Nashville Aviation Thread - 2022

SimpleMan · Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:31 pm

Interesting article this morning from the Tennessean as far as the top domestic and international markets that BNA is targeting, according to Nashville International Airport CEO Doug Kreulen -

Top domestic targets
1.) Portland, OR
2.) Fort Myes, FL
3.) Sacramento, CA
4.) Orange County, CA
5.) Hartford, CT

Top International targets
1.) Tokyo
2.) Dublin
3.) Rome
4.) South America

IMO, for international targets, I would assume Frankfort, Paris and Amsterdam would have made the list. SNA and and BDL end next year.
https://www.tennessean.com/story/money/ ... 520328007/

Jshank83 · Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:28 pm

SimpleMan wrote:
Interesting article this morning from the Tennessean as far as the top domestic and international markets that BNA is targeting, according to Nashville International Airport CEO Doug Kreulen -

Top domestic targets
1.) Portland, OR
2.) Fort Myes, FL
3.) Sacramento, CA
4.) Orange County, CA
5.) Hartford, CT

Top International targets
1.) Tokyo
2.) Dublin
3.) Rome
4.) South America

IMO, for international targets, I would assume Frankfort, Paris and Amsterdam would have made the list. SNA and and BDL end next year.
https://www.tennessean.com/story/money/ ... 520328007/

BNA doesn’t have a flight to RSW? That’s shocking

SimpleMan · Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:32 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
SimpleMan wrote:
Interesting article this morning from the Tennessean as far as the top domestic and international markets that BNA is targeting, according to Nashville International Airport CEO Doug Kreulen -

Top domestic targets
1.) Portland, OR
2.) Fort Myes, FL
3.) Sacramento, CA
4.) Orange County, CA
5.) Hartford, CT

Top International targets
1.) Tokyo
2.) Dublin
3.) Rome
4.) South America

IMO, for international targets, I would assume Frankfort, Paris and Amsterdam would have made the list. SNA and and BDL end next year.
https://www.tennessean.com/story/money/ ... 520328007/

BNA doesn’t have a flight to RSW? That’s shocking

RSW also ends in April.
https://www.flightconnections.com/fligh ... hville-bna

Jshank83 · Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:33 pm

SimpleMan wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
SimpleMan wrote:
Interesting article this morning from the Tennessean as far as the top domestic and international markets that BNA is targeting, according to Nashville International Airport CEO Doug Kreulen -

Top domestic targets
1.) Portland, OR
2.) Fort Myes, FL
3.) Sacramento, CA
4.) Orange County, CA
5.) Hartford, CT

Top International targets
1.) Tokyo
2.) Dublin
3.) Rome
4.) South America

IMO, for international targets, I would assume Frankfort, Paris and Amsterdam would have made the list. SNA and and BDL end next year.
https://www.tennessean.com/story/money/ ... 520328007/

BNA doesn’t have a flight to RSW? That’s shocking

RSW also ends in April.
https://www.flightconnections.com/fligh ... hville-bna

I’d guess that is because WN only is scheduled into April. So any route they are the only one on will end by April at the moment.

southwest1675 · Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:44 pm

I’m obviously not an expert here, but I’m shocked the MNAA is still pushing hard for Asia service. I think COVID put those hopes on hold for years to come. I do know TN does have surprisingly strong ties to Asia, but without a lot of incentives from the businesses, I don’t see this flight happening until 8-10 years down the road. That’s also if ever.

I’d personally love to see Lufthansa add FRA next. Which apparently has been rumored they’ve had a few talks with the MNAA.

sonnyr23 · Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:45 pm

RSW has always been a seasonal route for Southwest. Should be a permanent route

southwest1675 · Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:47 pm

sonnyr23 wrote:
RSW has always been a seasonal route for Southwest. Should be a permanent route

I think it became permanent at one point, but went back to seasonal as a consequence to COVID.

PBI was also a COVID cut.

miguel0881 · Wed Sep 28, 2022 2:09 pm

SimpleMan wrote:
Interesting article this morning from the Tennessean as far as the top domestic and international markets that BNA is targeting, according to Nashville International Airport CEO Doug Kreulen -

Top domestic targets
1.) Portland, OR
2.) Fort Myes, FL
3.) Sacramento, CA
4.) Orange County, CA
5.) Hartford, CT

Top International targets
1.) Tokyo
2.) Dublin
3.) Rome
4.) South America

IMO, for international targets, I would assume Frankfort, Paris and Amsterdam would have made the list. SNA and and BDL end next year.
https://www.tennessean.com/story/money/ ... 520328007/

FYI, it’s Frankfurt SimpleMan. Frankfort is in Kentucky.

miguel0881 · Wed Sep 28, 2022 2:21 pm

SimpleMan wrote:
Interesting article this morning from the Tennessean as far as the top domestic and international markets that BNA is targeting, according to Nashville International Airport CEO Doug Kreulen -

Top domestic targets
1.) Portland, OR
2.) Fort Myes, FL
3.) Sacramento, CA
4.) Orange County, CA
5.) Hartford, CT

Top International targets
1.) Tokyo
2.) Dublin
3.) Rome
4.) South America

IMO, for international targets, I would assume Frankfort, Paris and Amsterdam would have made the list. SNA and and BDL end next year.
https://www.tennessean.com/story/money/ ... 520328007/

I love how they just say “South America.” Like, where in South America? GRU? SCL? BOG? EZE? Because those are very different markets. You can almost see the MNAA folks around the conference room table throwing out ideas, without the slightest clue of what or where these places are. Most big cities have minimal, if any, service to South America, and BNA thinks it’s a realistic goal? Do they maybe mean a WN or NK flight to SJO or LIR? Because that’s not South America, although perhaps more realistic.

