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SQ22
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Indian Aviation Thread - 2022

Fri Dec 31, 2021 4:54 pm

Welcome to the Indian Aviation Thread Q1 2022. Please continue your discussion and to post your news here.

Link to previous thread:

Indian Aviation Thread - Q4 2021
Last edited by SQ22 on Mon Apr 18, 2022 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Title updated
 
hohd
Posts: 1127
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 1:03 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q1 2022

Sun Jan 02, 2022 9:07 pm

In response to VTORD's comment about 2 weeks ago.....

US carriers have a reputation of poor inflight service on routes to India. I am not surprised that AA ran out of water and did not serve meals.

I recently travelled on UA from ORD to DEL on premium economy (paid a high price for it) and was served cold vegetarian meals. Apparently they did not load hot meals due to some mix up in the catering. Even the Hindi speaking FA was apologetic and urged the passengers to complain using the airline feedback on their website. Apparently according to the FA, not many complain so the airline never improves it much. The IFE was poor too. Dont know why everyone thinks poorly of AI, I travelled on AI on the return and have no complaints, not exceptional service but adequate..
 
portola2727
Posts: 124
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:12 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q1 2022

Sun Jan 02, 2022 11:12 pm

hohd wrote:
In response to VTORD's comment about 2 weeks ago.....

US carriers have a reputation of poor inflight service on routes to India. I am not surprised that AA ran out of water and did not serve meals.

I recently travelled on UA from ORD to DEL on premium economy (paid a high price for it) and was served cold vegetarian meals. Apparently they did not load hot meals due to some mix up in the catering. Even the Hindi speaking FA was apologetic and urged the passengers to complain using the airline feedback on their website. Apparently according to the FA, not many complain so the airline never improves it much. The IFE was poor too. Dont know why everyone thinks poorly of AI, I travelled on AI on the return and have no complaints, not exceptional service but adequate..

I definitely disagree. I flew UA from SFO to DEL in regular Economy class and had hot non veg and veg meals. IFE was also pretty good on my 787-9(N29975) and the flight went very smoothly for me, enough so that I would not hesitate to fly UAL again to India. I'm sorry you had a bad flight but I don't think the overall experience isn't that bad.
 
VTORD
Posts: 849
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:45 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q1 2022

Mon Jan 03, 2022 2:33 am

hohd wrote:
In response to VTORD's comment about 2 weeks ago.....

US carriers have a reputation of poor inflight service on routes to India. I am not surprised that AA ran out of water and did not serve meals.

I recently travelled on UA from ORD to DEL on premium economy (paid a high price for it) and was served cold vegetarian meals. Apparently they did not load hot meals due to some mix up in the catering.


reynan wrote:
I flew JFK-DEL on 12/1 and it was a pleasant flight. The route taken is weird apparently because AA does not have permission to use Russian airspace for this flight but other than that nothing out of ordinary. Flight left slightly late, but reached on time. Service was typical AA - not memorable but professional.




Thanks! Have flown UA from EWR (pre-pandemic) multiple times and never had a bad experience. AI was also as @hohd mentioned "adequate". I was more curious about AA because A) it's a new route for them and B) as I mentioned, the comments were very specific to AA and almost everyone was recommending UA. I wonder if staffing issues are causing them some grief here. I recall reading a article somewhere about AA pilots grumbling that AA is using some creative staffing tactics to get around pilot staffing so wonder if FAs staffing is having some of the same issues.
 
hohd
Posts: 1127
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 1:03 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q1 2022

Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:08 pm

VTORD wrote:
hohd wrote:
In response to VTORD's comment about 2 weeks ago.....

US carriers have a reputation of poor inflight service on routes to India. I am not surprised that AA ran out of water and did not serve meals.

I recently travelled on UA from ORD to DEL on premium economy (paid a high price for it) and was served cold vegetarian meals. Apparently they did not load hot meals due to some mix up in the catering.


reynan wrote:
I flew JFK-DEL on 12/1 and it was a pleasant flight. The route taken is weird apparently because AA does not have permission to use Russian airspace for this flight but other than that nothing out of ordinary. Flight left slightly late, but reached on time. Service was typical AA - not memorable but professional.




Thanks! Have flown UA from EWR (pre-pandemic) multiple times and never had a bad experience. AI was also as @hohd mentioned "adequate". I was more curious about AA because A) it's a new route for them and B) as I mentioned, the comments were very specific to AA and almost everyone was recommending UA. I wonder if staffing issues are causing them some grief here. I recall reading a article somewhere about AA pilots grumbling that AA is using some creative staffing tactics to get around pilot staffing so wonder if FAs staffing is having some of the same issues.


United was recommended since they are flying to India for many years. But all that experience means nothing if they continue to have inflight issues on international flights. AA could be trying to learn the route to India, especially when they cannot overfly Russia, which means longer flight times.

With UA, I flew business class early last year, and may be due to Covid, all I got was tray wrapped in plastic for the 2 meals. The IFE contained one Hindi movie (dubbed from English) and this is in business class from DEL to ORD. Due to my Gold status, I have flown UA on international routes many times and I never had an exceptional service, mostly average.
 
TokyoImperialPa
Posts: 91
Joined: Sun May 23, 2021 1:50 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q1 2022

Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:37 am

Does anyone think it is ludicrous to build airports in every Tier 2 and Tier 3 city as a near-future alternative to improving railway infrastructure?

I think it is better to focus on building large airports in Tier 1 cities for long haul and mid haul flights, which people would only take a few times a year, and instead improve the railways to Tier 2 and Tier 3 cities.

