway closure getting confirmed, resulting in a slot reduction (https://www.torontopearson.com/en/commu ... bilitation)
B) The new travel restrictions (removal of PCR test) resulting in more demand for travel outside the country

In either case, it's alot easier to come out of the gate with a plan than to publish what I assume they would have had originally planned before these factors came to light. But in saying that, with them now being the last out of the gate to publish, every day they wait is potential tickets sold to a competitor. I hope they publish S22 sooner than later.

Don't envy being a network planner in this climate! But sure is fun to watch.

Looking at the GDS, it appears there are some changes that weren't filed in the OAG. Like YYC-SFO is now just once daily in May. But they still have YYC-LON going from 4x weekly in late April to 11x weekly from May 1.

EDIT: Looks like it they have loaded a full update for the month of May, but just didn't file it in the OAG. YYC-DEN was further delayed to June.

But yes, the longer they take, the bigger the hole they put themselves in. Either in lost bookings or having more people to re-book if they choose to reduce certain routes. WS is the last remaining NA carrier to publish a Summer schedule.

Also the above example of AC accommodating people on WS flight typically happens in IROP situations. (Either miss-connections or a last minute flight cancellation). I was offered this when WS cancelled a YYZ bound flight (ironically during the last time they closed a runway). It wouldn't happen if the flight was cancelled weeks out.

Looks they finally filled their S22 update tonight.

YYZ-ORD is being added May 19 daily on Encore.

hollywoodcory wrote:

Looks they finally filled their S22 update tonight.

YYZ-ORD is being added May 19 daily on Encore.

Any other new additions that you can see?

WS loaded some summer changes. Key ones:

YULYWG - OUT
YMMYYZ - OUT
MCOYVR - OUT
MCOYYT - OUT
YOWYYJ - OUT
YYZORD - NEW 1x daily DH4
YYCSNA - NEW 3x weekly 73W
YVRYKA - NEW 1x daily DH4
YYZLGW - from 7x to 9x weekly (added D26)

With quite a few cuts vs. last week's selling sked across various parts of the network.

346fetish wrote:

WS loaded some summer changes. Key ones:

YULYWG - OUT
YMMYYZ - OUT
MCOYVR - OUT
MCOYYT - OUT
YOWYYJ - OUT
YYZORD - NEW 1x daily DH4
YYCSNA - NEW 3x weekly 73W
YVRYKA - NEW 1x daily DH4
YYZLGW - from 7x to 9x weekly (added D26)

With quite a few cuts vs. last week's selling sked across various parts of the network.

Looks like SNA is year round then. Nice to see YKA added from YVR and ORD from YYZ.

346fetish wrote:

WS loaded some summer changes. Key ones:

YULYWG - OUT
YMMYYZ - OUT
MCOYVR - OUT
MCOYYT - OUT
YOWYYJ - OUT
YYZORD - NEW 1x daily DH4
YYCSNA - NEW 3x weekly 73W
YVRYKA - NEW 1x daily DH4
YYZLGW - from 7x to 9x weekly (added D26)

With quite a few cuts vs. last week's selling sked across various parts of the network.

In regards to the summer changes does there seem to be a lot of point-to-point capacity cut, or are WS hubs affected just as much?

S22 Europe changes:

YYC-LON - Combined 8x weekly (4x LHR / 4x LGW)
YYC-CDG - Up to 5x weekly
YYC-FCO - 3x weekly
YYC-DUB - 3x weekly
YYZ-LGW - Up to 9x weekly
YYZ-BCN - 3x weekly
YYZ-DUB - Up to 1x daily
YYZ-GLA - 4x weekly
YYZ-EDI - 3x weekly
YVR-LGW - 1x daily
YHZ-LGW - 6x weekly
YHZ-DUB - 3x weekly
YHZ-GLA - 3x weekly
YHZ-CDG - 4x weekly

hollywoodcory wrote:

S22 Europe changes:

YYC-LON - Combined 8x weekly (4x LHR / 4x LGW)
YYC-CDG - Up to 5x weekly
YYC-FCO - 3x weekly
YYC-DUB - 3x weekly
YYZ-LGW - Up to 9x weekly
YYZ-BCN - 3x weekly
YYZ-DUB - Up to 1x daily
YYZ-GLA - 4x weekly
YYZ-EDI - 3x weekly
YVR-LGW - 1x daily
YHZ-LGW - 6x weekly
YHZ-DUB - 3x weekly
YHZ-GLA - 3x weekly
YHZ-CDG - 4x weekly

Interesting. Domestic/transborder wise does S22 look (generally speaking) closer to the original S20 schedule or more like the current March/April schedule?