SimpleMan · Wed Sep 28, 2022 2:22 pm

miguel0881 wrote:
SimpleMan wrote:
Interesting article this morning from the Tennessean as far as the top domestic and international markets that BNA is targeting, according to Nashville International Airport CEO Doug Kreulen -

Top domestic targets
1.) Portland, OR
2.) Fort Myes, FL
3.) Sacramento, CA
4.) Orange County, CA
5.) Hartford, CT

Top International targets
1.) Tokyo
2.) Dublin
3.) Rome
4.) South America

IMO, for international targets, I would assume Frankfort, Paris and Amsterdam would have made the list. SNA and and BDL end next year.
https://www.tennessean.com/story/money/ ... 520328007/

FYI, it’s Frankfurt SimpleMan. Frankfort is in Kentucky.

I am aware of the differences in the cities miguel0881. Perhaps a fat finger in the early AM. Thanks again.

uconn99 · Wed Sep 28, 2022 9:12 pm

SimpleMan wrote:
Interesting article this morning from the Tennessean as far as the top domestic and international markets that BNA is targeting, according to Nashville International Airport CEO Doug Kreulen -

Top domestic targets
1.) Portland, OR
2.) Fort Myes, FL
3.) Sacramento, CA
4.) Orange County, CA
5.) Hartford, CT

Top International targets
1.) Tokyo
2.) Dublin
3.) Rome
4.) South America

IMO, for international targets, I would assume Frankfort, Paris and Amsterdam would have made the list. SNA and and BDL end next year.
https://www.tennessean.com/story/money/ ... 520328007/

How old is this list? WN (started March 2021) and MX (March 2022) fly BNA-BDL currently.

Cubsrule · Wed Sep 28, 2022 9:22 pm

miguel0881 wrote:
SimpleMan wrote:
Interesting article this morning from the Tennessean as far as the top domestic and international markets that BNA is targeting, according to Nashville International Airport CEO Doug Kreulen -

Top domestic targets
1.) Portland, OR
2.) Fort Myes, FL
3.) Sacramento, CA
4.) Orange County, CA
5.) Hartford, CT

Top International targets
1.) Tokyo
2.) Dublin
3.) Rome
4.) South America

IMO, for international targets, I would assume Frankfort, Paris and Amsterdam would have made the list. SNA and and BDL end next year.
https://www.tennessean.com/story/money/ ... 520328007/

I love how they just say “South America.” Like, where in South America? GRU? SCL? BOG? EZE? Because those are very different markets. You can almost see the MNAA folks around the conference room table throwing out ideas, without the slightest clue of what or where these places are. Most big cities have minimal, if any, service to South America, and BNA thinks it’s a realistic goal? Do they maybe mean a WN or NK flight to SJO or LIR? Because that’s not South America, although perhaps more realistic.

I'm not sure why you assume that MNAA can't read a map, although your contempt for any level of international expansion at BNA is well documented. Anyway, the list makes no sense after TYO (which is a sensible number one) and I assume that that's because of lousy reporting by the Tennessean, like 90+ percent of what they publish.

miguel0881 · Wed Sep 28, 2022 10:27 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
miguel0881 wrote:
SimpleMan wrote:
Interesting article this morning from the Tennessean as far as the top domestic and international markets that BNA is targeting, according to Nashville International Airport CEO Doug Kreulen -

Top domestic targets
1.) Portland, OR
2.) Fort Myes, FL
3.) Sacramento, CA
4.) Orange County, CA
5.) Hartford, CT

Top International targets
1.) Tokyo
2.) Dublin
3.) Rome
4.) South America

IMO, for international targets, I would assume Frankfort, Paris and Amsterdam would have made the list. SNA and and BDL end next year.
https://www.tennessean.com/story/money/ ... 520328007/

I love how they just say “South America.” Like, where in South America? GRU? SCL? BOG? EZE? Because those are very different markets. You can almost see the MNAA folks around the conference room table throwing out ideas, without the slightest clue of what or where these places are. Most big cities have minimal, if any, service to South America, and BNA thinks it’s a realistic goal? Do they maybe mean a WN or NK flight to SJO or LIR? Because that’s not South America, although perhaps more realistic.

I'm not sure why you assume that MNAA can't read a map, although your contempt for any level of international expansion at BNA is well documented. Anyway, the list makes no sense after TYO (which is a sensible number one) and I assume that that's because of lousy reporting by the Tennessean, like 90+ percent of what they publish.

No contempt for reasonable international expansion, but yes, I am skeptical of airport planners who can’t specify an actual destination on a huge continent. Why is everyone here so sensitive?

Cubsrule · Wed Sep 28, 2022 10:55 pm

miguel0881 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
miguel0881 wrote:

I love how they just say “South America.” Like, where in South America? GRU? SCL? BOG? EZE? Because those are very different markets. You can almost see the MNAA folks around the conference room table throwing out ideas, without the slightest clue of what or where these places are. Most big cities have minimal, if any, service to South America, and BNA thinks it’s a realistic goal? Do they maybe mean a WN or NK flight to SJO or LIR? Because that’s not South America, although perhaps more realistic.

I'm not sure why you assume that MNAA can't read a map, although your contempt for any level of international expansion at BNA is well documented. Anyway, the list makes no sense after TYO (which is a sensible number one) and I assume that that's because of lousy reporting by the Tennessean, like 90+ percent of what they publish.