Surely it would not be profitable in the current climate to build airports in Tier 2 and Tier 3 cities and provide the middle income services that would otherwise be provided by the train?
 
RoyalBrunei757
Posts: 889
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:18 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q1 2022

Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:42 am



IndiGo Fleet (as at January 13, 2022):
ATR 72-600:
In fleet: 35
On Order: 15

A320ceo:
In fleet: 27
On Order: 0

A320neo:
In fleet: 140
On Order: 204

A321neo:
In fleet: 52
On Order: 334

Recent Movements January 13, 2022:
1. Airbus A320 -214 4399 HK-5396 Ultra Air at SAW 11 January 2022 in full cs, VT-reg prior delivery ex VT-IDX
2. Airbus A320 -214 4438 HK-5394 Ultra Air at SAW 11 January 2022 in full cs ex VT-IDY
3. Airbus A320 -232 5259 PK-SAM Super Air Jet first in svc 12 January 2022 CGK-SUB ex VT-IFA
4. Airbus A320 -232 5291 PK-SJA Super Air Jet seen regd at SAW 05 January 2022, all white, no titl prior delivery ex VT-IFC
5. Airbus A320 -232 5449 9V-TRV Scoot ferried 12 January 2022 SIN-KUL after storage ex VT-IDG
Data Sources: https://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb. ... av4&page=1, https://www.airbus.com/en/products-serv ... deliveries
 
9w748capt
Posts: 1916
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:27 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q1 2022

Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:42 am

hohd wrote:
In response to VTORD's comment about 2 weeks ago.....

US carriers have a reputation of poor inflight service on routes to India. I am not surprised that AA ran out of water and did not serve meals.

I recently travelled on UA from ORD to DEL on premium economy (paid a high price for it) and was served cold vegetarian meals. Apparently they did not load hot meals due to some mix up in the catering. Even the Hindi speaking FA was apologetic and urged the passengers to complain using the airline feedback on their website. Apparently according to the FA, not many complain so the airline never improves it much. The IFE was poor too. Dont know why everyone thinks poorly of AI, I travelled on AI on the return and have no complaints, not exceptional service but adequate..


Well that definitely would not be the standard, to not serve hot meals on ORD-DEL. Definitely sounds like a mixup. Did you write in to UA and complain? Surely they at least threw some miles at you?

W/r/t AA - not surprised, sadly. I always bring my own water when flying exactly for this reason.

And lastly, what was wrong with the IFE? Did they not have a good selection of Indian films/TV shows? AA doesn't do much right but I've always found their IFE to be pretty solid. I'd be surprised if UA's was that much worse.
 
hohd
Posts: 1127
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q1 2022

Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:29 pm

9w748capt wrote:
hohd wrote:
In response to VTORD's comment about 2 weeks ago.....

US carriers have a reputation of poor inflight service on routes to India. I am not surprised that AA ran out of water and did not serve meals.

I recently travelled on UA from ORD to DEL on premium economy (paid a high price for it) and was served cold vegetarian meals. Apparently they did not load hot meals due to some mix up in the catering. Even the Hindi speaking FA was apologetic and urged the passengers to complain using the airline feedback on their website. Apparently according to the FA, not many complain so the airline never improves it much. The IFE was poor too. Dont know why everyone thinks poorly of AI, I travelled on AI on the return and have no complaints, not exceptional service but adequate..


Well that definitely would not be the standard, to not serve hot meals on ORD-DEL. Definitely sounds like a mixup. Did you write in to UA and complain? Surely they at least threw some miles at you?

W/r/t AA - not surprised, sadly. I always bring my own water when flying exactly for this reason.

And lastly, what was wrong with the IFE? Did they not have a good selection of Indian films/TV shows? AA doesn't do much right but I've always found their IFE to be pretty solid. I'd be surprised if UA's was that much worse.


Yes I complained and they gave me 2500 miles. I am not satisfied though. IFE is ok for English, for Hindi there was about 6 movies, some old, some new. No Hindi TV shows. No comparison to AI, QR, EK, SQ etc.. but on par with LH.
 
142857
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:39 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q1 2022

Tue Jan 18, 2022 7:23 pm

All Air-India non-stop flights from India to USA today seem to be cancelled ... probably due to 5G spectrum rollout issue

Including AI-191 BOM-EWR, AI-101 DEL-JFK, AI-173 DEL-SFO

Not sure about United non-stops though
 
hohd
Posts: 1127
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 1:03 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q1 2022

Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:02 pm

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/natio ... -28-362622

Never ending bubble flight extensions continues. While this supposedly benefits AI, however if they are not enforcing the current bubble rules, it is not going to help AI much (soon to be Tata).
 
Malayil
Posts: 195
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q1 2022

Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:47 pm

hohd wrote:
https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation/dgca-extends-suspension-of-scheduled-international-passenger-flights-till-february-28-362622

Never ending bubble flight extensions continues. While this supposedly benefits AI, however if they are not enforcing the current bubble rules, it is not going to help AI much (soon to be Tata).


At this rate, normal flights won't resume until 2023.
 
User avatar
AirIndia
Posts: 1329
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q1 2022

Fri Jan 21, 2022 6:13 am

Malayil wrote:
hohd wrote:
https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation/dgca-extends-suspension-of-scheduled-international-passenger-flights-till-february-28-362622

Never ending bubble flight extensions continues. While this supposedly benefits AI, however if they are not enforcing the current bubble rules, it is not going to help AI much (soon to be Tata).


At this rate, normal flights won't resume until 2023.