Domestic changes are rolling out, some seasonal markets have been reduced/season shortened

346fetish wrote:

WS loaded some summer changes. Key ones:

YULYWG - OUT
YMMYYZ - OUT
MCOYVR - OUT
MCOYYT - OUT
YOWYYJ - OUT
YYZORD - NEW 1x daily DH4
YYCSNA - NEW 3x weekly 73W
YVRYKA - NEW 1x daily DH4
YYZLGW - from 7x to 9x weekly (added D26)

With quite a few cuts vs. last week's selling sked across various parts of the network.

Sad to see YYT-MCO gone for the summer.

Not sure if the schedule isn't fully loaded in the GDS, but WS1/2 continues to be open for booking daily from May 1st. All other long haul changes filled in the OAG last night are now reflected in the booking system except for YYC-LGW.

whywhyzee wrote:

Domestic changes are rolling out, some seasonal markets have been reduced/season shortened

Yep & as WestJet continues to consolidate most its Domestic/ US/International flights through Calgary YYC, Toronto YYZ & Vancouver YVR.
I’m not too surprised to see some seasonal markets flights have been reduced/shortened.

Wow, flights really seem to be ramping up from June to July.

346fetish wrote:

WS loaded some summer changes. Key ones:

YULYWG - OUT
YMMYYZ - OUT
MCOYVR - OUT
MCOYYT - OUT
YOWYYJ - OUT
YYZORD - NEW 1x daily DH4
YYCSNA - NEW 3x weekly 73W
YVRYKA - NEW 1x daily DH4
YYZLGW - from 7x to 9x weekly (added D26)

With quite a few cuts vs. last week's selling sked across various parts of the network.

That'll make Flair happy to see YOW-YYJ cut as they launch YOW-YYJ...and with double the frequency to boot.

So the weak get even weaker at YUL.

Other than YEG-YOW, what other routes are getting fully Swoop'd?

Schedule is out.

https://www.westjet.com/en-ca/news/2022 ... ies-canada

whywhycee wrote:

Schedule is out.

https://www.westjet.com/en-ca/news/2022 ... ies-canada

Yep, Calgary YYC, Toronto YYZ ,Vancouver YVR & to a smaller extent Halifax YHZ will benefit the most from WestJet’s mainline flying this Summer 2022.

They litterally deserted YUL. Only 2x weekly YEG-YUL and 5x weekly YHZ-YUL on Encore, plus YWG getting pulled. Only 28 weekly flights out of YUL excluding YYZ, 77 including YYZ. They have more capacity out of Kelowna, a 132,000 pop. city than Montreal, an agglomeration of 4,000,000+.

Juju2004 wrote:

They litterally deserted YUL. Only 2x weekly YEG-YUL and 5x weekly YHZ-YUL on Encore, plus YWG getting pulled. Only 28 weekly flights out of YUL excluding YYZ, 77 including YYZ. They have more capacity out of Kelowna, a 132,000 pop. city than Montreal, an agglomeration of 4,000,000+.

Their weakness at YUL has been widely commented on here over the years. You are correct that it seems to be getting worse. Considering that YYC and YVR are the Westjet birthplaces/home bases it is surprising to see how AC dominates YYC/YVR-YUL and that now Flair is pushing them aside as well.

I looked at options on Jun.1 as a random date;

YYC-YUL is 3 x daily AC (789/223/7M8) and 1 x daily Westjet (7M8).
YVR-YUL is 5 x daily AC (333/77W and 3 x 7M8). Westjet is zero and Flair is 1 x daily.

Total 8 x daily AC (including 3 widebodies), 1 x daily Westjet and 1 x daily Flair.

YEG is similar to Calgary.

AC also offers Victoria/Kelowna/Regina/Winnipeg and Saskatoon to YUL while Westjet offers nada in those markets.

I suspect it gets even more lopsided later in the summer when frequencies increase.

There are members here (typically from AB) who pooh, pooh the underperformance of Westjet in the YUL market but this is a far bigger miss than I expected after looking at the data. Can't western Canadians even fill one daily flight from the 3rd and 4th largest cities in Canada to the 2nd most populous?

I suppose they will deploy capacity elsewhere but the fact that even Flair is pushing them aside in YUL is telling.

Oh well, I guess I'll be flying AC yet again when I visit YVR again later this summer. Nice to have so many options with them.