No contempt for reasonable international expansion, but yes, I am skeptical of airport planners who can’t specify an actual destination on a huge continent. Why is everyone here so sensitive?

As am I, but MNAA have a pretty good record of air service development and the Tennessean is, well, the Tennessean so I’m not sure why we would assume that the list was reported accurately. Do you really believe that MNAA is so incompetent that they’d put a market with nonstop service on two LFCs on a wish list? I don’t.

Jshank83 · Wed Sep 28, 2022 11:59 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
miguel0881 wrote:
SimpleMan wrote:
Interesting article this morning from the Tennessean as far as the top domestic and international markets that BNA is targeting, according to Nashville International Airport CEO Doug Kreulen -

Top domestic targets
1.) Portland, OR
2.) Fort Myes, FL
3.) Sacramento, CA
4.) Orange County, CA
5.) Hartford, CT

Top International targets
1.) Tokyo
2.) Dublin
3.) Rome
4.) South America

IMO, for international targets, I would assume Frankfort, Paris and Amsterdam would have made the list. SNA and and BDL end next year.
https://www.tennessean.com/story/money/ ... 520328007/

I love how they just say “South America.” Like, where in South America? GRU? SCL? BOG? EZE? Because those are very different markets. You can almost see the MNAA folks around the conference room table throwing out ideas, without the slightest clue of what or where these places are. Most big cities have minimal, if any, service to South America, and BNA thinks it’s a realistic goal? Do they maybe mean a WN or NK flight to SJO or LIR? Because that’s not South America, although perhaps more realistic.

I'm not sure why you assume that MNAA can't read a map, although your contempt for any level of international expansion at BNA is well documented. Anyway, the list makes no sense after TYO (which is a sensible number one) and I assume that that's because of lousy reporting by the Tennessean, like 90+ percent of what they publish.

I think DUB makes sense. Rome on the other hand… not so much.

SLCaviation · Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:01 am

Jshank83 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
miguel0881 wrote:

I love how they just say “South America.” Like, where in South America? GRU? SCL? BOG? EZE? Because those are very different markets. You can almost see the MNAA folks around the conference room table throwing out ideas, without the slightest clue of what or where these places are. Most big cities have minimal, if any, service to South America, and BNA thinks it’s a realistic goal? Do they maybe mean a WN or NK flight to SJO or LIR? Because that’s not South America, although perhaps more realistic.

I'm not sure why you assume that MNAA can't read a map, although your contempt for any level of international expansion at BNA is well documented. Anyway, the list makes no sense after TYO (which is a sensible number one) and I assume that that's because of lousy reporting by the Tennessean, like 90+ percent of what they publish.

I think DUB makes sense. Rome on the other hand… not so much.

Yeah I could name DOZENS of cities that would get FCO first but the thing is, most of those cities won’t even get FCO. DTW just barely got FCO.

SimpleMan · Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:06 am

SimpleMan wrote:
Interesting article this morning from the Tennessean a far as the top domestic and international markets that BNA is targeting, according to Nashville International Airport CEO Doug Kreulen -

Top domestic targets
1.) Portland, OR
2.) Fort Myes, FL
3.) Sacramento, CA
4.) Orange County, CA
5.) Hartford, CT

Top International targets
1.) Tokyo
2.) Dublin
3.) Rome
4.) South America

IMO, for international targets, I would assume Frankfurt, Paris and Amsterdam would have made the list. SNA and and BDL end next year.
https://www.tennessean.com/story/money/ ... 520328007/

miguel0881 · Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:15 am

Cubsrule wrote:
miguel0881 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

I'm not sure why you assume that MNAA can't read a map, although your contempt for any level of international expansion at BNA is well documented. Anyway, the list makes no sense after TYO (which is a sensible number one) and I assume that that's because of lousy reporting by the Tennessean, like 90+ percent of what they publish.

No contempt for reasonable international expansion, but yes, I am skeptical of airport planners who can’t specify an actual destination on a huge continent. Why is everyone here so sensitive?

As am I, but MNAA have a pretty good record of air service development and the Tennessean is, well, the Tennessean so I’m not sure why we would assume that the list was reported accurately. Do you really believe that MNAA is so incompetent that they’d put a market with nonstop service on two LFCs on a wish list? I don’t.

Fair enough, it’s entirely possible the Tennessean misreported the destinations. I don’t know why MNAA would be shooting for any of these destinations. Maybe DUB (or KEF) could work on a summer basis as I think there is some market for low cost European flights for the summer months. But really I think BNA should be aiming for Caribbean and Central American destinations that WN might serve. That seems to be a much more likely proposition, especially in the short term. As BNA has no network feed, I don’t know who would possibly ever serve TYO, FCO, or other similar destinations.

usflyer msp · Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:59 am

Jshank83 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
miguel0881 wrote:

I love how they just say “South America.” Like, where in South America? GRU? SCL? BOG? EZE? Because those are very different markets. You can almost see the MNAA folks around the conference room table throwing out ideas, without the slightest clue of what or where these places are. Most big cities have minimal, if any, service to South America, and BNA thinks it’s a realistic goal? Do they maybe mean a WN or NK flight to SJO or LIR? Because that’s not South America, although perhaps more realistic.

I'm not sure why you assume that MNAA can't read a map, although your contempt for any level of international expansion at BNA is well documented. Anyway, the list makes no sense after TYO (which is a sensible number one) and I assume that that's because of lousy reporting by the Tennessean, like 90+ percent of what they publish.

I think DUB makes sense. Rome on the other hand… not so much.