Maybe I am being optimistic, but the bubble might end around the start of Summer 22 season. fingers crossed.
 
pune
Posts: 1482
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:18 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q1 2022

Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:52 pm

TokyoImperialPa wrote:
Does anyone think it is ludicrous to build airports in every Tier 2 and Tier 3 city as a near-future alternative to improving railway infrastructure?

I think it is better to focus on building large airports in Tier 1 cities for long haul and mid haul flights, which people would only take a few times a year, and instead improve the railways to Tier 2 and Tier 3 cities.

Surely it would not be profitable in the current climate to build airports in Tier 2 and Tier 3 cities and provide the middle income services that would otherwise be provided by the train?


After Adani took over many stations, some 10k Railway stations have been given the boot. So, what's gonna happen in those 10k places, first the services will be made less and less and once it is shown that the station is in losses, it will be closed. In other countries, they chose to nationalize, here we chose to privatize.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g63SJwFdGTQ&t=2340s

The whole video is fascinating even though it is of another industry altogether but it does parallel in many ways changes happening across industries.

Coming to the civil aviation topic, from almost all the people big and small, the word is 2023/24 for the bubble. The sad part is that the country still has a high omnicron caseload, till that doesn't come down sufficiently, and no other deadly variaitons start or come to India, we just won't know. And summer is just two months away so we will know within 40 odd days.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 3014
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q1 2022

Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:00 pm

pune wrote:
Coming to the civil aviation topic, from almost all the people big and small, the word is 2023/24 for the bubble. The sad part is that the country still has a high omnicron caseload, till that doesn't come down sufficiently, and no other deadly variations start or come to India, we just won't know. And summer is just two months away so we will know within 40 odd days.


Strange that in India, on Omicron:

a) It sleeps during the day and is a vicious attacker at night (there are night curfews)

b) It only spreads on flights but not on train and busses (the COVID testing requirement is for planes)
 
edealinfo
Posts: 3014
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q1 2022

Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:02 pm

TokyoImperialPa wrote:
Does anyone think it is ludicrous to build airports in every Tier 2 and Tier 3 city as a near-future alternative to improving railway infrastructure?


nope
 
pune
Posts: 1482
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:18 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q1 2022

Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:08 pm

edealinfo wrote:
pune wrote:
Coming to the civil aviation topic, from almost all the people big and small, the word is 2023/24 for the bubble. The sad part is that the country still has a high omnicron caseload, till that doesn't come down sufficiently, and no other deadly variations start or come to India, we just won't know. And summer is just two months away so we will know within 40 odd days.


Strange that in India, on Omicron:

a) It sleeps during the day and is a vicious attacker at night (there are night curfews)

b) It only spreads on flights but not on train and busses (the COVID testing requirement is for planes)


I agree on that hypocrisy on both counts. The fact is if it was not the sudden lockdown announced by Mr. Modi and then over months he realized he was losing popularity over it, lockdown wouldn't have acquired the bad name it did. The only way out is masks and jabs (vaccines) and that is precisely where we are failing. Almost all the manufacturers have given up as the center hasn't placed any new orders. Even if they do today, it would take its own time. For trains and buses, I think it's mostly a staffing question. For trains especially in the last 5-6 years, there has been huge retrenchment and that has resulted in all sorts of issues. For buses, NHAI could have done lot of help, they have both the money and the constitutional authority to do what is needed but sadly they don't care :(
 
hohd
Posts: 1127
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 1:03 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q1 2022

Mon Jan 24, 2022 4:22 pm

pune wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
pune wrote:
Coming to the civil aviation topic, from almost all the people big and small, the word is 2023/24 for the bubble. The sad part is that the country still has a high omnicron caseload, till that doesn't come down sufficiently, and no other deadly variations start or come to India, we just won't know. And summer is just two months away so we will know within 40 odd days.


Strange that in India, on Omicron:

a) It sleeps during the day and is a vicious attacker at night (there are night curfews)

b) It only spreads on flights but not on train and busses (the COVID testing requirement is for planes)


I agree on that hypocrisy on both counts. The fact is if it was not the sudden lockdown announced by Mr. Modi and then over months he realized he was losing popularity over it, lockdown wouldn't have acquired the bad name it did. The only way out is masks and jabs (vaccines) and that is precisely where we are failing. Almost all the manufacturers have given up as the center hasn't placed any new orders. Even if they do today, it would take its own time. For trains and buses, I think it's mostly a staffing question. For trains especially in the last 5-6 years, there has been huge retrenchment and that has resulted in all sorts of issues. For buses, NHAI could have done lot of help, they have both the money and the constitutional authority to do what is needed but sadly they don't care :(


Any one who wants a Covid vaccination can have one. There is no waiting in most places. In fact the local health authorities are going door to door to encourage the remaining who are not vaccinated and a sizable number who have only 1 dose to get the required vaccination. Even for booster there is no line. Masks are widely available everywhere. But if people dont wear it or wear it improperly, then the govt cannot do much. In Mumbai and Delhi they try to enforce mask mandate but in other cities enforcement is spotty.