Skywatcher wrote:

Juju2004 wrote:

They litterally deserted YUL. Only 2x weekly YEG-YUL and 5x weekly YHZ-YUL on Encore, plus YWG getting pulled. Only 28 weekly flights out of YUL excluding YYZ, 77 including YYZ. They have more capacity out of Kelowna, a 132,000 pop. city than Montreal, an agglomeration of 4,000,000+.

Their weakness at YUL has been widely commented on here over the years. You are correct that it seems to be getting worse. Considering that YYC and YVR are the Westjet birthplaces/home bases it is surprising to see how AC dominates YYC/YVR-YUL and that now Flair is pushing them aside as well.

I looked at options on Jun.1 as a random date;

YYC-YUL is 3 x daily AC (789/223/7M8) and 1 x daily Westjet (7M8).
YVR-YUL is 5 x daily AC (333/77W and 3 x 7M8). Westjet is zero and Flair is 1 x daily.

Total 8 x daily AC (including 3 widebodies), 1 x daily Westjet and 1 x daily Flair.

YEG is similar to Calgary.

AC also offers Victoria/Kelowna/Regina/Winnipeg and Saskatoon to YUL while Westjet offers nada in those markets.

I suspect it gets even more lopsided later in the summer when frequencies increase.

There are members here (typically from AB) who pooh, pooh the underperformance of Westjet in the YUL market but this is a far bigger miss than I expected after looking at the data. Can't western Canadians even fill one daily flight from the 3rd and 4th largest cities in Canada to the 2nd most populous?

I suppose they will deploy capacity elsewhere but the fact that even Flair is pushing them aside in YUL is telling.

Oh well, I guess I'll be flying AC yet again when I visit YVR again later this summer. Nice to have so many options with them.

In July YYC-YUL goes up to 2x daily on WS and YVR-YUL starts with daily flights. YUL has always been an incredibly weak market for WS. I don't think that will change. WS is quite Calgary/western-centric, which sucks for any market east for YYZ (except YHZ), but they seem to be decently successful at what they're doing. They don't have to be everything for everyone.
In what ways/how do you think WS should try to compete in Quebec more?

I think the only way for Westjet to compete in YUL is to go Swoop. I believe that's what they've done in YYC/YVR-YOW.

I just looked at YYC/YVR-YOW on the same date (Jun.1);

YYC-YOW is 2 x daily AC (320/223) and 2 x daily Westjet (I think it's Swoop but can't tell from the online tool I used). Flair was nil.
YVR-YOW was 2 x daily AC (7M8/321) while Westjet was 1 x daily and Flair 1 x daily.

This market seems more competitive/balanced. Is it government contracts? Is it more westerners flying to YOW than YUL (although only 25% comparable metro population of which close to a third is Franco)? If it's a language thing there are more Anglophones in YUL than in YOW which includes Gatineau.

I think they simply screwed it up and need to re-brand.

One other likely factor is the incredibly low number of Albertans who ever venture into Quebec. There are far, far more Quebecers that go the other way. I'll never forget meeting a young couple in an Old Montreal pub just before covid who were doing a "long week-end romantic getaway" from Edmonton. They were having a great time (pretty soused) and I said to them at one point "your friends likely think you're crazy coming here". They agreed and noted how wrong their perception had been before they ventured on the trip. I suspect they are rare exceptions from what I've seen visiting AB many times and even living there for awhile. Very narrow, even hostile view of Quebec in general. Oh well, that's Canada with it's ugly regionalism.

I think we will see Westjet add capacity to QC , either when the TS codesharing begins or once/if the WG acquisition is concluded. And with fuel prices expected to get even worse, QC is simply not worth their money right now. Lots of capacity reductions are to come, the US carriers are certainly pulling capacity due to the fuel pricing.

Skywatcher wrote:

I think the only way for Westjet to compete in YUL is to go Swoop. I believe that's what they've done in YYC/YVR-YOW.

I just looked at YYC/YVR-YOW on the same date (Jun.1);

YYC-YOW is 2 x daily AC (320/223) and 2 x daily Westjet (I think it's Swoop but can't tell from the online tool I used). Flair was nil.
YVR-YOW was 2 x daily AC (7M8/321) while Westjet was 1 x daily and Flair 1 x daily.

This market seems more competitive/balanced. Is it government contracts? Is it more westerners flying to YOW than YUL (although only 25% comparable metro population of which close to a third is Franco)?

.