Look at how many Christian religious organizations are based in Middle TN and you will understand the desire for Rome. I'm not saying there really is a market but I can understand the request.

AVLAirlineFreq · Thu Sep 29, 2022 1:46 am

Unless there's a compelling business reason (Tokyo) or a popular leisure destination served by an airline that appears to be interested in expansion (DUB or KEF, perhaps), why wouldn't BNA be most interested in a destination like AMS or CDG that offers tremendous connectivity?

alo2yyz · Thu Sep 29, 2022 1:58 am

usflyer msp wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

I'm not sure why you assume that MNAA can't read a map, although your contempt for any level of international expansion at BNA is well documented. Anyway, the list makes no sense after TYO (which is a sensible number one) and I assume that that's because of lousy reporting by the Tennessean, like 90+ percent of what they publish.

I think DUB makes sense. Rome on the other hand… not so much.

Look at how many Christian religious organizations are based in Middle TN and you will understand the desire for Rome. I'm not saying there really is a market but I can understand the request.

By that logic, MNAA left TLV off their list....

Cubsrule · Thu Sep 29, 2022 2:21 am

miguel0881 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
miguel0881 wrote:

No contempt for reasonable international expansion, but yes, I am skeptical of airport planners who can’t specify an actual destination on a huge continent. Why is everyone here so sensitive?

As am I, but MNAA have a pretty good record of air service development and the Tennessean is, well, the Tennessean so I’m not sure why we would assume that the list was reported accurately. Do you really believe that MNAA is so incompetent that they’d put a market with nonstop service on two LFCs on a wish list? I don’t.

Fair enough, it’s entirely possible the Tennessean misreported the destinations. I don’t know why MNAA would be shooting for any of these destinations. Maybe DUB (or KEF) could work on a summer basis as I think there is some market for low cost European flights for the summer months. But really I think BNA should be aiming for Caribbean and Central American destinations that WN might serve. That seems to be a much more likely proposition, especially in the short term. As BNA has no network feed, I don’t know who would possibly ever serve TYO, FCO, or other similar destinations.

If someone gets interested in secondary US-TYO, BNA will be near the top of that list. BNA-TYO is a stronger market than AUS/RDU-TYO, for instance. That's a very big "If," especially in a post-COVID world, but I think keeping TYO on the development radar is sensible.

I imagine that any focus on DUB is somewhat opportunistic, based on EI showing interest in secondary markets. Perhaps the same is true of KEF based on whatever incarnation of Wow is currently sniffing around.

alo2yyz wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:

I think DUB makes sense. Rome on the other hand… not so much.

Look at how many Christian religious organizations are based in Middle TN and you will understand the desire for Rome. I'm not saying there really is a market but I can understand the request.

By that logic, MNAA left TLV off their list....

While neither is very large, I'll guarantee that the religious demand to TLV is several times the religious demand to FCO. None of the religious organizations in Nashville (other than, obviously, the Diocese) is Roman Catholic.

UALFAson · Thu Sep 29, 2022 2:57 am

AVLAirlineFreq wrote:
Unless there's a compelling business reason (Tokyo) or a popular leisure destination served by an airline that appears to be interested in expansion (DUB or KEF, perhaps), why wouldn't BNA be most interested in a destination like AMS or CDG that offers tremendous connectivity?

AMS and/or CDG would have been my first thought as well. Wasn't it basically a done deal that DL was going to announce one of those cities before COVID hit? Seems like another European hub with connecting service to other European destinations along with the Middle East and other points east would be a winner for the high-income leisure and VFR ethic populations in Nashville?

SimpleMan · Fri Sep 30, 2022 10:05 pm

UALFAson wrote:
AVLAirlineFreq wrote:
Unless there's a compelling business reason (Tokyo) or a popular leisure destination served by an airline that appears to be interested in expansion (DUB or KEF, perhaps), why wouldn't BNA be most interested in a destination like AMS or CDG that offers tremendous connectivity?

AMS and/or CDG would have been my first thought as well. Wasn't it basically a done deal that DL was going to announce one of those cities before COVID hit? Seems like another European hub with connecting service to other European destinations along with the Middle East and other points east would be a winner for the high-income leisure and VFR ethic populations in Nashville?

That would seem the most logical destinations if one looks at other comparable cities. Sometimes these other cities start off with -
DE (PHX, PDX, MSP)
WK (TPA, SAN, MCO, LAS, DEN)
FL (BWI, BOS, ORD, DEN, SEA, RDU, MCO, PDX, MSP)
EL (MCO, CLE, PHL)

and then migrate up to legacy carriers.

miguel0881 · Sat Oct 01, 2022 9:55 am

SimpleMan wrote:
UALFAson wrote:
AVLAirlineFreq wrote:
Unless there's a compelling business reason (Tokyo) or a popular leisure destination served by an airline that appears to be interested in expansion (DUB or KEF, perhaps), why wouldn't BNA be most interested in a destination like AMS or CDG that offers tremendous connectivity?

AMS and/or CDG would have been my first thought as well. Wasn't it basically a done deal that DL was going to announce one of those cities before COVID hit? Seems like another European hub with connecting service to other European destinations along with the Middle East and other points east would be a winner for the high-income leisure and VFR ethic populations in Nashville?

That would seem the most logical destinations if one looks at other comparable cities. Sometimes these other cities start off with -
DE (PHX, PDX, MSP)
WK (TPA, SAN, MCO, LAS, DEN)
FL (BWI, BOS, ORD, DEN, SEA, RDU, MCO, PDX, MSP)
EL (MCO, CLE, PHL)

and then migrate up to legacy carriers.