Supposedly Covid testing covers those coming on trains, buses and private vehicles, but enforcement is very difficult so they concentrate on flights. I know it is does not make sense. Especially sleeping/sitting in a AC train or bus coach for 10+ hours will cause more transmission than a few hours in a plane.
 
pune
Posts: 1482
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:18 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q1 2022

Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:44 pm

hohd wrote:
pune wrote:
edealinfo wrote:

Strange that in India, on Omicron:

a) It sleeps during the day and is a vicious attacker at night (there are night curfews)

b) It only spreads on flights but not on train and busses (the COVID testing requirement is for planes)


I agree on that hypocrisy on both counts. The fact is if it was not the sudden lockdown announced by Mr. Modi and then over months he realized he was losing popularity over it, lockdown wouldn't have acquired the bad name it did. The only way out is masks and jabs (vaccines) and that is precisely where we are failing. Almost all the manufacturers have given up as the center hasn't placed any new orders. Even if they do today, it would take its own time. For trains and buses, I think it's mostly a staffing question. For trains especially in the last 5-6 years, there has been huge retrenchment and that has resulted in all sorts of issues. For buses, NHAI could have done lot of help, they have both the money and the constitutional authority to do what is needed but sadly they don't care :(


Any one who wants a Covid vaccination can have one. There is no waiting in most places. In fact the local health authorities are going door to door to encourage the remaining who are not vaccinated and a sizable number who have only 1 dose to get the required vaccination. Even for booster there is no line. Masks are widely available everywhere. But if people dont wear it or wear it improperly, then the govt cannot do much. In Mumbai and Delhi they try to enforce mask mandate but in other cities enforcement is spotty.

Supposedly Covid testing covers those coming on trains, buses and private vehicles, but enforcement is very difficult so they concentrate on flights. I know it is does not make sense. Especially sleeping/sitting in a AC train or bus coach for 10+ hours will cause more transmission than a few hours in a plane.


I haven't seen even one of the efforts that you say, and as far as Indian Railways are concerned, even for the simplest thing, Indian Railways puts up a circular. I'm not doubting that people who are working in Indian Railways are not attuned to the issues, I'm asking if you know of a circular that tells in detail. I know in Airports how many scams just on vaccination and even RT-PCR certificates have happened, and this is despite Supreme Court order that clearly tells that you cannot charge beyond x amount. And this was after so many petitions that had been raised in the SC for the same.

And your concern both on trains and buses I share with you. To date, I have neither seen such circulars either by Indian Railways or by MSRTC or any other state transport utility (bus). What they have done and are doing is if you are in a car and you are crossing state borders then they will check whether or not you got permission, whether or not you got either RT-PCR or vaccine or whatnot but others they can't, whether it is just due to sheer number of people involved or something else we would never know.
 
SATexan
Posts: 294
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2009 6:49 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q1 2022

Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:01 pm

edealinfo wrote:
b) It only spreads on flights but not on train and busses (the COVID testing requirement is for planes)

I can confirm that a negative RT-PCR test result is required for entering Karnataka by State transport OR private buses from high Covid prevalent states such as Maharashtra and Kerala. The buses are stopped at the State border and the results are verified by officials. Even the state of Maharashtra has many checkpoints for Covid testing verification. This requirement has been in place for a while and the checking happens round-the-clock. I am not sure about the other states. The train stations in India also looked spick-and-span though verification was not done.

The administrative machinery in some parts of India is way more active than in the US. I am quite impressed with their sanitizing efforts. Even private buses are cleaned and sanitized routinely. I have seen nothing like this in the US. Zilch! No checking at airports or state borders. I haven't seen any citywide sanitizing efforts or any sanitizing of public or private mass transport vehicles.
 
RoyalBrunei757
Posts: 889
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:18 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q1 2022

Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:59 am

IndiGo Fleet (as at January 25, 2022):
ATR 72-600:
In fleet: 35
On Order: 15

A320ceo:
In fleet: 25 (-2)
On Order: 0

A320neo:
In fleet: 141 (+1)
On Order: 203

A321neo:
In fleet: 53 (+1)
On Order: 333

Total in Fleet: 254
ATR 72: 35
A320: 166 (24 A320ceo; 141 A320neo)
A321: 53 (all A321neo)


Recent Movements January 25, 2022:
1. Airbus A320 -232 5120 VT-IDL Ferried DEL-RKT-ISL 19 January 2022
2. Airbus A320 -232 4481 VT-IGV Ferried CGK-DEL 15 January 2022, DEL-RKT-IST-OSR 15 January 2022

Also removed A320-214 MSN 4433 VT-IHO, but has not been ferried out.

3. Airbus A320 -251N 10746 VT-IIQ IndiGo Airlines Delivery 21 January 2022 TLS-DEL ex F-WWBZ
4. Airbus A321 -251NX 10718 VT-IMD IndiGo Airlines Delivery 19 January 2022 XFW-DEL ex D-AVXE

Data Sources: https://www.skyliner-aviation.de
 
edealinfo
Posts: 3014
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q1 2022

Tue Jan 25, 2022 2:59 am

pune wrote:
hohd wrote:
pune wrote:
I know in Airports how many scams just on vaccination and even RT-PCR certificates have happened, and this is despite Supreme Court order that clearly tells that you cannot charge beyond x amount. And this was after so many petitions that had been raised in the SC for the same.


So, in India, the Supreme Court determines a COVID test price? Doesn't that fall in the realm of Government policy, or does the court determine policy? Don't they have any other Supreme business to carry out?
 
pune
Posts: 1482
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:18 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q1 2022

Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:51 pm

edealinfo wrote:
pune wrote:
hohd wrote:


So, in India, the Supreme Court determines a COVID test price? Doesn't that fall in the realm of Government policy, or does the court determine policy? Don't they have any other Supreme business to carry out?