Emm.. no YVR/YYC -YOW is done with WS , not WO

Skywatcher wrote:

Juju2004 wrote:

There are members here (typically from AB) who pooh, pooh the underperformance of Westjet in the YUL market but this is a far bigger miss than I expected after looking at the data. Can't western Canadians even fill one daily flight from the 3rd and 4th largest cities in Canada to the 2nd most populous?

I suppose they will deploy capacity elsewhere but the fact that even Flair is pushing them aside in YUL is telling.

Oh well, I guess I'll be flying AC yet again when I visit YVR again later this summer. Nice to have so many options with them.

Don't assume all from Alberta are WestJet fans! Especially anyone outside of Calgary... their treatment to Edmonton has been on a constant downward spiral and most Edmontonians are fed up with their ongoing underservice and attempt to route all travel through Calgary.

YEGFlyer wrote:

Skywatcher wrote:

Juju2004 wrote:

There are members here (typically from AB) who pooh, pooh the underperformance of Westjet in the YUL market but this is a far bigger miss than I expected after looking at the data. Can't western Canadians even fill one daily flight from the 3rd and 4th largest cities in Canada to the 2nd most populous?

I suppose they will deploy capacity elsewhere but the fact that even Flair is pushing them aside in YUL is telling.

Oh well, I guess I'll be flying AC yet again when I visit YVR again later this summer. Nice to have so many options with them.

Don't assume all from Alberta are WestJet fans! Especially anyone outside of Calgary... their treatment to Edmonton has been on a constant downward spiral and most Edmontonians are fed up with their ongoing underservice and attempt to route all travel through Calgary.

Well Flair could become their next full service airline. Edmonton is poised to become a global city in 100 years time perhaps.

YEGFlyer wrote:

Skywatcher wrote:

Juju2004 wrote:

There are members here (typically from AB) who pooh, pooh the underperformance of Westjet in the YUL market but this is a far bigger miss than I expected after looking at the data. Can't western Canadians even fill one daily flight from the 3rd and 4th largest cities in Canada to the 2nd most populous?

I suppose they will deploy capacity elsewhere but the fact that even Flair is pushing them aside in YUL is telling.

Oh well, I guess I'll be flying AC yet again when I visit YVR again later this summer. Nice to have so many options with them.

Don't assume all from Alberta are WestJet fans! Especially anyone outside of Calgary... their treatment to Edmonton has been on a constant downward spiral and most Edmontonians are fed up with their ongoing underservice and attempt to route all travel through Calgary.

Of course WestJet is going to consolidate Edmonton & most flights ✈️through Calgary as that's their main hub, along with Toronto YYZ , Vancouver YVR & to smaller extent Halifax YHZ.
I'm from the Edmonton area too and have no problem with it as "not great for planes to fly empty" means WestJet & most Airlines need to consolidate flights through main hubs/bases whether people like it or not.

My family & I won’t use Flair or Swoop when travelling both their OTP is quite bad & we need to be On Time for our connecting flights ✈️from Domestic to Internationally or the US destinations. We will continue to fly with WestJet or Air Canada as both of their OTP is better✅!!

I don't get why consolidating through hubs is the solution to everything... they could just establish sub-daily services to cover the demand on direct flights, a model that has been proven many times.

Skywatcher wrote:

I think the only way for Westjet to compete in YUL is to go Swoop. I believe that's what they've done in YYC/YVR-YOW.

I just looked at YYC/YVR-YOW on the same date (Jun.1);

YYC-YOW is 2 x daily AC (320/223) and 2 x daily Westjet (I think it's Swoop but can't tell from the online tool I used). Flair was nil.
YVR-YOW was 2 x daily AC (7M8/321) while Westjet was 1 x daily and Flair 1 x daily.

This market seems more competitive/balanced. Is it government contracts? Is it more westerners flying to YOW than YUL (although only 25% comparable metro population of which close to a third is Franco)? If it's a language thing there are more Anglophones in YUL than in YOW which includes Gatineau.

I think they simply screwed it up and need to re-brand.

One other likely factor is the incredibly low number of Albertans who ever venture into Quebec. There are far, far more Quebecers that go the other way. I'll never forget meeting a young couple in an Old Montreal pub just before covid who were doing a "long week-end romantic getaway" from Edmonton. They were having a great time (pretty soused) and I said to them at one point "your friends likely think you're crazy coming here". They agreed and noted how wrong their perception had been before they ventured on the trip. I suspect they are rare exceptions from what I've seen visiting AB many times and even living there for awhile. Very narrow, even hostile view of Quebec in general. Oh well, that's Canada with it's ugly regionalism.

You're right. Minor correction but Swoop doesn't operate out of YYC at all.