Maybe FL or EI will start seasonal service at some point. Maybe. But I highly doubt it. I think the issue is that even though BNA is a very popular tourist destination in the US and Canada, it’s almost entirely unknown in Europe, beyond some die hard music fans in the UK and Germany. When I mention Nashville in Europe, no one has really heard of it beyond some vague notion of it being the home of country music and not far from where Jack Daniels is produced when you really press them. So certainly not a LAS, SAN, or MCO, which they of course know very well.

Add to that, it doesn’t seem to me that most locals in BNA vacation in or travel to Europe with any regularity (certainly not like you find in Chicago, DC, and other major metro areas). And yes, of course there is ethnic traffic, but that is going beyond any point that BNA would serve directly. And so while I see some of that on the existing BA flight, they’re connecting anyway, and so it doesn’t really matter whether they do so at LHR (or CDG or FRA) or ORD or JFK.

All of that combined does not make BNA a good market for more Europe service. Again, I do think SJO, LIR, SDQ, GCM, AUA, SXM, and maybe even BDA or BGI would be very popular destinations from BNA, and if the service was there, I think they would do well. That should be MNAA’s short term goal I think, not some low cost Europe fights to DUB or KEF.

SimpleMan · Sat Oct 01, 2022 11:46 am

miguel0881 wrote:
SimpleMan wrote:
UALFAson wrote:

AMS and/or CDG would have been my first thought as well. Wasn't it basically a done deal that DL was going to announce one of those cities before COVID hit? Seems like another European hub with connecting service to other European destinations along with the Middle East and other points east would be a winner for the high-income leisure and VFR ethic populations in Nashville?

That would seem the most logical destinations if one looks at other comparable cities. Sometimes these other cities start off with -
DE (PHX, PDX, MSP)
WK (TPA, SAN, MCO, LAS, DEN)
FL (BWI, BOS, ORD, DEN, SEA, RDU, MCO, PDX, MSP)
EL (MCO, CLE, PHL)

and then migrate up to legacy carriers.

Maybe FL or EI will start seasonal service at some point. Maybe. But I highly doubt it. I think the issue is that even though BNA is a very popular tourist destination in the US and Canada, it’s almost entirely unknown in Europe, beyond some die hard music fans in the UK and Germany. When I mention Nashville in Europe, no one has really heard of it beyond some vague notion of it being the home of country music and not far from where Jack Daniels is produced when you really press them. So certainly not a LAS, SAN, or MCO, which they of course know very well.

Add to that, it doesn’t seem to me that most locals in BNA vacation in or travel to Europe with any regularity (certainly not like you find in Chicago, DC, and other major metro areas). And yes, of course there is ethnic traffic, but that is going beyond any point that BNA would serve directly. And so while I see some of that on the existing BA flight, they’re connecting anyway, and so it doesn’t really matter whether they do so at LHR (or CDG or FRA) or ORD or JFK.

All of that combined does not make BNA a good market for more Europe service. Again, I do think SJO, LIR, SDQ, GCM, AUA, SXM, and maybe even BDA or BGI would be very popular destinations from BNA, and if the service was there, I think they would do well. That should be MNAA’s short term goal I think, not some low cost Europe fights to DUB or KEF.

Thank you for your comment. If BNA is not successful in landing a ULCC to Europe, then let's see what WN does with their recent hire of a Senior Manager Airline Partnerships. Granted, WN had prior partnerships with Volaris and WestJet but those did not pan out and one (1) would think that WN would start out with a (renewed) partnership with a Canadian or Mexican ULCC before going further.

sonnyr23 · Sat Oct 01, 2022 1:28 pm

Southwest was going to enter a Code Share agreement with West Jet years ago but it never came to be. Delta came in and became partners with West Jet.

Runway765 · Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:36 pm

SimpleMan wrote:
UALFAson wrote:
AVLAirlineFreq wrote:
Unless there's a compelling business reason (Tokyo) or a popular leisure destination served by an airline that appears to be interested in expansion (DUB or KEF, perhaps), why wouldn't BNA be most interested in a destination like AMS or CDG that offers tremendous connectivity?

AMS and/or CDG would have been my first thought as well. Wasn't it basically a done deal that DL was going to announce one of those cities before COVID hit? Seems like another European hub with connecting service to other European destinations along with the Middle East and other points east would be a winner for the high-income leisure and VFR ethic populations in Nashville?

That would seem the most logical destinations if one looks at other comparable cities. Sometimes these other cities start off with -
DE (PHX, PDX, MSP)
WK (TPA, SAN, MCO, LAS, DEN)
FL (BWI, BOS, ORD, DEN, SEA, RDU, MCO, PDX, MSP)
EL (MCO, CLE, PHL)

and then migrate up to legacy carriers.

Honestly, the likes of FI and EI are good fits for BNA since they would use narrowbodies, though the latter may not happen because IAG owns EI and they may not want it competing with BA.

Europe-wise, I now see FI, LH and VS as slam dunks for future growth. Not sure what could be done beyond that though. BNA has been, and will continue to be primarily a domestic airport.

miguel0881 · Sat Oct 01, 2022 9:29 pm

Runway765 wrote:
SimpleMan wrote:
UALFAson wrote:

AMS and/or CDG would have been my first thought as well. Wasn't it basically a done deal that DL was going to announce one of those cities before COVID hit? Seems like another European hub with connecting service to other European destinations along with the Middle East and other points east would be a winner for the high-income leisure and VFR ethic populations in Nashville?