It does but when it is left to 'market forces' then SC has to take a stand. Also, you forget health is a state subject, although the Govt. has been meddling in this as well from day 1. And when petitioners do go to SC, one day or the other they would have to hear them. And Delhi for e.g. is an administrative nightmare so there more often than not it is either the High Courts or the SC that has to come out to help. I remember all political parties including BJP at different points in time saying Delhi should be governed by Delhi State Govt. but that is only when they were in power, not when outside. So you will see these kinds of judgments. And if SC doesn't talk about this, then what is its use. The job of SC is actually to solve constitutional issues but it has been unable to take any of them up otherwise in each the Central Govt. will be on backfoot.
 
freqflyer
Posts: 116
Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 12:34 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q1 2022

Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:47 pm

Air India is finally privatised. The Govt nominees on the board including the CMD have resigned. Talace Pvt Ltd is the holding company for Air India.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 153880.cms

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 157359.cms
 
hohd
Posts: 1127
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 1:03 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q1 2022

Sun Feb 06, 2022 1:32 am

https://www.newsncr.com/national/how-an ... employees/

Spice jet in bigger trouble, they are not paying salaries and PF regularly and not paying taxes to GoI.

Sounds familiar....first Kingfisher did this, then Jet and now SpiceJet. Somehow this time I dont think this airline can get out of trouble unlike the previous few times. Unless GoI or some bank or some private investor steps in, this airline is unlikely to survive.
 
Anil2000
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2022 10:57 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q1 2022

Mon Feb 07, 2022 2:50 pm

now Ajay Sing
wants ATF under GST
SpiceJet is in clear problems
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/bus ... 396049.cms
 
pune
Posts: 1482
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:18 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q1 2022

Sat Feb 12, 2022 2:10 pm

Spicejet has been having problems from before the pandemic. Even their staff used to be arrogant and rude. I don't know what the situation today is. I fear @hohd may be right. Although for the record, Jet was far superior in the way it treated its guests. I really wish Jet returns to serve in the beautiful way it did one day :)
 
airboss787
Posts: 388
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:39 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q1 2022

Sat Feb 12, 2022 3:40 pm

Anil2000 wrote:
now Ajay Sing
wants ATF under GST
SpiceJet is in clear problems
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/bus ... 396049.cms


To be fair to Ajay Singh, he has been a vocal proponent of ATF under GST for a while now.
 
pune
Posts: 1482
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:18 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q1 2022

Sun Feb 13, 2022 2:08 pm

airboss787 wrote:
Anil2000 wrote:
now Ajay Sing
wants ATF under GST
SpiceJet is in clear problems
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/bus ... 396049.cms


To be fair to Ajay Singh, he has been a vocal proponent of ATF under GST for a while now.


Not just Ajay Singh but I remember Indigo asking the same thing almost what 5 years back, sometime during '17 - '18 when GST was newly introduced but they were promptly shut down. It is a valid request but our FM wants more and more revenue, let people go to hell.

Statement on GST by the Honorable Gujarat High Court -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iY-_SVej8aI

And these are not any on or off-the-cuff statements. The judges had taken something like 2-3 weeks to study the issues. The petitioner had put issues about it. GST was also in the news for wrong reasons just a couple of days back.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cit ... 467222.cms

Almost 11k small businessmen have committed suicide due to bankruptcy arising out of changing GST policies in the last year alone, according to NCRB reports.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 24210
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q1 2022

Sun Feb 13, 2022 2:20 pm

hohd wrote:
https://www.newsncr.com/national/how-and-why-spicejet-got-stuck-in-trouble-the-company-did-not-even-have-money-left-for-the-pf-of-the-employees/

Spice jet in bigger trouble, they are not paying salaries and PF regularly and not paying taxes to GoI.

Sounds familiar....first Kingfisher did this, then Jet and now SpiceJet. Somehow this time I dont think this airline can get out of trouble unlike the previous few times. Unless GoI or some bank or some private investor steps in, this airline is unlikely to survive.

From the above link:
SpiceJet has defaulted a total of Rs 90 crore on tax, GST payment and PF dues of employees in FY 2021.

Oops... Its worth reading that link, being in default for one and a half years is bad...

As already noted, SpiceJet has had issues for years.

What is it with Indian airlines being allowed to operate after not paying employees? That is a huge no-no in the USA. Companies scramble to pay salaries on time in the USA for failure to do so is immediate insolvency. Not paying for labor worked is so wrong... Is SpiceJet current on salaries? I know this link is May 2021, but I have trouble believing they are defaulting on taxes and vendors yet somehow are current on salaries...
https://www.livemint.com/companies/news ... 65823.html

Lightsaber
 
manny
Posts: 590
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 8:59 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q1 2022

Sun Feb 13, 2022 5:22 pm

I think i mentioned this somewhere, but flew ORD-DEL flight in business and the soft product was at best very poor. The food and beverage offerings, the service, the crew, all made for a subpar experience. Also the business cabin on the 787-9's used on the route have the the old business product. For what you pay, you definitely do not get the experience that one gets on other airlines.

With C-19 most people want to fly nonstop flights between US and India to avoid having to deal with the C19 variables of a 3rd country. I think AI's product is much better right now and hopefully with Tata's taking over it will vastly improve. Can't wait to have better option to fly to India in the near future.
 
airboss787
Posts: 388
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:39 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q1 2022

Sun Feb 13, 2022 8:26 pm

manny wrote:
I think i mentioned this somewhere, but flew ORD-DEL flight in business and the soft product was at best very poor. The food and beverage offerings, the service, the crew, all made for a subpar experience. Also the business cabin on the 787-9's used on the route have the the old business product. For what you pay, you definitely do not get the experience that one gets on other airlines.