That would seem the most logical destinations if one looks at other comparable cities. Sometimes these other cities start off with -
DE (PHX, PDX, MSP)
WK (TPA, SAN, MCO, LAS, DEN)
FL (BWI, BOS, ORD, DEN, SEA, RDU, MCO, PDX, MSP)
EL (MCO, CLE, PHL)

and then migrate up to legacy carriers.

Honestly, the likes of FI and EI are good fits for BNA since they would use narrowbodies, though the latter may not happen because IAG owns EI and they may not want it competing with BA.

Europe-wise, I now see FI, LH and VS as slam dunks for future growth. Not sure what could be done beyond that though. BNA has been, and will continue to be primarily a domestic airport.

Slam dunks? I don’t think so. What makes you think BNA can support four flights to Europe?

jplatts · Sat Oct 01, 2022 10:50 pm

SimpleMan wrote:
Top International targets
1.) Tokyo

JL is more likely to add BNA-TYO nonstop service than NH is with JL serving TYO nonstop from BOS/SAN/SFO/SEA in addition to ORD/DFW/JFK whereas JFK/SEA are the only non-UA hub airports in the contiguous U.S. that have NH nonstop service to TYO.

JL would also be able to target AA's FF base in Greater Nashville if it adds BNA-TYO nonstop service.

usflyer msp · Sun Oct 02, 2022 7:30 am

jplatts wrote:
SimpleMan wrote:
Top International targets
1.) Tokyo

JL is more likely to add BNA-TYO nonstop service than NH is with JL serving TYO nonstop from BOS/SAN/SFO/SEA in addition to ORD/DFW/JFK whereas JFK/SEA are the only non-UA hub airports in the contiguous U.S. that have NH nonstop service to TYO.

JL would also be able to target AA's FF base in Greater Nashville if it adds BNA-TYO nonstop service.

JAL has some of the highest, if not the highest, operating costs in the world as they are based in a high wage country and have very low density aircraft. This has made them one of the most conservatively managed airlines and highly unlikely to take a chance on something like TYO-BNA unless Nissan and Bridgestone we're guaranteeing like 20 J seats in every departure.

alo2yyz · Tue Oct 04, 2022 3:46 am

SimpleMan wrote:
miguel0881 wrote:
SimpleMan wrote:
That would seem the most logical destinations if one looks at other comparable cities. Sometimes these other cities start off with -
DE (PHX, PDX, MSP)
WK (TPA, SAN, MCO, LAS, DEN)
FL (BWI, BOS, ORD, DEN, SEA, RDU, MCO, PDX, MSP)
EL (MCO, CLE, PHL)

and then migrate up to legacy carriers.

Maybe FL or EI will start seasonal service at some point. Maybe. But I highly doubt it. I think the issue is that even though BNA is a very popular tourist destination in the US and Canada, it’s almost entirely unknown in Europe, beyond some die hard music fans in the UK and Germany. When I mention Nashville in Europe, no one has really heard of it beyond some vague notion of it being the home of country music and not far from where Jack Daniels is produced when you really press them. So certainly not a LAS, SAN, or MCO, which they of course know very well.

Add to that, it doesn’t seem to me that most locals in BNA vacation in or travel to Europe with any regularity (certainly not like you find in Chicago, DC, and other major metro areas). And yes, of course there is ethnic traffic, but that is going beyond any point that BNA would serve directly. And so while I see some of that on the existing BA flight, they’re connecting anyway, and so it doesn’t really matter whether they do so at LHR (or CDG or FRA) or ORD or JFK.

All of that combined does not make BNA a good market for more Europe service. Again, I do think SJO, LIR, SDQ, GCM, AUA, SXM, and maybe even BDA or BGI would be very popular destinations from BNA, and if the service was there, I think they would do well. That should be MNAA’s short term goal I think, not some low cost Europe fights to DUB or KEF.

Thank you for your comment. If BNA is not successful in landing a ULCC to Europe, then let's see what WN does with their recent hire of a Senior Manager Airline Partnerships. Granted, WN had prior partnerships with Volaris and WestJet but those did not pan out and one (1) would think that WN would start out with a (renewed) partnership with a Canadian or Mexican ULCC before going further.

With what Canadian ULCC? Lynx only has a few frames and isn't a year old. F8 is bigger, but still establishing itself and doesn't allow connections (so how would a partnership work...?).

PD isn't a ULCC, doesn't fly west of YQT (for now), and is presumably pretty focused on their own expansion plans. But, of course, WN isn't a ULCC or LCC either.

SimpleMan · Thu Oct 06, 2022 9:16 pm

Recent article in NBJ -
Analysis of airport data identified 1.84 million domestic flights scheduled in the 4th quarter, which was down 15% from the 2.17 million flights completed over the same span in 2019. The analysis included 555 US airports and flight schedules for the current quarter as of October 3. Among the group, 423 airports are scheduled to fall short of 2019's completed flights, while 94 are on track to surpass those totals.
"BNA experienced 33% growth over 2019 and had 261 average daily departures to 97 destinations as of June - the most ever for the airport.
BNA's scheduled flights through the end of this year are up 11% when comparted to 2019.
In Music City, 24,573 flights are scheduled for this quarter, up from 22,032 in 2021 and a significant jump from 2020's 14,827 flights.
https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/n ... ville.html (pay wall)

southwest1675 · Sat Oct 08, 2022 4:04 pm

Anyone know if BNA Express Park will make a return? I enjoyed that service pre COVID. BNA apparently ran out of parking this weekend.

woodfinx · Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:04 pm

southwest1675 wrote:
Anyone know if BNA Express Park will make a return? I enjoyed that service pre COVID. BNA apparently ran out of parking this weekend.

They're currently using the lot for valet, it's almost full

Cubsrule · Sat Oct 08, 2022 10:15 pm

woodfinx wrote:
southwest1675 wrote:
Anyone know if BNA Express Park will make a return? I enjoyed that service pre COVID. BNA apparently ran out of parking this weekend.

They're currently using the lot for valet, it's almost full

I dropped some folks at BNA about 0745 today. Everything was still full. What's the ETA on the "bridge" between Terminal Garage 1 and Terminal Garage 2? That should add 1,000 spaces or so.

Shakinthefat · Sun Oct 09, 2022 7:29 pm

Friday night at BNA Cell phone lot was like a demolition derby. Cars parked illegally, cars nose to nose, people unable to leave lot due to traffic jam.
Guess I shouldn’t bring up how valuable train service from BNA to downtown would be.

SimpleMan · Sun Oct 09, 2022 8:11 pm

Shakinthefat wrote:
Friday night at BNA Cell phone lot was like a demolition derby. Cars parked illegally, cars nose to nose, people unable to leave lot due to traffic jam.
Guess I shouldn’t bring up how valuable train service from BNA to downtown would be.

I just cannot see how they would route the train from BNA to downtown. Would you elevate all the way down Murfreesboro Rd. or take the route over to I-24 via Harding? I would think that the easiest, per say, would be an elevated route on Donelson Pike over to the existing train stop in Donelson.

Cubsrule · Sun Oct 09, 2022 9:10 pm

SimpleMan wrote:
Shakinthefat wrote:
Friday night at BNA Cell phone lot was like a demolition derby. Cars parked illegally, cars nose to nose, people unable to leave lot due to traffic jam.
Guess I shouldn’t bring up how valuable train service from BNA to downtown would be.

I just cannot see how they would route the train from BNA to downtown. Would you elevate all the way down Murfreesboro Rd. or take the route over to I-24 via Harding? I would think that the easiest, per say, would be an elevated route on Donelson Pike over to the existing train stop in Donelson.

The problem is that a train entering downtown on the Music City Star route wouldn't be a very nice experience. Think about hauling a bag from the station to the Westin or the Hermitage. And nobody going to the Four Seasons will take the train (many or most probably won't fly commercial).

SimpleMan · Sun Oct 09, 2022 9:43 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
SimpleMan wrote:
Shakinthefat wrote:
Friday night at BNA Cell phone lot was like a demolition derby. Cars parked illegally, cars nose to nose, people unable to leave lot due to traffic jam.
Guess I shouldn’t bring up how valuable train service from BNA to downtown would be.

I just cannot see how they would route the train from BNA to downtown. Would you elevate all the way down Murfreesboro Rd. or take the route over to I-24 via Harding? I would think that the easiest, per say, would be an elevated route on Donelson Pike over to the existing train stop in Donelson.

The problem is that a train entering downtown on the Music City Star route wouldn't be a very nice experience. Think about hauling a bag from the station to the Westin or the Hermitage. And nobody going to the Four Seasons will take the train (many or most probably won't fly commercial).

Interesting points indeed. Perhaps utilizing the existing Union Station would be a better option. The main issue is the routing from BNA, along with EPA reviews, land acquisitions, cost, etc.

pdt2f · Mon Oct 10, 2022 2:35 am

SimpleMan wrote:
Shakinthefat wrote:
Friday night at BNA Cell phone lot was like a demolition derby. Cars parked illegally, cars nose to nose, people unable to leave lot due to traffic jam.
Guess I shouldn’t bring up how valuable train service from BNA to downtown would be.

I just cannot see how they would route the train from BNA to downtown. Would you elevate all the way down Murfreesboro Rd. or take the route over to I-24 via Harding? I would think that the easiest, per say, would be an elevated route on Donelson Pike over to the existing train stop in Donelson.

There’s only 4 or 5 trains a day that go towards downtown on the Music City Star, with reduced weekend service (if any at all). All of them in the morning, if memory serves me correct. Return trips in the afternoon.

reednavy · Mon Oct 10, 2022 4:48 am

Shakinthefat wrote:
Friday night at BNA Cell phone lot was like a demolition derby. Cars parked illegally, cars nose to nose, people unable to leave lot due to traffic jam.
Guess I shouldn’t bring up how valuable train service from BNA to downtown would be.

That's why last Thursday I just parked in the garage to pick someone up. In/out in less than 20 minutes, and that was with waiting for baggage at 1030pm.

miguel0881 · Mon Oct 10, 2022 10:36 am

Shakinthefat wrote:
Friday night at BNA Cell phone lot was like a demolition derby. Cars parked illegally, cars nose to nose, people unable to leave lot due to traffic jam.
Guess I shouldn’t bring up how valuable train service from BNA to downtown would be.

I was in that cell phone lot briefly this summer and it was nuts on a regular weekday afternoon. The problem is that it’s relatively small, and packed with cars from Kentucky, Alabama, and other parts of TN that have driven long distances to pick up or drop off passengers, and so can’t time it perfectly with a flight arrival/departure time and so end up waiting. That lot needs to be many times bigger based on what I saw.

SimpleMan · Mon Oct 10, 2022 10:50 am

pdt2f wrote:
SimpleMan wrote:
Shakinthefat wrote:
Friday night at BNA Cell phone lot was like a demolition derby. Cars parked illegally, cars nose to nose, people unable to leave lot due to traffic jam.
Guess I shouldn’t bring up how valuable train service from BNA to downtown would be.