With C-19 most people want to fly nonstop flights between US and India to avoid having to deal with the C19 variables of a 3rd country. I think AI's product is much better right now and hopefully with Tata's taking over it will vastly improve. Can't wait to have better option to fly to India in the near future.


You were probably on the older configuration 787, and once those get upgraded to the new product in the next few months, it should be fine. The new seats are really good and comfortable. Light years ahead of the current Air India seats.
 
manny
Posts: 590
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 8:59 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q1 2022

Mon Feb 14, 2022 4:04 am

airboss787 wrote:
manny wrote:
I think i mentioned this somewhere, but flew ORD-DEL flight in business and the soft product was at best very poor. The food and beverage offerings, the service, the crew, all made for a subpar experience. Also the business cabin on the 787-9's used on the route have the the old business product. For what you pay, you definitely do not get the experience that one gets on other airlines.

With C-19 most people want to fly nonstop flights between US and India to avoid having to deal with the C19 variables of a 3rd country. I think AI's product is much better right now and hopefully with Tata's taking over it will vastly improve. Can't wait to have better option to fly to India in the near future.


You were probably on the older configuration 787, and once those get upgraded to the new product in the next few months, it should be fine. The new seats are really good and comfortable. Light years ahead of the current Air India seats.


I mentioned they had the old business product. They can fox the seat but you still are left with the shitty service and subpar soft product.

Just hoping Tata's fix Air India to a point where you can book with them from US cities where they do not have an originating flight.
 
hohd
Posts: 1127
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q1 2022

Mon Feb 21, 2022 2:26 pm

manny wrote:
airboss787 wrote:
manny wrote:
I

Just hoping Tata's fix Air India to a point where you can book with them from US cities where they do not have an originating flight.


Yes I have repeatedly tried to book from other cities where AI does not operate (IAH or DFW), but AI has no pricing/ticketing agreement with UA for flights in US (UA is notoriously difficult to work with) and also with AA (now AA is flying to DEL, it sees AI as a competitor).

Last time bought separate tickets and surprisingly it was lot cheaper than UA pricing. But not many would do this as neither airline will be responsible for a missed connection due to delays. AI has some sort of an agreement with JetBlue from JFK but it serves limited cities.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q1 2022

Mon Feb 21, 2022 4:12 pm

manny wrote:
I think i mentioned this somewhere, but flew ORD-DEL flight in business and the soft product was at best very poor..


So, were you travelling or Aeroflot or North Korean Air? You never mentioned so I am guessing you expect the reader to guess.
 
manny
Posts: 590
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 8:59 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q1 2022

Tue Feb 22, 2022 6:51 am

edealinfo wrote:
manny wrote:
I think i mentioned this somewhere, but flew ORD-DEL flight in business and the soft product was at best very poor..


So, were you travelling or Aeroflot or North Korean Air? You never mentioned so I am guessing you expect the reader to guess.


United Airlines.
 
sshank
Posts: 299
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2004 2:58 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q1 2022

Tue Feb 22, 2022 8:23 pm

hohd wrote:
In response to VTORD's comment about 2 weeks ago.....

US carriers have a reputation of poor inflight service on routes to India. I am not surprised that AA ran out of water and did not serve meals.

I recently travelled on UA from ORD to DEL on premium economy (paid a high price for it) and was served cold vegetarian meals. Apparently they did not load hot meals due to some mix up in the catering. Even the Hindi speaking FA was apologetic and urged the passengers to complain using the airline feedback on their website. Apparently according to the FA, not many complain so the airline never improves it much. The IFE was poor too. Dont know why everyone thinks poorly of AI, I travelled on AI on the return and have no complaints, not exceptional service but adequate..


Oh please. I have flown both options and there is no comparison - AI is simply the last choice you make if you have no other option. UA has been selling out the front cabin routinely, hard product on Business and PE are excellent (no experience with Y). Food has never been a US carriers strong suit, that said catering especially ex-India is adequate. UA's IFE is just fine, it does not have a ton of Bollywood garbage like say EK, but still has plenty of good content.
 
hohd
Posts: 1127
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q1 2022

Tue Feb 22, 2022 8:38 pm

sshank wrote:
hohd wrote:
In response to VTORD's comment about 2 weeks ago.....

US carriers have a reputation of poor inflight service on routes to India. I am not surprised that AA ran out of water and did not serve meals.

I recently travelled on UA from ORD to DEL on premium economy (paid a high price for it) and was served cold vegetarian meals. Apparently they did not load hot meals due to some mix up in the catering. Even the Hindi speaking FA was apologetic and urged the passengers to complain using the airline feedback on their website. Apparently according to the FA, not many complain so the airline never improves it much. The IFE was poor too. Dont know why everyone thinks poorly of AI, I travelled on AI on the return and have no complaints, not exceptional service but adequate..


Oh please. I have flown both options and there is no comparison - AI is simply the last choice you make if you have no other option. UA has been selling out the front cabin routinely, hard product on Business and PE are excellent (no experience with Y). Food has never been a US carriers strong suit, that said catering especially ex-India is adequate. UA's IFE is just fine, it does not have a ton of Bollywood garbage like say EK, but still has plenty of good content.


And I have flown both options and found AI to be superior to UA and I am not saying AI is great, it is average But UA falls short of even AI. For you Bollywood may be garbage but for fast majority of travelers to India, Bollywood is what they want. EK, QR, AI also have regional movie options which makes the IFE even better. Last time I went on UA on PE, I found it woefully lacking. Food was mediocre, very few selection of Hindi movies. Even the Hindi speaking FA was asking us to complain about the food. I only take UA because it is normally the least expensive AI always prices out higher.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q1 2022

Wed Feb 23, 2022 2:30 am

hohd wrote:
sshank wrote:
hohd wrote:
In response to VTORD's comment about 2 weeks ago.....