I just cannot see how they would route the train from BNA to downtown. Would you elevate all the way down Murfreesboro Rd. or take the route over to I-24 via Harding? I would think that the easiest, per say, would be an elevated route on Donelson Pike over to the existing train stop in Donelson.

There’s only 4 or 5 trains a day that go towards downtown on the Music City Star, with reduced weekend service (if any at all). All of them in the morning, if memory serves me correct. Return trips in the afternoon.

My comment was not necessarily to utilize the existing Music City Star train itself; but the existing tracks with which the Music City Star utilizes, since these are already in place.

bnabnabna · Fri Oct 14, 2022 1:17 am

September passengers numbers out:
https://flynashville.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/092022_TotalPassengers.pdf
1,884,793, which is up 30.6% over September 2021, and up 23.4% over September 2019. This is also a new record for BNA, beating out July. I wonder if we finally pass 2 million in October.

Shakinthefat · Fri Oct 14, 2022 2:16 pm

bnabnabna wrote:
September passengers numbers out:
https://flynashville.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/092022_TotalPassengers.pdf
1,884,793, which is up 30.6% over September 2021, and up 23.4% over September 2019. This is also a new record for BNA, beating out July. I wonder if we finally pass 2 million in October.

After spending 35 min backed up on I40 BNA entrance last night trying to get to airport, I got to think the 2 mil mark will be broken this month.

bnaorthoavgeek · Fri Oct 14, 2022 9:16 pm

Shakinthefat wrote:
bnabnabna wrote:
September passengers numbers out:
https://flynashville.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/092022_TotalPassengers.pdf
1,884,793, which is up 30.6% over September 2021, and up 23.4% over September 2019. This is also a new record for BNA, beating out July. I wonder if we finally pass 2 million in October.

After spending 35 min backed up on I40 BNA entrance last night trying to get to airport, I got to think the 2 mil mark will be broken this month.

My measurement stick is looking at the parking spaces available on the boards… Usually two of the four lots are full only on the weekends, now it’s starting to get full in the middle of the week. Exciting times at BNA. Love the growth. Although The traffic/waiting 30 minutes for the parking lot bus is frustrating… amazing what horrible drivers people become without parking guards.

gsg013 · Tue Oct 18, 2022 6:05 pm

Does anyone understand or want to discuss the NY area to BNA routes?

One thing that often surprises me is with UA they serve EWR-BNA with 5x daily mainline jets (usually a mix of 737-8 737-9 and A319/A320) When you look just across the river at DL and AA, DL is fliyng 5x daily CR-9 (so rougly 45-50% of the capacity of UA) and AA is 2x E-170/E175 with all the talking about upguaging at DL I cannot get the strategy of keeping CRJ on the route,

These flights are almost always full and for a relatively short route ~750 miles pax are often paying top dollar between UA and DL on this route. (i'm not familiar with AA i dont fly them).

To JFK DL is flying 3x daily ( 2x E-175 1x CR-900) AA is flying 2x daily E175) B6 is flying either 1 or 2x daily on the E-190

Mostly I'm interested to understand if DL will put some mainline on the LGA route? it seems strange that to LGA it was historically E-175 and now its dropped down to the CR-900

Shakinthefat · Wed Oct 19, 2022 1:23 am

gsg013 wrote:
Does anyone understand or want to discuss the NY area to BNA routes?

One thing that often surprises me is with UA they serve EWR-BNA with 5x daily mainline jets (usually a mix of 737-8 737-9 and A319/A320) When you look just across the river at DL and AA, DL is fliyng 5x daily CR-9 (so rougly 45-50% of the capacity of UA) and AA is 2x E-170/E175 with all the talking about upguaging at DL I cannot get the strategy of keeping CRJ on the route,

These flights are almost always full and for a relatively short route ~750 miles pax are often paying top dollar between UA and DL on this route. (i'm not familiar with AA i dont fly them).

To JFK DL is flying 3x daily ( 2x E-175 1x CR-900) AA is flying 2x daily E175) B6 is flying either 1 or 2x daily on the E-190

Mostly I'm interested to understand if DL will put some mainline on the LGA route? it seems strange that to LGA it was historically E-175 and now its dropped down to the CR-900

I think DL ran A220 equipment to JFK for a few months

southwest1675 · Wed Oct 19, 2022 1:32 am

gsg013 wrote:
Does anyone understand or want to discuss the NY area to BNA routes?

One thing that often surprises me is with UA they serve EWR-BNA with 5x daily mainline jets (usually a mix of 737-8 737-9 and A319/A320) When you look just across the river at DL and AA, DL is fliyng 5x daily CR-9 (so rougly 45-50% of the capacity of UA) and AA is 2x E-170/E175 with all the talking about upguaging at DL I cannot get the strategy of keeping CRJ on the route,

These flights are almost always full and for a relatively short route ~750 miles pax are often paying top dollar between UA and DL on this route. (i'm not familiar with AA i dont fly them).

To JFK DL is flying 3x daily ( 2x E-175 1x CR-900) AA is flying 2x daily E175) B6 is flying either 1 or 2x daily on the E-190

Mostly I'm interested to understand if DL will put some mainline on the LGA route? it seems strange that to LGA it was historically E-175 and now its dropped down to the CR-900

I know AA kinda plays musical chairs with their BNA-NYC routes. I could have sworn they were running an A319 to LGA at some point recently.

Who is online

Popular Searches On Airliners.net