US carriers have a reputation of poor inflight service on routes to India. I am not surprised that AA ran out of water and did not serve meals.

I recently travelled on UA from ORD to DEL on premium economy (paid a high price for it) and was served cold vegetarian meals. Apparently they did not load hot meals due to some mix up in the catering. Even the Hindi speaking FA was apologetic and urged the passengers to complain using the airline feedback on their website. Apparently according to the FA, not many complain so the airline never improves it much. The IFE was poor too. Dont know why everyone thinks poorly of AI, I travelled on AI on the return and have no complaints, not exceptional service but adequate..


Oh please. I have flown both options and there is no comparison - AI is simply the last choice you make if you have no other option. UA has been selling out the front cabin routinely, hard product on Business and PE are excellent (no experience with Y). Food has never been a US carriers strong suit, that said catering especially ex-India is adequate. UA's IFE is just fine, it does not have a ton of Bollywood garbage like say EK, but still has plenty of good content.


And I have flown both options and found AI to be superior to UA and I am not saying AI is great, it is average But UA falls short of even AI. For you Bollywood may be garbage but for fast majority of travelers to India, Bollywood is what they want. EK, QR, AI also have regional movie options which makes the IFE even better. Last time I went on UA on PE, I found it woefully lacking. Food was mediocre, very few selection of Hindi movies. Even the Hindi speaking FA was asking us to complain about the food. I only take UA because it is normally the least expensive AI always prices out higher.


Maybe you should consider 1-stop options which will even give you a chance to stretch your legs. Both Lufthansa and British Airways have great seats in business class and good (BA) to excellent (LH) meals. Don't expect the flight attendants to be all over you - they won't. They will be aloof but efficient.
 
manny
Posts: 590
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 8:59 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q1 2022

Wed Feb 23, 2022 2:45 am

edealinfo wrote:
hohd wrote:
sshank wrote:

Oh please. I have flown both options and there is no comparison - AI is simply the last choice you make if you have no other option. UA has been selling out the front cabin routinely, hard product on Business and PE are excellent (no experience with Y). Food has never been a US carriers strong suit, that said catering especially ex-India is adequate. UA's IFE is just fine, it does not have a ton of Bollywood garbage like say EK, but still has plenty of good content.


And I have flown both options and found AI to be superior to UA and I am not saying AI is great, it is average But UA falls short of even AI. For you Bollywood may be garbage but for fast majority of travelers to India, Bollywood is what they want. EK, QR, AI also have regional movie options which makes the IFE even better. Last time I went on UA on PE, I found it woefully lacking. Food was mediocre, very few selection of Hindi movies. Even the Hindi speaking FA was asking us to complain about the food. I only take UA because it is normally the least expensive AI always prices out higher.


Maybe you should consider 1-stop options which will even give you a chance to stretch your legs. Both Lufthansa and British Airways have great seats in business class and good (BA) to excellent (LH) meals. Don't expect the flight attendants to be all over you - they won't. They will be aloof but efficient.


From what i am hearing Lufthansa business has really gone south in their offerings. So at this point its best to avoid.

Plus nonstops are more preferred as it takes away all the C19 travel related variables of a 3rd country. That is why despite being very ordinary UA still fills up the front of the aircraft. Would love to see where Tata takes Air India offerings to in the next 6 to 12 months. If they can be what is expected of them, people could easily avoid United in the coming years.
 
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BawliBooch
Posts: 1710
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q1 2022

Wed Feb 23, 2022 2:47 am

pune wrote:
airboss787 wrote:
Anil2000 wrote:
now Ajay Sing
wants ATF under GST
SpiceJet is in clear problems
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/bus ... 396049.cms


To be fair to Ajay Singh, he has been a vocal proponent of ATF under GST for a while now.


Not just Ajay Singh but I remember Indigo asking the same thing almost what 5 years back, sometime during '17 - '18 when GST was newly introduced but they were promptly shut down. It is a valid request but our FM wants more and more revenue, let people go to hell.


Remember all the excuses Vijay Mallya made while Kingfisher was floundering? Ajay Singh's rants are in the same category! Singh talks of GST as some kind of magic potion that will revive the airline? All it does is reduce the direct tax payments going to individual states and divert it to Central Coffers. Not happening any time soon! Moving fuel to a GST regime also allows for more creative accounting that will allow them to show some profits even now! If I am not mistaken, Ajay Singh owes GST dues as well! But he can get away with it at the Central level!
 
killswitch13
Posts: 100
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:52 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q1 2022

Tue Mar 01, 2022 9:31 am

Ilker Ayci turns down MD & CEO role by Air India
https://indianexpress.com/article/busin ... e-7795741/
 
binayak
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q1 2022

Fri Mar 04, 2022 2:28 pm

Sanjiv Kapoor will be the CEO of Jet Airways 2.0 effective April 4 .
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/bus ... 986589.cms

Well, some like him , some hate him but everyone will agree that his contributions to the top notch service quality in Vistara is commendable and is required for Jet 2.0 which will start almost like a new airline.
 
airboss787
Posts: 388
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q1 2022

Fri Mar 04, 2022 3:41 pm

binayak wrote:
Sanjiv Kapoor will be the CEO of Jet Airways 2.0 effective April 4 .
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/bus ... 986589.cms

Well, some like him , some hate him but everyone will agree that his contributions to the top notch service quality in Vistara is commendable and is required for Jet 2.0 which will start almost like a new airline.


His contributions are pretty good I think. But I did not know he was 'hated'. Could you elaborate who hates him and why?
 
binayak
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q1 2022

Sat Mar 05, 2022 6:58 am

airboss787 wrote:
binayak wrote:
Sanjiv Kapoor will be the CEO of Jet Airways 2.0 effective April 4 .
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/bus ... 986589.cms

Well, some like him , some hate him but everyone will agree that his contributions to the top notch service quality in Vistara is commendable and is required for Jet 2.0 which will start almost like a new airline.


His contributions are pretty good I think. But I did not know he was 'hated'. Could you elaborate who hates him and why?


Sorry , maybe I went too extreme. To put that in a better way, he was not liked by few.
Well during Sanjeev Kapoor's time at Vistara, a famous aviation blogger posted a critical review of his experience with the airline and as a result of which the former , instead of contacting the latter, simply unfollowed him on twitter. This caused the blogger to describe Kapoor's actions as that of a teenager in his youtube video. Subsequently, a lot of people on twitter started disliking Kapoor while on the other hand, many aviation enthusiasts continued to take his side.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q1 2022

Mon Mar 07, 2022 2:11 am

manny wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
hohd wrote:
Plus nonstops are more preferred as it takes away all the C19 travel related variables of a 3rd country. .


Which world are you in? BA and LH (and I'm quite sure Air France and KLM) have no C19 restrictions when in transit. When you get your boarding pass you just have to demonstrate you meet the C19 requirement of the destination country. So the C19 variable you mention is no longer valid.
 
manny
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Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 8:59 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q1 2022

Mon Mar 07, 2022 6:43 pm

edealinfo wrote:
manny wrote:
edealinfo wrote:


Which world are you in? BA and LH (and I'm quite sure Air France and KLM) have no C19 restrictions when in transit. When you get your boarding pass you just have to demonstrate you meet the C19 requirement of the destination country. So the C19 variable you mention is no longer valid.


There was a brief period you had to quarantine in India if you came from the UK. That was a tit for tat move by the Indian Govt.

I am sure most people can grasp the fact, that even if today there are no restrictions, things can change, in any country, on a dime. So they day you travel you may have to deal with an additional set of variables.
 
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BawliBooch
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q1 2022

Tue Mar 08, 2022 12:43 am

hohd wrote:
Dont know why everyone thinks poorly of AI, I travelled on AI on the return and have no complaints, not exceptional service but adequate..


I will give you one reason why people think poorly of AI - Dirty, unhygienic interiors! I prefer the meals and service on Indian carriers, but atleast the UA/AA/AC planes are kept clean. Not Sheldon Cooper clean, but clean! Not entirely the airlines fault. I was on Vistara's barely 2 year old 787 some months back and their Premium Economy cabin was filthier than Latrice Royale's colon after dinner! Even Jet Airways 777s and KingFisher A330s got filthy within 2 years for some reason! I wonder why that is?

UA/AA do an ok job with the meals too! My last 3/4 flights with them to India, they ran out of Meat options since some genius in United planning believes India is 100% vegetarian! Fortunately I always select the meat option while booking which also ensures that I get served first!

9w748capt wrote:

Well that definitely would not be the standard, to not serve hot meals on ORD-DEL. Definitely sounds like a mixup. Did you write in to UA and complain? Surely they at least threw some miles at you?

Could it be COVID related snafu? On our last Vistara CDG-DEL flight, we got a ice cold bread roll kinda thingie for a meal! No coffee/Tea round either.

binayak wrote:
Sanjiv Kapoor will be the CEO of Jet Airways 2.0 effective April 4 .
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/bus ... 986589.cms

Well, some like him , some hate him but everyone will agree that his contributions to the top notch service quality in Vistara is commendable and is required for Jet 2.0 which will start almost like a new airline.


Oh! I don't think anyone hates our "Gareeban da Sanju Baba"! :lol: Except perhaps some aviation bloggers who didn't get the free tickets to Dubai/Singapore in return for pushing SpiceJet/Vistara/(Airline Sanju works in) story and running hatchet jobs against competing airlines on forums like these!

Speaking of AvBloggers, how is the aviation scene in Bangalore these days? ;)
 
edealinfo
Posts: 3014
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q1 2022

Tue Mar 08, 2022 1:38 am

BawliBooch wrote:
hohd wrote:
Dont know why everyone thinks poorly of AI, I travelled on AI on the return and have no complaints, not exceptional service but adequate..


On our last Vistara CDG-DEL flight, we got a ice cold bread roll kinda thingie for a meal! No coffee/Tea round either.
)


1. How was your Vistara trip?

2. I travelled on Air India domestic "executive class". The cloth seats "looked" soiled/dirty that really put me off as I didn't feel "executive". I wonder if the economy seat was cleaner.
 
Gremlinzzzz
Posts: 471
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:28 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q1 2022

Tue Mar 08, 2022 5:56 am

TokyoImperialPa wrote:
Does anyone think it is ludicrous to build airports in every Tier 2 and Tier 3 city as a near-future alternative to improving railway infrastructure?

I think it is better to focus on building large airports in Tier 1 cities for long haul and mid haul flights, which people would only take a few times a year, and instead improve the railways to Tier 2 and Tier 3 cities.

Surely it would not be profitable in the current climate to build airports in Tier 2 and Tier 3 cities and provide the middle income services that would otherwise be provided by the train?

Commuter rail is by large, not profitable.

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